2014 Lightning Lap: SRT Viper TA

[VRYALT3R3D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2NiOeoHZ1I

[XSnake]

I've never run that configuration but he completely missed Oak Tree

[FLATOUT]

Wow, although fast he was all over the place lol.

[Shooter]

Ouch

[FLATOUT]

Wonder how much time that cost him on the lap. Just read Aaron's bio and he's the Technical Editor for Car & Driver with a liberal arts degree from Michigan. Strange they wouldn't put a pro driver in these cars, instead of a guy that is into slow old vintage cars.

[Timnineside]

Made me sick watching that.

[Nemesis]

Jesus christ. Yanking on the wheel like it was pippie Longstocking giving him a handlebar job.

[Nine Ball]

Either this guy wasn't familiar with the track, or he isn't used to driving anything with real power. Not smooth at all, didn't seem to know which gear to be in on a lot of the turns. I rarely use 2nd gear in my car, except on hairpin turns. He grabbed 2nd too often, because he dropped speed too much.

[Jack B]

That vid really casts doubt on legitimacy of the entire outcome. It looked like he was schooled on a mazda.

[viperdan]

Geez how many times did he lug the motor and up shift unnecessarily? Easily two seconds left on the table IMO.

[Nine Ball]

Geez how many times did he lug the motor and up shift unnecessarily? Easily two seconds left on the table IMO.

He looked scared of the car. About 1 min into the vid, he shifts to 5th way too early and then proceeds to do that entire back straight lugging in 5th gear, then even tries to take the last actual corner while still in 5th. It was like he forgot he was driving a manual.

To further illustrate, he couldn't even handle the BMW 235i on this track. Nearly loses it, turns the windshield wipers on by accident, and pushes several corners. LOL


http://youtu.be/ZSbjTxQkXzU?list=UUOqhTsqySBCBTy571GArcXg

[SSGNRDZ_28]

That vid really casts doubt on legitimacy of the entire outcome.

Agreed, the results can't be consistent even if he drove all of the cars.

[Canadian venom]

At least the Viper is on the podium lol , 3rd place behind the 918 and the GTR

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031738

[viperdan]

He looked scared of the car. About 1 min into the vid, he shifts to 5th way too early and then proceeds to do that entire back straight lugging in 5th gear, then even tries to take the last actual corner while still in 5th. It was like he forgot he was driving a manual.

To further illustrate, he couldn't even handle the BMW 235i on this track. Nearly loses it, turns the windshield wipers on by accident, and pushes several corners. LOL


http://youtu.be/ZSbjTxQkXzU?list=UUOqhTsqySBCBTy571GArcXg

Exactly! A pro would have gotten another 4 seconds out of that car IMO. He looks like he is trying to rip the steering wheel out of the car...lol.

[Nine Ball]

The GT-R and the Z/28 were both driven by another editor, who looks MUCH smoother and seems to be a better driver. Hence, both cars did very well on the test.

Driver: Tony Quiroga

GT-R makes it look easy.


http://youtu.be/Np_3kBHdr7o

Z/28 looks like a lot of fun. Good driving.


http://youtu.be/3bATLplHexI?list=UUOqhTsqySBCBTy571GArcXg

[Snakebit10]

If I didnt see the lap timer countdown in the bottome right of the video I would not expect this to be the 2:49 lap time. If he drove this badly and still did a 2:49 then WOW.

[Dman]

Wow, as bad as I consider C&D to be, that surprises me. Why would even a rag mag conduct a test so poorly. I'm never critical of other folks on a track (unless they do something stupid around me), but this is a 'professional' analysis of these cars and if I know I could do better, that's crazy.

Are we sure he's not blind folded and getting directions transmitted to him thru an ear piece??

That bimmer test is embarrassing.

- - - Updated - - -

It's a real testament to the TA that it turned that lap time with that level "driving".

[ACRucrazy]

Maybe he put down the best time. I won't get upset about it. Just a magazine.

[FLATOUT]

Maybe he put down the best time. I won't get upset about it. Just a magazine.

Haha says the guy who owns an ACR which won it last time around lol. It didn't make sense to me early on, that with the TA being faster at Laguna than the ACR, and that VIR is now supposed to be faster than it was by 3 seconds a lap (what MTGTS said) that it would end up finishing 3 seconds off the old ACR time.

It makes sense now why the TA finished slower than the old ACR time even though the TA was tested on a faster track. Had they never posted those video's we never would have known how funky that lap was.

Anyone have the 2010 ACR lap we can watch?

[rw99]

Jeez, why not pull Pobst in for this feature? He's on the MT speed dial, I'm sure.

The real point would be to pull apart the two factors: what the car CAN do, and what your average Joe behind its wheel can do. Both are interesting topics to me, and the laptime differences between Pro and Joe would offer new perspective on each car. We'd expect a big delta on the Viper TA, and less of a difference on the GTR. Where would the Z/28 land on this scale?

The vids are really disappointing to me, because I just hate bad data.

[FLATOUT]

I think the Tire on the Camaro helped the Joe more in this case than the Corsa on the TA. But I also agree about what can the average guy do in these cars in a lap scenario. But I would still love to watch the ACR lap and see who was driving the car then.

[ACRucrazy]

Haha says the guy who owns an ACR which won it last time around lol. It didn't make sense to me early on, that with the TA being faster at Laguna than the ACR, and that VIR is now supposed to be faster than it was by 3 seconds a lap (what MTGTS said) that it would end up finishing 3 seconds off the old ACR time.

It makes sense now why the TA finished slower than the old ACR time even though the TA was tested on a faster track. Had they never posted those video's we never would have known how funky that lap was.

Anyone have the 2010 ACR lap we can watch?

Eh, I couldn't tell you what it did last time around nor do I care much about what it did this time around. It's just a magazine. What they write about the car doesn't change what the car is. And it's awesome. :)

[FLATOUT]

Eh, I couldn't tell you what it did last time around nor do I care much about what it did this time around. It's just a magazine. What they write about the car doesn't change what the car is. And it's awesome. :)

I was half kidding, but was more hoping to see the TA squarly between the GTR and the 918's time.

[Creatre]

After watching that bmw clip, I'm surprised he didn't kill himself in the Viper. What a horrible driver, can't believe he's paid to do that!!

[LonghornTX]

The C&D driver for the Viper definitely looks like he is new to high HP RWD cars...I was suprised that the Z/28, for example, was so close to the TA when in other tests the TA is shown to be significantly faster. Take for example the R&T article (Z/28 vs. The World), or the difference in times that Pobst put down at Laguna for Z/28 and TA. Granted, different days, but it was like 4 seconds...

[Nine Ball]

Jeez, why not pull Pobst in for this feature? He's on the MT speed dial, I'm sure.

The real point would be to pull apart the two factors: what the car CAN do, and what your average Joe behind its wheel can do. Both are interesting topics to me, and the laptime differences between Pro and Joe would offer new perspective on each car. We'd expect a big delta on the Viper TA, and less of a difference on the GTR. Where would the Z/28 land on this scale?

The vids are really disappointing to me, because I just hate bad data.

Great suggestion. I would dig reading a pro vs joe driving test of the 5 top track cars in this test. Joe not necessarily meaning no skill, but maybe an average driver that tracks less than 5-6 weekends per year. This guy we are talking about in these vids, is worse, lol.

[rw99]

Great suggestion. I would dig reading a pro vs joe driving test of the 5 top track cars in this test. Joe not necessarily meaning no skill, but maybe an average driver that tracks less than 5-6 weekends per year. This guy we are talking about in these vids, is worse, lol.

If I were the editor, I'd have 3-5 "Joe" drivers (casual track guys, as you say) generate lap times for the interesting cars. The averages and standard deviations on their times (not just their best laps) would really serve to inform the readership about how typical enthusiast drivers perceive their limit in each car.

Gotta test 'em all the same way, though, so that tire/brake wear is less of a confounding factor...

But these are writers, not scientists, and I can tell that generating quality data in a well-controlled experiment is honestly not the point of this feature.

[640bhpV10]

Yikes, guess none of us live in glass houses.

I think they only get about 10 laps in each car for the entire event and at least he was pushing the car. There was A LOT of power oversteer on exit and excessive understeer on entry, he just didn't know the car well enough. But I don't think anyone would know it well enough after ~10 laps. I'm just glad that he didn't sandbag excessively to make it look calm but leave like 5 sec on the table. I bet a pro could shave a lot of time, but for an amateur he gave it great effort and got a good time.

The Z28 looks a lot calmer, but it has stickier tires, 500 lbs more curb weight, and ~135 fewer horses. It's just not as violent.

I think that the Viper was definitely the hardest car to drive fast of the group and by a long way. Noble effort under the circumstances.

-Nick

[Shooter]

Great suggestion. I would dig reading a pro vs joe driving test of the 5 top track cars in this test. Joe not necessarily meaning no skill, but maybe an average driver that tracks less than 5-6 weekends per year. This guy we are talking about in these vids, is worse, lol.

I like that idea too. Could make for some interesting data.

[FLATOUT]

I agree with you, and I fit into that casual "joe" track guy on the road course I get out a few times a year and love it. What bothers me though about these test is that they do shape a lot of opinions and influence sales numbers for the cars that are featured. The perfect test would involve a pro drivers fastest lap and the average guys fastest lap in each car. That way I would be able to see what a platform is capable of with some practice.

I want to know what a car is capable of. I loved that Dodge took Kuno out in the 2010 ACR and set records all over the country it set great benchmarks for ameteurs to go out and try to match.



Yikes, guess none of us live in glass houses.

I think they only get about 10 laps in each car for the entire event and at least he was pushing the car. There was A LOT of power oversteer on exit and excessive understeer on entry, he just didn't know the car well enough. But I don't think anyone would know it well enough after ~10 laps. I'm just glad that he didn't sandbag excessively to make it look calm but leave like 5 sec on the table. I bet a pro could shave a lot of time, but for an amateur he gave it great effort and got a good time.

The Z28 looks a lot calmer, but it has stickier tires, 500 lbs more curb weight, and ~135 fewer horses. It's just not as violent.

I think that the Viper was definitely the hardest car to drive fast of the group and by a long way. Noble effort under the circumstances.

-Nick

[Shooter]

I want to know what a car is capable of. I loved that Dodge took Kuno out in the 2010 ACR and set records all over the country it set great benchmarks for ameteurs to go out and try to match.

Yep. I was at TWS when Kuno took a stock ACR around faster then some of the Comp Coupe's. Just blew me away how fast the car was in pro hands. Real pro too, not some scaredy-cat that drive's an AWD Volvo.

[Nine Ball]

Yikes, guess none of us live in glass houses.

I think they only get about 10 laps in each car for the entire event and at least he was pushing the car. There was A LOT of power oversteer on exit and excessive understeer on entry, he just didn't know the car well enough. But I don't think anyone would know it well enough after ~10 laps. I'm just glad that he didn't sandbag excessively to make it look calm but leave like 5 sec on the table. I bet a pro could shave a lot of time, but for an amateur he gave it great effort and got a good time.

Where did you read they only got 10 laps? I would argue that 10 lap (20-30 minutes of lapping) IS enough to adjust to a car, unless you also had to learn the track at the same time. If you know the track (presumably from doing 10+ laps in the other dozen cars too) then it shouldn't be a problem. I took my 2013 Viper to the track for the first time, on a track I'd never run before, and I was putting down good lap times in the second 20 min session. And I don't track that often.




The Z28 looks a lot calmer, but it has stickier tires, 500 lbs more curb weight, and ~135 fewer horses. It's just not as violent.

That video is of a different driver. The driver in the Camaro seems smoother, more talented. Did you watch the BMW video I posted above? That was the same guy (Aaron) that was driving the Viper. Neither car showed any skill behind the wheel. Go watch the BMW video and tell me that this guy is a good driver, just challenged by the Viper. He was challenged by the BMW! The M235i only has 320hp.



I think that the Viper was definitely the hardest car to drive fast of the group and by a long way. Noble effort under the circumstances.

Agreed. That is why many of us enjoy driving them. They challenge our skill level, and reward you when things are done well. And they bite when things aren't.

[TIME]

Preaching to the quire here, i know. I have just completed the Viper Experience at the Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Had to to look at the video where my instructor "showed me the way" around the track, him at the wheel and myself as a passenger, to compare driving skills. There simply is no comparison, my instructor was rock steady and controlled through all the turns and unbelievably fast. No doubt that LOTS of time was lost on that "Lightning" Lap. But as already pointed out, the BMW driving is no better -

On a different note, is the track different from past years Lightning Laps, and can we not compare to previous (ACR) times?

[VENOM V]

Wow, lost respect for C and D after watching that guy jerking at the wheel and goofing the line and shift points. He also was shifting mid-corner. Oh no, that's not going to upset the car. At very least, how can you not put the same driver in every car and expect credibility?

The pro Vs Joe idea would be cool, but I suspect it would just give the drama queen press another opportunity to call the Viper a cement mixer, lol

Still a very fast lap, and clearly nowhere near what it could have been with a better driver.

[Bruce H.]

That was just pitiful, and yet another example of why I generally ignore the rags.


On a different note, is the track different from past years Lightning Laps, and can we not compare to previous (ACR) times?

It's been repaved since the last test and is faster now by 2-3 seconds according to some.

[VENOM V]

Yep. I was at TWS when Kuno took a stock ACR around faster then some of the Comp Coupe's. Just blew me away how fast the car was in pro hands. Real pro too, not some scaredy-cat that drive's an AWD Volvo.

Man that must have been quite a sight. If they do make a Gen V ACR a reality, they should do another Kuno tour and take some new records.

[FLATOUT]

Man that must have been quite a sight. If they do make a Gen V ACR a reality, they should do another Kuno tour and take some new records.

Agree these mag jockies are clueless, seeing one of our factory guys in these cars always opened everyones eyes to what they can do.