The GT3-R car the new ACR ?

[slitherv10]

I was doing some star gazing earlier tonight and came up with some wishful thinking.

Would it make sense to cut the SRT Race division, save the money that goes towards that ( millions I'm sure) and put that money towards building the GT3-R car as a street version ACR model for the near future. the argument was always how SRT did not have enough money to make the 2013 car what they might have wanted it to be. Was it that important to have a race division and spend millions getting that off the ground in the first year of production with limited funds? Should they not have put the race car division money into making the GT3-R the new ACR with 700+ HP and thus some sales that would generate money, shut the competition and some of us for that matter? It would be a win win situation for them and for us. Hundreds of thousands is wasted in racing those cars and to me that does not make sense for a company that was in a building year. Waste that money on a street version of the GT3-R !! Make the GTS the entry level car with all the bells and whistles and offer the GT3=R car as the ACR with @700HP. Then add the race division in later years as sales bring profits.

Just my star gazing idea.

[donk_316]

nevermind. it turns out everything i wrote turned out to be off topic.

TL;DR One viper. No variants only option packages

[mnc2886]

The race team is a benefit in my opinion. Believe it or not, the ACR-X is responsible for a portion of development for the new Gen V and the everything SRT is learning in racing will be applied to the ACR. Let's put it in perspective. SRT beat the ACR's time around Laguna Seca on inferior tires and 1/4 of the down force. Look at the TA's time on racing slicks. The time with Michelins might have come between the Pirelli time and the slicks time. All this road course racing is why we have such a track monster. The Gen V may not have a marketing budget, but believe me all those sponsors for the race team are chipping in heavily too. Just wait. There will be an ACR and you'll be glad we have a GT3R and a GTS-R it learned from.

[slitherv10]

I can see some of your points. It's obvious from many Viper enthusiasts that bringing out the ACR would have been in the front lines of what people were looking for. the GT3-R was not on anyones minds as of yet. Which makes sense since we all knew they were in their first year of production with the new car and thus expectations towards a race division was something people were not expecgting anyways. But, not having a car that could kick but against the competition and or no WOW factor in styling and performance, was something that we all were expecting. Feedback has proven that. I don't see many enthusiasts whooing or humming over the GT car and what has been gong on in the race end of things. The bigger market is and has been concerned about the production car and its lack their of. the fact that , where is the HP and why not this and why not that. Where is the ACR, when is it set for production?, will their be one considering the sales and financial end of SRT? All these questions would have been answered if they would have spent their first budget of @120 million on developing the new car and an ACR version (GT3-R car). Putting the money made from production and the sponsors money into research and development on the new ACR car as a track car and using the new ACR owners feedback and testing and tuning the new ACR street version car , would have been the corner stone of developing the race car. that would have worked as well, and, in my opinion, would have been more productive.

Again, this is just my star gazing thoughts. I do love the new car and is definitely the best viper ever but, the Viper has never had the title of "better", it has always had the title of WOW. Unfortunately the bar was set too high in the past Generations and so has laid the flat form for the Viper. We never had the competition nipping at our heels. Something we as proud owners never had to deal with. That is why all the rage and indifference regarding the new car. I know SRT has done all they could with respect to what they had to work with. I just think they cold have utilized it better. IMO of course

[ViperSmith]

Arguing what they should have done is a waste of time.

The ACR will more than likely feature lots of alcantara, alcantara/cloth seats, full carbon fiber everything, plus all the goodies you'd expect an ACR to have. Wing, extra aero (active aero would be crazy). Perhaps DCT?

You won't see a GT3R type car, but I do expect the styling to be much more aggressive than the SRT/GTS/TA.

I doubt very much you'd see what Ferrari does with its challenge cars, the steel floors, but I could be wrong.

[rw99]

Well, truth is: SRT division sales performance isn't highly dependent on Viper sales... it's a halo car, and serves the purpose of defining and promoting the brand image. SRT motorsports is part of that overall function; it doesn't exist purely to sell Vipers... it serves to market all SRT product.

The ACR will emerge (if built) in small numbers as another marketing tool: SRT will learn from the mistakes made in the early Gen V magazine review sessions and utilize an ACR launch for a mid-cycle refresh of Viper publicity and excitement. Sure hope it happens, because current ACR owners that have been holding off on the Gen V will be able to open their checkbooks and obtain what could really be an amazing car.


Rich

[mnc2886]

Well, truth is: SRT division sales performance isn't highly dependent on Viper sales... it's a halo car, and serves the purpose of defining and promoting the brand image. SRT motorsports is part of that overall function; it doesn't exist purely to sell Vipers... it serves to market all SRT product.

The ACR will emerge (if built) in small numbers as another marketing tool: SRT will learn from the mistakes made in the early Gen V magazine review sessions and utilize an ACR launch for a mid-cycle refresh of Viper publicity and excitement. Sure hope it happens, because current ACR owners that have been holding off on the Gen V will be able to open their checkbooks and obtain what could really be an amazing car.


Rich


I agree. I think it may be a 2015.5 model. I heard a rumor from a reliable source that the ACR is under development and has been for a few months now.

[BlknBlu]

Look for it to be an automatic too.

Bruce

[ViperSmith]

My guess is SRT is waiting for Chevy to lift their skirt first with the ZR1.

[mnc2886]

Look for it to be an automatic too.

Bruce

I don't see how. A dual clutch trans won't hold the torque unless it costs more than the car currently does. A single clutch will still cost a fortune, especially with no other vehicle to split development with. I just don't think it will happen with the fifth generation Viper. Unless they spend the time to develop it properly, it will be a cheap fix and people won't like it. Ralph even mentioned in an interview that development of an automatic transmission would cost more than the entire budget for the whole car.

However, if they do some sort of behind the scenes split development with Chevy, kind of like the T-56, then maybe it could happen. Still, the 6-speed manual better be available if they do it.

[BlknBlu]

The GTS-R cars are running with them. a 90k upgrade.

Bruce

[ViperSmith]

What the price comes down to is, if it is a $90k option in the GTS-R (which means that it is feasible), what price point can they get it down to for "mass" production?

I think many would jump if it were a $10-15k upgrade. Consider PDK is $8,000, so it isn't too far off.

[rw99]

I'm not completely convinced of the necessity/cost for developing a dual clutch at the current power/torque levels. The ZF auto slushbox in my Jag XKR-S (550 HP, 500 TQ) is well-proven and an absolute joy to operate with the paddles. Maybe something like that could be ported over to the Viper at much lower development (and consumer) cost?

That said, at this point in the game most potential ACR buyers are completely in love with the idea of a DCT and would look on any other auto as outdated.


Rich

[mnc2886]

I'm not completely convinced of the necessity/cost for developing a dual clutch at the current power/torque levels. The ZF auto slushbox in my Jag XKR-S (550 HP, 500 TQ) is well-proven and an absolute joy to operate with the paddles. Maybe something like that could be ported over to the Viper at much lower development (and consumer) cost?

That said, at this point in the game most potential ACR buyers are completely in love with the idea of a DCT and would look on any other auto as outdated.


Rich


I think Jag has done a great job reinvigorating their brand if you will, but that transmission is suited for a GT car and a GT car the Viper is not. I don't think it would be a good idea.

[Shooter]

The GTS-R cars are running with them. a 90k upgrade.

Bruce

Those cars are de-tuned though right. Not much more then 480 hp or something. A new ACR would be running at least 160 hp more.

[BlknBlu]

Yes, I stole this off the web easier to explain.

The SRT® Viper GTS-R is powered by an 8.0-liter V-10 engine that is restricted by the series to produce between 480-490 horsepower, reaching a top speed of 185 mph. A transaxle mounted in the rear saves weight in comparison to a standard transmission, with gear changing taking place via paddle shifters on the steering wheel. On the track, the SRT Viper GTS-R is fueled by E85 as part of the ALMS’s Green Initiative program. •8.0L V-10 engine
•XTrac Transaxle
•Paddle Shift
•Tubular header exhaust system
•Fuel- E85-110-liter tank required


Bruce

[cashcorn]

Even if the ZR1 comes out first. I still don't see SRT wanting to compete. I hope i'm really wrong though.

[Longhornsmark]

1-14, they should be out , not sure about the tt rumors. There's plenty of guys on this site that won't run well after sucking up the new tt corvette into their air cleaner box. I couple of guys on here that are silent so far are waiting for the run, just gotta get the launch right with their clutch set up. Can't wait for the first videos, I can here them across the pasture in purple royal trying to get the game changed.

[rw99]

1-14, they should be out , not sure about the tt rumors. There's plenty of guys on this site that won't run well after sucking up the new tt corvette into their air cleaner box. I couple of guys on here that are silent so far are waiting for the run, just gotta get the launch right with their clutch set up. Can't wait for the first videos, I can here them across the pasture in purple royal trying to get the game changed.
Uhhhh...?

[donk_316]

1-14, they should be out , not sure about the tt rumors. There's plenty of guys on this site that won't run well after sucking up the new tt corvette into their air cleaner box. I couple of guys on here that are silent so far are waiting for the run, just gotta get the launch right with their clutch set up. Can't wait for the first videos, I can here them across the pasture in purple royal trying to get the game changed.

Yeah! wait... WHAT? Someone run this through the Super Secret Viper Decoder ring so I know what he said.

I would be on board for a rear transaxle (a la Corvette) auto trans in the ACR...

Soooo the 2015 Viper ACR is going to be... 150,000?

[mnc2886]

Yeah! wait... WHAT? Someone run this through the Super Secret Viper Decoder ring so I know what he said.

I would be on board for a rear transaxle (a la Corvette) auto trans in the ACR...

Soooo the 2015 Viper ACR is going to be... 150,000?

Unfortunately, I heard that is in the ball park.

[Troublemaker]

I think the current business case of the Gen5 will fail. I really hope they have something up their sleeve. The ACR at $150, 000 will be a short run. They really need to rethink the path they are taking and the Price points. Start putting some SRTs out there, to take away the perception of the $140, 000 car. Make a stripped down, bare bones track monster. No magazine has really given much of a crap about the interior fluff, they all compare track reviews. $5, 000 for stripes is robbery and what about some cheap non carbon aero. They haven't really managed to bring over their new and improved buyer, so lets get back to the hammer that the Viper used to be. I hate the fact they have made a car just fit in when it was really made to stand out.

[slitherv10]

I think the current business case of the Gen5 will fail. I really hope they have something up their sleeve. The ACR at $150, 000 will be a short run. They really need to rethink the path they are taking and the Price points. Start putting some SRTs out there, to take the perception of the $140, 000 car. Make a stripped down, bare bones track monster. No magazine has really given much of a crap about the interior fluff, they all compare track reviews. $5, 000 for stripes is robbery and what about some cheap non carbon aero. They haven't really managed to bring over their new and improved buyer, so lets get back to the hammer that the Viper used to be. I hate the fact they have made a car just fit in when it was really made to stand out.


:t1236:

[Troublemaker]

:t1236:

You had to go and quote me before I had a chance to catch my typos.

Sorry about the rant. I have reentered the buying market and when looking at the Gen5 I see more of a trim nailer when what I am looking for is a framing gun. Is an amazing car that is being held back

[BlknBlu]

i believe it will be 150+ and very limited numbers produced. If it is in an automatic config it will be costly. But with the recent sales of the Viper the ACR's future may be unsure.

Bruce

[Bill Pemberton]

Agree with Troublemaker , as we are seeing a huge shift in buyers towards SRTs, since there is more standard equipment in 2014, and one can have an outstanding Viper in the 111-115 range ( MSRP ).

[slitherv10]

Well, truth is: SRT division sales performance isn't highly dependent on Viper sales... it's a halo car, and serves the purpose of defining and promoting the brand image. SRT motorsports is part of that overall function; it doesn't exist purely to sell Vipers... it serves to market all SRT product.

The ACR will emerge (if built) in small numbers as another marketing tool: SRT will learn from the mistakes made in the early Gen V magazine review sessions and utilize an ACR launch for a mid-cycle refresh of Viper publicity and excitement. Sure hope it happens, because current ACR owners that have been holding off on the Gen V will be able to open their checkbooks and obtain what could really be an amazing car.


Rich


Hey Rich

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the Halo car was Dodges way of promoting the brand. A "HALO" car is an automobile model that lends prestige or attractiveness to the brands and other models of its manufacturer. It does not fit the shoe in this case as SRT only has one model. Fiat still has the Ferrari as a promotional product. SRT and the Viper brand are funded through Fiat and where as the car is not selling as expected, I am sure Fiat is not impressed. They took this project on with positive insight from SRT that this car will "work" for Fiat. I certainly hope it does and Fiat looks at is as you say" a Halo car |, but, I truly think that is not what sits well with Fiat right now. As I said earlier, I believe SRT should have concentrated on building and promoting what the Viper always stood for. Power and performance. Not creature comforts that a few money bags asked for. The heart and thus the sales of this car came from the hard working individual who saved pennies to be able to buy one of these cars. They were not looking for all the creature comforts that were added to this car. Not all of them anyway. SRT should have listened to past facts and sales, not what a few wanted. Yes, I agree, grab that market as well that wanted the comforts, but, not to the expense of giving up what this car truly stands for. Power and performance, period !
It has brought a bitter taste in peoples minds and thus the new ACR ( if there is one) will struggle with sales unless it is as the above mentioned, stripped down and cost effective targeting the people who bought these cars back in the day. Lower price to reflect todays economy and options that keep the car true to its roots. No soft leather and 18 speakers this and red snake light ups that. Just a pure simple competition killer !!

[ViperSmith]

edit: nevermind, I have nothing positive to say

[rw99]

[B]


Hey Rich

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the Halo car was Dodges way of promoting the brand. A "HALO" car is an automobile model that lends prestige or attractiveness to the brands and other models of its manufacturer. It does not fit the shoe in this case as SRT only has one model. Fiat still has the Ferrari as a promotional product. SRT and the Viper brand are funded through Fiat and where as the car is not selling as expected, I am sure Fiat is not impressed. They took this project on with positive insight from SRT that this car will "work" for Fiat. I certainly hope it does and Fiat looks at is as you say" a Halo car |, but, I truly think that is not what sits well with Fiat right now. As I said earlier, I believe SRT should have concentrated on building and promoting what the Viper always stood for. Power and performance. Not creature comforts that a few money bags asked for. The heart and thus the sales of this car came from the hard working individual who saved pennies to be able to buy one of these cars. They were not looking for all the creature comforts that were added to this car. Not all of them anyway. SRT should have listened to past facts and sales, not what a few wanted. Yes, I agree, grab that market as well that wanted the comforts, but, not to the expense of giving up what this car truly stands for. Power and performance, period !
It has brought a bitter taste in peoples minds and thus the new ACR ( if there is one) will struggle with sales unless it is as the above mentioned, stripped down and cost effective targeting the people who bought these cars back in the day. Lower price to reflect todays economy and options that keep the car true to its roots. No soft leather and 18 speakers this and red snake light ups that. Just a pure simple competition killer !!

You know, that's a really good point re: Fiat/Chrysler/SRT and a "Halo Car"... SRT has this weird space as its own brand now, technically with only the Viper in its stable. Having talked with Beth a few times, though, it's clear that she sees anything with an SRT badge as her product... whether it starts as an SRT, Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep. And she is focused on delivering SRT products that feature upgraded interiors and higher quality. At higher price tags, yes. There are five SRT models, not one, and Viper represents them as the Halo Car and the motorsports icon. You see this clearly in their ad copy, such as on DriveSRT.com:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r257/rw99/SRT_zpsf50bfe59.jpg

And while Big Daddy Fiat technically has the promotional ability to use Ferrari as the crown jewels of the empire, they don't. No consumer draws a line from Ferrari through Fiat to buy a Dodge or a Lancia. And Fiat rightly avoids any dilution of the marque; Ferrari achieved record sales and profit in 2012 and constitutes a potent moneymaker on their own (I think I read they're now Fiat's most profitable brand). Fiat... is beyond the need for one product to represent its many brands.

But I absolutely see your point: for the Viper, there's that very personal Ralph/Sergio interaction that saved the car... and Viper's going to have to justify its own business case at some point. I'm hoping that the justification will come in the form of SRT sales numbers for all five models, not just the Viper.

You can argue that a Halo Car does little for your brand if too few can (or will) buy it, as per Ford GT. I'm hopeful that Viper sales will pick up in 2014-2015, and I think they will... they're capable of building "special editions" like the TA and Anodized Carbon; I think these will catch some buyers that have been on the fence. Follow it up with an all-business no-frills ACR, as you say, and I think Viper lives on.

We'll have some warning if they're pulling the trigger on an ACR, that's for sure. It's gotta get tested on tracks outside of Michigan, and it'll be hard to miss!


Rich

[Troublemaker]

I really think they need to gey away from the fancy, frilly expensive GTS and rekindle what made it the monster it was. They need a Lotus Exige style model. All buff, no fluff, like an all around better performing Gen2 at under $90, 000. That is the car many want to see again, also the one I'm waiting to buy. I love my 96 in all its crudeness, the B&W should also be a paint job you could order. I think they went after the wrong market, but I see it much easier to remove from the car than add to it. If they could figure out how to shave a few hundred lbs and add some subtle aero to a tunable car at a decent price you would have a winner.

[donk_316]

I really think they need to gey away from the fancy, frilly expensive GTS and rekindle what made it the monster it was. They need a Lotus Exige style model. All buff, no fluff, like an all around better performing Gen2 at under $90, 000. That is the car many want to see again, also the one I'm waiting to buy. I love my 96 in all its crudeness, the B&W should also be a paint job you could order. I think they went after the wrong market, but I see it much easier to remove from the car than add to it. If they could figure out how to shave a few hundred lbs and add some subtle aero to a tunable car at a decent price you would have a winner.

Love this idea!
The new ACR should be a SRT with those ballistic seats (NOT electric / added weight = bad), all the CF options they are offering now for inside and out with the typical ACR style suspension and aero. No need to even touch the engine (just adds cost)
I would finally get off the fence for that. Wish they would atleast confirm the ACR is actually on the table.

[XSnake]

Anyone waiting on an ACR will be waiting awhile. I've talked directly with someone with SRT. Also, you are not going to like the price tag at all of the ACR. (I actually got a # out of the person and I will not repeat it.)

It will basically be a legal version of a GT3-R and that costs $640k.

[slitherv10]

Anyone waiting on an ACR will be waiting awhile. I've talked directly with someone with SRT. Also, you are not going to like the price tag at all of the ACR. (I actually got a # out of the person and I will not repeat it.)

It will basically be a legal version of a GT3-R and that costs $640k.

As they did during the heitas of the 2011 and 12 seasons, they allowed Chevy and Ford in the snake pit and tame the Viper. They have and will be doing the same thing now by delaying its fruition. By the time the ACR is brought out, those 2 other guys will have enough time once again to put us right back where we are now. The Prey. Not the predator we have always been.
The only way the Viper will once again atop the American muscle challenge would be firstly (and too late) to have done it already, and or at least to have it doe for the coming year. Otherwise we will have missed the boat once again. The earlier models always had a few years buffer zone among HP and Performance over the others and thus why won championships and were feared. Why it took Chevy nearly ten years(2005) to compete with the Gen 2 cars. 10 years !! No it has finally caught up and in some cases surpassed the Viper in those avenues. Styling and exclusiveness is something they don't really care about. They have and always had the market and will continue to. They have a much larger following than the Viper will ever have. The styling and creature comforts never made them, it was the name and what it stood for. The all American sports car. They had that title and arguably still do today. They know they can't lose that. No matter what SRT does. For us, it means one thing. We need to keep what we always stood for , one thing, Performance and HP. Not creature comforts and not sales numbers.
They ACR will do nothing in my opinion to boost SRT.Fiat.or Chrysler. The GT3-R has been seen heard and realized. It will not be hard for the competition to top that now either , given a few years to do so as well.
We need to find a way to get ahead of the 8 ball now. Balls in our court for the first time since our inception. Unfortunately we have not been here before and don't know how to overcome it or just can't. Like I said in my earlier post. The GT3-R should have been a production ACR for 2013, no race division which translates to more money to produce it. Problem now is, they need to bring out a totally different version now to capture the hearts. To bring back the WOW factor Viper has always brought to the table.

[Troublemaker]

Love this idea!
The new ACR should be a SRT with those ballistic seats (NOT electric / added weight = bad), all the CF options they are offering now for inside and out with the typical ACR style suspension and aero. No need to even touch the engine (just adds cost)
I would finally get off the fence for that. Wish they would atleast confirm the ACR is actually on the table.

I'm not saying all of the cars should be built like this, just offer it as a model. They really need to rethink their core buyers, the freaks that have jumped on the band wagon long before the Viper became refined. There are buyers out there that really just want the old car to reappear with the advancements that have been made over the 20 years.

I realize the motor is what it is with the software/hardware being owned by another company, it was a bad decision that we all have to live with. 700hp seems to be the limit, not a bad limit. All of the current buyers seem to really like the car, obviously they did a good job on the total package. Unfortunately going by the sales numbers, the car doesn't appeal to a huge market.

If we take the Corvette as an business case example( like it or not, it is the competition) the base model comes in around half of what the Zs sell for. The Z06 and ZR1 have never been great sellers, I'm sure somebody will post the numbers. Yet SRT came out with the equivalent first. The base model Vette is the bread and butter of that platform and the options can be added as the buyer wishes. You can order a stripped down example in the 50s, although out the door seems to be higher. That is your core buyer, you get them in the seat at a reasonable price and let them figure out what else they want. With the Viper we don't have that, it comes with 95% of the add ons stock and leaves the base price around $100,000 with diminishes the demographic of your buyer. I don't think there is a buyer here that expects to pay in the 50s for a Viper, but reality has shown they aren't jumping off their seats to pay 100k+. Base price is what's hurting this car, not the car itself.

Now lets look at the aftermarket, or lack there of. The computer in these things is a complex pain in the a$$ the aftermarket is not investing time and money into. The demand just isn't there to justify the R&D into. Now if you are selling more cars from appealing to a broader audience, the aftermarket will follow if there is money to be made.

To end this rant if people are even still reading, the car needs to have things taken away, not added IMO. They need to get the price down and it looks like they are now doing what they can to get more buyers butts where they should be. The whole tuning situation is a dead horse as far as the manufacturer is concerned, their hands are tied. Now they need to figure out how to get more of these cars on the road, so people who's hands aren't tied will pick it up from there.

Do the aero parts really need to be carbon fiber to be effective, I don't think so. Put a limited model out there with well performing aero and see how it does. And I'm not even going to get into what they charge for stripes and paint.

It's a small production, hand built car built by a passionate company. It seems like it would be an easy challenge to change the way these role off the line.

I really want one of these cars and hope they can finally build what I'm looking for.

When carving a block of ice into a bird, you remove everything that isn't the bird.

[mnc2886]

Anyone waiting on an ACR will be waiting awhile. I've talked directly with someone with SRT. Also, you are not going to like the price tag at all of the ACR. (I actually got a # out of the person and I will not repeat it.)

It will basically be a legal version of a GT3-R and that costs $640k.

So they haven't learned their lesson on pricing yet? We'll see.......

We've already seen the market for a $140k Viper. I can't imagine how thin things will be north of that.

[XSnake]

So they haven't learned their lesson on pricing yet? We'll see.......

We've already seen the market for a $140k Viper. I can't imagine how thin things will be north of that.

Performance cost $$$

[VENOM V]

So they haven't learned their lesson on pricing yet? We'll see.......

We've already seen the market for a $140k Viper. I can't imagine how thin things will be north of that.

Totally agree. If its $640k, the owners will be too afraid to drive it on the track. You'd see as many ACRs on the track as you will the $929k Porsche 918. Zero. Posers and collectors will own that silly 918.

I don't care if it breaks the Ring record if it costs $640k.

We need an ACR that is reasonable in price, that us mere mortals can buy and track. Perhaps it starts at $130k. I can't imagine it could base near the TA, so it's got to be at least $130k to cover the cost of big aero Etc. Then offer some high end options (CCB and other big improvements) to allow it to compete for Ring dominance. But the base ACR has to be reasonably priced or they won't sell and will be irrelevant like the 918.

[ViperSmith]

I think many would jump at it at $160k - max

Above that, it is a hard sell IMHO.

Unless it is blistering fast. I'd love to see it compete with the 918, but getting a sub 7-second ring lap will require some ingenuity

[Shooter]

I think many would jump at it at $160k - max

Above that, it is a hard sell IMHO.

Unless it is blistering fast. I'd love to see it compete with the 918, but getting a sub 7-second ring lap will require some ingenuity

I agree about the price, and about the sub 7- second lap. The ACR X did a 7:03. If a street legal Gen V ACR can beat that, I will be elated. And more willing to part with my hard earned money. I'm probably out of the picture though. While I can afford a $160k car, I truly doubt I would pay that.

[99RT10]

i believe it will be 150+ and very limited numbers produced. If it is in an automatic config it will be costly. But with the recent sales of the Viper the ACR's future may be unsure.

Bruce

I believe the platform will be dead by 2016. IF they build it, and that is a big if, the ACR would have to look just like the race car and have 700 HP to be marketable and the price needs to be $135k or less otherwise it will die on the vine just like the Gen V.

[slitherv10]

I believe the platform will be dead by 2016. IF they build it, and that is a big if, the ACR would have to look just like the race car and have 700 HP to be marketable and the price needs to be $135k or less otherwise it will die on the vine just like the Gen V.


What he said ^^^^^^^^^


Price it competitively with the ZR1, GTR and the 911 turbo, add a minimum 50HP more than them with better 0-60 times and quarter runs, and they will regain the spirit this car had in 1992 and 1996 and thus the respect from all the disbelievers that have come to fruition in the last year. Keep the engine format (saving money) and lighten the car up significantly, to get to the numbers financially and there will be no quam's. Adding turbo's or the like will not be cost affective. The styling and mere presence of the GT3-R car will sell itself. No need to market it as they have the Gen 5.
A 160 K price tag , Vipersmith, will leave that car in the back burner. They need to cut costs by scraping the race division and implementing the money into this new car in order for this to happen. Once off the ground and Fiat, Chrysler and the like are happy with sales and demand, they will fund the race division once again. The way things are going right now, I hate to think about what the future has in store for SRT. At 135-150K the ACR will be more affordable and trade ins from 2010 (ACR)2013,2014 cars along with earlier Gen's will be pouring in and the New car will rule the streets once again. Not the Corvettes as one thread here is advertising. Get the cars out there kicking butt and Dodge dealerships will have corvettes, mustangs, and even porsche's and our Italian friends too on their lots with for sale signs on them! I personally know of a handful of friends who sold/traded those "other cars" and put themselves in the Viper for the bragging rights (HP) back in the olden days of HP and performance. Not leather stitched this and 18 speaker that.

[Troublemaker]

What he said ^^^^^^^^^


Price it competitively with the ZR1, GTR and the 911 turbo, add a minimum 50HP more than them with better 0-60 times and quarter runs, and they will regain the spirit this car had in 1992 and 1996 and thus the respect from all the disbelievers that have come to fruition in the last year. Keep the engine format (saving money) and lighten the car up significantly, to get to the numbers financially and there will be no quam's. Adding turbo's or the like will not be cost affective. The styling and mere presence of the GT3-R car will sell itself. No need to market it as they have the Gen 5.
A 160 K price tag , Vipersmith, will leave that car in the back burner. They need to cut costs by scraping the race division and implementing the money into this new car in order for this to happen. Once off the ground and Fiat, Chrysler and the like are happy with sales and demand, they will fund the race division once again. The way things are going right now, I hate to think about what the future has in store for SRT. At 135-150K the ACR will be more affordable and trade ins from 2010 (ACR)2013,2014 cars along with earlier Gen's will be pouring in and the New car will rule the streets once again. Not the Corvettes as one thread here is advertising. Get the cars out there kicking butt and Dodge dealerships will have corvettes, mustangs, and even porsche's and our Italian friends too on their lots with for sale signs on them! I personally know of a handful of friends who sold/traded those "other cars" and put themselves in the Viper for the bragging rights (HP) back in the olden days of HP and performance. Not leather stitched this and 18 speaker that.

I think at least we are on the same page. The racing division is cool, but it just seems like they are throwing away money. That is supposed to be a test bed for future improvements, racing technology trickles down to the street cars. The only similarity I see is that is has close to same motor, although shrunk and choked.

[XSnake]

I believe the platform will be dead by 2016. IF they build it, and that is a big if, the ACR would have to look just like the race car and have 700 HP to be marketable and the price needs to be $135k or less otherwise it will die on the vine just like the Gen V.

That's just not realistic. You want a car that is faster than a 600k car for $130k.

[99RT10]

That's just not realistic. You want a car that is faster than a 600k car for $130k.

We could have had that with the launch of the Gen V but Fiat CEO held Ralph's chain, not letting him go beyond the power level of Ferrari.

[ViperSmith]

We could have had that with the launch of the Gen V but Fiat CEO held Ralph's chain, not letting him go beyond the power level of Ferrari.

Ralph said that was a joke, when will you all stop perpetuating it?

[99RT10]

Ralph said that was a joke, when will you all stop perpetuating it?

The joke was launching the new car with little to no more power than the last Generation AND getting it's ass handed by a 4 year old Corvette. The joke was further "perpetuated" by such a bad showing in all the magazine shootouts/test because of the lack of preparation by SRT. The test mules showing up in the shape they did was embarrassing.

[ViperSmith]

That's just not realistic. You want a car that is faster than a 600k car for $130k.

It has all gotten quite comical.

Look at the price of the Viper with the budget they had. People cry that it costs $100,000 for the base SRT now (Well, people are complaining the Viper now "costs $140,000" because we all know every Viper sold has every option checked).

Yet, the R&D efforts required (which SRT could not do, because this was basically an unfunded project, people seem to completely forget) required to get the HP levels people want, would have required a substantial increase in price.

People want the ACR to do absolutely everything, but then they will complain that it carries a price tag over what the 1999 ACR costs, completely ignoring the world we live in today with other cars and performance.

Lets get real. The R&D required to match the 918, LaFerrari, P1 will require a bit of cash and it will be paid for in the terms of a higher MSRP.

Hopefully the higher MSRP means it will completely dominate everything for a fraction of the price.

I think the TA is sort of the "here is your cheaper alternative" if you want to go really fast, because the ACR is going to "break the bank" for many.

[ViperSmith]

The joke was launching the new car with little to no more power than the last Generation AND getting it's ass handed by a 4 year old Corvette. The joke was further "perpetuated" by such a bad showing in all the magazine shootouts/test because of the lack of preparation by SRT. The test mules showing up in the shape they did was embarrassing.

And with all of that, it still beats the F12 around the track.

Yep, really held back.

[99RT10]

It has all gotten quite comical.

Look at the price of the Viper with the budget they had. People cry that it costs $100,000 for the base SRT now (Well, people are complaining the Viper now "costs $140,000" because we all know every Viper sold has every option checked).

Yet, the R&D efforts required (which SRT could not do, because this was basically an unfunded project, people seem to completely forget) required to get the HP levels people want, would have required a substantial increase in price.



Yeah because it was more important to have $10K paint options or 18 speaker sound system. You know everything the Viper owner wants. Not a faster car, but better sound................http://gallery.viperclub.org/data/500/1882screwy.jpg

[ViperSmith]

Yeah because it was more important to have $10K paint options or 18 speaker sound system. You know everything the Viper owner wants. Not a faster car, but better sound................http://gallery.viperclub.org/data/500/1882screwy.jpg

The cost to offer expensive paint, an 18 speaker stereo system, and upgraded leather are drops in the bucket compared to what it would cost to rework the power train.

Come on.


Edit:
Also as a note the new GT-R has run over the ACR record http://jalopnik.com/nissan-gt-r-nismo-this-is-it-1466637336

Estimated price is around $200k. So that $95k base Nissan is commanding a $200k price to set records. The cost of the new ACR ain't going to be cheap.

[XSnake]

New ACR will have NO problem beating a 7:08 if it get made. I'm betting it will be under the sub 7 min mark. But, even then people are going to bitch about the price.

[mnc2886]

The cost to offer expensive paint, an 18 speaker stereo system, and upgraded leather are drops in the bucket compared to what it would cost to rework the power train.

Come on.


Edit:
Also as a note the new GT-R has run over the ACR record http://jalopnik.com/nissan-gt-r-nismo-this-is-it-1466637336

Estimated price is around $200k. So that $95k base Nissan is commanding a $200k price to set records. The cost of the new ACR ain't going to be cheap.

First, it says under $200k, so we don't know where it is going to end up. Secondly, that car is electronically and mechanically more sophisticated than the Viper with similar production levels. I would expect that it would cost more than the Viper. Not saying that Nissan didn't beat the ACR, but I believe it was Nissan that got caught claiming a 'Ring time that combined the best sections of multiple runs and not one clean run in the past. We'll see if their claim is legitimate.

However, let's say it does cost $200k. Let's go through the reasons why the Gen V ACR shouldn't.

The GTR has a really expensive drivetrain. From the transmission to the AWD setup, this has got to add a huge amount of money ($20k+).
Twin Turbo DOHC engine. That will cost more than the Viper's NA pushrod power plant. (Maybe $10k more)
Electronics. The GTR has such sophisticated stability and traction control that the car damn near drives itself. ($who the hell knows!?!?)

No reason why a Gen V ACR can't be under $150k, especially built upon a base SRT as it should be. SRT, Ralph specifically, has tossed around 1500 lbs+ of downforce. Add that to a car that is lighter and more powerful than a Gen IV ACR, and you'll beat the claimed GTR Nismo time no problem.

I hate that price has become such a discussion with this car, but until the car is priced right, you'll see people post/complain about it. No way a $200k Viper sells, period.

[slitherv10]

There will always be a faster race horse. It's whether you want to own an ugly one or a good looking one. Even if SRT found the money and built the car of our dreams, the other guys would simply do the same. Its a teeter totter that will never stop. A few will go out there and purchase a 160K+ ACR only to have it beat that year or the next by the competition. Then where are you ? Back complaining about building another one faster.
Here is an easy solution.....buy an ACR or Gen 2 for that matter, put a 20K TT in it, stop teck, baer, brembo or whatever brakes, Motons, Tranny, half shafts etc and for a quarter of the cost you got yourself a faster car that will eat up the competition. If speed is what your beef is. If you have too much money to know what to do with it then, a new car for bragging rights is what you'll have. Its either one or the other. SRT, Chevy, Nissan or any other company cannot make everyone happy. If your a true Viper fan, you'll love and buy the car for what it is, not what it should or could have been. You love your family for who they are not what they can be. Love the Viper for what it is also. The nah sayers are the ones who love it for what it should represent and the Yah sayers are the ones that love it for what it is, a sexy, mean, feared formidable opponent. The days of thunder are gone for this car. Its no longer ahead of the pack, just among it. Resistance is futile.
I too agree that it should have been, but, I have grown to love this car beyond its position in HP rankings. I love it (and you should) for what it stands for. A whore that comes around now and again and "screws" things up.

[Troublemaker]

The GTR has to be one of the ugliest engineering marvels for the money. Like was said above, if you want to be the fastest, you need to keep making your car faster. The OEMs are putting out some pretty fast cars right now, that is unarguable. I think I am going to hold off on a new Viper for now and have fun with the one I have. The size of your wallet is the only limit.

[XSnake]

First, it says under $200k, so we don't know where it is going to end up. Secondly, that car is electronically and mechanically more sophisticated than the Viper with similar production levels. I would expect that it would cost more than the Viper. Not saying that Nissan didn't beat the ACR, but I believe it was Nissan that got caught claiming a 'Ring time that combined the best sections of multiple runs and not one clean run in the past. We'll see if their claim is legitimate.

However, let's say it does cost $200k. Let's go through the reasons why the Gen V ACR shouldn't.

The GTR has a really expensive drivetrain. From the transmission to the AWD setup, this has got to add a huge amount of money ($20k+).
Twin Turbo DOHC engine. That will cost more than the Viper's NA pushrod power plant. (Maybe $10k more)
Electronics. The GTR has such sophisticated stability and traction control that the car damn near drives itself. ($who the hell knows!?!?)

No reason why a Gen V ACR can't be under $150k, especially built upon a base SRT as it should be. SRT, Ralph specifically, has tossed around 1500 lbs+ of downforce. Add that to a car that is lighter and more powerful than a Gen IV ACR, and you'll beat the claimed GTR Nismo time no problem.

I hate that price has become such a discussion with this car, but until the car is priced right, you'll see people post/complain about it. No way a $200k Viper sells, period.

You're basing this on the assumption that the ACR will not be getting any new more sophisticated updates. (New trans is going to be $$$)
How much CF does the GTR use? That stuff is expensive and the ACR will be full of it. Same with super formed aluminum???

Everyone wants carbon fiber, ceramic brakes and 700hp but nobody wants to pay for these things. You guys still think it should be $100-$120k with all that stuff. Ain't gonna happen.

[Disturbed]

You're basing this on the assumption that the ACR will not be getting any new more sophisticated updates. (New trans is going to be $$$)
How much CF does the GTR use? That stuff is expensive and the ACR will be full of it. Same with super formed aluminum???

Everyone wants carbon fiber, ceramic brakes and 700hp but nobody wants to pay for these things. You guys still think it should be $100-$120k with all that stuff. Ain't gonna happen.


The Viper is supposed to be a Halo car. Build it as bad ass a possible. If it breaks records people (collectors and a few wealthy track rats) will buy it. For people like myself after the price comes down I'll buy a used one at a price I can afford 10 years after production has ended.

[slitherv10]

There will always be a faster race horse. It's whether you want to own an ugly one or a good looking one. Even if SRT found the money and built the car of our dreams, the other guys would simply do the same. Its a teeter totter that will never stop. A few will go out there and purchase a 160K+ ACR only to have it beat that year or the next by the competition. Then where are you ? Back complaining about building another one faster.
Here is an easy solution.....buy an ACR or Gen 2 for that matter, put a 20K TT in it, stop teck, baer, brembo or whatever brakes, Motons, Tranny, half shafts etc and for a quarter of the cost you got yourself a faster car that will eat up the competition. If speed is what your beef is. If you have too much money to know what to do with it then, a new car for bragging rights is what you'll have. Its either one or the other. SRT, Chevy, Nissan or any other company cannot make everyone happy. If your a true Viper fan, you'll love and buy the car for what it is, not what it should or could have been. You love your family for who they are not what they can be. Love the Viper for what it is also. The nah sayers are the ones who love it for what it should represent and the Yah sayers are the ones that love it for what it is, a sexy, mean, feared formidable opponent. The days of thunder are gone for this car. Its no longer ahead of the pack, just among it. Resistance is futile.
I too agree that it should have been, but, I have grown to love this car beyond its position in HP rankings. I love it (and you should) for what it stands for. A whore that comes around now and again and "screws" things up.

[Late Apex]

The GTR has to be one of the ugliest engineering marvels for the money. Like was said above, if you want to be the fastest, you need to keep making your car faster. The OEMs are putting out some pretty fast cars right now, that is unarguable. I think I am going to hold off on a new Viper for now and have fun with the one I have. The size of your wallet is the only limit. Very well said on all accounts !!! And same here.

[slitherv10]

Excuse me if I am not up to par on the current but, did the Gen 5 run the Nurburgring yet?

[XSnake]

Excuse me if I am not up to par on the current but, did the Gen 5 run the Nurburgring yet?

No it has not

[DreadLox]

No it has not

^ It needs to. Im stoked about the new ACR, regardless of the price. I swore I'd sell my SSG ACR for one but they would have to be EXTRAORDINARY for me to give it up (and they'd have to offer SSG lol). The wait has been killing me

[Policy Limits]

Isn't the gen V TA a trimmed down bare bones track monster?? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it out perform all prior gen's including the last ACR? And including the last ZR1?

It looks sexy in crusher orange too. It's our ACR for now and it's off the charts hot. It took a 3/4 mill 918 to beat its time.

I like the extra stuff I got on the GTS though, and would consider upgrading to a roadster or new ACR if they make those variants.

I think it's funny how the consensus is that they have a limited budget. It's more like a fictitious one that originates from a governmental bailout to an insolvent company.