Viper TA Track Attack #9, New track 8-19-14...and maybe the most fun yet!

[Bruce H.]

Canadian Tire Motorsports Park (aka Mosport) has a Driver Development Track (DDT) that they've expanded and upgraded this year. It's a safe track with minimal barriers to run into, and a good place to feel out your car and skills at the limit. This was my first time on it, as was it for all but the McLaren owner at this 6th Gear event. They had an advanced run group that I was in, and an intermediate group, and we alternated 30 minute sessions on the track. It was a gorgeous day with several high-end performance cars.

The track has countless corners as you will see in the video, 3 short straights, one long high-speed stretch with some kinks and crests to mess with you, some modest elevation changes, and a bunch of technical bits. I didn't think I'd enjoy a smaller and lower speed track, but it was a blast...and I've never been busier behind the wheel with all those corners. I was amazed how well the TA did in this tighter configuration, and when I say it did well it was completely DOMINATING!!! By the end I found myself desperately looking forward to dicing it up with the C7 Z06 ;) Hopefully it won't be too heavy, prone to heat soak, or fragile to last a full session.

Check out the video selecting 720P and full screen for your Gen V Viper fix where a Vette, 911 GT3 and 911 Turbo all help make it fun ...

http://youtu.be/KRknb_hHW5w

Still bone stock, still original Corsa tires with 8 previous track days and over 8000 miles, still gripping like crazy. I'll rotate the fronts for my next track day Sept 1st, and have new fronts whether I need them or not for my day with Kuno on Sept 3rd.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/Viper%20TA/DDTAug192014_zpsc345c756.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/Viper%20TA/DDTAug192014_zpsc345c756.jpg.html)

Bruce

[Brad00GTS]

I guess that's what it would be like to drive an automatic viper. The shifter looked like it was in first the whole time, is that right? That track will definitely wear your tires faster. Looks like a great time.

[Bruce H.]

You've been reading way too many post about a long tall first gear...that was over 90 mph in places! I was using 2nd and 3rd initially, but as I approached the limits of grip through corners I found 3rd gave me enough torque, even from as low as 2000 rpm in the slowest corners.

[Brad00GTS]

That makes more sense, the shifter was up, I knew that, I didn't think of third because of the slow corners, I just figured you would be shifting to second if you were in third.

[01sapphirebob]

Looks like a fun track!

[Bruce H.]

Another clip chasing the Vette and new GT3...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbKJNnavMGw&feature=em-upload_owner

[SilveRT8]

Excellent, Great driving on a fun track !

[Roy]

Haha great video! Especially when the grey Porsche went off the track and your buddy shouted "ah you chicken", I had to laugh out loud!

Doesn't get more American, you did not shift even once in the whole 6 minutes...and you didn't have to either. I drove a similar track some time ago and found myself shifting too often, taking balance out of the car where I didn't need to, laptimes went straight up when I just used the low end torque...

[VENOM V]

Awesome Bruce! Smooth hands, excellent line using the whole track, and as you said, making them your bitch, LOL!

Still can't believe your tires lasted that long. I think that if I had the TA alignment back in the beginning, mine would have lasted longer as well.

I love the smaller technical tracks like the 2.1 miler at Spring Mountain. It's nice to be on a track where you can push hard and not worry about too many walls that will bite you.

[Bruce H.]

Haha great video! Especially when the grey Porsche went off the track and your buddy shouted "ah you chicken", I had to laugh out loud!

Doesn't get more American, you did not shift even once in the whole 6 minutes...and you didn't have to either. I drove a similar track some time ago and found myself shifting too often, taking balance out of the car where I didn't need to, laptimes went straight up when I just used the low end torque...

So true, and when I was following the GT3 I didn't have to use my brakes much either, hence my comment "why does he keep using his brakes?" I was there to learn, and the car taught me it can do stuff I didn't think was possible. I had the tires squealing like raped chickens through a number of corners, some from turn-in to turn-out . I turned off the ESC at the beginning of one session to feel that out...and then I saw the GT3, the red mist was back, and so was the ESC ON! I kicked his ass all day and never got tired of it! I think I must have unresolved issues related to a Porsche I was looking at and it's left me scarred!


Awesome Bruce! Smooth hands, excellent line using the whole track, and as you said, making them your bitch, LOL!

Still can't believe your tires lasted that long. I think that if I had the TA alignment back in the beginning, mine would have lasted longer as well.

I love the smaller technical tracks like the 2.1 miler at Spring Mountain. It's nice to be on a track where you can push hard and not worry about too many walls that will bite you.

I've only looked at lap times from the first and last sessions so far, but it's interesting that I was running my fastest times of the day part way into the first session on this new track, and after a whole day was still running the exact same best times on clear laps. That means that I'm either learning-impaired, or I was able to bring it up to the limits of grip quickly and with confidence...I'm going with the latter!

The 3 laps in the first video were 102, 96 and 100 seconds following the Vette and Porsches, after running numerous 95's, and in the second video (from the first session) I recorded a 110 and 100 sec following the same, and having run consecutive 95's just before catching up to them. I couldn't tell what lap times they were running in clear traffic, or if they improved much over the day, but I would see the GT3 in the distance and a third of a lap later I was on his tail again.

I found it was very easy to slide the car around with ESC On, Trac ESC (no TC) didn't seem any different as far as I could tell, and I eventually had to tell myself it was time to tidy up my laps. You've found a noticable improvement with Trac ESC, which makes me wonder just how much you like to slide the rear???

I've always resisted curling my thumbs around the wheel on the track, but seem to keep doing that with the Viper. I'm wondering if it's a reaction to the need for increased strength/grip in the corners due to the force in the wheel, or whether it's something else. Do you grip the wheel the same way? I was very conscious of cooling down the brakes well before parking it this time.

Tires showed remarkably little wear from the day. Left one showed some, right not at all. I'll rotate them and ready for TA #10! Glad you got your alignment done!

[Vprbite]

Is it wrong I am at half club right now??? :)

Man you are one hell of a driver! I was showing my GF the video, as you were coming up on the vette and the Porsche like they were standing still she asked "Is the Viper just that badass that it beats all of those cars, even that Porsche you said is really expensive?" Well, after I told her I had never loved her as much as I did at that moment, I said that well, yes...but you were a much better driver. That I couldn't tear up a track like that yet, or at least I don't think so. But in some places you could see where you took the much better line and they took the more "novice" line. That's what it looked like in my opinion. Also, being a DDT, you could really get after it and know that worst case you just end up in the grass. Great way to really find those limits and burn them into your mind and the Gyroscope in your ass.

I can't believe you are getting that much longevity out of those tires. So that many track days and what sounds like a fair amount of street driving. How many miles might you estimate on the track? About 500? Really impressive to get that much out of a set of tires cause learning and pushing your limits can really punish some tires. It says a lot about them. They seemed like they were talking to you quote a lot near the end. were they just good and hot by then, making them squawk at ya more? And you aren't going to replace all four before your day with Kuno? If I had a track day with Kuno, I would be nervous like I had a date with a Victoria's Secret model. I would be asking everyone "Do I look good, is my hair good? I don't look like I am trying too hard do I? I want to look cool but not like I am trying. Does my car look good? Should I wash it or go with the messy look?" Seriously, I would just be giddy like a schoolgirl.

Keep the videos coming. It's awesome to see you out there representing the Viper and showing what it is capable of and doing with it what nature intended. You wouldn't try and make a shark into a vegetarian, would you? So let the Viper get out there and hunt. I love it. And I really do learn from the vids. Interesting to see you stay in third. I guess you had enough torque, so even though you may have accelerated a bit quicker in 2nd, the time lost in the shift and the potential weight shift would negate the acceleration I assume? Do you think a driver like Kuno would shift? Or would you shift with a dog box? These are just questions, not critiques. Just trying to learn from someone much more advanced than I am.

Thanks for the Vid and what is also a fantastic long term tire review. I can't wait to hear about the Kuno session.

[VENOM V]

I found it was very easy to slide the car around with ESC On, Trac ESC (no TC) didn't seem any different as far as I could tell, and I eventually had to tell myself it was time to tidy up my laps. You've found a noticable improvement with Trac ESC, which makes me wonder just how much you like to slide the rear???

My experience is that if the ass end steps out significantly when running in Sport Mode, traction control would kick in and completely eliminate any throttle no matter how far I pressed the go-pedal. So just when you need the ability to drive yourself through a sticky situation by accelerating to shift weight on the rear tires for grip, it does the opposite. It cuts throttle, transferring weight away from the rear, causing a violent fishtail. With Track Mode, it is like driving another car. Very easy to control at the limit, easy to do a drift around a corner and smoothly bring it back to straight with some throttle. No violence, just smoothness. Maybe they improved the tuning in 2014. But I will never track again with anything less than Track Mode or perhaps full off (but haven't felt the need for that yet!).

[Bruce H.]

Vprbite,

I'm very glad if I helped you with your love life. PM me your first names and I'll dedicate a pass to you both in the next video!

I really don't know what track miles might be on them, but the number of days on track is a better measure. I had a couple of really easy days (in the rain), a couple more easy dry days when I wasn't pushing it very hard, another 5 days that were advanced level aggressive. On a high-speed track you don't tend to slide the car much compared to what you saw in these videos. The wear here was probably double that of a regular track day. They're lasting remarkably well, paricularly considering they're a 60 wear rating, and all the extra highway miles. They squawked more because I was diving into corners at higher speeds, not because they were over-heated. I was using the brakes less and less and using the tires to scrub off speed.

Kuno's baby's delivery date was moved up and too close to our Sept 3 date. I've got 3 more days in the fall and we'll try to reschedule one of those. I'm preparing well for my day with him instead of being nervous. You have to be cool, calm and collected to be competent on track. I'll have new front tires on for his day, but plan to basically cord the originals if their performance doesn't fall off first. That'll give me a better idea of knowing when to replace them next time. He would shift more if he were racing, but no more than necessary otherwise I don't think. There's big gains to be made by balancing the car on the limits of adhesion throughout the entire corner, and when doing that you just can't apply that much torque to the rear wheels. A DCT will always have an advantage in racing for seemless and constant shifting, but I failed to find the fun or reward in flicking a finger after doing it for a while in lapping days... so I flipped the finger to DCT and autos instead :)



My experience is that if the ass end steps out significantly when running in Sport Mode, traction control would kick in and completely eliminate any throttle no matter how far I pressed the go-pedal. So just when you need the ability to drive yourself through a sticky situation by accelerating to shift weight on the rear tires for grip, it does the opposite. It cuts throttle, transferring weight away from the rear, causing a violent fishtail. With Track Mode, it is like driving another car. Very easy to control at the limit, easy to do a drift around a corner and smoothly bring it back to straight with some throttle. No violence, just smoothness. Maybe they improved the tuning in 2014. But I will never track again with anything less than Track Mode or perhaps full off (but haven't felt the need for that yet!).

You've noted that before, but I guess I just haven't got it out of shape enough to find any intervention the odd time I've ended up in ESC ON. I choose TRAC ESC all the time so I will have its advantage as you describe, but it reverting to ESC ON means I sometimes end up in that mode if I shut off the engine on pit row while waiting. I thought I'd get it out of shape at this event, and did a few times, but pretty minor really and never even got a wheel off the pavement.

[Vprbite]

Hehe, that would be nice Bruce. I hear ya on the tires. Just pushing them to the limit and making them whine. I guess I wonder about heat cause out here in Arizona, our Tarmac heats up fast and tires get sloppy pretty quickly, even without pushing them to the limits.

I know you need to be relaxed to do well, I just mean I would be like a schoolgirl with Kuno coaching me. I am aware I lose cool points for saying that but I don't care. I am sure once I was there I could handle it fine. When I played college hockey I played with some ex NHL guys for fun from time to time and I never gushed as I am not a celebrity struck person but as a goaltender when I got to get watched and get pointers (and compliments) from Patrick Roy, I was cool as a cucumber and took it all in stride...until I was driving home in my truck. Same idea if Imwas getting coached by a professional driver. I would probably make the most of it at the time and then later keep reliving the moment.