Track Attack #8, CTMP (Mosport) Aug 6, 2014...The 90 Minute Enduro

[Bruce H.]

I was back at the track to focus on a couple of things I thought I could improve in my driving. I’ve built a lot of confidence over the last 3.5 months of driving and tracking it, and now that I’m there, and lap times have really improved, further gains are going to have to come from improved driving. The areas I’m working on are:

-looking further ahead
-using lower gears to provide harder acceleration exiting corners
-brake later, harder, and get back onto the throttle quicker

It was another 6th Gear open lapping day, open only to advanced drivers, but unfortunately it was fully booked. They did however allow me to come at 3 pm, as they knew some cars would have started packing up by then. That was the case, but it’s a bit tricky going out cold onto a track with guys that have been warming up all day and have become both very fast, and in some cases, quite aggressive. I needed to warm up my brain and tires quickly.

I’m not sure the brain ever quite got there, and the tires seemed to take quite a while also. I reduced pressures to 26 psi cold to allow for initial increase from heating, pitting three times to check and reduce ever-increasing pressure. I settled on 32 psi hot, half way between the 30 I had been running, and the 34 that Erich at SRT recommended I try with the Pirelli Corsas that come on the TA (and Track Pack optioned Vipers). I’m still on the originals, with the fronts worn almost down to the wear bars on the outside half of the tread face. Inside face definitely has more tread, showing that even more negative camber would be beneficial beyond the 2.5 degrees that the TA comes with. Erich recommended 2.7 to 2.8 to Venom V and myself at Homecoming, and VV has recently done just that. I will as well soon. Rear tires are barely worn, and might even out last a new set of fronts.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140808-00101_zps2de463ae.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140808-00101_zps2de463ae.jpg.html)

The car handled well, but different in a couple of ways this time around. Where I had been getting just a hint of push (understeer) going really hot into some tight corners, that was now completely gone, even though I was attacking the corners more aggressively I think. But instead I was getting the rear a bit loose, both under braking and throttle on exit. It may be that the Corsa’s grip is increasing as the tread wears down on the front, much like the Toyo RA1 R-compound that peaks when almost all tread is gone, but you might also expect the grip to be reduced from many track heat cycles and driving over 7000 miles. Either way I continue to be very impressed with this tire. The rears may have seemed to lose grip because the fronts had improved more relative to the rears, and my corner speeds increased just enough to exceed their grip, or perhaps it’s got something to do with the extra 2 psi.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140808-00103_zpscad9f2d4.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140808-00103_zpscad9f2d4.jpg.html)

Further evidence of the tires maintaining their grip is the consistency of the car's peak G-Force recorded in the SRT function pages. I had reset it to zero on the way to the track and it then matched the same peak cornering grip as had been recorded in my first 7 track days at 1.5 g both left and right, and slightly improved in braking g's at 1.44g. That's awfully impressive considering the heavily worn front tires.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140808-00100_zps6823b616.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140808-00100_zps6823b616.jpg.html)

The other change to handling is that my rear wiggle under braking returned after vanishing 3 track days ago. The only change I can think of is the extra 2 psi. I continue to use “Track” ESC and “Race” damper modes. I’m back out on the 19th and will play with pressures a bit. I only notice it under extremely hard braking at very high speed, which is every 95 seconds or so at the end of the back straight at speeds a hair over 150 mph at times. Once I pitted to check tire pressures and brake pad smoke was wafting out between the spokes. Normally you do a cool down lap prior to pitting, and I usually do a slow lap around the paddock parking areas to have some moving air help cool them. Love the TA’s brakes, can’t fault them, but I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of needing to upgrade pads or fluid if I ever went with slicks and dramatically increased the braking loads. Brake pads miraculously still have close to a ½” of material left front and rear. That’s awesome considering what I’ve put them through!
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140808-00104_zps898e62fd.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140808-00104_zps898e62fd.jpg.html)

I really think many of you would be astonished just how fast and well-mannered the TA is on track, how dominating it is over most high performance cars, and how competitive it is with the best of the best… and I’m sure the same applies to the SRT and GTS models. An Aventadore is probably the only stock production car I’ve encountered so far that was as fast or faster on a straightaway. Both of these cars haul like they’re modded, and I at least know that the TA can go the distance running strong and cool. A well-driven new 911 GT3 (991) with every nanny known to man couldn't keep up. He raved about the DCT, it probably had CCB’s too, but while I respect the car and was truly happy for the man having found a car he enjoyed, the contrast in approach to performance just made me appreciate the Viper that much more.

I tested the Viper's endurance over a solid 90 minutes of continuous aggressive tracking, with only very quick stops to check tires and one 10 minute pit where they had to stop the whole track. Some Porsche driver ed/lapping days I've been to ran a 90 minute enduro, with a mandatory 5 minute break. That was a signiture and popular feature of their events, and my restricted track time at this event created that opportunity, and I pitted with only fumes left in the tank! Temps stayed well within the normal range, tire grip didn't become greasy from over-heating, and I didn't get fatigued at the wheel. I was so focused on getting the car and myself safely warmed up in a hurry that I basically didn’t spend much time working on my goals. On the break a woman on pit lane asked if she could go for a ride-along with me and I reluctantly agreed to it. It further distracted me, but it turned out she had won the day at the track in a contest, and I was happy to make it memorable. She said she had always wanted to go for a ride in a Viper…and I'm pretty sure I gave her one to remember!

The next event is on a smaller and safer track at Mosport, and I’ll be using that to hopefully get the car loose to practice driving on the limits of adhesion, and regaining control after exceeding them. Things could get a little messy, but exceeding the limits is an invaluable lesson in learning to drive within them. In September I'll have the pleasure of a private coaching day at Mosport with SRT team driver Kuno Wittmer. We'll be using data-logging to identify opportunities for improvement, and I plan to be as prepared as possible.

I was unable to upload an 8 minute video segment moving through traffic, but here it is broken into shorter segments. I'll post the link to the fix once I figure it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElNwecHk6mI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2GxW5TvcLc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSEeJAbgUrM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHNcSntss48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyMZ9pPGGG8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scPkIZNpA5Y

And just when I started to do a cool-down lap I noticed the event owner's full-on race car in my side mirror coming up behind and thought it's be nice to follow him for a moment. He then started his cool-down as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CQSkEzGeFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIW3L86Yvf8

Thanks for your interest, and thanks to our friends at SRT for their passion and daring in designing and building such an engaging, uncompromising and unapologetic driver’s car. I hope a lot more serious enthusiasts will discover the Gen V Viper in its natural habitat where it rules supreme! And if you don’t happen to need world-class supercar performance I think there’s still a pretty good chance you just might fall in love with this exotic for a very broad range of other good reasons!

Here's a once in a lifetime video comparison test by EVO magazine of some of the best analogue exotic supercars ever built. They share the Viper's same goals and virtues, all are magnificent, and all are wonderfully flawed. This look back really helps put today's Viper into perspective, and how it will become more appreciated into the future. My all-time favorite video review, and it's time very well-spent. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCpCbZaD8xc&feature=player_embedded&list=UUFwzOXPZKE6aH3fAU0d2Cyg

Bruce

[VENOM V]

Bruce,

As always great write up!

On looking further ahead: There were three takeaways from my last Ron Fellows lesson that really benefitted my driving, and looking further ahead (he calls it "visual scanning") was one of them. It's surprising how much smoother and more correct your line can be when you push yourself to do this. My tendency is to look at the apex I'm hitting so that I don't goof, but I found that I remember where that apex is. My instructor pounded it into my head to look further ahead, and use my peripheral vision to hit my turn-in point or apex. I have to remind myself to do this constantly, it isn't a natural tendency.

Other than their price these Corsas kick ass. My year-old Corsas were nearly worn out with about 6,000 miles and I think 5 or 6 track days on them last weekend when I tracked at Sears Point. But guess what? They still gripped like crazy. They didn't heat cycle out like the MPSCs had after only two hard track days. They appear to be great all the way down to cord. The MPSCs, however, were hard and would skip rather than slide when the ass-end would step out. Not the Corsas. It's a shame I hadn't gone to a more aggressive alignment earlier because my Corsas wore out on the outer edges in the front. The first time I tracked on them I had -1.5 degrees front camber, then -2.0 for the next 4 track days, and finally -2.8 degrees last weekend. If I had the -2.8 setting since the beginning, my tires would have been good for at least 3 more track days. I'll write up the event after my buddy that was behind me sends me a video of an anxious moment on the track.

Interesting that the nervous rear end behavior returned. Ben Keating thinks it's from the rear diff. I still haven't experienced it for the last few track events, it behaves very well.

Coaching from Kuno, man that would be sooo cool. What a chance of a lifetime to get tips from someone as world class as Kuno, and a master behind the wheel of a Viper.
Again, great write up! Keep 'em coming! :drive:

[Bruce H.]

Thanks, Todd. Looking ahead isn't natural despite knowing you should, and having years on track to implement it. I realized I was doing it in certain corners where I had good visibility, and not in others. Some places you just can't see ahead because the corners are blind or hidden behind walls. I do know though from watching videos that I do very little steering correction, other than a tiny tightening that is desirable at the slowest point in the corner, so my eyes can't be focused off too far. The reason I wanted to focus on that this time is because Kuno mentioned it as one of the things he'd be looking for when coaching, and something he constantly reminds himself to do. One of those things to constantly work to improve I guess. I know I'm also scanning for signs of fluids on track, which can't be seen looking too far ahead.

I think I'll try to get my alignment done this week to help a bit with the wear, but .3 isn't likely to make a lot of difference in my case. I'd need to reverse them on the rims to balance out the wear, and the design doesn't allow for that. The only solution is to street drive it more and track less...maybe in my next life :smilielol:

Looking forward to your thread!

[Bruce H.]

Took the car in for an oil change, brake bleed, CEL and some other work.

The TA rotors have become so hot that the steel has hardened...that's the streaks on the front rotor. Rears are fine. How are others making out with the TA brakes, or StopTechs on the Track Pack and GTS cars on the track?

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140813-00108_zps40e154a3.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140813-00108_zps40e154a3.jpg.html)

The TA brake pads are extremely durable on the track. Front new pad thickness vs my original pads with over 7000 miles and 8 track days for reference...only about 1/8" of pad thickness worn. Rear pads worn less. I'm used to a set of stock pads lasting 1-3 track days, depending on track. How are others with Stop Tech and TP/GTS brakes making out on the track?

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140813-00113_zps587b7d0c.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140813-00113_zps587b7d0c.jpg.html)

I've mentioned scraping my splitter under extreme braking into two different right hand corners. It turns out it is the stock wheel well deflectors, with my left one ground down a half inch compared to the right! These are not supposed to have been installed in any car supplied with the Advanced Aero front splitters according to Erich of SRT. Mine have now been removed. Maybe the car can be lowered for track use afterall???

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140813-00118_zps9f1e8d51.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140813-00118_zps9f1e8d51.jpg.html)

I had the rear knuckle support installed on both sides. This prevents the wheel from causing additional damage if the knuckle breaks due to an impact on the street or track.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140813-00111_zpsa043d653.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140813-00111_zpsa043d653.jpg.html)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140813-00114_zps89c93bf2.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140813-00114_zps89c93bf2.jpg.html)

Front tires are almost down to the wear bars but I think they've got maybe two more days left on them before the cords show on the shoulders. Either way that's when they'll come off and new fronts go on. Rears are still perfect.

I had a Check Engine Light (CEL) come on at the track and put the engine into "limp mode" (no power). It eventually cleared and the car felt almost normal, but down a bit on power i thought. A stored code indicated a defective O2 sensor which was replaced under warranty. This could explain why my lap times didn't improve on this day, and hopefully they will now that I've got full power back.

I also have the engine hood weatherstripping coming away like others. Apparently the carbon fiber hood nneded to be cleaned of residue better for these self stick strips to adhere. New ones on order.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/IMG-20140813-00120_zpsc0f94241.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/IMG-20140813-00120_zpsc0f94241.jpg.html)

[Vprbite]

I love to hear that the TA is taking it to the nanny cars and all the people who like to tell us our cars are uncontrollable monsters (I had an 02 and now an 06, so unfortunately I am not a member of the Gen V TA club yet, but you know what I mean) and out there taking a track and putting it over a barrel. I like to think of these beasts like my German Shepherd. Spend the time and effort and train him right and he is great with kids and can go anywhere in public and my friends love him, but try and break into my house uninvited and he will put you in your place. Though, had I treated him wrong, he woulda bit me. Same thing with these cars. They can be driven on the street to a nice dinner with your wife in the car and then out on the track it will stop anyone from comin at ya. Must be so great for you as a driver to show those computer driven cars whats up.

Congrats on your improvements at the track. Sounds like you have specific goals to work on and the right people to work on them with. I am nowhere near your level of track experience. I am definitely still in the novice stage in my opinion. I feel like I know enough to know how little I really know. I really need to put in some more time. After one track day, I could see the wear in my Pilot Super Sports. I love the feel of the tires but perhaps they are too soft for real track use.

Interesting on the brakes getting hot like that. I didn't realize the TA brakes weren't the same as the TrackPak brakes. I would think they were the same or better. I had StopTechs on the 02 and loved em. People warned me that StopTechs have a tendency to overheat and fade but I never had a problem. Perhaps our cars having so much torque means we can use the engine braking more than most, therefor we don't work em as hard as a less torque-ey car? Effectively, torque is braking, right? At least that is how I always thought of it. What would you think would be your solution to the hot rotors? Drilled and slotted, 2 piece? I will be interested to see what works out for you on that front.

Love the vids. Everyone must hate seein you comin up behind them like you are hunting them. Awesome job representing the Viper and the TA out there. Please let us know how the session with Kuno goes. That's sounds so awesome. Good luck and I will be looking forward to more track videos. I think I can definitely learn something from them.

[Bruce H.]

The car really does play well with other quick cars on track, but I get more satisfaction out of improving my driving as measured by lap times than who I pass. More money buys more speed, so it should be quick, but I will admit to being particularly happy when I make a well-driven 911 GT3/RS my bitch. Some I can...others I never will.

The TA brake rotors and pads are an upgrade from the Track Pack's. My Viper Tech, Garron on the forum who also crew chiefs for a Viper team, explained that hardening of rotors is the norm when tracking hard or racing. It has a slight effect on the brakes efficiency, but not something to be concerned with unless I want to change the rotors every couple of track days! I don't and won't.

Always happy to share the joy of tracking the Gen V. It may not check off everyone's "wish list" of power and features, but it checks off all the ones it needs to be an exceptional track day car at a price that can only be described as a screaming bargain when its other street car attributes are considered. Hopefully others will share their track experiences also!

[TrackratViper]

Bruce;

Where did you purchase the knuckle supports and how difficult were they to install?

Thx for the nice writeup

[Bruce H.]

They were suggested, supplied and installed by Garron at my servicing dealership. Very quick and easy once the wheel is off. I bet Jon B at Parts Rack could fix you up.

[bayviper]

Very interesting read, thanks! I'm going to my first track event with the T/A this weekend, 8/23/2014.

[Bruce H.]

Very interesting read, thanks! I'm going to my first track event with the T/A this weekend, 8/23/2014.

That's awesome Andy. I just hope you won't feel any pressure to be super fast right off the bat. I mean, put it right out of your mind that the TA is the fastest production car in the world, and it won't necessarily mean you suck as a driver if you're not the fastest around that track in the the fastest production car in the world. Never mind that everyone that passes you will have it on video and uploaded onto youtube that they made the fastest production car in the world their bitch. And one last thing, I'm not sure if you know this but the fastest TA of them all are the black ones.

No pressure :smilielol:

(Have fun!)

[bayviper]

That's awesome Andy. .

.....

No pressure :smilielol:

(Have fun!)

My number one goal is to not bring the car home on a trailer. :)

6372

[Bruce H.]

You and me both. At least getting a pass-by signal shouldn't be a problem for you...that's one very intimidating looking TA! I think my number two goal is not grabbing 1st when upshifting from 2nd :slap:

[Vprbite]

You and me both. At least getting a pass-by signal shouldn't be a problem for you...that's one very intimidating looking TA! I think my number two goal is not grabbing 1st when upshifting from 2nd :slap:

Not that I am in any place to give you advice, but perhaps a suggestion. I have trained myself (and always explain it to anyone I let drive the car), palm on the shift ball, pull back to second. Then, when hand goes to shift ball, be it immediate or after a section of track, palm on the shift ball and point the 4 fingers toward the passenger. It's a little exaggerated, but if I train myself to do that, when I am really grabbing gears, I have the muscle memory not to want to cheat towards the left. When people "pistol grip" the shifter is when they tend to pull inwards towards 1st or 2nd. Obviously, on the track you gotta be rowing good and fast, but I just find that over-exaggerating that movement trains me for when I am really rowing through the gears.

Just a thought. Maybe it helps.

[Bruce H.]

Ralph suggested pushing the lever forward from 2nd with an open palm, letting the centering spring move it over, and the palm to take it the rest of the way to third. He demonstrated it with fingers pointing up. Worth trying both to see which each driver prefers.

[Magnus]

I've had the pleasure of sharing the track with Kuno.

He's an insanely good driver. To receive feedback from him at any level would be amazing.

- Keith@HPTuners