Prefix aquires Arrow Racing Engines

[01sapphirebob]

Hot off the release of the Madusa vert Prefix announced today via Facebook that they have aquired Arrow racing engines! Stay tuned for more updates as they become available.

[FLATOUT]

Very interesting, is Prefix becoming FCA's AMG division?

[ViperTony]

Interesting but unless this acquisition produces fruit I'm not holding my breath. Maybe this will cause the release of the GenV PCM to happen sooner rather than later.

[FLATOUT]

Interesting but unless this acquisition produces fruit I'm not holding my breath. Maybe this will cause the release of the GenV PCM to happen sooner rather than later.

That's my hope, Arrow has had them sitting on their shelf ready to ship to a select few dealers now for over a month. Who knows it's a cluster F.

[donk_316]

I saw your tweet about this.

20 bucks says the ECUs were out on hold until after the sale. These things just don't happen over a cup of coffee and a 20 min conversation. This has been in the works for months if not longer.

[daytonprowler]

That's my hope, Arrow has had them sitting on their shelf ready to ship to a select few dealers now for over a month. Who knows it's a cluster F.

Yep. Now that cat is out of the bag..... It was supposed to be announced at the VOA Homecoming Sunday dinner before the door prize was drawn.

Also, the first one was supposed to be donated and auctioned off that very evening. BUT you can thank the previous club for their screaming and yelling "that's not fair" mentality. It's always something with them to try and spoil a really great thing for the Viper community.

[BlknBlu]

Great news, Then I take it Dodge is the loop on the aquisition?

Bruce

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Arrow and Prefix have been joint-marketing within the Viper world for several years now. Great companies, both. I suspect its not a 100% acquisition (yet) and I also suspect that it wont cause the elusive G5 PCM to magically appear any faster -or slower- than it eventually will. Such is the hisssstory of MPP parts for Vipers!

[FLATOUT]

LOL their (Prefix) social media person is actually very good, and seems to be responsive so I thought I would throw it at him to see if I could get anything out of them lol.

And I agree I hope that this was the only thing holding them up. I'm excited about the purchase and like how involved Prefix has become recently. I hope it leads to even more support for the Viper going forward.


I saw your tweet about this.

20 bucks says the ECUs were out on hold until after the sale. These things just don't happen over a cup of coffee and a 20 min conversation. This has been in the works for months if not longer.

[ViperSmith]

the title messed me up, i was wondering "who cares if they bought a few engines"

[Anonymous]

Does this mean special vipers like the convertible,maybe special engines!

[Thawk97]

Yeah - curious how much Chrysler knows/cares about all of Prefix's recent decisions (I know Prefix said Chrysler didn't know about the Vert, but that's hard to believe - potentially biting the hand that feeds you or screwing yourself if they start offering a factory convertible) and how that may impact the future of Viper (if at all).

[VYPR BYT]

Yeah - curious how much Chrysler knows/cares about all of Prefix's recent decisions (I know Prefix said Chrysler didn't know about the Vert, but that's hard to believe - potentially biting the hand that feeds you or screwing yourself if they start offering a factory convertible) and how that may impact the future of Viper (if at all).

No way they'd be screwing themselves... they're not building any type of assembly line to do it. Just treating it like any other custom job they would do for somebody with the bucks. They're capitalizing on a niche market, that's all.
If anything, Chrysler would be happy about it since it can potentially move a few more 13's/14's that have been sitting.

Bob, interesting news.

[Shooter]

I bet they build an ACR. Hell, Gen IV ACR's came from Prefix anyways. :)

[Thawk97]

I bet they build an ACR. Hell, Gen IV ACR's came from Prefix anyways. :)

Is there a history there I don't know about? What do you mean?

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Companies like Pre-Fix, Arrow Racing Engines, Saleen Racing and Roush Racing have been heavily involved as sub contractors to Chrysler's Viper division for years. Mergers and acquisitions happen and make sense at times too.. Both good company's, so together makes for a better solution maybe..

[J TNT]

Will be interesting to see what the end game is , sounds like a win ,win :)

[Simms]

At this past weekends NARRA event, I got to talk to Lee about the PCM for a while. He is a great guy, and really cool to hear some of his stories. I still got the feeling that the release (or should I say delay) is a legal issue, but supposed to have happen real soon (as Randall referred to). It sounds like it will be available through select dealers and not straight from Arrow. Even part of some performance packages in the works.

Arrow was kind enough to have a Gen V there (thanks to Viperexchange) with the PCM and exhaust available to drive/check out. The car sounded AWESOME!! It had American Racing Headers, high flow cats, and AR exhaust. If it was already available, I would have busted out the credit card immediately!

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I was able to drive that G5 PCM in a NARRA G5 GTS Pace Car at Watkins Glen with non-other than Dick Winkles in the right seat. He was actively programming the exhaust note you now LOVE on his in-car laptop! We actually demo-ed the note to 40 Syracuse Corvette Club owners who we paced on parade laps. They parked on the front straight, and we "decelerated/burbled by" and then Dick asked em their thoughts on the sound..... It was echoing off the wall, and sounded GREAT even by V8 standards.

When we staged for the laps, Dick looked in his side-mirror and commented "Kinda scary for a Dodge guy to see 40+ vettes so close in the mirror!"

"We are giving customers what they want" Dick said, in development programming for a better sound.....

Unfortunately, HE had the PCM ready.... the lawyers and Feds aren't as capable....



At this past weekends NARRA event, I got to talk to Lee about the PCM for a while. He is a great guy, and really cool to hear some of his stories. I still got the feeling that the release (or should I say delay) is a legal issue, but supposed to have happen real soon (as Randall referred to). It sounds like it will be available through select dealers and not straight from Arrow. Even part of some performance packages in the works.

Arrow was kind enough to have a Gen V there (thanks to Viperexchange) with the PCM and exhaust available to drive/check out. The car sounded AWESOME!! It had American Racing Headers, high flow cats, and AR exhaust. If it was already available, I would have busted out the credit card immediately!

[2010.Blue.White.ACR]

Is there a history there I don't know about? What do you mean?

Prefix puts all the aero parts on the ACRs

[cashcorn]

JonB, did Winkles have any type of update on the release..

[ViperTony]

In April, Ralph attended our luncheon in NYC. He was excited. He showed us dyno sheets resulting from the new PCM. I saw dyno sheets ranging from just under 600rwhp to over 600rwhp including some dyno sheets showing exhaust/header mods. It was impressive. When we asked as to when this would be available he said two weeks but it was out of his control. There are many GenV owners waiting for this PCM. I hope it sees the light of day.

[Simms]

I have to say, I loved the decel burbling.


I was able to drive that G5 PCM in a NARRA G5 GTS Pace Car at Watkins Glen with non-other than Dick Winkles in the right seat. He was actively programming the exhaust note you now LOVE on his in-car laptop! We actually demo-ed the note to 40 Syracuse Corvette Club owners who we paced on parade laps. They parked on the front straight, and we "decelerated/burbled by" and then Dick asked em their thoughts on the sound..... It was echoing off the wall, and sounded GREAT even by V8 standards.

When we staged for the laps, Dick looked in his side-mirror and commented "Kinda scary for a Dodge guy to see 40+ vettes so close in the mirror!"

"We are giving customers what they want" Dick said, in development programming for a better sound.....

Unfortunately, HE had the PCM ready.... the lawyers and Feds aren't as capable....

[Troublemaker]

Is there a way that the merger could be some sort of, Roush, Saleen, AMG type configuration? I am curious if this type of dynamic allows for a performance contractor to build products a manufacturer never could. I don't know how the EPA legal BS works, but is this a way to make something happen that Chrysler could never accomplish because of Legal issues?

[XSnake]

This is interesting

[sparkrn]

What is the legal issue everyone eludes to? It's just a car part. " Build it and they will come".

[01sapphirebob]

What is the legal issue everyone eludes to? It's just a car part. " Build it and they will come".

Nobody knows what the legal issue is just that there is most likely a legal issue that is/was holding up the release of a GEN V PCM

[Troublemaker]

Let's face it, any time you know something exists but only here rumors, nothing is definite, and it's all hush hush, Its either legal issues or it's the government. This seems to be an equal mix of both.

[FLATOUT]

Let's face it, any time you know something exists but only here rumors, nothing is definite, and it's all hush hush, Its either legal issues or it's the government. This seems to be an equal mix of both.

And a massive dose of bad business thrown in for good measure.

[cashcorn]

Who knows.... We do know that it's been roughly 4 months since Ralph said it was to be released. Still an awesome car after 4 months for me though, just ready for some exhaust upgrades and possible tuning(Paxton down the road someday!hehehe..).

[FLATOUT]

The Gen V ECU's were shipped out to HPTuners today so if Dodge won't do it someone else will.

[Troublemaker]

The Gen V ECU's were shipped out to HPTuners today so if Dodge won't do it someone else will.

I honestly don't think it's worth their trouble to do it their eyes. Why take any of the liability on themselves, I think they were hoping for the aftermarket to pick up the ball all along. With Ralph in a new position there, I honestly don't think he can make much happen anymore and the new guy will jump on whatever bandwagon pads his bonus. He just doesn't seem like a car guy to me, but I have only watched videos and have never met him.

[mjorgensen]

I honestly don't think it's worth their trouble to do it their eyes. Why take any of the liability on themselves, I think they were hoping for the aftermarket to pick up the ball all along. With Ralph in a new position there, I honestly don't think he can make much happen anymore and the new guy will jump on whatever bandwagon pads his bonus. He just doesn't seem like a car guy to me, but I have only watched videos and have never met him.


The new guy (Tim) is a car guy, just a different one then Ralph is, and the hold up is no longer a regulation thing it is more of an ownership thing with the lawyers. There are other reasons in play and I hope for everyones benefit the whole program moves forward instead of being further bogged down. There will be even bigger things ahead once the whoe thing is finally pushed ahead one way or another.

[bluesrt]

No way they'd be screwing themselves... they're not building any type of assembly line to do it. Just treating it like any other custom job they would do for somebody with the bucks. They're capitalizing on a niche market, that's all.
If anything, Chrysler would be happy about it since it can potentially move a few more 13's/14's that have been sitting.

Bob, interesting news.

i bet that dodge has prefix doing these verts to get rid of alot of the 13-14 cars, after they are gone, dodge will produce a factory vert and prefix will no longer,dodge cant run the allready built cars back through as a vert,prefix can custom one though

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

What is the legal issue everyone eludes to? It's just a car part. " Build it and they will come".

I no longer think 'the issue' is at play, and may even be solved. Not a factor. There are now other factors. The original elusive issue that is/was being alluded to is this:

"Off Road Use Only" for an accessory part that [possibly] violates the emission standards of the 2013-2014 Federal emissions certification of the 2013-14-15 Motor. May also violate certain State emissions. YES, we all know that other products have been / are sold by Chrysler-Dodge before now for "Off Road Use"....... but that was all parts offered-sold prior to FIAT. It took longer to 'splain it to the new guys is my guess. I think they understand now, but other issues may be at play.

For example, one might surmise that the '4-5 dealers only' point of sale could be a factor? We can all think of 10+ other (excluded?) Dodge Dealers that might be annoyed... And Nothing prevents those 4-5 (or 1-2) from doing a private-label 'HP Tuner' solution on their own, does it?

[XSnake]

I no longer think 'the issue' is at play, and may even be solved. Not a factor. There are now other factors. The original elusive issue that is/was being alluded to is this:

"Off Road Use Only" for an accessory part that [possibly] violates the emission standards of the 2013-2014 Federal emissions certification of the 2013-14-15 Motor. May also violate certain State emissions. YES, we all know that other products have been / are sold by Chrysler-Dodge before now for "Off Road Use"....... but that was all parts offered-sold prior to FIAT. It took longer to 'splain it to the new guys is my guess. I think they understand now, but other issues may be at play.

For example, one might surmise that the '4-5 dealers only' point of sale could be a factor? We can all think of 10+ other (excluded?) Dodge Dealers that might be annoyed... And Nothing prevents those 4-5 (or 1-2) from doing a private-label 'HP Tuner' solution on their own, does it?
Why would Chrysler limit the sale of the ECU? Any Viper authorized dealer should be allowed to sell it. Only the "good" dealers will be installing this for the customers that don't feel comfortable doing it themselves. If Chrysler wants to limit the sale of parts then they should really look at scaling back at the # of incompetent dealers allowed to sell the car in the first place. That's half of the sales problem anyways.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

i bet that dodge has prefix doing these verts to get rid of alot of the 13-14 cars, after they are gone, dodge will produce a factory vert and prefix will no longer,dodge cant run the allready built cars back through as a vert,prefix can custom one though



You don't believe this was a PREFIX / Tomball ~ Viper Exchange project as announced? I think this helps Tomball sell up to 10 of their currently allocated-owned G5 cars...not necessarily selling any more 'surplus' G5s for Dodge until/unless Tomball sells all 10... This is a specialty car for a FEW.....not a way to move 'a lot of surplus' for Dodge. marking the [already-expensive] G5 UP by $35K wont move a lot of surplus...

[bluesrt]

for vert owners that are crying for one it will, and move old inventory for a possible factory made pull the rabbit out of the hat vert. lol / i think only a select few cars will be cut into a prefix vert, the less desireable ones if ya know what i mean to thin inventory a bit.. yes i believe it was a prefix/tomball/viper exchange project- but dodge im shure sat at the table upon conversation of this,somebody

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Why would Chrysler limit the sale of the ECU? Any Viper authorized dealer should be allowed to sell it. Only the "good" dealers will be installing this for the customers that don't feel comfortable doing it themselves. ........


Exactly! Why Indeed?! [As with limiting sales thru only 4-5 dealers as originally announced elsewhere on this site.] Which is why I suspect there are other factors at play in the latest round of delays.

[TrackAire]

Yeah - curious how much Chrysler knows/cares about all of Prefix's recent decisions (I know Prefix said Chrysler didn't know about the Vert, but that's hard to believe - potentially biting the hand that feeds you or screwing yourself if they start offering a factory convertible) and how that may impact the future of Viper (if at all).

Your remark about "biting the hand that feeds you" has an interesting side story. If there is no hand feeding you, what do you have to lose by moving forward? Maybe Arrow found out that there is no more contract for future V10 rebuilds. Maybe Prefix has no commitment for Vipers after 2015. Both of these situations are blows to both companies, so the decision to sell Arrow to Prefix makes sense to both companies since Chrysler may be leaving them without future business.

After listening to the owner of Prefix give his speech and listening to Ben Keating talk at the Prefix visit, I'm positive that these two guys are out to get it done on their own with the convertible and new accessories and upgrades. They did this on their own...even once Chrysler found out about the convertible they didn't want to acknowledge that they knew about it. The way SRT reacted when they saw the convertible reminds me of the following clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PWXTjxTTe8

So here is my prediction.....Prefix and Ben Keating will be continue working on the Viper platform in the form of mods, body kits, suspension upgrades, convertibles and now with Arrow, custom and rebuilt engines. I see the owner of Prefix as somebody that will get the job done. In the near future, Prefix will be the "go to" place to send your Gen 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 Viper for body and paint replacement, suspension and brake upgrades, motor work or custom vehicles very much like Brabus does, etc. If the Viper platform is to end after 2015, then there will be a new interest in the Viper platform just like there is now for out of production Porsche's, Jag's, Mercedes Benz, American muscle cars, etc. Prefix has the talent, facilities and most importantly the financial capability to make this happen. Now we have to wait and see if I'm correct.

[mikesax]

Haven't seen Sgt. Schultz in years-THANX for the "bite"!! Prefix and Keating know a "HELL OF ALOT MORE" than all of us as to what the future of the Viper might hold! Who knows when the 2015 production will commence-what minimal changes are in store-and at what lays beyond!! These are "VERY SMART" and the most "WELL INFORMED" agents of Chrysler-their "investments" are made with "the best knowledge" available of what the future might hold at this point in time!! IMO the more they diversify their product line-the more they feel the NEED to for their future profits-because the CURRENT situation DOES NOT have the PROFIT POTENTIAL their businesses need!!















"

[mjorgensen]

Why would Chrysler limit the sale of the ECU? Any Viper authorized dealer should be allowed to sell it. Only the "good" dealers will be installing this for the customers that don't feel comfortable doing it themselves. If Chrysler wants to limit the sale of parts then they should really look at scaling back at the # of incompetent dealers allowed to sell the car in the first place. That's half of the sales problem anyways.

The main reason for the planned limited distribution was to control the install and registration of the PCM's. There were tons of problems with unqualified dealers and re-sellers selling them a Gen4 PCM and then messing up the install. This headache became one man’s problem and it was a huge one... You cannot sell the PCM overseas, have it installed incorrectly and then expect to have it all fixed for free because the installer did not know what they were doing, you cannot sell them “pre-installed” with the premise that the buyer can install it themselves either, the DEALER has to install it "and do it correctly". Even I have received dozens of calls because of these problems and I didn't even sell them. These dealers and owners just wanted me to use our connections to fix the problems someone else created (although it was expressly indicated that there was NO warranty on the off road MOPAR parts), so that is the thinking behind the limited sales options.

There are other reasons, but those plans will be discussed when the appropriate parties decide to talk about them.

On a side note, most of what has been theorized here and other places about the Prefix/Arrow merger are wrong, but I cannot offer any explanations at this point, just confirm that all is well for both companies and its business as usual.