46 Vipers sold in July

[VRYALT3R3D]

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/dodge-viper-sales-figures.html

[Viper vince]

I wonder how many are still left over from 2013,2014? When are they planning to start making the 2015's? I can bet you can get a great deal on these cars at this time.

[Policy Limits]

Funny how certain dealers were bragging about selling at msrp a year ago. Lol. Even funnier how those who complained about price aren't buying now at wholesale

[Bruce H.]

I personally think it was a mistake to take the high-end SRT Viper and brand it a Dodge. They designed, built and priced the new Viper to compete among premium and exclusive brands, that's why SRT was born, and it's a shame somebody thought it should be the halo car for Dodge again. Kind of hurts the car's image to those it was supposed to appeal to now. When did it become a Dodge...May/June? Also, plant shutdown news and slow sales reports would have caused some buyer anxiety.

[FLATOUT]

It became a Dodge in 1992, and the buyers they thought they would attract never came. Why not go back to marketing that has worked in past?

I think it's cool that I own an SRT since it was only a two year branding, but it will be an interesting bit of Viper trivia 30 years from now.

[Newport Viper]

Canada only bought 4? What the? Snowing already?

Maybe they should cut the top off of it... oh wait...

[SLViper]

I personally think it was a mistake to take the high-end SRT Viper and brand it a Dodge. They designed, built and priced the new Viper to compete among premium and exclusive brands, that's why SRT was born, and it's a shame somebody thought it should be the halo car for Dodge again. Kind of hurts the car's image to those it was supposed to appeal to now. When did it become a Dodge...May/June? Also, plant shutdown news and slow sales reports would have caused some buyer anxiety.

The mistake was adding 20 more HP, Ferrari interior, a few electronic creature comforts and tacking on 30-40K! All while trying to convince "smarter more upscale buyers" it wasn't a "Dodge" Viper.

[FLATOUT]

The mistake was adding 20 more HP, Ferrari interior, a few electronic creature comforts and tacking on 30-40K! All while trying to convince "smarter more upscale buyers" it wasn't a "Dodge" Viper.

Well said, and being an ACR owner at the time nothing got me excited to buy until I the TA came out, and the fact that it was priced right. If the TA was priced at 130k I'd be in a Lambo or R8 right now (and not as happy as I am now).

[05Commemorative]

when was the last time Viper marketing worked? 2005? remember, the Gen4's sold terribly as well. It has been a long time. I applaud them for trying something different and I for one am super glad my car does not say Dodge on it anywhere, but then again, never been a fan of anything Dodge other than the Viper.

It became a Dodge in 1992, and the buyers they thought they would attract never came. Why not go back to marketing that has worked in past?

I think it's cool that I own an SRT since it was only a two year branding, but it will be an interesting bit of Viper trivia 30 years from now.

[Lawrenzo]

I contributed to the continuation of the Viper- time for the fence sitters to scoop up the remaining ones now that the market pricing is more realistic.

[ViperSmith]

I wonder if so few are being moved because everyone expects $40k off sticker and dealers aren't willing to wiggle much below invoice at the moment and are telling people to pound sand. Perhaps the big deals are drying up?

[Coloviper]

Judging by those numbers and per capita, way to go Canada over the past two years. That us awesome.

Newport, not sure what "late Canadian numbers" show in that report prove. I personally know more than four Canadians who bought new in that month. Sounds like a typical Southern California response. Better question is where are all the sales for Cali? You guys use to buy that number per month in years past.

Considering they only built about 1,350 cars between 2013 and 2014 and looking at these numbers, there is probably about 350 still on lots. Still too high and a new 15' car without major HP or major option changes or factory vert option will not improve that number. But it is selling. If they could average 46 cars per month, that would be awesome. 500 cars a year is still a respectable number. Though if they limit it to less in production it helps the supply and demand curve.

[Viper vince]

I was just on cars .com and they have about 542 new vipers on there. If I were looking for one I think you could use this as a good bargaining point. I wonder how long Dodge will built this in 2015?

[FLATOUT]

I contributed to the continuation of the Viper- time for the fence sitters to scoop up the remaining ones now that the market pricing is more realistic.

This.

[I Bin Therbefor]

Another site is reporting CEO Tim as asking, "what will take for us to go from 50 cars to a 100 a month, because at 50 this car will not make it ". So, it appears that the profit point for Viper is 1200 cars a year. IMO the traditional Viper buyer can not support 100 cars a year. I would hold that the T/A is the traditional Viper buyer's car, that buyer is wanting lower price, more hp and a programmable PCM, and maybe a convertible. Still not going to make 100 per month.
When Team Viper was working to re-introduce the Viper they asked non-traditional buyers why they did not consider a Viper, the answer was fit, finish and fear. The GTS was intended to answer those concerns. What appeared to be missing from the GTS was, an AT of some sort and a convertible. These non-traditional buyers were to be marketed via the racing program.
So, my suggestion for the immediate future is an AT of some sort and a convertible. Long term, a new chassis to permit repackaging for better seating/foot well, heat control and a better marketing program emphasizing the GTS. For the engine, DI should do the trick of greater hp, and a PCM that enables Team Viper to some fancy tuning of the flexibility that the DI will give.

[Bruce H.]

Another site is reporting CEO Tim as asking, "what will take for us to go from 50 cars to a 100 a month, because at 50 this car will not make it ". So, it appears that the profit point for Viper is 1200 cars a year. IMO the traditional Viper buyer can not support 100 cars a year.

I wouldn't expect Tim to have told the guy quoted standing next to him at Homecoming anything very accurate, and certainly not what his break even volume is. That sounds more like something said to stimulate the discussion of how to improve sales with an enthusiast...nothing more. Break even could be 40 cars /month for all we really know, and whether that is achieved may not even ultimately determine the future of their halo car. I think the only thing we can be sure of is that it isn't 100 units/month, and that if Tim had a number in mind the guy standing next to him at the event would be among the last to know.

[TrackAire]

I wouldn't expect Tim to have told the guy quoted standing next to him at Homecoming anything very accurate, and certainly not what his break even volume is. That sounds more like something said to stimulate the discussion of how to improve sales with an enthusiast...nothing more. Break even could be 40 cars /month for all we really know, and whether that is achieved may not even ultimately determine the future of their halo car. I think the only thing we can be sure of is that it isn't 100 units/month, and that if Tim had a number in mind the guy standing next to him at the event would be among the last to know.


I was standing and listening to a conversation that one of my friends was having with Tim at the museum. My gut reading of Tim was he doesn't say much, not an overly dynamic person, but what he does say he says purposefully. Although I would have loved him to get up on the second floor and address the Viper crowd with some passion as to why the Viper platform was special, that he will fight for it to continue, he did not. I truly feel that if Tim is not in agreement with something, he is not the type of personality to talk B.S. to appease anybody. From my talks with others at Dodge from 3 years ago, 100 units per month would have been the low end of the market plan (assuming the platform was to grow and evolve to support the cost of designing future generations of the Viper)

One of my concerns with the low volume is not just the profitability of the platform as a whole, but how long suppliers will stick with Dodge for the smaller production numbers. A lot of the suppliers may not be able to supply the smaller numbers without substantial increases in product cost. You saw Prefix......if they don't have enough Vipers per month, they won't be able to support their facility and employee costs. Either they have to raise the cost to paint each Viper or move on to some other project. From listening to some of the people giving the tour, times are a little uncertain regarding their future with the Viper platform. Same goes for the motor foundry, transmission manufacturer, interior manufacturers, etc.
They all need a minimum number per month to keep their doors open. The SRT guys are still struggling with supplier issues because when Chrysler went bankrupt they burned a lot of supplier relationships.

[Bruce H.]

It really would have been nice for him, or anyone, to say something like that. When it was under SRT there was never a question about their commitment to the program. And I'm not entirely sure the fate of the Viper rests solely in Tim's hands. The Viper is a very significant car in Chrysler's recent history, a value to Fiat, a platform that could share technology and efficiencies with Ferrari, and its parts (CCB, DCT, etc), and I've got to think there would be discussions beyond Dodge's management. Hopefully the suppliers have the ability to supplement their production with additional work from elsewhere.


I was standing and listening to a conversation that one of my friends was having with Tim at the museum. My gut reading of Tim was he doesn't say much, not an overly dynamic person, but what he does say he says purposefully. Although I would have loved him to get up on the second floor and address the Viper crowd with some passion as to why the Viper platform was special, that he will fight for it to continue, he did not. I truly feel that if Tim is not in agreement with something, he is not the type of personality to talk B.S. to appease anybody. From my talks with others at Dodge from 3 years ago, 100 units per month would have been the low end of the market plan (assuming the platform was to grow and evolve to support the cost of designing future generations of the Viper)

One of my concerns with the low volume is not just the profitability of the platform as a whole, but how long suppliers will stick with Dodge for the smaller production numbers. A lot of the suppliers may not be able to supply the smaller numbers without substantial increases in product cost. You saw Prefix......if they don't have enough Vipers per month, they won't be able to support their facility and employee costs. Either they have to raise the cost to paint each Viper or move on to some other project. From listening to some of the people giving the tour, times are a little uncertain regarding their future with the Viper platform. Same goes for the motor foundry, transmission manufacturer, interior manufacturers, etc.
They all need a minimum number per month to keep their doors open. The SRT guys are still struggling with supplier issues because when Chrysler went bankrupt they burned a lot of supplier relationships.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Another site is reporting CEO Tim as asking, "what will take for us to go from 50 cars to a 100 a month, because at 50 this car will not make it ". So, it appears that the profit point for Viper is 1200 cars a year.

1200 units a year is wishful thinking for the Viper. The Viper was never a good seller. The GT-R barely reaches 1200 units a year. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/nissan-gt-r-sales-figures.html The ZR1 didn't sell that well either.

[Chorps]

Canada only bought 4? What the? Snowing already?

Maybe they should cut the top off of it... oh wait...

4 would be inline with what the US sold at 46, since Canada's population is 10% of the U.S. population.

More interesting is the month of June, where the US sold 36 and Canada sold 21(!). If you look at 2014 for Canada, Viper sales are by far the best they have been in the last 4 years.

[Coloviper]

From meeting Tim at the 2014 Homecoming, I sure hope the future of Viper is not solely in his hands. That moment WAS the biggest letdown of the event. I was not impressed in him in the slightest. Zero personality! He seemed bothered to have even been there, having cancelled his vacation to do so. Personally, I was he would have stayed on vacation as he was a buzz kill.

Of course he doesn't say much as he is a scripted exec. If he was a man and had passion in his veins, he would have addressed the group which he could have done without committing to anything. He did not because it is not in him. I hope he is short lived in his position.

You would think he would know what it took to get to 100 units a month! Maybe connect with the core enthusiast again. He blew his chance at confidence.

Chrysler will have interesting times as I am not sure Sergio knows what he is doing either. I am sure Italy is now happy they have officially moved corporation to London, UK and bye, bye Italy. Over 100 years of history blown with the stroke of his pen. It is all an investment business run enterprise, no passion nor respect for history. Tim should do well in that heartless venture. Corporate America kills entrepreneurs and outliers. Ralph is more like the latter and feel bad for him to have that passion squashed by the corporate monster.

I will say this and I think this message needs to go to Tim, Russ, Grahamn and Sergio: F$&K with the Viper, disrespect it further, don't give it the tools it needs for success or kill it, it will be the last FCA vehicle you buy. It they keep it up and it WILL be the last FCA vehicle I will ever buy. Yah, I am one man or family but it all starts with one. Time for FCA to show some respect to the FCA owner. My personal impression of Tim from the weekend? Absolutely not impressed nor confident he will stand up for a single argument for the Viper. He would sooner it go away. Sergio just wants volume, volume, volume! His whole business model is extreme volume or death. Poor base money with huge sales bonus on top of that. Sorry that does not work for Viper or niche lines. He can take that Home Depot model and shove it. Won't work for niche lines.

I love the Viper but I do not feel the people in charge at FCA do. From the weekend, the owners, factory workers, engineers, technicians, and engineering/design management in the program love it and gave extreme passion. Must suck working for upper management execs like this.

[allans]

Coloviper, This is the most accurate explanation of the current and future issues Viper faces yet. If the "Right Management" is not on board the Viper is DEAD!. :(

[TwinVipers]

I wouldn't expect Tim to have told the guy quoted standing next to him at Homecoming anything very accurate, and certainly not what his break even volume is. That sounds more like something said to stimulate the discussion of how to improve sales with an enthusiast...nothing more. Break even could be 40 cars /month for all we really know, and whether that is achieved may not even ultimately determine the future of their halo car. I think the only thing we can be sure of is that it isn't 100 units/month, and that if Tim had a number in mind the guy standing next to him at the event would be among the last to know.

This is most likely true, but people do have a slip of tongue from time to time! I am that guy btw, and he asked me and my bud Paolo that question! Tim was super nice, polite and generous with his time. One thing he wasn't is passionate! All business! We had a nice 10 min chat while everyone was making a dash for the buffet lines lol..

[Viktimize]

The mistake was adding 20 more HP, Ferrari interior, a few electronic creature comforts and tacking on 30-40K! All while trying to convince "smarter more upscale buyers" it wasn't a "Dodge" Viper.

I wouldn't call it a mistake myself. If they hadn't made those upgrades, I am one person who would not have their old Viper for sale so I could step up to buy a new one. If I am getting the same garbage interior and ride quality and only getting a power bump to 750hp or whatever, what is my motivation to upgrade? I could just slap a blower or TT's on my Gen3 and have the same thing for less money.

[venum4u]

I wouldn't call it a mistake myself. If they hadn't made those upgrades, I am one person who would not have their old Viper for sale so I could step up to buy a new one. If I am getting the same garbage interior and ride quality and only getting a power bump to 750hp or whatever, what is my motivation to upgrade? I could just slap a blower or TT's on my Gen3 and have the same thing for less money.


This is why i declined to upgrade to a GEN IV from my GEN III. However i didn't hesitate trading in the GEN III for the GEN V GTS.

[mikesax]

Tremendous improvement in fit/finish/quality and the like from my gen 4 to my gen 5! Viper is now "WORLD CLASS" inside and out!!

[Bruce H.]

This is most likely true, but people do have a slip of tongue from time to time! I am that guy btw, and he asked me and my bud Paolo that question! Tim was super nice, polite and generous with his time. One thing he wasn't is passionate! All business! We had a nice 10 min chat while everyone was making a dash for the buffet lines lol..

Some people are harder to read than others, and hopefully Tim is, or will become, fully committed to the Viper. That was probably you guys I saw talking to him as I was chatting with Erich when the buffet dash started. Erich's a bonafide Viperholic, and an epic asset to the program. I wanted to talk with Tim as well, but it didn't happen. Thanks for sharing your impressions.

The future is always uncertain, and I'm just glad to see that Gen V owners are happily enjoying their cars now rather than dwelling on its future and rehashing/rebashing its past like so many. I'm done with that group. The best Viper ever is available right now at very attractive prices, I'm glad I jumped on it when I had the chance to buy a new one, and nothing in the Viper's future will change that, unless I trade up to a possible next Gen. Other forum members should get happy and do the same, whatever they drive. I'm headed back to the track on Wednesday for Track Attack #8, and the hopes of peeling back yet another layer of seemingly endless performance if my worn tires still have it in them!

[KB Viper]

those are pretty good numbers, that's 474 ytd or 67.7 cars per month or 812.5 annualized or a 20.8% increase in sales year over year (sold 643 last year). after a 3 year hiatus for a 100k+ american exotic i believe these types of number should be expected. problem is i still have at least 1 person a week ask me when they started making Vipers again, so what can SRT/Chrysler/Fiat do to fix this???? have a crackable/tunable pcm that will allow OWNERS to do as they wish with their car so we can market the car for them via youtube, race track, drag strip, and air strip roll race events since it's painfully obvious SRT can't market the car well on there own. just my .01

[Lawrenzo]

I received 2 emails yesterday from dealers that I had opted to "watch" pricing on their cars months ago. Both cars just sold. 1 was a 2013 track pack car, and the other was a yellow with gunmetal stripe 2014 GTS.

[I Bin Therbefor]

IMO, there are two items in the comments worthy of consideration:

Warning: the Viper will not stay in production at the present sales rate.

Question: what do you think is necessary to double the present sale rate of ~50 per month to ~100 per month?

My suggestions are based on attracting the non-traditional buyer. I am basing these suggestions on a perception on my part that the T/A is a pretty solid vehicle for the traditional buyer.

Non vehicle items:

Improve the entire ownership experience from marketing through buying (dealer experience) through ownership (maintenance). Focus on the GTS as a way of attracting the non-traditional buyer. Provide test rides!!!

Vehicle items:

An AT of some sort.

A convertible as part of the manufacturer's provided product line.

DI as a way of providing increased power.

Long range:

A new chassis for more flexibility in packaging, emphasizing cabin space, heat control, and exhaust drone elimination

[Newport Viper]

Vehicle items:

An AT of some sort.

A convertible as part of the manufacturer's provided product line.

DI as a way of providing increased power.



Well lets just hope the HellCat kills it sales wise and they slip some of that cash over the Vipers way....

[hmerrittiii]

I just bought a 2013 GTS and got $39K off

[hmerrittiii]

I was an auto dealer for 18 years in Palm Beach and all these executives have no clue or respect for what it takes to move vehicles. I just bought a new 2013 GTS and love it I was at a high end dealer and drove everything, and this car is awesome.

[I Bin Therbefor]

I was an auto dealer for 18 years in Palm Beach and all these executives have no clue or respect for what it takes to move vehicles. I just bought a new 2013 GTS and love it I was at a high end dealer and drove everything, and this car is awesome.

Please offer your insights on how to double the present sales volume of Vipers.

[FLATOUT]

I just bought a 2013 GTS and got $39K off

Congrats on the purchase!

[Boba Fett]

We had a nice 10 min chat while everyone was making a dash for the buffet lines lol..

Those buffet lines were complete bullshit and the speech should have been made after eating. I was starving and that food was nothing to write home about...

[Bill Pemberton]

Let's make sure we have our information correct , as we are making assumptions that birth perceptions that are not beneficial to the reality of the situation. Tim Kuniskis was not going on vacation, for one, he cancelled his plans to be at an unveiling of the Hellcat at the Mile High Nationals and instead be with the Viper faithful. Somehow folks expected him to come to the " Homecoming" festivities and have the same kind of passion as many are used to seeing from Ralph, and we all know many folks are quite passionate about the Viper but react much differently ( good example would be Dick Winkles who loves the Viper but is a fairly quiet individual). Like some of you I had a chance to chat with Tim at length and he came to the event mainly to listen to us, and that was what he did, reaching out to many to get their views. I understand how change is difficult for many to grasp after having a very open , energetic CEO in Ralph, but Tim made the effort to come to our party, made last minute changes to be there, listened intently to everyone who had his ear, and from those that know him, he is a real gearhead. Let's give the guy a chance and realize he came to meet us and talk, making this last minute change and for those of us that he talked to, he was quite attentive. From those who know him, he is well known for being an adept listener and soaking up all the information given him ( he spent alot of his life with Chrysler working in the field) , but this was his first chance to meet what we all know is a very opinionated, passionate group and he wanted to be there with the VOA members.

[FLATOUT]

Tim K if you are listening, I would like a Mopar ECU. Thanks.

[ViperTony]

Tim K if you are listening, I would like a Mopar ECU. Thanks.

I want to add on that with "an aftermarket tun-able Mopar ECU". ;)

[FLATOUT]

I want to add on that with "an aftermarket tun-able Mopar ECU". ;)

Yes, I admittedly I have lowered my standards quite a bit when it comes to aftermarket support from Dodge/SRT.

[plumcrazy]

has there even been a legit answer or reason why they wont allow anyone to access the ECU and be able to tune it ?

[TwinVipers]

has there even been a legit answer or reason why they wont allow anyone to access the ECU and be able to tune it ?

only one I got was epa going after them!

[FLATOUT]

has there even been a legit answer or reason why they wont allow anyone to access the ECU and be able to tune it ?

No, lots of hints why but nothing official. Interesting thing is that Dodge seems to be the most concerned about this even though they seem to be the most conservative and by the book when it comes to the aftermarket. I am almost begining to think that GM & Ford have some lobbyist or someone much higher up in the food chain at the EPA that scares the crap out of Dodge.

[ViperTony]

If I had to take a guess at this I'd say that the low sales of the Viper doesn't justify (on paper) a business case to invest/R&D/certify let alone support aftermarket tuning of the GenV PCM. I don't believe it's a risk issue but a bean counter issue.

[Viktimize]

If I had to take a guess at this I'd say that the low sales of the Viper doesn't justify (on paper) a business case to invest/R&D/certify let alone support aftermarket tuning of the GenV PCM. I don't believe it's a risk issue but a bean counter issue.

This would make sense if it would actually cost them anything, but giving away codes costs nothing. Give out the codes then let the aftermarket tuners run wild with it. Seems to be a pretty good business model for Chevy. I myself know a few guys that refuse to get into a Viper even though they love the car, strictly because it has no tuning ability.

[FLATOUT]

Exactly, Tony it shouldn't cost them anything, and in fact they shouldn't even be in the middle of it to begin with.


This would make sense if it would actually cost them anything, but giving away codes costs nothing. Give out the codes then let the aftermarket tuners run wild with it. Seems to be a pretty good business model for Chevy. I myself know a few guys that refuse to get into a Viper even though they love the car, strictly because it has no tuning ability.

[Stealth]

I did my part to further the Viper cause by purchasing my 2014 GTS in July. It is an awesome car and many of the great qualities can only be appreciated when you actually drive the car--i.e., not just on-paper spec enhancements. It is really rare to get such excellent deals on exotic cars or any cars for that matter. Deals on 2013 Vipers are insanely good. I really doubt we will see this type of pricing available on 2015 cars.

[ViperSmith]

This would make sense if it would actually cost them anything, but giving away codes costs nothing. Give out the codes then let the aftermarket tuners run wild with it. Seems to be a pretty good business model for Chevy. I myself know a few guys that refuse to get into a Viper even though they love the car, strictly because it has no tuning ability.

If they don't own it, they can't give it out.

[LonghornTX]

This...give the guy a chance


Let's make sure we have our information correct , as we are making assumptions that birth perceptions that are not beneficial to the reality of the situation. Tim Kuniskis was not going on vacation, for one, he cancelled his plans to be at an unveiling of the Hellcat at the Mile High Nationals and instead be with the Viper faithful. Somehow folks expected him to come to the " Homecoming" festivities and have the same kind of passion as many are used to seeing from Ralph, and we all know many folks are quite passionate about the Viper but react much differently ( good example would be Dick Winkles who loves the Viper but is a fairly quiet individual). Like some of you I had a chance to chat with Tim at length and he came to the event mainly to listen to us, and that was what he did, reaching out to many to get their views. I understand how change is difficult for many to grasp after having a very open , energetic CEO in Ralph, but Tim made the effort to come to our party, made last minute changes to be there, listened intently to everyone who had his ear, and from those that know him, he is a real gearhead. Let's give the guy a chance and realize he came to meet us and talk, making this last minute change and for those of us that he talked to, he was quite attentive. From those who know him, he is well known for being an adept listener and soaking up all the information given him ( he spent alot of his life with Chrysler working in the field) , but this was his first chance to meet what we all know is a very opinionated, passionate group and he wanted to be there with the VOA members.

[plumcrazy]

If they don't own it, they can't give it out.

if thats the case, tell us who to talk to then

[I Bin Therbefor]

I find it difficult to believe that a tunable PCM will double the monthly sales of Vipers. Maybe, but I just don't see ~600 buyers per year saying give me a tunable PCM and I'll buy a Viper.

REPEAT

"My suggestions are based on attracting the non-traditional buyer. I am basing these suggestions on a perception on my part that the T/A is a pretty solid vehicle for the traditional buyer.

Non vehicle items:

Improve the entire ownership experience from marketing through buying (dealer experience) through ownership (maintenance). Focus on the GTS as a way of attracting the non-traditional buyer. Provide test rides!!!

Vehicle items:

An AT of some sort.

A convertible as part of the manufacturer's provided product line.

DI as a way of providing increased power.

Long range:

A new chassis for more flexibility in packaging, emphasizing cabin space, heat control, and exhaust drone elimination."

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's a brand thing. Look at all the press that the MB AMG GT is getting. I'm guessing the price will exceed the Viper's price. Admittedly it will have a transaxle AT. It has a Viper like cab back style. Why all the press? Why the sales, I'm betting.

What is the Viper missing to attract the non-traditional buyer?

[FLATOUT]

I think you'd be surprised at just how many Z06/ZR1 owners would rather be in a Viper than a Vette but choose the Vette due to tunability.

[ViperTony]

I think you'd be surprised at just how many Z06/ZR1 owners would rather be in a Viper than a Vette but choose the Vette due to tunability.

Maybe the new breed of Viper owner being targeted is one that will not want tuning abilities. Sure feels that way.

[viper04]

I think you'd be surprised at just how many Z06/ZR1 owners would rather be in a Viper than a Vette but choose the Vette due to tunability.

So true!!

[hmerrittiii]

Please offer your insights on how to double the present sales volume of Vipers.

Its a nitch market, but advertising the Viper and giving brand awareness along with test drives would be a good start. I believe the car is worth the money and is nicer than a Vette.

[Chorps]

Maybe the new breed of Viper owner being targeted is one that will not want tuning abilities. Sure feels that way.

I bet 95% of the owners don't/won't tune their Vipers but they like to see highly modded ones running (and winning) against other modded vehicles.

Just like the Viper is an aspirational vehicle for guys buying Chargers/Challengers/Darts and even Caravans, the highly modded Vipers are halo cars for the 'regular' Viper owners.

Otherwise the racing Vipers would be similarly wasting their time.

[CarolinaViper]

Its a nitch market, but advertising the Viper and giving brand awareness along with test drives would be a good start. I believe the car is worth the money and is nicer than a Vette.

Right on about advertising: Who watch the first NFL game of the Pre-season...A lot of Dodge commercials - Challenger/Chargers (no Vipers). The current Dodge commercials have the entire Dodge line-up in a row. How much more would it have cost to have a new Viper drive-up slow in front of the current line-up and show case the Viper. Not much.

[Nambo]

Maybe the new breed of Viper owner being targeted is one that will not want tuning abilities. Sure feels that way.

I am a new Viper owner who had headers installed before I took delivery. I have also ordered the mythical Mopar PCM as well. Don't really want to go crazy with tuning, just some basic bolt on's that remain reliable at the track is what I am looking for.

[Viktimize]

If they don't own it, they can't give it out.

Yes that is the rumour I heard about the tuning. Dodge does not actually own the code, they just buy it pre programmed from a contractor. Which seems back asswards. Why would they pay a pile of money to have someone else do the tuning code when they employ guys that could do that stuff?

[BLUEVIPER]

Let me preface this conversation with...that I have loved Vipers since I first saw them at the auto show (pre-production) then in person in 1993. At the time I lived in Southern California and 1992 Vipers where selling for as much as 50K over sticker...because virtually all had been acquired (by athletes, movie stars, etc.). The mass appeal for the car was insane! When you saw one on the road (rarely!!!) everyone's head turned to see it. I was young then and only could dream about owning a Viper...fast forward and I have owned three Vipers (currently have a 2010 FE convertible that I bought new from the local dealer...and love it!!) Would I buy a Gen V...no...why?...first no convertible...a must for me in Florida (and the only type of Vipers I have owned) and from what I have read on this site a lot of others too.... and second (and more importantly), the car needs an update not a retro...the same issues still plague the car (and remember I am an owner and still love the car!) ....handling, heat issues, etc. If Dodge (Fiat Chrysler Group) where to re-do the body (update it...not go retro) and keep the same attention to detail (interior/exterior fit and finish) they would bring back the "WOW" factor that once again make the Viper sell. Why do you think the corvette is getting so much press and attention...they went forward not backwards...the car regained the wow factor...it is still a chevy and I have no desire to buy one...but damn that car looks cool going down the road... it is now a head turner! and at a bargain basement price!

[ViperSmith]

Handling plagues the car as an issue? What?

[Viktimize]

I find it difficult to believe that a tunable PCM will double the monthly sales of Vipers. Maybe, but I just don't see ~600 buyers per year saying give me a tunable PCM and I'll buy a Viper.

REPEAT

"My suggestions are based on attracting the non-traditional buyer. I am basing these suggestions on a perception on my part that the T/A is a pretty solid vehicle for the traditional buyer.

Non vehicle items:

Improve the entire ownership experience from marketing through buying (dealer experience) through ownership (maintenance). Focus on the GTS as a way of attracting the non-traditional buyer. Provide test rides!!!

Vehicle items:

An AT of some sort.

A convertible as part of the manufacturer's provided product line.

DI as a way of providing increased power.

Long range:

A new chassis for more flexibility in packaging, emphasizing cabin space, heat control, and exhaust drone elimination."

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's a brand thing. Look at all the press that the MB AMG GT is getting. I'm guessing the price will exceed the Viper's price. Admittedly it will have a transaxle AT. It has a Viper like cab back style. Why all the press? Why the sales, I'm betting.

What is the Viper missing to attract the non-traditional buyer?

Oh for sure tuning is NOT going to double purchases. For that I think it is just a matter of letting people know the car is available. I can't believe how many people tell me they didn't even know the Viper was being made again when I tell them I want to buy a new one. And then you have car guys that DO know the Viper exists, but think it's a 150k car, so they plan to get a Z06 when it comes instead.

Dodge needs to focus on marketing, and specifically on letting people know that you can get into one for sub 100k. I can't imagine why any guy in his right mind that was well educated about the Viper, would buy a new Z06 for 120k, when you could get the Viper TA for that? Hell, you could get a base SRT with the aero package for like 105k MSRP. It is a no brainer to anyone who knows anything about the Viper, but that's exactly the problem, people don't know anything about it.

Management is making it a catch 22 though. Viper is low volume car, so they don't want to spend anything on marketing. But if they DID spend a proper budget on marketing they could easily hit their sales numbers to keep the car alive and make it profitable.

[Newport Viper]

Truth...... :)


let me preface this conversation with...that i have loved vipers since i first saw them at the auto show (pre-production) then in person in 1993. At the time i lived in southern california and 1992 vipers where selling for as much as 50k over sticker...because virtually all had been acquired (by athletes, movie stars, etc.). The mass appeal for the car was insane! When you saw one on the road (rarely!!!) everyone's head turned to see it. I was young then and only could dream about owning a viper...fast forward and i have owned three vipers (currently have a 2010 fe convertible that i bought new from the local dealer...and love it!!) would i buy a gen v...no...why?...first no convertible...a must for me in florida (and the only type of vipers i have owned) and from what i have read on this site a lot of others too.... And second (and more importantly), the car needs an update not a retro...the same issues still plague the car (and remember i am an owner and still love the car!) ....handling, heat issues, etc. If dodge (fiat chrysler group) where to re-do the body (update it...not go retro) and keep the same attention to detail (interior/exterior fit and finish) they would bring back the "wow" factor that once again make the viper sell. Why do you think the corvette is getting so much press and attention...they went forward not backwards...the car regained the wow factor...it is still a chevy and i have no desire to buy one...but damn that car looks cool going down the road... It is now a head turner! And at a bargain basement price!

[mikesax]

I just got back from a local strip mall after picking up some dinner-about 7 tonight! Traffic in the parking lot-middle age man and wife in a new Land Rover/20 something kid in a new SUV/30 something in a new BMW- all windows open and the guy in the Land Rover asks "what kind of car is that"? I answer a "Dodge Viper" -all 3 in succession were AWED at the Viper- the other 2 said "I'm glad he asked-I was dying to know what it was-car is gorgeous"!! Who knows for sure what they would do if they were in a position to buy a 2 seat sports car-but all 3 came over and checked it out as I was going in to p/u dinner! Car is timeless IMO-not too retro!! It's just NOT seen in the mainstream-ALOT of people with $$ have really no idea what it is!! CarolinaViper is right on!!

[ViperSmith]

Truth...... :)

Looks are subjective

But, care to detail the handling problems it apparently has?

[FLATOUT]

You clearly have not spent ANY time in the new car lol. Heat issues? Nothing of the sort. Handling? If owning the production car lap record at Laguna means your car handles bad then I'll take all the bad handling I can get.

Exterior and interior fit and finish is better than its ever been, I've owned three generations of Vipers now and it's not even close.

Styling went back to the timeless and most popular Viper styling ever.

The only thing that made any sense that you said is that they need to offer a convertible.



Let me preface this conversation with...that I have loved Vipers since I first saw them at the auto show (pre-production) then in person in 1993. At the time I lived in Southern California and 1992 Vipers where selling for as much as 50K over sticker...because virtually all had been acquired (by athletes, movie stars, etc.). The mass appeal for the car was insane! When you saw one on the road (rarely!!!) everyone's head turned to see it. I was young then and only could dream about owning a Viper...fast forward and I have owned three Vipers (currently have a 2010 FE convertible that I bought new from the local dealer...and love it!!) Would I buy a Gen V...no...why?...first no convertible...a must for me in Florida (and the only type of Vipers I have owned) and from what I have read on this site a lot of others too.... and second (and more importantly), the car needs an update not a retro...the same issues still plague the car (and remember I am an owner and still love the car!) ....handling, heat issues, etc. If Dodge (Fiat Chrysler Group) where to re-do the body (update it...not go retro) and keep the same attention to detail (interior/exterior fit and finish) they would bring back the "WOW" factor that once again make the Viper sell. Why do you think the corvette is getting so much press and attention...they went forward not backwards...the car regained the wow factor...it is still a chevy and I have no desire to buy one...but damn that car looks cool going down the road... it is now a head turner! and at a bargain basement price!

[hmerrittiii]

6210

Agreed, tell me this car doesn't wow you.



You clearly have not spent ANY time in the new car lol. Heat issues? Nothing of the sort. Handling? If owning the production car lap record at Laguna means your car handles bad then I'll take all the bad handling I can get.

Exterior and interior fit and finish is better than its ever been, I've owned three generations of Vipers now and it's not even close.

Styling went back to the timeless and most popular Viper styling ever.

The only thing that made any sense that you said is that they need to offer a convertible.

[SHADOWSNAKE]

Let me preface this conversation with...that I have loved Vipers since I first saw them at the auto show (pre-production) then in person in 1993. At the time I lived in Southern California and 1992 Vipers where selling for as much as 50K over sticker...because virtually all had been acquired (by athletes, movie stars, etc.). The mass appeal for the car was insane! When you saw one on the road (rarely!!!) everyone's head turned to see it. I was young then and only could dream about owning a Viper...fast forward and I have owned three Vipers (currently have a 2010 FE convertible that I bought new from the local dealer...and love it!!) Would I buy a Gen V...no...why?...first no convertible...a must for me in Florida (and the only type of Vipers I have owned) and from what I have read on this site a lot of others too.... and second (and more importantly), the car needs an update not a retro...the same issues still plague the car (and remember I am an owner and still love the car!) ....handling, heat issues, etc. If Dodge (Fiat Chrysler Group) where to re-do the body (update it...not go retro) and keep the same attention to detail (interior/exterior fit and finish) they would bring back the "WOW" factor that once again make the Viper sell. Why do you think the corvette is getting so much press and attention...they went forward not backwards...the car regained the wow factor...it is still a chevy and I have no desire to buy one...but damn that car looks cool going down the road... it is now a head turner! and at a bargain basement price!

FLATOUT is right, nothing you said beyond the vert comment makes any sense. I'll address the obvious questions: have you seen a Gen V in person; have you driven a Gen V; and, did you gain your assessment from silly car rag dribble? Look man, the car is awesome, looks amazing and is the best Viper I've ever driven. In fact, it's even better to drive than my 11 Z06/Z07 which, as track cars go, is a pretty high benchmark.

I appreciate that you're a fellow Viper enthusiast but it's not helpful to rip on the new car when you clearly don't have any seat time in one. Tell you what, if you're ever in my neck of the woods, call me and I'll be happy to give you the full tour. Seriously.

[Coloviper]

Bill, I hope you are right on Tim. We have no choice but to give the guy a chance however first impressions are first impressions and it was very negative on my part. I hope he did listen to all the feedback and reacts positively towards the Viper but the lack of demonstrated passion was a major concern for me. Maybe it was just me? I was a part owner, director and helped run an international engineering company with 275 speciality service engineers for many years before it was acquired in mid-2000s. I witnessed first hand the same business run buy a business-only President versus a passionate and experienced technically savvy President. Sorry but a lifeless business only President only knows how to cut back, not how to grow and solve the real problems/issues.

Sorry but Tim had a chance to start earning confidence and build trust by addressing the group to say he will do whatever he can to do the Viper justice and carry forth the torch. The guy said nothing, did not even smile when introduced in the crowd. I realize we may disagree about these points, but that was a HUGE opportunity lost for him with the key demography by seizing the moment. Guess not everyone is that way these days.

In the end, actions speak louder than words I guess. We shall see in the coming months if he really did listen and if he is willing to stand by the Viper. I have reservations but would like nothing more than to be proven wrong and have to eat these words. Confidence is earned but you are right, he deserves a chance. Guess we will see! Right or wrong, even with faults, he is no Ralph. After talking with Ralph, that enthusiasm was infectious. I wanted the buy right away after VOI11. Tim did not even gone close to achieving this. That is a concern.

[Viktimize]

FLATOUT is right, nothing you said beyond the vert comment makes any sense. I'll address the obvious questions: have you seen a Gen V in person; have you driven a Gen V; and, did you gain your assessment from silly car rag dribble? Look man, the car is awesome, looks amazing and is the best Viper I've ever driven. In fact, it's even better to drive than my 11 Z06/Z07 which, as track cars go, is a pretty high benchmark.

I appreciate that you're a fellow Viper enthusiast but it's not helpful to rip on the new car when you clearly don't have any seat time in one. Tell you what, if you're ever in my neck of the woods, call me and I'll be happy to give you the full tour. Seriously.

BLUEVIPER is actually demonstrating exactly what Dodge is doing wrong. If a fellow Viper enthusiast thinks these things about the car based on its reputation of old. Then just imagine what the general public thinks of it! It's the marketing departments job to make sure potential buyers know that these things have been fixed, and showcase how great of a car it really is. If that job was done then people wouldn't be thinking these things about the car and writing it off to go buy a ZR1 before even taking a proper look at the Viper.

[Roy]

I think adding a convertible would obviously add about 25-30% ...those customers are definately out there.

But on the other hand, 600 Vipers isn't so bad if I see that the GT-R is selling about the same, hell at Nissan they even made a complete fully automatic assembly line for the thing, there is much more research in this car and they update it pretty often, so they invested a bit more I think and they don't get any bigger numbers...

I would say the Viper has to be a flagship car which is building a brands image...they aren't using the car for this purpose, I don't get that. Nissan clearly does exactly that with their flagship, I am sure it is making a profit worldwidely seen, but if it wouldn't they would still build this Godzilla of theirs. Same goes for the ZR1 or Z06, if this car on itself isn't making a profit, they won't stop building and devoloping it, it makes them sell regular Stingrays and even other Chevy's

I have not driven or even seen the Gen 5 Viper in the flesh, but I assume it drives nothing like my Gen 3 (if it did, it wouldn't have sold 600 units annually in this time of competitors) and I've read that even European journalists like the interior and finish of the car, which has not happened before with...well any USA car yet, so I am pretty sure it is not the car's fault "it doesn't sell"

But back to the main point, I am not sure if with the small bandwidth of choices on Vipers..well just 1, a coupe in some tastes, it is to be expected that such a high end car would sell more units in this time, remember lots of people have economical crisis's in the back of their heads and maybe also in their wallets

[SHADOWSNAKE]

I am in full agreement that the marketing execution of this car has been sub-par. The fact that select current Viper owners of prior gens continue to bandwagon bash a car they don't actually know anything about (save for what Motor Trend or the like tells them) is certainly not helping the car's reputation or sales, either. I guess I like to make my own decisions and not have someone else do it for me - I'm crazy like that.

This car has always been a bit of an anomaly in the automotive world and owes its existence to both the manufacturer AND dedicated enthusiasts who've supported it. The car's been out in dealerships for over a year and a half. There are club events all over the country, not to mention cars & coffee etc., where Gen Vs show up. There is nothing stopping a current, previous gen Viper owner from better exploring the car. If I could effectively research it from Afghanistan, in the middle of nowhere, I'm confident a little more initiative and support from Viper enthusiasts would both result in more positive feedback and potentially lend to a few more sales.

If passing judgement based on other people's efforts to enjoy the car is your thing, I might recommend looking at forum feedback from those Viper owners who finally got to drive the car at homecoming. I saw a lot of "wow'd" faces as folks climbed out...

[Bill Pemberton]

Coloviper,

Not fair to compare to Ralph, as we all have known him for years and then he became CEO, so we knew his passion, yet Tim did what many of the past CEOs did not do, he showed up at a Viper function. Over the last 20 years there have been tons of functions where no one showed up, or when they did they acted like they were holding court , and only talked to few who wanted to hear them talk, they did not listen. Now we are being critical of someone who those in the know say is a thinker, good listener, and we are critical because he does not act like Ralph. Frankly, we all love Ralph, but Ralph did not act like Ralph years back, as surprisingly he was rather quiet and reserved in many situations. He has been open to us , as he feels a kinship and has grown with Viper owners as we have grown with him. I was actually quite pleased Tim took the initiative to cancel his Corporate Plans with the Hellcat and Press and come to be with us - this was a last minute decision , entirely on his part. He came to listen, and he does not know any of us and I was impressed he made that decision. I spent too many years where Corporate heads or even Directors involved with the Viper would virtually never talk to Dealers, let alone consumers. Yes, we need to give him a chance, but we have in recent years had such a remarkable access to Chrysler Corporate that we have expected it, and it is extremely uncommon for most automotive companies to give consumers such access. We need to be thankful and appreciative that folks like Ralph , and now Tim, want to come and spend time with us, as the key is they value our input. We have 11 brands under the Woodhouse banner, and no one else gets anywhere near as close to this type of management exposure --- we need to understand what we really have with Dodge and embrace it.

[plumcrazy]

well said bill

[CarolinaViper]

[QUOTE=. I witnessed first hand the same business run buy a business-only President versus a passionate and experienced technically savvy President. Sorry but a lifeless business only President only knows how to cut back, not how to grow and solve the real problems/issues.[/QUOTE]

Normally, I would agree but look at Ford's turn around under Alan Mulally, who came from Boeing (airplanes vs cars), The only US car company that didn't declare bankruptcy. I guess time will tell but without a better marketing program they will sure be doomed to fail.

[Thawk97]

I also got a chance to speak with Tim and he seemed like a very down to earth guy. I'll echo the statements that we need to give him a chance. He told me he's been begging his wife to get a Viper and she's slowly coming around. I think he appreciates the car, but no doubt he's also got a lot more scrutiny on his decision making at the moment since the changes with SRT. This community can help only by staying positive and doing the word-of-mouth marketing which sells cars.

[ViperSmith]

I think the problem is Viper owners expect whoever is in charge to be passionate. Lutz and Iacocca were passionate about it and it was born. Ralph rebirthed it, and we can debate how well, but you can't debate his passion.

It doesn't matter if Tim is personally passionate about the car. You should at least act like you have the passion people expect, even if you don't.

[FLATOUT]

Agree it's one of the most passionate cars on the road today and it attracts people that are built that way. I hope the guy running the program is a fanatic like many of us. It's a cultural concern and one focused on direction of the platforms future.



I think the problem is Viper owners expect whoever is in charge to be passionate. Lutz and Iacocca were passionate about it and it was born. Ralph rebirthed it, and we can debate how well, but you can't debate his passion.

It doesn't matter if Tim is personally passionate about the car. You should at least act like you have the passion people expect, even if you don't.

[Stealth]

The Gen V is an excellent car! For those who do not own one but are in the market to purchase one, find a GTS or TA to drive or ride in and you will see the quality, craftsmanship and performance of the car.

Agreed that it is important--on Viper Board and otherwise--to reinforce the idea that we will BUY the cars if they build them!

[KB Viper]

I think you'd be surprised at just how many Z06/ZR1 owners would rather be in a Viper than a Vette but choose the Vette due to tunability.

amen to that brother. i love my viper but with no tuning options or after market support that doesn't cost as much as a new truck i'll probably find myself back in a chevy for that reason alone.

[Coloviper]

Like I said Bill, I know we will disagree on some things (doesn't mean I will not be calling you when finances turn to the positive a bit more ;) ) All that said, first impressions are what they are. That was my impression which no matter how I squint my eyes or try to recall it differently, it was clearly what I walked away with and I was 10 ft from him when they announced him at the dinner at the Chrysler Museum.

I guess Ralph set the bar high and I respect and like being around that entrepreneurial and passionate energy of courageous individuals like this (as I have been this way about my executive/engineering/business career, prior semi-pro sports career, family and life in general) but I deal with C-Level individuals from many large companies and public entities everyday in my career, yes none of them from the Automotive world as I deal in Industrial Energy but still you can tell the traits of people that just have it. I never fit into public company structures (though I tried) as I am an outlier and too much entrepreneur for Wall Street. Private sector has been where I absolutely thrive. Part of the issue in this first impression is probably mine I guess.

I apologize for not having the extensive history at these events having only been at VOI11 and NVE1 for national events. My Viper adventure started in 2006 with the new coupe I bought then. Guess I was spoiled at VOI11 having access and intimate discussions with Tom Gale, Francois Castaing, Ralph Gilles as well as a few others. Back in 2011/2012, we had dinner with Dick Winkles and members of the SRT powertrain team twice in the Rockies during high altitude testing for the GEN V. While yes Dick is quiet, I still walked away with a firm impression of the passion he and the guys had for the new car (as well as their love for Tommy Knockers Root Beer in Idaho Springs, CO).

Not going to stand on my soap box shouting any longer on this as made my point, except to say a final that if I walked away with this clear impression in an intimate Viper Owners event which should not be a hostile environment like an unveiling or panel review, etc., then Tim needs to be aware how he can come off at times? I don't want him to apologize as the "Viper is a non-apology car". It is about excess, about passion. The Viper NEEDS passion to resonate from it. It was created for passionate people. Tim has his chance with SRT under Dodge and hopefully he knocks it out of the park but it must start with the right approach and passion must be in that approach. Viper is not about rationalization. As I said, I would like nothing better but to say "you know what Tim, the new Viper has everything I could ever want in any car and I was wrong about you", then shake his hand and be a man about apologizing. Guess we will see!

[Viktimize]

Here is a question I have. Why does Viper sales NEED to increase anyway? Sure Dodge WANTS them to increase as it brings in more money. But even the GT-R only sells 800 units a year, but probably had 5 times as much money spent on R&D over the Viper. It is either a profitable car at that low sales figure, or it is just worth it for Nissan to lose money on because it draws people in to the showrooms where they can sell them a 370z instead. I don't understand why it gets treated like the sky is falling because the Viper isn't selling 1000 units a year?

[BLUEVIPER]

Again, and maybe some on you are missing the point, I am not a Viper basher...why would I curently own one (as well as a previous Gen 2 and 3?)have I seen the car? was at the unveil in NY... and to my local dealer several times (at his request)....have I driven the Gen 5 yet? no, but my local dealer has offered this to me numerous times since he regular communicates with me because he knows I love Vipers!!...why haven't I...I'm a business man and told him that I did not want to waste his time since I am currently not in the market...he also knows I only buy convertibles. Will I buy one in the future....very high likelihood...why haven't I...again styling...I want the next generation (like the corvette, mustang, Ferarri, Lambo, etc...) not a retro. I'm not saying I do not like the car..far from it! I am EXTREMELY grateful that Ralph kept the ball rolling...I'm just waiting for what is next...

[I Bin Therbefor]

I've been trying to focus on product, the Viper itself, marketing and branding. However it seems that some comment about FIAT is appropriate. So let me quote an anonymous saying - “We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. … I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization.” We've had the reorganizing, let's hope it doesn't lead to "confusion, inefficiency and demoralization." I can't see how the latest reorganization is going to lead to increased Viper sales. I do read a quite a bit about confusion and demoralization in the market place. Not even the auto and financial analysts could make sense out of the latest FIAT reorganization - confusion.

So, I'll stick with the Viper product and hope someone in FIAT can learn to brand, market and develop the Viper.

[Stealth]

Moderators: possibly time for a lock?

None of the last comments is going to inspire Dodge to further the cause. The constructive points have all been made--repeatedly--many times before. Let those who dislike the car vote with their wallets and purchase something else while the rest of us enjoy the current car and constructively support further development of the Viper and constructively support the chain of command of Dodge behind the Viper. Dodge knows there are at least some buyers who want DCT, more power, CCBs, aluminum frame, covertible, ACR, lower price, more progressive styling, etc. I would also love to see some of these things in the future. Everyone gets it. However, if there are not actual purchases of the current car and constructive support for future cars, then the chances of additional variations of the Gen V and a future Gen VI are certainly reduced. Surely the vocal non-purchasers understand this. Let's be smart about supporting a car we all love.

[Newport Viper]

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobiles/8-automobiles-that-are-losing-the-popularity-contest.html/?a=viewall

[FLATOUT]

This isn't the VCA, and the comments in this thread are hardly bashing, but the exact type of discussion that is more than acceptable and civil.




Moderators: possibly time for a lock?

None of the last comments is going to inspire Dodge to further the cause. The constructive points have all been made--repeatedly--many times before. Let those who dislike the car vote with their wallets and purchase something else while the rest of us enjoy the current car and constructively support further development of the Viper and constructively support the chain of command of Dodge behind the Viper. Dodge knows there are at least some buyers who want DCT, more power, CCBs, aluminum frame, covertible, ACR, lower price, more progressive styling, etc. I would also love to see some of these things in the future. Everyone gets it. However, if there are not actual purchases of the current car and constructive support for future cars, then the chances of additional variations of the Gen V and a future Gen VI are certainly reduced. Surely the vocal non-purchasers understand this. Let's be smart about supporting a car we all love.

[AZTVR]

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automobiles/8-automobiles-that-are-losing-the-popularity-contest.html/?a=viewall

and your point is what? A blogger on an internet web site has an opinion that is kind of like some other people's opinions?

[Nine Ball]

Here is a question I have. Why does Viper sales NEED to increase anyway? Sure Dodge WANTS them to increase as it brings in more money. But even the GT-R only sells 800 units a year, but probably had 5 times as much money spent on R&D over the Viper. It is either a profitable car at that low sales figure, or it is just worth it for Nissan to lose money on because it draws people in to the showrooms where they can sell them a 370z instead. I don't understand why it gets treated like the sky is falling because the Viper isn't selling 1000 units a year?

Nissan uses the GT-R, and GM uses the Corvette, to develop new technology and innovation, all subsidized by the sales of these high dollar cars. That technology developed within their halo sports cars eventually trickles down into the lesser commuting appliances both companies make. That is why they can keep the GT-R around, even if profit is minimal, or even if they see a minor loss. Nobody even talked about Nissan in the last 10 yrs, prior to the GT-R showing up on the scene. In Japan, they first marketed the car as an Infinity, due to the luxury/pricetag of the car. They were smart and called it a Nissan here, thus promoting the brand image and making people think Nismo 370Z's are actually fast. Haha.

Viper doesn't share this new technology or innovation test-bed feature. Historically, it seems to have been built with parts-bin parts that existed from other Chrysler products. We just got traction control in 2013, even though they had it for years in other Dodge vehicles. About the only thing "unique" about the Viper vs other Dodge cars is the extensive use of carbon fiber body panels. But, those aren't likely to appear on cheap commuter cars, anyways. If Dodge were to treat the car like Nissan treats the GT-R, we'd see a host of nice innovations (see electrical locking diff in C7 Corvette) that would keep the spec sheet racers happy. It might even raise the price a bit, but if we had the best of the best parts, not found on other Dodge cars, nobody would complain.

[mikesax]

WELL SAID again Nine!!

[Disturbed]

Nissan uses the GT-R, and GM uses the Corvette, to develop new technology and innovation, all subsidized by the sales of these high dollar cars. That technology developed within their halo sports cars eventually trickles down into the lesser commuting appliances both companies make. That is why they can keep the GT-R around, even if profit is minimal, or even if they see a minor loss. Nobody even talked about Nissan in the last 10 yrs, prior to the GT-R showing up on the scene. In Japan, they first marketed the car as an Infinity, due to the luxury/pricetag of the car. They were smart and called it a Nissan here, thus promoting the brand image and making people think Nismo 370Z's are actually fast. Haha.

Viper doesn't share this new technology or innovation test-bed feature. Historically, it seems to have been built with parts-bin parts that existed from other Chrysler products. We just got traction control in 2013, even though they had it for years in other Dodge vehicles. About the only thing "unique" about the Viper vs other Dodge cars is the extensive use of carbon fiber body panels. But, those aren't likely to appear on cheap commuter cars, anyways. If Dodge were to treat the car like Nissan treats the GT-R, we'd see a host of nice innovations (see electrical locking diff in C7 Corvette) that would keep the spec sheet racers happy. It might even raise the price a bit, but if we had the best of the best parts, not found on other Dodge cars, nobody would complain.

Even if they just used all the current parts bin parts would be an improvement. 15.4" brakes with 6piston calipers, 5-lug with new updates bearings, multi-mode shock (yes two mode now but more adjustably is needed), Direct injection, SC or turbo, MULTI-AIR, multi-mode exhaust and one I can't believe they don't have now....Lumbar support.

These types of changes, some are easy to do (we know brakes and TB is on its way and is confirmed)

The Viper is the greatest platform....with the worst support.

I'm hoping the 2015 gets much needed improvements. Right now I'm waiting to see if a hellcat, F-Type or a Z07 is what is going to pull me away from a viper. At the Vipers price point there is heavy, heavy competition.

The Viper was to be rude, unapologetic, proud and a middle finger to the other exotics of the world. Cars like the GTR and ZO6 have caught up in performance. I want nothing more then the next Viper to come out and bitch slap them all just as the new Challenger Hellcat just walked up to the pony car King and slapped the shit out of it. That has always been the dodge performance way. 426 'cuda, Omni GLHS, Stealth turbo , Neon SRT4, Ram SRT10, Viper GTS, Gen4 ACR, JGC-SRT8, Challenger Hellcat, These were all cars that did just that in their time and category. These cars are the reason we are mopar fans.

[Simms]

I'll be honest, sure there are some things I wish my 14 had. But I just had my first track day/NARRA event in my Gen V and the car was awesome! Best Viper built to date.

[ViperTony]

This isn't the VCA, and the comments in this thread are hardly bashing, but the exact type of discussion that is more than acceptable and civil.

Amen brother.

[FLATOUT]

You know everytime I start getting frustrated with the little things on the car that I would like to improve I remind myself that there is still 10 seconds per lap that I am leaving on the track at MSR Houston lol. Until I can approach those times the biggest improvement that needs to be made is the drivers seat.

Drag and roll racing I need more hp, but road racing I still have a ways to go.


I'll be honest, sure there are some things I wish my 14 had. But I just had my first track day/NARRA event in my Gen V and the car was awesome! Best Viper built to date.

[Simms]

You know everytime I start getting frustrated with the little things on the car that I would like to improve I remind myself that there is still 10 seconds per lap that I am leaving on the track at MSR Houston lol. Until I can approach those times the biggest improvement that needs to be made is the drivers seat.

Drag and roll racing I need more hp, but road racing I still have a ways to go.

I feel the same way. I'll stick with my TT for certain situations. But when it comes to the track, more seat time is definitely needed to push this car to its limits. I will say it is much more predictable and less of a handful to track. I REALLY enjoy the Gen V.

[Viktimize]

and one I can't believe they don't have now....Lumbar support.



This!!! I am going to be slightly annoyed if I drop 100k on a new car and still have to drive around with a pillow behind my back so I'm not crippled after a 10 hour road trip.

[Bruce H.]

This!!! I am going to be slightly annoyed if I drop 100k on a new car and still have to drive around with a pillow behind my back so I'm not crippled after a 10 hour road trip.

I need good lumbar support as well and I can tell you that the TA's seats have it, it's effective for up to 8 1/2 hours at a time that I've sat in them, and they are the first and only seats I've experienced to do so. My XKR seats with 2_way adjustable lumbar, were pretty good, but this nails it with no adjustment necessary for me...and no more little pillow anymore on long drives!

[TrackAire]

Like I said Bill, I know we will disagree on some things (doesn't mean I will not be calling you when finances turn to the positive a bit more ;) ) All that said, first impressions are what they are. That was my impression which no matter how I squint my eyes or try to recall it differently, it was clearly what I walked away with and I was 10 ft from him when they announced him at the dinner at the Chrysler Museum.

I guess Ralph set the bar high and I respect and like being around that entrepreneurial and passionate energy of courageous individuals like this (as I have been this way about my executive/engineering/business career, prior semi-pro sports career, family and life in general) but I deal with C-Level individuals from many large companies and public entities everyday in my career, yes none of them from the Automotive world as I deal in Industrial Energy but still you can tell the traits of people that just have it. I never fit into public company structures (though I tried) as I am an outlier and too much entrepreneur for Wall Street. Private sector has been where I absolutely thrive. Part of the issue in this first impression is probably mine I guess.

I apologize for not having the extensive history at these events having only been at VOI11 and NVE1 for national events. My Viper adventure started in 2006 with the new coupe I bought then. Guess I was spoiled at VOI11 having access and intimate discussions with Tom Gale, Francois Castaing, Ralph Gilles as well as a few others. Back in 2011/2012, we had dinner with Dick Winkles and members of the SRT powertrain team twice in the Rockies during high altitude testing for the GEN V. While yes Dick is quiet, I still walked away with a firm impression of the passion he and the guys had for the new car (as well as their love for Tommy Knockers Root Beer in Idaho Springs, CO).

Not going to stand on my soap box shouting any longer on this as made my point, except to say a final that if I walked away with this clear impression in an intimate Viper Owners event which should not be a hostile environment like an unveiling or panel review, etc., then Tim needs to be aware how he can come off at times? I don't want him to apologize as the "Viper is a non-apology car". It is about excess, about passion. The Viper NEEDS passion to resonate from it. It was created for passionate people. Tim has his chance with SRT under Dodge and hopefully he knocks it out of the park but it must start with the right approach and passion must be in that approach. Viper is not about rationalization. As I said, I would like nothing better but to say "you know what Tim, the new Viper has everything I could ever want in any car and I was wrong about you", then shake his hand and be a man about apologizing. Guess we will see!


I was standing next to Tim while some friends had a lengthy conversation with him at the museum. My gut impression of him is that he is not a BS artist. He seems very confident and passionate when explaining the features and benefits of the new Hellcat Challenger. But, I don't think he is going to get up in front of everybody and speak about the Vipers future if he knows that there is none or there is no direction given to SRT yet from FCA regarding future Viper plans.

He has also probably learned from the previous Viper club fiasco that what he doesn't say, can't be used against him. If he hasn't figured it out himself, I guarantee the Chrysler legal department has clued in everyone at SRT on what to say and not say.

The lack of information from Tim or any SRT representative at the museum gathering would have me the most concerned about the Vipers future or lack of it.

I'm hoping there is some green light given for something beyond the 2015 Viper....Tim and the marketing department have so far done a great job with the Hellcat release. If they can put what they've learned with the Hellcat release into the new Viper marketing and promotion, I'd think you'd see the energy and passion from Tim that would impress us all.

[I Bin Therbefor]

FIRE & ICE

I just watched Tim on the Jay Leno show introducing the Challenger. Then I went back and watched the Jay Leno show when the Gen V was introduced to him. Lastly I went back and watched the Gen V intro at the NY auto show. From those and the SRT home page, I conclude:

Tim is ICE to Ralph's FIRE. Tim has NO emotional or professional/career investment in the Viper. Tim will NOT carry the Viper as a loss leader or as a halo car. The Viper must earn its way to stay in production and to claim any leader position. When Tim asks what does it take to double Viper sales because otherwise the Viper won't stay in production, I take him to mean exactly what he says. First he doesn't know what it will take to double Viper sales but he's asking and appears to be willing to listen and learn. If he can find what it takes to double sales, he will execute! Second, if the Viper revenue objectives aren't met (the sales doubled), the production of the Viper will be stopped. I suspect, Tim will be asking the dealers who are volume leaders in Viper sales, the question, what does it take to double Viper sales. These dealers have worked hard and wisely to achieve their success, I hope they will be willing to help Tim understand what it takes to double the Viper sales and achieve revenue goals. Someone has to help Tim because I believe if he knew he wouldn't bother to ask, he'd get about doing the job!

[Coloviper]

Kind of a chicken and the egg scenario though. Not investing in the Viper development because it is projected to have poor sales or has had poor sales but then being handcuffed because of poor sales, you do not invest in it anymore. Takes big jewels hanging down there to believe in the product to then give it what it needs to compete and be a success. Life is a gamble.

Let's face it, poor Dick Winkles was given a small shoe box of money and try to get a bit more out of it with that shoebox. That is the epitome of handcuffed.

I hope Tim realizes it is as simple as listening to the top 5 wishes or complaints:

1. More Power to where Viper owners feel safe and secure in NOT being trumped (especially not from within their own family). Blow it, TT or NA, whatever makes it work in the end.
2. Proper support from factory and dealerships for the car (Asses in seats experience to attract those new owners, if it means 4 dealers can sell it, then so be it))
3. Proper marketing and attention to image (so owners can feel good about their car instead of being told it is not all that from some rag magazine) Talk about and support it Dodge. Show it some respect for all it has done for you. Most, me included would have sooner peed on the side of a Dodge then own one. Viper changed that for me and I have been a multiple owner since. No Viper and I would have never owned a real Dodge, though I had owned Jeeps.
4. Convertible and ACR models (though by most responses recently ACR is more of a ground effects thing than true ACR Race model considering the great performance of the TA). Factory Vert will help.
5. Amped ancillary equipment up to the task, bigger brakes, DCT or Hellcat Auto, Trofeo Tires, Quaife, whatever, etc.

The core of the car is great, it is just about there to perfect for many. I wish the next interviewer for Tim would just ask him straight away how does Dodge view the Viper and why is it no longer talked about or mentioned prominently? He can not talk about future products but he can answer why they have treated it as such. I still think it is lawyers gone wild over there and the Viper crushing event is tied to it somehow. I just believe Iaccoca, Lutz and others would have told their lawyers to pound sand for even mentioning it. Something is just amidst.

[Stealth]

Those who think that the price of the current and future Vipers will be lower are engaging in wishful thinking. It will be necessary to pay to play, just as it is with other stellar cars. A stripped-down, de-contented car is not the answer. The C7Z, when loaded is anticipated to top $100k, and that is a mass-produced car sharing a frame and many parts with lesser models. The car is expensive, but then so are the Nissan GTR, Porsche TTs and GT3, Ferraris, Lambos, etc. This car simply cannot be priced like a base Corvette or a Camaro. You may not like it, but this is reality.

The Viper needs to and should survive as a Halo car. Dodge builds bad-a@@ cars and the Viper is the baddest and a great image builder! This is the Dodge niche.

The current Gen V is awesome and light years ahead of what it replaced--I owned a Gen IV Coupe and now own a Gen V GTS. These are not just spec-sheet improvements in power, weight or better materials. You will not know this unless you really drive an adjustable suspension Gen V.

Dodge cannot let look-e-loos test drive the car; only buyers that day. The car is expensive inventory and will not move if there are too many test drives. Maybe Dodge can provide Dealers with Demos, but even that is fraught with difficulties and liability potential. Further, to really driver the car to get to know it, you will need to get on the car and push it a bit. This is not something that should be done to a $140k car still in break-in. My car had 62mi. on it when I purchased it and that was pushing it; I did not know how the differential, tranny, engine, etc. were treated during those miles. (So far, so good). I passed up several opportunities to drive this and other cars (yes, test drives offered) because I did not want to put miles on the car unless I was going to purchase it then and there. Instead, I went for rides in, and drove (very gently) my friend's new Gen V. Even then, I could not tell too much about the Gen V. There will always be a bit of a leap of faith in this type of purchase. Do you think they allow test drives of Ferrari 458s, Lambos, etc.?

The Gen V has very strong power and close gearing to maximize the power; mine is a rocket so far. Some may not like the longer first gear due to 0-60 or 1/4mi. clutch dumps, but I do not even know anyone who uses this type of car for that type of abuse. Gearing is great; 1st gear is far more usable. On the roadcourse, 1st gear is just your roll-out gear. Given EPA, CARB (CA) and other restrictions, the motor is probably about maxed out for a safely drivable, long-lasting motor. I understand that for those who want to add their own extra power, that will be available soon. This will be Mopar, etc. aftermarket hardware and a computer tuned for that hardware. There will also be other add-ons.

The biggest marketing gaffs were providing preproduction Gen V cars to testers that were not ready for prime time: mismatched, worn, tires; loose driver's seat bolts (!!); bad alignments; body parts falling off; etc. You never get a second chance to make a good first impression. Further, the TA should have been available for the track testing. It will be interesting to see the lightening lap results.

The best way to ensure the Viper line is to purchase it and there are fantastic deals available. Only if there is such support will it make business sense for Dodge to produce additional Gen V variants and future Gens. No one forces anyone to purchase a Viper; if it is not the car for you, then no problem, just purchase the car that is for you. Those forums will no doubt appreciate your input.

[daytonprowler]

I don't think Tim will want to be associated with the Viper dying on his watch. I think he can turn it around.

I think Chrysler needs to get a firm grip on their dealers. Tell the dealers this is the way its going to be...... If they don't let people sit in Vipers or drive them, then all they get are Darts and Caravans. :)

[FSTENUF]

Heck, when i traded in my 2001 rt/10. I had to get the owners son who was my sales person to get the key fob from his mom just to unlock it so i could just look at the inside. When i got in and sat down i thought they where going to have a stroke. I said if my a$$ fits in the seat we can talk real numbers. No numbers no deal and the car is still sitting there as of this morning. I went with tom ball online and had one shipped to my home and love it.

[TrackAire]

I don't think Tim will want to be associated with the Viper dying on his watch. I think he can turn it around.

I think Chrysler needs to get a firm grip on their dealers. Tell the dealers this is the way its going to be...... If they don't let people sit in Vipers or drive them, then all they get are Darts and Caravans. :)


Here is the question that needs to be answered....we have no idea what Chrysler, Fiat or the Board of Directors are allowing to be done with the Viper platform. If they don't give the go ahead, it doesn't matter what Tim tries to accomplish (even Bob Lutz in his heyday can't make something happen unless allowed and the project is funded by corporate).

The Gen 5 seems to have been done with a very limited budget. The success and sales history of the Gen 5 platform would dictate what and how much you invest in the next generation. Speculation is the only thing that can be discussed since FCA has not given potential consumers any idea of what might be in store for the Viper platform.

It doesn't matter how great Tim or Ralph are....if corporate does not give the green light and substantial funding, everybody associated with the Viper under their watch looks like a failure.

[mikesax]

I "DO NOT NOT NOT" know how the general public thinks-but obviously this TREMENDOUS automobile has NOT captured the HEARTS of TODAYS drivers!! IMO this car has just "THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF WRONG" going for it! At todays pricing I feel compelled to purchase a third!! People -the "driving public"-have changed a lot over the years!! I ENJOY immensely the "ESSENCE" that is the Viper!! Passionate drivers LOVE what this car has to offer-it truly is an American CLASSIC!!! EVERYTHING that was touched on from the launch to the reviews to the dealer network is correct-trying to launch SRT dealers was probably the correct approach to "garner" the upper end buyer-it's just that you asked Dodge dealers to become SRT dealers-at the Viper price point and hand made exclusivity you should have asked Ferrari or Maserati dealers to become SRT dealers!!! I HATE to see this car struggle-it does NOT deserve it!!

[daytonprowler]

Here is the question that needs to be answered....we have no idea what Chrysler, Fiat or the Board of Directors are allowing to be done with the Viper platform. If they don't give the go ahead, it doesn't matter what Tim tries to accomplish (even Bob Lutz in his heyday can't make something happen unless allowed and the project is funded by corporate).

The Gen 5 seems to have been done with a very limited budget. The success and sales history of the Gen 5 platform would dictate what and how much you invest in the next generation. Speculation is the only thing that can be discussed since FCA has not given potential consumers any idea of what might be in store for the Viper platform.

It doesn't matter how great Tim or Ralph are....if corporate does not give the green light and substantial funding, everybody associated with the Viper under their watch looks like a failure.

Yes, it's Tim's job to make the case to Chrysler.

[daytonprowler]

Heck, when i traded in my 2001 rt/10. I had to get the owners son who was my sales person to get the key fob from his mom just to unlock it so i could just look at the inside. When i got in and sat down i thought they where going to have a stroke. I said if my a$$ fits in the seat we can talk real numbers. No numbers no deal and the car is still sitting there as of this morning. I went with tom ball online and had one shipped to my home and love it.

When I encounter a dealer like that I always take the new car/truck (that I ended up buying at another dealer) back and show them what I bought. :)

[Mamba52]

[QUOTE=Stealth;70400]Those who think that the price of the current and future Vipers will be lower are engaging in wishful thinking. It will be necessary to pay to play, just as it is with other stellar cars. A stripped-down, de-contented car is not the answer. The C7Z, when loaded is anticipated to top $100k, and that is a mass-produced car sharing a frame and many parts with lesser models.

I will destroy any Gen 5 with my lesser model Z51 C7. I'm putting down a measly 650 RWHP. And I'm not having any IAT problems. 650 at 70 digress 650 at 105 digress. I will be at the wana go fast event in Clayton GA if anyone wants to have fun. Yes this is a 1/2 mile event. The good news I believe HP tuners will have something soon.

[Coloviper]

Well good luck with that! You appear to be on the wrong forum. Suggest you get in your lil red corvette and pedal you butt back to Chevy Land. Take your ripped off parts car BS with you.

[Mamba52]

Well good luck with that! You appear to be on the wrong forum. Suggest you get in your lil red corvette and pedal you butt back to Chevy Land. Take your ripped off parts car BS with you.

Really I thought this was the Viper Owners Association. Last time I checked I had one of them in my garage. Don't get pissed that the Gen5 has less HP then the challenger.

[cashcorn]

I will destroy any Gen 5 with my lesser model Z51 C7. I'm putting down a measly 650 RWHP. IS THAT STOCK?

[mnc2886]

I will destroy any Gen 5 with my lesser model Z51 C7. I'm putting down a measly 650 RWHP. And I'm not having any IAT problems. 650 at 70 digress 650 at 105 digress. I will be at the wana go fast event in Clayton GA if anyone wants to have fun. Yes this is a 1/2 mile event. The good news I believe HP tuners will have something soon.

Here you go.

http://attwiw.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg

[Bruce H.]

The stock C7 Z51 can't hang with anything for long on a road course when driven hard. Over-heated coolant, oil, and tranny for both stick and auto, A/C shut down to save the motor, rear brake pads that can wear out completely in one day, scuppered front tires, seized valves in the exhaust system from excess heat. And that's what one track friend experienced. Personally, I find them a fun car to pass.

Until they get things sorted it's oh oh, C7 on track...call 911. Hopefully the power modders will include better cooling.

[I Bin Therbefor]

One interesting point on the contention that the Viper needs to have the max HP in the corporation. Some time ago, Corvette didn't have the max HP in GM. When asked why, the corporate Corvette marketing lead's answer was something like - We (Corvette) are not in competition with those cars. He then showed a slide of cars Corvette considered as competition, they were all sports cars, not muscle cars or pony cars or whatever. The game has changed somewhat with muscle cars/pony cars becoming somewhat better as road track cars.
However, take the Challenger, 707 hp with ~4400 lbs vs 650 hp at ~3400 lbs. Tim's own comments on the Jay Leno interview indicated that the mass and size of the Challenger is what drove the hp and brake size. That power is good for about 15 minutes before the ignition starts dialing back the power due to heat sink. I'm not sure if that meant 15 minutes on a road track or 15 minutes of drag strip runs.
All in all, Dodge is doing a terrific job of marketing the Challenger correctly to its intended market. Further, IMO, Dodge dealers understand the typical muscle car buyer and that buyer feels comfortable in a Dodge dealership and with the kind of buyer experience he will have.
Given his body language in both presentations, I'll bet the Jay Leno buys a Challenger but does not buy a Viper although he presently has past models of both cars.
For me, the only thing I envy on the Challenger is the 8 speed auto trans.
I'm back to, what will Tim do? Where should he start? Equally important, how big of a budget does he have? How important is Viper success to the success of Dodge/SRT? Lastly, how long does Viper have to double in sales? Remember Tim is responsible for all of Dodge/SRT.

[ViperSmith]

I will destroy any Gen 5 with my lesser model Z51 C7. I'm putting down a measly 650 RWHP. IS THAT STOCK?

Hell disappear from his pointless yammering once the cars are tunable.

[Mamba52]

Great I get a cookie and get slammed. This car (Gen5) has forged pistons and gets bitch slapped by a C7 tuned with a blower. Hello that's why nobody wants one. Why pay 100k plus for a Viper. And yes can buy any car I want.

[Mamba52]

So I say again any Gen5 that would like too get bitch slapped by a C7 Vette please visit wanna go fast Clayton GA.

[05Commemorative]

Do they have a track there with corners? I guess not as you would not be making the bold statement. Even if not, kind of a bold statement for a risky move where you would be suggesting very equal HP and yet your C7 will be a couple hundred lbs heavier.


So I say again any Gen5 that would like too get bitch slapped by a C7 Vette please visit wanna go fast Clayton GA.

[ViperSmith]

So I say again any Gen5 that would like too get bitch slapped by a C7 Vette please visit wanna go fast Clayton GA.

Perhaps no one really cares, except you trying to prove something to yourself.

[Coloviper]

Who cares what you have in your garage? I was basing my response on the fact you seem to want to wear the burrs off the Corvettes barrel with your mouth every chance you get. Viper owner or not, your childish posts on Vette love are kind of funny.

[Nine Ball]

So I say again any Gen5 that would like too get bitch slapped by a C7 Vette please visit wanna go fast Clayton GA.

The C7 half-mile record happened at WannaGoFast here in TX last month. I bitch-slapped that C7 by 7 mph, and had the fastest RWD pass of the weekend, in my modded Viper. If you want to compare modded cars, who really cares? You could own the fastest base C7 in the world, but I'd still rather own my Viper. C7Z06, I have more interest in.

[TwinVipers]

So I say again any Gen5 that would like too get bitch slapped by a C7 Vette please visit wanna go fast Clayton GA.

When is this event? 650rwhp is nothing to Brag about btw! Lol

[Mamba52]

The C7 half-mile record happened at WannaGoFast here in TX last month. I bitch-slapped that C7 by 7 mph, and had the fastest RWD pass of the weekend, in my modded Viper. If you want to compare modded cars, who really cares? You could own the fastest base C7 in the world, but I'd still rather own my Viper. C7Z06, I have more interest in.


You have one bad ass Viper this is the reason I am keeping my Gen3. Over the winter she is going to get some major upgrades. Perhaps this is the reason the gen5 is not selling. The Nth moto Viper did 213 at the Chicago event.

[Mamba52]

When is this event? 650rwhp is nothing to Brag about btw! Lol


Yes your right but this is just the start. Hopefully the Gen5 will get some love with HP Tuners.

9/13 9/14 it's a sold out event. I will be racing the Viper on Saturday.

[Nine Ball]

You have one bad ass Viper this is the reason I am keeping my Gen3. Over the winter she is going to get some major upgrades. Perhaps this is the reason the gen5 is not selling. The Nth moto Viper did 213 at the Chicago event.

Then I'm sure you can understand that IF someone wanted to build a Gen V with 2,000 hp, they could. That AEM Infinity ECM with a custom Viper harness that Nth moto uses is only around $3500. I just bought the same setup for my '06, as I'll be going twins soon. Same could be done on a Gen V, if someone wanted. People that want to be able to tune the stock PCM just want simple bolt-on horsepower levels, and to alter the driving characteristics some. For guys who want real power, there are options.

Just making a point, that you are calling out stock Gen 5 cars to run your modified w/ supercharger C7. That makes no sense.

[BLUEVIPER]

I do not understand people thinking that I am bashing the Viper....1. Since I am a current owner. 2. Have owned three 3. Belong and support 2 Viper clubs 4. Travel the world and always try to where Viper/SRT logos and always promote Vipers when possible. Ask anyone who knows me...Viper is my favorite...and I can't wait to buy my next Viper.....but that does not stop me from responding to threads or voicing my opinion.
I filled out the Viper survey, like many of you, as soon as I noticed it in my inbox. But after taking the survey, I wondered who designed it? The new leadership at Dodge seems to actually have an understanding of both marketing and sales. Both of which will eventually dictate the future of our car...the VIPER. Tim, in my opinion has stepped up to the plate and made decisions which hopefully will clear lots and set up Dodge to be able to move forward. The survey was trash...a waste of time... and in terms of marketing what does it hope to accomplish. A better survey would have asked just three questions; what three things do you like the most of previous vipers and what three things do you want to see in future Vipers. I am a car guy, and to dispell

[BLUEVIPER]

sorry...hit the send button by mistake....all of the innuendos of me not having seen or driven a Gen V viper or other cars...I am very familiar with "many" cars (exotics or otherwise and have driven many). I think that Dodge needs to know what we really want in a car in order to make that car. Styling, power, etc. I'm sure are high up on everyone's list, but what else? We need to give a clear signal to Dodge as to what we want them to build. 700+ Horsepower Dodges are now a reality...and since Viper is the Halo car I would not worry to much about more horespower because I am sure that is on the way. But if Dodge is going to update the Viper in 2015-2016 we need to give them a clear indication of what we want so that it will cause excitement and have us all running to our dealerships to place orders....

[05Commemorative]

I am reading your response and then looking back at this thread that died last month and find myself confused. Just trying to understand the point you are trying to make now in relation to the thread?

From earlier posts, you want a conv and one does not exist yet, thus you are not a buyer and therefore have never driven a Gen5. Makes total sense, but are you trying to make a different point here on this thread now?


I do not understand people thinking that I am bashing the Viper....1. Since I am a current owner. 2. Have owned three 3. Belong and support 2 Viper clubs 4. Travel the world and always try to where Viper/SRT logos and always promote Vipers when possible. Ask anyone who knows me...Viper is my favorite...and I can't wait to buy my next Viper.....but that does not stop me from responding to threads or voicing my opinion.
I filled out the Viper survey, like many of you, as soon as I noticed it in my inbox. But after taking the survey, I wondered who designed it? The new leadership at Dodge seems to actually have an understanding of both marketing and sales. Both of which will eventually dictate the future of our car...the VIPER. Tim, in my opinion has stepped up to the plate and made decisions which hopefully will clear lots and set up Dodge to be able to move forward. The survey was trash...a waste of time... and in terms of marketing what does it hope to accomplish. A better survey would have asked just three questions; what three things do you like the most of previous vipers and what three things do you want to see in future Vipers. I am a car guy, and to dispell

[docwviper]

Tim give the other 120 of us certificates too. I know you are looking into it. I have a viper I'm keen on getting. Thanks.