LOL!! Viper Dynos are too Wussy to Handle Hellcat

[FrgMstr]

Dodge is speeding ahead in its alienation of its halo car fanclub!


In fact, the Hellcat is so powerful that Chrysler needed new dynos to test the engine – the ones used in Viper development weren't up to the challenge.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/16/2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-will-hit-199-mph-burn-1-5-gal/


The headlining Hellcat is anticipated to get from 0-60 in the "mid threes," says Tim Kiniskis, President and CEO of the Dodge brand, while storming all the way to a top speed of 199 miles per hour. The 707-hp, 650 pound-feet of torque monster is 91-percent new versus the standard 392 engine, so this isn't merely a case of adding more boost – the crank, pistons, connecting rods, and bottom-end are all new. It takes 80 horsepower just to drive the supercharger.

[FLATOUT]

They really don't seem too concerned about offending their customer base with the deepest pockets do they.

[FrgMstr]

Ha, just saw this over on the Hellcat website.


Bang Shift - Manually choose your gears with a venerable Tremec six-speed transmission with larger, higher-capacity clutch. There's a little Viper in the Challenger SRT® Hellcat.

Too bad there will be no "Hellcat" in the Viper....they do have a cool logo though!

5960

[Troublemaker]

Ha, just saw this over on the Hellcat website.

But I bet Dodge says the Viper uses the Hellcat transmission.

[Speedandstealth]

Just have to buy both and show them how deep our pockets really are!?......Hellcat grocery getter would be cool! :smilielol:

[FLATOUT]

Just have to buy both and show them how deep our pockets really are!?......Hellcat grocery getter would be cool! :smilielol:

I try not to reward poor behavior. I would still buy a CTSV as a daily over the Chally.

[Mopar Boy]

Have faith guys. These are cars guys. They get it. And Viper was under a different brand a few months ago and development funds would have been limited as a platform has to support itself. I am sure with Viper now being a Dodge again it wont be too long before Viper gets a bump. You all must remember around Chrysler, Viper is still a halo car for the brand.

If you know, or have ever spoken with Viper's engineer's, you know they believe in the car. Their hands I feel have just been tied.

I fully believe it is a matter of time. Have faith in the people and the brand guys.

[Murpowa]

I try not to reward poor behavior. I would still buy a CTSV as a daily over the Chally.

Absolutely. Love the second gen. CTS-V

[IndyRon]

This whole deal is only going to hurt Viper sales more. Even a 20-30hp bump isn't going to matter. They either need to redesign the Viper again to get folks excited or add 100+hp with forced induction. My concern is that they haven't shown interest in either. I'm hoping they don't do like Ford did with their Halo...discontinue the Viper like Ford did with the GT and have a supercharged Challenger as halo much as the GT500 Mustang is Fords best offering.

[Nine Ball]

Relax guys. SRT has been working on a supercharger system for the Viper. When/if we'll ever see it, that is the real question. Maybe the release of the 707hp Challenger was planned well, because that news would have been shadowed if they had unveiled an 800 hp Viper earlier.

Here is a question though, for the naysayers and Gen V haters here. If Dodge does unveil the 800 hp, what will your excuses be then? Would you actually buy one, or complain about something else? :)

[ViperSmith]

Relax guys. SRT has been working on a supercharger system for the Viper. When/if we'll ever see it, that is the real question. Maybe the release of the 707hp Challenger was planned well, because that news would have been shadowed if they had unveiled an 800 hp Viper earlier.

Here is a question though, for the naysayers and Gen V haters here. If Dodge does unveil the 800 hp, what will your excuses be then? Would you actually buy one, or complain about something else? :)

lmao at thinking the complaints won't end!

next up it will be CCB or perhaps steering wheel stitching thread is too thick

- - - Updated - - -

As for the sky is falling "omg viper isn't the halo car anymore" people, it is clear by the "it has some Viper in it" - that they know who is still the overall performance king within the brand. It isn't a 707hp pig :)

[XSnake]

Here is a question though, for the naysayers and Gen V haters here. If Dodge does unveil the 800 hp, what will your excuses be then? Would you actually buy one, or complain about something else? :)
They will be complaining about the price

[FLATOUT]

They will be complaining about the price

Yep lol.

A blower on my gen V will be fun.

[Nine Ball]

lmao at thinking the complaints won't end!

next up it will be CCB or perhaps steering wheel stitching thread is too thick

- - - Updated - - -

As for the sky is falling "omg viper isn't the halo car anymore" people, it is clear by the "it has some Viper in it" - that they know who is still the overall performance king within the brand. It isn't a 707hp pig :)

1. SRT supercharger kit is unveiled.
2. Media goes WOAH! at factory hp rating.
3. Kits get installed on existing inventory of Vipers at dealerships.
4. Demand on vehicle goes up, prices go back up.
5. People BITCH that they should have bought one when the prices were cheaper.

/crystal ball

[ViperSmith]

1. SRT supercharger kit is unveiled.
2. Media goes WOAH! at factory hp rating.
3. Kits get installed on existing inventory of Vipers at dealerships.
4. Demand on vehicle goes up, prices go back up.
5. People BITCH that they should have bought one when the prices were cheaper.

/crystal ball

If Dodge rolled out a supercharger that had a factory warranty... I dunno how they could keep them on the lots. Shit, I'd buy one and I already think 640 is more than I can handle.

[Tiago]

Here is a question though, for the naysayers and Gen V haters here. If Dodge does unveil the 800 hp, what will your excuses be then? Would you actually buy one, or complain about something else? :)

800 HP with some brakes at least as good as the hellcat and I'll sign the dotted line....

[MtnBiker]

Lipstick on a pig doesn't hide the fact that it's still a pig (Challenger). I want the Viper to remain NA, but please open the computer so those that want to can add FI. If they come out with an ACR resembling the GT-R I'm on it.

[TooBlue]

So Dodge had to get a "new" dyno to handle the Hellcat..????

So their existing dyno couldn't go 67 whp higher...????...Really...???

I don't think I've seen a dyno that wouldn't register at least 800 WHP.


I think that is just hype for the Hellcat...

[FLATOUT]

Agree at the expense of throwing Viper under the bus.


So Dodge had to get "new" dynes to handle the Hellcat..????

So their existing dynes couldn't go 67 hp higher...????...Really...???

I don't think I've seen a dyno that wouldn't register at least 800 WHP.


I think that is just hype for the Hellcat...

[Nine Ball]

800 HP with some brakes at least as good as the hellcat and I'll sign the dotted line....

No complaints about my Track Pack brakes, and I've pushed them hard. Quit making more topics for haters to complain about, bro!

[commandomatt]

I seriously doubt there is a single person cross shopping the Challenger and the Viper. They are not even in the same league and if someone claims that they would pick the Challenger due to the few extra HP, well, then they were never in the market for buying a Viper in the first place.

No doubt that the Dyno not being able to work for the Hellcat is a bunch of BS as well.

As been said.....the marketing for the Challenger is top notch. Its getting attention everywhere. Were was this marketing team when they tried to launch the Gen V ?

[swexlin]

So Dodge had to get "new" dynes to handle the Hellcat..????

So their existing dynes couldn't go 67 hp higher...????...Really...???

I don't think I've seen a dyno that wouldn't register at least 800 WHP.


I think that is just hype for the Hellcat...

Exactly. Our local guys who handle our diesel truck club events are using dynos handling trucks putting out 1100 hp, and 1500+ lb ft. I guess the engine dynos Dodge is using need re-working, or recalibrating, or something...

[FLATOUT]

Seriously he'll just put skinnies up front and parachute out back anyways :D



No complaints about my Track Pack brakes, and I've pushed them hard. Quit making more topics for haters to complain about, bro!

[TitleMine]

I'd be in for an SC model, but then again, I'm not one of the detractors. Gen V is an awesome car, and I'd love to have one. I've never met anyone remotely interested in the brand who has driven a Gen V for more than 30 minutes and not loved it.

[Murpowa]

If Dodge does unveil the 800 hp, what will your excuses be then? Would you actually buy one, or complain about something else? :)

Where do we begin!? I could see the following:

"The only thing the viper is good for is a straightline"

"Viper lost its roots"

"800 hp and it still does not have DCT"

The list could go on and on

[Simms]

Most of the haters couldn't use a 640hp Viper to its potential on the track, let alone a 700+ version.

[FLATOUT]

Most of the haters couldn't use a 640hp Viper to its potential on the track, let alone a 700+ version.

True but I'll gladly use 1000rwhp in the 1/4, 1/2, mile, and roll race events.

[IndyRon]

True but I'll gladly use 1000rwhp in the 1/4, 1/2, mile, and roll race events.

This....I want the car to pin you back at 80+ when you hit the accelerator in 3rd gear....and that means over 800rwhp.

[I Bin Therbefor]

IMO the number of Dodge dealers that understand and can market the Viper can be counted on one hand. The number of high level executives within FIAT that that understand and can market the Viper are quite large but DOES NOT INCLUDE the current head of Dodge who does understand and can market the Hellcat powered vehicles- i.e. - muscle cars. The Viper is not the halo car nor even the poster child starting with the SRT web site.

The best I can see for at this time is a kind of stealth existence for the Viper, some success in racing and sufficient funding to keep developing the car. Here are some words from Beth Paretta, Motorsports Director, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles: We need to be in the Northeast and possibly the Northwest as well as another city venue. Those do well to introduce casual and new fans to watching sports car racing live. We can't judge the success of a race weekend on the size of the grid. It has to be the size and quality of the crowd and the size and quality of the viewing audience at home. The work isn't done when the grid is filled. ( emphasis mine )

For me, that is a valid role for the Viper and a possibility to expand the market but I fear that buying experience provided by Dodge Dealers.

[Shooter]

I hope they make a 700+hp Viper. If they don't build a new ACR, I will not buy a new Gen V. I don't think I'm being a hater though.

[Newport Viper]

Whatever they do the top has got to drop. I only buy verts.... :car-smiley-003:

[slowhatch]

Whatever they do the top has got to drop. I only buy verts.... :car-smiley-003:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/8bd301b43fe3ff2e0408a6d207fb8d4a/tumblr_mkp5do8w0J1qdm4tlo1_500.gif

[FLATOUT]

Lmao



http://38.media.tumblr.com/8bd301b43fe3ff2e0408a6d207fb8d4a/tumblr_mkp5do8w0j1qdm4tlo1_500.gif

[Thawk97]

I think the Hellcat is demonstrating some marketing intelligence here. Even if it wasn't the Halo, making that statement and giving it some time to build up pre-orders etc. before refocussing on the Viper is probably going to increase sales just because of general marketing exposure. Replacing the Viper with Hellcat on the SRT site is a great marketing move in the short term since there isn't anything new with the Viper.

Even if the Viper comes back with a great announcement, I think we need to hand it to the folks at SRT for the focus on Hellcat. It's going to sell and it managed to believably unseat a tremendous vehicle (Viper) as being worthy of focus for now. That doesn't take away from the Viper at all, it just recognizes a really great move by Dodge/SRT.

Give the team some credit even though there were past blunders. It may be just the clean slate the Viper needed in terms of announcements - opportunity for re-introduction.

[mjorgensen]

The real question here that needs to be truthfully answered is what are "willing buyers" actually ready to pay for the next wish list Viper? Everyone has an idea about brakes, HP, S/C, ACR... but what is the price point where even if you got everything you would not buy because of price? Some will say at that point price does not matter, but we all know that is just a ploy to try and get SRT to give you the kitchen sink.

I'm asking what is the price people think is really fair if there was an ACR with 800+ hp and a new set of gigantic brakes because we all know that it can be done, but if you say it is too expensive why even try right?

[v10enomous]

<=$15k > Z06 Not saying what it's worth but what people would ACTUALLY be willing to pay.


The real question here that needs to be truthfully answered is what are "willing buyers" actually ready to pay for the next wish list Viper? Everyone has an idea about brakes, HP, S/C, ACR... but what is the price point where even if you got everything you would not buy because of price? Some will say at that point price does not matter, but we all know that is just a ploy to try and get SRT to give you the kitchen sink.

I'm asking what is the price people think is really fair if there was an ACR with 800+ hp and a new set of gigantic brakes because we all know that it can be done, but if you say it is too expensive why even try right?

[FLATOUT]

Very good question.

I think the sweet spot for Viper sales prices are 90-120K. ACR's on the high end and base SRT low option cars on the lower end. Once you get to 130K, to me atleast, I start looking at other exotic options.

If they built an 800hp blown ACR and it was priced at 130K I wouldn't be interested. If it was 120K I would probably pull the trigger. To me the TA hit this price point.



The real question here that needs to be truthfully answered is what are "willing buyers" actually ready to pay for the next wish list Viper? Everyone has an idea about brakes, HP, S/C, ACR... but what is the price point where even if you got everything you would not buy because of price? Some will say at that point price does not matter, but we all know that is just a ploy to try and get SRT to give you the kitchen sink.

I'm asking what is the price people think is really fair if there was an ACR with 800+ hp and a new set of gigantic brakes because we all know that it can be done, but if you say it is too expensive why even try right?

[Vprbite]

It's true that most people can't use the current amount of HP. Most people can't use the HP on my Gen 3 without training and practice. Anyone's first time at the track is an eye opener. When you get passed by a car with 280HP banging off the rev limiter you realize you don't know a damn thing yet and HP doesn't make or break a win. That being said, I think what "the haters" miss is that when the Viper debuted it was an absolute bull ride of an experience and it scared old ladies walking down the street. It scared some people just to look at it. In a world where 300HP was the tops of the performance car works the Viper hit and had 400HP and 450TQ and was something we had never seen. And it's design was a giant F-U to all who looked at it.

Now, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your viewpoint, it is a remarkably different world. Boring ass "mom" cars are getting 300HP easily out of a 6 or a 4. Engineering has advanced so much that simulations that took months on building and wind tunneling models now take hours on a computer. Manufacturing has cheapened so that even those previously mentioned "mom" cars have nice interiors. Any new Honda probably has an interior that would keep most mercedes buyers happy if they didnt see the badging. Look at how well Hyundai is doing for that matter. They sell a 54k dollar Equus and people buy it. Also, think of exotics. When we were kids, I less we lived in Beverly Hills or maybe an oil city (also a bit of a relic these days) most of us couldn't dream of seeing a Countache. The closest I could come was a poster and if I was lucky, a model. These days, probably due to the 90s and 2000s being the biggest period in economic growth in history and with the fact that people are ok with financing an entire car(it used to be you bought a car or didn't, or at least put a decent chunk down, now, anyone can get a loan on a car and a lot of people will take that loan no matter what the APR.) I bet we have all seen a number of late model exotics around. I love in Tucson, a town severely lacking in high level jobs and I see a gaillardo or ferrari or brand new Maserati at least weekly. When I had my shops in Scottsdale, it was at every stoplight. So bottom line, it won't be 1992 again for the Viper or any sub-million dollar car.

That being said, the Viper buyer likes knowing the performance is there even if we can't use it. And I bet most of us consider the NA V-10 a big part of that. If they bumped it to 750 with direct injection and other tweaks, I think that would be enough to keep even the most dug-in of the haters walking to the dealership. I myself would be running to buy a TA or adrenaline red SRT but people in my life insisted I pay my mortgage and be able to buy groceries. They said that was the "smart" call, whatever that means. I usually don't chime in on these threads but I really think the car is great as is, and had the marketing not behaved like a monkey effin a football, this discussion wouldn't even be happening. Look up some of the old Viper commercials. Now look up the new ones. You can't. Bit to tell you how badly the public wants this car, we all know the commercials in which it has been used. My favorite is the autotrader one that presents it as the new general lee car. Love it. Lexus even advertised the LFA, though the scant 300 of those were bought and paid for before they ever sniffed a car lot.

Really, I think if we all look, we are mostly mad at marketing. Not the car or the hellcat. Maybe a little mad at the press for creaming their....well lets say getting excited over the hellcat and not the viper. But if the Viper had enjoyed the backing of great marketing, this discussion probably wouldn't happen.

At least these are my thoughts. Feel free to rip me apart now.

[slowhatch]

I would still buy a CTSV as a daily over the Chally.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Dog-Slaps-Man-in-Face.gif

[FLATOUT]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Dog-Slaps-Man-in-Face.gif

HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA + Rep

[IndyRon]

I'd pay 130k in a heartbeat for 800+hp blown ACR. With a setup like that you are talking an easy 1000hp with pulley upgrades, intake, exhaust mods.

[Coloviper]

Mark;

That is an interesting question as the reality is the Viper has been overpriced for some time now, when they made the large jump from cars selling at $75k to then sell them at $92K, then selling the same basic car with HP increase in 2008 with a little aero (ala ACR but marketed it up another $20k on top of that base $92K. So to answer your question:

1. Gen 3/4 cars were overpriced by $20k and only really started to sell after the $20K rebates so in reality they were $75K cars period.

2. GEN V base is a bump of $8K-10K over GEN IV but then realistic options kicked it up significantly. The reality is the current cars are still over priced by around $30K average with desired options in them. Typical base Viper SRT WITH options in is still just a $100K car to start at the end of the day in the market. That is really all they are worth.

3. So a full load, everything in Viper ACR, market dictates this car should never go a penny above $135K. No current street Viper should.

Sorry but Vipers have been playing this pricing game for a very long time now and that is all the car is worth. Justify it as you might but that is all the car is worth when you really look at it for what it is.

I think SRT hit the nail firmly on the head with the base price of an G5 SRT Coupe, it's just it should have come standard with a few more options at that price. That is a proper price given the new GEN and upgrades but the options available, GTS base price, etc. are where they are completely out there. The prices just go completely stupid from there. Reality is it was probably cheaper to have all cars have an 18 speaker stereo system, then offer three variations to choose. There is just not enough volume to call for 3 options for that. Same for suspension. Just make them all GTS suspensions.

There should only be a base GTS car at X and then anyone can add what options they want like the hood they want or whatever but should only have one upgrade choice, not multiple levels of upgrade considering the small quantities. If they do want even above that, then they go to full SRT custom design studio similar to Mulliner for Bentley or whoever for the other brands.

Comes down to the options are just way, way over Viper taxed. Most would be considered standard practice for a high end vehicle of this caliber today.

don't know if that answers your question mark but best I could do.

[slowhatch]

Mark;

...when they made the large jump from cars selling at $75k to then sell them at $92K...


inflation.

[Thawk97]

Validation of what we've all been told (and have known): Why the Hellcat Engine Won't Make it into the Viper

https://autos.yahoo.com/news/hell-no-why-srt-hellcat-v-8-wont-200619234.html

[Next Phase]

I seriously doubt there is a single person cross shopping the Challenger and the Viper. They are not even in the same league and if someone claims that they would pick the Challenger due to the few extra HP, well, then they were never in the market for buying a Viper in the first place.

No doubt that the Dyno not being able to work for the Hellcat is a bunch of BS as well.

As been said.....the marketing for the Challenger is top notch. Its getting attention everywhere. Were was this marketing team when they tried to launch the Gen V ?

Believe it or not, I'm cross shopping the Hellcat and Gen 5.

Looking at adding a Hellcat Or trading the Gen 2 GTS in on a Gen 5. Im leaning towards the Hellcat for the backseat (3 year old son).

[Sybil TF]

Im leaning towards the Hellcat for the backseat (3 year old son).Challenger has a very roomy back seat compared to a Mustang or Camaro.

[Troublemaker]

Challenger has a very roomy back seat compared to a Mustang or Camaro.

There are so many places I want to go with that, but will leave it alone.

[Snakebit]

That's why they call you the Troublemaker. :p