caap close another 2 weeks since the 4th wekend [Archive]

Nine Ball

07-07-2014, 02:17 PM

Copy/Paste of text:

"You've got to hand it to Dodge (http://www.autoblog.com/dodge/) for having the gumption to put the original Viper (http://www.autoblog.com/srt/viper/) into production in the first place. It was, after all, much more of an emotional decision than a practical one, and a move which saw the first production V10 engine placed in a road car – long before the advent of the Lamborghini Gallardo (http://www.autoblog.com/lamborghini/gallardo/), Audi R8 (http://www.autoblog.com/audi/r8/), Porsche Carrera GT (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/porsche+carrera+gt/) or Lexus LFA (http://www.autoblog.com/lexus/lfa/), not to mention the other Ford (http://www.autoblog.com/ford/), BMW (http://www.autoblog.com/bmw/) and Volkswagen Group (http://www.autoblog.com/volkswagen/) models that used such engines.

It's now been 22 years since the first Viper entered production and the Viper still rolls on several generations later, but we're sad to say that courageous decision has not always been met with overwhelming sales success. In fact parent Chrysler was forced to idle the Conner Avenue plant (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/03/19/srt-viper-plant-idled-over-slow-sales/) where the Viper is made back in April due to slow sales. And while production resumed again as planned on June 23, it apparently didn't do the trick.

As a result, Chrysler corporate communications chief Shawn Morgan revealed to Autoblog that the assembly line has been shut down again for another two weeks. The line was up and running for nearly two full work weeks from June 23 until the holiday weekend that started on Thursday, July 3. But instead of coming back online today as planned, it's been idled again for the weeks of July 7 and 14. That means it will be July 21, at the earliest, before the serpentine supercars start slithering down the assembly line at Conner Avenue again. Once it does, however, production is set to resume at the same pace it was before the shutdown.

The hiatus was originally undertaken to help Chrysler sell off its stockpiled inventory of unsold Vipers it had amassed as production outpaced sales. Reports pegged that number at 756 units, but Chrysler tells us that it does not disclose supply of individual models - only "on a company wide basis," according to Morgan. She did confirm to Autoblog, however, that despite the 91 workers who were originally projected to be laid off from the Conner Avenue plant, the final number of UAW-represented workers to be laid off has been reduced to 82. An unspecified number of hourly workers will also receive certain unemployment benefits as well.

Once production of the Viper - which will return as a Dodge (http://www.autoblog.com/dodge/) product as the SRT (http://www.autoblog.com/srt/) brand is brought back into the fold - will resume, we hope it will be here to stay, and that the remaining workers will be able to get back to work with no further interruptions."

canadian viper

07-07-2014, 02:24 PM

i hope for the ones that are waiting for their cars, they are shipped now and not wait another 2 or 3 weeks.

Nine Ball

07-07-2014, 02:26 PM

They might be shutting it down to prepare/clean up for the homecoming event in 2 weeks. Looks like they start back up after that event.

FLATOUT

07-07-2014, 02:27 PM

Saw a tweet from a plant worker go out this morning. Interesting.

Bill Pemberton

07-07-2014, 02:35 PM

Chrysler Plants all shut down in July for two weeks to get ready to retool for the next year's production. This has been standard operating procedure for years and years, so this is not unexpected and would never be news except for the fact that the Plant was down prior.

ViperSmith

07-07-2014, 02:39 PM

OMG sky is falling!

Stealth

07-07-2014, 02:46 PM

Sounds, guardedly, like standard operating procedures. The only part I do not understand, is how 2015s' could be on the line now with no open orders and no refresh specs announced.

Hopefully, this will be clarified shortly as many of us are considering the purchase of Gen 13/14 Gen Vs and would like to know the nature of the alleged 2015 "refresh" before we plunk down six digits for a toy! The Hellcat release only heightened the mystery... .

Policy Limits

07-07-2014, 03:18 PM

I read that the refresh is about a year away. So it's prolly a 2016 model year vehicle?

They should've just made what people wanted. Hundreds of customers, myself included, put thousands of dollars down on deposit to build custom spec car orders. Instead of building them, they made other cars for dealers. That was frustrating to see esp for Venom V who waited the longest and paid the most for that Stryker paint job. Now people are saying that they want targa, roadster, convertible and ACR variants. Should they listen this time? Or would that further hurt the damage done with all of the unsold inventory? On the one hand history repeats itself and on the other might not want to add fuel to a fire. There's no easy answer and I'm glad I'm not the one who needs to decide.

Austin

07-07-2014, 03:19 PM

A year away for the refresh? How? They said it was going to be a 2015 model refresh. WTF?

Policy Limits

07-07-2014, 03:28 PM

I believe they stated a mid 2015 refresh. Mid 2015 is one year from now. Whether it will be MY15 or 16 or both is speculative. Folks anticipate news at the big viper event. I know I do.

Coloviper

07-07-2014, 07:26 PM

Well logic dictates that if sales are hurting now, they can not wait a year on the same formula. Viper is niche and can change relatively quick if needed. It is needed, and go time! I suspect they will change now.

mikesax

07-07-2014, 09:00 PM

This car kicks the ass of the vette and most exotics in EVERY way!! Performance, fit and finish, WOW factor when seen- it's truly a shame to see miniscule sales!! Time to "step it UP"-we should be kicking ass in the pits and in the press!! Oh yeah-we are starting to kick it in "the PITS"!! Let's get positive "DODGE"-we have the only "hand built" car made in the US-"NOTHING" compares-GENERATE some POSITIVITY!!!!!

Newport Viper

07-07-2014, 10:04 PM

Folks anticipate news at the big viper event. I know I do.

I fully anticipate 100% an announcement on a Vert. (And maybe a slight 10HP bump) They aren't going to have all these folks come up there and not have something cool ready to go.

Or put one of these in it. http://www.ilmor.com/en/marine/performance/MV10-725.aspx

Policy Limits

07-09-2014, 07:03 AM

Then again...

Bruce H.

07-09-2014, 08:15 AM

I'm still thinking vert, and a minor re-jigging of standard features and option packages...and maybe the Mopar ECU! None of that would make the coupe inventory any less desirable, and it would provide the attention and press to re-introduce the Gen V without hiccups hopefully. The best days for the Viper are yet to come. You read it here first!

mikesax

07-09-2014, 09:03 AM

That's what I like to hear Bruce-'THE BEST DAYS ARE YET TO COME"!!!!!

Austin

07-09-2014, 10:42 AM

Sadly, I dont think anything significant will be shown. Im sure there will be some new colors to see though. *rolls eyes*

VENOM V

07-09-2014, 11:19 AM

I'm betting on a very minor refresh for 2015. At homecoming, I think they will unveil the ACR for 2016 model year.

Austin

07-09-2014, 11:26 AM

I'm betting on a very minor refresh for 2015. At homecoming, I think they will unveil the ACR for 2016 model year.

Pffffft. LMAO

VENOM V

07-09-2014, 12:14 PM

Pffffft. LMAO

It may be too early for an ACR unveiling, but it's coming.

Austin

07-09-2014, 12:37 PM

It may be too early for an ACR unveiling, but it's coming.

How do you figure? They havent even announced a convertible.

VENOM V

07-09-2014, 02:18 PM

I spoke with Ben Keating when he raced at Laguna Seca. Nothing is certain with bean counters making much of the decisions, but he thought the ACR is very likely and will be out before the convertible.

How do you figure? They havent even announced a convertible.

Torquemonster06

07-09-2014, 02:30 PM

I'd like that!!!!

Murpowa

07-09-2014, 03:08 PM

I posted something similar in another thread, BUT...

I'd love if Venom V was right, however, don't we think atleast ONE spy photo or slip of the tongue from an employee by now? Is the SRT team secretly testing the next ACR as one of the race cars? I'd like to think dodge/SRT has pretty tight lips but even rumors off the hellcat surfaced well before it's formal announcement.

Stealth

07-09-2014, 03:10 PM

All Dodge needs to do to move the 2014 standing Coupe inventory is release Factory Incentives. This would clear the way for the 2015s. I know I am waiting to purchase with 2 Dealers on cars right now.

VRYALT3R3D

07-09-2014, 04:01 PM

How do you figure? They havent even announced a convertible.

SRT teased an ACR at the detroit auto show:

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/adam/33e8448d74abc606ad568de798e6f0de/srt-viper-stryker-green-detroit.jpg

Dman

07-09-2014, 04:28 PM

I'm betting on a very minor refresh for 2015. At homecoming, I think they will unveil the ACR for 2016 model year.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

I'll be disappointed to not see the vert released in '15. They showed the submitted design to us 2yrs ago, that should be enough time for it to come out, in my expert auto industry opinion, lol.

If they show the submitted design for the ACR this yr, then we could see it in '16 since it'll be a coupe, etc. and they now know the specs on the C7Z06.

Coloviper

07-09-2014, 05:27 PM

Vert will be a unveiled to us in Detroit! The surprise will be what's under the hood. Get ready to be amazed boys and girls. Some will love and others will question the decision.

Lawrenzo

07-09-2014, 05:34 PM

Vert will be a unveiled to us in Detroit! The surprise will be what's under the hood. Get ready to be amazed boys and girls. Some will love and others will question the decision. If it's more power very few will question. If they are going to simply drop the current 6.4l V8 in as a cheaper version then there will definitely be some pitchfork carrying folks.

I Bin Therbefor

07-09-2014, 05:46 PM

I hope I'm over reacting but the Viper is no loner the feature car on the Drive SRT site. In fact it doesn't appear in the headline pictures at all. No longer the halo car?

IMO, Dodge knows how to sell muscle cars but no one at Chrysler knows how to sell Vipers and only a handful of dealers have learned the trick. Further, the details of the introduction were badly executed. Ralph had all the right concepts but God is in the details of execution, to paraphrase a saying from architecture. I'm not saying that Team Viper didn't work hard, but they didn't execute effectively. As a small example, never trust the motoring press. These are the same guys that posted pictures of frying eggs on the sills of previous Vipers. One mag uses an alleged racing driver that can't tell the wheels on the car he is driving are out of line? As for sales, the easiest sale is an improved product to an existing customer, the hardest is a new product to a new customer. The announcement was fine, the delivery should have been TA like cars to existing customers to build up production and revenue, than start working the GTS market of new customers. And for gosh sakes get the tuners involved before the release date!

So now what? I want Viper to succeed. I hope for the best but expect the worse - a lingering death.:furious:

I Bin Therbefor

07-09-2014, 05:50 PM

If it's more power very few will question. If they are going to simply drop the current 6.4l V8 in as a cheaper version then there will definitely be some pitchfork carrying folks.

Up to now, the party line has been that the chassis is too narrow to permit installation of the V8 because of the width of the heads. Chassis packaging is also the company line excuse for no automatic trans. Maybe need a new chassis?:lol2:

Policy Limits

07-09-2014, 05:53 PM

How ironic that one of the coolest most exciting super cars in the market today doesn't sell well. Can it be that only five or six hundred of us owners see this?

The reality is people don't want to push a clutch in, they want paddle shifters. And they don't want a driver's car they want a video game. It speaks volumes that no Porsche GT3 no Ferrari & no Lamborghini today can be ordered with a manual transmission. That's awful! At least have the option. We still have R8 V10, Z06 and Viper with three pedals on the floor...for now.

Voice of Reason

07-09-2014, 06:28 PM

Up to now, the party line has been that the chassis is too narrow to permit installation of the V8 because of the width of the heads. Chassis packaging is also the company line excuse for no automatic trans. Maybe need a new chassis?:lol2:

I'm not an engineer but I would imagine a large hammer would get the job done, a complete chassis redesign is overkill.

Put the Hellcat engine and trans in it. If that's what it takes to survive then it's worth it.

Schen

07-09-2014, 07:13 PM

I'm not an engineer but I would imagine a large hammer would get the job done, a complete chassis redesign is overkill.

Put the Hellcat engine and trans in it. If that's what it takes to survive then it's worth it.

No.

--RS

Stealth

07-09-2014, 07:13 PM

My guess is that 2015 will be the same as 2014 but with different option packages, colors, etc. The long shot is a vert or acr announcement since there have been zero leaks, photos, etc. It would need to be for much later in 2014 or in 2015 in terms of production. The longest shot of all is more power. For this I believe they need a new, re-certified engine which sounds great but makes no sense from most angles.

Until then, the waiting and guessing continues!

Long live the Viper!

ViperSmith

07-09-2014, 07:28 PM

My guess, if anything - 2015 same as 2014, minor differences

2016, if it happens, the Vert and perhaps no or very limited coupes.

Basically, if you want a coupe, buy it now.

Viper vince

07-09-2014, 07:59 PM

Let's look at the existing inventory! Way to much inventory at a very high price. I cannot see the bean counters letting them spend any more money on a car that they cannot sell. If I were an SRT dealer and spent $25k to become a dealer and they dropped the SRT name and let any dealership sell the viper I would be very pissed! IMO I think 2015 will be the last year for the Viper!

Austin

07-09-2014, 08:44 PM

That is NOT a hint at an ACR. That's just some stupid little wing put on an SRT. God forbid thats what the actual ACR would look like (if there ever were to be one) because that's not extreme looking enough.

SRT teased an ACR at the detroit auto show:

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/adam/33e8448d74abc606ad568de798e6f0de/srt-viper-stryker-green-detroit.jpg

VENOM V

07-09-2014, 09:40 PM

ViperSmith

07-09-2014, 09:53 PM

I knew this thread would get the juices flowing, lol. How many of you guys will be there at the Homecoming? May and I will be there, along with a bunch of the NorCal guys. I for one won't be disappointed if there is not some huge reveal, just looking forward to the experience.

I wonder how many complaining and predicting the disappearance of the car are going to buy a Vert or ACR

I would wager very, very few.

Such vocal non customers.

Newport Viper

07-09-2014, 10:22 PM

Somebody do something quick!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Viper-Grand-Touring-2014-dodge-srt-viper-grand-touring-coupe-/111394170296?forcerrptr=true&hash=item19ef9c25b8&item=111394170296&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

cubican

07-09-2014, 10:29 PM

Wow!! A brand new viper sold for 73,600 and that's for a 14 model.

Coloviper

07-09-2014, 11:17 PM

I doubt it. Bidding ended does not mean sold, even though it may say sold. More than likely the seller just ended the bidding before selling it or she'll bid the top bidder. Happens on EBAY all the time. Look at the shell bidder history. 46% of the bidder's 146 bids have been spent on the seller, which is a dealership. Seems strange.

A week away before Detroit, can't wait. Hey if they only sold 2015 verts, that would not hurt 2012/2014 Coupe sales.

05Commemorative

07-09-2014, 11:18 PM

and yet a post just a couple up says the problem is the high price... Seriously folks, if you don't have one, stop complaining about everything and just go get one. If you can't afford it, then you are not a customer anyways so your opinions are, well, meaningless.

The Only real valid excuses people have for not getting are:
1) financial - can't afford one even in the 80-100k range
2) desire a convertible
3) desire an ACR
4) don't like the looks
5) can't mod it? (I guess, but that group must be on a gen3 or older)

Wow!! A brand new viper sold for 73,600 and that's for a 14 model.

05Commemorative

07-09-2014, 11:19 PM

If you want to succeed, go buy one.

I hope I'm over reacting but the Viper is no loner the feature car on the Drive SRT site. In fact it doesn't appear in the headline pictures at all. No longer the halo car?

IMO, Dodge knows how to sell muscle cars but no one at Chrysler knows how to sell Vipers and only a handful of dealers have learned the trick. Further, the details of the introduction were badly executed. Ralph had all the right concepts but God is in the details of execution, to paraphrase a saying from architecture. I'm not saying that Team Viper didn't work hard, but they didn't execute effectively. As a small example, never trust the motoring press. These are the same guys that posted pictures of frying eggs on the sills of previous Vipers. One mag uses an alleged racing driver that can't tell the wheels on the car he is driving are out of line? As for sales, the easiest sale is an improved product to an existing customer, the hardest is a new product to a new customer. The announcement was fine, the delivery should have been TA like cars to existing customers to build up production and revenue, than start working the GTS market of new customers. And for gosh sakes get the tuners involved before the release date!

So now what? I want Viper to succeed. I hope for the best but expect the worse - a lingering death.:furious:

cubican

07-09-2014, 11:23 PM

Lawrenzo

07-10-2014, 12:48 AM

Chorps

07-10-2014, 01:28 AM

That is NOT a hint at an ACR. That's just some stupid little wing put on an SRT. God forbid thats what the actual ACR would look like (if there ever were to be one) because that's not extreme looking enough.

They showed us the ACR already...I hope.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/06/srt-viper-gt3r.jpg

TwinVipers

07-10-2014, 01:57 AM

They showed us the ACR already...I hope.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/06/srt-viper-gt3r.jpg

Now this car I would :monkeyleft:

Policy Limits

07-10-2014, 05:47 AM

Oh yeah. They need a street legal version of that stat. It's an airplane.

Austin

07-10-2014, 07:48 AM

They showed us the ACR already...I hope.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/06/srt-viper-gt3r.jpg

We only wish.

Nine Ball

07-10-2014, 07:49 AM

I would try my hardest to buy a street version of the GT3-R, no doubt. In that exact color combo.

I wonder how many complaining and predicting the disappearance of the car are going to buy a Vert or ACR

I would wager very, very few.

Such vocal non customers.

Don't be silly. It costs nothing to complain! These guys just want to drive the prices down on the current cars, so by the time they buy them third-hand, they'll be affordable.

Austin

07-10-2014, 08:18 AM

This is one douchey comment. I've been around the Viper forums for over 10 years and have always supported the Viper. Granted, I may not like every choice they've made, but neither has everyone else. Not only have I supported the Viper, but I've contributed to the forums a great deal. You can bet your fucking ass Im going to give my opinion, whether I can afford one at the moment or not. Trust me, if I could afford a GEN V, I would be all over one TODAY. So, sit back and get ready for my opinions, ass.

and yet a post just a couple up says the problem is the high price... Seriously folks, if you don't have one, stop complaining about everything and just go get one. If you can't afford it, then you are not a customer anyways so your opinions are, well, meaningless.

The Only real valid excuses people have for not getting are:
1) financial - can't afford one even in the 80-100k range
2) desire a convertible
3) desire an ACR
4) don't like the looks
5) can't mod it? (I guess, but that group must be on a gen3 or older)

Policy Limits

07-10-2014, 10:17 AM

HobokenViper

07-10-2014, 10:46 AM

Here's an idea (strike it if its silly): why not have group purchases to get better deals? The advantage to the dealer is to move unsold inventory, collect dealer hold back, make a reasonable profit and to eliminate floor plan interest/exposure. The advantage to the group buyer would be to buy less than MSRP and at or near invoice (or perhaps lower depending on the circumstances). Just a thought. I know of ten guys who threw in 100k each to buy a million dollar vacation spot & they rotate usage and never have to pay for a vacation again. If it works for real estate, why not cars?

Just a thought.

Doesn't work for cars because of a thing called car insurance. I don't believe you can have a car registered or insured under several different people all residing at different addresses. Just doesn't work that way, and if someone did it under their own name while sharing with a group "illegally", it would open up lots of major liabilities if someone else crashed it or even got a ticket in the car.

ACRucrazy

07-10-2014, 10:58 AM

Policy Limits

07-10-2014, 11:33 AM

Doesn't work for cars because of a thing called car insurance. I don't believe you can have a car registered or insured under several different people all residing at different addresses. Just doesn't work that way, and if someone did it under their own name while sharing with a group "illegally", it would open up lots of major liabilities if someone else crashed it or even got a ticket in the car.

To clarify, the buyers would all purchase their own vehicles to be titled in their own respective name exclusively. But buy in bulk similtaneously so as to get a better price. Perhaps the real estate analogy wasn't on point.

Nine Ball

07-10-2014, 01:02 PM

I would like to participate in a McLaren P1 buy-in, but the car has to be stored at my house. The other 99 buyers would need to come for conjugal visits. Deal!

Dman

07-10-2014, 01:07 PM

Still there, for 103,550

"Winning bid" says $73k, that can't possibly be right. Right?! No way that happened.

ViperSmith

07-10-2014, 01:10 PM

I would like to participate in a McLaren P1 buy-in, but the car has to be stored at my house. The other 99 buyers would need to come for conjugal visits. Deal!

I am going to go whine on mclaren life for two years because the P1 is too expensive, IMHO.

Policy Limits

07-10-2014, 02:34 PM

Now THAT, Harold, is funny as hell!!!

Fatboy 18

07-10-2014, 04:08 PM

If you ordered a 14 SRT Viper, will it now come branded as a Dodge?

Ginja

07-10-2014, 04:36 PM

I am going to go whine on mclaren life for two years because the P1 is too expensive, IMHO.

I live near the Goodwood circuit in the UK and have seen P1's on the road here and to my eyes they look pretty silly. Definitely not got the presence or character of the original F1. But that's just my opinion and I'm a rare breed here, preferring my American muscle over the more traditional, over priced, over complicated European fare.

Policy Limits

07-10-2014, 06:14 PM

If $ were no object I'd get an Agera, Pagani, 918, Aventador & Laferrari. Not big on Veyron and I know the pricetag. The best American are Saleen S7, Ford GT, Viper, Falcon. Spyker is Big Bang for the buck. The new Wraith has the best craftsmanship I've ever seen in a vehicle. The P1 is wild. 650s is too. I want them all.

05Commemorative

07-10-2014, 11:22 PM

did you read just one line of the post and get upset? Seriously, lets say you build and sell a product. Do you really care about the opinions of those that can't afford your product? Should you? (you probably care most, if not completely about those that can afford and are in the market for it)

Should I go on the Bugatti Veyron forums (if they even exist) and comment on how they are priced too high are wish they had better leather or .... when I know I can't afford one? Should I go on the Vette Forums slamming the C7 when I know I will never buy one? Sure, I guess I can have opinions on anything and share them too, but think important to keep in perspective the value of those opinions. Share away.

This is one douchey comment. I've been around the Viper forums for over 10 years and have always supported the Viper. Granted, I may not like every choice they've made, but neither has everyone else. Not only have I supported the Viper, but I've contributed to the forums a great deal. You can bet your fucking ass Im going to give my opinion, whether I can afford one at the moment or not. Trust me, if I could afford a GEN V, I would be all over one TODAY. So, sit back and get ready for my opinions, ass.

Austin

07-11-2014, 07:58 AM

HobokenViper

07-11-2014, 08:47 AM

Nope. I read the whole thing. My point is, I do not care if SRT listens to my opinions or not, I have opinions to share and will do so, as I'm no n00b here to the forums, nor the Viper. If we were strictly going by the people who actually own one on here at the moment, it'd just be a handful of you in a circle-jerk. Someone has to break that shit up.;) So, with that said, I will be working my ass off to get a GEN V, but in the meantime I have opinions to share.:devilish:

Austin, no need to get so angry or confrontational here. Of course everyone's opinions count, but I know what he means with what he is saying, and maybe you misunderstood and took it too personally. While it's great to hear everyone's opinions, there are too many trolls that go to any forum site and look to shake things up and stir the pot. Aside from that, there are also people who are fans of the Viper, but have never owned one, and may or may not ever be able to buy one in the future. While it's great to hear from those people, the opinions that matter the most are from actual owners who have actually driven the car giving their honest take on their feelings and reviews of it, and what they might want it to have if it's missing something. This is just my take on what he is saying.....

And you mentioned that if only the owners were the ones posting, it would be a bunch of guys just patting each other on the back and boasting about themselves and their cars, but I don't think that's the case at all. I've seen lots of positive and some negative feedback in every Gen forum on here from actual owners with tons of helpful advice from actual owners, and I don't see how "breaking that sh-t up" from someone who supports the Viper but doesn't own the gen he is giving strong opinions on accomplishes anything at all?

Just chill man, and I look forward to seeing pics of your Gen 5 one day when you finally get one.

On another note, I really thought things were picking up in sales of the Viper this year...? Guess I heard wrong. Hope things turn around soon because it's sad to see what I consider to be the greatest Viper yet have such poor sales success and would hate for this to be the last Viper Generation produced.....I would have one in my garage now as well if it wasn't for buying a house last year, and just having a new baby boy last week. Hopefully it's still around when I'm able to finally buy one.....

Utahviper

07-11-2014, 09:01 AM

Hey captain,

I can afford a new gen5 and your list doesn't include my reason or reasons. Austin is an asset to this community. Could you always afford one? No! You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. I'm wondering if all the SRT employees could afford one, maybe they should just quit their jobs because their opinion means nothing. This is an open forum, not a closed/private one only for owners or those who can afford it right now.

I goto the lambo forums all the time, I couldn't always afford one and didn't own one. Times have changed. There are many who post on there that can't afford one but they rarely get run off or asked to not post their opinion.

Now, where is that ignore button again.

did you read just one line of the post and get upset? Seriously, lets say you build and sell a product. Do you really care about the opinions of those that can't afford your product? Should you? (you probably care most, if not completely about those that can afford and are in the market for it)

Should I go on the Bugatti Veyron forums (if they even exist) and comment on how they are priced too high are wish they had better leather or .... when I know I can't afford one? Should I go on the Vette Forums slamming the C7 when I know I will never buy one? Sure, I guess I can have opinions on anything and share them too, but think important to keep in perspective the value of those opinions. Share away.

ViperSmith

07-11-2014, 09:10 AM

lmao, I do feel for Dodge. You can't please everyone.

Same thing happens for my line of work. "Hey if you add this feature to your software, we'll buy it!" - you add it, they still don't buy it.

Non-customers are annoyingly demanding to be pleased.

Austin

07-11-2014, 09:15 AM

Im chill. And trust me, I totally understand and agree with his point to a certain extent, but the Viper forums tend to push people away if you dont own a Viper. Lots of members (not all) seem to think that if you're not an an owner or never have been, that somehow you're less of an asset to the community. I personally do not agree with that and feel the need to stick up for myself and others who do not currently own a Viper. Im not a troll and am here for the same reasons everyone else is; because I am a huge Viper guy, and car guy in general. I've had lots of people knock me over the years because I dont own a Viper, well that shit gets annoying, especially when I've done more for the forums/community than they probably have. Anyway, there is my rant.

Austin, no need to get so angry or confrontational here. Of course everyone's opinions count, but I know what he means with what he is saying, and maybe you misunderstood and took it too personally. While it's great to hear everyone's opinions, there are too many trolls that go to any forum site and look to shake things up and stir the pot. Aside from that, there are also people who are fans of the Viper, but have never owned one, and may or may not ever be able to buy one in the future. While it's great to hear from those people, the opinions that matter the most are from actual owners who have actually driven the car giving their honest take on their feelings and reviews of it, and what they might want it to have if it's missing something. This is just my take on what he is saying.....

And you mentioned that if only the owners were the ones posting, it would be a bunch of guys just patting each other on the back and boasting about themselves and their cars, but I don't think that's the case at all. I've seen lots of positive and some negative feedback in every Gen forum on here from actual owners with tons of helpful advice from actual owners, and I don't see how "breaking that sh-t up" from someone who supports the Viper but doesn't own the gen he is giving strong opinions on accomplishes anything at all?

Just chill man, and I look forward to seeing pics of your Gen 5 one day when you finally get one.

On another note, I really thought things were picking up in sales of the Viper this year...? Guess I heard wrong. Hope things turn around soon because it's sad to see what I consider to be the greatest Viper yet have such poor sales success and would hate for this to be the last Viper Generation produced.....I would have one in my garage now as well if it wasn't for buying a house last year, and just having a new baby boy last week. Hopefully it's still around when I'm able to finally buy one.....

05Commemorative

07-11-2014, 09:16 AM

You don't appear to be reading the sentiment of this. The point was to put in perspective and Hoboken describes it well. If you can afford and have a different reason, then just share it. That is valuable information and that was my point. If you have driven one and seen in person, then even more valuable. Please share.

Hey captain,

I can afford a new gen5 and your list doesn't include my reason or reasons. Austin is an asset to this community. Could you always afford one? No! You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. I'm wondering if all the SRT employees could afford one, maybe they should just quit their jobs because their opinion means nothing. This is an open forum, not a closed/private one only for owners or those who can afford it right now.

I goto the lambo forums all the time, I couldn't always afford one and didn't own one. Times have changed. There are many who post on there that can't afford one but they rarely get run off or asked to not post their opinion.

Now, where is that ignore button again.

Austin

07-11-2014, 09:18 AM

Thanks for the backup. You know, its funny, Im also very much into Lambos, and know quite a bit about them and have been on the Lambo forums for years. NOT ONCE has anyone from those forums ever tried to silence me on my opinions because I do not own a Lambo.

Hey captain,

I can afford a new gen5 and your list doesn't include my reason or reasons. Austin is an asset to this community. Could you always afford one? No! You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong. I'm wondering if all the SRT employees could afford one, maybe they should just quit their jobs because their opinion means nothing. This is an open forum, not a closed/private one only for owners or those who can afford it right now.

I goto the lambo forums all the time, I couldn't always afford one and didn't own one. Times have changed. There are many who post on there that can't afford one but they rarely get run off or asked to not post their opinion.

Now, where is that ignore button again.

Coloviper

07-11-2014, 09:25 AM

Reality is everyone's opinion counts for something. EVERYONE is a prospective buyer at some point whether they can afford one at the moment or not.

The individual who owns one now, their opinion is valid as it is real world feedback but he has already bought the car so is it anymore valid for future product development and offering than someone who does own one right now but is looking at it and considering it. I don't think it is. He/she may not afford one this year but circumstances change and they can just afford one next year. You can not count out or dismiss only the diehards.

The individual who can not afford one now, their opinion is valid as it is what they would like to see to consider the car in the future but the real world feedback from actual owners is valid as it educates that person on why then should consider the history and why it was never offered with an automatic, this or that. That is a very important process as we are welcoming new people into the Viper family and they should be educated on the Viper, it's history, etc. not just the latest car.

Reality is you need both! Biggest mistake we can make as a Viper community is chase away new people, new owners and new potential owners with this kind of pointless argument. No need for hostility in responses and no need for childish "silver spooner, trust fund" only if you can afford it" type of comments as it drives away people from the community. Your both in the wrong. We are all in the wrong as should not even be posting this response.

The Viper owner community is at a major cross roads these days and we need to realize what we want for a community as well as how we are viewed in the short years to come. Many of the ole faithful owners from the beginning have moved on, aged or even died to where they are not part of the Viper community anymore, except in spirit. We ALL need to pitch in and unite as to what we want our community to be, what owner and potential owners feel it should be and then work hard to make it a fun place for all no mater if you want to go for coffee and just talk about the history races and how Viper dominated the world for a while or if you are out there dominating it now in your Viper.

Honestly it is up to us! The Ford GT crowd did not create that nirvana and appreciation of the cars/prices overnight. It was a concerted effort. Really if we were a strong Viper Nation and that first article came out trashing the Viper in Motor Trend, we would have all stood behind the Viper and said, it was a development car so it was piss poor unprofessional and sensational over drama reporting by Motor Trend to event report it as they did. They could have caulked it up to a car they knew was not vetted and reported the results but then made sure it was presented in a way that people knew the real car when out would be better but they didn't. Hope they are happy as it may kill the new car. If we were a strong nation, we would have dismissed that and been done with it but we got into these little tiffs and here we are.

I would hope we could stop the Negative Nancy stuff and just enjoy what we have. It is okay to report what you want and would like to see regardless of what you own. It is not okay to create this I am better and have more money than you talk as it does not promote our car nor our club. I am kind of tired of the entitlement comments. They are BS. It is a free country after all. ALL created equal.

Policy Limits

07-11-2014, 09:28 AM

I can only imagine the would be owners who went to viper forums saw the hatred and then changed their mind about buying one. I've been through lots of brands and never encountered anything quite like it. If anything the McLaren guys who paid 300k for a car full of bugs that's now worth 180k should feel pretty hosed. I've complained on Maserati Life about some issues with my Granturismo but it doesn't lead to evil condemnation of the brand. Not saying folks on here have done such to the snake but the other forums are loaded with negativity.

I couldn't always afford a viper. I've wanted one since the debut 1/4 century ago. Now that its in my garage the pros definitely outweigh the cons. Opinions from all folks owners or not should be welcomed. I was an enthusiast for much longer than I was an owner. Having said that, owning or at least driving and binding with the car to learn its personality goes a long way in giving your opinion credibility.

mikesax

07-11-2014, 09:28 AM

EXTREMELY well put ViperSmith- how many would actually buy it if it got ...-some but not all-and probably a very small percentage at that! People just love to bitch!! IMO the car ROCKS just he way it is-I love most of the opinions I read from owners and enthusiasts-I just hate the complaining about what the car isn't!! NOTHING is perfect- in my business the customers have changed so much in the last 5 years!! People in general ENJOY looking for "imperfections' for lack of a better word-they can't seem to help themselves! The internet has given INTENSE amounts of information and MISINFORMATION to the masses-every one is an expert and a critic!! People in general should just try to "enjoy the ride"-life is waaay to short to dwell on PERCIEVED negatives!! ENJOY THE POSITIVES- there are many!!

HobokenViper

07-11-2014, 09:50 AM

Im chill. And trust me, I totally understand and agree with his point to a certain extent, but the Viper forums tend to push people away if you dont own a Viper. Lots of members (not all) seem to think that if you're not an an owner or never have been, that somehow you're less of an asset to the community. I personally do not agree with that and feel the need to stick up for myself and others who do not currently own a Viper. Im not a troll and am here for the same reasons everyone else is; because I am a huge Viper guy, and car guy in general. I've had lots of people knock me over the years because I dont own a Viper, well that shit gets annoying, especially when I've done more for the forums/community than they probably have. Anyway, there is my rant.

For the record, I agree with you. I've seen lots of great posts from you in my time here. You definitely contribute more to the site than many of the owners on this forum, and hopefully you will be an owner one day soon as well. There's no better way to support the Viper than to own one right??? Nobody should tell you that your opinions don't count just because you don't currently own one. There's a big difference between someone like you, and a non-owner who is a troll just looking to come on here and stir up trouble or bash the Viper. I think a lot of the owners on here just put all enthusiasts into the latter category unfortunately.

Hell, it took me 20 years to get my Viper from the first time I first saw one in 1992 at my local Dodge dealer when I was just 12 years old. I just never had the balls to join the Viper sites until I actually bought mine a couple years back, but reading through all the good threads gave me all the knowledge I needed to find the best one I could. Plenty of the posts that I found useful information on the old VCA site came from enthusiasts who did not currently own a Viper, but the honest reviews from actual owners also gave me the valuable insight of which model and year was right for me.

Bruce H.

07-11-2014, 09:58 AM

My personal experience as a non-owner in 2013 was that Viper forum members/owners are very welcoming, and seem to be of all who are here to learn and/or contribute positively. I asked lots of questions in order to make my purchase decision and received very helpful responses. I quickly learned to ignore certain posters that added nothing with their negativity, none of which owned a Gen V coincidentally. As a new owner I continue to ignore that type of poster, but help all others where I can with factual information and experience-based opinion.

05Commemorative

07-11-2014, 11:42 AM

nobody said don't share your opinions if you don't own a car. Never was said by me and apologize if how interpreted. What was said is put your opinions in perspective and have context on their value.

Take is seriously. If you were going to purchase a product and really wanted insight on what to get (as Bruce was/did), you would want to here from the experts on the topic. You would then want to experience yourself. You might then read some magazine articles (which is unfortunate), but if you were gathering data from those that have no experience with it, that would be problematic, right? If you had two buddies and one read a magazine article and the other owned the car, who's opinion would you value?

Don't get me wrong, love folks with passion and desire to get the car at some point. Love those that contribute in useful unique ways (Austin, you helped me determine the color combo I wanted with your images which was super helpful). But I bristle when some posters pop-off on what they think should happen purely from a non-experience way and have no accountability and then get upset when challenged. They do a disservice to others doing real research.

I will give the best example I can. "If the car had 700hp, it would sell like crazy!" It gets listed like it is a fact. Then ask those same people if they have driven the car with a wimpy 640 hp, new gearing, loss of a couple hundred lbs, etc. "Well, no but that is my opinion" Ok, then if it had 700hp, would you be in position to buy today? "Well, no" Definitely an example of an opinion. Did it help anyone?

Austin

07-11-2014, 12:04 PM

Glad I could help. Again, I totally understand and appreciate your point of view. Maybe I did interpret it incorrectly. I just know that over the years Ive caught a lot of flack for being on here, voicing my opinions and not owning a Viper. Not because I dont like the car, but because funds didnt allow at the time. I wasnt trying to stir an argument, just wanted to give an insight coming from someone who truly loves the Viper (and cars in general), but cant be on the level that some of you are Viper wise.

Now, on to your point of how some say "700hp will sell the car". SRT/Dodge isnt on here personally asking for ANY of our opinions. Now, they may check the forums here and there, but no one is coming here asking us to tell them what it is exactly that we believe would make the car fly out of dealerships. And even if they were, they most likely wouldnt do half the things we suggest anyway. So in reality, do ANY of our opinions, whether we've purchased a car or not really matter in the grand scheme of things? Some may say yes, I lean towards no. Kind of like voting for a President. Just my opinion of course. All I know is, the Viper is in my blood whether I ever own one or not.

nobody said don't share your opinions if you don't own a car. Never was said by me and apologize if how interpreted. What was said is put your opinions in perspective and have context on their value.

Take is seriously. If you were going to purchase a product and really wanted insight on what to get (as Bruce was/did), you would want to here from the experts on the topic. You would then want to experience yourself. You might then read some magazine articles (which is unfortunate), but if you were gathering data from those that have no experience with it, that would be problematic, right? If you had two buddies and one read a magazine article and the other owned the car, who's opinion would you value?

Don't get me wrong, love folks with passion and desire to get the car at some point. Love those that contribute in useful unique ways (Austin, you helped me determine the color combo I wanted with your images which was super helpful). But I bristle when some posters pop-off on what they think should happen purely from a non-experience way and have no accountability and then get upset when challenged. They do a disservice to others doing real research.

I will give the best example I can. "If the car had 700hp, it would sell like crazy!" It gets listed like it is a fact. Then ask those same people if they have driven the car with a wimpy 640 hp, new gearing, loss of a couple hundred lbs, etc. "Well, no but that is my opinion" Ok, then if it had 700hp, would you be in position to buy today? "Well, no" Definitely an example of an opinion. Did it help anyone?