Gen V dyno results @ 9,000 miles

[Nine Ball]

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/ynotdv8/2013%20Viper/20140523_110405.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/ynotdv8/media/2013%20Viper/20140523_110405.jpg.html)

I dropped by KPRacing (www.kpracing.com) here in Houston, and had them do some baseline dyno pulls on my 2013 Viper. This was prior to doing any modifications. Two back to back pulls were made, without shutting down or cooling down. The second dyno netted about 5 rwhp more, and is shown here. This is a load-based Mustang dyno, so results are more accurate than most Dynojet brand dynos. The load-based dynos require you to input the vehicle weight into the program, which adds some resistance to the rollers to simulate actual acceleration times vs spinning some free-wheeling drums.

Results:
531 rwhp (corrected)
490 ft-lbs (corrected)

Estimated engine HP:
663 hp (factory rated is 640 hp)

This result is within 10 hp of other Gen 5 cars that have dynoed at KP, with mine being on the higher end. Mine also has far more miles, and has been driven aggressively - which act to loosen a car up and make more power. Also, some might think it was the Forgeline wheels that showed more hp, but these are actually heavier than the Track Pack/Corsa combo that came with the car.

I'll go back once I get around to doing headers, but won't do so until the tune becomes available.

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/ynotdv8/2013%20Viper/20140523_111047.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/ynotdv8/media/2013%20Viper/20140523_111047.jpg.html)

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/ynotdv8/2013%20Viper/20140523_111055.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/ynotdv8/media/2013%20Viper/20140523_111055.jpg.html)

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/rr29/ynotdv8/2013%20Viper/20140523_110346.jpg (http://s466.photobucket.com/user/ynotdv8/media/2013%20Viper/20140523_110346.jpg.html)

Tony

[Bill Pemberton]

Good numbers, thanks for posting !!

[ViperSmith]

Nice!

[FLATOUT]

Very nice, and good number with 3.55's and forged internals. Going to put mine on the rollers at Serious soon since I made all of my gen 4 pulls there.

[Ryanr206]

What kind of numbers do they see on stock ZR1's or even heads can Z06's up there? Curious how the stock power of a viper compares.

[swexlin]

Tony, those numbers seem similar some Gen 4s? I'm used to being around Dynojets, so this is new to me. At any rate, they are good numbers, and your car looks great as well!

[Nine Ball]

What kind of numbers do they see on stock ZR1's or even heads can Z06's up there? Curious how the stock power of a viper compares.

Peak hp is nearly identical to the ZR1. Peak TQ is lower than the ZR1 (they usually make 600-610). The area under the HP curve is better on the ZR1, also. That little TVS blower makes full boost at 2,000 rpm, while we Vipers have to wait for the rpm to make power. But, when racing them, the cars are dead even. Proof, mine vs a stock ZR1. We also ran at the drag strip the same day, my Viper trapped 1 mph faster, consistently.


http://youtu.be/D0BALjI6a1c

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Clean honest evaluation Tony with a reputable speed shop, in the world of healthy dyno numbers floating around out there..

Bad Boyzz

[Brian E]

Tony thanks for sharing. Great info as always. Just imagine the gains when you are able to tune/adjust that fat AFR.

[mjorgensen]

Tony thanks for sharing. Great info as always. Just imagine the gains when you are able to tune/adjust that fat AFR.

30-40rwhp?

[mnc2886]

It has little to do with the thread, but if these pictures don't prove that centerlock wheels should be the standard, then your blind. Your car looks great.

On the dyno side of the conversation, in my experience, mustang dynos show about 7-8% less HP than a dynojet. I bet you'd be pushing 560 on one of those.

[plumcrazy]

great data tony, nice job !

[Austin]

That first pic of it on the dyno is great.

[cashcorn]

thanks! been waiting for a good baseline. The front wheel & tire size look perfect. Those must be 19's?

[FLATOUT]

Yes Mustang dyno's usually show a little less, I think it would have made 560SAE on the Dyno jet down the street that I have used in the past. Since dyno's mean nothing outside of tuning it doesn't matter but for people that get hung up on it there it is.

On a side note what driveline loss % is being used for your crank HP number? 531 to 663 is a 25% driveline loss That seems higher than what we usually use. I think it's usually been 15% that people used to get to the crank HP. Just semantics but wonder why KP used such a large loss factor for a manual T6060 car.

[IndyRon]

Tony, those numbers seem similar some Gen 4s? I'm used to being around Dynojets, so this is new to me. At any rate, they are good numbers, and your car looks great as well!

Lower than most Gen 4's actually. ;)

[Nine Ball]

AFR (wideband) wasn't connected to the car, so disregard that number shown.

Wheels are 19/19 front and rear.

Andy, Mustang dynos are more accurate, and don't rely on some percentage figure. They measure hp pushing the loaded rollers, just as the car accelerates on the road. Dyno pulls even take longer on a Mustang dyno. You can even simulate 1/4 mile runs on them, and get ET and mph. Other gen 5 cars came out around 645-650 crank, with low miles.

[Nine Ball]

Lower than most Gen 4's actually. ;)

Not on this dyno. About the same. Can't compare different dynos across the country, realistically.

[Nine Ball]

That first pic of it on the dyno is great.

Samsung Galaxy S5 > iPhone ;)

Tony

[cashcorn]

Did they weight the car or did you go off of factor Viper #'s with stock wheel types? just curious..

[FLATOUT]

Lower than most Gen 4's actually. ;) As Tony mentioned not on that Dyno.

For instance I dynoed my gen 4 within two days of itself at two different events, same correction factor. Made 615 612 on dyno one, and 598 596 on dyno two. On the second dyno a stock gen 4 right after me only made 515. So you have to compare them on the same machines if that's what you really want to do.

Tony thanks for the load clarification, didn't know that about load dyno's. I knew about the 1/4 mile pulls including mph though, always interesting watching those runs.

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Mustang dyno's are among the best, great for tuning and rely on operator data input, which really makes you earn your HP numbers or get real happy at times depending, also known for higher drive line loss calculations. Our Dyno Jet is a bit different in design and functionality, we're taking the acceleration rate of a known mass (drum circumference & weight) to calculate power output. No tire size or gear ratio entry required. Obviously many factors still remain, being well maintained and calibrated, weather station issues ect.. We figure driveline loss around 12% conservatively..

Bad Boyzz

[IndyRon]

As Tony mentioned not on that Dyno.

For instance I dynoed my gen 4 within two days of itself at two different events, same correction factor. Made 615 612 on dyno one, and 598 596 on dyno two. On the second dyno a stock gen 4 right after me only made 515. So you have to compare them on the same machines if that's what you really want to do.

Tony thanks for the load clarification, didn't know that about load dyno's. I knew about the 1/4 mile pulls including mph though, always interesting watching those runs.

I'm well aware of that, just poking. :)

I wouldn't call them more accurate though. Toddy said above, figure 12% drivetrain loss. That would put you at 1/0.88x531 = 603 flywheel. Even if I give you 15% loss that puts you at 1/0.85x531 = 627 flywheel. Either the Gen 5 is overrated at 640 hp or the dynojet is more accurate or you have a underperforming car. Which is it?

Tony, you are an engineer. You meant to say the Mustang dyno is more precise. Accuracy and precision are not the same.

"In the fields of science, engineering, industry, and statistics, the accuracy of a measurement system is the degree of closeness of measurements of a quantity to that quantity's actual (true) value. The precision of a measurement system, related to reproducibility and repeatability, is the degree to which repeated measurements under unchanged conditions show the same results. Although the two words precision and accuracy can be synonymous in colloquial use, they are deliberately contrasted in the context of the scientific method."

[Nine Ball]

Ron, I must admit that my car is very under-performing. Might be the slowest one on this site.

:)

[Jack B]

There are a very small number of G4 owners that seem to have penis envy. What is wrong with people that are always making the statement that "My car is better than your car". Ron is probably a good guy, but, why does he continue to made the same comment about his unbelievable G4, so many/many times - it gets old. Doesn't he realize that some people actually have read some of his old posts and already know how great his car is.

For information sake, I have always thought the G4 was a great car and was very close to buying one when the G5 was announced. Now that i have a G5, please shoot me if I ever post in this forum about how much better it is than a G4 or any earlier viper. Shoot me twice if I make that comment 20 times.



Ron, I must admit that my car is very under-performing. Might be the slowest one on this site.

:)

[IndyRon]

There are a very small number of G4 owners that seem to have penis envy. What is wrong with people that are always making the statement that "My car is better than your car". Ron is probably a good guy, but, why does he continue to made the same comment about his unbelievable G4, so many/many times - it gets old. Doesn't he realize that some people actually have read some of his old posts and already know how great his car is.

For information sake, I have always thought the G4 was a great car and was very close to buying one when the G5 was announced. Now that i have a G5, please shoot me if I ever post in this forum about how much better it is than a G4 or any earlier viper. Shoot me twice if I make that comment 20 times.

For goodness sakes, no one is knocking your Gen 5 (or Tony's for that matter). If you didn't pick up on the sarcasm, so be it. This thread is a spillover from previous threads and posts and I was using it as an excuse to take a jab at Tony since he took one at me. That's it. Since you didn't follow what I was implying, let me be frank and leave out the internet humor or sarcasm....the following is what I believe to be true...humor free and unfiltered.

#1 - The Gen 5 is a nicer driving car and overall nicer car than the Gen 4
#2 - The Gen 5 will dyno higher than a Gen 4 on average
#3 - A mustang dyno will dyno significantly lower than a dynojet
#4 - I don't think the Gen 5 is underrated
#5 - I don't think there is more than a 12-15% drivetrain loss in these cars
#6 - I do think you are way too defensive of the car...I'm I am partially to blame I will refrain from comments in the future
#7 - I really liked the Gen 5 I drove (a Stryker Green one with aero) and would love to have one.
#8 - What you are calling penis envy is just normal banter between car guys in good humor (or so I thought anyway)

My only question to you is how long have you been around fast cars and racing? Most folks in the hobby/sport pick up on this type of stuff early on. I too think you are a good guy...

[Nine Ball]

I actually agree with all 8 points, Ron. Except the penis envy thing. I have a tiny wanker, which is why I own two Vipers.

[mikesax]

It's ALWAYS about the penis!! Mine must be small-I have 2 Vipers as well!!

[IndyRon]

I actually agree with all 8 points, Ron. Except the penis envy thing. I have a tiny wanker, which is why I own two Vipers.

Why do you think I had to buy the car with a ricer shopping cart spoiler on the back...it was the best I could do since I can't afford 2. :p

[Unorthodox]

Why do you think I had to buy the car with a ricer shopping cart spoiler on the back...it was the best I could do since I can't afford 2. :p

Don't forget about the see through radiator hose with LED's....................... ;)

Michael

[IndyRon]

Don't forget about the see through radiator hose with LED's....................... ;)

Michael

Goes with my blue fedora and matching sunglasses that I wear to all the car shows. I knew you'd understand based on your Username. :)

[mblgjr]

Solid results.

Mustang Dyno really is the best out there.

But...


*sigh*

Wouldn't mind another 50-75rwhp...

[ACRucrazy]

Solid results.

Mustang Dyno really is the best out there.

But...


*sigh*

Wouldn't mind another 50-75rwhp...

You can have it....


















With a Gen IV... :drive:

[FLATOUT]

Gen V's will have the ECU soon enough and we'll make the same numbers in a lighter platform with better gearing. Should be a fun fall and spring at the drag strip.

The ACR's should be throwing down road race challenges though not drag and roll race call outs. Not that I mind but it gets ugly at speed I know from experience lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WQIlKYpMVk

[FLATOUT]

And Ron I don't mind the back and forth it will make things more fun come race season :D Better than sitting on here discussing new color options.

[ACRucrazy]

Haha, I am just stirring the pot. I have spoken with Ron & Andy on the phone and Tony through PM a few times, all good dudes in my book.

[mblgjr]

You can have it....


















With a GT500... :drive:

J/k; I love my Snakes equally, but one is a true sports car, the other is merely a muscle car. But the Viper just needs that last touch of power to be "wow". It's exceptionally well matched to the chassis right now :) I just like wretched excess.

[FLATOUT]

Haha, I am just stirring the pot. I have spoken with Ron & Andy on the phone and Tony through PM a few times, all good dudes in my book.

What's funny is I think I might actually remember Ron now that we are talking from way back in the day when we were all modding different cars.

I would love to have a National all Viper Roll race event just for grudge matches so we could get some fun pulls in without breaking shit.

[IndyRon]

What's funny is I think I might actually remember Ron now that we are talking from way back in the day when we were all modding different cars.

I would love to have a National all Viper Roll race event just for grudge matches so we could get some fun pulls in without breaking shit.

We all have our issues....and of course (in our own minds) the fastest cars and quickest shifting.;)

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Gen V's will have the ECU soon enough and we'll make the same numbers in a lighter platform with better gearing. Should be a fun fall and spring at the drag strip.

The ACR's should be throwing down road race challenges though not drag and roll race call outs. Not that I mind but it gets ugly at speed I know from experience lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WQIlKYpMVk


Glad to see everyone's kool again and this threads back on track!!

Ok, so time to stir the pot again.. FLATOUT, when I'm finished with my ACR's upgrades, I'll drag and roll race you anytime any place... I'll even install my front splitter insert for kick's and if I win, I get to cut off your T-shirt sleeves and other shit like that!! Deal...

Bad Boyzz

[FLATOUT]

So are we now talking modded cars against stock cars or what? Yes you ACR guys leave your aero on. But yes let me know when you guys get down to Texas and we'll have some fun. And you've been watching too much white trash sleeve cutting TV Toddy ;)

And I am sure you car will have full exhaust, boltons, intake, ECU, and ported heads as well, maybe making 630-650rwhp? Does anyone think that that setup wouldn't walk a stock Gen V? Pretty sure no one doubts that.

At what point in this thread and why, did people start arguing over whether a modded car would walk a stock one?



Glad to see everyone's kool again and this threads back on track!!

Ok, so time to stir the pot again.. FLATOUT, when I'm finished with my ACR's upgrades, I'll drag and roll race you anytime any place... I'll even install my front splitter insert for kick's and if I win, I get o cut off your T-shirt sleeves and other shit like that!! Deal...

Bad Boyzz

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

So are we now talking modded cars against stock cars or what? Yes you ACR guys leave your aero on. But yes let me know when you guys get down to Texas and we'll have some fun. And you've been watching too much white trash sleeve cutting TV Toddy ;)

And I am sure you car will have full exhaust, boltons, intake, ECU, and ported heads as well, maybe making 630-650rwhp? Does anyone think that that setup wouldn't walk a stock Gen V? Pretty sure no one doubts that.

At what point in this thread and why, did people start arguing over whether a modded car would walk a stock one?

Not stock,

When your done racing out your TA with all that's available and I'll bring my "Frankenstein" V10 thumper, wing and all.. that's what I'm calling it! Your sleeves and your collar now..

Ok gotta go, wife caught me playing around on the iPad and says I gotta get my ass back to work so we can buy some groceries, feed the kids and pay some rent..

[FLATOUT]

Not stock,

When your done racing out your TA with all that's available and I'll bring my "Frankenstein" V10 thumper.. that's what I'm calling it! Your sleeves and your collar now..

This is getting weird, don't you make and sell all that's available for our cars? But whatever when you're down here let me know and we'll hit the drag strip. I don't race men that want to try to take my clothes off but maybe you guys do things differently in Sacramento haha.

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Rough crowd, Back to FB..:t1567:

[FLATOUT]

Rough crowd, Back to FB..

We're just kidding around man, you kow that. Would love to see a bunch of mid 9 second street driven Vipers this time next year :D

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

At least 10 seconds FLATOUT ...

[Nine Ball]

Who needs mods to run 10s?

:icon_devil:

[HANKFAN]

Who needs mods to run 10s?

:icon_devil:

:smilielol:

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Who needs mods to run 10s?

:icon_devil:

Excuse me, I meant 10.00's :United_States:

[FLATOUT]

Toddy you've had your car for a long time and you're a shop owner surely you have some time slips. Post them up!

[cashcorn]

sounds like some bench racing to me. no t-shirts, really.. I say first round of beers!

[HANKFAN]

Excuse me, I meant 10.00's :United_States:

How soon will we see 10.00's in a Gen V?

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Toddy you've had your car for a long time and you're a shop owner surely you have some time slips. Post them up!

Believe it or not Andy, we've been so busy growing our business, developing & buiilding new components for our clientele base and the Viper nation that our Viper's seem to see the back burner.. I guess you could say "Living Vicariously" through our customers and friends!

My son Toddy Jr and I have decide on a inhouse project, to build our ACR into a formidable NA runner, a beast really, utilizing our new driveline and suspension kit upgrades and a few other goodies we're building special for the ACR! Should be good for Viper business and fun for our father/ son bonding. Toddy Jr can run the Dyno Jet..


sounds like some bench racing to me. no t-shirts, really.. I say first round of beers!

Much better.. I'd much rather go for a cold one!


How soon will we see 10.00's in a Gen V?

BBG-G5 Track Pack (This should get you deep into the 10's consistently)
*Mopar PCM
*Competition Clutch Kit w/HRB
*Shorty Race Headers
*3" Muffler
*3.73 Race Prepped Rear Gear Set (Street & Drag Race Option)

We believe from our initial data and some realistic conversation with Chrysler folk that we should yield approximately 700 crank HP !!

With all do respect NineBall, not trying to Hijack your thread just throwing our ideas on a good question from HANKFAN

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w587/BADBOYZZGARAGE1/BBG%20Ohlins%20Race%20Dampers/d05c861cbd3910e4236d9d419a6a24c7_zps2342c482.jpg

[FLATOUT]

Father and son racing together :D. Now I'm jealous my daughter is one and half and I hope she likes hotrods.

[Nine Ball]

With all do respect NineBall, not trying to Hijack your thread just throwing our ideas on a good question from HANKFAN

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w587/BADBOYZZGARAGE1/BBG%20Ohlins%20Race%20Dampers/d05c861cbd3910e4236d9d419a6a24c7_zps2342c482.jpg

We'll call it even if you send me all those parts for durability and track testing, or if you buy some wheels from me. :)

[Jack B]

Ron:
Truce again, all jabbing aside come down to the Mopar Nationals. We usually get to Columbus on Thursday night. National Trails is an OK strip, but, typically the DA is about 3000, we won't set any records, but, we all have a lot of fun. I really have not had a lot of time to race the car this year. I am very interested to see how the car runs. We have one G4 in our group that typically runs in the 10's.

Tony:
The Mustang dyno has a Dynojet simulator mode. It might be interesting to see what the hp is using that mode. Another issue on hp is that the correction factors do not accurately adjust hp for the amount of water vapor in the air.



For goodness sakes, no one is knocking your Gen 5 (or Tony's for that matter). If you didn't pick up on the sarcasm, so be it. This thread is a spillover from previous threads and posts and I was using it as an excuse to take a jab at Tony since he took one at me. That's it. Since you didn't follow what I was implying, let me be frank and leave out the internet humor or sarcasm....the following is what I believe to be true...humor free and unfiltered.

#1 - The Gen 5 is a nicer driving car and overall nicer car than the Gen 4
#2 - The Gen 5 will dyno higher than a Gen 4 on average
#3 - A mustang dyno will dyno significantly lower than a dynojet
#4 - I don't think the Gen 5 is underrated
#5 - I don't think there is more than a 12-15% drivetrain loss in these cars
#6 - I do think you are way too defensive of the car...I'm I am partially to blame I will refrain from comments in the future
#7 - I really liked the Gen 5 I drove (a Stryker Green one with aero) and would love to have one.
#8 - What you are calling penis envy is just normal banter between car guys in good humor (or so I thought anyway)

My only question to you is how long have you been around fast cars and racing? Most folks in the hobby/sport pick up on this type of stuff early on. I too think you are a good guy...

[Troublemaker]

Father and son racing together :D. Now I'm jealous my daughter is one and half and I hope she likes hotrods.

My daughter just turned 3 and refers to the blue car with white stripes, Mahca( my car) She throws a fit of I take anyone else for a ride. She usually has a dirty dress on, the tomboy gear head is in all of them, just make sure the dresses stay dirty.

[Unorthodox]

Goes with my blue fedora and matching sunglasses that I wear to all the car shows. I knew you'd understand based on your Username. :)

Despite the fact that I have no idea what a fedora is, your statement has really hurt my feelings and I refuse to buy anything from you, forever! :z: lol

Michael

[MtnBiker]

All I can say from watching those vids is that Tony can f:$&(@g drive!!

[Nine Ball]

All I can say from watching those vids is that Tony can f:$&(@g drive!!

Steroids. True story.