[PICS] Gen V intake on my Gen IV ACR [PICS]

[FLATOUT]

Well I finally got the intake on tonight and I'll do a more detailed document going over the install. There are a few little things that have to be done to make this work but for the most part this is not difficult for the average wrench. For now here are a few pictures after getting it buttoned up tonight.

As I mentioned in the other thread I posted these in don't post these on VCA, if they want to check this out they can come over here, or do the work themselves.

I'll get it fired up tomorrow and see how things go.
:)

Andy

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/GenVIntakecopy_zps1cb27989.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/GenVIntakecopy_zps1cb27989.jpg.html)


http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/GenVintake2copy_zps0e358f86.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/GenVintake2copy_zps0e358f86.jpg.html)

[slitherv10]

Well I finally got the intake on tonight and I'll do a more detailed document going over the install. There are a few little things that have to be done to make this work but for the most part this is not difficult for the average wrench. For now here are a few pictures after getting it buttoned up tonight.

As I mentioned in the other thread I posted these in don't post these on VCA, if they want to check this out they can come over here, or do the work themselves.

I'll get it fired up tomorrow and see how things go.
:)

Andy

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/GenVIntakecopy_zps1cb27989.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/GenVIntakecopy_zps1cb27989.jpg.html)


http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/GenVintake2copy_zps0e358f86.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/GenVintake2copy_zps0e358f86.jpg.html)


That just looks "FLATOUT" smokin !!

Can't wait to see the numbers

[donk_316]

Flatout, you have a beautiful car. Good job!

[BlknBlu]

great job looks awesome.

Bruce

[DARKNHT]

Job well done! Looks great

[Mamba52]

Love it!!!! I'm getting ready too pull trigger on my own build. I already have American Racing Gen 4 headers. Still thinking about the Mopar Gen 4 upgrade with Roe Racing's 710 cam. Wondering if the would switch the intake to the Gen 5 intake.

[FLATOUT]

I'll have it on the dyno this weekend.

[08viperviolet]

yes I'm very interested to see the gains you get. Keep us posted.

[ViperTony]

Nice job! I'm not a fan of the GenV intake (looks) but damn it looks great in your ACR. Looking forward to the results as I'm sure you are too!

[FLATOUT]

Nice job! I'm not a fan of the GenV intake (looks) but damn it looks great in your ACR. Looking forward to the results as I'm sure you are too!

Yeh I am more concerned with the power gain, weight reduction, and heat dissapation of the composite than I am with the looks.

[ttamez]

i never noticed it until now, it looks like a mini-gen 2 manifold haha

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Yeh I am more concerned with the power gain, weight reduction, and heat dissapation of the composite than I am with the looks.

I agree. There is a certain beauty to the function. Honestly I prefer the black to the large aluminum chunk...

Do the silver stripes come standard or is it all black? Are they painted?

[ACRucrazy]

They all come with the silver stripes. Lookin good! I can't wait for the dyno!
If anyone is looking for a manifold. I have 1 available for a smoking price.

[Steve M]

Just for clarification...was your Gen 4 manifold that you just replaced stock or ported?

[06_SRT]

I like the new look! And agreed... if you paint the valve covers and intake both blue it will be too much.

[BlknBlu]

all it needs is a cross brace.

Bruce

[Rocket]

Looks good. Any feedback on the smooth tubes as there hasn't been a lot of discussion on them with the Gen 4.

[St.Char]

Nicely done!

[slitherv10]

Looks good. Any feedback on the smooth tubes as there hasn't been a lot of discussion on them with the Gen 4.

Yes...their actually smooth and silky. Round and fit with clamps. Sorry all I know. I'm sure someone with more to add will follow. :o

[ACRucrazy]

Just for clarification...was your Gen 4 manifold that you just replaced stock or ported?

Not to speak for him, but it was a stock Gen IV manifold that was replaced.

[FLATOUT]

Looks good. Any feedback on the smooth tubes as there hasn't been a lot of discussion on them with the Gen 4.

What's up Rocket glad to see you over here. Lee perma banned me from the VCA almost a year ago so I couldn't keep up with your builds.

As for the smooth tubes, I'm not sure how much is gained or lost there, more of a why not mod.

[DARKNHT]

What'd you do with the take-off?

[FLATOUT]

What'd you do with the take-off?

Sold it.

[DARKNHT]

Ahhh OK! Was thinkin it would be a nice display piece once polished

[Rukcus]

I like the look of the composite manifold, looks badass! I can't wait for your numbers.

[J TNT]

Nice Mod ! Keep us posted :o On my list of possible upgrades . :drive:

[ACRucrazy]

I just weighed both the stock Gen IV and Stock Gen V.

Gen V - 12.6 pounds
Gen IV - 24.4 pounds
Gen IV lower - 16.2 pounds

[DARKNHT]

I knew that would be a P90X diet between the two lol

[FLATOUT]

I just weighed both the stock Gen IV and Stock Gen V.

Gen V - 12.6 pounds
Gen IV - 24.4 pounds
Gen IV lower - 16.2 pounds

Damn that's a bigger difference than I thought. Drove my car breifly this morning and I will be taking it by Tomball Dodge in the Morning to do a trottle position relearn and then on to work. I'll put about 120 miles on it tomorrow during the commute so hopefully the bugs are worked out lol.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I just weighed both the stock Gen IV and Stock Gen V.

Gen V - 12.6 pounds
Gen IV - 24.4 pounds
Gen IV lower - 16.2 pounds

So almost 12 lbs savings? Very impressive. Much more than the 7 quoted.

[slitherv10]

When are the before and after Dyno numbers coming ? I can't wait to see the difference.

[FLATOUT]

When are the before and after Dyno numbers coming ? I can't wait to see the difference.

We have a dyno day this Sunday. When I made the baseline pulls the car had an extensive cool down period and we made 6 pulls. On Sunday I'll get two quick pulls so we'll see how the numbers compare.

[slitherv10]

We have a dyno day this Sunday. When I made the baseline pulls the car had an extensive cool down period and we made 6 pulls. On Sunday I'll get two quick pulls so we'll see how the numbers compare.

Can't wait to see the results. might consider going this route with my 08 than TT my 96 B/W. I was looking at 700Hp as my goal for either. I'm trying to put together pros and cons on going either way.

[FLATOUT]

***** Morning Update***** LOL

Drove the car 30 miles into Tomball Dodge this morning to do an idle relearn, fuel adaptives, and to see what was going on with the throttle bodies.

Drive started fine enough, but about 10 miles away from the dealership I started seeing an intermitten (Z) (lightning bolt) light. It would come on in the lower rpms and around idle even though the idle seemed just fine. It progressivly got worse until it threw a check engine light and went into limp mode. I pulled over and restarted the car and all was fine. Mile down the road same thing. I eventually realized that as ling as I kept the rpms a little higher 1,500-1,800 that would keep it from going into limp mode so I could get it to the dealer.

Pulled in and discussed it with Morgan, we reflashed/relearned everything and the problem was gone. Went out and made 4 second gear pulls up to 60mph and let it coast back down. Pointed it straight and said F it. Car took off and pulled much better, much more mid range torque. It's pretty cool out so it was making more power anyway but I could tell a difference.

Drove the car another 30 miles into work and no problems. The only think I don't like right now is that there seem to be slightly less throttle response off idle than with the Gen 4 Manifold. Maybe this will change as I put more miles on it but I feel like the throttle has a little more lag than before. I'll play around with some things and see if I can get it improved a little.

So if you are doing this mod, you will most likely need the dealer to do a throttle relearn as well as reflash the adaptives before you can get everything to run properly. I'll be stuck in a bunch of traffic on the way home today so I will report back how it does in 60 miles of stop and go lol.

[Wheelman]

Can't wait to see the results. might consider going this route with my 08 than TT my 96 B/W. I was looking at 700Hp as my goal for either. I'm trying to put together pros and cons on going either way.

That is pretty much exactly why I made the gen 4 600+whp thread. Deciding what viper I want to get into next, a TT gen 2 or a full bolt on gen 4. I already owned a 06, so I don't have much interest in getting another.

DIY bolt on gen 4 (with a tune) at 650-700whp would be pretty attractive compared to a full out TT kit for an earlier model.

[FLATOUT]

That is pretty much exactly why I made the gen 4 600+whp thread. Deciding what viper I want to get into next, a TT gen 2 or a full bolt on gen 4. I already owned a 06, so I don't have much interest in getting another.

DIY bolt on gen 4 (with a tune) at 650-700whp would be pretty attractive compared to a full out TT kit for an earlier model.

Exactly, so far we have seen full bolton Gen 4's trap 135mph in the quarter in good but not great DA. I think a bolton Gen 4 Viper will see 137-8 no problem. Thats a pretty user friendly drive anywhere build right there. I want a car that can make that kind of power and live for 80k-100K miles.

[ACRucrazy]

***** Morning Update***** LOL

Drove the car 30 miles into Tomball Dodge this morning to do an idle relearn, fuel adaptives, and to see what was going on with the throttle bodies.

Drive started fine enough, but about 10 miles away from the dealership I started seeing an intermitten (Z) (lightning bolt) light. It would come on in the lower rpms and around idle even though the idle seemed just fine. It progressivly got worse until it threw a check engine light and went into limp mode. I pulled over and restarted the car and all was fine. Mile down the road same thing. I eventually realized that as ling as I kept the rpms a little higher 1,500-1,800 that would keep it from going into limp mode so I could get it to the dealer.

Pulled in and discussed it with Morgan, we reflashed/relearned everything and the problem was gone. Went out and made 4 second gear pulls up to 60mph and let it coast back down. Pointed it straight and said F it. Car took off and pulled much better, much more mid range torque. It's pretty cool out so it was making more power anyway but I could tell a difference.

Drove the car another 30 miles into work and no problems. The only think I don't like right now is that there seem to be slightly less throttle response off idle than with the Gen 4 Manifold. Maybe this will change as I put more miles on it but I feel like the throttle has a little more lag than before. I'll play around with some things and see if I can get it improved a little.

So if you are doing this mod, you will most likely need the dealer to do a throttle relearn as well as reflash the adaptives before you can get everything to run properly. I'll be stuck in a bunch of traffic on the way home today so I will report back how it does in 60 miles of stop and go lol.

Thanks for the update! Can't wait to hear about the dyno, should we start taking guesses?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Are there any GenIV throttle body upgrades / mods so long as we have to do the calibration? Or are the throttle bodies not a bottleneck?

[FLATOUT]

Not a bottle neck as far as I know. I saw some wilsons that ACRucrazy posted on the other site.

[FLATOUT]

My Dyno graph from today overlayed another Gen 4 on the dyno today. His car was stock other than Roe high flow cats, mine was stock + the Mopar ECU, Smooth tubes, K&N Filter, and Gen V intake manifold. Stock exhaust from manifolds to tip. Car is making great gains through the mid range with the manifold and ECU.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/DynoOverlay_zpscc7b1783.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/DynoOverlay_zpscc7b1783.jpg.html)

[ACRucrazy]

Good stuff! Happen to overlay it over your previous dyno by chance?
(BTW I've been checking back all day for updates! LOL)


So 570/552 with stock exhaust?! Not bad, get some headers and open up that exhaust!! 600+ hear ya come!

[FLATOUT]

Yeh I thought it might make a tad higher peak numbers based on how much faster the car felt, but after looking at what it gained under the curve I can see where it gained the most.

I think it will hit 600rwhp with headers, high flow cats, and cat back.

I'll try to get my previous dyno graph overlayed. My car stock made 4 pulls 548RWHP then 552RWHP then 562RWHP. 562 seemed like a lot that day for a stock car so I wasn't sure if he accidentally left it in STD numbers or forgot to correct them.

If I compare run 2 from stock and after manifold it is 552RWHP to 570RWHP.

[donk_316]

Jeeebus.... 20whp through out the rpm range just from a manifold swap...

Yeah I agree. G4 with full proper exhaust, mopar bandaid ECU and G5 intake manifold would over 600 at the wheels... then retime your cam the 4 degrees as mentioned by SRT and BOOM! Instant giggles.

[ACRucrazy]

Who is going to be the first to put in a Gen V cam?

- - - Updated - - -




I'll try to get my previous dyno graph overlayed. My car stock made 4 pulls 548RWHP then 552RWHP then 562RWHP. 562 seemed like a lot that day for a stock car so I wasn't sure if he accidentally left it in STD numbers or forgot to correct them.

If I compare run 2 from stock and after manifold it is 552RWHP to 570RWHP.

Id think they would be able to email you the graph of the 552/570 overlay.

[donk_316]

Right from SRT:

The Gen V camshaft has the same exhaust profile and timings as the Gen IV cam however the intake profile has been change to improve top end breathing with a very slight loss of low and mid-range. The lifted area under the curve is greater and the intake centerline is retarded four degrees. This change alone would result in an 8 to 10 horsepower improvement compared to the gen IV profile. The cam change would be a direct swap; the intake centerline should be checked and set to 122 ATDC. Although some calibration changes were required for Gen V, our guess is that the Mopar controller would provide acceptable fuel and spark and since many of the OBD monitors are desensitized there should not be any issues with check engine lights. All bets are off with a production controller.

Its worth 8-10hp. Is it worth the hassle of a cam change though.

[FLATOUT]

Who is going to be the first to put in a Gen V cam?

- - - Updated - - -



Id think they would be able to email you the graph of the 552/570 overlay.

Yes should be easy, of course I called them 4 times about the pulls we made a week ago and never got the files.

[Steve M]

Right from SRT:

The Gen V camshaft has the same exhaust profile and timings as the Gen IV cam however the intake profile has been change to improve top end breathing with a very slight loss of low and mid-range. The lifted area under the curve is greater and the intake centerline is retarded four degrees. This change alone would result in an 8 to 10 horsepower improvement compared to the gen IV profile. The cam change would be a direct swap; the intake centerline should be checked and set to 122 ATDC. Although some calibration changes were required for Gen V, our guess is that the Mopar controller would provide acceptable fuel and spark and since many of the OBD monitors are desensitized there should not be any issues with check engine lights. All bets are off with a production controller.

Its worth 8-10hp. Is it worth the hassle of a cam change though.

The way I read it is that retarding the Gen IV camshaft 4 degrees would net 8-10HP...here's what Dan Lesser said about the Gen IV cam on the other forum:


I think that many people will be surprised with what just cam be done with a Gen-4 cam... both in the sound and the power department. Its no small cam already. Just some positioning adjustments alone will net some nice changes, and altering the installed centerline can change things further. Many doors open long before needing to change the cam itself. Just to give you some idea, the lobe profile of the cam in your engine is nearly identical to a Gen-4, just timed entirely differently.

[donk_316]

The way I read it is that retarding the Gen IV camshaft 4 degrees would net 8-10HP...here's what Dan Lesser said about the Gen IV cam on the other forum:

Steve, thanks so much for posting that other part. I had read it and came to the same conclusion as you. Id much rather time the cam thats in the engine then go through the hassle and price of a cam change.

Sounds like besides just changing the centerline there is a "positioning adjustment" that can be done?
Looks like the stock timing of the VVT leaves a TON of room for improvement just by reading the tech stuff on the Mechadyne website
http://www.mechadyne-int.com/vva-products/concentric-camshafts

YOU could literally run an "eco" tune for cruising and switch to "all balls" mode for goofing off. You could have lumpy idle at the push of a button!

[Disturbed]

Anyone notice the company that makes the cam also has a verible lift setup. Things that make you go hummmmmm.

[Steve M]

I'm definitely torn on this one...ported Gen 4 intake vs. the Gen 5. I like the looks of the Gen 4, but it looks like the Gen 5 produces the same power (at least I think) that a ported Gen 4 will give you, minus the weight and heat transfer. Anyone else have plans to do this swap?

[FLATOUT]

I'm definitely torn on this one...ported Gen 4 intake vs. the Gen 5. I like the looks of the Gen 4, but it looks like the Gen 5 produces the same power (at least I think) that a ported Gen 4 will give you, minus the weight and heat transfer. Anyone else have plans to do this swap?

Installing one on Shooters ACR this weekend and I know a guy on the Alley bought one from ACRucrazy. I also know of another ACR owner doing the swap here in Houston.

[slowhatch]

Those were some nice gains, 570 on motor is no joke.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I'm definitely torn on this one...ported Gen 4 intake vs. the Gen 5. I like the looks of the Gen 4, but it looks like the Gen 5 produces the same power (at least I think) that a ported Gen 4 will give you, minus the weight and heat transfer. Anyone else have plans to do this swap?

All of the gains (power, weight, heat) made this a must do mod for me. Hard to argue with something that has so many improvements for a reasonable price. A ported intake wasn't even on my radar. I happen to prefer the looks of this one as well. Ill have the one i bought installed as soon as I can get around to it.

[Steve M]

Installing one on Shooters ACR this weekend and I know a guy on the Alley bought one from ACRucrazy. I also know of another ACR owner doing the swap here in Houston.

Any planning to do before/after dynos?

Oh, and one more question...was the trip to the dealership more related to getting the Mopar PCM in line, or will this be a required for all Gen 5 manifold swaps regardless of whether or not a Mopar PCM was previously installed?

Well, make that two questions: is the Mopar PCM a requirement?

[Shooter]

Any planning to do before/after dynos?

Oh, and one more question...was the trip to the dealership more related to getting the Mopar PCM in line, or will this be a required for all Gen 5 manifold swaps regardless of whether or not a Mopar PCM was previously installed?

Well, make that two questions: is the Mopar PCM a requirement?

I'll let Andy answer about the drive he did after, but I can answer your other questions.

I did the "before" dyno about a month ago. After an hour of driving through morning traffic and a 15 min cool down..2 pulls back to back were 547, then 548 at the wheels. After a 45 min cool down, 2 pulls back to back produced 562, then 562 again. So, stock, my 09 ACR did a best of 562 rwhp SAE. It has a little over 1700 miles on it.

We are going to find out about the Mopar PCM as I want to do it without. I really don't want to drop a grand on the PCM if it doesn't need it. The Viper tech at Tomball Dodge thinks there is a good chance we will only need an "idle" re-learn. Plus, I'd really rather wait and see if Dan @Viper Specialty will have something priced reasonably enough that it is a viable alternative for us smalltime N/A guys. I'm on my 2nd Gen IV, it's not like I'm not used to the mediocre throttle response. :)

Hope this helped,

Robert

[Steve M]

Next question: what's involved with the idle relearn?

I don't have a local dealership that can handle this (that I'm aware of), so if it's a requirement, that could also be a limiting factor for me...well, at least installing it myself that is.

[ACRucrazy]

As someone who has driven with and without the Mopar PCM, I though the improvement in driveability was worth it alone. Getting rid of the 02 sensor CEL, skip shift crap and any HP improvements I consider a bonus.

[FLATOUT]

I had already had the dealership do an idle relearn with the Mopar PCM. I them went home and installed the intake, and after a 5 minute drive it started throwing an idle relearn code. It got worse as I drove to the dealer, so I would say that a trip to the dealer is definetly something you will have to do, to run this manifold.

I will see what Shooters car does tomorrow but I expect the same thing.


As for the back to back dyno pulls I am interested to see what Shooters makes if we dyno it in the same manner that we dyno'ed the cars the first time. I am wondering if we leave if at the shop and make multiple pulls while it cools to see if we get that big number again (the stock numbers we saw).

We'll give you guys an update on Robs car this weekend.

[Steve M]

We'll give you guys an update on Robs car this weekend.

Any and all info is MUCH appreciated!

[Shooter]

Any and all info is MUCH appreciated!

So just an update. It took Andy and I about 3 hrs to do the swap. The difference between Andy's and mine is I do not have the Mopar PCM. After letting the car cool down from the drive over to the FLATOUT residence, we disconnected the battery. After the swap, reconnected the batt and fired it up. Not a hiccup or nothing. Car sounded a little throatier and idled better then stock. Had an uneventful drive to Tomball Dodge and had Morgan ( the Viper tech) look at it. He said by us disconnecting the battery, we basically did the idle relearn. So on the drive home, I brought it up to redline in 4th a couple of times...you can definitely feel the difference from around 4k to 6k. Pulls like a freight train. And the best thing is....the Mopar PCM is not a requirement for this mod to work.

[Steve M]

So just an update. It took Andy and I about 3 hrs to do the swap. The difference between Andy's and mine is I do not have the Mopar PCM. After letting the car cool down from the drive over to the FLATOUT residence, we disconnected the battery. After the swap, reconnected the batt and fired it up. Not a hiccup or nothing. Car sounded a little throatier and idled better then stock. Had an uneventful drive to Tomball Dodge and had Morgan ( the Viper tech) look at it. He said by us disconnecting the battery, we basically did the idle relearn. So on the drive home, I brought it up to redline in 4th a couple of times...you can definitely feel the difference from around 4k to 6k. Pulls like a freight train. And the best thing is....the Mopar PCM is not a requirement for this mod to work.

I'd put that in the good news column...thanks for the update!

[Shooter]

Some pics of the installed intake


http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/397713725412018787_sw.jpg

http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/564547557491364656_sw.jpg

http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/134149801940528867_sw.jpg

[FLATOUT]

Looks damn good dude! So my ACRX headers are shipping out this week, time to show you how to install a set of headers on these cars :D

Hopefully you got a chance to drive the car again today and enjoy it. I took mine out yesterday after we installed your intake and smoked'em at 70mph on the way up to 130mph lol. Car runs good :)

[Shooter]

Looks damn good dude! So my ACRX headers are shipping out this week, time to show you how to install a set of headers on these cars :D

Hopefully you got a chance to drive the car again today and enjoy it. I took mine out yesterday after we installed your intake and smoked'em at 70mph on the way up to 130mph lol. Car runs good :)

I did a couple of 30 to 160 pulls. I can really feel the difference. Thanks for the help and install lesson. :)

Next for me is HF cats and a Corsa. I'll see what deals JonB has coming up.

[ACRucrazy]

I have hf cats and corsa FS. Less than 3000 miles on them.
That intake and red smooth tubes look awesome on your car.

[Shooter]

I have hf cats and corsa FS. Less than 3000 miles on them.
That intake and red smooth tubes look awesome on your car.

Thanks. I think it looks great too. :)

Ya, I looked at your post but truthfully I'm thinking brand new, shipped to my door I can get pretty close to your price. Plus, I might be able to work a deal for my stock intake which is probably good for another $700-$750 off.

[ACRucrazy]

Oh really? Sweet. I checked around and thought hf cats added 500-700 bringing the corsa with HF cats to over $2200. Maybe I need to look again.

[Disturbed]

Oh really? Sweet. I checked around and thought hf cats added 500-700 bringing the corsa with HF cats to over $2200. Maybe I need to look again.

Jegs has HF 3" cats for less than $100 ea. shipped and NIB.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Shooter - Looks great! Thanks for the information about the battery disconnect...

[ACRucrazy]

Jegs has HF 3" cats for less than $100 ea. shipped and NIB.

Yea, I was talking more the midpipe with the cats, bungs etc all welded up such as:

These from ROE for $750 (http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/High-Flow-Catalytic-Converters-c215.htm)

And these from Parts Rack for $600 (http://www.viperpartsrack.com/viper-exhaust/viper-exhaust-emissions/high-flow-catalytic-converters-srt)

[JohnnyH]

Some pics of the installed intake


http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/397713725412018787_sw.jpg

http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/564547557491364656_sw.jpg

http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/134149801940528867_sw.jpg


Wow! That engine bay looks great!

[Victxv10]

Looks great!! I have ported stock one currently. I may have to try this out.

[ACRucrazy]

Looks great!! I have ported stock one currently. I may have to try this out.

Would LOVE to see a dyno comparison to a ported vs this.
Who ported yours?

[slowhatch]

Gen 5 intake looks so throwback to the gen 2s.

[Black Pearl]

Where can you get a good price on these Gen5 Manifolds?

[FLATOUT]

Where can you get a good price on these Gen5 Manifolds?

Jon B gets them at a great price, I'm sure a high volume Viper dealer like Tomball can get you a competitive price also.

[V10LEE]

Some pics of the installed intake


http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/397713725412018787_sw.jpg

http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/564547557491364656_sw.jpg

http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/386893375249081532/134149801940528867_sw.jpg

Wow that looks great Shooter! It's also good to know about the extra power..

[commandomatt]

That looks great.

Having said that...I would like to see that intake polished with the ribs color matched to the valve covers

Matt

[Steve M]

That looks great.

Having said that...I would like to see that intake polished with the ribs color matched to the valve covers

Matt

Polishing plastic might prove to be difficult.

[01sapphirebob]

Maybe I missed it so if someone could tell me the info I'd appreciate it or point me in the right direction. What was the cost of the GEN V intake? Anything special that needs to be done to install it on the car or is it a simple swap? I've heard that the bolts are different?

I'm in the same boat as Steve M I guess. I like the look of my stock intake but if the cost to have the lower portion ported is comparable to just getting a GEN V manifold instead then I may go that route.

[Steve M]

Maybe I missed it so if someone could tell me the info I'd appreciate it or point me in the right direction. What was the cost of the GEN V intake? Anything special that needs to be done to install it on the car or is it a simple swap? I've heard that the bolts are different?

I'm in the same boat as Steve M I guess. I like the look of my stock intake but if the cost to have the lower portion ported is comparable to just getting a GEN V manifold instead then I may go that route.

From what I've gathered, the Gen 5 intake is around $1,000, which is about the same cost as porting a Gen 4 lower (edit: looks like Gen 4 porting prices range from about $600 to nearly $1300, depending on the vendor).

The install isn't a straight swap due to the torque limiters that have been incorporated into this intake (the metal sleeves that can be seen in some of the pics posted)...the torque limiters were put there to keep the intake from being cracked during install. The Gen 5 heads have been machined to accept these limiters, so that leaves you with two choices: machine your Gen 4 heads to also accept them, or modify the limiters by cutting them flush on an angle, essentially eliminating them at your own risk. Obviously, these guys have been very careful during their installs, but there's the slight risk that they could be over or under-tightening the intake manifold to head fasteners, which could potentially lead to leaks. If you crack the manifold, I'd assume that it wouldn't be the easiest thing to fix...it's likely made out of Nylon-66 (or something similar), so you'd either be using epoxy or some sort of plastic welding technique to fix it. Or, you'd have a very expensive paper weight.

The "correct" way to install it would be to have your heads machined. These guys have obviously had success using the intake without these limiters, so it can clearly be done a different way, but at risk.

[FLATOUT]

Yes cut the torque limiters and use a torque wrench during install. There really isn't much to it, just don't be a meathead and overtighten everything. I did the install on both Shooters, and my car and didn't have any problem.

You also have to trim/fab the EGR line as the 2013 line connects to the center of the passenger valve cover and the 2008 connects to the front of the valve cover. You have to buy the 2013 line when you buy the new manifold and then trim it to fit the 2008 mounting location.

You do need to buy a micro torque wrench though as most torque wrenchs don't read that low. Good luck guys and if anyone needs any help with the install shoot me an email.

[Steve M]

Yes cut the torque limiters and use a torque wrench during install. There really isn't much to it, just don't be a meathead and overtighten everything. I did the install on both Shooters, and my car and didn't have any problem.

You also have to trim/fab the EGR line as the 2013 line connects to the center of the passenger valve cover and the 2008 connects to the front of the valve cover. You have to buy the 2013 line when you buy the new manifold and then trim it to fit the 2008 mounting location.

You do need to buy a micro torque wrench though as most torque wrenchs don't read that low. Good luck guys and if anyone needs any help with the install shoot me an email.

Is the PCV inlet size smaller on the Gen 5 intake manifold? I know the Gen 4 intake takes a -10AN (5/8" ID) hose...

[FLATOUT]

Is the PCV inlet size smaller on the Gen 5 intake manifold? I know the Gen 4 intake takes a -10AN (5/8" ID) hose...

Not sure the actual size just buy the 2013 PCV hose/line. It connects to the center, under side of the new manifold and then you cut it so that it will slip into the rubber boot coming out of the front of the passenger side valve cover. You can see it in the pictures on both installs in this thread. Pretty simple task.

[Steve M]

Not sure the actual size just buy the 2013 PCV hose/line. It connects to the center, under side of the new manifold and then you cut it so that it will slip into the rubber boot coming out of the front of the passenger side valve cover. You can see it in the pictures on both installs in this thread. Pretty simple task.

Well, I'd have to figure something else out since I'm running a catch can:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/CatchCan4_zpscff1c0eb.jpg

[FLATOUT]

Hey Steve ok forgot you were running that can. Only thing you would have to change is the rubber line exiting the can and connecting to the manifold. You would just have to run a longer line that would go under and to the center of the new manifold.

[TooBlue]

Not sure the actual size just buy the 2013 PCV hose/line. It connects to the center, under side of the new manifold and then you cut it so that it will slip into the rubber boot coming out of the front of the passenger side valve cover. You can see it in the pictures on both installs in this thread. Pretty simple task.

So you are running your PVC line back into your intake/engine?

If so, there are a lot of threads on this very subject that talk about the problems this can cause.

A catch can will eliminate this....1767

I have a Gen 5 intake on the way too.
I also use BBG ported heads and intake, Mopar Race ECU, MM headers, no cats and ACRX type mufflers with 3" custom SS turnouts.

Unfortunately I haven't had the car on the dyno with these mods and the '08 ported intake.
The engine is coming out on Monday so I won't have a chance to do so.

I WILL have a dyno number and report back after the new engine install (with the above mods plus a few...:)) and the Gen 5 intake.
Should be about 3 weeks...

[FLATOUT]

LOL yes fully aware of the blow by issue and the problem these motors have with oil contaminating the intake charge. I am switching over to a seperator shortly. I was illustrating how to install the new manifold if someone wanted to retain the stock PCV routing.

[ACRucrazy]

Would there be a benefit to running the Gen V valve covers as far as oil consumption goes?

[FLATOUT]

Would there be a benefit to running the Gen V valve covers as far as oil consumption goes?

Not sure we would have to pull a Gen V throttle body off and see if the back of the TB was coated in oil similar to the Gen IV's. They obviously changed something. The inlet for the blow by is now routed under and to the center of the manifold I would think for a more even distribution of the oil. Not sure how much of a difference it makes but I still don't want any getting in there period.

If you have ever had your manifold off you can see that the front cylinders see more of the oil than the rears. Anytime cylinders are seeing contaminants in an uneven fashion I get concerned. I just want it out of there so I don't have to worry about it when I am beating on the car.

[commandomatt]

Polishing plastic might prove to be difficult.

No kidding ..... here I was thinking it was alloy.

Well goes to show you learn something every day

Matt

[FLATOUT]

No kidding ..... here I was thinking it was alloy.

Well goes to show you learn something every day

Matt

Looks nice with some light tire shine though ;)

[TooBlue]

LOL yes fully aware of the blow by issue and the problem these motors have with oil contaminating the intake charge. I am switching over to a seperator shortly. I was illustrating how to install the new manifold if someone wanted to retain the stock PCV routing.

Gotcha...

Kinda' figured you knew better...

[Timnineside]

Whew what a read. I to was thinking about porting my gen 4 intake and 01SapphireBob and I have been chatting.

So what I have learned from this thread:

Gen V intake is about $1000 from JonB
Relatively easy install (3hrs and trimming mounts)
Micro Torq wrench needed
No relearn if battery is disconnected during install
Adds HP around the 20whp range
Lighter (around 12lbs)
Car runs better and pulls harder at higher RPMs
PCV line needs to be extended

Anything else? Anyone know what a stock gen 4 intake is worth :)?

Looking forward to shooters after numbers (hope I didn't is them in this thread)

Great thread FLATOUT!

-Tim

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and you can't polish plastic!

[FLATOUT]

Tim good post but I will add that my car made 30rwhp under the curve and additional 32ftlbs of torque under the curve. Peak numbers weren't indicative of the over all gain we saw on the dyno.

And the 2013 PCV line needs to be shortened to work with the 2008-2010 valve cover. If you have any questions about the install shoot me a PM.

[Shooter]

If the dyno shop is open between Xmas and New Years, I'll be able to get some #'s with the new intake. If not, it will have to wait till mid Jan.

[Timnineside]

Tim good post but I will add that my car made 30rwhp under the curve and additional 32ftlbs of torque under the curve. Peak numbers weren't indicative of the over all gain we saw on the dyno.

And the 2013 PCV line needs to be shortened to work with the 2008-2010 valve cover. If you have any questions about the install shoot me a PM.


Yeah I am going to take you up this. I think this is the route I would like to go. Did you plan to do a detailed write up? I would like to do this in my home garage and I don't have gobs of tools like I do at my shop so I would like to have everything handy and get it done at once.

Thanks again! Looking forward to the numbers Shooter!

-Tim

[Timnineside]

I also would like to add I took my air box off today and found oil residue outside of the throttle bodies. I'm sure that's not a good thing. It makes me wonder if the gen V intake would reduce the chances of that and reduce the need for a catch can.

[FLATOUT]

Yes I do plan on doing a detailed write up I have all the pictures just need to organize them and get the thread up. Might have time over the holidays.

[J TNT]

Great info , keep us posted ! :fpopcorn:

[IndyRon]

Well, I'd have to figure something else out since I'm running a catch can:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/CatchCan4_zpscff1c0eb.jpg

Does anyone know where I can get this catch can assembly?

[Rocket]

Interesting thread. Totally different looks - so personal preference plays a lot in the decision. I think the polished Gen 4 intake looks a bit more aggressive - but just my opinion. Performance gains would seem to be similar to a ported Gen 4 intake, minus the weight savings. I definitely need to add some type of catch can setup.

http://driveviper.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Pictures_017_Large_.jpg

[FLATOUT]

You also have to factor in the fact that the GEN V manifold won't retain nearly as much heat on track as the ported Gen IV. Both good options, and I agree a polished Gen IV looks better but I think the Gen V offer more performance benefits.

[Steve M]

Does anyone know where I can get this catch can assembly?

I pieced it together myself...I'll send you some details in a PM.

[V10LEE]

Not sure we would have to pull a Gen V throttle body off and see if the back of the TB was coated in oil similar to the Gen IV's. They obviously changed something. The inlet for the blow by is now routed under and to the center of the manifold I would think for a more even distribution of the oil. Not sure how much of a difference it makes but I still don't want any getting in there period.

If you have ever had your manifold off you can see that the front cylinders see more of the oil than the rears. Anytime cylinders are seeing contaminants in an uneven fashion I get concerned. I just want it out of there so I don't have to worry about it when I am beating on the car.

It would be nice to see someone test a Gen V manifold on the track. See how it holds up on the Gen 4 motor lap after lap..

I'm also running a catch can on my ACR..
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/rapid25_2012/IMG_20131003_222210_961_zps71348c2a.jpg (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/rapid25_2012/media/IMG_20131003_222210_961_zps71348c2a.jpg.html)

[TexasTonka]

Great thread, having the Gen V intake installed in Houston this weekend on my 650R ACR. We will see what she puts down soon after, maybe hit the 600 Club? We will see.

Also very interested din the cam timing vs the Gen V cam. HAs anyone already done the in depth research/leg work on this? Don't want to do the swap and me stuck in limp mode or lose low and mid HP/TQ. Rather have mid range than top end as I drive my car more on the back roads than the track.

[ACRucrazy]

Are you going to dyno prior to the intake?

[TexasTonka]

Are you going to dyno prior to the intake?

Ive asked that a before and after dyno be run if there is an opening. Will post it with overlapping charts.

Was as talked out of doing the cam. Too much $ per HP. Waiting to see if the rumors are true about a real programmer coming out for the Gen 4. Think I'd pick up more HP with tuning abilities than a cam swap that is very similar to my current one.

[FLATOUT]

Are you going to dyno prior to the intake?

BLUE LINE : Stock with K&N panel filter

GREEN LINE : Gen V intake manifold & Mopar ECU

RED LINE : Headers, no cats, and stock 2 1/2 inch catback.

I have a set of big primary headers, and a 3 1/2 inch catback on the way to overlay on this graph as well. These pulls were on the same dyno, same car, and same SAE correction factor.


Andy

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/image_zpsea36211d.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/image_zpsea36211d.jpg.html)

[99RT10]

Nice power Andy. Seems the biggest gains were from freeing up exhaust. Is going with the Gen V manifold really worth 8HP? Although torque jumped 20.

[ACRucrazy]

Good good stuff! :D

[FLATOUT]

Nice power Andy. Seems the biggest gains were from freeing up exhaust. Is going with the Gen V manifold really worth 8HP? Although torque jumped 20.

If you're only looking at peak gains maybe not but there are some bigger gains earlier in the pull that mirror that torque gain. Look at the HP gain from 4200-5300 rpm, much larger than just 8hp.

Car idles like stock, and acts no differently than when I bought it. I would like to see a ported Gen IV manifold dyno graph overlayed against the Gen V Manifold.

[99RT10]

If you're only looking at peak gains maybe not but there are some bigger gains earlier in the pull that mirror that torque gain. Look at the HP gain from 4200-5300 rpm, much larger than just 8hp.

Car idles like stock, and acts no differently than when I bought it. I would like to see a ported Gen IV manifold dyno graph overlayed against the Gen V Manifold.

Good point. Now just think what kind of power you would get with a massaged set of GG heads. :D

[FLATOUT]

Good point. Now just think what kind of power you would get with a massaged set of GG heads. :D

That's my next call :D. With Greg here in Houston it shouldn't be too tough to get a set done. Big headers, big catback, and ported heads I would think I could get to 640-650 rwhp.

[Shooter]

Good point. Now just think what kind of power you would get with a massaged set of GG heads. :D

Andy and I differ in this regard I think. I looked into heads before and just don't think the cost justifies the gain. Most I see is around 20 rwhp over the stock heads. I'm sure you probably know more then I do about the Gen 4 heads and know that they are pretty close to the stryker design and flow pretty good. A few Gen 4's here in Houston are running after market heads and I'm not seeing any big gains.

[99RT10]

Andy and I differ in this regard I think. I looked into heads before and just don't think the cost justifies the gain. Most I see is around 20 rwhp over the stock heads. I'm sure you probably know more then I do about the Gen 4 heads and know that they are pretty close to the stryker design and flow pretty good. A few Gen 4's here in Houston are running after market heads and I'm not seeing any big gains.

If that is the case, then it's only because of the limitations of the tuning capability to take advantage of the better flowing air.

[MtnBiker]

Shooter, Andy you guys wanna go for a drive? It's a beautiful day. I'll meet you up north.

John

[FLATOUT]

Shooter, Andy you guys wanna go for a drive? It's a beautiful day. I'll meet you up north.

John

Hey John you have no idea how bad I want to go driving. I am battleing a third graders illness for the third day. I have an inner ear infection and the vertigo is non stop. My iPad is spinning in circles so if my spelling is whack I apologize . Hopping to be walking and driving again in a couple days.

Rob I'll talk to Greg and see what the pricing is if I drop the heads off at his shop.

[MtnBiker]

Sorry to hear that. Get well.

[Shooter]

Shooter, Andy you guys wanna go for a drive? It's a beautiful day. I'll meet you up north.

John

I appreciate the offer sir. Unfortunately I don't want to risk a drive in my car until I get Morgan to replace the leaking diff seal. Sucks because it would be fun, plus I think you and I might have some "interesting" stories to swap. :)

Robert

[MtnBiker]

Understood. Get it taken care of.

[IndyRon]

Andy,
Great numbers. I was hoping you'd hit ~615rw with the Gen V intake and other mods but every dyno is different anyway...get that thing to the track and lets see what kind of MPH it puts down! My 1 7/8 BBG longtubes are being made now. I'm getting set #1 from Toddy. I have my Gen V intake already and am hoping to get some back to back dyno numbers on mine when the weather warms up a bit here in Indy sometime around late march, early april. I haven't decided if I'm going to run high flow cats or not yet but will be running a Corsa 3" exhaust. I'm hoping for 625rw. It's nice to see the ACR guys modding!

[FLATOUT]

Good deal Ron looking forward to your numbers. I have a set of 1 7/8 M&M's being made also with their 3 1/2 inch catback. I am thinking this might get my numbers a bit higher, but with stock heads and cam 600 rwhp is already a plus.

Do you have a dyno graph of your car SAE corrected before adding the mods? Do me a favor and find a dyno you can go to again post mods, and get a run in now. People always say they are going to do before and afters on the same dyno but they never seem to and we miss out on some good info.

I would be very interested to see your complete gain from start to finish with your boltons.

Andy


Andy,
Great numbers. I was hoping you'd hit ~615rw with the Gen V intake and other mods but every dyno is different anyway...get that thing to the track and lets see what kind of MPH it puts down! My 1 7/8 BBG longtubes are being made now. I'm getting set #1 from Toddy. I have my Gen V intake already and am hoping to get some back to back dyno numbers on mine when the weather warms up a bit here in Indy sometime around late march, early april. I haven't decided if I'm going to run high flow cats or not yet but will be running a Corsa 3" exhaust. I'm hoping for 625rw. It's nice to see the ACR guys modding!

[slitherv10]

Sorry for my asking this question, but, I am not mechanically inclined or follow a lot of this as it is all Greek to me.

From what I am gathering, for most, unless your doing this at home in your garage, you would have to spend what? Say 5K to build this or more. The power gains were only 30 Hp?
Again, I am not following this and would appreciate an update. I wouldn't mind dong this to my 08 if it is worth it, But, if the gains are even 50HP, would it justify spending all that money for that mere gain when you could get yourself into a gen 5 for mere thousands more? Just asking. I understand putting colossal amounts of money into a Gen 2 and getting a car that outperforms for a lot less, but, putting money into an 08 ACR that you could sell and for a few thousand more minus the money invested with this build you could be into a gen 5 no? I know in the end its personal preference.

Great build by the way. It must make you proud and accomplished doing this yourself. Gains you a lot of respect among us for sharing I'm sure.

[ACRucrazy]

40hp and 50 foot pounds to the tire NA in this case with simple bolt ons.

How many NA gen III or II are running around with 600 to the tire for 5k?

[FLATOUT]

So you come trolling from the Alley with nothing to offer this thread, except trying to goat Gen IV owners into saying that they overspend for mods?

If you have to spend extra $$$ to have people install parts for you, or handle your maintanance than that is part of your own economic decision making process. I don't so for me it's simply the cost of parts.

Outside of nitrous how much would it cost you to get to 600rwhp with your Gen II, Gen III, or Gen V if you own one? Although its not about the cheap route it's about the most reliable and tested route for me. Why not run a manifold that the factory designed that adds more HP, cuts weight, and dissipates heat better while lowering the center of gravity of the car even if it's only a little. Why not also run headers or exhaust systems that have hours upon hours of on track testing in the ACRX race cars?

Seems like a no brainer to me.

As for wanting a Gen V, the only Gen V faster around the race track than an ACR so far is the Viper TA, and even then by a marginal margin. I'll wait until the next ACR comes out to move to a Gen V because the little money spent on the Gen IV ACR will allow it to go faster than the Gen V TA until the new ACR debuts.





Sorry for my asking this question, but, I am not mechanically inclined or follow a lot of this as it is all Greek to me.

From what I am gathering, for most, unless your doing this at home in your garage, you would have to spend what? Say 5K to build this or more. The power gains were only 30 Hp?
Again, I am not following this and would appreciate an update. I wouldn't mind dong this to my 08 if it is worth it, But, if the gains are even 50HP, would it justify spending all that money for that mere gain when you could get yourself into a gen 5 for mere thousands more? Just asking. I understand putting colossal amounts of money into a Gen 2 and getting a car that outperforms for a lot less, but, putting money into an 08 ACR that you could sell and for a few thousand more minus the money invested with this build you could be into a gen 5 no? I know in the end its personal preference.

Great build by the way. It must make you proud and accomplished doing this yourself. Gains you a lot of respect among us for sharing I'm sure.

[slitherv10]

40hp and 50 foot pounds to the tire NA in this case with simple bolt ons.

How many NA gen III or II are running around with 600 to the tire for 5k?

Not many, but to their defence you can get one for 40K where as the cheapest gen 4 would cost you @55K and an ACR would start at mid 70's. That's a 30 K swing in this case. I would think you could get well over 600RWHP with only 12K SC on a gen 2 no? The 5K your stating is on top of the money spent for the car making it closer to 80K for an 08 ACR never mind an 09 or 10 which reaches 13, 14 Viper territory no?
Again its all in what your personal taste is and how much is in your bank account.

Is it only 5K though...that is if your doing it yourself. how much to get that RWHP if you had to get it done by a Viper shop, is it worth it then?

[FLATOUT]

Great build by the way. It must make you proud and accomplished doing this yourself. Gains you a lot of respect among us for sharing I'm sure.

And that above is creepy and weird. This thread is and was a technical discussion about the benefit of using either the ported Gen IV manifold or a stock Gen V manifold and the characteristics of the composites on track performance compared to our current options.

Not unsimilar to discussing Gen III heads and intake on a Gen II Heads and Cam combo.

[ACRucrazy]

The ACR argument is a moot point. You can find gen IVs in the 50s if you look. Ive even seen a few in the high 40s. Comparing a top of the line Gen IV ACR price to a decade older Gen II is apple's to oranges.

I never understood these $$$ arguements. For less than a Gen II I can go find a fox body mustang or a LS powered truck throw some $$ at it and have more power for less than the price of admission of a ratted out Viper.

[slitherv10]

So you come trolling from the Alley with nothing to offer this thread, except trying to goat Gen IV owners into saying that they overspend for mods?

If you have to spend extra $$$ to have people install parts for you, or handle your maintanance than that is part of your own economic decision making process. I don't so for me it's simply the cost of parts.

Outside of nitrous how much would it cost you to get to 600rwhp with your Gen II, Gen III, or Gen V if you own one? Although its not about the cheap route it's about the most reliable and tested route for me. Why not run a manifold that the factory designed that adds more HP, cuts weight, and dissipates heat better while lowering the center of gravity of the car even if it's only a little. Why not also run headers or exhaust systems that have hours upon hours of on track testing in the ACRX race cars?

Seems like a no brainer to me.

As for wanting a Gen V, the only Gen V faster around the race track than an ACR so far is the Viper TA, and even then by a marginal margin. I'll wait until the next ACR comes out to move to a Gen V because the little money spent on the Gen IV ACR will allow it to go faster than the Gen V TA until the new ACR debuts.

The alley is full of trolls, its known for that. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

As for your remarks as me trying to Goat gen 4 owners....ahhm!!...I am a gen 4 owner, That is why I am asking if it is feasible for what your doing if I had to get a shop to do it for me. You gotta start reading the posts Flat, Not just making self applied comments.
I was merely asking as a Potential Gen 4 owner. Is this not why your posting results here and info? What other motive would you have? Am I not allowed to ask for advice? If we can't comment on your thread without getting Neg Rep, why else would you post this build. Come on.

So I thank you for your reply as It answered my question. It looks like it is not worth spending the money if done by a shop.

[FLATOUT]

Ok well if that's your argument lets pull out the tried and true fox body mustang analogy lol.

Didn't turn out to well in this comparo:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RyiQU17R4Ew&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRyiQU17R4Ew




Not many, but to their defence you can get one for 40K where as the cheapest gen 4 would cost you @55K and an ACR would start at mid 70's. That's a 30 K swing in this case. I would think you could get well over 600RWHP with only 12K SC on a gen 2 no? The 5K your stating is on top of the money spent for the car making it closer to 80K for an 08 ACR never mind an 09 or 10 which reaches 13, 14 Viper territory no?
Again its all in what your personal taste is and how much is in your bank account.

Is it only 5K though...that is if your doing it yourself. how much to get that RWHP if you had to get it done by a Viper shop, is it worth it then?

[FLATOUT]

Well if you don't know how to work on your cars it doesn't really matter at all, as anything you will have done will cost you extra.

Are you asking me if there is a cheaper way for you to add 50rwp to your gen IV if you don't have the experience to do it yourself?

The answer to that is no, and that would apply across the board gen 1-5. A header or intake install will cost you roughly the same amount on each platform.

I'm trying to follow your logic, one second your talking about buying a cheap Gen II and spending large sums, and the next your talking about a Gen IV you want to mod.


The alley is full of trolls, its known for that. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

As for your remarks as me trying to Goat gen 4 owners....ahhm!!...I am a gen 4 owner, That is why I am asking if it is feasible for what your doing if I had to get a shop to do it for me. You gotta start reading the posts Flat, Not just making self applied comments.
I was merely asking as a Potential Gen 4 owner. Is this not why your posting results here and info? What other motive would you have? Am I not allowed to ask for advice? If we can't comment on your thread without getting Neg Rep, why else would you post this build. Come on.

So I thank you for your reply as It answered my question. It looks like it is not worth spending the money if done by a shop.

[slitherv10]

Ok well if that's your argument lets pull out the tried and true fox body mustang analogy lol.

Didn't turn out to well in this comparo:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RyiQU17R4Ew&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRyiQU17R4Ew

As per your quote" I don't think we see eye to eye and that may be a good thing"

Not getting what your pointing at here.....plus.....your getting off topic from this thread.

got my answer thanks

[slitherv10]

Well if you don't know how to work on your cars it doesn't really matter at all, as anything you will have done will cost you extra.

Are you asking me if there is a cheaper way for you to add 50rwp to your gen IV if you don't have the experience to do it yourself?

The answer to that is no, and that would apply across the board gen 1-5. A header or intake install will cost you roughly the same amount on each platform.

I'm trying to follow your logic, one second your talking about buying a cheap Gen II and spending large sums, and the next your talking about a Gen IV you want to mod.

^^^^^That's because I have one of each and can't decide which way to go ( tough situation to be in), the other is I am thinking of dropping this all together and just getting into a 2010 ACR and calling it a day.

[IndyRon]

[/B]

^^^^^That's because I have one of each and can't decide which way to go ( tough situation to be in), the other is I am thinking of dropping this all together and just getting into a 2010 ACR and calling it a day.

You can get into a Gen IV ACR for 70-75k. You can get into a Gen V for 100k+. That is significantly more than 5k. Headers and intake on a Gen IV and you are faster and making more power than a Gen V. For me, the looks of a Gen IV ACR are so far above the looks of the Gen V that even if they were the same price, I'd still buy the Gen IV ACR. The only category the Gen V significantly improves over the Gen IV ACR is interior quality...that is of no significance to me...I'd buy a Porsche or Audi if I wanted a nice interior.

[FLATOUT]

[/B]

^^^^^That's because I have one of each and can't decide which way to go ( tough situation to be in), the other is I am thinking of dropping this all together and just getting into a 2010 ACR and calling it a day.

Why don't you start a new thread so people can help you with your decision. This thread is about adapting the 2013 manifold to a 2008/2010 model car.

Hijack another thread or start your own.

[FLATOUT]

Ron I am very interested in your before and after dyno's as long as they are on the same dyno. Really appreciate you getting some before and after numbers.



You can get into a Gen IV ACR for 70-75k. You can get into a Gen V for 100k+. That is significantly more than 5k. Headers and intake on a Gen IV and you are faster and making more power than a Gen V. For me, the looks of a Gen IV ACR are so far above the looks of the Gen V that even if they were the same price, I'd still buy the Gen IV ACR. The only category the Gen V significantly improves over the Gen IV ACR is interior quality...that is of no significance to me...I'd buy a Porsche or Audi if I wanted a nice interior.

[Shooter]

You can get into a Gen IV ACR for 70-75k. You can get into a Gen V for 100k+. That is significantly more than 5k. Headers and intake on a Gen IV and you are faster and making more power than a Gen V. For me, the looks of a Gen IV ACR are so far above the looks of the Gen V that even if they were the same price, I'd still buy the Gen IV ACR. The only category the Gen V significantly improves over the Gen IV ACR is interior quality...that is of no significance to me...I'd buy a Porsche or Audi if I wanted a nice interior.

Well said IndyRon.

To comment on the modding the cars yourself vs getting a shop or Viper tech to do it as asked by the new Alley troll. It depends on your comfort level. Andy helped me do the intake swap at his place in about 3 hrs. I have never done one so it was a great confidence booster for working on these cars. Figure it would have been $300 to 400$ in labor at a shop. Instead I learned more about my car. And the almost 20 rwhp gained in the 4000 to 5800 rpm range couldn't be in a more usable place for an ACR that's going to see some track days and time trials.

[plumcrazy]

lets try to keep the smack talk out of this area...please ?

[IndyRon]

Ron I am very interested in your before and after dyno's as long as they are on the same dyno. Really appreciate you getting some before and after numbers.

Andy, I'll do just that. I am very interested in technical comparisons and data by nature so I keep a copy of winpep on my computer at home and download all my dyno runs to compare. I'll also measure DA, temp, humidity on the runs as well. The Viper community is lacking on this type of raw data comparisons and I'm hoping to contribute to it positively for those folks who enjoy upgrading/modifying their cars.


Well said IndyRon.

To comment on the modding the cars yourself vs getting a shop or Viper tech to do it as asked by the new Alley troll. It depends on your comfort level. Andy helped me do the intake swap at his place in about 3 hrs. I have never done one so it was a great confidence booster for working on these cars. Figure it would have been $300 to 400$ in labor at a shop. Instead I learned more about my car. And the almost 20 rwhp gained in the 4000 to 5800 rpm range couldn't be in a more usable place for an ACR that's going to see some track days and time trials.

Shooter, I spoke with Andy a while back about his perception on the driveability and power with the new intake. What are your thoughts? You still running a stock PCM? Thanks.

[Shooter]

Shooter, I spoke with Andy a while back about his perception on the driveability and power with the new intake. What are your thoughts? You still running a stock PCM? Thanks.

Yes I'm running the stock PCM. The car idles better and pulls much harder to redline. I dyno'd 562 rwhp stock so I am looking forward to what the gains will be. Like was noted with Andy's car, I expect to see more of a usable hp increase through the range as opposed to a big (ish) peak hp gain. I want to go as far as I can without the Mopar PCM. Hopefully some other tuning options will be available for us Gen IV (and V) owners this year. I would rather spend $1500-$2000 and be able to tune like the Gen III guy's, then drop $1100 on a Mopar PCM that is untunable just so I can run headers.

[FLATOUT]

Good deal I think as long as we post everything SAE corrected we should have good comparable data. For instance my car made 613rwhp un corrected on the 602 SAE run.

Glad you have win pep I have a Mac and I have a problem downloading the .drf files so I emailed them to Dyno jet to convert and resend lol. Next time I'll email them to you :).



Andy, I'll do just that. I am very interested in technical comparisons and data by nature so I keep a copy of winpep on my computer at home and download all my dyno runs to compare. I'll also measure DA, temp, humidity on the runs as well. The Viper community is lacking on this type of raw data comparisons and I'm hoping to contribute to it positively for those folks who enjoy upgrading/modifying their cars.



Shooter, I spoke with Andy a while back about his perception on the driveability and power with the new intake. What are your thoughts? You still running a stock PCM? Thanks.

[slitherv10]

Why don't you start a new thread so people can help you with your decision. This thread is about adapting the 2013 manifold to a 2008/2010 model car.

Hijack another thread or start your own.

you don't seem to read too well. I have a Gen 4...I have an 08...I am looking at maybe going this route if it is feasible to do so if I decide to get a shop to do it for me as I am not mechanically inclined. Do you understand it in plain English guy. I am not high jacking anyones thread here, I am looking for information regarding this build. God man your dense.

[slitherv10]

Well said IndyRon.

To comment on the modding the cars yourself vs getting a shop or Viper tech to do it as asked by the new Alley troll. It depends on your comfort level. Andy helped me do the intake swap at his place in about 3 hrs. I have never done one so it was a great confidence booster for working on these cars. Figure it would have been $300 to 400$ in labor at a shop. Instead I learned more about my car. And the almost 20 rwhp gained in the 4000 to 5800 rpm range couldn't be in a more usable place for an ACR that's going to see some track days and time trials.

Well again, I quote again " If the heats too hot, stay out of the kitchen!,,,i thought the Alley was where trolls roll.

On another note, Thanks for the information. For the mere gains it looks like it may be worth the swap, as Indy also noted, it well worth the money for the difference in dineros. Your analogy of where you gain the HP is of interest here. Makes a lot of sense to improve what it already has or hasn't in this case. Why touch the rest of the build of the car when all you need is to get gains where the factory missed them.
Thank for putting that into perspective Shooter. I am not very mechanically inclined and posting with questions on these threads has been great for my mechanical end that , I from factory build am missing as a human. Hey...I made a funny:smilielol:

[Viper Girl]

lets try to keep the smack talk out of this area...please ?
HA Plum! How about keep smack talk off the forums period! :t1232:


Looks great Flatout!
I think this is a great mod for a Gen IV... There's more to it than just HP according to the SRT engineers... If I remember correctly the Gen V intake was around $1,300. A 7 pound instant diet!

This change would also result in about a 10 horsepower improvement with added low and mid-range torque. You would also save 7 pounds of weight and get the added thermal benefits of the composite (compared to the Gen IV aluminum) material.

[FLATOUT]

Yep, easy mod with multiple benefits. You can pick these up from Jon B for closer to $1,000 if that helps anyone.



HA Plum! How about keep smack talk off the forums period! :t1232:


Looks great Flatout!
I think this is a great mod for a Gen IV... There's more to it than just HP according to the SRT engineers... If I remember correctly the Gen V intake was around $1,300. A 7 pound instant diet!

This change would also result in about a 10 horsepower improvement with added low and mid-range torque. You would also save 7 pounds of weight and get the added thermal benefits of the composite (compared to the Gen IV aluminum) material.

[J TNT]

Looking forward to seeing the dyno numbers :) Will be interesting to see who will hit 675 Rear wheel Horsepower in either a Gen 3,4 or 5 . :)

[FLATOUT]

Looking forward to seeing the dyno numbers :) Will be interesting to see who will hit 675 Rear wheel Horsepower in either a Gen 3,4 or 5 . :)

Might be able to do it with a solid roller setup in a gen III. If we can't tune a Gen IV or use a big cam option I think it will be tough for a Gen IV to get over 640-650rwhp.

[01sapphirebob]

God I love this thread! Makes me want to mod the car more!:drive::dude3::dancingman:

[slitherv10]

Might be able to do it with a solid roller setup in a gen III. If we can't tune a Gen IV or use a big cam option I think it will be tough for a Gen IV to get over 640-650rwhp.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, would the Gen5 intake, heads, or gen4 polished and ported heads, exhaust, mopar pcm, filters and tubes along with some fine tuning get you more than 650 RW?

I thought Dan or someone to that extent had corrected me in a thread ( I thought it was this one) that it is possible to get close to 700 RW with a gen 4 with those mods. Close is the word here.

maybe Dan can chime in and remind me or you may be able to help me in this regard.

[Shooter]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, would the Gen5 intake, heads, or gen4 polished and ported heads, exhaust, mopar pcm, filters and tubes along with some fine tuning get you more than 650 RW?

I thought Dan or someone to that extent had corrected me in a thread ( I thought it was this one) that it is possible to get close to 700 RW with a gen 4 with those mods. Close is the word here.

maybe Dan can chime in and remind me or you may be able to help me in this regard.

I'm unsure of what you mean by "fine tuning". There are no tuning options for the Gen IV outside of Motec or Pectal right now. Both of those have a 10k+ price tag.

[FLATOUT]

Give Dan a call I'm sure he'd love to chat with you about it.


Correct me if I'm wrong but, would the Gen5 intake, heads, or gen4 polished and ported heads, exhaust, mopar pcm, filters and tubes along with some fine tuning get you more than 650 RW?

I thought Dan or someone to that extent had corrected me in a thread ( I thought it was this one) that it is possible to get close to 700 RW with a gen 4 with those mods. Close is the word here.

maybe Dan can chime in and remind me or you may be able to help me in this regard.

[slitherv10]

I'm unsure of what you mean by "fine tuning". There are no tuning options for the Gen IV outside of Motec or Pectal right now. Both of those have a 10k+ price tag.
Wouldn't a Mopar PCM need to be tuned to the mods when installed?

[FLATOUT]

Wouldn't a Mopar PCM need to be tuned to the mods when installed?

Not possible.

[Rocket]

YET .... hopefully .... as some have discussed .... as I have heads, intake, and full exhaust work done on my 2009 with the Mopar PCM and am sure there is a lot left on the table if we could tune it.


Not possible.

[FLATOUT]

YET .... hopefully .... as some have discussed .... as I have heads, intake, and full exhaust work done on my 2009 with the Mopar PCM and am sure there is a lot left on the table if we could tune it.

True, was excited to see what SCT was releasing at SEMA but nothing materialized for the Gen IV V guys. HP Tuners is where I think our break through comes from.

[ACRucrazy]

It's crazy to think $2000 for intake/computer & $2000-$3000 in exhaust and you have 600 RWHP on a NA bolton car.

[Steve M]

True, was excited to see what SCT was releasing at SEMA but nothing materialized for the Gen IV V guys. HP Tuners is where I think our break through comes from.

From Bill over at the HPTuners forum:


Still working on the scanner, we've been working on getting 08 & possibly other Viper support added(we successfully were able to tune one already) by first quarter of next year. At this time thats about the only information I can offer.

I'm sure they are making sure there aren't any major bugs before a public release. Either way, I'll likely be buying another interface soon (I sold my old one when I sold my Camaro shortly after buying my Viper).

[FLATOUT]

It helps he owns an 08 Viper :)

[Steve M]

It helps he owns an 08 Viper :)

Keith owns an '06 that I think he converted to a Gen 4, but I'm not sure what exactly he did.

Either way, it's the only reason we might see some actual software...someone with the right skill set and a passion for Vipers decided to do it. I doubt it will be profitable for them, unfortunately.

[ACRucrazy]

:t89039:

[01sapphirebob]

If anyone is looking for a bolt on package I have a Gen V intake and Mopar PCM avail for the 08-10.
Both new. $1900 shipped in the lower 48.
:t89039:

Tempting. I still cant decide what i want to do.

[venomous08]

Tempting. I still cant decide what i want to do.

Same here, I am still not sure which way to go. Mopar Controller in hand just waiting to order the rest of the stuff...

[DreadLox]

:t1236: I think I'm going to go for it. I already have the Mopar PCM, AR Headers, no cats, Corsa Catback, K&N Typhoon Air Intake, and a few other things non engine related. Ill definitly get before and after dyno pulls as well! Unfortunately it probably won't be until spring tho, my Viper is on a lift at a local Quaker Steak & Lube. Which is cool but now that it's winter I want to work on it lol. FLATOUT, awesome thread btw man, and thanks for all the help!

Also.......


It's crazy to think $2000 for intake/computer & $2000-$3000 in exhaust and you have 600 RWHP on a NA bolton car.

^What he said!

[FLATOUT]

^^^^^^^
Anytime, when you get around to installing it shoot me a pm and I'll get you my cell incase you get stuck:)

[FrgMstr]

I bought the Gen V intake that ACRucrazy had for sale. Went and did three pulls on the dyno last night so I can do a solid before and after comparison of the just the intake swap.

[CERVEZA]

I bought the Gen V intake that ACRucrazy had for sale. Went and did three pulls on the dyno last night so I can do a solid before and after comparison of the just the intake swap.

Would love to see the results!!! Thank you

[FrgMstr]

Found an inexpensive torque "wrench" that has great reviews at Amazon to do the install with.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RZ1D86/?tag=hardfocom-20

[IndyRon]

Found an inexpensive torque "wrench" that has great reviews at Amazon to do the install with.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RZ1D86/?tag=hardfocom-20

..Except, the intake is torqued to 95 in-lbs...

[FLATOUT]

Found an inexpensive torque "wrench" that has great reviews at Amazon to do the install with.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RZ1D86/?tag=hardfocom-20


..Except, the intake is torqued to 95 in-lbs...

That was my fault I sent him a PM saying 10 inch lbs. Sorry FrgMstr. What I meant to say was my micro wrench went down to 10ftlbs which is roughly 120 inch lbs.

[FrgMstr]

That was my fault I sent him a PM saying 10 inch lbs. Sorry FrgMstr. What I meant to say was my micro wrench went down to 10ftlbs which is roughly 120 inch lbs.

I thought that was tremendously low, but seeing you had done several, I was not in a position to call bull. :)

I bought this one to do the install when I was planning on PnP on the Stocker. Will be perfect.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/214yW2nwKjL.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0089N63JW/?tag=hardfocom-20

[FLATOUT]

Yeah terribly sorry about that. The one pictured above is the one I have. So 8ftlbs = 95 inch lbs I torqued mine to 10ftlbs or 125 inch lbs.



I thought that was tremendously low, but seeing you had done several, I was not in a position to call bull. :)

I bought this one to do the install when I was planning on PnP on the Stocker. Will be perfect.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/214yW2nwKjL.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0089N63JW/?tag=hardfocom-20

[DreadLox]

Haven't seem this thread in a while wanted to check in on the guys who did the swap and ask them how everything is holding up.

[FLATOUT]

Haven't seem this thread in a while wanted to check in on the guys who did the swap and ask them how everything is holding up.

Doing great, I did get a CEL last week from a vacuum leak. Found that the two tubes connecting just behind the throttle bodies were a little loose so I put some zip ties on them and all is well. If you have sluggish throttle response check these connections and make sure they are tight.

[FrgMstr]

Doing the swap right now. The manual says to pull the fuel line at the fuel rail. How the hell does this thing come off and does it need to?

[FLATOUT]

Don't pull give me a call pm sent

[DreadLox]

Doing the swap right now. The manual says to pull the fuel line at the fuel rail. How the hell does this thing come off and does it need to?

I don't know how they come off, haven't tried or looked that up. You'll have to let me know what else you run into tho, if anything. I'm sure FLATOUT will respond with the answer(s) you need. I just bought the intake and hose from ACRucrazy but won't be able to get mine done till spring. I look forward to pics from you too man! Good luck :)

[FrgMstr]

Got all the torque / crush sleeves trimmed, and fitted......gonna grab some shuteye. Hopefully get it knocked out early morning. Took pics of the interesting stuff, which is not much.

[ACRucrazy]

Got all the torque / crush sleeves trimmed, and fitted......gonna grab some shuteye. Hopefully get it knocked out early morning. Took pics of the interesting stuff, which is not much.

Sweet stuff! Can't wait to see pics and hear results.

[FLATOUT]

Got all the torque / crush sleeves trimmed, and fitted......gonna grab some shuteye. Hopefully get it knocked out early morning. Took pics of the interesting stuff, which is not much.

LOL this is an easy 30 minute install interrupted by 2 hours of trimming those damn torque limiters. Easy but time consuming.

Good job man and great talking to you on the phone.

[FrgMstr]

Sweet stuff! Can't wait to see pics and hear results.

Before I hit the sack. :) Not sure I am going to be able to get back to it in the morning, but by Sunday for sure. (Going out of town)

2534 2535

[FLATOUT]

Looks great!

[FrgMstr]

Looks great!


If the process works out well I will do a write up in this thread on it. Like everything else on the car, nothing was same length! You could have cut all of these on a jig in a band saw and still had to go back and fit and trim..... :stickmen_burningsti

[J TNT]

Nice work , thanks for sharing . :)

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Before I hit the sack. :) Not sure I am going to be able to get back to it in the morning, but by Sunday for sure. (Going out of town)

2534 2535

I'll be watching as well to see how your install goes. Still haven't decided if I'm going to flush cut mine like this or just cut them back to clear as others have done... These look great though.

[FrgMstr]

I got about an hour before I have to get on the road, so no results till Sunday. Sorry. I did trim these back so that the face of the sleeve is just slightly below the face of the mating surface. Probably about .25mm to .5mm. One I simply fubarred and it is about 1mm too short.

These are made out of aluminum, so they are easy to work with. The wall of the flange is only snug fitting at the top. The bottom has room around the sleeve. Seems these are made to "crush" a bit.

A quick rundown of the process....

1. Tapped all sleeves so that they were sticking out the top a bit with a punch and a rubber mallet. Then used the bolt with built in washer to tap the tops back level.

2. Got a sharpie with a nice sharp tip on it and drew around the sleeve facing.

2541

3. Took that sleeve and put it in a vice....very easily because ALUMINUM....then used a Dremel tool with a cut off wheel and removed portion with the Sharpie mark. Grab it with pliers and quench it before you touch it!

4. Laid a piece of 250 grit sand paper on a nice flat portion of the bench to knock off the burs and give it a nice end finish. At this point the longest you want the piece to be is 34.65mm. This was the longest one I used that hand fitted up correctly. I had a couple that were in the 33mm length. But you can tap the sleeve back in and use a bolt to get level at the top to test fit and see where material needs to be removed. Since these are aluminum, it is not a problem to remove material with the sand paper on a hard flat surface.

Like I said, I am not even sure this works at this point, but it seems like it should be better than straight cutting these......and since I am a bit OCD, I feel better about it anyway. And it was a good excuse to stay in the garage for 4 hours and get some relaxation. :) I did not rush at all.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

FrgMstr -

It is interesting to me you found the lengths to all be slightly different. This could explain past issues with the angled part if manufactured/cut all to the same length. Some may have been sticking out too far causing alignment issues and leaks. Maybe angle cutting requires the attention to detail you've done here and making sure each limiter fits perfectly where it will be installed. I think angled is better than straight cut (in theory) but FLATOUT has had good results with the straight cut as well. Keep us posted and thanks for the update.

[Shooter]

FrgMstr -

It is interesting to me you found the lengths to all be slightly different. This could explain past issues with the angled part if manufactured/cut all to the same length. Some may have been sticking out too far causing alignment issues and leaks. Maybe angle cutting requires the attention to detail you've done here and making sure each limiter fits perfectly where it will be installed. I think angled is better than straight cut (in theory) but FLATOUT has had good results with the straight cut as well. Keep us posted and thanks for the update.

Andy and I did my intake the same. We just cut the crush sleeves straight and I haven't had any issues at all. Probably just a matter of personal preference.

[IndyRon]

Andy and I did my intake the same. We just cut the crush sleeves straight and I haven't had any issues at all. Probably just a matter of personal preference.

There would be no problem either way. You could actually cut them in half and they would work just fine also. They are strictly locating sleeves so as long as they are in place to locate the intake over the heads intake ports, you are GTG.

[FrgMstr]

There would be no problem either way. You could actually cut them in half and they would work just fine also. They are strictly locating sleeves so as long as they are in place to locate the intake over the heads intake ports, you are GTG.


OK, this is what I did not know. If these are for location only, then I wasted my time. I thought these were "torque limiters." If not, I would likely be better off just cutting these back to make sure these are out of the way.

[ACRucrazy]

SRTengineers called them torque limiters. Take it for what its worth I guess.

[FLATOUT]

SRTengineers called them torque limiters. Take it for what its worth I guess.

That's how I looked at them although eith them being slightly different lengths I wasn't too concerned about it. Most important thing is to torque to spec and not crank on the fasteners and crack the manifold.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I'm sure part of their function is to make the installation more efficient and fool proof for mass production. Allow for perfect alignment and prevent over torquing in a production environment. These are things that can be overcome on an a individual installation. That said I'm still interested to see how the angled cut limiter installation goes.

[DreadLox]

This is off current topic... but just wanted to ask this;
Apparently these are a few things that are done to my ACR, things done before I bought it. Some I knew, the others I just found out (Thank you Mark and Bill @ Woodhouse Dodge) I already ordered the Gen V intake manifold, I'm hoping I didn't waste my money. I personally think just the weight difference & heat dissipation of the Gen V if anything make it still worth it. I'm still going to do the swap this spring. Just wanted anyone's input. Figured this is the best thread to ask on.
Thanks

BLACK BBG ACRX HEADERS AND CORSA CATBACK
MOPAR PCM AND CALIBRATE
GIKEN DIFFERENTIAL USING THE STOCK GEARS
MGW SHIFTER
CORNER WEIGHT AND COMP ALIGNMENT
PORTED LOWER INTAKE

The ported lower intake is the reason I ask

[J TNT]

As noted above ,it appears to Limit over torqueing , and get correct compression on the O Ring , we use similar devices on High Voltage equipment and refer to them as Stop Gaskets .

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Dreadlox -

I agree with you - the heat / weight is worth it. Obviously the gain is more going from stock but you'll still be improving the car.

[DreadLox]

Dreadlox -

I agree with you - the heat / weight is worth it. Obviously the gain is more going from stock but you'll still be improving the car.

Thanks, it's always good to hear others input as well. I got a great deal on the intake anyway.
Looking forward FrgMstr's updates when he gets back

[FrgMstr]

Hopefully I will be back in the garage by,1800 , tomorrow.to give it a go. Just in time to wake up the neighborhood.

[Steve M]

OK, this is what I did not know. If these are for location only, then I wasted my time. I thought these were "torque limiters." If not, I would likely be better off just cutting these back to make sure these are out of the way.

They are definitely torque limiters...although I've not seen Gen V heads with the manifold removed, my guess is that each of these holes in the head have a machined flat to accept these pieces so that when you go to tighten the bolts, they contact that machined surface instead of warping the plastic.

[Black Pearl]

Is the Newer Mopar PCM needed for the GenV intake installation?

[Shooter]

Is the Newer Mopar PCM needed for the GenV intake installation?
No.

[FrgMstr]

Got it all buttoned up this afternoon. On start up I got the lightning bolt warning on the dash and I pulled a P0108 code.

P0108-MAP SENSOR VOLTAGE TOO HIGH - SRT10

Any suggestions? And yes, I did disconnect the battery at the fuse box during install. And I did the throttle relearn as outlined on VA.

[ACRucrazy]

Did you use your stock MAP sensor or the Gen V one that comes bolted to the manifold?

(I have no idea if they are the same part number, just thinking out loud)

[FrgMstr]

Did you use your stock MAP sensor or the Gen V one that comes bolted to the manifold?

(I have no idea if they are the same part number, just thinking out loud)


I just had a dumbass moment, need to go check something.

Edit: Yeah, all problems went away when I actually completed the job.....like pluggin in that sensor at the rear of the intake. Yeah, Immadumass. Going to go take a ride.

Thanks for rattling my thoughts ACR.

[FrgMstr]

Ran great. Starts up smoother, and is smoother coming back to idle. First gear acceleration seemed stronger, but that may just be wishful thinking. Ran it up through the gears twice out here on "1 mile bridge" where you can do that safely. Pulled awesome. Seat of the pants dyno felt very good.

It threw a CEL about a mile into the 10 mile trip. I came home and tried to get it to read on the dash display, but it ended up clearing itself before I could read it.

Going to let her cool off and go back and retorque all the bolts....

So what is the consensus on mileage and driving habits to get the Mopar PCM to set up? I have heard, smooth driving for 50 miles, and I have heard aggressive driving for 150.......any thoughts??

[FrgMstr]

Did you use your stock MAP sensor or the Gen V one that comes bolted to the manifold?

(I have no idea if they are the same part number, just thinking out loud)

And to answer your question, I used the one that was bolted to the manifold. (For some reason, I did not have that on my checklist when I was buttoning up. Easy to see on that silver colored intake, easy to miss on that black especially when you have the plug end tucked back out of the way.)

[FLATOUT]

I had one cell and it was for raised idle (leak) I resecured all my vacuume lines and retorqued everything and haven't had any problems since.

Glad you got it done!


Ran great. Starts up smoother, and is smoother coming back to idle. First gear acceleration seemed stronger, but that may just be wishful thinking. Ran it up through the gears twice out here on "1 mile bridge" where you can do that safely. Pulled awesome. Seat of the pants dyno felt very good.

It threw a CEL about a mile into the 10 mile trip. I came home and tried to get it to read on the dash display, but it ended up clearing itself before I could read it.

Going to let her cool off and go back and retorque all the bolts....

So what is the consensus on mileage and driving habits to get the Mopar PCM to set up? I have heard, smooth driving for 50 miles, and I have heard aggressive driving for 150.......any thoughts??

[DreadLox]

And to answer your question, I used the one that was bolted to the manifold. (For some reason, I did not have that on my checklist when I was buttoning up. Easy to see on that silver colored intake, easy to miss on that black especially when you have the plug end tucked back out of the way.)

So wait, should you use the Gen 4 or Gen 5 sensor?

[ACRucrazy]

I think they are the same sensor, and if they are not, its 1 phillips screw to swap out.

[FrgMstr]

For the pics or shens crowd!

http://kylebennett.com/files/hfpics/GenVManiInstall-0.jpg http://kylebennett.com/files/hfpics/GenVManiInstall-1.jpg http://kylebennett.com/files/hfpics/GenVManiInstall-2.jpg http://kylebennett.com/files/hfpics/GenVManiInstall-3.jpg http://kylebennett.com/files/hfpics/GenVManiInstall-4.jpg

[FLATOUT]

Looks awesome man I have one of those close out panels on order can't wait to get it.

[DreadLox]

I think they are the same sensor, and if they are not, its 1 phillips screw to swap out.

Ok... Just wanted to make sure.
So I received the Gen V intake manifold today! Thank you ACRucrazy for the great deal! Unfortunately as I said before I won't be able to do the swap until spring. Looking forward to the continued updates from all you guys that have successfully done the swap and how things go long term.... And if it truly matters how the "torque limiters" are cut (I'm assuming no).

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac176/DreadLox711/My%20ACR%20viper/image_zpsaceca2c9.jpg (http://s897.photobucket.com/user/DreadLox711/media/My%20ACR%20viper/image_zpsaceca2c9.jpg.html)

FrgMstr, those pics are great! Love it. And off topic.... Do the "close out panels" work with the k&n typhoon kit?

[FrgMstr]

Ok... Just wanted to make sure.
So I received the Gen V intake manifold today! Thank you ACRucrazy for the great deal! Unfortunately as I said before I won't be able to do the swap until spring. Looking forward to the continued updates from all you guys that have successfully done the swap and how things go long term.... And if it truly matters how the "torque limiters" are cut (I'm assuming no).

FrgMstr, those pics are great! Love it. And off topic.... Do the "close out panels" work with the k&n typhoon kit?

After the install, I seriously doubt that cutting the torque limiters at the angle and hand fitting will make any difference. I think it will be interesting to see how they hold up over the long run though.

On the close-out panel, I do not think it would work with a non-stock air box. And from what I have read, there is really no benefit to the K&N kit other than looks. Some have even said it reduces HP/TQ.......The Viper tech at my local dealer told me that there was no reason to put one on and the damn things are expensive to boot! :)

[FrgMstr]

And let me say big props to FLATOUT for posting his experience up and sharing in such detail. I was just about to send my intake out for PnP and decided to give this a try first. FLATOUT also made himself available by phone which I took advantage of, and I wanted to give him a big THANK YOU for that as well. Great to be part of this community. Now if I can just get a VOA chapter in North Texas.....

[J TNT]

Nice Mod ! Keep us posted on before and after Dyno numbers . :t1236:

[01sapphirebob]

This thread delivers!!! I love it!

[Rocket]

Great thread. How are the torque limiters cut on the Gen 5? Gotta believe that the engineers put some thought into them and their purpose both long and short term.

[FLATOUT]

And let me say big props to FLATOUT for posting his experience up and sharing in such detail. I was just about to send my intake out for PnP and decided to give this a try first. FLATOUT also made himself available by phone which I took advantage of, and I wanted to give him a big THANK YOU for that as well. Great to be part of this community. Now if I can just get a VOA chapter in North Texas.....


Hey anytime man, I kind of feel like we're all in this together lol. I like seeing guys learn or share their experiences working on the Viper. It's a pretty wrench friendly platform.

[Steve M]

Great thread. How are the torque limiters cut on the Gen 5? Gotta believe that the engineers put some thought into them and their purpose both long and short term.

They aren't cut on the Gen 5...how you see them in the before pics is how they come for that application. On the Gen 5, the heads are machined to accept them.

[DreadLox]

After the install, I seriously doubt that cutting the torque limiters at the angle and hand fitting will make any difference. I think it will be interesting to see how they hold up over the long run though.

On the close-out panel, I do not think it would work with a non-stock air box. And from what I have read, there is really no benefit to the K&N kit other than looks. Some have even said it reduces HP/TQ.......The Viper tech at my local dealer told me that there was no reason to put one on and the damn things are expensive to boot! :)

Unfortunately I bought into the whole "increase horsepower by 15-20!"... And I've been told they don't necessarily do much... I don't have any proof either way, hopefully the "decreases HP" is not true lol. Well we will see, mine pulled 553whp but was only pulled to 5,250 RPMS...with all the stuff done to it it should be around 600whp now. So I'm going to do before and after pulls to see what we get for the "ported lower Gen IV intake vs Gen V intake"

FrgMstr: do you have a picture showing how you joined the PCV hoses together? I didn't see a oil catch can so was wondering how you joined them up. Thanks

[Dustin]

Keith owns an '06 that I think he converted to a Gen 4, but I'm not sure what exactly he did.

Either way, it's the only reason we might see some actual software...someone with the right skill set and a passion for Vipers decided to do it. I doubt it will be profitable for them, unfortunately.

I let Keith borrow my 08 for R&D and took one for the team.

[TrackAire]

The Gen 5 manifold looks fantastic on a Gen 4 motor.....too bad it doesn't have the same eye appeal on the Gen 5 with all the plastic cladding, etc.
Nice write up on all the different installs...keep them coming.

Cheers,
George

[Steve M]

I let Keith borrow my 08 for R&D and took one for the team.

What was he able to mess with?

[FrgMstr]

FrgMstr: do you have a picture showing how you joined the PCV hoses together? I didn't see a oil catch can so was wondering how you joined them up. Thanks

I am going to do a catch can next. There was oil pooled in my throttle bodies, but not a terrible amount in the old intake itself. But surely something to be addressed. You can make a do it yourself kit pretty easily. I bought all my stuff from Jegs.

The new GenV hose assembly is "needed" to install this new intake. You could put one together yourself, but it is nice how the pre-made hose attaches and snaps in secure to the bottom of the new intake. You pull the old one off at the PCV valve, use the hard tubing portion of that one, and cut the new hose off and simply fit it over hard pipe on the old PCV section. Really simple. I left it to do last, got the hoses and fittings where they would stay, eyeballed it, and cut the new hose with a knife and slipped onto the old fitting and then put a zip tie on it.


2668

[Dustin]

What was he able to mess with?

He had the car for 2 weeks, they were making progress and got all the information that they needed. I sold him my stock computer and last I talked to him they were working on it. Hopefully soon guys.

[Shooter]

He had the car for 2 weeks, they were making progress and got all the information that they needed. I sold him my stock computer and last I talked to him they were working on it. Hopefully soon guys.

I am really looking forward to this.

[FrgMstr]

30 more miles on the car with some fairly hard driving. No issues whatsoever, ran incredibly well. Pulling like a freight train.

[DreadLox]

30 more miles on the car with some fairly hard driving. No issues whatsoever, ran incredibly well. Pulling like a freight train.

Awesome, so you guys are obviously noticing a difference. I may order the ACR-X oil catch can. Glad to hear things are going well. The install/swap seems pretty straight forward. Other than the time consuming portion of cutting the torque limiters.

[FLATOUT]

30 more miles on the car with some fairly hard driving. No issues whatsoever, ran incredibly well. Pulling like a freight train.

Bad Ass man, I knew I wasn't crazy lol :D Pics up a great deal through the meat of the power band. Anyone that focuses on peak numbers with this setup is missing the point.

[FrgMstr]

One thing I will say that surprised me. I torqued all the bolts to 106 inch pounds. Went back after install and re-torqued to 106 inch pounds. Took the car for the first drive of about 10 miles. Brought it home and let it sit till morning. Going out this morning I re-torqued the manifold bolts again. The bolts took almost a FULL TURN to get back to 106. Given this is not an aluminum part I guess this is to be expected, but it still surprised me that a heat cycle had that much impact on the mating material. So a word to the wise. Make SURE you re-torque your bolts after you heat cycle the manifold for the first time. Given that I am not sure I would suggest going out to make a long drive far from home on your first outing. I am going to check the torque again in the morning.

[FLATOUT]

I noticed this as well and I continued to check the torque of all of them until they all "settled". This took a few heat cylces as well.


One thing I will say that surprised me. I torqued all the bolts to 106 inch pounds. Went back after install and re-torqued to 106 inch pounds. Took the car for the first drive of about 10 miles. Brought it home and let it sit till morning. Going out this morning I re-torqued the manifold bolts again. The bolts took almost a FULL TURN to get back to 106. Given this is not an aluminum part I guess this is to be expected, but it still surprised me that a heat cycle had that much impact on the mating material. So a word to the wise. Make SURE you re-torque your bolts after you heat cycle the manifold for the first time. Given that I am not sure I would suggest going out to make a long drive far from home on your first outing. I am going to check the torque again in the morning.

[DreadLox]

One thing I will say that surprised me. I torqued all the bolts to 106 inch pounds. Went back after install and re-torqued to 106 inch pounds. Took the car for the first drive of about 10 miles. Brought it home and let it sit till morning. Going out this morning I re-torqued the manifold bolts again. The bolts took almost a FULL TURN to get back to 106. Given this is not an aluminum part I guess this is to be expected, but it still surprised me that a heat cycle had that much impact on the mating material. So a word to the wise. Make SURE you re-torque your bolts after you heat cycle the manifold for the first time. Given that I am not sure I would suggest going out to make a long drive far from home on your first outing. I am going to check the torque again in the morning.

Hmmm... Where I'm headed to do my swap is about an hour drive.... I'd assume that would be ok as long as I check the torque as soon as I get home, worse case I could make a pit stop on the way. I'm glad you guys said something about this.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Curious if the compression limiters extending beyond the manifold on the gen V would help alleviate this torque issue? Perhaps this is another function they serve?

[Back In Black]

Curious if the compression limiters extending beyond the manifold on the gen V would help alleviate this torque issue? Perhaps this is another function they serve?

I was thinking the same thing. Kinda like the crush sleeve on a pinion gear.

[FrgMstr]

Hmmm... Where I'm headed to do my swap is about an hour drive.... I'd assume that would be ok as long as I check the torque as soon as I get home, worse case I could make a pit stop on the way. I'm glad you guys said something about this.

I would suggest you would be just fine. Long as you are not going hog wild on it.


Curious if the compression limiters extending beyond the manifold on the gen V would help alleviate this torque issue? Perhaps this is another function they serve?


I was thinking the same thing. Kinda like the crush sleeve on a pinion gear.

I am not so sure that these are not a sort of crush sleeve as I said a page or two back. I hand cut and trimmed mine at the same angle as the manifold facing. Probably about .25mm below the facing. I am going to re-torque in the morning and see how much thread these take again. Would be interesting to know exactly what the intake is made of and at what specification. I got the light out and looked for any cracking, and all was well. Certainly cracking around the attach points is what I am concerned with. I feel like I may have not wasted my time doing all that now.

I don't think it is anything to really worry about, since when you heat cycle a plastic you are going to get some extrusion happening. As FLATOUT said above, his finally "settled out" which makes sense. But it did surprise me when I re-torqued the first bolt and got nearly a full turn. It made me second guess at first if I had torqued that one properly. Just something to be aware of and know that follow-up, follow-up, and more follow-up is required if you do it yourself.

No leaks though and just drove it another 10 miles, all good.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

For sure a machined hole to receive the compression limiter would serve to keep everything aligned laterally as well as prevent crushing the intake and perhaps serve as a crush sleeve. The angled compression limiter as you have done FrgMstr would probably still allow everything to move and adjust slightly during heat cycles just because it isn’t necessarily holding anything in place laterally. Probably a combination of all of these things adds up to require the bolts to be tightened a few times as everything settles.

Too bad it is somewhat scary to machine the heads, especially while they are on the car, that would make the install a lot easier.

[IndyRon]

I'd be curious if the bolts backed out with the heat cycling or the intake just slightly deformed with the torque of the fasteners plus the heat.

[FLATOUT]

I'd be curious if the bolts backed out with the heat cycling or the intake just slightly deformed with the torque of the fasteners plus the heat.

I would be interested in adding a small washer to distribute the clamping force over a slightly larger area. Also would a small dab of locktite be helpful to keep anything from backing out?

[FrgMstr]

I would be interested in adding a small washer to distribute the clamping force over a slightly larger area. Also would a small dab of locktite be helpful to keep anything from backing out?


There was some blue material on the threads of my bolts. Not sure if anti-seize or thread locker. I don't think those backed out. I will put some marks on those with a sharpie tomorrow to see.

[Back In Black]

I would be interested in adding a small washer to distribute the clamping force over a slightly larger area. Also would a small dab of locktite be helpful to keep anything from backing out?

That or a star type lock washer. The next person to do this swap should mark the bolts if possible to see if they are indeed backing out.

Does anyone know if those "torque limiters" are a non-reusable part? Anyone have a service manual for a Gen V yet? If the manual says they need to be replaced if the manifold is removed then I think it's safe to assume they get crushed during install. They should be a torque and forget fastener.

EDIT: Just read FrgMstr's post. That blue material is indeed a thread locker. So all the manifold bolts had that on them?

[FLATOUT]

Yes they all have the blue thread locker on them.


That or a star type lock washer. The next person to do this swap should mark the bolts if possible to see if they are indeed backing out.

Does anyone know if those "torque limiters" are a non-reusable part? Anyone have a service manual for a Gen V yet? If the manual says they need to be replaced if the manifold is removed then I think it's safe to assume they get crushed during install. They should be a torque and forget fastener.

EDIT: Just read FrgMstr's post. That blue material is indeed a thread locker. So all the manifold bolts had that on them?

[Chorps]

I wonder if it's possible to make custom composite intake manifolds for Gen IVs and Vs.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/features/3d-printing-at-the-cutting-edge-of-racing/

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I wonder if it's possible to make custom composite intake manifolds for Gen IVs and Vs.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/features/3d-printing-at-the-cutting-edge-of-racing/

It would be possible but I suspect the R&D to get better performance would be staggering - CFD would be required. The cost of production would not be cheap either - you may be looking at a $2-$5000+ part depending on the material for a 3D printed (price is by material volume).

[Victxv10]

Is the new GenV intake a two piece like the GenIV or is it fused together into one. Just wondering what it looks like inside.

[Steve M]

Is the new GenV intake a two piece like the GenIV or is it fused together into one. Just wondering what it looks like inside.

Pretty sure it is all one piece.

[ACRucrazy]

It's fused together into 1, it can't be taken apart. The runners are longer than the G4.

[Steve M]

It's fused together into 1, it can't be taken apart. The runners are longer than the G4.

Has anyone measured both? You can tell from pics that they are longer, but how much longer?

[ACRucrazy]

I will see if I can get measurements tonight.

[FrgMstr]

Got 110 miles on the GenV intake without a single issue. There is no doubt in mind that the car is pulling better. I have an appointment to put it on the dyno tomorrow at 5pm. So I will have a solid before and after comparison on the GenV intake vs. Gen IV intake, both with Mopar PCM.

The bolts did not move at all today after about 40 miles on it during the drive. I did NOT re-torque these today. I am going to leave them as is. I do not want to over-torque these and cause issues. That said, I am going to keep an eye on these.

[IndyRon]

Is the new GenV intake a two piece like the GenIV or is it fused together into one. Just wondering what it looks like inside.

As said above, it is a fused 1 piece unit. I was hoping 2 piece prior to purchasing one and was planning on having it sent out to Mamo at FAST for port work as he is the best in the business in porting composite intakes for LSX cars but unfortunately that isn't going to be possible.