BBG Header Install

[IndyRon]

I'm getting ready to get started on this within the next 7-10 days. I finally got my PCM issues ironed out which ended up being an incomplete learn during the driving cycles after the initial install as well as a faulty plugwire present at the same time.

Below is a mockup of the headers and Corsa that will be going on the car. These headers are the new 1 7/8" primary "shorties" that are sold by BBG but are actually longer primaries than any other header on the market for these cars currently. They are called shorties only because he has a set for racing/aftermarket PCM cars that have even longer primaries. The setup is completely modular and I can change primary length and collectors if necessary depending on my application without removing the primaries bolted to the heads. I sent mine out for jet hot coating since my car is primarily a streetcar and I wanted as much thermal reduction underhood as possible. Here is the initial pics of the setup going on. I'll update this thread throughout the install process as well and will have back to back dyno graphs to show the gains achieved.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/221B9E7B-D0F0-4602-95BC-0221700FB4A9_zpsumrsxn7t.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/221B9E7B-D0F0-4602-95BC-0221700FB4A9_zpsumrsxn7t.jpg.html)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/EE81B5FC-9B92-4DE5-A479-D20DF5FE3AB8_zpscrvytnfv.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/EE81B5FC-9B92-4DE5-A479-D20DF5FE3AB8_zpscrvytnfv.jpg.html)

[01sapphirebob]

Those look great!!!

[Steve M]

That's gonna be LOUD...I'd love to get a chance to hear this setup in person. Can't wait to see some dyno results as well!

[ACRucrazy]

Totally forgot you were dealin with PCM issues. Glad it got straightened out, I was assuming it was a learning issue. Headers look bitchen!

[FrgMstr]

I wish you would have warned us that there was pornography in this thread.

[Revolution]

Looks killer Ron!

[AbsolutHank]

Looks great Ron!!

As much as I love your car, I may lust for your garage even more!

[Murpowa]

Good stuff!

[blk_fxstc]

Murpowa - you have a PM

[v10CodeMonkey]

Those look awesome. Looking forward to seeing the real-world gains on these headers and to see (and hear) a video of these once installed!

[PaulP]

Ya we need more garage pics, very nice setup

[09redviper]

Which corsa cat back you have, 2" or 3"?

[Vipes]

Is that your garage? Wow, very impressive! The car also. :)

[pony23]

Those look awesome.

[gerch85]

awsome set up

[IndyRon]

Thanks All. I'm going to be running the Corsa 3" inlet system. I'll start without cats and depending on loudness and smell, I may install some high flow cats after the collector. Heading out of town tomorrow morning but plan to start the install next weekend.

[Steve-Indy]

Update ???

[IndyRon]

Update ???

Hey Steve, On my way back to Naptown from Vacay. I'll be starting on the install tomorrow.

[IndyRon]

Ok all. Got the car up on the lift and starting on the disassembly now. Got the side sills off, tips off, and will be pulling the factory manifolds off tomorrow. Stay tuned!

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/9072CDC7-3EBA-4081-8479-8B44661089D9_zpsnegv5szt.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/9072CDC7-3EBA-4081-8479-8B44661089D9_zpsnegv5szt.jpg.html)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/00258D3C-1C87-47D7-914D-B7BE930CBE6E_zpskeu81yjx.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/00258D3C-1C87-47D7-914D-B7BE930CBE6E_zpskeu81yjx.jpg.html)

[AbsolutHank]

I see who won the SSG Gas Pump ;)

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Thanks for the updates Ron, looking forward to the install. Awesome garage!

[Sybil TF]

Nice lift!

[IndyRon]

Made some progress on the new BBG headers. I have to say Toddy did an amazing job on the layout of these things. 1 7/8" headers aren't small, especially with these having longer primaries than any other header on the market currently. They do occupy a lot of space. I had zero issues with contact with any part of the engine compartment, frame, or accessories. There is at least 3/4" clearance or more everywhere. Since they are modular, I just dropped them in starting from the rear and working forward 2 primaries/2primaries/1primary. Then attached the primary extensions and merge collector. I DID NOT have to remove the front crossbrace to get the driver side manifold out or the headers in. I think I may have to for the passenger side though. Below is a few pics of the progress.

Out with the old.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/74CBB7F6-C1EB-4791-A973-CA1E65DE979B_zpstcyrrzhd.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/74CBB7F6-C1EB-4791-A973-CA1E65DE979B_zpstcyrrzhd.jpg.html)

The paperweight that was removed.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/6790836B-98A9-4806-A70B-5F5242F33B04_zpsdaqfm10k.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/6790836B-98A9-4806-A70B-5F5242F33B04_zpsdaqfm10k.jpg.html)

Fitment prior to torquing everything down.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/F14DA247-6A2A-4BD3-A70C-BB3C295CB4B2_zps7zj7fiii.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/F14DA247-6A2A-4BD3-A70C-BB3C295CB4B2_zps7zj7fiii.jpg.html)

Underside pic of collector and primary extensions.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/E9B6FCD2-BA05-4C84-819F-F6EB7486C8A2_zpsbwb1qnvn.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/E9B6FCD2-BA05-4C84-819F-F6EB7486C8A2_zpsbwb1qnvn.jpg.html)

Pic from underneath showing clearances and coating.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/383AC473-7F0C-49A1-AD43-CFF8E2467696_zpsy9fnqie4.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/383AC473-7F0C-49A1-AD43-CFF8E2467696_zpsy9fnqie4.jpg.html)

[FrgMstr]

Can't wait to hear those and see what power those make! Looking friggin awesome.

[IndyRon]

Driver side finished up with massive Taylor Thundervolt wires.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/DFFEFF51-FF51-43D5-8C7F-AAB902A143BD_zpspkskisvw.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/DFFEFF51-FF51-43D5-8C7F-AAB902A143BD_zpspkskisvw.jpg.html)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/054861E5-515E-4B55-9C89-7094117E9E6D_zpseqdszydx.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/054861E5-515E-4B55-9C89-7094117E9E6D_zpseqdszydx.jpg.html)

[Revolution]

Looking good hope to get mine together this week to Ron :O

[IndyRon]

Made some more progress on the PS headers. This side was much tighter than the DS and required removing the front crossmember, airbox for HVAC and 1/3 of the windshield cowl. Then I had to jack up the motor to get the large primaries to fit. Once in place, the passenger side was much like the driver side. Clearance was excellent, at least 3/4" at the closest point. I'm currently waiting on a couple parts but hope to have this wrapped up sometime this week. Corsa should be going on soon once I get the turnouts cut to size.

Old stuff coming out.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/DA9B2D8B-91EF-4F75-AEEF-3C31381A470B_zpszae5c7o5.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/DA9B2D8B-91EF-4F75-AEEF-3C31381A470B_zpszae5c7o5.jpg.html)

Had to wrestle the factory manifold out and tilt the motor and jack it up a bit.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/C0875F4B-EBC8-4105-814F-5DFCF5560321_zps88ujvqyl.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/C0875F4B-EBC8-4105-814F-5DFCF5560321_zps88ujvqyl.jpg.html)

No problems once the upper primaries were in place.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/1F1D8965-89D8-433D-AAB4-3C83A8BBB6A7_zps5rkhzuin.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/1F1D8965-89D8-433D-AAB4-3C83A8BBB6A7_zps5rkhzuin.jpg.html)

Collector view, 5 into 1.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/0AB84C5A-3DA3-4123-AC75-21796BA886EA_zpsr8kcjoor.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/0AB84C5A-3DA3-4123-AC75-21796BA886EA_zpsr8kcjoor.jpg.html)

Finishing the PS.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/A278D5FB-49A4-456D-8C8A-8268539815D5_zpsuwz8wgci.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/A278D5FB-49A4-456D-8C8A-8268539815D5_zpsuwz8wgci.jpg.html)

Closeup showing primaries.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/B8DCB6CA-66C1-4869-8031-D94937590A31_zpsbk6ak8wa.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/B8DCB6CA-66C1-4869-8031-D94937590A31_zpsbk6ak8wa.jpg.html)

Pic of the old stuff that came out.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/67A350AB-82F1-43CA-89C0-B2CD6400A90E_zpsgtvia07p.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/67A350AB-82F1-43CA-89C0-B2CD6400A90E_zpsgtvia07p.jpg.html)

Just a random pic with the honeycomb vents removed. I like the look. The car looks more functional, like a true racecar. Not to mention this is supposed to increase air extraction from underhood and help with front downforce according to interwebz lore. :)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/E196A989-CC10-46C1-B790-40B00E25780C_zpsco9m9fdv.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/E196A989-CC10-46C1-B790-40B00E25780C_zpsco9m9fdv.jpg.html)

[FrgMstr]

I love the sans grill look. Had it on my Gen III, been thinking about it on the current car. I think it especially looks awesome with that paint scheme.

[IndyRon]

I love the sans grill look. Had it on my Gen III, been thinking about it on the current car. I think it especially looks awesome with that paint scheme.

Thanks, I'm digging it too. Not to mention I can check the oil and adjust my Moton's without even popping the hood.

Dude, love the avatar! PM me that pic in high res if you have one.

[FrgMstr]

Thanks, I'm digging it too. Not to mention I can check the oil and adjust my Moton's without even popping the hood.

Dude, love the avatar! PM me that pic in high res if you have one.

Pic is here.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/onceinalivetime/13955715764/

You can click the three little dots on the right menu and dl whatever size you want up to original.

[Vipes]

Looking good! Let me know if you need any help wrenching, I'm just a few minutes away.

[IndyRon]

Looking good! Let me know if you need any help wrenching, I'm just a few minutes away.

Thanks for the offer! I'm actually about done now. Got the DS turnouts and Corsa mounted and just have to do the passenger side then its just going over everything once more and making sure I don't have any spare parts. I'll be heading to the dyno next week if you are interested. It's just south of the airport.

[GreenVenom]

Very nice Ron!! No grills on the ACRx. So the race car connection is true. 4911 actual ACRx photo

[Vipes]

Thanks for the offer! I'm actually about done now. Got the DS turnouts and Corsa mounted and just have to do the passenger side then its just going over everything once more and making sure I don't have any spare parts. I'll be heading to the dyno next week if you are interested. It's just south of the airport.

Great, that is going to sound mean!! PM sent.

[ACRucrazy]

I hope you put down some great numbers. Been looking forward to your install.

[IndyRon]

Very nice Ron!! No grills on the ACRx. So the race car connection is true. 4911 actual ACRx photo

Thanks for the link..l wasn't aware of that.


Great, that is going to sound mean!! PM sent.

Didn't receive your PM. If you are on the south side also, we need to get a subgroup of folks together for a cookout or cruise and to grab a bite. The weather is too nice.

[Vipes]

Didn't receive your PM. If you are on the south side also, we need to get a subgroup of folks together for a cookout or cruise and to grab a bite. The weather is too nice.

That's a great idea, count me in! I'm on the southwest side, a few minutes from the airport.

-Troy

[IndyRon]

New Update!
I fired the car for the first time last night. Heat cycled the headers 3x and retorqued. The car fired up first time with no CEL's and no issues. The thing sounds mean!!! I went from the stock manifolds and 4 cats with no mufflers to the 1 7/8" BBG headers with 3" turnouts and corsa 3" track exhaust. The exhaust note is totally different. At idle before, it was much deeper and "rumbly". Now it is higher pitched and more "crackly" and sharp. I drove the car today for the first time and MAN! The car would never get traction in 1st even from a roll on Invo's. Now, in 2nd at ~3500rpm at 50mph, if you stab the gas, it spins all the way through 2nd and the rear end steps out. The powerband feels fatter all the way through, but expecially above 4k rpm to redline. The motor feels like it wants to keep pulling past 6400rpm.

The exhaust when at cruising speed in upper gears below 2k rpm, believe it or not, is actually slightly quieter with less drone than what I had before and I would say that believe it or not, the car is much better suited to a road trip than it was before...and this is without cats! Now, when you romp on it, it sounds like all hell is breaking lose and has a high pitched sharp exotic sound to it that is much louder than previously. Overall, I love it. At idle (to me) the motor sounds a little more like a tractor and less like a BBC which I don't like, but all other aspects of driving and cruising and at different RPM's I like it more.

Below are a few more pics of me finishing things up. I tried to get on the dyno today, but it was booked, so it will likely have to wait until early next week unfortunately. I'm still ridin' dirty with my side sills off around town and have gotten more than 1 funny looks at intersections, hah!

I can't say enough about Toddy and Bad Boyz Garage regarding this project. He made himself available to me at just about all hours and would call periodically to check in to see how the install was going and to give me a few pointers on things that would make it easier. As a vendor, he's gone above and beyond the call of duty and will bend over backwards to help you out. That is really unique and rare in this industry and when dealing with businesses in general. Not to mention, his product was beautiful from a finish as well as fitment standpoint. I didn't have to tweak anything and clearances were all perfect throughout.

Cut down the turnout to get the tip centered in the opening
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/78897754-837B-415D-A660-A9F41165DC05_zpsbyeib4la.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/78897754-837B-415D-A660-A9F41165DC05_zpsbyeib4la.jpg.html)

Had the turnouts coated also. With the cats removed and the coated turnouts, there is actually much less radiant heat coming through the floorboards and sills which is a plus compared to before.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/25DBFF86-F448-4934-8C79-9195B3939F7D_zpstci7rebp.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/25DBFF86-F448-4934-8C79-9195B3939F7D_zpstci7rebp.jpg.html)
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/F5BE52E2-AEED-4256-8F54-EEDB8BF2A581_zpsvyhuxaqm.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/F5BE52E2-AEED-4256-8F54-EEDB8BF2A581_zpsvyhuxaqm.jpg.html)

Everything buttoned up.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/FF1F656C-F0B2-4801-B379-18C0C0637BF8_zpsrkrkeawb.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/FF1F656C-F0B2-4801-B379-18C0C0637BF8_zpsrkrkeawb.jpg.html)

[v10CodeMonkey]

Toddy is great, when I was putting on my ACR-X headers, he answered whenever I called and even called me in the evening to see how my install was going and I didn't even buy them from him (they were used). Top notch vender IMO. Would love to hear a sound clip of these headers. I, too, prefer the more exotic pitch to the lower rumble - my ACR-X headers have a higher, racier sound and I love it!

[Vipes]

Looks perfect, can't wait to hear it in person!!

[IndyRon]

I tried to load a video clip with it running to get an idea of sound at idle but photobucket puked so I'll have to try again. It's hard to capture sound on video which means us Indy folks will have to take a cruise sometime soon!

[mjorgensen]

Very nice work and yes Toddy builds some wonderful pieces, I'm sure we will also be offering his headers when he gets rolling. Nice work to you and to Toddy.

[Revolution]

In the same boat can't get a decent sound clip :(

[Steve-Indy]

IndyRon, bring it to C&C tomorrow so that we can all hear it !!

Maybe, you can drag LunchBox out as well. :)

[IndyRon]

IndyRon, bring it to C&C tomorrow so that we can all hear it !!

Maybe, you can drag LunchBox out as well. :)

I just might do that depending on weather.

[Steve-Indy]

Thanks for coming, Ron...headers sound great, look great !!

[IndyRon]

Ok, had a chance to run the car on the dyno today. All runs were back to back with no cool down and no shut down between runs. I only have one graph with me but you can see the comparison. The headers graph was actually the 6th pull that I did back to back as the car kept gaining a couple hp each pull.

The lowest number is with the car completely stock except mufflers removed. The middle graph is with the Mopar PCM, UD pulley, and Gen 5 intake. The top graph is with BBG 1 7/8"headers, no cats, corsa 3"exhaust. All runs were on 93 octane. Seat of the pants confirms the gains above 4k rpms.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/rpinieck/338D782B-0BE5-4309-830C-B28C0356D01A_zpskatkurul.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/rpinieck/media/338D782B-0BE5-4309-830C-B28C0356D01A_zpskatkurul.jpg.html)

The car leaned out nicely with the new headers. Peak gains were 40rwhp/39rwtq from factory manifolds, cats, and no mufflers.

[ACRucrazy]

So headers and exhaust were worth 40/40 over previous mods.

[IndyRon]

So headers and exhaust were worth 40/40 over previous mods.

Yep. Headers only 40/39 and stock (minus mufflers) to current 53/59. I'm going to try and hit the track this Wednesday if it doesn't rain to get some trap speeds out of the car. I'd like to see low 130's with aero on the car. That will be the real test. Stay tuned.

[ACRucrazy]

Yep. I'm going to try and hit the track this Wednesday if it doesn't rain to get some trap speeds out of the car. I'd like to see low 130's with aero on the car. That will be the real test. Stay tuned.

:t89039:

[Vipes]

Wow, congrats! Impressive numbers!!

[St.Char]

Build looks great Ron, I know it has to sound awesome, looking forward to hearing it soon. Nicely done!

[Steve M]

I went back and re-read this thread here:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/2173-BBG-VS-Belanger-Headers

Where you said this:


I totally get what you are saying and while I have a set of the new BBG headers on order, I also agree with you. When Toddy ran the shorter version of this new header on the dyno, they made huge gains across the powerband with a peak of +85hp and +80tq on the engine dyno....stock motor, only headers added. This was the main reason I bought them, I don't want to leave a single HP on the table with all the boltons and I'm expecting the headers alone to make +60rwhp/tq, maybe a bit more. I don't really care about subjective sound opinions, these cars always sound kinda weird anyway without a cool exhaust note like a V12 ferrari or 302 mustang....so power is the only motivation for me.

Given that you didn't hit your goal of +60rwhp/tq, are you still happy that you went this route?

[IndyRon]

I went back and re-read this thread here:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/2173-BBG-VS-Belanger-Headers

Where you said this:



Given that you didn't hit your goal of +60rwhp/tq, are you still happy that you went this route?

Steve,
That was my goal. I really wanted to see the +60rwhp. Am I a little bit disappointed? Sure. Who doesn't want more power? Do I wish that I had a different header on the car? Nope. I fully understood and accepted the fact that being the first to test/run these headers (or any newly designed part), that there is some risk associated with that. I still feel that these are the nicest headers on the market for these cars and fitment was perfect. BBG really did their homework on the fixtures. These are also the only header that is adjustable with different primary lengths, collector designs that allows for optimization of modified motors. My headers were the same length primaries, orientation, and diameter as the prototypes.

My only interpretation of the results is that for a stock motor, there just isn't much more power to be had regardless of header design improvements. This was also shown in FLATOUT's dyno of the M&M 1 7/8" headers. His car maybe picked up a few hp (less than 10) above 5k rpm so now 2 different sets of larger primary headers from 2 different manufacturers have shown that really 1 3/4" is all you need for a stock motor. So, if someone was making more gains with another brand, I suppose I would be upset. :)

The price premium for me was worth it for the improvement in fitment, quality, and coating and will definitely be worth it for those looking to really push the 8.4L motor further than I plan to. I really wanted to see 620 on the dyno SAE but that's just a pride number. I'll take my 600.6 SAE and have fun with it.

[viper04]

Ron
Nice write up, thanks for posting the info good luck at the track..

[victoryman100]

5073
Thanks for the link..l wasn't aware of that.



Didn't receive your PM. If you are on the south side also, we need to get a subgroup of folks together for a cookout or cruise and to grab a bite. The weather is too nice.
Hey Ron, a southside cook out and cruise... I am game for that..But don't tell that green venom guy, He will eat all of the food! :) And yes OPEN hood exhausters Is the coolest! :dude3:

[GreenVenom]

Great ideas for a get together!!
By the way, the only reason victoryman doesn't have his hood vents in is because they fell out after he used Elmer's wood glue to put em in the first time. :p

[Revolution]

Great write up and don't get hung up on dyno numbers besides tuning that's all a dyno number is good for!

[IndyRon]

Ron
Nice write up, thanks for posting the info good luck at the track..

Absolutely. Thanks and I'll keep everyone posted on results.



Hey Ron, a southside cook out and cruise... I am game for that..But don't tell that green venom guy, He will eat all of the food! :) And yes OPEN hood exhausters Is the coolest! :dude3:

Cool, will plan something maybe in the next 2-3wks.


Great write up and don't get hung up on dyno numbers besides tuning that's all a dyno number is good for!

Thanks man. Absolutely true. Have you had a chance to get yours installed? Impressions?

[Revolution]

I'm hoping to be back in town this week and get it done the headers are in just need to build the exhaust.

[extremneon]

Headers look awesome, great write up and install!

Best way to look at ordering these for my Viper?

[IndyRon]

Headers look awesome, great write up and install!

Best way to look at ordering these for my Viper?

Easiest way is to call up Toddy at Bad Boyz Garage. He is a sponsor on here. He will take care of you.

[extremneon]

Easiest way is to call up Toddy at Bad Boyz Garage. He is a sponsor on here. He will take care of you.

Awesome, thanks!!