Gen V's at NARRA (Viper Days)

[Russ Oasis]

Let's see some Gen V snakes at the NARRA events. Where are you guys? Play among other Vipers. Check is out at www.narraonline.com.

[VENOM V]

Let's see some Gen V snakes at the NARRA events. Where are you guys? Play among other Vipers. Check is out at www.narraonline.com.

Russ, hard for me to find anything on which tracks they have Viper races. The only track that's close enough for us Left-coasters is Sonoma, but as far as I can tell, that's only open to Radicals. Is that correct?

[FLATOUT]

I didn't notice any Texas World Speedway either.

[FrankBarba]

I'd love to race, but at the current entry level cost without a financial payout is just not
worth it to me any more. I'm tired of spending over 300K a year to race without any return.

[Russ Oasis]

Russ, hard for me to find anything on which tracks they have Viper races. The only track that's close enough for us Left-coasters is Sonoma, but as far as I can tell, that's only open to Radicals. Is that correct?

The tracks that NARRA (Viper Days) is going to this year are some of the greatest tracks in the world. It's true, the bulk of them are central to east in the country. Most of the participants come from that area. I, too, love the west coast tracks but we had trouble getting enough cars to make it worth it. We're going to Watkins Glen in May, VIR in June, Pitt in August, Monticello (NY) in Sept and Sebring in Nov. They are great tracks and we should have some Gev V's out there (or IV's and III's). The series is better than ever.

[Russ Oasis]

I'd love to race, but at the current entry level cost without a financial payout is just not
worth it to me any more. I'm tired of spending over 300K a year to race without any return.

WOW Frank, are you buying gold plated parts? I've never spent anything close to that. It's true, there's not a "return," but we're racing for fun. We're not pros. Come on back.

[VENOM V]

The tracks that NARRA (Viper Days) is going to this year are some of the greatest tracks in the world. It's true, the bulk of them are central to east in the country. Most of the participants come from that area. I, too, love the west coast tracks but we had trouble getting enough cars to make it worth it. We're going to Watkins Glen in May, VIR in June, Pitt in August, Monticello (NY) in Sept and Sebring in Nov. They are great tracks and we should have some Gev V's out there (or IV's and III's). The series is better than ever.

There are a growing number of track rats here in N. CA, and a bunch in S. CA as you probably know that have Viper race cars. It would be awesome if NARRA would come to Laguna Seca next year! Put in a good word for us out on the West Coast, will you please?

[Russ Oasis]

Venom V, I passed your thoughts along to the powers that be. Come play with us.....we've got some unbelievable tracks upcoming. VIR, Monticello, Sebring.

[Shooter]

NARRA is getting too expensive for the HPDE events now. I think it worked out to about $550 + the 200% markup they have on the garage spaces when I went 2 years ago. Thats for roughly 3 1/2 hrs track time over 2 days. This year I had planned on stepping up to the Time Trials class with my ACR , and see if I liked that level of competition, but now there are no events in Texas. Seems to me, they are getting a little too full of themselves with all the other events they are pimpiing. Was a big hoopla last year in regards to holding an event at CoTA but seems like that fell by the wayside too.

[Russ Oasis]

Shooter, honestly, I don't know why you say that NARRA is getting too big for their bridges. NARRA loses money on most events, which is why they have to have other series fill in some time slots on the track (like the Aston Martin series). I'm not aware of extreme garage space markup as it's pretty cheap. At Watkins Glen, a garage space is $200 for the entire weekend ($66 a day). If the difference between running with your brother Vipers or racing with a discount series amounts to one or two hundred dollars more for an entire weekend, racing might not be the most economical sport to get involved with. It cost a lot to track a car (because it's worth it). For me, I like knowing that NARRA is a Viper series and that I'm with fellow Viper brothers, even if it's an extra buck. Give it a try again.

[WetOne]

I looked over the NARRA website, not that easy to navigate for answers for the uninvolved. What would it minimally take to get you and your car on the track to compete?


Let's see some Gen V snakes at the NARRA events. Where are you guys? Play among other Vipers. Check is out at www.narraonline.com.

[Joel]

NARRA is not the NARRA of the past - and that's good and bad. Jim Stout and his crew have done a nice job of remaking NARRA so that you can see first class racing - classes from F1600, 2000, Atlantic, GT 1, 2, 3, Radicals, and time trials (TT). There was no HPDE at Road Atlanta because the race schedule was full. HPDE has been pushed out largely because the tracks cost so much to rent. I was disappointed not to be able to run my cars but the racing was first class. We also got plenty of parade lap time and I probably ran 25-30 laps around Road Atlanta with the top down and enjoying the track at a brisk pace - something I can't do while racing at Road Atlanta.

If you want to run your car in HPDE, then try NASA or the new classes in SCCA. There are also plenty of private companies (Chen Motorsports for ex.) or groups that rent tracks and provide instruction and time on tracks. You can get an instructor and have fun learning the limits. Then, if you feel frisky, you can enter a TT event. What we lost with NARRA was HPDE, what we gained was an outstanding racing schedule. Jim and Kathy Stout, Aaron Hmel, Tom Drewer, and the rest of the NARRA staff made every effort to contact the Georgia and AL/TN Clubs and make us feel welcome. Hard to do better than that.

[Russ Oasis]

Joel, You're right. HPDE has taken a back seat to some of the other classes, but you can see why on these boards. Some folks are concerned with an extra $100 for an entire weekend. It's really hard to pay the bills with HPDE participants who are so price sensitive. It's near impossible to provide instructors, abundant track time at world class tracks and cheap entry fees. NARRA is planning on having some HPDE at some point this year when the schedule allows. If you have completed driver education and you feel you are ready to enter time trials, there is the TT division. It's timed, and there is point-by passing. A lot of the people on these boards would do great in that division. My main point is that NARRA is the old Viper Days and I'd love to see more snakes on the track.

[RedTanRT/10]

Russ, seems like the last time we traded notes we argued. NARRA left the west coast and we can both argue how Spring Mountain was handled, the selection of Chuck Walla then going to the middle of nowhere AZ. HPDE was the core of viper days, now it isn't. I'm sure the finances are tough to run an event, I have no idea how the math works. I paid and particiapted in the first three NARRA events here but you lost me and alot of others when you guys selected the AZ track.

For me and a bunch of the guys here in SoCal we run like Joel says above with other groups, Speed Ventures runs out here almost weekly. The problem is, what about the first time folks that Skip and Viper Days catered to? That is a huge void and we see it with new members out here. Hoping you can get to the West and focus more on HPDE and first time owners. In the meantime SoCal is creating an event to replicate the old days and capture the novice drivers. Great opportunity for NARRA to in other places.

[Shooter]

Shooter, honestly, I don't know why you say that NARRA is getting too big for their bridges. NARRA loses money on most events, which is why they have to have other series fill in some time slots on the track (like the Aston Martin series). I'm not aware of extreme garage space markup as it's pretty cheap. At Watkins Glen, a garage space is $200 for the entire weekend ($66 a day). If the difference between running with your brother Vipers or racing with a discount series amounts to one or two hundred dollars more for an entire weekend, racing might not be the most economical sport to get involved with. It cost a lot to track a car (because it's worth it). For me, I like knowing that NARRA is a Viper series and that I'm with fellow Viper brothers, even if it's an extra buck. Give it a try again.

It's too expensive for the 1st timer's. You know, the people that want to learn how to handle their cars. That's what I am talking about. And as was mentioned, NARRA doesn't even really care about the HPDE's anyways. "Viper days" was for the regular Viper owners. And it's a thing of the past. Now I personally don't care, as I'm more interested in TT anyways, but when friends ask about tracking their Viper's, I just point them to other sanctioned events...you know, the ones that don't make fun of the guy's trying to save a buck.

[Joel]

Shooter

I don't know about saving a buck, but the average weekend, whether SCCA, NASA, or private costs me at least $350-400 to get on the track. That's whether I track my Viper or race my Prelude. If you throw in gas, tires, and motels etc., and maybe HPDE insurance it can run to $700 to $1200 in a hurry. I did really miss HPDE at NARRA but I understand the need to fill venues to pay for track rental but the HPDE with NARRA was $375. So I guess my question for you is "where do you save those bucks?" cause I just can't find it anywhere. My last trip to HPDE with my Viper was $375 for track time, $350 for HPDE insurance, $400 for hotels and food, and about $200 for gas. And I haven't even mentioned tires and brakes... That's pretty pricey but I enjoyed every minute of the 4 hours of track time I got. But I don't consider that a bargain but it is what folks should figure if they want to go play and I just haven't seen it cheaper anywhere by anyone.

[Shooter]

Shooter

I don't know about saving a buck, but the average weekend, whether SCCA, NASA, or private costs me at least $350-400 to get on the track. That's whether I track my Viper or race my Prelude. If you throw in gas, tires, and motels etc., and maybe HPDE insurance it can run to $700 to $1200 in a hurry. I did really miss HPDE at NARRA but I understand the need to fill venues to pay for track rental but the HPDE with NARRA was $375. So I guess my question for you is "where do you save those bucks?" cause I just can't find it anywhere. My last trip to HPDE with my Viper was $375 for track time, $350 for HPDE insurance, $400 for hotels and food, and about $200 for gas. And I haven't even mentioned tires and brakes... That's pretty pricey but I enjoyed every minute of the 4 hours of track time I got. But I don't consider that a bargain but it is what folks should figure if they want to go play and I just haven't seen it cheaper anywhere by anyone.

It's not cheap Joel, I agree. But it's not "Viper days anymore" like they are trying to push. Up until 2012, I used to go all the time. I think my fee with VCA discount was about $425. Not a problem. The garages were $25 a day the last 4 years but now all of a sudden they are $100 a day for the "Viper Days" participants . Still, nobody complained. We're here to have fun. Fun right up to the point where the HPDE guy's lost track time due to the other events going over their allotted times and no attempt was made to refund or even apologize for the lost track time. So I decided to miss the events in 2013, with the intent of running the TT events this year with my ACR. Oops, no events in Texas. Still, not a problem for me, I might travel to one of the tracks I have always wanted to drive. NARRA is putting on some good racing. But calling it "Viper days" is a joke.

[WetOne]

Thank you for the continued open discussion. Never been on a track with a car or part of an auto club before, your exchanges are helpful to navigate through the information.

Track time and that experience was one of my reasons for purchasing my Gen5. My kids are charged about it and I can see a lot of fun ahead with the family.

[Shooter]

Thank you for the continued open discussion. Never been on a track with a car or part of an auto club before, your exchanges are helpful to navigate through the information.

Track time and that experience was one of my reasons for purchasing my Gen5. My kids are charged about it and I can see a lot of fun ahead with the family.

I think you would do better to see what your local Viper club has going on. A lot of clubs put on track days and/or handling clinics and pretty well every club has experienced track guy's that are well versed in our cars and can help a newcomer. Our Houston club has some accomplished road course guy's, and also some impressive 1/4 milers too. I bet your club or one close by has the same. Best way to learn, and the Viper (any Gen imo) is the best car for it.

[Russ Oasis]

For those who don't understand some of the posts above, I'm simply saying that NARRA is the old Viper Days. Has it changed some....yes, it has. The racing side of it is at a much higher level. So are the timed events. That's my only point. I'm not trying to "push" any agenda. I enjoy NARRA and thought that some of you might, also. You don't have to be full out racers to enjoy NARRA. I will again suggest that they go to the West Coast for some events.

[Joel]

Russ I don't think anyone is picking on your posts. I was just trying to explain why NARRA made the changes. Without Jim Stout, whose wife Kathy is now also a part owner of VIR, NARRA would be belly up. I think from a business standpoint, the changes make sense. Do I miss HPDE? Yep, but at $30K and more to rent a track like Road Atlanta for a weekend, I understand it. Would I like more venues? Yes, but as you point out there are plenty. And, finally, I wish it were cheaper. But I wish the Gen V was a convertible and $75K too. Not going to get my wishes either but I would encourage every Viper owner to attend a track day.


For those who don't understand some of the posts above, I'm simply saying that NARRA is the old Viper Days. Has it changed some....yes, it has. The racing side of it is at a much higher level. So are the timed events. That's my only point. I'm not trying to "push" any agenda. I enjoy NARRA and thought that some of you might, also. You don't have to be full out racers to enjoy NARRA. I will again suggest that they go to the West Coast for some events.