Who will have the first Viper with Electric Turbo

[Aevus]

Just got news from Jelke, the guy behind the electric compressor Torqamp

https://torqamp.com/torqamp-kit/

They will launch this summer a bigger unit, suitable for our engine (probably in twin config) and probably in ''lite'' version as well (where you supply your own lithium batts)

I always been very curious about it. Not sure if my new engine, with 10.9:1 compression and big camshaft could handle that thing, but I'd probably be very happy with an extra 80-100 whp for only 7-8k ;)

All that while keeping the N/A sound, lightweight, and instant lag-free throttle...!

[13COBRA]

Never heard of that.

I'd give it a go for $8k if it picked up 100whp

[Aevus]

Never heard of that.

I'd give it a go for $8k if it picked up 100whp


I have no detail yet regarding the bigger compressor kit, but I expect a 8-10 kilowatts electric motor instead of the 5kw, that should run also on 48vdc.
Will sure deliver tons of torque at very low RPM but I'm more interested in peak power...

Price-wise: probably +/- 3,000$ USD per kit ''lite'' so 6k for a twin config + bypass valves + 4x 12vdc lithium batteries in series = 7-8k

[Aevus]

Jelke said we can expect 10-14% extra HP at the wheels with a twin config of the new bigger compressor, so for a 550whp car it's between 55-75whp, a bit less than what I expected but still interesting since you keep all the benefits of N/A

On the other hand, torque curve would be crazy. Maybe a little too much for my 4.10 gears, though!

[13COBRA]

Jelke said we can expect 10-14% extra HP at the wheels with a twin config of the new bigger compressor, so for a 550whp car it's between 55-75whp, a bit less than what I expected but still interesting since you keep all the benefits of N/A

On the other hand, torque curve would be crazy. Maybe a little too much for my 4.10 gears, though!

I might be interested in something like this. Would be solid for road course driving.

I wonder what kind of heat it will put out.

[Aevus]

53083


53084

[Aevus]

I might be interested in something like this. Would be solid for road course driving.

I wonder what kind of heat it will put out.


You'll have to order the Lite kit and supply your own lithium batteries for bigger capacity, to begin with. Also, you might have to manually recharge the batteries between the sessions, unless you have a beefed up alternator. If the electric motors are 8kw, then it's 16kw that are pretty much draining the batteries non-stop during a session.

[13COBRA]

You'll have to order the Lite kit and supply your own lithium batteries for bigger capacity, to begin with. Also, you might have to manually recharge the batteries between the sessions, unless you have a beefed up alternator. If the electric motors are 8kw, then it's 16kw that are pretty much draining the batteries non-stop during a session.

You'd have to charge between runs for sure. I'm not sure you could put an alternator in that would be big/strong enough to keep them charged in short stints like that.

It's an interesting theory!

[Aevus]

we designed the TORQAMP to be a plug and play device which is suitable for almost all cars. Cars in general have an alternator which is able to put out 1.5 kW. This is not enough for TORQAMP compressor motor which is 5 kW. But this is more then enough for the internal charger in the Power Box which is on 500 W.


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If the bigger one is 8kw I assume the Powerbox will be 800 watts, so 2 of 'em is 1600w

I guess it would just be better to disconnect the whole thing for the session and recharge between the runs, since the alternator will suck HPs (not to mention the stress on it)

Their powerbox is perfect for street use though (or drag strip)

[Aevus]

It's an interesting theory!

What would be very interesting is having a Viper parked at a recharge station

:dude3:



53085


Where could we install the CCS plug?

[Aevus]

if you're not familiar with the Torqamp, watch this video:

https://youtu.be/_yrxbcB4CwA?t=838

They sure have fun! ;-)


and a full SEMA presentation by Jelke:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9CnVHRdQI

[ViperGeorge]

You'd have to charge between runs for sure. I'm not sure you could put an alternator in that would be big/strong enough to keep them charged in short stints like that.

It's an interesting theory!

Are the batteries replaceable? In other words, could you buy extra batteries and swap them out between sessions?

[Steve M]

Those results show that this isn't worth spending even a single second of your time (or a single penny of your money) considering it from a performance standpoint. It barely works on a 3.5L engine until 5,000 RPMs, and that engine revs to about 6,800 RPMs (results of a quick Google search). And I shouldn't need to say this but I will anyway: any numbers provided by the manufacturer need to be independently verified.

So this is going to work on an 8.3-8.4L V-10 that revs out beyond 6,000 RPMs?

[Aevus]

Are the batteries replaceable? In other words, could you buy extra batteries and swap them out between sessions?

yes of course, you can series-wired 4x 12vdc lithium and make two battery packs (or more)

[Aevus]

Those results show that this isn't worth spending even a single second of your time (or a single penny of your money) considering it from a performance standpoint. It barely works on a 3.5L engine until 5,000 RPMs, and that engine revs to about 6,800 RPMs (results of a quick Google search). And I shouldn't need to say this but I will anyway: any numbers provided by the manufacturer need to be independently verified.

So this is going to work on an 8.3-8.4L V-10 that revs out beyond 6,000 RPMs?


For a single regular unit without bypass valve, I totally agree it's a complete loss of time and money.

But I was referring to the upcoming new bigger unit (no details as of yet besides 200gr/sec) in a twin parallel config, and a pair of bypass valves obviously.

Most, if not all of them, were tested without the bypass valve so it shows bad on the dyno passed 4-5,000 rpm

[Steve M]

Sounds like you are first in line then.

[Ramtuff]

So, 8k and you’re adding how much weight in wiring and batteries? Where do you plan on putting them? I bet by the time your done you could have had a complete Paxton setup in with less weight, more power and longevity for similar money.

[V10Sidepipes]

How many of us have ever said they wanted more power down low at the expense of power up top?

This might be neat on smaller displacement cars but it looks like they choke out a 3.5L.

So I need 4 of them? Plus the batteries and wiring to hook them up. Plus the fuel system to support them. Plus the tuning solution to tune them. I can only imagine calling up one of the reputable viper tuners and asking if they can tune my quad-electric turbo’d car…

Neat idea but for the money, a Paxton is probably an easier solution and you are well into twin actual turbo money if you have to spend $16k on these to get two (which still woln't flow enough to get out of their own way).

[Aevus]

Uhm. A Paxton supercharger kit is about 15,000$ with installation.
Standard Torqamp Lite kit are about 2,500$ each, shipping from Netherlands included, probably easy enough to install I could do it myself.

A Paxton kit weighs 80 pounds, at the worst possible place...

A Pair of Torqamp compressors weighs about 10 pounds (12-15lbs the new one?), and the Powerboxes + lithium batteries + wires roughly 20-30 extra pounds but positionned in the trunk/lower gravity place.

So basically:

PAXTON = $15k
TORQAMP w/bigger compressor = $7-8k (max)

PAXTON = 130-150 whp (?)
TORQAMP = 70-80 whp (?)

PAXTON = 80 lbs extra weight (poorly distributed)
TORQAMP = 40 lbs extra weight (better distributed)

Last but not least, the Torqamp will (can) deliver massive amount of torque at very low RPM because... well, it's electric.
You can spin the thing 100% while your engine is on idle, if you want. Can't do that with a Paxton, obviously.
Speaking of which, I'd be curious to know how precise the possible adjustments are. Maybe you can fine tune your torque curve as you which, which could be very fun.


Bottomline, on paper it still make sense. Not to mention you can easily remove the Torqamps and put them on any other car if you sell the Viper...

[Aevus]

How many of us have ever said they wanted more power down low at the expense of power up top?

This might be neat on smaller displacement cars but it looks like they choke out a 3.5L.

So I need 4 of them? Plus the batteries and wiring to hook them up. Plus the fuel system to support them. Plus the tuning solution to tune them. I can only imagine calling up one of the reputable viper tuners and asking if they can tune my quad-electric turbo’d car…

Neat idea but for the money, a Paxton is probably an easier solution and you are well into twin actual turbo money if you have to spend $16k on these to get two (which still woln't flow enough to get out of their own way).



Cost and weight are not real issues here, actually the real possible issues are:
Will a pair of the bigger compressors will be enough ? (the kit for sale at the moment is not. Would need 3 or 4.)
...and will it choke the engine at higher RPM, even with a pair of bypass valves?

If it makes just more torque at lower RPM and no HP gain = It's not interesting.
If it chokes the engine above 5,500-6,000rpm (and even 6,700rpm in my case) = it's not interesting.

also, for those who needs it for 20-25min track sessions... How the heat will be managed? And batteries?

Will update this thread as soon as I have answers

[Aevus]

will answer myself on the high RPM question:


https://i.postimg.cc/T3C6vhcf/torqamp-bypass-valve.png

It's a one-way valve with over 3.5'' diameter, so it won't choke our engine with two of them. But it will require 4x air filters total and a bit more piping work.


So I guess the only remaining question is How Much Power Gain...

[Aevus]

Just got lots of answers from Jelke.

Long story short: hence the name, the Torqamp is a Torque amplifier. The main benefit is to move air at low RPM, on-demand.

So for our big a** engine, it makes not much sense... unless:

A) you have a big cam combined with 3.07 (or even 3.55) gears and the loss of torque at low-rpm is annoying
B) you want massive wheel-spinnin' low-end torque

I might fall into the A) category minus the fact that I have 4.10 gears and not going back... So I guess I'll see when my new engine w/big cam is properly tuned. It's good to know there is an option of the possible lack of torque. But honestly, I doubt I'll need it.

The ''long'' story, now:

The standard Torqamp moves 160 gr per sec of air and the new upcoming one is just an update (don't know the details) that will move 200 gr./sec. Jelke calculated that my 8.3 liters @ 6,700rpm it's 445 gr./sec, so I won't get no HP gain whatsover even with two of them (400gr. /sec). I'm not sure about his calculations but he sure didnt try to sell me something I don't need!

He told me they are working on an entirely new unit that will flow much more, but it's not ready yet.

Also, about the bypass valve(s) when the RPM is high enough and the Torqamp can't supply enough air the one-way valve opens and basically the engine becomes N/A again. Sure won't choke the engine with 2 of them and maybe even just 1 bypass valve would be enough since it's 3.5'' diameter, so that opens the idea of just using ONE unit to simply boost the torque at low RPM, then it becomes N/A after 3,500-4,000rpm or so, without air restriction. Cheaper, simplier, lighter and probably fun.

I sure can imagine the usefullness of cruising on the highway in 6th @1,700rpm, then having 100lbs (150?) of lag-free extra torque. And if it gets too crazy in 1st/2nd gear, you simply shut down or turn down the electric compressor. Might actually be very handy on a racetrack to fine tune the torque for corner exits...

Food for thoughts.

[Aevus]

Sounds like you are first in line then.

sounds like it, indeed.

I'm gonna wait and see how is my new torque curve, though. Just got 4.10 gears installed and not going back and it was a handfull with 400lbs of torque @ 2,500rpm on my other engine... But if it drops to 300lbs-ish with the big camshaft set-up, I may order a single 200gr unit with bypass valve, just for fun. No big risk here, worst case scenario it'll end up on my GF's Boxster.

[TrackAire]

Those results show that this isn't worth spending even a single second of your time (or a single penny of your money) considering it from a performance standpoint. It barely works on a 3.5L engine until 5,000 RPMs, and that engine revs to about 6,800 RPMs (results of a quick Google search). And I shouldn't need to say this but I will anyway: any numbers provided by the manufacturer need to be independently verified.

So this is going to work on an 8.3-8.4L V-10 that revs out beyond 6,000 RPMs?

Most mechanically driven supercharges (essentially what this is) need 50 hp to 80 hp just to drive the supercharger. I'm guessing the Torqamp motor is close to 6 hp so the laws of physics just doesn't add up for something like a Viper motor.

Realistically this Torqamp would be a great addition to something like a Suzuki Samurai which is very under powered but this would give you a quick boost in power when merging or passing traffic.

[Steve M]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oeSAz6FqXCKuNFX6o/giphy.gif

[TrackAire]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oeSAz6FqXCKuNFX6o/giphy.gif

LOL,.....I met these guys at their booth at the 2015 SEMA show. Their stuff looks good and and quality construction but like I said, not for a high horsepower situation.

[Aevus]

Their stuff looks good and and quality construction but like I said, not for a high horsepower situation.

not for high horsepower situation and not for big engine displacement situation.

you gain HP with small engines but torque at low-RPM in all situations.

The name say it all: Torqamp (Torque Amplifier)

[Item 7]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oeSAz6FqXCKuNFX6o/giphy.gif

Agreed. Having just mastered the vagaries of hexadecimals and a Gen IV TPMS swap, I think I’ll let others beta-test this one.