2nd Gear Grind

[finalleaf]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday when I drove the car, I got a 2nd gear grind (and wouldn't go into gear) when car was cold, so I avoided 2nd for a while and when the car got warm the issue went away. This was the first time the car has done this, I've had reverse gear grind a couple times on cold starts (pretty rare).

Would this be 2nd gear synchro going out? or should I flush transmission fluid first and see from there.

Car is still under maxcare but I was wondering how the dealership would handle this if I cannot reproduce it easily

[01sapphirebob]

Id start with a fluid flush and see what happens. Even if its a ‘17 the fluid is five years old (if it was never changed) and probably needs changing. Might consider a brake fluid flush as the clutch uses the same reservoir as the brakes. If still grinding at that point, then id take in.

[finalleaf]

thanks! Im not sure when the transmission fluid was last flushed but the brake was done late last year with SRF. I'll change the trans fluid and hopefully it doesn't happen again.

[Mark1107]

How do I do this? Or where in Los Angeles can this get done? Help...

[finalleaf]

Flushed transmission fluid with OEM, second gear grind still there, it still only happens when the car is cold, once warmed up it shifts smooth as butter.
I've been working around it by skipping to 3rd until the car is warm.

Should I take it to dealer at this point, I'm thinking maybe synchros? not sure if anyone else has ideas

I didn't have this issue last year but this is the first time I'm experiencing sub 45 degree weather in this car

[Mikey]

Curious, I experienced this as well but wasn't sure if it was from me lifting the clutch too early

[finalleaf]

A quick search on google for tr6060 looks like its a very common issue (in basically every car that uses it), many people have had it since new, but still unclear if it's easily addressable..

[AAA96]

For what it’s worth, my 2016 with 7500 miles on it has a rough 1st to 2nd until it is warm. No grinding, but it feels like it’s almost about to (by previous experiences with other cars). Once it has warmed up, it goes away.

Does double clutching it still produce the grind?

[finalleaf]

I will try this maybe later when my car is cold again. I'm thinking of giving it to the dealer since I still have warranty, hopefully before weather gets too warm and it becomes not reproducible

[nuviper]

I encountered similar issue before (around 4 times in 24k miles of driving). One possible reason is that 1-4 skip shift is activated and the transmission tries to prevent you from properly shifting into 2nd gear. Next time you can try to increase the RPM for 1-2 shifting to around 3k and see whether it can help solve the issue. At 3k the skip shift should be deactivated completely.

[Docmartin]

I will try this maybe later when my car is cold again. I'm thinking of giving it to the dealer since I still have warranty, hopefully before weather gets too warm and it becomes not reproducible

I'd take it in if I were you. I had reverse gear grind at first, then it was 3rd, then it shit the bed when I pulled up next to an EV with a "f4strthnu" vanity plate. Fucked around and found out.... He was a lot faster than me when I lost 3rd and 4th.

Replaced under warranty by the dealer... Took a couple months since it was made to order.

[finalleaf]

I'd take it in if I were you. I had reverse gear grind at first, then it was 3rd, then it shit the bed when I pulled up next to an EV with a "f4strthnu" vanity plate. Fucked around and found out.... He was a lot faster than me when I lost 3rd and 4th.

Replaced under warranty by the dealer... Took a couple months since it was made to order.

Makes sense, was your reverse always grinding? or the same only when "cold" issue

All the dealers near me are crappy, I can't even get them to pick up the phone, sigh

[Docmartin]

It was always a little better when warmed up, but it was always that way since I got the car. I had 3rd grind occasionally when I first got the car too. Went through the same process of replacing transmission fluid. Helped a little but not enough to get rid of the issues.

Sorry to hear about your issues with local dealers. You'll have to use one of them if you need to use the powertrain warranty though. Better to get the symptoms properly recorded in the system sooner than later IMO. FWIW my dealer had zero pushback when requesting a new trans under warranty.

[finalleaf]

Double clutching when car is cold helps, will try to get a hold of a dealer

[Steve M]

Likely a synchronizer/blocker ring issue. Not normal, and my understanding is that it requires a tear-down to fix. If it's under warranty, it seems like dealers are more likely to seek out a full replacement rather than try to fix your existing parts.

My Gen 4 was starting to do this after many years, but only rarely - it is now in the hands of John Donato for a tear down, inspection, and refresh, mostly as a preventive measure. He stated he uses a full carbon blocker for 2nd, and the rest will be replaced with hybrid blockers. Not sure what the Gen 5 TR-6060s used from the factory.

[SRT_BluByU]

Full carbon blockers i think std on gen v…. Many do this when cold.. even when new. Shift a bit slower till your snake warms up

[finalleaf]

2 local dealers didn't pick up the phone after many attempts

1 other said they wont be able to take me in until late April, they also said they have no idea what a Viper tech is
the other said their Viper tech is on vacation for another couple weeks.

well then, at least this is something I can live with for now

[Mark1107]

Anybody got a suggestion for a Los Angeles area garage to handle my fluid change?

[finalleaf]

Anybody got a suggestion for a Los Angeles area garage to handle my fluid change?

I would think most performance shops would be able to do it, the hardest part is taking off the belly pan but its not too complicated

[finalleaf]

Update on this.

Car went into dealership, the tech said more likely transmission, but there is a chance that it's clutch, in which case won't be covered by warranty. They have to pull the transmission out to send pictures to dodge, so if its clutch I'm out of that money.

So obviously I am a little anxious now, but I'm hoping that it's more likely transmission since it only happens to 1 gear, only cold, and double clutching makes it go away

[Docmartin]

Where did you end up taking it?

[Steve-Indy]

I am SURE that they will find "something".

In my experience, this kind of issue can be hard to pin down...assuming that there is indeed something wrong. Others have mentioned that their Vipers do the same thing when cold, and the problem disappears as the components warm up. Still others quite legitimately point out that there COULD be major drivetrain issues. At what point is it truly pathologic? This is hard for me to tell as we all seem to speak a non-standardized, rather subjective language when we attempt to describe such things. My favorite is the Viper engine "ticking" discussions...valves?, lifters?, injectors? At this point one finds very few techs with a wealth of Viper experience.

For what it's worth, there are 9 Vipers here spanning all generations, 8 of which were purchased new. All 9 Vipers have a slight "grind" or "crunch" on the first 1st to 2nd shift when cold...all of which sounds/feelings disappear with warming up. I have no plans to have "exploratory surgery" done on any of them.

I do hope that all goes well with the original poster's Viper...and, I will be most interested in hearing the update.

[finalleaf]

Where did you end up taking it?
Ended up taking it to a dealership in east bay, CA


I am SURE that they will find "something".

In my experience, this kind of issue can be hard to pin down...assuming that there is indeed something wrong. Others have mentioned that their Vipers do the same thing when cold, and the problem disappears as the components warm up. Still others quite legitimately point out that there COULD be major drivetrain issues. At what point is it truly pathologic? This is hard for me to tell as we all seem to speak a non-standardized, rather subjective language when we attempt to describe such things. My favorite is the Viper engine "ticking" discussions...valves?, lifters?, injectors? At this point one finds very few techs with a wealth of Viper experience.

For what it's worth, there are 9 Vipers here spanning all generations, 8 of which were purchased new. All 9 Vipers have a slight "grind" or "crunch" on the first 1st to 2nd shift when cold...all of which sounds/feelings disappear with warming up. I have no plans to have "exploratory surgery" done on any of them.

I do hope that all goes well with the original poster's Viper...and, I will be most interested in hearing the update.
Definitely, I think I'm concerned mostly because I did not have grind last year when the weather was cold, so it's definitely new symptom, I'm just hoping it's the transmission so I'm not paying out of pocket for it (well, other than the deductible)

I guess even if they find it being transmission, its possible they deny the warranty for whatever reason they find, my car is stock but I'm always anxious about warranty stuff

[Steve-Indy]

Change in behavior is a very important marker. I just hope they get it right. In that area, there should be a large enough Viper population that the techs do indeed have a depth of Viper experience.

[finalleaf]

Change in behavior is a very important marker. I just hope they get it right. In that area, there should be a large enough Viper population that the techs do indeed have a depth of Viper experience.

Thanks! What I was told was that they just need to verify that it's not clutch, then they will try to warranty the transmission swap, since they aren't allowed to tear transmission apart / rebuild synchros, they just go the replacement route always