Crap despite my quick turn off of the defroster my window exploded

[Martin]

OK - this pisses me off in a big way. In another thread, I noted that I turned the rear defroster on for about ten seconds, I noticed some smoke, and then I turned it off. Nothing bad happened, so I just left it parked overnight.

This morning, I go out to move the car into a garage, and the window had exploded. Probably happened when the temperature dropped. This pisses me off... Now I need to get the dealer to somehow trailer the car, and with an ACR, I have no idea how they're going to pull that one off.

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[Steve M]

https://media.giphy.com/media/a79Jr229u3bzO/giphy.gif

[Steve-Indy]

Damn...really sorry to hear that !!

There may be another way to go about this...as I have helped one of my members who had a peculiar Gen V hatch issue. Give me a call if you like at 317 402 9013.

What a pain in the Asp at this point in time !!

[Martin]

Thanks Steve - it's still under warranty, and I'm friends with the owner of the dealership, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he'll fix it. For now, I'm using automotive painter's tape and some visqueen to keep the humidity out, and hopefully they can find a way to flat bed the thing into town without screwing up the underside.

When I saw that puff of smoke yesterday, I had an "oh shit" moment, but when it stopped, and I sat in the car with the heater and A/C running for about 15 minutes, I figured it was fine. Then this morning, when I looked at the car from inside the house, the rear window looked like it was fogged over. So, I went out and then had a "oh massive shit" moment. I tried to open the hatch to line the inside so that glass didn't get everywhere, but the moment the unlock button activated, the whole thing imploded. I guess that's a job for the service department to clean up.

How they managed to let this design flaw go without notifying EVERYONE to have it checked out is beyond me. This is one of the very last '17 cars to go off the assembly line, and the TSB seems to only apply to earlier cars. But, clearly, it's not fixed for everyone.

If anyone has a Gen V, either pull that #20 fuse or demand that the dealer check out the clearance. In the five years or so that I've owned this car, I've never used the defroster. Probably because I never drive it in cold weather. But, with the weird horn chirping issue I was noticing, I figured driving it around and getting it fully heated up was a good idea. The downside was that the rear window needed defrosting - and then it goes boom.

At least it's under warranty. We'll see if anyone has a rear window in stock. While it's in there, I have a list of other small issues that need to get fixed, so maybe this isn't the end of the world. I hate going to the dealer, but when things like this happen, they've got to give me some slack regarding keeping the car indoors, etc.

[Policy Limits]

Disgraceful

[Hawk]

That's bullshit. I pulled the fuse from mine the day I got it however that shouldn’t be the solution

[ViperTony]

There are a couple of TSB's about this, I believe this is the most recent: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10217503-9999.pdf

[Martin]

Here's something that I found that is really annoying. Right where the problem was, I found the inspection sticker that should have had someone sign off on it passing inspection. The sticker is blank, except for someone who basically signed that things were installed. For a car like this, I'd think quality control would be a bit better. If they leave me out in the cold on this one, I'm going to be super pissed.

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[Martin]

At least I have it all wrapped up in visqueen and painter's tape. If they can't come and pick it up before the next rains hit, I'll stick it back in the garage. We've got more rain headed our way in a week or so, and I need this car to be in a safe location. When it was a $150k car, I wasn't too stressed. But now that it's a $300k car, I'm definitely stressed.

Pisses me off that a car like this, which is going for as much as a house when I grew up, would have weird problems that just haven't been fixed. I kind of miss the Daimler Chrysler days. Back then, quality was a priority - even if their management and their design teams were less than optimal.

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[Steve-Indy]

The real question is whether your dealership has a qualified, Viper-experienced, caring tech who is capable of doing the job.

If not, I would consider sending the whole hatch to Prefix on Chrysler's dime. And, yes...it has been done!!

[ACRSNK]

Sorry this happened. I second the Prefix solution if you can get them to cover it. I’d rather give them the hatch than the whole car. No telling what could happen to the car while sitting at a dealership. Glass is easy to replace. Stryker Purple paint….not so much.

P.S. you car is worth more than $300K. You have one of the best ACR’s out there.

[quickster2]

Here's something that I found that is really annoying. Right where the problem was, I found the inspection sticker that should have had someone sign off on it passing inspection. The sticker is blank, except for someone who basically signed that things were installed. For a car like this, I'd think quality control would be a bit better. If they leave me out in the cold on this one, I'm going to be super pissed.

52865

That "sticker" is from the supplier of the part. Not all parts would go through all 3 inspections FYI. Looks like that part was subjected to the hand applied gauge quality check. 1st pieces of the run would typically get checked with the Faro Arm. Incoming inspection would typically be performed based on SPC or randomly. Good luck with the window. When they replace it make sure the TSB's are performed accordingly.

[mikesax]

That really EFFIN sucks! I hope your new rear glass goes in quickly and correctly! I have yet to turn my rear defroster on - on all the 5 GEN V's I've owned! I thought the "issue" had been worked out with the later years-guess not 100%! Never trusted the problem was 100% fixed anyways-guess i was right!
It took me about 5 -6 weeks to find a used pressurized bottle for my 15-finally got a 2009 that fit-they only changed the part number-not the part! Hopefully there is a rear glass in the supply chain- the lack of parts 5 years after production ended
in the supply chain is abhorrent! My warranty was worthless when it came to finding a part that didn't exist- BEST OF LUCK!

[ViperGarageElite]

Sorry for such a BS problem but much appreciate the advice on pulling the damn fuse. Good luck

[VENOM-TA]

Where is this fuse #20 located, does this issue include the 2013-2014 Vipers?

[Steve-Indy]

Power Distribution Center (PDC) under the hood. Cross reference the fuse listing in your Owners Manual with the numbers embossed into the PDC cover.. It is a pink, 30 amp "box" fuse in slot #20. And, yes...this applies to 2013-14 Vipers. I know of more than one Launch Edition with blown rear glass...some owners of which did not know about the problem until they found shattered glass bits in the battery area. I remember being told that some dealers chose NOT to test the defrost switch for fear of blowing the glass...and being stuck with the car for an extended period of time.

[Martin]

I'd love to know what the root cause was. All I can say is that for the first time in this car's life, I turned on the rear defroster and after about ten seconds, I could see smoke billowing out on the driver's side. I immediately turned off the defroster, and thought I had averted disaster. I locked the car up, went inside my house, and the next morning I saw what looked like condensation in the rear window. Condensation bothers me (it's been super humid up here since the big storms hit - and the temperature swings wildly from 60s during the day to 30s at night) so I was going to run the A/C on hot for a half hour to make sure the car is totally dry. Then, when I took a look, the entire window had shattered.

[pMak26]

Root cause was documented somewhere but basically the wire shorts, leaving the defroster on no matter what you do to the defroster button - heating the glass to high enough temps that it shatters, or shatters when it encounters cooler air. You get the idea.

[Lawineer]

I'd love to know what the root cause was. All I can say is that for the first time in this car's life, I turned on the rear defroster and after about ten seconds, I could see smoke billowing out on the driver's side. I immediately turned off the defroster, and thought I had averted disaster. I locked the car up, went inside my house, and the next morning I saw what looked like condensation in the rear window. Condensation bothers me (it's been super humid up here since the big storms hit - and the temperature swings wildly from 60s during the day to 30s at night) so I was going to run the A/C on hot for a half hour to make sure the car is totally dry. Then, when I took a look, the entire window had shattered.

It gets too hot.

[Martin]

Root cause was documented somewhere but basically the wire shorts, leaving the defroster on no matter what you do to the defroster button - heating the glass to high enough temps that it shatters, or shatters when it encounters cooler air. You get the idea.

That seems to be exactly what happened to mine. The one difference is that when I turned the defroster off, the smoke stopped pouring out of the rear headliner. I figured it was OK until, as you mentioned, it got colder outside and the thing just gave up the ghost.

Dealer is looking for a window, and hopefully he can get either one of his guys, or an external company to come to my place to install it. I still need to get the TSB done, but because we had some horrible storms up here (road is still washed out in places, mud and rocks everywhere) I don't want to drive down to the dealership until the weather is a bit better.

That said, there's a good chance that a window won't be found for a few months. Ironically, I had just ordered a Car Capsule, so I can put the car in there while waiting. JonB also recommended a temporary window film that is rain proof and won't blow off like my janky visqueen and painter's tape job will likely do.

Hopefully everyone pulls that fuse just in case. This happened so fast that it really surprised me. Just think if someone was on a road trip (say to NVE5), they press the defroster, and BOOM - the window explodes. That would suck so bad that I can't even imagine how mad I'd be.

[Steve-Indy]

Martin, if you want a copy of the TSB as written for the 2013 Vipers, text your email to me. If not...no worries...as "the cat is already out of the bag" so to speak.

P.S. Actually, here is a better thread that contains an updated TSB for 2015-2017. Look for the post by ViperSRT for that link.

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/26564-Rear-window-defogger-Rear-Glass-Exploded

[Martin]

Martin, if you want a copy of the TSB as written for the 2013 Vipers, text your email to me. If not...no worries...as "the cat is already out of the bag" so to speak.

Thanks Steve, the most recent TSB is hopefully going to be good enough. Strangely, it only applies to 2016 and 2017 ACR, ACR-E, and TA 2.0 cars. JonB mentioned that the downforce from the rear wing might be enough over time to squish the electrical connectors into the carbon fiber. Fortunately, it's under warranty, the TSB applies (so no co-pay on my MaxCare) and the dealer is going to see if he can get someone to come out to my place to do the install so that I don't need to deal with driving into town while mudslides and rock slides are still happening around here.

[Bruce H.]

The problem was some hatches didn't have enough space where the wires exited the frame to attach to the heater wires on the glass. Carbon fiber surround shorted the wires and shattered the glass. Solution was to ensure enough gap so the wires wouldn't be shorted, not to pull the fuse and leave the potential for it to happen to the next owner that wanted to use it ;)

[finalleaf]

Thanks Steve, the most recent TSB is hopefully going to be good enough. Strangely, it only applies to 2016 and 2017 ACR, ACR-E, and TA 2.0 cars. JonB mentioned that the downforce from the rear wing might be enough over time to squish the electrical connectors into the carbon fiber. Fortunately, it's under warranty, the TSB applies (so no co-pay on my MaxCare) and the dealer is going to see if he can get someone to come out to my place to do the install so that I don't need to deal with driving into town while mudslides and rock slides are still happening around here.

curious, which dealer are you going with? I also have maxcare in CA and was wondering where I should be going

[Sniper]

Just pullled my #20 fuse

[Dan Cragin]

I have had this issue on numerous cars, 3 times on one car with all the changes. Disconnect the rear defroster connection at the rear hatch glass.

Just my opinion, yours may differ.

[Martin]

curious, which dealer are you going with? I also have maxcare in CA and was wondering where I should be going

I use Normandin in San Jose. Paul Normandin is a Viper owner, avid track rat, and he's always been a big supporter of the VOA - he hosted many events over the years. They are down to just a couple of Viper Techs the last I heard, but everyone in the Bay Area goes to them and service has been outstanding.

[Martin]

I have had this issue on numerous cars, 3 times on one car with all the changes. Disconnect the rear defroster connection at the rear hatch glass.

Just my opinion, yours may differ.

I'm going to do that - I'm not sure if the fuse controls anything else (probably doesn't) but disconnecting and wrapping the connector seems to be a good thing to do since it isolates the problem area.

[quickster2]

Shrink wrap the connector once removed and tuck it away.

[Martin]

Shrink wrap the connector once removed and tuck it away.

Perfect advice. Thanks!!!

[Sniper]

So why not just pull the fuse?

[01sapphirebob]

So why not just pull the fuse?

I would imagine should the car change hands and the previous owner forgets to tell the new owner about the issue the new owner could end up replacing the fuse, thinking they're missing one and then once they hit that button and….BOOM! I would imagine not many people check the connections at the glass if there is an issue with the rear defroster. Just a thought. Not implying that the OP would do anything malicious if they were to get rid of the car.

[Martin]

So why not just pull the fuse?

Honestly, I don't know why I wouldn't just pull the fuse - except that I have no idea what else that fuse may be powering. I'd need to look it up because I've pulled fuses before and then I had random things stop working that I thought were totally unrelated. In this case, I'm never going to sell the car, so shrink wrapping the connector to the defroster seems to be the best solution. In this case, I had never used the defroster before - but I never took the car out in cold weather. It's ironic that the very first time I pressed that button, I saw smoke and then it went boom. I kind of wish I tested it out when I picked the car up back in 2017 - back then, parts were available and it would still have been at the dealership. Now, I've got to figure out how to get it to the dealership - I don't want to drive it in this weather, and I don't trust the towing companies.

[stradman]

Sorry to hear that Martin. Huge Bummer...
I don't think I have ever turned mine on. I have insulated the carbon from the window everywhere it is even in near proximity. Not sure if this would help, but I ain't testing it though.
Just out of interest is there anyone with an ACR who has used their rear defroster regularly without issue?

[Mikey]

What years does this affect? I'm going to pull the fuse regardless

[viper04]

Wow.. Thanks for posting.

[Steve-Indy]

Mikey...2013-2017 Vipers.

[Mikey]

Mikey...2013-2017 Vipers.

Wow. Unacceptable.

[Martin]

Wow. Unacceptable.

With everything else you've gone through with your car, definitely pull the fuse or disconnect the defroster... Windows seem to be tough to get, and they're expensive...

[02192viper]

Where is the rear defroster connection at the rear glass?

[quickster2]

Honestly, I don't know why I wouldn't just pull the fuse - except that I have no idea what else that fuse may be powering. I'd need to look it up because I've pulled fuses before and then I had random things stop working that I thought were totally unrelated. In this case, I'm never going to sell the car, so shrink wrapping the connector to the defroster seems to be the best solution. In this case, I had never used the defroster before - but I never took the car out in cold weather. It's ironic that the very first time I pressed that button, I saw smoke and then it went boom. I kind of wish I tested it out when I picked the car up back in 2017 - back then, parts were available and it would still have been at the dealership. Now, I've got to figure out how to get it to the dealership - I don't want to drive it in this weather, and I don't trust the towing companies.

I'm sure some of the members in the VOA close to you have trailers. Might want to try to reach out to them. Most towing companies won't have the approach angle needed for your ACR. Also make sure they use the tiedowns on the frame members front and rear or the over the tire type. Good luck.

[Mikey]

With everything else you've gone through with your car, definitely pull the fuse or disconnect the defroster... Windows seem to be tough to get, and they're expensive...


As far as the tow, is part of the splitter removable? My car has ta 2.0 guards and was able to get onto the trailer without a problem

[13COBRA]

Where is the rear defroster connection at the rear glass?

It'll be up where the hatch hinges to the roof line. Shouldn't be hard to see.

[Martin]

I'm sure some of the members in the VOA close to you have trailers. Might want to try to reach out to them. Most towing companies won't have the approach angle needed for your ACR. Also make sure they use the tiedowns on the frame members front and rear or the over the tire type. Good luck.

I think what I need to find is an exotic car transport - one that has a full-car lift so that the car can just drive into the trailer. I'm sure there are people local who could help, but I don't want to put anyone out. I think the solution to this is to use the professional "temporary window" wrap that JonB suggested (https://www.marcyadhesives.com/autoglass-products/windowguard), keep the car in the Car Capsule that I just bought, have a dehumidifier running (just for my own sanity - this area is crazy humid this time of year), and then drive it to the dealer when my road looks safe enough.

The windows seem to be available - but that might be a mirage. I found some Mopar online stores that have them, and when I put them in my cart, I got a "out of stock" message. If the dealer can find one, that might speed things up a bit.

The other alternative is the dealer says we might be able to get some techs out to my place and they'll do the install. From there, I'll have the TSB done when the weather is a bit better (although I'm going to leave the connectors loose and shrink wrap them).

This is just one more reason I should buy a trailer. I've wanted one forever, but can't seem to find one that fits my needs. They're also expensive as heck, and my tow vehicle is on the fritz, so the priority to get one fell pretty fast.

[ViperJon]

I had this before my car arrived. Absolutely critical.

52877

[Steve M]

The windows seem to be available - but that might be a mirage. I found some Mopar online stores that have them, and when I put them in my cart, I got a "out of stock" message. If the dealer can find one, that might speed things up a bit.

This is a recurring theme - I went through this at the end of last year when I was looking for various parts. I placed an order thinking that they wouldn't let you check out if they didn't have it somewhere in their inventory. A day later, and I'd get an email saying they cancelled my order with no explanation.

Frustrating to say the least.

[RT SERPENT]

Sorry to hear that Martin. Huge Bummer...
I don't think I have ever turned mine on. I have insulated the carbon from the window everywhere it is even in near proximity. Not sure if this would help, but I ain't testing it though.
Just out of interest is there anyone with an ACR who has used their rear defroster regularly without issue?

I heard about this years ago so I had my dealer take care of the issue following the TSB. We agreed to wait until the fall and I would bring the car back in to "test" the fix, just in case it didn't work then they would have all winter to source the new glass, etc. That fall they tested it in front of me. Worked fine.
I've used my rear defroster multiple times. No issue.

Quite frankly even if it weren't on warranty ...with this being a known issue and having a TSB fix, they don't really have an argument not to fix it. Waiting for the part is the biggest issue.

Good luck. Gorgeous car!

[Martin]

Good luck. Gorgeous car!

Thanks!!! I agonized over choosing the Stryker Purple for so long that I almost missed the unexpected order freeze back then. The problem with the purple is it just can't be done justice in photos, and I had never seen one in person. When seen in the sun, and especially in mixed light (like with bright sun through the trees), it's breathtaking. I'm really glad this defroster incident didn't mess up the paint. I did a search on it, and found a few stories where the wires and carbon fiber got so hot that it messed the bodywork up. I saw one posting where a white car had a giant brown discoloration, and the carbon fiber looked like it delaminated. That would just be no bueno - I'm not sure how Dodge would fix that as a TSB fix.

[Martin]

I had this before my car arrived. Absolutely critical.



I'm hoping to get a tow hook installed when the car is in the shop for the defroster issue. There are just no good places to attach to the car without causing damage. I'm always paranoid that something will go wrong and I'll need a tow. I've held off because I saw one car with some bent supports (where these are mounted) due to getting dragged out of a nasty off track excursion, but I've heard that these are 99% safe as long as the car can roll somewhat smoothly.

[bluesrt]

I would steer clear of removing the whole hatch due to good luck on getting it to align back the same, I know a gen 4 acr is a mother to get back correctly

[TheMadMachinist]

I didn't even read all of the posts on this whole thread. But this was a problem, like eight or nine years ago. Yes it totally agree that it sucks that this could even happen at all. But lets be reasonable here. This issues nothing new. Right?

I do hope you have this issue resolved at Normaden. But I will mention I brought my 2013 into this dealership for service a few years ago and it was still under the extended warranty. On the trip to the dealership the passages window completely fell out of it's track. Then after getting to this dealership I mentioned it to them and they told me that they needed something like a few hundred dollars to diagnose the problem. What?

Anyway I hope you get some kind of resolution to your problem. I would imagine five years down the road from my issue. Parts are scarce to say the least.

Your extended warranty is only as good as your local dealership. We all know that at this point no one even cares about these car when it come from the manufacture.

If I am totally off base please feel free to school me.

[Martin]

The extended warranties are tricky. I believe each issue is treated separately, so if there's a deductible, each issue gets charged the deductible. Paul has always been great - but they did go through some fairly major issues with their techs during Covid. For a while, I believe they had a few "Viper techs" who went through the training, but weren't really experienced. Now, they have one who is really good, and the other I've never worked with. All that said, whenever I ran into issues (like getting a rental car while I had the MaxCare policy), Paul would always step in and help. Overall, they're my go-to dealer, but as with any dealership, the service is only as good as the person you're dealing with.

I had some HORRIBLE experiences with other Dodge/Jeep dealerships in the area in the past. One service manager wanted to void my warranty, and he was also going to deny service. I had to fight that one out, and I think they went out of business during the big debacle of the Chrysler bankruptcy, which they deserved.

All in all, it's really hard to find good service these days. I'm sure a lot of trained Viper techs will figure out a way to stand up some independent shops. Ted at Vallaya is good - he was my go-to guy for years, and when I pull my Gen II out of hibernation, it's going straight to him for a total go-over.

[quickster2]

You may want to check with the local Safelite as well. When I had my Cayenne S they took care of me and the local Porsche dealer sent all their glass repair/replacements to them. At least it would be another data point.

[ek1]

Martin, sorry to hear about your ACR. As Bruce correctly pointed out, the issue happens when the exposed surface of the rear defroster touches the carbon fiber surround of the hatch and since CF is conductive, it shorts out the defroster, causing the glass to shatter (Not sure about the physics of that part).

I was pretty sure that by now everyone with a Gen V put some sort of insulating tape around the defroster contacts (exactly like shown in the TSB), which effectively prevents them from ever touching the CF hatch material. Pulling the fuse is another way to do it, but then you can't use the defroster.

I hope you get your Viper back to it's glory soon. Hopefully Dodge has some rear glass somewhere.

[ek1]

Martin, forgot to mention one other thing.

There are tow trucks with beds that fold in half. I can't find the name of this contraption and can't find anything on Youtube, but any dealership that sells exotic sports cars in your area should be able to give you a contact for a towing company that has them. Try McLaren, Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley, etc. With these tow trucks, they lower the bed down and then fold it, so that the rear section is almost parallel to the ground. You drive up on it and when you are half way in, they straighten the bed, which raises the nose of the car and prevents it from rubbing/scraping. Then you just drive up the rest of the way and you are done. Takes minutes.

Update:

The truck in this video has a bed with a folding rear section. It's not the exact same thing that my dealer has, but close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcq0qqXnR8A

There is also this model where the entire bed slides down to the ground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxsX9u7O3g0

Also, make sure you force the tow truck driver to use the straps around the wheel to secure the Viper on the flatbed. Some of those ass clowns try to attach straps to control arms (big no-no)

[Sniper]

LOL my car don’t even see rain let alone anything below 50°

[Martin]

LOL my car don’t even see rain let alone anything below 50°

Yeah, mine never really did, either. But, we had some insane storms, a tree hit my garage, and things went south at that point. All in all I got off easy - I have neighbors who lost their entire homes due to mudslides. That's a complete non-insured loss - insurance doesn't cover ground movement. So, my predicament is extremely minor in comparison. I'll just keep the car in the Car Capsule, with a dehumidifier running constantly, until the weather is good enough to drive down to the dealer. By then, hopefully my garage is rebuilt - but because all of California is either flooded, under mud, or under trees, the insurance company and all the contractors are booked up for months. This has been a crazy winter - we went from unusually warm and dry "extreme drought" to flooding almost overnight.

[Mikey]

LOL my car don’t even see rain let alone anything below 50°

I drive mine anytime it's not raining
I may have used the rear defrost, now that I think about it

[ViperGeorge]

I had Mark Jorgenson check my defroster out when he was installing the 9 liter. He said it was ok but I still haven't used it.

[Martin]

So, here's an interesting twist... Even though there is a TSB on this, and it's a known issue, the TSB does NOT cover the repair. The TSB will only cover the installation of the tape that supposedly prevents this from happening. I got super pissed off at first - the window is about $1400 plus tax, and the labor is $550.

Fortunately, because this was caused by an electrical issue, my MaxCare warranty covers it, minus my deductible.

So, I think it's a good idea for EVERYONE to pull the connectors or pull the fuse for their defrosters. How a known issue can cause damage, and then have coverage denied, is beyond me. The car was in the shop about a year ago, the TSB was in effect, yet nobody told me anything about it or did anything about it. It just blows my mind - I had no idea that the problem affected my car, and the service department had my car in their possession for a few weeks, so a reasonable person would think that while it was there, they'd do a search on any recalls or TSBs that may be in effect.

If I didn't have the MaxCare policy in force, I'd be seriously pissed right now. As it stands, I'm just annoyed and perplexed as to how far downhill the Dodge brand has gone since Stellantis took over. I get the feeling that they probably wish they never built Vipers.

[Sniper]

Exactly why I pulled my fuse!
I’ve noticed I have to bring up recalls or TSBs as the dealer doesn’t mention them. If I remember once I was at the dealership and they said they can’t bring something up, I’d have to request it.

[Martin]

It's a bit insane - and it wasn't always like this. When I bought my first Gen II back in '97, Dodge treated me like royalty. Now, Stellantis doesn't give a crap about their most loyal customers. I was about to buy another Rubicon for my wife, and now I'm re-thinking that plan.

I would hate to be one of those people who pays big bucks for an out of warranty ACR-E, get it home, press the defroster button, and have the window go boom - and then find out Stellantis won't cover a manufacturing defect that they issued a service bulletin for. It's just shameful.

[Steve-Indy]

The real question remains: how confident are you that your local dealership will be able to do a job that lives up to your expectations. With all due respect, being friends with the owner means little if the shop does not have experienced, caring, and willing technicians. This is not just a Viper...but a "creme de la creme" of Vipers. Have you even explored the Prefix concept at this point? I'm sure hoping this goes well.

[Martin]

You're right Steve. I am putting a lot of faith into them, and between now and when the window comes in, I'm going to ask Paul about their Viper techs. Years ago, they were the go-to shop for just about everyone in Northern California. Paul Normandin is a die-hard Viper fanatic, and I trust him. But, if they don't have a good tech, I may try to see what else can be done. I've heard that trying to take the whole hatch off and then get it back on with proper alignment is risky, and I'm quite sure Stellantis won't ship the whole car to Prefix on their dime.

They've done these window replacements before, but again, who knows if the same Viper techs are still there. A lot changed during Covid, and people may have moved on.

[TIME]

You're right Steve. I am putting a lot of faith into them, and between now and when the window comes in, I'm going to ask Paul about their Viper techs. Years ago, they were the go-to shop for just about everyone in Northern California. Paul Normandin is a die-hard Viper fanatic, and I trust him. But, if they don't have a good tech, I may try to see what else can be done. I've heard that trying to take the whole hatch off and then get it back on with proper alignment is risky, and I'm quite sure Stellantis won't ship the whole car to Prefix on their dime.

They've done these window replacements before, but again, who knows if the same Viper techs are still there. A lot changed during Covid, and people may have moved on.

Hi Martin, sorry to hear about your defroster mishap.

FWIW: I just bought my OTA 59/93 from Paul Normandin. I am having a few items fixed (window motor & door hinge) before taking delivery. Talking to Paul about their tech gave me the outmost confidence that it is in good hands. I have no concerns whatsoever, and I truly appreciate the way everything has been handled so far. And yes, I am having the leads for the defroster inspected and corrected as needed.

We are lucky to have the Normandin dealership in the area.

[Martin]

Hi Martin, sorry to hear about your defroster mishap.

FWIW: I just bought my OTA 59/93 from Paul Normandin. I am having a few items fixed (window motor & door hinge) before taking delivery. Talking to Paul about their tech gave me the outmost confidence that it is in good hands. I have no concerns whatsoever, and I truly appreciate the way everything has been handled so far. And yes, I am having the leads for the defroster inspected and corrected as needed.

We are lucky to have the Normandin dealership in the area.

Congrats on the OTA!! I was just down there and I didn't see it - but Paul tends to hide things away because kids will stick their hands on anything in the showroom.

I'm confident that Normandin can get the job done. Just about everyone goes to them for Viper service, so they can justify the expense of keeping Viper techs up to date. One guy there is outstanding - he pulled my door apart to fix some things, and the work was perfect. I couldn't even tell that he worked on it, except that everything functioned properly.

[Martin]

Gotta say, those Car Capsules are fantastic. I got one that is 20' long, it has a ton of room in the front and back for things, and it seems to be sturdy as heck. I've got a dehumidifier running, and I put a temperature gauge and humidity sensor in there, and it's keeping the capsule at a decent temperature and a humidity of around 70%. That's much better than the outside humidity of 99%.... I did have to run a chunk of garden hose outside of the capsule to drain the moisture out of the dehumidifier, but that's no big deal - just let it run where the zippers meet, and it drains nicely. I think I'll get a few more of these because I've got way too many cars, and I'm always fighting the mice away.

[Martin]

An update - the dealer texted me, and the rear window is on the way. I'm not sure if these things get built on an as-needed basis, but from what she described, it sounds like they go straight through the manufacturer. It didn't sound like an off the shelf product as she apparently had to talk to them directly and they had specific instructions on how to properly install it. It's a two day process, which sounds much more complicated than what I've experienced from the usual glass companies that just pop the glass in. Apparently these windows are a stressed structural part of the rear hatch, and they need a special adhesive. Maybe I'm not understanding everything, but it definitely doesn't sound like something Safelite could do. In any event, towards the end of the month I'll drive it in, and hopefully it's not raining and my road isn't full of mudslides and downed trees.

[Dan Cragin]

The window does not come complete and needs to be installed by a sublet company. The dealer most likely will have someone come out
and do it. The glass needs to be glued in with a special adhesive and aligned properly. The most important thing is the placement of the glass
in respect to the defroster grid and connection, it cant contact the carbon fiber rear deck lid in any way.

Hope this helps,

Dan

[Martin]

Thanks Dan, that explains a lot. I'm hopeful that whoever they bring out is going to be really good. The sublet company is probably why Paul initially told me that he might be able to get people out to my place and do the job without me having to bring it his service department. I might ask him if that's still an option - but if the colder conditions here might mess things up, I'd rather they do it at their place. Keeping my fingers crossed that they do it right!