5th gear

[theacr_viper]

Hi guys,

Having an issue with 5th gear on track. With high rpm it doesn't want to engage and instead wants to go into reverse! Which it obviously it doesn't so it kinda stays neutral.

The car sat during summer time in storage. when I started it it didn't want to go into reverse sometimes!And driving on the road when shifting to 5th it wants to go to reverse!! Changed to Amsoil ATF fixed the issue and the tranny became very smooth.

But today at the track 5th is not coaporating!! Not sure if anyone had this issue!

[ssmith71]

Reverse lockout switch / solenoid not working?

[Jack B]

5th gear syncro's or clutch??

[CajunViper09]

I had the exact same thing happen to me in my 13. At mid to high RPMs in 4th, I could not get in 5th with ease. The shifter would just hit a wall and wouldn't go in 5th. I never forced it, but it just wouldn't go! Normal low/mid RPM street driving wasn't an issue, but on the road course, no 5th for me. I ended up pulling the trans to get rebuilt and bought a new clutch.

The performance shop that performed the work said the only thing they saw issue with was the slave/throw out bearing was bad, clutch looked good. The transmission rebuild shop said they saw no issue with the 5th gear parts. Only wear on my 2nd and 3rd gear sets which I had to replace. I believe there have been a few posts in the past about this same issue and findings leaned towards throw out bearing/slave cylinder needing to be changed.

[Rare Snake]

What track are you on to be hitting 5th gear? I'm jealous! My local little goat path gets me well into 4th on the front straight only.

It would be so much fun to make that shift at full send without getting my car impounded! lol

[Nth Moto]

Hi guys,

Having an issue with 5th gear on track. With high rpm it doesn't want to engage and instead wants to go into reverse! Which it obviously it doesn't so it kinda stays neutral.

The car sat during summer time in storage. when I started it it didn't want to go into reverse sometimes!And driving on the road when shifting to 5th it wants to go to reverse!! Changed to Amsoil ATF fixed the issue and the tranny became very smooth.

But today at the track 5th is not coaporating!! Not sure if anyone had this issue!

There are several things here that point to the clutch not releasing entirely, and subsequently causing damage to the synchronizer ring. The synchro ring for 5/6 gear is much smaller than 1/2 and 3/4 synchro's and will wear quicker showing the issue sooner.

The reverse lockout solenoid is strong, but not as strong as a driver determined to get the car in 5th gear and you can push through it. This only happens when the driver is over compensating for the anticipation of it being a struggle to get into gear, typically.

[Hawk]

Mine started doing the same thing at Watkins Glen. Ended up being my clutch was at the end of its life. I just picked up an Nth Moto clutch cant wait to try it out!

[theacr_viper]

Thanks everyone for the reply!

I just talked to the shop about the clutch alignment tool, and they said they used Audi's tool which looks to work but I'm 100% now sure the clutch is not aligned properly! It's a new clutch by the way.

I'll take the trans out check the 5/6 synchros , check throw out bearing and possibly change the reverse lockout solenoid. I never forced it into 5th, I tried going easy into it with no luck!

Rare Snake: It's Yas Marina GP first back straight easily 170/180mph with a fast car before you hit an 80 degree turn.

[Steve-Indy]

Before you go too far, you might want to check to see that your shifter is securely bolted in place. Just a thought.

[theacr_viper]

Before you go too far, you might want to check to see that your shifter is securely bolted in place. Just a thought.

Sure, thanks for the insight Steve

[Hawk]

Mopar 68029168AASOLENOID-Reverse LOCKOUT
https://www.moparpartsgiant.com/parts/mopar-solenoid-reverse-lockout~68029168aa.html


Reverse lockout discontinued WTF

[Dan Cragin]

I have had several Gen 5 track day cars with the same issue. On one car, the owner keep trying to push it in reverse at 130mph.

Running a better clutch, isolating the clutch line from heat, properly purging the clutch hydraulic system of air (difficult on Gen 5's) all help.
Using a proper gear lubricant, as opposed to ATF4 is pretty much mandatory on a track car.

Once you do have an issue, you need to repair the transmission before doing any of the above.

Just my experience, yours may differ.

[J TNT]

I have had several Gen 5 track day cars with the same issue. On one car, the owner keep trying to push it in reverse at 130mph.

Running a better clutch, isolating the clutch line from heat, properly purging the clutch hydraulic system of air (difficult on Gen 5's) all help.
Using a proper gear lubricant, as opposed to ATF4 is pretty much mandatory on a track car.

Once you do have an issue, you need to repair the transmission before doing any of the above.

Just my experience, yours may differ.

Hi Dan , which gear lubricant do you recommend on the TR6060 ?

[Dan Cragin]

BG Syncroshift 2
Castrol Syntorque
Rockland Gear T6060 Transzilla oil

All have extreme pressure additives and work well at high tempretures.

[Jack B]

Sure, thanks for the insight Steve

Or top plate

[Jack B]

If the clutch was not aligned the trans would not go in.


Thanks everyone for the reply!

I just talked to the shop about the clutch alignment tool, and they said they used Audi's tool which looks to work but I'm 100% now sure the clutch is not aligned properly! It's a new clutch by the way.

I'll take the trans out check the 5/6 synchros , check throw out bearing and possibly change the reverse lockout solenoid. I never forced it into 5th, I tried going easy into it with no luck!

Rare Snake: It's Yas Marina GP first back straight easily 170/180mph with a fast car before you hit an 80 degree turn.

[Steve-Indy]

Update ??

[theacr_viper]

Update ??

Got the reveres lockout solenoid installed , drained the trans oil with little debris from reverse grinding. took it around the block and it seems fine for now. Reverse acting funny, sometimes it locks sometimes it doesn't I'm sure there is few teeth that is not there lol.
I can't floor it and see how it acts with WOT in Dubai as there is speed cameras everywhere (it's not worth it) so I'll have to wait for a track day next week. But I'll update you guys!

Thanks everyone for sharing their opinions!

[Hawk]

Where did you get the reverse lock out? The 6060 transmission is not exclusive to the viper I would think there’s others out there with a different part number? Is it the same as in the T-56?

[theacr_viper]

I was lucky it was in stock in Dubai, part 68029168AA.

Paid around 400$ though! Viper tax!


Where did you get the reverse lock out? The 6060 transmission is not exclusive to the viper I would think there’s others out there with a different part number? Is it the same as in the T-56?

[Hawk]

After looking around the internet I found out this part also fits challengers, Jeeps and other Mopar cars. Same part number retails for $200
Some of the online companies have a reverse lock out that fits T56 and T6060 transmissions they however they do have them listed as a Viper part it does list them by transmission model. Hawks motorsports has them

[Hawk]

https://www.hawksmotorsports.com/t5-t56-tr6060-manual-transmission-magnetic-drain-plug-dimple/

They also make this magnetic drain plug for the 6060 transmission. Might be a good idea incase there are any fine metal partials in the fluid
I just ordered one

[stradman]

I had exact same problem a couple of years ago. Turns out the bushings on the shifter had gone. Got new shifter and problem sorted. No issues since then.

[theacr_viper]

Appreciate the insight Alex. Can I look at the shifter bushings from the inside of the car(boot cover) ? or must remove the transmission?


I had exact same problem a couple of years ago. Turns out the bushings on the shifter had gone. Got new shifter and problem sorted. No issues since then.

[Jack B]

Appreciate the insight Alex. Can I look at the shifter bushings from the inside of the car(boot cover) ? or must remove the transmission?


These pics may clarify the questions. Important to note - not all bushings are equal (Delrin), there is some junk available. For clarification in pic 4, the oem install has the boot and boot plate held by rivets, I replaced the rivets with machine screws

If you can remove the trans top plate, the extra inch makes the reinstall of the trans much easier. That was the main reason I replaced the rivets.

The bushing is in the center of Pic#1. If anyone is interested, do a search, I have a complete write-up on the bushing replacement.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/mm193/Stryker2013/1_Bushing_Seated.JPG?width=320&height=320&fit=bounds

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/mm193/Stryker2013/2_plate.JPG?width=320&height=320&fit=bounds


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/mm193/Stryker2013/Mopar_Bushing.jpg?width=320&height=320&fit=bounds


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/mm193/Stryker2013/DSC01721.JPG?width=320&height=320&fit=bounds

[Dan Cragin]

I don't think the issue you are having relates to the shifter bushing. If first and reverse are a problem engaging and the clutch hydraulic system has no air in it,
its most likely a transmission issue.

Hope this helps, opinions may differ.

[stradman]

I don't think the issue you are having relates to the shifter bushing. If first and reverse are a problem engaging and the clutch hydraulic system has no air in it,
its most likely a transmission issue.

Hope this helps, opinions may differ.

Well the OP mentioned only 5th, exactly like the problem I had, and for me at least it sorted problem. What else can I say?

[Dan Cragin]

Great information, just adding to the mix.

Its much easier to check a shifter bushing than pull a transmission.

As I stated, its just an opinion, hopefully the "fix" can be documented here for future use.

[theacr_viper]

Thanks Jack for the pictures! I'll look up the write up as well.


These pics may clarify the questions. Important to note - not all bushings are equal (Delrin), there is some junk available. For clarification in pic 4, the oem install has the boot and boot plate held by rivets, I replaced the rivets with machine screws

If you can remove the trans top plate, the extra inch makes the reinstall of the trans much easier. That was the main reason I replaced the rivets.

The bushing is in the center of Pic#1. If anyone is interested, do a search, I have a complete write-up on the bushing replacement.


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/mm193/Stryker2013/1_Bushing_Seated.JPG?width=320&height=320&fit=bounds

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/mm193/Stryker2013/2_plate.JPG?width=320&height=320&fit=bounds


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/mm193/Stryker2013/Mopar_Bushing.jpg?width=320&height=320&fit=bounds


https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/mm193/Stryker2013/DSC01721.JPG?width=320&height=320&fit=bounds

[stradman]

Dan, your input to this forum is and has been invaluable to everyone here mate. Not many people in the world with your experience with this car. I certainly wasn't questioning your thoughts in any way. Just put in my 2 cents and personal experience FWIW that's all.
Please continue enlightening us!:dude3:

[theacr_viper]

Well guys, I changed the shifter bushings which were actually loose! I took them off with my nails that's how loose and used they were. put new reverse solenoid in. still no good. cruising it goes into 5th! full throttle No No! right into reverse!

I managed to get 1st podium at time attack event against Porsche's and AMG GTRs. I was holding top of 4th for 10 secs lol. but picked up some pace at turns.

going to send the tranny for a rebuild and upgrade. so far laying towards TICK PERFORMANCE.. Any advice on shops I should consider?

Thanks in advance

[Jack B]

There is no one better than John Donato, he was formerly the head engineer for the Viper's driveline

[theacr_viper]

where does he work now ? how to contact him ?

Thanks Jack

[Docmartin]

I found John on LinkedIn and shot him a message back when I lost my transmission. He was very responsive. Try there to start.

[Hawk]

Were you able to change the shift bushing this with the transmission still in the car? Did you replace just the plastic bushing or replace the entire offset lever with the bushing already installed? If you took the offset lever off was it difficult to drive the pin out without it dropping into the transmission? If you did just the bushing could you post a link to the part
Thanks
Dennis

[Dan Cragin]

Tick does a lot of these gearboxes and has a good reputation.

For the best of the best, send it to Rockland gear, it gets all 300m internals and will take twice the rated torque of the engine.
I've done numerous Comp Coupes and ACRX's with this gearbox, with no issues.

[theacr_viper]

Were you able to change the shift bushing this with the transmission still in the car? Did you replace just the plastic bushing or replace the entire offset lever with the bushing already installed? If you took the offset lever off was it difficult to drive the pin out without it dropping into the transmission? If you did just the bushing could you post a link to the part
Thanks
Dennis

Hawk,
I couldn't take the pin out the offset lever. I just took the bushing from the new lever to the one in the car. I did it while the tranny installed. I had to drill a hole for the 5 o'clock bolt. everything else is easy just installed the 5 o'clock bolt, you'll need small left hand and a magnet pick up tool to slowly drop the bolt in the hole you made. with you left hand you could place it in place and should be easy from there. it was hectic actually but should be easy to do now having a hole there. I just put 4-5 stacks of gorilla tape to cover the hole. should be really strong.

[theacr_viper]

Tick does a lot of these gearboxes and has a good reputation.

For the best of the best, send it to Rockland gear, it gets all 300m internals and will take twice the rated torque of the engine.
I've done numerous Comp Coupes and ACRX's with this gearbox, with no issues.


I shoot them an email! Thank Dan!

quick question? is the 5th to reverse issue common on viper ? or it's just a used transmission issue ?

[stradman]

Well guys, I changed the shifter bushings which were actually loose! I took them off with my nails that's how loose and used they were. put new reverse solenoid in. still no good. cruising it goes into 5th! full throttle No No! right into reverse!

I managed to get 1st podium at time attack event against Porsche's and AMG GTRs. I was holding top of 4th for 10 secs lol. but picked up some pace at turns.

going to send the tranny for a rebuild and upgrade. so far laying towards TICK PERFORMANCE.. Any advice on shops I should consider?

Thanks in advance

:dude3: You're welcome buddy!