Clutch advice

[Hawk]

I’m looking for advice on a new clutch. The upgrades on my engine are just headers, exhaust and Prefix PMC, 90% of my cars use is on the track (road coarse) I’ve been looking at the McLeod RXT twin clutch ,does anyone have experience with this or have advice on another brand or model? I appreciate any advice
Thanks
Dennis

[13COBRA]

I would STRONGLY suggest calling Toddy at Bad Boyz Garage. Their triple disc clutch is awesome, and what I ran in my Gen IV ACR for track use. I run a Tilton Carbon Triple now. I nearly put a BBG back in this car, but I could get the Tilton faster.

Nth Moto also makes stout clutches.

[Hawk]

I have read that the nth moto clutch is difficult to set up?

[SRT_BluByU]

Why not just stock?its a good unit for near stock power on road corses?

[Dan Cragin]

The McLeod is more durable, but otherwise there is no advantage.

Spec makes a lightweight setup that is great for roadracing, we use them in our ACRX cars.

[LATAMUD]

I have read that the nth moto clutch is difficult to set up?

I didn't think so but... I have a triple disc from a friends Viper that the shop had installed incorrectly. The proprietary central puck is designed to have 2 discs installed, then the puck, then the 3rd disck and then pressure plate, in that order. The puck was installed incorrectly causing the 2 leading discs to get crushed. New clutch ruined on install. Been trying to source new discs to save the clutch, Nth won't sell them unless you send in for a full rebuild.

[Hawk]

Why not just stock?its a good unit for near stock power on road corses?

My stock one has taken a beating with high speed and high RMP shifts on the track using Hoosier slicks. My less than expert heel/toe is not helping either. If I’m going to go thru a change I want to upgrade to a more durable setup. I’m probably going to install the V-engineering reve match blip module as well. I also am looking at the Mantic triple disc ,with the stock power I’m not sure its worth the extra $1,200 for the Nth Moto as well as the more difficult installation. I’m just not sure of Mantis’s aluminum flywheel over the billeted on the Nth. I don’t have endless money for my ride so I’m trying to get the best bang for the buck however I also do not want to go thru this again in a couple years
https://manticclutchusa.com/products/2008-2017-dodge-viper-triple-disc-clutch

[Steve M]

My opinion: you haven't given a compelling reason for an "upgrade". If the stock clutch works but is tired, replace it with a stock clutch. If parts availability is an issue, that'll make things a bit more difficult.

I've played this game - there are compromises with everything.

If you absolutely must have an aftermarket clutch, the best advice I can offer is try before you buy.

[Nth Moto]

I have read that the nth moto clutch is difficult to set up?

I'm not sure what would be defined as difficult - there is a three page installation guide that comes with every new clutch and it's pretty well written in giant red crayon of what to do, and what to pay attention to. There's even a cover sheet that before you can gain access to anything within the packaging has giant bold letters that say "READ INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE PROCEEDING", but we all know how good everyone is at reading instructions, ha!

The clutch system uses the OEM slave cylinder for extreme ease regarding the hydraulic system and unless someone mixes up the installation order, or decides to not follow the instructions, there's very little to go wrong. I can tell you that our clutch has been used in some of the highest level of Viper motorsports competition... even when it's supposed to be stock, but because ours is so quiet at idle (a common issue in traditional multi-plate metallic clutches) and easy to drive there's no external giveaway that it isn't.


I didn't think so but... I have a triple disc from a friends Viper that the shop had installed incorrectly. The proprietary central puck is designed to have 2 discs installed, then the puck, then the 3rd disc and then pressure plate, in that order. The puck was installed incorrectly causing the 2 leading discs to get crushed. New clutch ruined on install. Been trying to source new discs to save the clutch, Nth won't sell them unless you send in for a full rebuild.

Precisely, and see above about install. Regarding selling components, the internal design of the clutch has evolved over time and the internals you would need are superseded at this point (well over 2 years ago now). Not only that, but each clutch is balanced as an entire assembly for the utmost in NVH protection so when anything indexed to the clutch positioning (flywheel, cover, floater discs) needs replaced it should be balanced to maintain our standards.

One of the best attributes to the Nth Moto carbon/carbon clutch is not only the overall mass drop off the back of the crank, but where that remaining mass is left which is vastly different between two different clutch designs - even if they have the same static bench weight. With carbon discs the weight on the input shaft is minimal so the change in shaft speed required of the synchronizers to manage is far easier resulting in quicker synchro operation which translates to longer parts life, and quicker shift performance. Whereas that weight savings can be transferred to the flywheel then which aids in smooth drivability and takeoff, as well as good inertia for easier rev match downshifting without getting "too" zippy to where you're overshooting or the engine decelerates too quickly. We think it's about perfect for the majority of drivers.

To date, the most common comment from purchasers who were on the fence is that they regret not buying ours sooner, or that they don't ever want a non-carbon clutch again.

[Hawk]

My opinion: you haven't given a compelling reason for an "upgrade". If the stock clutch works but is tired, replace it with a stock clutch. If parts availability is an issue, that'll make things a bit more difficult.

I've played this game - there are compromises with everything.

If you absolutely must have an aftermarket clutch, the best advice I can offer is try before you buy.
My reasons are
• 1 ½ years toasted my stock clutch ( 15 track days ,6-20 minute sessions per day)
• The cost for all the OEM pats are the same as better aftermarket clutches of similar quality
• The stock clutch heats up faster and does not have the same bite as a good 2 or 3 disc clutch
• The stock flywheel is big and heavy

I don’t believe the stock clutch and flywheel is optimum for my application ,it is decent however with the demanding conditions on the track a well as the additional grip of a slick the stock one heats up too fast and the smallest slippage under these conditions will eat it up as quickly as I have. What would be the reason not to upgrade at this point? Do you believe that the stock setup is as good as the performance once mentioned? I would really love to try before I buy but where do you do that? Thus the reason I’m asking for feedback
Thanks
Dennis

[Hawk]

I'm not sure what would be defined as difficult - there is a three page installation guide that comes with every new clutch and it's pretty well written in giant red crayon of what to do, and what to pay attention to. There's even a cover sheet that before you can gain access to anything within the packaging has giant bold letters that say "READ INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE PROCEEDING", but we all know how good everyone is at reading instructions, ha!

The clutch system uses the OEM slave cylinder for extreme ease regarding the hydraulic system and unless someone mixes up the installation order, or decides to not follow the instructions, there's very little to go wrong. I can tell you that our clutch has been used in some of the highest level of Viper motorsports competition... even when it's supposed to be stock, but because ours is so quiet at idle (a common issue in traditional multi-plate metallic clutches) and easy to drive there's no external giveaway that it isn't.



Precisely, and see above about install. Regarding selling components, the internal design of the clutch has evolved over time and the internals you would need are superseded at this point (well over 2 years ago now). Not only that, but each clutch is balanced as an entire assembly for the utmost in NVH protection so when anything indexed to the clutch positioning (flywheel, cover, floater discs) needs replaced it should be balanced to maintain our standards.

One of the best attributes to the Nth Moto carbon/carbon clutch is not only the overall mass drop off the back of the crank, but where that remaining mass is left which is vastly different between two different clutch designs - even if they have the same static bench weight. With carbon discs the weight on the input shaft is minimal so the change in shaft speed required of the synchronizers to manage is far easier resulting in quicker synchro operation which translates to longer parts life, and quicker shift performance. Whereas that weight savings can be transferred to the flywheel then which aids in smooth drivability and takeoff, as well as good inertia for easier rev match downshifting without getting "too" zippy to where you're overshooting or the engine decelerates too quickly. We think it's about perfect for the majority of drivers.

To date, the most common comment from purchasers who were on the fence is that they regret not buying ours sooner, or that they don't ever want a non-carbon clutch again.

I found the post Steve did on the Nth Moto clutch and it looks strait forward. Like anything if your not good with details plenty of things could go wrong! I think I may have to pony up and go for the Nth. Although I curious why Steve didn’t mention he installed on and if he liked it ?
https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/21571-Nth-Moto-Gen-4-Clutch

[Steve M]

My reasons are
• 1 ½ years toasted my stock clutch ( 15 track days ,6-20 minute sessions per day)
• The cost for all the OEM pats are the same as better aftermarket clutches of similar quality
• The stock clutch heats up faster and does not have the same bite as a good 2 or 3 disc clutch
• The stock flywheel is big and heavy

I don’t believe the stock clutch and flywheel is optimum for my application ,it is decent however with the demanding conditions on the track a well as the additional grip of a slick the stock one heats up too fast and the smallest slippage under these conditions will eat it up as quickly as I have. What would be the reason not to upgrade at this point? Do you believe that the stock setup is as good as the performance once mentioned? I would really love to try before I buy but where do you do that? Thus the reason I’m asking for feedback
Thanks
Dennis

I've chased my tail for years on this one. It sounds like you have already made up your mind, and nothing I say will change that. Nothing wrong with that, so you are going to just need to make a choice and get on with it. I've spent >$6k in clutches over the past several years - that doesn't make my opinion more valid than anyone else, but like I've said, I've been there.

When you say "of similar quality", I'll offer this warning: aftermarket companies don't have an OEM's R&D budget, and they are in the game to make a profit. Making a clutch isn't rocket science, but if there's somewhere they can cut costs, they will, and it'll either be in the parts, or in the testing to ensure a quality product. Bottom line: the general public ends up being involved in their testing campaign whether they realize it or not. Many aftermarket clutch companies will revise their designs after a certain number of failures, and guess who gets to deal with the down time and labor to R&R the clutch? I'm guessing it happens more often than most realize, but don't have much data to back up that assertion. I do have some data, though.

Also, be weary of people hawking one brand over another - in general, I'd only trust the opinion of someone that paid for whatever product they are recommending out of their own pocket. For various reasons, Mantic comes to mind here. I'm personally aware of someone (not on this board) that's used one, and that MFer was noisy as all hell at idle, and it wasn't all that durable from what I saw of it. I've seen others recommend it, but they either got a deal in exchange for free advertising, or their car was sponsored. Good for them, but unless you are also sponsored...

Next point: you need weight in the flywheel. These are heavy cars no matter how you slice it. For a data point, the Nth Moto clutch I've run for years is around 39 pounds. The stock setup was 61-62 pounds or so (Gen 4). Stock flywheel weight: 24 pounds. Nth Moto flywheel: 22 pounds. The weight savings was obviously not from the flywheel. You also need to consider the safety aspect - I felt much better running the Nth flywheel...it was clearly better made than the OEM flywheel, but I really should have been using a blow-proof bell housing since I was asking a LOT of any clutch. Kinda hard to race a car if you don't have both of your feet because your clutch exploded, not to mention that that type of disaster would likely total your car since replacement parts are getting harder and harder to source. Safety first.

Of all the aftermarket offerings I've seen or am aware of, I'd say the Nth Moto triple carbon is the best sorted. It is expensive, but so is replacing a clutch every 1.5 years. If I've learned anything over the years, it's this: if you want to do race car things, you need to use race car parts. It sounds like your expectations are pretty high, so you either need to get used to replacing the clutch as part of your normal maintenance routine, or start accepting some compromises. In the case of Nth Moto, up front cost is the compromise. That, and a little extra noise (my personal experience).

The Nth Moto triple carbon is a little more time consuming than some other clutches to install, but it isn't as bad as you've made it out to be in your mind. Details matter, but everything is written out in their instructions very clearly, and I've posted plenty on the topic in the past. Beware that some say engagement is like an on/off switch, but that was the opposite of my experience. I'm not sure why there's a discrepancy when it comes to engagement, but it exists. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe others got unlucky.

From what you describe, you'll want a friction material that can handle the heat. The hotter carbon gets, the harder it grabs. If you don't go carbon, you'll be looking at something like sintered iron, and that WILL be an on/off switch. That's okay at the track once you are moving, but if you spend any time on the street, you will likely regret it.

I'm not sure any of this is useful, but my recent differential failure has caused me to rethink a lot of things in life, including my willingness to continue racing a car with pretty much no OEM and little aftermarket parts support. Racing is hard on parts, and there will come a point where you'll break something and have a hard time finding a replacement part. And it could be something as stupid as a door latch, but that's a story for another day...

[Whitey]

My reasons are
• 1 ½ years toasted my stock clutch ( 15 track days ,6-20 minute sessions per day)
• The cost for all the OEM pats are the same as better aftermarket clutches of similar quality
• The stock clutch heats up faster and does not have the same bite as a good 2 or 3 disc clutch
• The stock flywheel is big and heavy

I don’t believe the stock clutch and flywheel is optimum for my application ,it is decent however with the demanding conditions on the track a well as the additional grip of a slick the stock one heats up too fast and the smallest slippage under these conditions will eat it up as quickly as I have. What would be the reason not to upgrade at this point? Do you believe that the stock setup is as good as the performance once mentioned? I would really love to try before I buy but where do you do that? Thus the reason I’m asking for feedback
Thanks
Dennis

My two pennies - I have had the Nth Moto clutch for years and highly recommend it. It is lightweight and shifts great. It handles my 9LX power and I'm sure it would work well with even higher power levels. I would not hesitate in going that direction. There were no installation issues. There was some intial "nesting noise" that settled down after 50-100 miles. Since then, it is quiet and has worked flawlessly. I'm sure Aaron will take a call from you if you have any questions.

[SRT_BluByU]

My understanding is the stock flywheel on gen V is a lightweight unit (especially compared to the gen 4).. and clutch is a dual disc.

Steve, Gen V's weight about +/-3300 lbs.. not sure id call that a heavy car.. ha!

[Lawineer]

Yeah, isn't it an aluminum flywheel? It certainly drops revs faster than I'd expect for a v10 with a steel flywheel.

[Steve M]

Yeah, isn't it an aluminum flywheel? It certainly drops revs faster than I'd expect for a v10 with a steel flywheel.

Yes.


Improvements for 2013 include an ultra-high-flow, lightweight composite intake manifold; high-strength, forged pistons; sodium-filled exhaust valves; new catalysts to ease backpressure and an aluminum flywheel that reduces reciprocating losses. Approximately 25 pounds have been shaved from the fully dressed engine.

Source: https://media.stellantisnorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=12204&mid=


My understanding is the stock flywheel on gen V is a lightweight unit (especially compared to the gen 4).. and clutch is a dual disc.

Steve, Gen V's weight about +/-3300 lbs.. not sure id call that a heavy car.. ha!

My understanding was that the clutch assembly weight savings was due to the lighter flywheel (about 10 pounds or so) - the pressure plate assembly appears to be about the same between the Gen 4 and Gen 5 (both are twin disk clutches), but the Gen 5 has a different part number, so not a one-for-one replacement. Andy Wheeler weighed his Gen 5 clutch here: https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13373-3-side-by-side-Gen-V-Clutch-and-Flywheel-weights, and it came in at 51 pounds. My stock Gen 4 clutch was around 61 pounds on my bathroom scale.

As for curb weight, Dodge's 2016 press release says 3,366 lbs for the lightest (SRT trim w/ Sidewinders) all the way up to 3,415 lbs for the GTS. The ACR variants are just under 3,400 lbs (3,374 for the non-extreme, 3,392 w/ the extreme aero).

Source: https://s3.amazonaws.com/chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/mediasite/attachments/2016_Dodge_Viper_Specs8p8494relih5em1i7jbcj7sinc.p df

I know some on this board have shown weights lower than those stated figures, but usually with less than a full tank of gas (some far less than a full tank).

The weight I was referring to, though, was race weight. Add 150-200+ pounds to the numbers above for a driver w/ full gear, and that much again if you have an instructor riding along.

Not as heavy as a lot of newer high performance cars, but not light by any stretch of the imagination when looking at actual race weight.

[Sniper]

SRT with sidewinders and track pack I thought was 3296 lbs.
I weighed my car with half tank of gas and it was 3240 lbs.

[Steve M]

SRT with sidewinders and track pack I thought was 3296 lbs.
I weighed my car with half tank of gas and it was 3240 lbs.

For 2013, I've seen 3,297 lbs. (page 3, here: https://s3.amazonaws.com/chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/mediasite/specs/2013_SRT_Viper_ViperGTS_SP.pdf).

It's not uncommon for the same make/model of a vehicle to gain weight over its production run - safety rules and regulations change, and usually come with a weight penalty.

[Jack B]

I had problems with both McLeod and BadBad Boyz. The McLeod is basically a Mustang clutch. I would stay stock or go with NthMoto. If the installer can read, set up is not a problem. If you want to go cheap, I have a complete stock unit available.

[SRT_BluByU]

Not as heavy as a lot of newer high performance cars, but not light by any stretch of the imagination when looking at actual race weight.

I wouldnt consider 3200-3300 lbs heavy for a production performance car.. maybe only car lighter would be the Lotus Exige or Miata and neither perform at the same level. Actually I would say even a fully loaded GTS at 3400 lbs is still light for a production car.. 911's, GT-Rs, Lambos, Corvettes of similar performance are all heavier. Hell a Ferrari 458 is +/-3300 lbs and doesnt match the performance. Dodge hit a home run with the Gen Vs.. Truely wonderful machines.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

I’m looking for advice on a new clutch. The upgrades on my engine are just headers, exhaust and Prefix PMC, 90% of my cars use is on the track (road coarse) I’ve been looking at the McLeod RXT twin clutch ,does anyone have experience with this or have advice on another brand or model? I appreciate any advice
Thanks
Dennis

Hello Dennis
Lots of good advice on here. Here is our 2 cents looking at it in 2 pairs of shoes. Budget conscious pair of shoes...... Just having fun on track ; and the other pair of shoes.............Spending some dough and getting better performance, option for future performance upgrades, and durability in a competitive atmosphere.

Budget conscious: Stock clutch, stock flywheel are fine for having fun on track with some mild engine upgrades. If you dont abuse the clutch it will last you many open track days. You can always upgrade later after the factory clutch starts to wear out.

More dough more performance: If your doing work at open track days or you think you may want to race or compete in the future we highly recommend the nth moto clutch. By far the best clutch setup out there for the viper. We have installed Nth moto clutches on both mild street cars to highly modified track cars and racecars. Yes they are slightly more involved to install to make them work perfectly and yes they are more expensive but like anything thats high quality and performance based you get what you pay for and what you put in..........Well worth the effort and cash.

[Arizona Vipers]

Nth Moto clutch all the way, especially with you being a track guy. 17 lbs lighter than stock is reason enough for me, but it's also extremely durable I've been beating mine to death with 900hp for 5 years.

[Arizona Vipers]

I wouldnt consider 3200-3300 lbs heavy for a production performance car.. maybe only car lighter would be the Lotus Exige or Miata and neither perform at the same level. Actually I would say even a fully loaded GTS at 3400 lbs is still light for a production car.. 911's, GT-Rs, Lambos, Corvettes of similar performance are all heavier. Hell a Ferrari 458 is +/-3300 lbs and doesnt match the performance. Dodge hit a home run with the Gen Vs.. Truely wonderful machines.

Agreed, Gen 5's are lighter than everyone thinks. My 2013 track pack car was 3190 no fuel no driver. Race seats and lithium battery had me under 3100. It was very easy for me to get under 3000 while still a street car. It's 2880 now including 130lbs of cage.

[Lawineer]

Agreed, Gen 5's are lighter than everyone thinks. My 2013 track pack car was 3190 no fuel no driver. Race seats and lithium battery had me under 3100. It was very easy for me to get under 3000 while still a street car. It's 2880 now including 130lbs of cage.

This is like "skinny crackhead light" for anything made recently with even 500hp, let alone mid 600s. That's very close to GT3RS weight. Even more impressive is that it did it with a steel frame.

C7 Z06s were 300lbs heavier. You'd have to go back to the C6Z to find something lighter (3100lbs). One of many reasons I want a C6Z06 race car. Cheapest way to start with 500hp and 3000lbs- that's near F430 Scud stats. I think all those weights are with CCB.

What did the ACR weigh with CCB? It had a lightweight battery too, right?



I've said this before, but if the G5 was on an aluminum frame, it would have been unbelievable. Could you imagine this car 300lbs lighter from the factory? With a weight reduction package (ie: hollow sway bars, fixed back seats, etc). I bet it would be SIGNIFICANTLY faster around the Ring and C&D's lightning lap.

[phantomapollyon]

If it helps you in any way, here is my thread about my Nth Moto clutch experience:

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/28997-Replacement-trans-and-Nth-Moto-Triple-dealer-install-experience-at-Gerry-Wood-Dodge

The best thing I can say is that I sure as hell wish the clutch in all my cars was as well done as the Nth moto triple, and if I was given the choice again I would definitely chose the same unit. I've had a lot of strong/harsh multi-disc clutches in various cars over the years, and this is literally the first one that I would consider truly a stock-replacement while being way more capable.

It also is not a zero drawbacks upgrade/part for a street car in my opinion, but it's pretty damn close. Note the very minor 5th/6th gear gravel-y/marbly noise at low-RPMs under load that people tend to notice. I would NOT let that scare you away at all, but I wouldn't want anyone to go into it not knowing it was a thing. If I were given the choice to do it again, I most definitely would go the same route. Out of the clutches I've tried/driven, my second choice would definitely be the McLeod RXT twin.

[Hawk]

Thank you everyone for the advice. It seems the Nth Moto clutch is a no brainer ! If the only down side is a little extra noise and a little extra cash it’s a welcome trade off for a better/more durable clutch. I have headers, no cats and the stock muffler so I’m not sure I will even notice the noise. Any chance of a black Friday/Cyber Monday discount!!!???
Have a Happy Thanksgiving
Dennis

[1.8t]

My review of the Nth clutch from years ago - https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/18193-Another-Nth-Moto-Clutch-Review

Best Viper clutch out there.

[Arizona Vipers]

This is like "skinny crackhead light" for anything made recently with even 500hp, let alone mid 600s. That's very close to GT3RS weight. Even more impressive is that it did it with a steel frame.

C7 Z06s were 300lbs heavier. You'd have to go back to the C6Z to find something lighter (3100lbs). One of many reasons I want a C6Z06 race car. Cheapest way to start with 500hp and 3000lbs- that's near F430 Scud stats. I think all those weights are with CCB.

What did the ACR weigh with CCB? It had a lightweight battery too, right?



I've said this before, but if the G5 was on an aluminum frame, it would have been unbelievable. Could you imagine this car 300lbs lighter from the factory? With a weight reduction package (ie: hollow sway bars, fixed back seats, etc). I bet it would be SIGNIFICANTLY faster around the Ring and C&D's lightning lap.

I forget what my ACR weighed, I'll look up some of my old Nasa classing sheets, but I do remember just switching to Forgelines/Hoosiers it dropped over 80 lbs, that's a massive performance increase everywhere. ACR wheels insanely heavy. If Dodge could have built lighter wheels for it, it would have been 1-2 at every track they broke the record at.

Edit: Just found my classing sheet from Nasa Nationals at cota and my minimum weight was 3450. I weigh 230 and 90 lbs for fuel, so my ACR weighed 3100 even with passenger seat out and a 2 lb lithium battery, and Forgeline/Hoosiers. Probably more like 3100 even as I put a 30 lb pad in there in case the Nasa scales were off.

[Lawineer]

I forget what my ACR weighed, I'll look up some of my old Nasa classing sheets, but I do remember just switching to Forgelines/Hoosiers it dropped over 80 lbs, that's a massive performance increase everywhere. ACR wheels insanely heavy. If Dodge could have built lighter wheels for it, it would have been 1-2 at every track they broke the record at.

Edit: Just found my classing sheet from Nasa Nationals at cota and my minimum weight was 3450. I weigh 230 and 90 lbs for fuel, so my ACR weighed 3100 even with passenger seat out and a 2 lb lithium battery, and Forgeline/Hoosiers. Probably more like 3100 even as I put a 30 lb pad in there in case the Nasa scales were off.

Man, imagine if the ACR was 2800lbs (aluminum frame, lighter wheels, lithium battery). It would have been absolutely insane. It would have been eating up hyper-cars of its time.

[SRT_BluByU]

It already did.. and still does.

[Hawk]

Finally installed the Nth Moto clutch. It was a straightforward installation and the way they number and paint the plates make it very difficult to screw it up. As luck would have it I had a 60 degree weather (that is rare this time of year in New England) gave me the opportunity to test it out. Pedal feel the same except the clutch grab is quicker and the throw is a bit higher than I remember on my stock one. It operated really smooth, it doesn’t feel like any racing clutch I have had in the past. I’m very happy with it and Aron at Nth Moto was fantastic at returning my calls with any questions that I had. It looks like I got lucky on the timing of my old clutch letting go. I lost one of the rivets that hold the springs back and the chuck was like a 45 caliber slug rattling around my bellhousing until is found a safe spot to sit. Nothing but a number of nicks on the inside of the bellhousing. I can only imagine if the slug got into a bad area of the workings what could have happened. After I get some time on it this season I will report back
Thank you to everyone with the help
Dennis

52936
52937
52938

[VENOM-TA]

When it’s time for a clutch, I’ll be going with this..

[ViperGeorge]

I suppose I should ask Aaron but does anyone know why Nth Moto clutches grab so high as compared to OEM?

[ViperNC]

When it’s time for a clutch, I’ll be going with this..

Ditto. Although I hope it is a few years out from now. I haven't had time to get on track in over a year, but hope to soon. Until then just spirited road driving and my stock clutch feels perfect. :drive:

[Nth Moto]

Finally installed the Nth Moto clutch. It was a straightforward installation and the way they number and paint the plates make it very difficult to screw it up. As luck would have it I had a 60 degree weather (that is rare this time of year in New England) gave me the opportunity to test it out. Pedal feel the same except the clutch grab is quicker and the throw is a bit higher than I remember on my stock one. It operated really smooth, it doesn’t feel like any racing clutch I have had in the past. I’m very happy with it and Aron at Nth Moto was fantastic at returning my calls with any questions that I had. It looks like I got lucky on the timing of my old clutch letting go. I lost one of the rivets that hold the springs back and the chuck was like a 45 caliber slug rattling around my bellhousing until is found a safe spot to sit. Nothing but a number of nicks on the inside of the bellhousing. I can only imagine if the slug got into a bad area of the workings what could have happened. After I get some time on it this season I will report back
Thank you to everyone with the help
Dennis


Great job on the install Dennis, and I'm glad you're enjoying it so far! That rivet failure isn't uncommon when the cars are used hard on track, and it's a good thing you caught it early on.


I suppose I should ask Aaron but does anyone know why Nth Moto clutches grab so high as compared to OEM?

That's because waiting for the clutch pedal to make it all the way to the floor to fully release the discs is a sure fire way of damaging transmission synchronizer rings (or worse) with aggressive driving, which many people have experienced with these cars. In the OEM's eyes they are trying to make the clutch as easy as possible to drive for the widest range of people, which makes sense, but it comes at a drawback. If you truly think about it, every person reading this probably is moving their arm to shift the car before their foot makes it to the floor with the clutch pedal - the faster you shift the more exaggerated that can become.

This is also why a large majority of purchasers/owners give us feedback that their "transmission feels so much smoother now with the clutch installed"... which is nothing more than the clutch allowing the synchro's to do their job unencumbered by continual drive torque through the input shaft which is happening nearly all the way to the floor on the OEM clutch.


Ditto. Although I hope it is a few years out from now. I haven't had time to get on track in over a year, but hope to soon. Until then just spirited road driving and my stock clutch feels perfect. :drive:

Those spirited back roads driving sessions are one of the places our clutch shines so much. Dennis can probably attest to this now per our phone call, how much snappier and responsive the engine is with the massive reduction of rotational mass off the back of the crank. Furthermore, this aids in deceleration also, since the engine decel rate is allowed to be so much greater with that same loss of mass. There's a reason professional motorsports clutches side to smaller/lighter in tradeoff for drivability and longevity since there is so much area for improvement in the performance dynamic of the car.

[phantomapollyon]

Finally installed the Nth Moto clutch. It was a straightforward installation and the way they number and paint the plates make it very difficult to screw it up. As luck would have it I had a 60 degree weather (that is rare this time of year in New England) gave me the opportunity to test it out. Pedal feel the same except the clutch grab is quicker and the throw is a bit higher than I remember on my stock one. It operated really smooth, it doesn’t feel like any racing clutch I have had in the past. I’m very happy with it and Aron at Nth Moto was fantastic at returning my calls with any questions that I had. It looks like I got lucky on the timing of my old clutch letting go. I lost one of the rivets that hold the springs back and the chuck was like a 45 caliber slug rattling around my bellhousing until is found a safe spot to sit. Nothing but a number of nicks on the inside of the bellhousing. I can only imagine if the slug got into a bad area of the workings what could have happened. After I get some time on it this season I will report back
Thank you to everyone with the help
Dennis


Glad you're enjoying it, definitely money well spent.

[ViperGeorge]

Great job on the install Dennis, and I'm glad you're enjoying it so far! That rivet failure isn't uncommon when the cars are used hard on track, and it's a good thing you caught it early on.



That's because waiting for the clutch pedal to make it all the way to the floor to fully release the discs is a sure fire way of damaging transmission synchronizer rings (or worse) with aggressive driving, which many people have experienced with these cars. In the OEM's eyes they are trying to make the clutch as easy as possible to drive for the widest range of people, which makes sense, but it comes at a drawback. If you truly think about it, every person reading this probably is moving their arm to shift the car before their foot makes it to the floor with the clutch pedal - the faster you shift the more exaggerated that can become.

This is also why a large majority of purchasers/owners give us feedback that their "transmission feels so much smoother now with the clutch installed"... which is nothing more than the clutch allowing the synchro's to do their job unencumbered by continual drive torque through the input shaft which is happening nearly all the way to the floor on the OEM clutch.



Those spirited back roads driving sessions are one of the places our clutch shines so much. Dennis can probably attest to this now per our phone call, how much snappier and responsive the engine is with the massive reduction of rotational mass off the back of the crank. Furthermore, this aids in deceleration also, since the engine decel rate is allowed to be so much greater with that same loss of mass. There's a reason professional motorsports clutches side to smaller/lighter in tradeoff for drivability and longevity since there is so much area for improvement in the performance dynamic of the car.

That makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for clearing that up. The clutch is awesome by the way.