Petition on Parts being sent today

[ViperGeorge]

Mr. Timothy Kuniskis
CEO Dodge Brands Stellantis
1301 S Rochester Rd
Rochester Hills, MI 48307

October 18, 2022

Reference: Parts for Dodge Vipers

Dear Mr. Kuniskis,

I have been a proud owner of Dodge Vipers since 1999 when I bought my first one, a 1998 RT/10. That car converted me from a loyal Ford customer to a Chrysler customer (now Stellantis). I have owned eight Vipers in total and still own three, a 2008 Convertible, a 2014 GTS and a 2017 ACR-Extreme. In addition, I own a 2021 Grand Cherokee SRT, a 2015 Wrangler Rubicon, and a 2017 Ram 1500. I also bought my son a 2021 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk. Since 1999 I have owned countless Stellantis vehicles, all as a result of owning my first Viper.

Many Viper owners are similar to me in that they own multiple Stellantis vehicles. We know that the Viper was not a high production car for Dodge but it was expensive in its day. In the last couple of years parts for our beloved cars have become scarce as Dodge has seen fit to discontinue many parts or make others in such small numbers that they are for all intents unavailable.

Other parts that are still “available” are often on back order for many, many months. Window regulators for 2003-2017 Vipers were unavailable for over a year and have just recently become available again. The regulators are a particularly weak component and a Viper often requires new ones (I’ve had to replace two on my current Vipers). Several owners have had to park their Vipers because they could not get replacement regulators for a malfunctioning window.

Still other parts like windshields are hard to find and often are damaged when received. Some parts have been discontinued – Hoods, ACR side sills, control arm bushings, ball joints, Aero, etc. For a halo car that was produced as recently as 2017 we Viper owners find this challenging. Some of us have become afraid to drive our cars given that a small problem or minor accident could result in the car being undriveable or at least unfixable.

Attached is a petition signed by many Viper owners requesting that Dodge make parts available for the Dodge Viper. This petition was only circulated on the Viper Owners Association forum and reached only a fraction of Viper owners. The number of owners with concern about parts is far larger than the number that has signed the petition.

Since the Viper was a halo car for Dodge we feel it is important to maintain good customer relations with its owners by making parts more readily accessible. These Viper owners are probably Stellantis’ most loyal and valuable customers. Simply driving a Viper to the gas station results in a crowd of people asking about the car. Telling them it is a Dodge goes a long way in increasing the brand awareness for Dodge.

We hope that you will take action to make more parts available.

Respectfully submitted,




George xxxxxx

[VENOM-TA]

Excellent

[CarbonDan]

I would sign this. My 2017 ACR-E had a flaw in the carbon fiber diffuser that was determined by the local dodge dealership to be a factory defect and that the replacement would be covered under warranty. They submit an order for the part. That was June 2020. The part is not available and will not be made again. If I wasn't handy with carbon fiber repair myself, my ACR-e would have been parked for 2.5 years now and unusable.

[13COBRA]

I would sign this. My 2017 ACR-E had a flaw in the carbon fiber diffuser that was determined by the local dodge dealership to be a factory defect and that the replacement would be covered under warranty. They submit an order for the part. That was June 2020. The part is not available and will not be made again. If I wasn't handy with carbon fiber repair myself, my ACR-e would have been parked for 2.5 years now and unusable.

A flaw in the carbon fiber, probably under the clearcoat, would have rendered the vehicle unusable for 2.5 years? LOL

[ViperGeorge]

I would sign this. My 2017 ACR-E had a flaw in the carbon fiber diffuser that was determined by the local dodge dealership to be a factory defect and that the replacement would be covered under warranty. They submit an order for the part. That was June 2020. The part is not available and will not be made again. If I wasn't handy with carbon fiber repair myself, my ACR-e would have been parked for 2.5 years now and unusable.

I left the petition up for weeks and it was FedEx'd today to Tim Kuniskis. If you didn't sign it, it is now too late. I still think we have sufficient signatures to get his attention though.

[PkB2014]

Thanks ViperGeorge!!

[J TNT]

I’d be interested in his response ……

[ViperGeorge]

I’d be interested in his response ……

I will certainly let everyone know what I hear. He will receive the petition via FedEx tomorrow, Thursday, October 20th. I'm sure his assistant will probably send it to the parts manager but hopefully he/she will show it to Tim first.

[Patentlaw]

https://youtu.be/7DpMwDgxC-I

[ViperGeorge]

https://youtu.be/7DpMwDgxC-I

One of my very favorite movies.

[StrokerAce]

A flaw in the carbon fiber, probably under the clearcoat, would have rendered the vehicle unusable for 2.5 years? LOL

I get where you're going with this but a warranty item that they won't replace is the same issue to me. No matter the visual/cosmetic/mechanical/electrical defect that it may be.

[13COBRA]

I get where you're going with this but a warranty item that they won't replace is the same issue to me. No matter the visual/cosmetic/mechanical/electrical defect that it may be.

So if you had a warrantable clearcoat defect on the carbon fiber, you wouldn't drive that car until it's fixed? Give me a break.


I think someone will reply to the petition, but I would be shocked if the reply was anything more than a bureaucratic thank you for your continued support of the brand, and a short explanation why they are unable/unwilling to mass produce parts for a very limited built vehicle, that hasn't been produced in 6 model years.

[ViperGeorge]

So if you had a warrantable clearcoat defect on the carbon fiber, you wouldn't drive that car until it's fixed? Give me a break.


I think someone will reply to the petition, but I would be shocked if the reply was anything more than a bureaucratic thank you for your continued support of the brand, and a short explanation why they are unable/unwilling to mass produce parts for a very limited built vehicle, that hasn't been produced in 6 model years.

You maybe correct but when I submitted a petition (signed by 200 Viper owners) to object to Dodge's potential sale of the Viper Platform/Brand in 2008 or 9 I received a call from a higher up in Marketing. He thanked me for sending in the petition and that it was being circulated to all the senior executives. He told me that it would likely make a difference in their decision. They never did sell the platform so maybe the petition did have some effect. We shall see about this one.

[13COBRA]

You maybe correct but when I submitted a petition (signed by 200 Viper owners) to object to Dodge's potential sale of the Viper Platform/Brand in 2008 or 9 I received a call from a higher up in Marketing. He thanked me for sending in the petition and that it was being circulated to all the senior executives. He told me that it would likely make a difference in their decision. They never did sell the platform so maybe the petition did have some effect. We shall see about this one.

I hope you're right George!

The difference is, now Dodge is owned by Stellantis, that couldn't care less about an old platform.

[StrokerAce]

So if you had a warrantable clearcoat defect on the carbon fiber, you wouldn't drive that car until it's fixed? Give me a break.


I think someone will reply to the petition, but I would be shocked if the reply was anything more than a bureaucratic thank you for your continued support of the brand, and a short explanation why they are unable/unwilling to mass produce parts for a very limited built vehicle, that hasn't been produced in 6 model years.

I didn't say I wouldn't drive it. I said I see the issues as the same basic slap in the face. The fact that I would drive it is inconsequential when considering that I paid for something with a warranty and that warranty is essentially garbage. I paid for it and unfortunately the obligation of the manufacturer is not being upheld.

I agree that I don't think this will go very far but I am crossing my fingers.

[13COBRA]

I didn't say I wouldn't drive it. I said I see the issues as the same basic slap in the face. The fact that I would drive it is inconsequential when considering that I paid for something with a warranty and that warranty is essentially garbage. I paid for it and unfortunately the obligation of the manufacturer is not being upheld.

I agree that I don't think this will go very far but I am crossing my fingers.

Sorry, I thought you were CarbonDan/the person who said it made their car inoperable hahaha

As far as the warranty goes, the powertrain was a 5yr/60k.

If you're talking about your extended service agreement, that's cancellable at any point for a prorated refund.

[ViperGeorge]

I hope you're right George!

The difference is, now Dodge is owned by Stellantis, that couldn't care less about an old platform.

The key message though is that we as Viper owners typically own multiple Stellantis vehicles. In my case I own 7. Wayne and D'Ann own probably close to 100. Most of the members of our region own several as well. I don't think Mr. Kuniskis and the rest of leadership really want to piss off some of their best and most loyal customers. If they do then they really are pretty stupid. Much easier to keep an existing customer than find a new one.

[13COBRA]

The key message though is that we as Viper owners typically own multiple Stellantis vehicles. In my case I own 7. Wayne and D'Ann own probably close to 100. Most of the members of our region own several as well. I don't think Mr. Kuniskis and the rest of leadership really want to piss off some of their best and most loyal customers. If they do then they really are pretty stupid. Much easier to keep an existing customer than find a new one.

I 100% agree with you, and think it's important.

But take Wayne and D'Ann for example. Remove all of their pre-Stellantis vehicles... how many Stellantis vehicles that are current or have lines being built in the future do they own?

[ViperGeorge]

I 100% agree with you, and think it's important.

But take Wayne and D'Ann for example. Remove all of their pre-Stellantis vehicles... how many Stellantis vehicles that are current or have lines being built in the future do they own?

Off hand I don't know the answer. I know Wayne did have a Trackhawk but not sure what else. I don't think pre vs. post Stellantis matters. It is more about the specific brands that one is loyal to. How many of us own Jeeps and will continue to buy them, or Rams, or Challengers, etc. My wife and I have bought Grand Cherokees when it was just Chrysler, then again when it was FCA, and now that is Stellantis. There are no vehicles that are branded Stellantis but they own all the sub-brands.

In any event, OEM parts for pre-Stellantis vehicles must be bought from Stellantis. Service is also often performed by Stellantis dealers so they do have a revenue stream from pre-Stellantis vehicles.

[13COBRA]

Off hand I don't know the answer. I know Wayne did have a Trackhawk but not sure what else. I don't think pre vs. post Stellantis matters. It is more about the specific brands that one is loyal to. How many of us own Jeeps and will continue to buy them, or Rams, or Challengers, etc. My wife and I have bought Grand Cherokees when it was just Chrysler, then again when it was FCA, and now that is Stellantis. There are no vehicles that are branded Stellantis but they own all the sub-brands.

In any event, OEM parts for pre-Stellantis vehicles must be bought from Stellantis. Service is also often performed by Stellantis dealers so they do have a revenue stream from pre-Stellantis vehicles.

I hope you're right George. I will be shocked though, but again, you don't get anything if you don't ask.

[StrokerAce]

Sorry, I thought you were CarbonDan/the person who said it made their car inoperable hahaha

As far as the warranty goes, the powertrain was a 5yr/60k.

If you're talking about your extended service agreement, that's cancellable at any point for a prorated refund.

Absolutely. But that's like "Pay us money in hopes that we have anything and everything that you need. If you don't have issues, we're all good, if not....well, cancel it for a prorated amount." lol

[13COBRA]

Absolutely. But that's like "Pay us money in hopes that we have anything and everything that you need. If you don't have issues, we're all good, if not....well, cancel it for a prorated amount." lol

I hear you...but just so everyone is clear, OEMs have nothing forcing them to produce parts, etc that will be repaired/replaced under extended service agreements. They do under their warranty, but not an extended service agreement.

[Gen5snake]

Thanks for making the petition happen. Greatly appreciated!

[ViperGeorge]

Windshields currently unavailable 68206849AA
Hoods of any style are discontinued. I can't find part numbers for them though.
Right side ACR side sill currently unavailable 68253194AA (left appears to be available)
Left and right window regulators were unavailable for a year and only just became available again left 4865611AI right 4865610AI

Having a part as important as the window regulator being unavailable for a year is not acceptable. Having windshields unavailable for any period of time is also unacceptable. Most states won't pass a car at inspection time with a cracked windshield.

[13COBRA]

Windshields currently unavailable 68206849AA
Hoods of any style are discontinued. I can't find part numbers for them though.
Right side ACR side sill currently unavailable 68253194AA (left appears to be available)

The windshield situation is interesting. There are plenty of aftermarket companies that custom make windshields though.

As far as the hoods go, for what they charged for a hood, you'd be better off buying one from Nordan Composites.

[ViperGeorge]

The windshield situation is interesting. There are plenty of aftermarket companies that custom make windshields though.

As far as the hoods go, for what they charged for a hood, you'd be better off buying one from Nordan Composites.

I've looked at their website but it doesn't list any products that they make. Do you know for sure they make hoods? One thing to remember about OEM hoods is that they must pass collision tests. Dodge once made some hoods for the Gen 4 but they were too stiff. In a front end collision they would not crumple but instead had the potential to pass through the windshield and decapitate the occupant. The hoods failed collision tests so Dodge did not sell them. Hoods are very important components in front end collisions.

[13COBRA]

I've looked at their website but it doesn't list any products that they make. Do you know for sure they make hoods? One thing to remember about OEM hoods is that they must pass collision tests. Dodge once made some hoods for the Gen 4 but they were too stiff. In a front end collision they would not crumple but instead had the potential to pass through the windshield and decapitate the occupant. The hoods failed collision tests so Dodge did not sell them. Hoods are very important components in front end collisions.

They make out of carbon fiber...so it probably wouldn't crumple. I know they do make the hoods though. He told me he could make anything, as long as he had an original to make a mold off of.

I imagine a carbon fiber hood, unless reinforced with aluminum or another metal, wouldn't pass crash testing.

I have 0 issues running his stuff on the front of my VCC though :)

[ViperGeorge]

They make out of carbon fiber...so it probably wouldn't crumple. I know they do make the hoods though. He told me he could make anything, as long as he had an original to make a mold off of.

I imagine a carbon fiber hood, unless reinforced with aluminum or another metal, wouldn't pass crash testing.

I have 0 issues running his stuff on the front of my VCC though :)

The Gen 5 OEM hoods are Carbon Fiber.

[13COBRA]

The Gen 5 OEM hoods are Carbon Fiber.

Correct, but aren't they reinforced with something?

[ClayR]

As someone who tracks an ACR-E, if i ever hit anything, the car is more or less totaled. I am waiting on the ACR-E rear diffuser for my ACR-E tribute build and I have had an extra key on order since March. It’s a f ing joke. I have a C8 Z06 and a GT3RS coming and will probably out the ACR-E up in a few years because the likelihood of them caring is going to be ZERO. Now we know why so many guys didn’t drive their Vipers, they knew we couldn’t get parts!

[ViperGeorge]

Correct, but aren't they reinforced with something?

Not that I have noticed.

[ACR08]

I haven't been on the form for a while and therefore, didn't see this petition. Thank you for doing this.

[mjorgensen]

Correct, but aren't they reinforced with something?

I believe they have to be engineered and tested to have a crush zone so the hood doesn't come into the passenger compartment, that is where a lot the cost comes from in development that an aftermarket one wouldn't.

[13COBRA]

I believe they have to be engineered and tested to have a crush zone so the hood doesn't come into the passenger compartment, that is where a lot the cost comes from in development that an aftermarket one wouldn't.

Got it. Makes sense!

I guess I'm not old enough to really worry about that side of things yet.

[Lawineer]

They make out of carbon fiber...so it probably wouldn't crumple. I know they do make the hoods though. He told me he could make anything, as long as he had an original to make a mold off of.

I imagine a carbon fiber hood, unless reinforced with aluminum or another metal, wouldn't pass crash testing.

I have 0 issues running his stuff on the front of my VCC though :)

I dont think there is a "hood integrity" requirement. They're literally designed to crumple.

[13COBRA]

I dont think there is a "hood integrity" requirement. They're literally designed to crumple.

I'm not sure one way or another.

I just know I've purchased parts from them in the past, and you wouldn't know they didn't come from the OEM.

[ViperGeorge]

I dont think there is a "hood integrity" requirement. They're literally designed to crumple.

The problem is not whether they crumple, the problem is if they don't. If they are too stiff the hood might not crumple and instead go through the windshield.

[Bruce H.]

George,

Have you had any response from Tim yet?

I spoke to my contact today and expect to hear back soon on the list I provided to him.

Bruce

[ViperGeorge]

George,

Have you had any response from Tim yet?

I spoke to my contact today and expect to hear back soon on the list I provided to him.

Bruce

Not yet, but then again I am travelling so if they did respond to my home I would not have seen it yet.