What are the true final answers about OIL

[Aevus]

I think I heard every possible answers over the years.

What is the truth, exactly?

Two simple questions:


1. How much Oil overfill is safe and desirable?

I heard everything from 9.5 quarts to 12 quarts total... How much is too much? (touches the crank and starts foaming)



2. What type of oil, and more specifically high levels of zinc, ZDDP, other additives... or not ?

Is the Z-Rod from Amsoil (among others) a benefit for the Viper engine... or not?


Thanks in advance for the inputs

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

I think I heard every possible answers over the years.

What is the truth, exactly?

Two simple questions:


1. How much Oil overfill is safe and desirable?

I heard everything from 9.5 quarts to 12 quarts total... How much is too much? (touches the crank and starts foaming)



2. What type of oil, and more specifically high levels of zinc, ZDDP, other additives... or not ?

Is the Z-Rod from Amsoil (among others) a benefit for the Viper engine... or not?


Thanks in advance for the inputs

The entire oil deal can be confusing no doubt. How much? what type, application, etc. Especially these days with big oil mfg getting hammered to make formulas that are more "environmentally friendly" which is a joke in itself when you look at the final outcome. Poor quality engine oil = more blown engines in the landfill.
Here is what we do and why.
1. Viper with a factory oil pan add one extra qt of oil. This is a tried and true method used for decades on all types of engines that suffer from oil starvation. The extra qt is not a cure its more like a quick fix that works for viper run at open track days and limited competition. Crank foaming the oil is not a significant problem with one extra qt.
2. Type of oil. Stay away from any off the shelf gasoline engine oils. The gasoline engine oils in the US especially are no longer designed to work with any type of high performance engines. You have 2 options when it comes to oils. 1. run a racing oil designed for racing applications; Not cheap and some of the oil weights may not work with your application. We use maxima oils for all our racecars and more extreme track / street cars and just about any engine that will be used for racing. Option 2. Use an off the shelf synthetic diesel engine oil and use an additive with ZDDP. The diesel oils are designed to work with much higher engine loads, and high temperatures. They are also much cheaper then the specific race oils and readily available at most auto parts stores or online.
So of course as always with all good things there's a hitch. The race oils and Diesel engine oils have much higher "zinc" content. High performance engines need " zinc". Problem with "zinc" ( ZDDP) is it small amounts are burnt in the combustion chamber and exhausted. Zinc erodes the effectiveness of the platinum in the catalytic converter; This will cause the service life of the cat to be shortened. Shorter service life of the cat is application driven. Track viper where the cats are exposed to prolonged high temps maybe you get 10K miles before cats are done. Street viper with limited track use maybe you get 30k miles before cats are done. What we have concluded over the years and its really a simple formula. Cat replacement is much cheaper then engine rebuilds. High quality race oils or diesel oils with ZDDP additive are far safer for operation of high performance cars like vipers.

Hope this helped a little bit

[Dan Cragin]

Great Feedback, that's been my experience as well.

[Aevus]

Excellent. Thanks TKO


edit: we're talking THAT type of diesel engine oil?

https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3467.pdf

say 10w30 or 0w40

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Excellent. Thanks TKO


edit: we're talking THAT type of diesel engine oil?

https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3467.pdf

say 10w30 or 0w40

Yes amsoil diesel is good stuff.

[Aevus]

Just to go deeper in the oil system topic...

I have an upgraded (Prefix) High Volume G-Rotor Oil Pump... That allows more oil to be pumped, therefore theoritically the top of the engine is safe... then I must be sure the oil flows down to the pan quickly enough... Which means the weight (viscosity) must be low enough...especially for Canadian weather...


I'm trying to understand the logic:
if it flows down ''too fast'', risk of foaming (pan overfilled + higher rpm) and top section of the engine in starvation.
If it flows to slowly, the crankshaft's bearing will suffer from oil starvation.

Am I right ? Or the bottleneck is elsewhere?

Did some research on the Amsoil site and viscosity runs from about 10.5 to 15 @ 100 deg C and about 70-80 @ 40 deg C, with both Diesel/Gas 10w30 and also 0w40 or even 5w30. Again: fall and spring in Canada is pretty cold.

[Aevus]

Yes amsoil diesel is good stuff.

Ok, noted.

What I'm a little afraid of, is the possibility that boosted zinc oils are just adding few seconds of life engine, when actually the root of the problem is elsewhere in the oil system. I blew my first Viper motor on the track because of starvation (sticky tires, ACR sway bars, coilovers... and no swing arm oil pan = recipe for disaster) and I think it was a matter of less than 10 seconds of starvation that caused the catastrophic damage.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Ok, noted.

What I'm a little afraid of, is the possibility that boosted zinc oils are just adding few seconds of life engine, when actually the root of the problem is elsewhere in the oil system. I blew my first Viper motor on the track because of starvation (sticky tires, ACR sway bars, coilovers... and no swing arm oil pan = recipe for disaster) and I think it was a matter of less than 10 seconds of starvation that caused the catastrophic damage.

Yes your correct. There is no oil that will save your engine if it you have an oil starvation problem. Under load and at speed it only takes 1-2 seconds loss of oil pressure to cause engine damage. There are few thing you can do to either decrease the possibility of oil starvation or eliminate it. 1. cheap and easy add and extra qt of oil. This is not cure but it does help alot. 2. dry sump system not cheap but it does cure the oil starvation problem. 3. Goto solid motor instead of hydraulic. Solid motor makes the engine oiling system more efficient. For our customers who track their vipers regularly we install one of our dry sump systems and we have Kevin at exotic engines build us de stroked and solid engines. Definitely not the cheap way to go but in the the long its less expensive.

[Aevus]

1-2 seconds... a blink of an eye

wow

and what about Accusump?

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

1-2 seconds... a blink of an eye

wow

and what about Accusump?

Accusumps are ok they do work. The problems with them is you have to remember to turn them on. The electronic valve they offer now does help. Finding space in a viper to mount them is difficult and you always hope they are working correctly there is no real way to make sure they are effective when you need them.
Accusumps came around because of race classes where you weren't allowed to use a dry sump system; They were trying to keep costs down. I think most of the classes the accusumps where designed for now allow some form of dry sump system.