Gen 1 Paint question

[Darren C]

Hi,

I need to deal with some star craze & micro blisters on the hood of my Viper Red 94 and have a question I hope you experienced guys can answer please

Was the original factory paint in 94 a single coat 2K color or was it a 2 stage base color with a clear coat on top?

Many thanks in advance

[SNKEBIT]

Base/clear.

[GRglasser]

I've worked on my black '94 and my friend's green '95, both are base/clear.

[GRglasser]

Are you intending to wetsand the crazing? Could you post a pic? I wet-sanded a little on the deck lid with nice but far from perfect results. I'm curious if you have the same problem and if you have a better solution.

[Darren C]

Its real bad in the centre of the hood, I plan on grinding down an area about 2 feet square & re glassing it (the cracks are deep) then building back up the surface before paint to stop it returning.

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[Darren C]

To show location of damage.
It was already there when I bought the car, so no idea how it happened, just want to fix it as it really spoils an otherwise very good car

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[SNKEBIT]

Can't used regular fiberglass resin. Not same material. What happens is that the fiberglass resin does not move when it heats up in the sun, etc.. It will break loose.. The hood is SMC composite, so be sure you use a SMC resin..

[GRglasser]

I'd love to see progress pics as you tackle it!

[Darren C]

Thanks for the quality information guys.
I'll let you know how I get on.

[Darren C]

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Bondo 1/4" of it!

That's what's cracking in the center of the hood

- - - Updated - - -

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Gonna have to dig it all out

[GTS Dean]

I believe that quite a few of the mid-year '93 model Gen 1 hoods that were rejected at the factory may have ended up in the replacement parts inventory system. I seem to recall that they had a lot of body filler on them. Maybe yours has been replaced with one sometime in the past.

[Darren C]

The whole surface appears to have 1/4" of Bondo, slowly & VERY carefully taking it all down to the original panel, there's previous tool marks under here
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[Darren C]

Thats a lot of Bondo

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But now I'm down to the original SMC with just the factory first fill of the Mould Join lines visible in the panel

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It looks like all the heavy Bondo was actually added during manufacture as it was straight onto the SMC with no paint or primer below so the story of mid 93 manufacturing issues appears true!
Just got to remove the remaining paint around the two depressions now & start to prepare for paint. I really don't understand why they put so much bondo over the whole hood as now its removed the surface is smooth & true????
I'm guessing the different thermal expansion of the Hood & 1/2" of Bondo caused all those cracks, as none of the cracks go into the SMC or the mould joints.

[GTS Dean]

Behold - the largest single piece of moulded bodywork on any automobile in the world - up to that time.

[lisekplx]

Good work man, can’t wait to see the finished product .

[Darren C]

Quick update,
The hood was baked in the oven twice to see if anything was going to "pop" and all is good

Next stage was a light thinned down primer coat (which will be sanded back after) just to see if there's any cracks I've not noticed (thinned paint highlights cracks)

All good too, so I can now progress to a light fill of the few remaining little defects (nothing like the 1/2" Bondo, I'm guessing barely a 1/16th in small areas is required)

Whilst all this was baking and drying I've started on the Passenger Rocker panel. It was damaged by the shipping company (which made me mad) but hey they wont paid up so I gotta fix it myself, even though they accept it was done on their truck, have witnesses & photos of it happening (figure that out!)
Photo of the damage winching it on the shippers truck
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Removed panel off the car, showing full length gouge and ripped out cooling slots
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I dressed down the gouge and reshaped the panel using hammers & dollies
Then switched my MIG welder over to aluminium and with a heatsink backing plate I welded back in the torn out pieces
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And from reverse so you can see the added aluminium penetrated right through the panel
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Last job was to file down the welds externally to make a neat repair of the missing torn metal ready for paint preparation
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[Viper98]

Excellent!!!
I love this thread.
Thx for the update.

These kinds of threads are so cool.

Keep up the great work!

[GTS Dean]

British cottage industry craftsmanship FTW.

[Fatboy 18]

Brilliant work Darren :dude3:

[GRglasser]

Very interesting! I love all the detailed pics. I'm baffled why the factory would use so much bondo if the hood shape was correct.

[Darren C]

Before the weekend I gave the hood a coat of thinned down primer as a crack test (paint highlights any cracks) and all is good, so this evening we're starting with a small amount of blocking to see where I need to add the smallest amount of filler

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I found some aluminium corrosion on the Rocker/Sill panel top and side (which looked like a little bubble area under the paint) Sanding back it was corrosion and very perforated, working on it, it quickly became two holes about 3/16 diameter give or take. So Using the same method as the underside repair, I aluminium welded the holes up to fill the holes & pool welded the surface to fill the pitting before sanding back the surface flush. Not sure how well the picture below will show the detail as its an almost invisible repair? Its at about 6 to 8 o'clock in the lower half of the bare aluminium and just slightly a different color as my weld rod isn't exactly like the panel metal

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Here it is again marked up to show the position of the new aluminium welded hole repair

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Then I also gave the Rocker/Sill cover a prime & its hardened good over the weekend

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[ViperSRT]

Great work. Back in 1996 give or take Dodge provided replacement sills to eliminate the sill corrosion for all RT/10 at no cost. Guess everyone didn't take them up on it.

[GTS Dean]

My GTS got new rocker covers due to oxidation/corrosion under warranty.

[ViperSRT]

My GTS got new rocker covers due to oxidation/corrosion under warranty.

Now that I think about it the timing for that customer satisfaction recall was around 1998, which then would have included GTS as well. Our local club spread the news and many of us had the work done at the same time and same place.

[My98RT10]

Now that I think about it the timing for that customer satisfaction recall was around 1998, which then would have included GTS as well. Our local club spread the news and many of us had the work done at the same time and same place.

That is interesting. I am wondering, what they have changed and if from 1998 onwards these changes were applied to the production, too?

[Darren C]

Great Question
As an engineer I'm guessing that they added a gasket or insulation between the Aluminium rocker/sill panel & the Stainless Steel Heat Shield
The Stainless heat shield is pop riveted to the Aluminium panel, and absolute disaster & schoolboy error in manufacture. Due to the two materials being at either ends of the galvanic table the stainless will rot the Aluminium with vengeance if it get the slightest bit wet. Combine this with the poor dusting of black paint on the reverse of the panel, any place the stainless heat shield touches the back of the Aluminium panel, vibrates or rubs it will rot the aluminium.
Looking at my rocker/sill, the corrosion holes all align to these contact points with the heatshield.
Interesting on the recall, mines a one owner California car so maybe the original owner didn't take up the offer as at the time it was okay, but now 27 yrs late I'm picking up the bill

[Darren C]

Okay, as a Viper virgin, can anyone of you experienced guys tell me if this foil sticker is original on the inside of my 94 hood please?

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It looks to have been cut out really badly with jagged scissor edges & stuck down on the surface with lumps & creases

I have tried a google search and seen a similar used hood for sale with this same aluminium foil sticker but equally lots of images of hoods open without it?

I'm planning on repainting the inside of the hood during the current repairs and want to put things back to stock

Thanks

[GTS Dean]

My '93 had that foil shield in the same place. I think perhaps in '95 they went to the embossed Sneaky Pete hood pad, but it may have been '96.

[Darren C]

Thanks Dean.

Update on the hood & rocker/sill cover

Repairs all done with minimum material

Now in primer & just finished flatting the two panels

Here's how the hood looks after wetting over to check for any defects in reflections

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and the rocker/sill

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I also had a flat tire after 4 weeks it would go down?
Took me a while to find it.
The car had its original tires dated 93 on it and the two rears got changed the month before I bought the car in LA
The leak was very small on the rim
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Turned out to be tire lever damage caused by the shop which is really annoying
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Got the tire removed & repaired the damage & repainted the tire bead seat

[Darren C]

Repaired wheel damage, just waiting for paint to harden & I'll get the tire back on

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[Fatboy 18]

Blimey, you're not having much luck with the car are you :(

Great work, but I bet you didn't plan to have to do all this?

[GRglasser]

I have the same problem on my rockers. I was wondering how to fix it, sounds like I need to start learning to weld aluminum. Are you going to maintain the two-tone on the rockers, black satin (sealer?) and gloss paint? If so, how do you intend to mask the black for body color? Are their dyes one can buy? On my car, the previous painter just painted the whole rocker the same color, and I want to return it to original.

[Darren C]

Good question, yes aluminium welding is the only real way to sort out the corrosion by either drilling through & welding back up or welding in a patch piece. I plan on keeping the rockers stock, so tonight it got painted black as a whole (just like factory) and I will then mask the muffler area, lay a base coat & go color & clear.

Now the hood has been repaired and in primer, this evening I've repainted the underside with a "Raptor" product. The original paint was flaking off so its been sanded back & prepared like the top of the hood before primer then raptor coat

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I also plan on replacing the foil heatshield but having difficulty finding a replacement foil that looks like Factory that is big enough to make a new one without a join line.

[Darren C]

You can just see in my hood pictures above, the front facia.
This was scratched pretty bad on the underside from road rash, so while I'm doing the other parts I thought what the heck, I'll do the facia too
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Not wanting to add too much product onto this (its never been painted since new) I've only repaired & primed the lower section where the damage is.

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Once flatted & prepared I'll key the rest & color paint as a whole with the other parts for a good color match (that the plan anyway)

[Lunchbox]

Very impressive work! Keep the pics coming!

[GRglasser]

I'd love to see how you masked the rockers if you got a pic. Looking forward to seeing the completed product! I've thoroughly enjoyed keeping with this thread.

[Darren C]

No problem I'll post a picture of the Rocker panel tomorrow when I mask it up.

Today the final color & clearcoat got applied onto the last flatted primer
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[Darren C]

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The hood is currently baking in the oven & later this week I plan to flat & polish it to a mirror glass finish. What you see in the pictures is just out the gun, so she'll shine even more !

[My98RT10]

Seems like it will come out perfectly! Top notch work, congrats!

[98RedGTS]

Looks great. I've got an 85 corvette that could use a respray as one of the last parts of my restoration. When should I drop it off :-)

[Darren C]

Drop the Corvette off anytime!

Today its been flat & polish time for the hood after a couple of days drying.

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The whole hood was flatted with 1200 wet & dry to level out the gun finish and in the image above you can see closest the flatted area & farthest away the start of the polishing

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Same angle shot but after polishing

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Overview, trying to catch the depth of shine in the booth with an iphone isn't easy

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Turned out okay, but to be honest I'm going to carry on polishing on a couple of little areas to get it perfect

[lisekplx]

Awesome work man, all that hard work is paying off. I need to repaint my side sill covers. What type of intake/exhaust setup are you running in the paint booth ?

[GTS Dean]

After all that amazing work - I just hope the paint matches!:lol2:

[ullearn]

Darren clearly you are a Professional, great quality work!

[My98RT10]

Fantastic results! But won't you go crazy when driving it again on the road with such perfect paint? ;-)

[Darren C]

Haha, yeah the first stone chip is going to really hurt, but hey, you gotta drive the thing.

Anyway, today I started to build up the car & got the Hood & front facia back on

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It was the first chance to see how good the color match really was. I'd done like 12 spray out cards with different coat numbers and base colors (white, grey, black) just to check for the best match. its under artificial light in these pictures which shows any mis-match real easy on Red paint

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I think its an almost perfect match, which was a big relief!

[Darren C]

One great test that the paintless dent & dink guys do is use a stripe board to check reflections in a panel to see if they've got a dent fixed.
We have a roller shutter door that reflects these lines so its a great test of the repairs on the hood after digging out all that bondo.
zoom in & check out those reflection contour lines over the hood repairs, I think I got a good result.
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Got a little more polishing to do on the front facia (its too flexible to polish effectively off the car) then finish the Rocker cover & we're done

[Darren C]

I have the same problem on my rockers. I was wondering how to fix it, sounds like I need to start learning to weld aluminum. Are you going to maintain the two-tone on the rockers, black satin (sealer?) and gloss paint? If so, how do you intend to mask the black for body color? Are their dyes one can buy? On my car, the previous painter just painted the whole rocker the same color, and I want to return it to original.

The Rockers were painted Satin Black over the primer (like Factory)
Then I used a fine line tape to mark the shape & edge to body color

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The satin black was fully masked off then the remainder was sanded with wet & dry to key the surface before painting Red

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[Darren C]

Then after un masking and a couple of days for the paint to cure, the red was hand flatted and polished to a mirror finish

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Then I bought some clear stone protective film about 2ft square and made templates of the 3 clear stone guards (using my drivers rocker film as a template, because it was still intact)
Then fitted them with a film solution to slide into place and squeezed out the fluid & air for a neat fix

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All I need to do now is re-rivet the stainless heatshield back onto the inside of the rocker panel & I can get it fitted back on the car

[Viper98]

Such excellent excellent work!!!

Very talented, you are!

[Fatboy 18]

Great work Darren, I just hope that clear film is heat resistant, I put some stone chip clear film on my side sills at the very front edge where stones flick up from the front wheel and it turned black through the heat!

[Darren C]

Such excellent excellent work!!!

Very talented, you are!

Thanks for the kind words. I've been designing and building custom cars since the age of 14, making my own chassis, bodies, interiors, drive trains, suspension...well just about every part of a car you can imagine! I've even written books & made TV on how to do it

I just make a neat front licence plate (compulsory here in UK)
Started with a simple card template, then cut & fold a small piece of aluminium sheet
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Then add a little lightness & strength with a hole saw & dimple die
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[Darren C]

Then a quick prime and paint in Satin Black
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& fit

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Cost about $10 but its all about the satisfaction in making something not buying it

(The car in the background I completely designed and hand made from scratch)

If any of you guys are at Sema this week I've got one of my custom scratch builds being revealed there today. I was supposed to be there but the travel restrictions aren't lifted for entry to the US for another week. Had my flights book & everything. The car was flown out a couple of months back. I'm absolutely gutted I can't be there...

[Darren C]

After re fitting the Passenger Rocker panel it really showed up the Drivers side Rocker
On closer inspection I could see some tiny blistering on it, so I decided to remove it for closer inspection
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Removing the paint around the blister I found quite a bad corrosion hole

Checking it all over I found another 6 or so holes where it had rotted through from the inside out that were hidden under the paint.

The only option was to Aluminium weld them up from the reverse (picture below) The biggest hole I welded a patch in like I did on the Passenger rocker

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Interestingly I found a guys name "Dan" in the original factory paint on the reverse of the Rocker! Anyone found factory worker names on their cars? I know its a thing on some of my other cars where workers wrote messages in the same place behind panels. Looks like a wax crayon was used so the factory black paint didn't cover the writing, as theres no mechanical marks to show it was made after paint

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[GRglasser]

One great test that the paintless dent & dink guys do is use a stripe board to check reflections in a panel to see if they've got a dent fixed.
We have a roller shutter door that reflects these lines so its a great test of the repairs on the hood after digging out all that bondo.
zoom in & check out those reflection contour lines over the hood repairs, I think I got a good result.
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Got a little more polishing to do on the front facia (its too flexible to polish effectively off the car) then finish the Rocker cover & we're done

Awesome! Thank you for sharing.

[Fatboy 18]

Loads of numbers letters and initial's on my viper parts!

[Fatboy 18]

Then a quick prime and paint in Satin Black
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& fit

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Cost about $10 but its all about the satisfaction in making something not buying it

(The car in the background I completely designed and hand made from scratch)

If any of you guys are at Sema this week I've got one of my custom scratch builds being revealed there today. I was supposed to be there but the travel restrictions aren't lifted for entry to the US for another week. Had my flights book & everything. The car was flown out a couple of months back. I'm absolutely gutted I can't be there...

What's that frame for? LOL:smilielol:

[Darren C]

The bracket is so I can fit a front licence plate with a neat stainless "American Car Craft" Viper RT/10 surround/frame Mark.

Following all the issues & crazy prices for two hood side emblems, I thought I should show you how it worked out.

Before taking off my old emblems I made a rubbing with a pencil

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This gave me the position reference for each part of the script because I knew taking the emblem off the hood would result in lots of tiny pieces
Using the rubbing I cut out 2 card templates with a craft knife & razor blade that the parts could drop into to hold them in the correct position as on the hood

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New emblems come on a backing tape, but it wasn't possible to do this while trying to carefully remove them from the car, plus they'd need cleaning up afterwards

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Next the real boring bit was getting off all the old double sided tape carefully by hand so not to damage the parts

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This took about 4 laps of each piece before they were completely free of the old tape

[Darren C]

Next I got me some new high quality 3M double sided auto trim tape, and stuck on all the pieces

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Then very carefully cut out each piece

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Before laying into my templates

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Using the masking tape on the template face I locked the pieces in the template

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[Darren C]

Next job was to mark out the Emblem position on my freshly painted hood using the data in my shop manual

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Then transpose this onto the hood

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Peel off the backing

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line up & apply

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[Darren C]

and the same on the other side

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Apply a little pressure

Then carefully peel of the template

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Both sides in the exact positions

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I'm pleased with the result
It took a little while but in the end I saved my original emblems and it all cost around $10

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[Viper98]

Dude, you ROCK!