Could the 2022 Maserati MC20 unveiled this summer provide the platform for a Gen 6

[Bruce H.]

Our Ontario club will be having an exclusive and detailed look at the pre-production Maserati MC20 at our ONVE 2021 event this weekend, provided by one of our member's that has been evaluating it. He can neither confirm nor deny the possibility that this platform will be used for a Gen 6 Viper, but that seems impossible to ignore.

https://www.caranddriver.com/maserati/mc20

Since Ralph Gilles is head of design for Stellantis for Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Maserati and Fiat, and is a huge Viper supporter, I see this as a natural next step for Dodge to do in order to have a halo car again. The Viper is obviously more popular than ever, with soaring prices well above MSRP for Gen V's that are now out of warranty, I think they might be able to see a business case for one if they're now sitting on a suitable platform, which is where the major investment is. And with Maserati's intention to re-enter racing...I see Ralph Gilles fingerprints all over this!

Some here will say "mid-engine Viper with a V6 twin turbo and an 8 speed DCT...no way", and I say "that's exactly what I'd like to park next to my TA...where do I sign to get one?" That's actually the sweet spot for buyers of modern exotic supercars today, just as the Gen 1-5 was in the past. So for me I'd gladly trade my 911 Turbo with rear engine V6 twin turbo and 7 speed DCT for one!

Feel free to compile a list of questions about this car and I'll try to get them answered this weekend.

Bruce

[Patentlaw]

Interesting concept. Especially when the MC20 fails in sales.

[Lawineer]

Could? Yes.
Will? No. You'd have to be an idiot to dump a ton of money into what would be a modern Viper. If they started today, they'd be lucky to have the car in dealerships in 4 years.

Now, if they were willing to part ways with big engine, V-10 and/or manual, that's another story. I wouldn't really consider that a Viper though. It would be about as much of a competitor to the G5 as the new Shelby Mustang is to the old one. or the new NSX to the old NSX. The entire reason Vipers are going up in value (well, more than other cars- high tides rise all ships) is that it's one of the last remining manual, gas, raw cars.

[Steve M]

Configuration-wise, it would be a Viper in name only.

It'll also never get over the stigma of being a Dodge. That name is not synonymous with exceptional quality or service, which I think most buyers of modern exotic supercars today expect. And to be clear, in my mind, quality and service are inseparable when you are talking about a car in that class; one without the other is a non-starter.

For that reason alone, it will fail.

[viperBase1]

Interesting.. :fpopcorn:

[Viperenvy]

I'd like to get back to off the shelf components, light weight, sexy styling - none of this aero crap, lower volume, lower priced machine.


BUTTTTTTTTT....

Chrysler was a scapy company that had little to lose with a manageable bureaucracy and a Chairman that could hide $50 mill.

Stallantis is a mega conglomerate with everyone afraid to lose and no appetite for risk at any level.

People like Tom Gale on down joined Chrysler because because they weren't GM or Ford with all the money and levels of management. Stellantis is all of that on steroids.

PLUSSSSSSS....

Anything close would be electric - no money being spend on gasoline engines these days.

$.02

[Bruce H.]

Interesting concept. Especially when the MC20 fails in sales.

Let's for a moment allow for the possibility that they actually know what they're doing. They've already acknowledge that sales of the MC20 will be limited, so the goal has to be a combo of brand image and profitability, and sharing the platform investment and image over multiple vehicles and/or brands makes sense.


Could? Yes.
Will? No. You'd have to be an idiot to dump a ton of money into what would be a modern Viper. If they started today, they'd be lucky to have the car in dealerships in 4 years.

Now, if they were willing to part ways with big engine, V-10 and/or manual, that's another story. I wouldn't really consider that a Viper though. It would be about as much of a competitor to the G5 as the new Shelby Mustang is to the old one. or the new NSX to the old NSX. The entire reason Vipers are going up in value (well, more than other cars- high tides rise all ships) is that it's one of the last remining manual, gas, raw cars.

The V10 and large displacements are dead, and new sales are dominated by DCT and autos. Those that want a manual Viper either have or can find one. I'd want my next Viper to have a DCT, and a forced induction for he improved performance they deliver. I love my V10 manual TA, but it's no long the recipe for getting around a race track as fast as possible.


Configuration-wise, it would be a Viper in name only.

It'll also never get over the stigma of being a Dodge. That name is not synonymous with exceptional quality or service, which I think most buyers of modern exotic supercars today expect. And to be clear, in my mind, quality and service are inseparable when you are talking about a car in that class; one without the other is a non-starter.

For that reason alone, it will fail.

The Viper doesn't need to compete in the exotic supercar class. To prove your quality/service theory wrong you need look no further than the Corvette. GM's been getting away without either being particularly good for years!


I'd like to get back to off the shelf components, light weight, sexy styling - none of this aero crap, lower volume, lower priced machine.


BUTTTTTTTTT....

Chrysler was a scapy company that had little to lose with a manageable bureaucracy and a Chairman that could hide $50 mill.

Stallantis is a mega conglomerate with everyone afraid to lose and no appetite for risk at any level.

People like Tom Gale on down joined Chrysler because because they weren't GM or Ford with all the money and levels of management. Stellantis is all of that on steroids.

PLUSSSSSSS....

Anything close would be electric - no money being spend on gasoline engines these days.

$.02

Yet they are launching the MC20 which would have required a massive investment.

I don't know guys, to design and build the all-new MC20 tells me they must be planning to milk it all the way to the bank. Most say the manufacturers are run by the bean counters so I'm not sure how you square this one.

Bruce

[Steve M]

To prove your quality/service theory wrong you need look no further than the Corvette. GM's been getting away without either being particularly good for years!

...at a substantially lower price point than what you are talking about.

The vehicle in question here has an estimated base price of $200k+. For that price, quality and service should be expected. Unless you somehow think Dodge will be able to get that base price point down to around $100k, at which point you may find enough buyers willing to overlook one of the major things that turned a lot of new Viper owners off, unless you were lucky enough to be near one of the big dealers that could actually be trusted.

[ViperNC]

Does this mean its time to sell my Viper since it would potentially no longer be the last generation Viper and once a new Gen 6 arrives previous generation Vipers will lose value?



:lol2:

[Bruce H.]

...at a substantially lower price point than what you are talking about.

The vehicle in question here has an estimated base price of $200k+. For that price, quality and service should be expected. Unless you somehow think Dodge will be able to get that base price point down to around $100k, at which point you may find enough buyers willing to overlook one of the major things that turned a lot of new Viper owners off, unless you were lucky enough to be near one of the big dealers that could actually be trusted.

Base and out the door will surely be much higher than $200k for the MC20, in the same range as other exotic supercars if it's got the performance. We'd be awfully disappointed in what a $100k Dodge version would be in 2022 or beyond. Lots of Gen V GTS were $140k plus back in 2013, worth the money at the time though not enough seemed to get that, a high portion went to first-time cross-over buyers, and they're still worth close to that 8 years later. And I don't believe it's just because it has a V10 and a stick and the last of the last.

A new Gen Viper still won't fit all Viper owners budget, or their idea of what a Viper must be, but a starting price of $150-175k might be more realistic, acceptable to many cross-over buyers once again, and not out of the question I don't think.

I'd never buy any brand of car that didn't have a good proven local dealer service availability, so that would affect whether I'd buy one or not, not how much I'd pay.


Does this mean its time to sell my Viper since it would potentially no longer be the last generation Viper and once a new Gen 6 arrives previous generation Vipers will lose value?



:lol2:

Only if they plan to sell the new one for $100k!

[CNU_Physics]

Compare the MK5 Supra to the new 400Z.
One gets bashed for taking a legendary car and giving it someone's else's DNA with no manuals.
The other receives high praise for sticking to what it is well known for, plus a manual option.

If the next Dodge sports car is going to be a mid engine TT V6, call it something else besides Viper.

[Viper GTS-R]

Just let the Viper name Rest In Peace. Anything they try to do with it at this point will be an embarrassment to the originals. That would be as bad as GM designing a mid engine car and then calling it a Corvette…..:cool:

[Bruce H.]

Just let the Viper name Rest In Peace. Anything they try to do with it at this point will be an embarrassment to the originals. That would be as bad as GM designing a mid engine car and then calling it a Corvette…..:cool:

Hey Ron, it does seem to be working for Corvette, which is a bit of a surprise considering C1-6 owners were nearly throwing themselves off roof tops when they dropped the round rear tail lights for the C7!

Maybe Dodge would just resurrect a different iconic sports car name like, I don't know, fill in the blank________

[J TNT]

Here is a Name from the past that could be used "Dodge Diamante' "
Should not offend anyone as it was so long ago that most have forgotten except for a few of us Hard Core Mopar guys..........lol !
It was based on the new 1970 Challenger , probably to keep cost's down .
It looked better in person ....

49038

[CNU_Physics]

They could keep with the snake theme, just something else. Rattlesnake, Copperhead, Mamba. Names that could tie it to the Viper, without actually calling it a Viper.

[Viper GTS-R]

Cordoba, with rich Corinthian leather interior. :dude3:

[USAFPILOT]

The MC20 is cool, but over priced for what it is. And in no way whatsoever can it carry the Viper name. It is nothing like one.

[Bruce H.]

They could keep with the snake theme, just something else. Rattlesnake, Copperhead, Mamba. Names that could tie it to the Viper, without actually calling it a Viper.

I like your thinking!

[Bruce H.]

The MC20 is cool, but over priced for what it is. And in no way whatsoever can it carry the Viper name. It is nothing like one.

We really don't know much about it's performance at this point, like what time will it lap Laguna Seca or the Ring. That will be the acid test for a whole lot of folks with the coin, and help determine its value among competitors.

[Scott_in_fl]

I surely wouldn't advise Stellantis to take this on. The market is absolutely saturated with sportscars right now with Ferrari scheduled to unveil something like 12 new models in the next 3 years, Lamborghini coming out with a new version of its Huracan (Perf, Evo, STO) and Aventador every 6 months (and replacement in '23), McLaren building as many cars as they can, etc., etc.

And then you've got the electric upstarts with Tesla and its Plaid models and roadster coming, Porsche and its Taycan and upcoming Cayman-looking electric racer, etc., etc.

There are so many choices for a 600ish hp, paddle-shifted sporty two-seater that it boggles the mind just thinking about them all. And then you've got Corvette underpricing everyone and about to start taking names and kicking everyone's ass with a Z06 and ZR1. It's no wonder cars like the new NSX just couldn't make it. And I fear the MC20 will suffer the same fate.

For Dodge to try jumping back into this pool at this time, with their dealer network, they'd be insane.

[Cody's Car Conundrum]

They could keep with the snake theme, just something else. Rattlesnake, Copperhead, Mamba. Names that could tie it to the Viper, without actually calling it a Viper.

I always thought Colubridae sounded kind of exotic. The real snake is venomous like Vipers but, as far as I can find, they aren't directly related. So kind of like the relationship between the Cobra and the Viper. Might be a bit tricky to say upon first glance though.

[ViperNC]

Just getting creative here...

Each car gets a different snake name based upon the trim level. And hidden in a few undisclosed areas of the car are Easter Egg Viper logos from the past.

[AAA96]

Let sleeping dogs lie.

[JD03Cobra]

I had an MC20 driving next to me the other day what looked fully complete with manufacture plates. It was ok visually...If a Viper would go to this platform with a TTV6 I'd rather have a C8Z06.

[SRT_BluByU]

no interested in anything smaller than a v8 - agreed.

[StrokerAce]

Red Belly Racer

[Whiskey]

I surely wouldn't advise Stellantis to take this on. The market is absolutely saturated with sportscars right now with Ferrari scheduled to unveil something like 12 new models in the next 3 years, Lamborghini coming out with a new version of its Huracan (Perf, Evo, STO) and Aventador every 6 months (and replacement in '23), McLaren building as many cars as they can, etc., etc.

And then you've got the electric upstarts with Tesla and its Plaid models and roadster coming, Porsche and its Taycan and upcoming Cayman-looking electric racer, etc., etc.

There are so many choices for a 600ish hp, paddle-shifted sporty two-seater that it boggles the mind just thinking about them all. And then you've got Corvette underpricing everyone and about to start taking names and kicking everyone's ass with a Z06 and ZR1. It's no wonder cars like the new NSX just couldn't make it. And I fear the MC20 will suffer the same fate.

For Dodge to try jumping back into this pool at this time, with their dealer network, they'd be insane.


Dodge should laugh at all of them and say "hold my beer and watch this" As they bring out a new Viper that is RWD hellcat power, aluminum chassis, coming in at 3,000lbs making 900hp. Give it more Downforce than the current ACR and it would be an absolute beast...then gasp give it a 6sp manual optional 8sp ZF Auto standard. And a convertible