Pulling off a stud Need expert advice

[CarbonDan]

Have to pull off several studs and I figured there would be no better group of individuals that were practiced in this art to ask for advice...

Ok all jokes aside, decided to upgrade all my wheel studs to ARPs after snapping 2 front lugs last week, and having several more seize up as I went to remove the wheels yesterday - the only way these ones are coming off is by snapping.

Just curious what tool you guys use push the original studs out of the hub?
I've already got this Lisle 22800 on the way to help with the installing the new studs.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETUD22/


I just hammered out the previous 2, but I know that's abusive to the bearing - already got a new complete hub with bearing delivered to hold as a spare just incase I did some damage to it.
Looking for a more refined way of going about this.
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[Arizona Vipers]

Man that sucks dude!

[Fatboy 18]

You need to remove the Brake caliper and get some cable ties and suspend it from the A arms, remove the disc so that you can get to the Hub. I would not recommend hitting them out with a hammer as the shock can transfer down into the hub knuckle and A arms which are the weak points on a Viper. Best way is to remove the wheel bearing from the Cast aluminium knuckle and press those out in a strong vice or hydraulic press. I use a couple of small strong walled sockets to place over the back of the wheel stud then using the vice tighten until the stud splines pop out of the hub. I have done it on my Gen 2 fitting the longer race wheel studs.

[txA&M08]

You need to remove the Brake caliper and get some cable ties and suspend it from the A arms, remove the disc so that you can get to the Hub. I would not recommend hitting them out with a hammer as the shock can transfer down into the hub knuckle and A arms which are the weak points on a Viper. Best way is to remove the wheel bearing from the Cast aluminium knuckle and press those out in a strong vice or hydraulic press. I use a couple of small strong walled sockets to place over the back of the wheel stud then using the vice tighten until the stud splines pop out of the hub. I have done it on my Gen 2 fitting the longer race wheel studs.

Just to add to this... I removed the hubs and tried to use the cheap 6-ton shop press from Harbor Freight. It wasn't enough. I actually broke the press and returned it.

As far as bracing, like Fatboy mentioned, you need something cylindrical and hollow in the middle (i.e. socket), and I found it needed to be a very specific size.

[Lawineer]

Holy crap, this looks like a whole lot of suck.

[Fatboy 18]

I have a very strong 6" jaw bench Vice, this is a couple of pics to give you the Idea.

This was pressing a new one in
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51337195854_12987edc37_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51336463886_d5b56b0ab4_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51337467350_c7be345a77_z.jpg

You can tape a couple of hex nuts either side of the back of the stud and then place hub in the vice and squeeze it out You can also use a bit of heat on the hub and freeze spray on the stud to help squeeze it out but I don't mean heating the hub up red hot, just a gentle warm around the stud hole with a small propane torch. too much heat and you will melt the grease in the bearing.

[ViperTony]

I used the Mopar stud tool mentioned in the service manual. Worked perfectly.

[Arizona Vipers]

Here are Doug Shelby's instructions for his titanium studs (I run these myself)
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0447/7789/8149/files/DSE_12-20_Dodge_Viper_Titanium_Wheel_Studs_R3.pdf?v=16073 63355

[Jack B]

Some localized heat might help

[13COBRA]

Here are Doug Shelby's instructions for his titanium studs (I run these myself)
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0447/7789/8149/files/DSE_12-20_Dodge_Viper_Titanium_Wheel_Studs_R3.pdf?v=16073 63355

Do you have an extra set you'd sell? I talked to Doug today and he has no intentions of making them again.

[Fatboy 18]

Why not get these https://www.viperpartsusa.com/product/wheel-studs-competition-3in-length/

[darbgnik]

Looks like the tool J-45270 mentioned in Doug's instructions is just the clamp/press portion of most ball joint press tools.

Seeing as how well my ball joint tool worked on old rusted parts, I'd be real confident doing lug studs with it, as long as it fit.

[13COBRA]

Why not get these https://www.viperpartsusa.com/product/wheel-studs-competition-3in-length/

I probably will, but was looking for titanium to go with my titanium lug nuts.

[Fatboy 18]

I probably will, but was looking for titanium to go with my titanium lug nuts.

Try here :)
https://www.mhtitanium.com/titanium-auto-racing-parts/titanium-extended-wheel-stud.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwuvmHBhAxEiwAWAYj-E4gvguJCHtdcLx4tcwqtd_W6F2zYnqY1OvaN-H162vpRDuudakm7RoCRmYQAvD_BwE Will most likely be a special order 1/2-20 thread and open wheel nuts, might want to see if folks are up for a group buy and get a better discount. :)

[ViperSRT]

Beware of titanium on titanium. The coefficient of friction can get very high for unlubricated joints making most of the installation torque go towards rotation instead of stretch.

[13COBRA]

Beware of titanium on titanium. The coefficient of friction can get very high for unlubricated joints making most of the installation torque go towards rotation instead of stretch.

Interesting. I would've assumed (wrongly I suppose) that titanium on titanium was safer than titanium on steel.

[Fatboy 18]

Weather right or wrong, I always use a smear of copper slip grease on my wheel nuts.

You can't beat a bit of Lube on your Nuts :D

[serpent]

Here are Doug Shelby's instructions for his titanium studs (I run these myself)
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0447/7789/8149/files/DSE_12-20_Dodge_Viper_Titanium_Wheel_Studs_R3.pdf?v=16073 63355
Do you use titanium nuts as well? Prob a dumb question since I know you're all aout cutting weight. That reminds me, you did TI springs too right?

[ViperSRT]

Weather right or wrong, I always use a smear of copper slip grease on my wheel nuts.

You can't beat a bit of Lube on your Nuts :D

As long as the applied torque is adjusted accordingly. The torque spec is intended to achieve adequate bolt stretch and clamp load with friction coefficients as intended. Adding lube to a intended dry application will increase the stretch and clamp load, and thus may cause premature failure of the bolt in tensile mode. A full analysis for torsional and tensile is required in order to determine if failure is imminent. As an engineer I would never recommend deviating from the specification unless you have knowledge of an engineered solution in the new situation. For instance a titanium stud would require a different (lower) applied torque to provide the appropriate stretch for titaniums mechanical properties (friction at assembly, modulus of elasticity and tensile strength) without failing. Here is a link to a quick comparison (note tensile strength may differ by specific metallurgy) https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/metals-metal-products/steel-vs-titanium-strength-properties-and-uses/ Also note titanium dry friction coefficient can approach .8 or .9, which mean little of the applied torque will lead to clamp load. Not a good thing.

[Hawk]

I used this tie rod end tool. I did need to file a little off each side of the jaw opening so the end of the stud would clear thru. Crank it tight with a wrench and if it doesn’t move give it a little tap(the nut end of the tool) with a hammer and crank down again. Remove the hub off the car and clamp the hub disk part in a vice to hold it still. To install the new stud put the stud in the hub, get a stack of washers and an open end nut and crank it on until it seats. It helps to hit it with a cordless impact gun to get the spline to engage into the hub before you put the wrench to it. Make sure you use a torque wrench on the lug nuts (107 ft/lbs.) do not use lube or antiseize if you use the full torque setting as the lubricant requires you to use a lighter torque setting. Jon B has better lug nuts that have a long neck and are a bigger nut size than the stock ones (13/16”). After the first drive check the torque again lots of times it seats the stud fully after a drive. Since I changed mine and always use a torque wrench I have never had a problem. I only bought an aftermarket ones to OEM specs( Dorman 610-395 Dorman Wheel Studs | Summit Racing ) . They are plenty strong if wheels are installed correctly ,by hand using a torque wrench ( unless you have a Prefix 9L and professionally track the car)
OEMTOOLS 27276 Tie Rod End Remover (weselltools.com)
http://www.viperpartsrack.com/viper-wheels/lug-nuts
Caliper mounting bolts 85 ft/lbs.
Hub to knuckle bolts 45 ft/lb.



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[Hawk]

more pics
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[Arizona Vipers]

Do you use titanium nuts as well? Prob a dumb question since I know you're all aout cutting weight. That reminds me, you did TI springs too right?

Yeah, all three. Still waiting to install the springs, had to get different sized seats since they are for an ACR shock and my car runs MSC.

[CarbonDan]

I used this tie rod end tool. I did need to file a little off each side of the jaw opening so the end of the stud would clear thru. Crank it tight with a wrench and if it doesn’t move give it a little tap(the nut end of the tool) with a hammer and crank down again. Remove the hub off the car and clamp the hub disk part in a vice to hold it still. To install the new stud put the stud in the hub, get a stack of washers and an open end nut and crank it on until it seats. It helps to hit it with a cordless impact gun to get the spline to engage into the hub before you put the wrench to it. Make sure you use a torque wrench on the lug nuts (107 ft/lbs.) do not use lube or antiseize if you use the full torque setting as the lubricant requires you to use a lighter torque setting. Jon B has better lug nuts that have a long neck and are a bigger nut size than the stock ones (13/16”). After the first drive check the torque again lots of times it seats the stud fully after a drive. Since I changed mine and always use a torque wrench I have never had a problem. I only bought an aftermarket ones to OEM specs( Dorman 610-395 Dorman Wheel Studs | Summit Racing ) . They are plenty strong if wheels are installed correctly ,by hand using a torque wrench ( unless you have a Prefix 9L and professionally track the car)
OEMTOOLS 27276 Tie Rod End Remover (weselltools.com)
http://www.viperpartsrack.com/viper-wheels/lug-nuts
Caliper mounting bolts 85 ft/lbs.
Hub to knuckle bolts 45 ft/lb.



Awesome! Everything I needed! If anyone is interested I can write up and document the process. Thanks again for the input all around.

[Viper98]

Yes, absolutely, write up and document. Always room for more info.

Thank you sir

[Rocket]

First question - are you using a hand torque wrench and what torque are you setting to?

[CarbonDan]

First question - are you using a hand torque wrench and what torque are you setting to?

I've made the typical mistakes of letting my cordless impact slam the lug home for a second too long. Normally I start the lug by hand, thread it several times, then run it up with the impact until it snugs lightly, drop the car, then torque with a handheld torque wrench to 110 ftlb.
I've definitely let the impact click over 2-3 times.
I've also torqued to 110 ftlb after a hard track session while hot (don't know anyway around this than to use a much lower torque value and 'guess'?)
And then lots of track use on top.

Going forward I'm only running up the lugs with the impact on setting 1 and stopping short of snug. I'm also breaking the lugs loose by hand not by the impact. And I think I'm settling on about 90-95 ftlb of torque with frequent checks after track sessions.

[13COBRA]

I've made the typical mistakes of letting my cordless impact slam the lug home for a second too long. Normally I start the lug by hand, thread it several times, then run it up with the impact until it snugs lightly, drop the car, then torque with a handheld torque wrench to 110 ftlb.
I've definitely let the impact click over 2-3 times.
I've also torqued to 110 ftlb after a hard track session while hot (don't know anyway around this than to use a much lower torque value and 'guess'?)
And then lots of track use on top.

Going forward I'm only running up the lugs with the impact on setting 1 and stopping short of snug. I'm also breaking the lugs loose by hand not by the impact. And I think I'm settling on about 90-95 ftlb of torque with frequent checks after track sessions.

I run 80lbs with my titanium lugnuts and torque between sessions. I also finger start then run them down to barely snug and then hand torque. I usually always use a breakaway bar to loosen initially but then the gun to zip them off.

[Hawk]

If you use the impact gun to install the first lug nut you are applying a lot of pressure to the stud if you are using the nut to pull the wheel to the hub because the tires are wide and it is pulling it in at an angle. If you are using a gun to just to snug them up hold the wheel tight to the hub with your knees so it is flat before hitting it with the gun. Stop the gun before it starts clicking (or use a cordless drill that has adjustable torque settings) . Tighten in a star formation . I always tighten by hand, hit them at 85 FT/LBS. and then hit them a second time at the 107 ft/lbs. When removing them with a gun crack them loose by hand, hold the tire tight to the hub with your knees and loosen them up with the gun, remember using speed with a gun creates heat in the stud.

[pMak26]

Is it worth it to punch the studs out? I'd just get a new hub and install new studs. Hubs are a high wear item for any track car anyway. I'd maybe punch the studs out later and keep as a track side spare.

I torque 88ftlbs, no more, checked every session, never had an issue. I do, however, use a tiny bit of copper grease on the studs*. You may want to consider the same. The studs in the picture look bone dry. It's something I always did when working for Ferrari years ago so I carried it over to everything I work on.

*lubed torque is lower than dry torque

[Arizona Vipers]

I've made the typical mistakes of letting my cordless impact slam the lug home for a second too long. Normally I start the lug by hand, thread it several times, then run it up with the impact until it snugs lightly, drop the car, then torque with a handheld torque wrench to 110 ftlb.
I've definitely let the impact click over 2-3 times.
I've also torqued to 110 ftlb after a hard track session while hot (don't know anyway around this than to use a much lower torque value and 'guess'?)
And then lots of track use on top.

Going forward I'm only running up the lugs with the impact on setting 1 and stopping short of snug. I'm also breaking the lugs loose by hand not by the impact. And I think I'm settling on about 90-95 ftlb of torque with frequent checks after track sessions.

I do 80 ft/lbs. If you are a track guy and check them often, that's more than enough. 110 is for people that would never check them, only after 30,000 miles getting new tires lol.
I know a lot of guys with Gen 5's that have broke lug nuts, I never have broke one and there's nobody that has swapped wheels on a Gen 5 more than me.

[13COBRA]

I do 80 ft/lbs. If you are a track guy and check them often, that's more than enough. 110 is for people that would never check them, only after 30,000 miles getting new tires lol.
I know a lot of guys with Gen 5's that have broke lug nuts, I never have broke one and there's nobody that has swapped wheels on a Gen 5 more than me.

lol I bet you're correct.

I've never broken a stud either.

[CarbonDan]

Yes, absolutely, write up and document. Always room for more info.

Thank you sir

So I completed the job on the 2 front wheels and it was a right pain in the ass. I started to document the process but dropped that not too long in.
Short answer is - these ARP lugs "Wheel Stud ARP Racing Long 3" Lug Bolt Viper 92-17 × 30" are way too long for the ACR-E, and what happens is that any sort of slight angle you had in the stud when pressing it into place gets amplified over that excessively long distance - net result is the brake rotor doesn't have enough clearance in it to accomodate the exaggerated angles of the studs.

And so began the process of removing and repeatedly trying to reseat the studs to get them to sit straight.

Result was: broken 6" vice, shattered Lissle 22800 tool, multiple broken studs and lugs, and damaged threads on the studs that did finally line up enough, finally got the fronts on and got the brake rotor to slide on (had to basically force it on and it sheared some of the threads off the new studs in the process, fortunately the nuts still thread and hold perfectly.

So moral of the story is, don't get 3" studs for a stock ACR-E, unless you have spacers or other reasons to go that long.


I used a 'metal cutter' dremel attachment to slice the notch into the ARP studs so that I could start the pressing/pulling through process without any angular pressure on the stud. Every tactic I tried to pull the studs through, they just wouldn't sit 100% straight. Easiest way was get it started with a few light taps with a hammer, then zip it through with lissle tool and an impact. Lissle tool shattered after about 12-15 uses. The stud face would be sitting what looked like perfectly flat against the back of the hub, but any slight angle grows over that distance.
Tried using my vise to 'press' them into place, and completely shattered the vise, a huge chunk of metal where the worm gear drives it cracked off, it basically cracked in half.

OEMTOOLS 27276 Tie Rod End Remover works perfectly, just take a dremel to it to open it up a 1-2 mm to get enough clearance for it to fit around the stud head. Pushes the old studs out with ease (note, the ARPs are so damn long that the only way to get them out will be with a hammer!)

Going forward, when those hubs are ready for preemptive replacement at the end of this season, I'm going to replace them with new OEM hubs and bearings, and will likely just go with OEM studs (which come out and go in like an absolute breeze), will use antiseize, and a much lower torque value, with more diligence to ensure I don't impact them in place at all.

1 thumb down for the ARPs for being too long (my problem, not theirs) and also for requiring notching.
1 thumb up for the ARPs for withstanding some heavy impacting without snapping (yet).



Just to circle back with brief instructions - getting the hubs off the front is really fast and easy (under 20 mins).
Jack up, remove wheel, remove 2 hex bolts holding brake caliper in place (85 ftlb to reinstall). Set caliper aside SUPPORTED, not hanging by the lines.
Remove brake rotor.
On the back of the hub there are 4 hex bolts, I believe 15mm or so. Remove those (45 ftlb to reinstall).
On the back, very center of the hub (inside side) there's a torx bit, smaller torx. It hooks the ABS tone wheel to the hub. Remove that --- DON'T need to remove the giant ~33mm nut holding the bearing in there, just remove the torx bit on the backside (might need to put a 33mm bit on the hub just to prevent it from rotating while you remove it).
At that point the hub is completely free.
Torx tone wheel bolt is 13 ftlb to reinstall.