ACR Review by Throttle House

[zee]

Didn’t see this posted so thought I’d share. Fun watch:


https://youtu.be/eITIfzbIt28

[texasram]

Dang you beat me to it. I love how reviewers are super late to review this car and are blown away by it like @harrismonkey. The ACR is still definitely not the viper for me though

[ACRSNK]

Cool video. Reaction seems to be consistent with most that test the car. Where were these tests when Vipers were sitting in showroom floors?

[ViperJon]

Not a big fan of the silly giggly byplay but at least they know what the car is for and don't comment on how hot or uncomfortable it is like most. Regarding Viper sales lets be honest...the ACR-E saved the Viper from being a forgotten footnote in history as the initial performance and sales were nothing to write home about on the introductory models. The TA upped the ante and the ACR-E set the bar very high. That and being discontinued of course.

[Lawineer]

As I described it to my friend:
"It's the dumbest car ever made, a caricature of a car, which is why I love it."

I've driven a lot of cars- front, mid, rear, engine, Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus, Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, Miata, Spec cars, old, new, and the difference between any of those cars is about 1/5th the difference between them and a viper.


How it sold is irrelevant. With that said, I think the main reason for low sales were
1) Corvette. C7 knocked it out of the park and hit what most people wanted- a very fast street car with as much comfort as possible- for less.
2) It's more of a 3rd car than a second car, which isn't a bad thing, but it's not nearly as comfortable or street friendly as the larger market wants (whatever, it's what I want)
3) Its reputation was bad from previous generations. I didn't really consider it because I thought it was another poorly thought out kit car from dodge that would burn my legs and have horrible snap oversteer that would kill me. By the Gen 4, I wasn't interested in Vipers at all. Now, I'm growing less and less interested in the C8 Z06 by the day- especially days I drive it. And heck, I "only" have a GTS.

[ViperNC]

He is driving the one I want!

[Policy Limits]

Street legal race car. So true that the character of the car comes alive after 4,000 RPM's.

[StrokerAce]

As I described it to my friend:
"It's the dumbest car ever made, a caricature of a car, which is why I love it."

I've driven a lot of cars- front, mid, rear, engine, Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus, Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, Miata, Spec cars, old, new, and the difference between any of those cars is about 1/5th the difference between them and a viper.


How it sold is irrelevant. With that said, I think the main reason for low sales were
1) Corvette. C7 knocked it out of the park and hit what most people wanted- a very fast street car with as much comfort as possible- for less.
2) It's more of a 3rd car than a second car, which isn't a bad thing, but it's not nearly as comfortable or street friendly as the larger market wants (whatever, it's what I want)
3) Its reputation was bad from previous generations. I didn't really consider it because I thought it was another poorly thought out kit car from dodge that would burn my legs and have horrible snap oversteer that would kill me. By the Gen 4, I wasn't interested in Vipers at all. Now, I'm growing less and less interested in the C8 Z06 by the day- especially days I drive it. And heck, I "only" have a GTS.

Pretty spot on but I wouldn't say price was really the deterrent to go to the C7. Most people who are Corvette, more so repeat Corvette buyers, won't buy anything else. My friend has a 2016 Z06 and he said he didn't think he could afford the Viper but his Z06 was the same price as the base Viper. When I showed him he was shocked and said he would have considered the Viper but he didn't know what he didn't know. Granted, his Z06 has some nice options so probably a little more loaded than the base Viper but they are still comparable.

[Hamrhead]

Love Throttle House!


Just got back from driving my Viper this morning - 75 miles!

I was definitely uncomfortable towards the end. I swear the seats in the Gen III/IV were better.

Otherwise, enjoyed the hell out of it!

Now I'm good for a while.

[Lawineer]

Pretty spot on but I wouldn't say price was really the deterrent to go to the C7. Most people who are Corvette, more so repeat Corvette buyers, won't buy anything else. My friend has a 2016 Z06 and he said he didn't think he could afford the Viper but his Z06 was the same price as the base Viper. When I showed him he was shocked and said he would have considered the Viper but he didn't know what he didn't know. Granted, his Z06 has some nice options so probably a little more loaded than the base Viper but they are still comparable.

Yeah, I just assumed it was more expensive because it always was more expensive than the Corvette. I didn't investigate either, because I assumed they were poorly designed cars like the previous generations that were actively trying to kill me.

While near 700hp is exciting for us, packaged the way it is, it's damn raw and carnal and too much for most (hence the "third car" description). Look at how many people bought the Grand Sport and Stingray over the Z06. And most of those were auto Z06s (plus, let's be honest, Z06 is a hell of a lot more tame than a Viper).

[Hamrhead]

actively trying to kill me.

auto Z06s (plus, let's be honest, Z06 is a hell of a lot more tame than a Viper).

My buddy just unloaded his '15 Auto ZO6. He's also owned a couple of Vipers(Gen III and IV).

He says the Vipers were more predictable the ZO6. Between the instant torque of the SC and the Auto trans, the car was always going sideways. Though the factory RunFlats may have contributed to that.

The Vette is way more comfortable inside.

[StrokerAce]

Yeah, I just assumed it was more expensive because it always was more expensive than the Corvette. I didn't investigate either, because I assumed they were poorly designed cars like the previous generations that were actively trying to kill me.

While near 700hp is exciting for us, packaged the way it is, it's damn raw and carnal and too much for most (hence the "third car" description). Look at how many people bought the Grand Sport and Stingray over the Z06. And most of those were auto Z06s (plus, let's be honest, Z06 is a hell of a lot more tame than a Viper).

Absolutely. For a DD an auto Vette would be fine (been debating on it actually) but not sure I'd rather have that over an auto ZL1. Probably rather have the ZL1. lol

I do wish Dodge would back out with a Viper but I believe if that happens it won't be what we have grown to love about the car, sadly.

[Lawineer]

My buddy just unloaded his '15 Auto ZO6. He's also owned a couple of Vipers(Gen III and IV).

He says the Vipers were more predictable the ZO6. Between the instant torque of the SC and the Auto trans, the car was always going sideways. Though the factory RunFlats may have contributed to that.

The Vette is way more comfortable inside.

Weird. My C7 GS (manual) was about the easiest car to drive on the track I've ever driven- and I've driven a tom from Miata to Ferrari. I wonder if something wasn't set up right. The Factory Cup2 tires were awesome, except for them delaminating when you get them too hot.

[Bruce H.]

I'm not getting this "Gen V Viper is uncomfortable" stuff. My wife and I with iffy backs have put 70,000 kms on ours, driving the furthest of anyone to NVE2 as I recall (Ontario to New Orleans), and many other long road trips involving multiple days of driving 7.5-9 hours per day. Maybe it's the TA dual mode suspension and ballistic nylon seats but we've found ours to be great for long road trips. Even the drone zone doesn't bother Deb, although I do tend to avoid the 2100-2300 rpm range. Stop every 2.5-3 hours to stretch and motor on, which we also have to do in the other 3 vehicles as well. Awesome road trip car if there's a track day anywhere along the route ;)

Corvettes are good for road trips too I've heard, particularly if there isn't a grueling track day and a skilled driver at the wheel to survive. And I hear they are way better for runs for groceries, and to hair salons, nail appointments, etc!

[Lawineer]

I'm not getting this "Gen V Viper is uncomfortable" stuff. My wife and I with iffy backs have put 70,000 kms on ours, driving the furthest of anyone to NVE2 as I recall (Ontario to New Orleans), and many other long road trips involving multiple days of driving 7.5-9 hours per day. Maybe it's the TA dual mode suspension and ballistic nylon seats but we've found ours to be great for long road trips. Even the drone zone doesn't bother Deb, although I do tend to avoid the 2100-2300 rpm range. Stop every 2.5-3 hours to stretch and motor on, which we also have to do in the other 3 vehicles as well. Awesome road trip car if there's a track day anywhere along the route ;)

Corvettes are good for road trips too I've heard, particularly if there isn't a grueling track day and a skilled driver at the wheel to survive. And I hear they are way better for runs for groceries, and to hair salons, nail appointments, etc!

Seats are great. It’s definitely a lot stiffer than most cars, but I think it’s mostly the visibility and sound that make it less than ideal for regular driving.

Also, the relatively small gas tank and horrific gas mileage, haha!

[former345bhpLS1]

I also don’t get the uncomfortable part, I have driven my Viper for more than 8 hours in a day with no physical discomfort at all (and I’m 40, not 20). I wish the windshield header didn’t come down as low as it does, but that is a minor issue for me.

I think the simple problem with sales was the lack of an automatic transmission. There is only one sports car on the market since the Gen V launched that is manual only (Mustang GT 350 is the exception, but the GT and GT500 gives buyers options). Even the few sports cars that offer both transmissions sell majority autos, often by a big margin.

The market has spoken in terms of transmission preference and no sports car is going to do well with only a manual. It is quite likely that the option of an auto would have added substantially to Viper sales (my guess is 50-100% more), but it would have compromised the Viper’s persona. Plus, roughly half of all Viper sales historically were convertibles and the Gen V was coupe only. Lots of reasons for underwhelming sales.

I am actually happy with how things turned out all factors considered. The Viper concept is tough to modernize, especially on a small budget. We ended up with a remarkably good car in the end. I wouldn’t change anything about mine (except maybe raise the windshield header a touch).

-Nick

[phantomapollyon]

I'm not getting this "Gen V Viper is uncomfortable" stuff. My wife and I with iffy backs have put 70,000 kms on ours, driving the furthest of anyone to NVE2 as I recall (Ontario to New Orleans), and many other long road trips involving multiple days of driving 7.5-9 hours per day. Maybe it's the TA dual mode suspension and ballistic nylon seats but we've found ours to be great for long road trips. Even the drone zone doesn't bother Deb, although I do tend to avoid the 2100-2300 rpm range. Stop every 2.5-3 hours to stretch and motor on, which we also have to do in the other 3 vehicles as well. Awesome road trip car if there's a track day anywhere along the route ;)

Corvettes are good for road trips too I've heard, particularly if there isn't a grueling track day and a skilled driver at the wheel to survive. And I hear they are way better for runs for groceries, and to hair salons, nail appointments, etc!


Almost everyone of a generally normal height, say 5"-5"10, that sits/rides in my Gen V GTS really loves the seats, and tends to comment about the overall comfort being better than they expected without provocation. While I do think the seats are solid for most, for me personally the lower lumbar is really oddly positioned and after a few hours I need to get out and decompress. If I literally roll up a small towel and throw it in the crease between the bottom/back of the seat it is at 10x more comfortable for me. (I'm literally going to make a firm foam insert to flatten that bottom area out a bit so I can stop with the towel thing.) I would say, anecdotally as it may be, that most of my taller friends tend to very much agree that the lower lumbar positioning of those seats is odd as hell. Also, the seats really should be adjustable to 1-2" lower to better accommodate a range of height/body types. Personally, though I've gotten used to it and it really doesn't bother me, getting out of the Viper and into almost any other sports car I've had feels like "wow, I can see now." All of that said, I love my Gen V but I certainly wouldn't argue it's a "comfortable" car in even the loosest sense...though in my mind that's really not the point of a Viper.

In context of some other cars I've owned and sat in I can totally understand why comparatively speaking someone would call it uncomfortable. Certainly it's more comfortable than a Gen 1-4, but subjectively for me I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's in the same comfort league as a lot of other cars. To list a few cars I find more comfortable, basically any modern Porsche I've sat in- Cayman GT4 is awesome, every non-race seat having R34/35 GT-R, any car with Recaro Sportsters, a lot of the AMG cars, and even my Fiat 500 Abarth daily with stock seats. Obviously this is just my perspective and comfort is very subjective from person to person.

[StrokerAce]

I am actually happy with how things turned out all factors considered. The Viper concept is tough to modernize, especially on a small budget. We ended up with a remarkably good car in the end. I wouldn’t change anything about mine (except maybe raise the windshield header a touch).

-Nick


What year is yours? I believe all and most/some of the 14's had these little blockers under the seat.

48002

These are 1&1/8th long and sit on top.of a nut on top of a washer on top of the rail. Meaning once removed you have close to 2" of extra headroom. I'm 6'1" and with these in place and the seat all the way down the roof line was at my eye Lev. Once removed I can see much better. I have yet to remove the passenger side but maybe will the next time I get the car out.

[former345bhpLS1]

I have a 2015 and the view is waayyy better than my prior 2013 SRT.

Still, wouldn’t mind if the header curved down less, but not a problem. In my 2013, it was pretty irritating. :)

-Nick

[viperBase1]

Great Video! Fun watch.

Memorable quotes:


Ask a Viper ACR why its used value has gone up as much as a new Lamborghini Huracan.
And it will tell you to Shut Your Commie Mouth.


Blasting down the straight - Mother Nature just pissed her paints suit.

:lol2:

[StrokerAce]

I have a 2015 and the view is waayyy better than my prior 2013 SRT.

Still, wouldn’t mind if the header curved down less, but not a problem. In my 2013, it was pretty irritating. :)

-Nick

I believe the only different is those little seat stoppers.

[former345bhpLS1]

I believe the only different is those little seat stoppers.
Yes indeed and did just check again to ensure that mine didn’t have those. The seating position is a ton better without them and I was amazed at how much better my 2015 was when I first drove it.

Yet another gaffe on SRT’s part they cost them some sales in the beginning....

You are right that there is little difference between the 2013 and 2015 interiors, but there are a few little things: contrasting stitching throughout the interior and alcantera inserts in the doors and knee panels. These 2 additions do nicely elevate the base interior. My 2013 was one of the red launch editions and had leather seats. I think the nylon seats are more comfortable, both softer and better ventilated. My back used to get sweaty while driving aggressively on warm days, leading me to slide a bit more in the seat. That never happens with my nylon seats and they look a little more interesting too.

-Nick

[AZTVR]

If Dodge could have just tweaked the design of the Viper a bit more and marketed it better so that they could have sold 20,000 more a year instead of those sales going to Corvette, that would have been perfect. Also, we could have avoided this ridiculous run-up in asking prices. \s

[StrokerAce]

Yes indeed and did just check again to ensure that mine didn’t have those. The seating position is a ton better without them and I was amazed at how much better my 2015 was when I first drove it.

Yet another gaffe on SRT’s part they cost them some sales in the beginning....

You are right that there is little difference between the 2013 and 2015 interiors, but there are a few little things: contrasting stitching throughout the interior and alcantera inserts in the doors and knee panels. These 2 additions do nicely elevate the base interior. My 2013 was one of the red launch editions and had leather seats. I think the nylon seats are more comfortable, both softer and better ventilated. My back used to get sweaty while driving aggressively on warm days, leading me to slide a bit more in the seat. That never happens with my nylon seats and they look a little more interesting too.

-Nick

My biggest gripe, as mine has the Laguna interior, is no ventilated seats. WTF? lol

[Whiskey]

Really for a Gen6 just a few tweaks would be needed...
1.) switch to aluminum frame
2.) rear mounted trans (manual and auto...great idea Chevy...let's give them credit where it's due).
3.) bring back a vert (ala Gen3/4) and Targa (Gen1/2).

They wouldn't be able to build them fast enough.

Keep it low volume, keep 1 of 1 program. Keep the crazy we...I wouldn't cry if we downsized to a 7.0L SC'd V8 making 900hp in a 3350lb rwd beast.

Dream mode on: Oh yes make even more insane ACR with 2klbs of downforce 385rears and skinny 355's up front at 3150lbs and 16.2" CC brakes. Give it so much grip it comes with a warning about how you could loose teeth.

[Lawineer]

Really for a Gen6 just a few tweaks would be needed...
1.) switch to aluminum frame
2.) rear mounted trans (manual and auto...great idea Chevy...let's give them credit where it's due).
3.) bring back a vert (ala Gen3/4) and Targa (Gen1/2).

They wouldn't be able to build them fast enough.

Keep it low volume, keep 1 of 1 program. Keep the crazy we...I wouldn't cry if we downsized to a 7.0L SC'd V8 making 900hp in a 3350lb rwd beast.

Dream mode on: Oh yes make even more insane ACR with 2klbs of downforce 385rears and skinny 355's up front at 3150lbs and 16.2" CC brakes. Give it so much grip it comes with a warning about how you could loose teeth.

I’m with you in the aluminum frame, but the rear mounted transmission has a ton of trade offs. First off you’re moving weight from the center and putting it in the rear. It also makes the car longer (the viper is shorter than the corvette!) however, a 7speed with a rev match option is a must.

A viper has to have a v10 and sidepipes to me. Sorry. It’s like the corvette going to a turbo6 or something.

I don’t want ccb. Make it an option, but I’d rather iron for track use due to cost.

[Bruce H.]

While I do think the seats are solid for most, for me personally the lower lumbar is really oddly positioned and after a few hours I need to get out and decompress. If I literally roll up a small towel and throw it in the crease between the bottom/back of the seat it is at 10x more comfortable for me.

Yes, that's why I qualified by comments with my ballistic nylon seats that don't have the issue you experienced, and the dual mode dampers that are much more compliant than the SRT's single mode.



I love my Gen V but I certainly wouldn't argue it's a "comfortable" car in even the loosest sense...though in my mind that's really not the point of a Viper.

While there are more "comfortable" cars, I don't know of any that are comparable to the Gen V, as I looked high and low before ordering my '14 and Corvette didn't even make the top 5. The closest was the 911GT3RS and it's not nearly as comfortable as the Viper on the open road. My wife would take one ride and that would be it. AMG GT is a wonderful luxury coupe, but not comparable. We drove our '19 911 Turbo S with their most comfortable seats today for 1.5 hours and after 2 years and 18 way adjustment I still want out after an hour or so. The big benefit to that car is the seats recline way back so alternating stints in the passengers seat let's you straighten out the hips on long road trips which is a big plus.

We've done a lot of long trips in the Viper and haven't hesitated to plan another and another. 23 hours each way to NVE5 and we can't wait. I travel 7 hours to Mont Tremblant in Quebec to do full day open lapping from 9 am- 4pm and have come off of track and then driven 7 hours home. 5'10", and the header took about a week to get used to, but just not a problem. The only thing that can get to me is the drone zone when speed limits put me in that range, but even that isn't a biggy.

I hope you're able to come up with a good fix for your seats to make it more comfortable. Btw, how many miles do you have on yours?

[ViperJon]

If Dodge could have just tweaked the design of the Viper a bit more and marketed it better so that they could have sold 20,000 more a year instead of those sales going to Corvette, that would have been perfect. Also, we could have avoided this ridiculous run-up in asking prices. \s

If we wanted a car that sold 20K a year we would have bought Corvettes. And owners don't seem to mind the run up in "ridiculous" asking prices, just people who waited too long to buy in. They languished quite affordably for years.

[Lawineer]

Yeah, I dont think the viper was meant to sell like the Corvette. It's evident in just its manufacturing and parts. A lot of it screams "low volume tooling" (which isn't bad, and often good. You just use different processes for making 1000/yr than 30,000/yr).
They'd honestly have a very difficult time competing with Corvette, which is why they didn't, and went "up" a level.

I honestly think the previous 4 generations did more to hurt the gen 5 sales than anything else. By that point, they lost so many prospective buyers to not just Corvette and Porsche and etc once, but likely repeated, and they, as well as others, just weren't willing to look at Viper. It still had the "snap oversteer and kill you, handful to drive" reputation. I hear a lot of people debating Corvette with Cayman and 911 and a few other cars. Never really a Viper.

They also should have done more with the exhaust note. It sounds awful, raspy and full of drone without at least high flow cat.

[Whiskey]

I’m with you in the aluminum frame, but the rear mounted transmission has a ton of trade offs. First off you’re moving weight from the center and putting it in the rear. It also makes the car longer (the viper is shorter than the corvette!) however, a 7speed with a rev match option is a must.

A viper has to have a v10 and sidepipes to me. Sorry. It’s like the corvette going to a turbo6 or something.

I don’t want ccb. Make it an option, but I’d rather iron for track use due to cost.

The trans would still be sitting mid-ship between the axles. A little extra weight in the rear is a very good thing. Makes it easier to get the power down and Porsche has proven rear heavy cars can handle very, very well.

The most iconic Viper...Gen 2 GTS was rear exit.

I'd argue a blown V8 (ala hellephant) would sound better.

[Lawineer]

The trans would still be sitting mid-ship between the axles. A little extra weight in the rear is a very good thing. Makes it easier to get the power down and Porsche has proven rear heavy cars can handle very, very well.

The most iconic Viper...Gen 2 GTS was rear exit.

I'd argue a blown V8 (ala hellephant) would sound better.

I mean, a lot of things would sound better, but it's just not a Viper anymore! I know the Gen2 was rear exhaust, and I can respect your position, but again, to me, a Viper needs to be a V10 with side pipes :)

We can compromise. How about a flat Plane supercharged V10 revving to 7500 with sidepipes dumping behind the rear wheel?

[texasram]

I’m with you in the aluminum frame, but the rear mounted transmission has a ton of trade offs. First off you’re moving weight from the center and putting it in the rear. It also makes the car longer (the viper is shorter than the corvette!) however, a 7speed with a rev match option is a must.

A viper has to have a v10 and sidepipes to me. Sorry. It’s like the corvette going to a turbo6 or something.

I don’t want ccb. Make it an option, but I’d rather iron for track use due to cost.

I agree except the side pipes, thats why the rear exit gen 2's sound the best

[Bruce H.]

Many buyers of the Gen V were first time Viper buyers and weren't particularly attracted to or influenced by previous Gen specs. Ralph and SRT walked a tight-rope to keeping traditional Viper qualities for the faithful, while updating the car to what buyers of modern higher-end high performance models were also looking for, and creating a car that was even more track capable. They only half succeeded by not offering a convertible that the older faithful wanted, and were still behind in technology by not offering the vastly superior DCT that the higher performance track rats mostly insist on, nor active aero or the vastly superior suspensions that some other brands offer. The Viper falls into a narrow category that suits some of us incredibly well...and not at all for the others.

A Gen 6 would need to be very different, and not at all what many of the Viper faithful would want. And if they did build what is needed I'd be one of the first to order one...and perhaps keep the Gen V for the nostalgia! Times have changed, manufacturers know they need to embrace it, and they know they have to do a lot more than just worry about satisfying their aging past customer base.

[Lawineer]

Many buyers of the Gen V were first time Viper buyers and weren't particularly attracted to or influenced by previous Gen specs. Ralph and SRT walked a tight-rope to keeping traditional Viper qualities for the faithful, while updating the car to what buyers of modern higher-end high performance models were also looking for, and creating a car that was even more track capable. They only half succeeded by not offering a convertible that the older faithful wanted, and were still behind in technology by not offering the vastly superior DCT that the higher performance track rats mostly insist on, nor active aero or the vastly superior suspensions that some other brands offer. The Viper falls into a narrow category that suits some of us incredibly well...and not at all for the others.

A Gen 6 would need to be very different, and not at all what many of the Viper faithful would want. And if they did build what is needed I'd be one of the first to order one...and perhaps keep the Gen V for the nostalgia! Times have changed, manufacturers know they need to embrace it, and they know they have to do a lot more than just worry about satisfying their aging past customer base.

We're not asking why people did buy, but why they didn't buy. You could get the ACR-E for what, $120k? The fastest manual to ever lap the ring? The car was a crazy value. I think people weren't interested because they just weren't considering a Viper- because of what they thought the viper was. I

Heck, I heard it when I had my C7. Casual sports car enthusiasts thought it was a "straight line only car" that was nothing but a powerful engine, especially older ones. They were absolutely shocked to learn it handles very well, has big brakes, etc and eats up a lot of fancy sports cars twice its price.

I agree that a lack of other options (hard top only, M6 only, etc) hurt it. It also should have really had a dual mode exhaust like every other sports car in the world.

[former345bhpLS1]

I think the age old dismissal of the Viper as “straight-line only” and “can’t handle” has been nonsense from the very start and certainly wrong from the Gen II onward. I was reading an old Road and Track last week from 1998 - big comparison test with all the big sports cars of the time including the 97 Viper GTS. The pro driver (Steve Millen) who did the timed laps declared the GTS “superb handling and the best balanced street car that I have driven on track”. He was also surprised that one could buy a street car with “that much horsepower”; which is the root of these silly tails.

It is no coincidence that street cars making more than 300 hp in the 90s also showed up with the first generation of traction controls. They were needed to sell cars to the general public with that much power! Let alone 400+ from the start with no aides at all. This criticism from other car owners of poor performance and poor handling is just a cover for their own insecurities and lack of restraint/ability.

I also seriously doubt that there will ever be a Gen VI Viper, wide acceptance of this is also driving Viper values up. Dodge has fews cars in its product line and SUVs are keeping the company afloat. The Hellcat has proven to be a very effective halo that they can also place into the engine bay of nearly all of their volume cars - so each model line has a self-referencing halo model that gets peoples attention and drives sales. It’s hard to imagine that designing a whole new platform for a new Viper would ever make any sense. Not like Dodge is doing well financially anyway, they can’t spend money on a project like this.

There is a clear evolution of each Gen from the last that would be totally broken with a GenVI. I can just imagine the jabs from auto journalists if Dodge released a V8 auto Viper, it wouldn’t have anything to tie it to prior gens and the Viper has a clear/consistent calling card with its V10 engine. It would be like calling the McLaren Artura the “new McLaren F1”. I just can’t see it working. I’d rather Dodge use a different name and start something new.

-Nick

[Lawineer]

I think the age old dismissal of the Viper as “straight-line only” and “can’t handle” has been nonsense from the very start and certainly wrong from the Gen II onward. I was reading an old Road and Track last week from 1998 - big comparison test with all the big sports cars of the time including the 97 Viper GTS. The pro driver (Steve Millen) who did the timed laps declared the GTS “superb handling and the best balanced street car that I have driven on track”. He was also surprised that one could buy a street car with “that much horsepower”; which is the root of these silly tails.

It is no coincidence that street cars making more than 300 hp in the 90s also showed up with the first generation of traction controls. They were needed to sell cars to the general public with that much power! Let alone 400+ from the start with no aides at all. This criticism from other car owners of poor performance and poor handling is just a cover for their own insecurities and lack of restraint/ability.

I also seriously doubt that there will ever be a Gen VI Viper, wide acceptance of this is also driving Viper values up. Dodge has fews cars in its product line and SUVs are keeping the company afloat. The Hellcat has proven to be a very effective halo that they can also place into the engine bay of nearly all of their volume cars - so each model line has a self-referencing halo model that gets peoples attention and drives sales. It’s hard to imagine that designing a whole new platform for a new Viper would ever make any sense. Not like Dodge is doing well financially anyway, they can’t spend money on a project like this.

There is a clear evolution of each Gen from the last that would be totally broken with a GenVI. I can just imagine the jabs from auto journalists if Dodge released a V8 auto Viper, it wouldn’t have anything to tie it to prior gens and the Viper has a clear/consistent calling card with its V10 engine. It would be like calling the McLaren Artura the “new McLaren F1”. I just can’t see it working. I’d rather Dodge use a different name and start something new.

-Nick

Magazines are generally full of shit in their reviews anyway- both intentinally and due to competence. Higher HP cars are harder to drive. So when they say stuff like the lower powered car handled better, it's because it was a ton easier to drive.

"It's so well balanced." GTFO. There are virtually zero "balanced" OEM cars. They all understeer, heavily. They just hear "50/50 weight distribution" and think "balanced."

They confuse stuff like quick/heavy steering wheels with good handling, "it didn't spin around on me" as neutral handling. Those retards didn't even notice a Z06 pulling 200hp worth of timing.

[usmcfieldmp]

Dodge has fews cars in its product line and SUVs are keeping the company afloat. The Hellcat has proven to be a very effective halo that they can also place into the engine bay of nearly all of their volume cars - so each model line has a self-referencing halo model that gets peoples attention and drives sales. It’s hard to imagine that designing a whole new platform for a new Viper would ever make any sense. Not like Dodge is doing well financially anyway, they can’t spend money on a project like this.

There is a clear evolution of each Gen from the last that would be totally broken with a GenVI. I can just imagine the jabs from auto journalists if Dodge released a V8 auto Viper, it wouldn’t have anything to tie it to prior gens and the Viper has a clear/consistent calling card with its V10 engine. It would be like calling the McLaren Artura the “new McLaren F1”. I just can’t see it working. I’d rather Dodge use a different name and start something new.

-Nick

I tend to agree initially, but disagree a bit after really thinking about it.

Every brand has been narrowing down their car offerings though - and SUV sales are keeping ALL of them going. I haven't kept up with it in the last year, but I think Q1 or Q2 2020, Volkswagen USA was like 60-70% SUV sales.

Additionally, Ford has recently "destroyed" iconic/traditional brands (Mach-E/Mustang SUV; TT V6 in the Ford GT - people hated that idea initially), as has GM (Mid-engine Corvette with no Manual Trans option; the Z06 will be flat-plane crank, so it won't sound "American"). While that doesn't mean Dodge can/will follow suit, I don't eliminate it from the realm of possibilities.

[Lawineer]

^^^ Really good points.

Dodge lost their ass and is still licking their wounds on this car. They literally ended production 3-4 years ago. Why would they come right back and do it again?

[former345bhpLS1]

I tend to agree initially, but disagree a bit after really thinking about it.

Every brand has been narrowing down their car offerings though - and SUV sales are keeping ALL of them going. I haven't kept up with it in the last year, but I think Q1 or Q2 2020, Volkswagen USA was like 60-70% SUV sales.

Additionally, Ford has recently "destroyed" iconic/traditional brands (Mach-E/Mustang SUV; TT V6 in the Ford GT - people hated that idea initially), as has GM (Mid-engine Corvette with no Manual Trans option; the Z06 will be flat-plane crank, so it won't sound "American"). While that doesn't mean Dodge can/will follow suit, I don't eliminate it from the realm of possibilities.

All good points and I haven’t eliminated the possibility by any means. But I certainly wouldn’t put money on it happening either.

We are in a strange transition point right now where every sports car is incredibly fast and highly automated in a way that is starting to bother buyers. Plus, no ICE can match the practical straightline performance of an EV and there needs to be something that differentiates ICE sports cars from EVs - which should be personality and that analog fee.

So there is growing interest in analog cars and big time interest in cars like the T.50 where actual performance is totally unknown, but it doesn’t matter because the car will be fun to drive.

The Viper could do well in this environment, especially the Gen V or a minimally improved version of it. That said, convincing finance people to green light a project that underperformed (by their standards) just a few years ago when the company has just been acquired by Stellantis seems a bit unlikely. Plus, Stellantis has no sports car platforms in the current line-up which means either bringing back the Gen V chassis or starting from scratch (which is expensive). Then you have the shifting landscape around EVs and the risk of legacy automakers going by the wayside while up and comers steal the sales. It just seems that the automakers have higher priorities (existential priorities) than engineering a niche sports car.

I agree that a Viper return is possible, but simply not likely. Back in 2017, I figured that there was a 50:50 chance of seeing a Gen VI. Now it looks more like <10%, but this is just one man’s opinion and nothing more.

-Nick

[Bruce H.]

We're not asking why people did buy, but why they didn't buy. You could get the ACR-E for what, $120k? The fastest manual to ever lap the ring? The car was a crazy value. I think people weren't interested because they just weren't considering a Viper- because of what they thought the viper was. I

Heck, I heard it when I had my C7. Casual sports car enthusiasts thought it was a "straight line only car" that was nothing but a powerful engine, especially older ones. They were absolutely shocked to learn it handles very well, has big brakes, etc and eats up a lot of fancy sports cars twice its price.

I agree that a lack of other options (hard top only, M6 only, etc) hurt it. It also should have really had a dual mode exhaust like every other sports car in the world.

Welcome to Viper Nation! I hope you'll learn all about Vipers and tell your Corvette friends what most self-respecting sports car enthusiasts and every track enthusiast has known for years ;)

When I was looking in 2013 it was impossible to not see the Gen V featured and reviewed everywhere in the media. It had already set the production car track record at Laguna Seca, Motor Trend made sure every enthusiast on the planet knew it was fast and awesome handling, and many magazines wrote very, very positive reviews of it in Sept 2013 when many reviewed it on track. And when the ACR came out it went viral again!

They didn't buy it because they thought it wasn't good enough, they just weren't paying attention. Same for the Supra TT and countless other cars that were overlooked until some years after they were discontinued.

[USAFPILOT]

Considering the factory is gone, I would say the Viper is gone for good. But, we can quietly hope.

I just wanted to state I sold both of my Corvettes...A C5 Z16, and a C4 ZR-1 just to get a GenV GT. I wish I could have afforded an ACR and still do, but I do love my GT. At the time Inthought the GenV was the best looking car being sold, inside and out. Sorry the C7 is one ugly car. I shopped the C6 ZR1 against the GenV and decided on the Viper because it’s just really different in a good way for me. I like the Heritage all the way back to Carol Shelby and the Cobra. I had to have a stick, and I wanted the biggest engine I could get my hands on. I love the non boost 645HP V10 vs the supercharged LS9. I enjoyed this GenV so much I bought a 1993 RT/10 just for kicks, and I dare say I like it better. Maybe it’s just the open air experience and old school feel. I respect EVs for the sheer torque, but I don’t see myself on one ever. I still smile inside when I roll up next one with my side pipes burbling in their window at the stoplights.

These guys review was great. I’d like to see them compare the ACR to a GT3 made while the Viper was in production. That and review some previous Gen Vipers.

[Whiskey]

I mean, a lot of things would sound better, but it's just not a Viper anymore! I know the Gen2 was rear exhaust, and I can respect your position, but again, to me, a Viper needs to be a V10 with side pipes :)

We can compromise. How about a flat Plane supercharged V10 revving to 7500 with sidepipes dumping behind the rear wheel?

I'd go for that.

[Scott_in_fl]

I agree with the comment that something like the T.50 is where it's at. The formula is pure analog, beautiful sounding engine, lovely to look at. To hell with lap times. A bespoke v-10 that can rev high (8,500 rpm like the Huracan Evo) would produce a lovely exhaust note, and make it amazing to look at (lets make a real jump in aesthetics and blow the world away like Ford did with their new FGT). Ralph can certainly do it. Custom paint colors, interior colors, etc.

Make it a halo car again by keeping production very low (it always has been, but lets think no more than 500/yr), price it high (if the older cars are now going at $240k+, then let's start talking about that range), and always give first dibs to prior Viper owners (just like Ferrari does and Porsche does with their higher end). You get "points" based on months of ownership of Vipers (more cars, more months, more points).

Follow the FGT formula from here on out -- 2-3yr model cycles, and then pauses for 5-10yrs. You could be looking at $300k+ cars, but the market seems to want that these days. The more "special", the better.

Do something like that and you have a win, win, win scenario (Dodge brand gets mega image improvement, new owners get a sick machine at a reasonable price, and prior owners values stay high).

[Policy Limits]

In La-La land you are (yoda voice)

CAAP is a museum. It's over. Sit back & watch value predictions from policy limits circa 2016 come to life.

[Lawineer]

Problem is, I'm not sure how much that helps Dodge sell other cars once the price gets away from them. There aren't many people who buy $200k sports cars and pretty much any other vehicle in Dodge's lineup other than maybe the Ram (maybe the hellcat powered Durango or something) and low volume inherently means a low volume of people are affected. And they don't need any help selling the Rams. I think the high volume $50-90k performance lineup Dodge has serves them better than a low production $150k Viper would in terms of customer loyalty and such. Plus, at those price ranges, you're competing with a lot more cars that are a lot easier to sell than a car that wakes every morning screaming for the blood of its enemies.

Dodge sold what, 3000ish Gen 5s? 3000 x $ 90k each (rough average of what Dodge got after shipping, taxes, dealership take, etc). $270M of revenue. There is absolute zero chance they didn't lose their asses on this between marketing costs, development costs, factory, line workers (who make a crazy amount of money for what they do), the actual build costs, warranty costs, factory upkeep and cost, etc. That's a lot of money that could go towards building brand image. The idea behind a halo car is that it makes money while organically building customer loyalty.

Corvette is unique in that it's a high volume halo car in the price range of their other vehicles. Buy a corvette, love it, buy their other vehicles which are closer in price. They're also not losing money on Corvette and using an engine that is based off a mass produced SUV engine.