Another ACR on BAT

[Arizona Vipers]

I shouldn't even post these, always starts wars LOL
What's funny is you know it is going to sell for more money than what the exact same car is listed for much less money elsewhere. People on BAT just want what they want and spending 20% more on a car that they can get quickly is worth more to them than running around hunting down a car
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2017-dodge-viper-gts-r-final-edition/

[RCR88]

I guess if nothing else, it's just fun to guess the price. Like "The Price is Right" but for something I actually care about. I'll guess 242k

[13COBRA]

$250k

[Arizona Vipers]

Could probably get this one for $220K- https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=582006481
Private seller too, save a fortune on sales tax in states that don't tax private sellers (Like here in Arizona)

[StrokerAce]

Could probably get this one for $220K- https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=582006481
Private seller too, save a fortune on sales tax in states that don't tax private sellers (Like here in Arizona)

That's a GTC, is it a real ACR? :newbie:

Sorry, I couldn't resist. lol I am betting $261 hammer price.

[ACRSNK]

I say $260K

[Arizona Vipers]

I say $260K

So $30K over the other ones listed hehe. Instead of guessing a sales price, from now on we should guess how much the buyer is going to pay over the ones on auto trader. LOL

[ViperNC]

The GTS-R with 7000 miles last month went for $235K. I'll go with $268K on this one.

[Whiskey]

I say $249k...just to play devils advocate. Lol

[ACRSNK]

Changing mine to $263K

[SRT_BluByU]

$235k

[Mark1107]

Will be interesting.

[Scott_in_fl]

$227,500 is my guess.

If the same car was not available on AutoTrader for $230k, then I would say it could have pulled $240ish.

This is a legitimate problem with the GTSR's. Great cars, but there are 99 other owners of the identical car at any given time that one comes up on BAT, BJ, AT, etc. As soon as anyone posts an ad with a big price, you're likely to see several others immediately pop up for sale with lower prices. This "cockblocking" effect is real with 100 identical copies out there, most of them likely with very low miles.

If resale prices are your priority, then I like the prospects of the other serialized cars better because the series numbers are so much lower. 1:28 should become the SE resale winner, with only 28 copies and a significant "story" of its Laguna lap record.

[John19]

245k

[ViperJon]

1:28 should become the SE resale winner, with only 28 copies and a significant "story" of its Laguna lap record.

If you think the 1:28 commemorative has a more significant backstory and history than a GTS-R you are absolutely clueless about Viper history.

[13COBRA]

Let the fights commence!

[Ronin47]

$227,500 is my guess.

If the same car was not available on AutoTrader for $230k, then I would say it could have pulled $240ish.

This is a legitimate problem with the GTSR's. Great cars, but there are 99 other owners of the identical car at any given time that one comes up on BAT, BJ, AT, etc. As soon as anyone posts an ad with a big price, you're likely to see several others immediately pop up for sale with lower prices. This "cockblocking" effect is real with 100 identical copies out there, most of them likely with very low miles.

If resale prices are your priority, then I like the prospects of the other serialized cars better because the series numbers are so much lower. 1:28 should become the SE resale winner, with only 28 copies and a significant "story" of its Laguna lap record.

There are 2 more on ebay both with 1k miles. Asking prices are 232k and 234k.

[Policy Limits]

1/4 Mill

[Racingswh]

Be nice to see these going for over 300k. I often wish I had bought a GTS-R. They are my favorite.

[commandomatt]

It’s kind of funny looking at the comments on the BaT auction. Bunch of them being just people saying ‘I have one as well....# x’......like this is any useful info in regards to the car for sale.

Regardless, it’s really great to see what these are bringing in a relatively short time after production seized. Took the GT a lot longer it seems to get this kind of attention

[13COBRA]

It’s kind of funny looking at the comments on the BaT auction. Bunch of them being just people saying ‘I have one as well....# x’......like this is any useful info in regards to the car for sale.

Regardless, it’s really great to see what these are bringing in a relatively short time after production seized. Took the GT a lot longer it seems to get this kind of attention

As far as the comments go...BaT has basically become their own community. Off the wall comments on everything. I'm not sure if more comments plays into BaT's formula for higher displays or what.

Regarding the FGT, the economy is in a MUCH better position now than it was 4 years after the FGT was out of production haha

[Scott_in_fl]

If you think the 1:28 commemorative has a more significant backstory and history than a GTS-R you are absolutely clueless about Viper history.

Jon, are you familiar with the history?? The '98 GTSR commemorated the '97 FIA champion. It was a unique build in many ways from anything else that you could order. The 100 cars are worth something but sale prices are nothing crazy.

The '17 car does not commemorate any further achievement. It is not similar to the championship car, and is not a unique build from any of the other SE's or any other orderable car.

So yes, I know the history. I also know what drives values on automobiles. In fact, as predicted, a few more GTSRs have since popped up for sale to cockblock one another.

[Viperenvy]

Jon, are you familiar with the history?? The '98 GTSR commemorated the '97 FIA champion. It was a unique build in many ways from anything else that you could order. The 100 cars are worth something but sale prices are nothing crazy.

The '17 car does not commemorate any further achievement. It is not similar to the championship car, and is not a unique build from any of the other SE's or any other orderable car.

So yes, I know the history. I also know what drives values on automobiles. In fact, as predicted, a few more GTSRs have since popped up for sale to cockblock one another.

In my opinion, a jaded - rose colored glasses - fanboy, the 1998 GT2 Champion Edition (badged GTS-R) is the only Viper built to directly commemorate a series win(s). Everything else is a lap record. One heck of an achievement! However, only 100 Vipers can claim a direct connection to a Manufactures Championship and a Drivers Championship.

As for values of the things, well lets just say many would be shocked at what GT2s are trading for privately. The last one to sell publically was stolen by today's standards.



All of this said, I will yield to JonB. Whatever he says, I stand corrected. I learned so much from him about the GT2s, but bound to make a mistake or 10. What say you Jon?

[ViperSRT]

Value is a funny thing and sometimes you just can’t understand why one has higher value than another. Very clear the 98 GT2 was unique and did commemorate an actual winning race car. The 2017 carries the same very desirable livery and GTS-R naming. It is strange though as it is only the livery and GTS-R stickers that set it apart. Clearly it is one of the most common color combinations for Gen5 and the most common for 2017, so value is not based on rarity in any way. Kind of reminds me of Ford GT in the Gulf livery that also commands a premium, though it also commemorates only via the livery.

[Policy Limits]

Remember when the naysayers said it's just paint about the special editions? Lmao.

[Scott_in_fl]

Remember when the naysayers said it's just paint about the special editions? Lmao.

But Policy, you must admit that good 1-of-1 non-SE cars have so far done better than any of the SE serires cars. I believe all of the highest prices for 2017 ACR-E's are not SE cars.

[ACRSNK]

But Policy, you must admit that good 1-of-1 non-SE cars have so far done better than any of the SE serires cars. I believe all of the highest prices for 2017 ACR-E's are not SE cars.

I wouldn't agree with that statement and I still think your "logic" on the GTSR's is flawed. My reasoning for the same has already been discussed in a previous thread, and I don't really feel like repeating myself here, but it seems to me that that the SE cars pull higher numbers consistently when compared to non SE models.

[Scott_in_fl]

I thought the highest numbers had been non-SE cars from BJ.

These look to be the highest recorded sales (all prices are without Buyer's premium as far as I understand):

$286,000 -- 2017 Balloon White ACR-E (1-of-1 Paint Color Combo) -- BJ Palm Beach 2019
$269,500 -- 2016 Silver Tri-Color ACR-E -- BJ Scottsdale 2021
$231,000 -- 2017 ACR/TA -- BJ Scottsdale 2018
$229,900 -- 2017 Yorange/Black ACR Stripe -- BJ Fall 2020
$220,000 -- 2017 1:28 Edition (SE) -- BJ Scottsdale 2020

You can disagree with the facts and the logic, but you're fooling yourself.

Now, if you're aware of any higher prices for SE cars, then that would change things.

[commandomatt]

:fpopcorn:

[zee]

I thought the highest numbers had been non-SE cars from BJ.

These look to be the highest recorded sales (all prices are without Buyer's premium as far as I understand):

$286,000 -- 2017 Balloon White ACR-E (1-of-1 Paint Color Combo) -- BJ Palm Beach 2019
$269,500 -- 2016 Silver Tri-Color ACR-E -- BJ Scottsdale 2021
$231,000 -- 2017 ACR/TA -- BJ Scottsdale 2018
$229,900 -- 2017 Yorange/Black ACR Stripe -- BJ Fall 2020
$220,000 -- 2017 1:28 Edition (SE) -- BJ Scottsdale 2020

You can disagree with the facts and the logic, but you're fooling yourself.

Now, if you're aware of any higher prices for SE cars, then that would change things.

This one fetched $235k:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2017-dodge-viper-gts-r/

[ACRSNK]

This one fetched $235k:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2017-dodge-viper-gts-r/

He conveniently left that one out and hates when people disagree with him so you should probably delete your post. He’s going to be real upset when another SE sells later today and takes another top spot. He will then try to convince you that SE cars are not consistently bringing higher numbers than 1of1 ACR-E’s and then he will pull more numbers that bolster his argument and leave out numbers that don’t. He’s trying really hard to get people to buy into his views though, so you should cut him some slack. It’s not easy doing research on things like this and it’s even more work finding facts and figures and then leaving out pertinent information so you can make your point.

Also.... I hope no one mentions this, because it will be really upsetting to him, but 2 out of the 5 cars on his list are SE cars.

[ViperSRT]

Well, about 2 of every 5 2017 ACR is an SE. There are more 2017 SE cars in total than 2017 non SE ACR GTC cars.

[ViperJon]

Lot #1362: 2017 Dodge Viper GTS-R Nurburgring Edition #1
$242,000 SOLD. Just another worthless overproduced GTS-R with some stickers.

[BJG32]

Viper ACRE prices are in banana land. The less than 1000 of us owners should be high fiving. Im just glad I own one (real or fake lol)

[CarbonDan]

SE or non-SE, the never ending debate. It's pretty simple - they appeal to people in different ways.
I can tell you, as someone who spent a LONG time trying to buy my ACR-E, I was willing to pay a LARGE premium for:
GTS-R or a Purple with white stripes 1 of 1.
GTS-R Pros - historical scheme and factory selected paint scheme. Very broad appeal. Cons - 100 identical units.
1 of 1 Pros - the exact color scheme a buyer's heart yearns for, literally one of a kind. Cons - not a factory selected color scheme, might not be everyone's cup of tea.

Long term, there's so few ACR-E out there, and even fewer that are still running, and even fewer that are unmolested that they should all appreciate dramatically. I anticipate SE and 1 of 1s to trade blows as time goes on for market topper sales. I don't see any substantial reason for either a SE or 1 of 1 to start running away in price, to the point it outpaces any of the others. All ACR-Es and extreme GTCs should appreciate as time goes on.

[Arizona Vipers]

No sale at $230K.

[13COBRA]

No sale at $230K.

That's GFMotorsports' third auction...all no sales. I'd be surprised if BaT let's them list anymore.

[Arizona Vipers]

That's GFMotorsports' third auction...all no sales. I'd be surprised if BaT let's them list anymore.

Yeah, makes no sense to have a reserve set higher than what other ones are for sale for....

[13COBRA]

Yeah, makes no sense to have a reserve set higher than what other ones are for sale for....

Yeah... it doesn't make sense for someone to bid $230k for it and have to pay a 5% buyers fee either, when you can buy one for the advertised price for much less.

[ACRSNK]

Looks like there is another ACR/TA going up for auction soon. Car has 500 miles. Will be interesting to see what that pulls.

[CarbonDan]

Other problem is everyone is listing GTS-Rs all at the same time, makes no sense from a competitive standpoint.
Wait until there are none for sale, THEN list yours. If you're the only GTS-R available, then you are in a much better position compared to competing head to head with identical cars.

[Viperenvy]

Looks like there is another ACR/TA going up for auction soon. Car has 500 miles. Will be interesting to see what that pulls.

Which one?

[ACRSNK]

Which one?

The #9 car.

[Policy Limits]

2 out of the 5 cars on his list are SE cars.

Awww snap. But real SE cars have the 25th Anniversary dash plaque. So does the sticker slapper count? Hahaha

[catwood]

I'm going to put blue stripes on my real ACR and a couple of GTS-R stickers on the side and hit one of the auctions I think. Then I'm going to call it a 1 of 1 catwood edition and let the money fly in.......woohoo

[Scott_in_fl]

He conveniently left that one out and hates when people disagree with him so you should probably delete your post. He’s going to be real upset when another SE sells later today and takes another top spot. He will then try to convince you that SE cars are not consistently bringing higher numbers than 1of1 ACR-E’s and then he will pull more numbers that bolster his argument and leave out numbers that don’t. He’s trying really hard to get people to buy into his views though, so you should cut him some slack. It’s not easy doing research on things like this and it’s even more work finding facts and figures and then leaving out pertinent information so you can make your point.

Also.... I hope no one mentions this, because it will be really upsetting to him, but 2 out of the 5 cars on his list are SE cars.

ACRSNK you're fighting facts, which may make sense to you but nobody else. I'm not making this stuff up -- the highest prices on record are not SE cars. And the difference so far between the highest price non-SE car ($286k) to the highest price SE car ($235k) is substantial. Those are the facts.... and they are undisputed.

Now, all of that said, perhaps you've missed my main point from all of my prior threads -- that the overall number of final year ACR-E's, somewhere around 700 cars, means that every single one of them will see massive appreciation today, tomorrow, 5 years from now, 20 years from now. Moreover, I see the highest prices coming from SE cars and the better 1-of-1 cars, followed by standard colors, etc.

So I don't know who pissed in your porridge, but I sure didn't. In fact, I've been one of two of the most vocal proponents of skyrocketing prices of cars like yours (the other being my esteemed colleague, Policy :)). I called the massive increase in hard asset pricing years ago, provided the analysis of increasing global wealth, permanent pissany interest rates, endless money printing, etc., all as reasons for the increases.

So I'm on top of this issue and I always welcome additional facts to use in the analysis. As I said in my prior post, if you have something that I'm missing -- that would change the analysis -- then let me know. But an SE sale at $235k does not change the fact that a non-SE car has sold for $286k.

PS -- Look above for my guess on the GTSR listing that is the topic of this thread -- $227,500. Within $2,500 of the eventual no-sale bid. How could I be so accurate with my guess? Because of exactly what I mentioned earlier. With 100 cars, you have sellers waiting in the wings to cockblock any ad with a price more than that for now. If someone is willing to sell an identical car for $230k on AT, why would anyone pay more for it on another site? And guess what, another GTSR popped up after that. So if there is plenty of supply at $230k, how can prices get substantially above that until that supply is cleared out (and then there will be more supply at $240k, $250k, etc.)? This is a real issue that may persist for years to come as just about everyone with a GTSR is now ordering moth balls from Amazon. Of course, the market will rise naturally due to external factors that I described above, but runaway pricing cannot occur on this model for the foreseeable future imo.

[commandomatt]

I'm going to put blue stripes on my real ACR and a couple of GTS-R stickers on the side and hit one of the auctions I think. Then I'm going to call it a 1 of 1 catwood edition and let the money fly in.......woohoo

You are on the right track. You have to do something since you probably noticed that none of the high priced sold cars to date are ‘real acrs’.

[catwood]

You are on the right track. You have to do something since you probably noticed that none of the high priced sold cars to date are ‘real acrs’.

I have a GTC clone

[TIME]

Looks like there is another ACR/TA going up for auction soon. Car has 500 miles. Will be interesting to see what that pulls.

Where do see what is going up for auction on BaT, please?
Thanks

[ACRSNK]

Where do see what is going up for auction on BaT, please?
Thanks

I didn't say it was on BaT. I saw that car on teh Hemmings site and it shows that it is slated for auction.

[ACRSNK]

ACRSNK you're fighting facts, which may make sense to you but nobody else. I'm not making this stuff up -- the highest prices on record are not SE cars. And the difference so far between the highest price non-SE car ($286k) to the highest price SE car ($235k) is substantial. Those are the facts.... and they are undisputed.

Now, all of that said, perhaps you've missed my main point from all of my prior threads -- that the overall number of final year ACR-E's, somewhere around 700 cars, means that every single one of them will see massive appreciation today, tomorrow, 5 years from now, 20 years from now. Moreover, I see the highest prices coming from SE cars and the better 1-of-1 cars, followed by standard colors, etc.

So I don't know who pissed in your porridge, but I sure didn't. In fact, I've been one of two of the most vocal proponents of skyrocketing prices of cars like yours (the other being my esteemed colleague, Policy :)). I called the massive increase in hard asset pricing years ago, provided the analysis of increasing global wealth, permanent pissany interest rates, endless money printing, etc., all as reasons for the increases.

So I'm on top of this issue and I always welcome additional facts to use in the analysis. As I said in my prior post, if you have something that I'm missing -- that would change the analysis -- then let me know. But an SE sale at $235k does not change the fact that a non-SE car has sold for $286k.

PS -- Look above for my guess on the GTSR listing that is the topic of this thread -- $227,500. Within $2,500 of the eventual no-sale bid. How could I be so accurate with my guess? Because of exactly what I mentioned earlier. With 100 cars, you have sellers waiting in the wings to cockblock any ad with a price more than that for now. If someone is willing to sell an identical car for $230k on AT, why would anyone pay more for it on another site? And guess what, another GTSR popped up after that. So if there is plenty of supply at $230k, how can prices get substantially above that until that supply is cleared out (and then there will be more supply at $240k, $250k, etc.)? This is a real issue that may persist for years to come as just about everyone with a GTSR is now ordering moth balls from Amazon. Of course, the market will rise naturally due to external factors that I described above, but runaway pricing cannot occur on this model for the foreseeable future imo.

I can't argue with a genius and I already said my piece on the matter more than once. The fact that you point out one sale of a non SE car and think it is the end all is laughable. I am saying and have said that the SE cars consistently bring higher dollars than non SE cars, but you are apparently stuck on the one sale you continue to comment on, which has nothing to do with what I'm saying. In the end, I hope they all continue to bring strong money, which by the looks of it they will.

P.S. You should open up a fortune telling business in addition to whatever else it is that you do. Your pinpoint accuracy for all things financial is astounding.

[Policy Limits]

SE cars are the next Heritage Edition FGT.:jerry:

[Scott_in_fl]

I can't argue with a genius and I already said my piece on the matter more than once. The fact that you point out one sale of a non SE car and think it is the end all is laughable. I am saying and have said that the SE cars consistently bring higher dollars than non SE cars, but you are apparently stuck on the one sale you continue to comment on, which has nothing to do with what I'm saying. In the end, I hope they all continue to bring strong money, which by the looks of it they will.

P.S. You should open up a fortune telling business in addition to whatever else it is that you do. Your pinpoint accuracy for all things financial is astounding.

Well, that misstates my position. If you can read, I've always said that SE's and very good 1-of-1's will be the top of the market -- they will outprice the other, non-SE's that are standard color combinations. That means that SE's will consistently sell for more than most non-SE's, which sounds like your position (and which is an obvious conclusion that I don't think anyone here has ever contested).

Where the real argument is lies is whether SE's or very good 1-of-1's will outpace the other. This is pure banter and fun, so take it at that.

I believe that very good, special 1-of-1's are far more rare than any of the SE's and likely impossible to obtain because their owners are now holders. Think Stryker purple with silver stripes, Stryker green with black stripes, etc., etc. There may be less than 20 such cars that fall into that category of unique and desirable color combinations, some with special color codes that have never appeared on any other Viper in any other year.

My argument (and you seem to argue otherwise) is that those sorts of cars will set the top of the market. Yes, above the SE cars because the really wealthy folks love the feeling that they have the only one of something, like original art (or better yet, read up on NFT's). We've seen some evidence of that with the balloon white car -- an incredibly unique, true 1-of-1, in a ridiculously insane color that has never been done before on any Viper, ever. That's cool, and apparently highly desirable as indicated by its record sale price of $286k without buyers premium.

So that's that. Don't misstate arguments in an effort to bolster your own. It's a poor debate technique that is easily exposed and results in a loss of credibility for your position. Instead, why not properly meet the argument head on with some meaningful analysis or factual support? Do you have a position regarding the very desirable 1-of-1's like Stryker purple with blk/red ACR stripes? Do you think an SE outprices it if both were to come up for sale at the same time?

[13COBRA]

The continued fighting on this form about values and future values is obnoxiously overplayed. Just pull out a ruler at home and keep the measuring to yourself.

[ViperJon]

The continued fighting on this form about values and future values is obnoxiously overplayed. Just pull out a ruler at home and keep the measuring to yourself.

It's really only one clown in search of some sort of validation because he didn't get a special edition or a desirable one of one. So he consistently posts negative or backhanded compliments about other peoples colors/models to make himself feel better and begs for agreement. Huge insecurity issue been going on for years. I have him on ignore now.

[13COBRA]

It's really only one clown in search of some sort of validation because he didn't get a special edition or a desirable one of one. So he consistently posts negative or backhanded compliments about other peoples colors/models to make himself feel better and begs for agreement. Huge insecurity issue been going on for years. I have him on ignore now.

lol that's one way of handling it.

[John19]

SE cars are the next Heritage Edition FGT.:jerry:

Or a Heritage Edition Viper.... 1 of 1


4764547645

[TIME]

I didn't say it was on BaT. I saw that car on teh Hemmings site and it shows that it is slated for auction.

Got it. Thanks.

[ViperTony]

Or a Heritage Edition Viper.... 1 of 1

That's an awesome color....beautiful!

[John19]

That's an awesome color....beautiful!

Thanks! She only has 730 mi.

[Policy Limits]

So bad ass!

[Scott_in_fl]

It's really only one clown in search of some sort of validation because he didn't get a special edition or a desirable one of one. So he consistently posts negative or backhanded compliments about other peoples colors/models to make himself feel better and begs for agreement. Huge insecurity issue been going on for years. I have him on ignore now.

Jon, you're wrong.

It's really a few GTSR "clowns" that refuse to acknowledge the reality that their cars are appreciating at the same (or slower) rate as every other non-GTSR SE and even many non-SE's.

And we all know that you're not ignoring anyone. You're one of the bigger antagonists on this forum.

Please prove me wrong by never responding to another post of mine ever again :smilielol:

[Arizona Vipers]

Jon, you're wrong.

It's really a few GTSR "clowns" that refuse to acknowledge the reality that their cars are appreciating at the same (or slower) rate as every other non-GTSR SE and even many non-SE's.

And we all know that you're not ignoring anyone. You're one of the bigger antagonists on this forum.

Please prove me wrong by never responding to another post of mine ever again :smilielol:

I think if anyone really cares that much about a 10% increase/decrease of the value of a car they bought, they had no business buying the car anyway.....

[ACRSNK]

Well, that misstates my position. If you can read, I've always said that SE's and very good 1-of-1's will be the top of the market -- they will outprice the other, non-SE's that are standard color combinations. That means that SE's will consistently sell for more than most non-SE's, which sounds like your position (and which is an obvious conclusion that I don't think anyone here has ever contested).

Where the real argument is lies is whether SE's or very good 1-of-1's will outpace the other. This is pure banter and fun, so take it at that.

I believe that very good, special 1-of-1's are far more rare than any of the SE's and likely impossible to obtain because their owners are now holders. Think Stryker purple with silver stripes, Stryker green with black stripes, etc., etc. There may be less than 20 such cars that fall into that category of unique and desirable color combinations, some with special color codes that have never appeared on any other Viper in any other year.

My argument (and you seem to argue otherwise) is that those sorts of cars will set the top of the market. Yes, above the SE cars because the really wealthy folks love the feeling that they have the only one of something, like original art (or better yet, read up on NFT's). We've seen some evidence of that with the balloon white car -- an incredibly unique, true 1-of-1, in a ridiculously insane color that has never been done before on any Viper, ever. That's cool, and apparently highly desirable as indicated by its record sale price of $286k without buyers premium.

So that's that. Don't misstate arguments in an effort to bolster your own. It's a poor debate technique that is easily exposed and results in a loss of credibility for your position. Instead, why not properly meet the argument head on with some meaningful analysis or factual support? Do you have a position regarding the very desirable 1-of-1's like Stryker purple with blk/red ACR stripes? Do you think an SE outprices it if both were to come up for sale at the same time?

Now you’re writing the rules on how people argue/debate matters? Too funny. You have some serious control issues. I’m also not sure if the balloon white car is the highest recorded sale for an ACR-E. I believe that was a member’s car and recall that it was advertised here for a while at like $145K. I think the seller of that car got extremely lucky at the time it was sold to some drunk guy at auction. Nevertheless I’m glad those numbers continue to climb. All Vipers are going up and from the looks of it should continue to do well which is great for all owners. Makes the ownership experience that much nicer.

I do have a quick question for you though....when you were a kid how many times did you grab your ball and leave the playground in an angry fury when the other kids didn’t play by your rules? Also, did you show up to the playground a couple days later and lecture those same kids about how what they did was wrong and what they should have otherwise done? Maybe some chatter about owning hard assets in the future? Did they care about anything you were saying? Did you get a lot of wedgies growing up? Just wondering if there is a pattern here.

[Policy Limits]

Let's just agree that the car is in the minority of vehicles that actually appreciates instead of the usual depreciating asset.

It took the countach decades to break out. The same is true of the Diablo. The ACR-E is on a faster path than the Ford GT. It took the Spyker a longer time to climb up. It's pretty amazing.

It's going to be 70 degrees this weekend & I look forward to driving mine and banging some gears.

[ViperJon]

Good idea Policy. I'm probably going to a benefit car show this weekend for the local fire department. I sure hope ten other GTS-R's don't show up being so common. Oh that's right there are no other ones here on Long Island (pop 7,000,000). :)

[Scott_in_fl]

Let's just agree that the car is in the minority of vehicles that actually appreciates instead of the usual depreciating asset.

It took the countach decades to break out. The same is true of the Diablo. The ACR-E is on a faster path than the Ford GT. It took the Spyker a longer time to climb up. It's pretty amazing.

It's going to be 70 degrees this weekend & I look forward to driving mine and banging some gears.

Excellent idea.

But.... I'm seeing that we're not the only ones with appreciating values on a used car. Just about everything even semi-desirable is seeing massive pops. Buddy of mine just showed me a Camaro ZL1 that sold for $106k. That car MSRP's at $80k. Another friend told me about a couple year old Z06 that the owner purchased used last year with low miles, sold it last week for $15k more than he paid -- dealers were calling on the ad offering to pay full pop.

So there is definitely a bit of froth in the current used car market, some of it no doubt spilling over onto ACR-Es (and likely all other Vipers) even though we had been rising even pre-Covid. The cars are of course no doubt still appreciating and heading higher but we can't calculate a "track" or trend based on current market conditions. Countach, Diablo, FGT have risen considerably pre-Covid and now, and we should expect that whatever average slope can be calculated from those cars to be similarly applicable to ours. But we likely see a regression back to the mean before we see an appreciable rise higher again.

Now, given that all of those cars share very similar aspects of being the last great naturally aspirated, gated, awesome sounding fuel burners, there should be an increasing trajectory as we approach the phase out of ICE's nearing 2030. If you can hold that long, then you should be rewarded very nicely whenever you decide to finally sell.

[13COBRA]

Alright, I'm convinced. I'm going to re-mortgage my house 3 times, and cash in my 401K to buy 25 Viper ACR-Es to hold on to for the next 7-8 years, then ten fold my money.

Thanks for the heads up Scott!

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ LOL, until you realize that your house is also increasing 10x by then too! Hard assets are nutty right now. Cash is the only place you DO NOT want to be.

[13COBRA]

^^^ LOL, until you realize that your house is also increasing 10x by then too! Hard assets are nutty right now. Cash is the only place you DO NOT want to be.

If my house appreciates 10x's in the next 7-8 years, I'll buy you two ACR-Es.

[StrokerAce]

Wow.

[Ronin47]

Alright, I'm convinced. I'm going to re-mortgage my house 3 times, and cash in my 401K to buy 25 Viper ACR-Es to hold on to for the next 7-8 years, then ten fold my money.

Thanks for the heads up Scott!

Lol you'll be lucky to find 5 acr-e to buy right now.

[Lawineer]

Everything is going up in value, but vipers are especially going up.
As a new owner, I think it's because previously, a lot of people didn't want them due to the death trap, low quality stigma of the previous generations. Then this generation came out and owners love them and don't sell them. And they're pretty unique not just in that there are very few vipers, but because they can't possibly be confused for anything else. My C7 got called a ferrari and other stupid stuff. No one has anything what the hell the viper is unless they're a car person.

[Mark1107]

I think that was Gerry Wood's personal car that he said he would never sell and give to his sons...I guess he sold it. Gorgeous and rare spec! I think the only heritage painted ACRE.


Or a Heritage Edition Viper.... 1 of 1


4764547645

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ Brad Wood.

[Larryskillzs]

I think that was Gerry Wood's personal car that he said he would never sell and give to his sons...I guess he sold it. Gorgeous and rare spec! I think the only heritage painted ACRE.


I saw this car at the Conner Ave plant along with a bunch of other 1 of 1's. I think we were one of the last groups to go though. It was a great memory to have.

I look at all Gen 5 Vipers as special. I also know I can probably beat 95% of the ACR guys on track with my lowly 15' SRT I purchased new 6 years ago. Lol.

I always knew Vipers were special, but I think for most Gen 5 owners, we are not selling so value does not matter. I always say I'll let my kids sort what to do with the Viper when I die.

I gotta go now and prep my Gen 5 for Sebring International, because I buy track cars to use them for what they are supposed to do, track them.

Viper is not an investment. FYI

[John19]

^^^ Brad Wood.

Correct, I purchased from Brad. He was great to deal with and a true Viper enthusiast.

[commandomatt]

I think that was Gerry Wood's personal car that he said he would never sell and give to his sons...I guess he sold it. Gorgeous and rare spec! I think the only heritage painted ACRE.

Brad Wood was our best friend and #1 Viper fan when he had his big inventory of cars

When they were all sold, he disappeared back to being just a car salesman.........what a surprise.

[13COBRA]

Brad Wood was our best friend and #1 Viper fan when he had his big inventory of cars

When they were all sold, he disappeared back to being just a car salesman.........what a surprise.

lolol Yeah...

[Arizona Vipers]

Brad Wood was our best friend and #1 Viper fan when he had his big inventory of cars

When they were all sold, he disappeared back to being just a car salesman.........what a surprise.

lmao

[Scott_in_fl]

Eh, that's a bit rough. Unlike the notion that attaches to "just another car salesman", Brad is a really nice guy, a true car enthusiast, and obviously a very savvy dealer principal. Just because he does not post on our forum or make Insta vids anymore, does not change any of that imo. I genuinely believe that he bought the car because he loves Vipers (they had an ACR dealership race car) and intended to keep it (he special ordered it for himself).

The problem is that (a) he owns a car dealership and (b) prices were comparably high on ACR-E's when he decided to throw a number out there and list it for sale. Every dealer principal I know (I represent dealers regularly), if faced with an opportunity to sell something out of their garage for a handsome profit, would do so in a blink. To those guys, cars are widgets. They all have cool stuff in the garage, and everything is always for sale no matter what they say. They just never get attached to anything. A very, very close friend (and dealer principal) cannot hold onto anything longer than 6-8 months even though he always swears that he's tired of switching out cars, loves the current toy in the garage (now a GT2RS), and wants to keep it for a long time. I call BS every time I hear it.

[13COBRA]

Eh, that's a bit rough. Unlike the notion that attaches to "just another car salesman", Brad is a really nice guy, a true car enthusiast, and obviously a very savvy dealer principal. Just because he does not post on our forum or make Insta vids anymore, does not change any of that imo. I genuinely believe that he bought the car because he loves Vipers (they had an ACR dealership race car) and intended to keep it (he special ordered it for himself).

The problem is that (a) he owns a car dealership and (b) prices were comparably high on ACR-E's when he decided to throw a number out there and list it for sale. Every dealer principal I know (I represent dealers regularly), if faced with an opportunity to sell something out of their garage for a handsome profit, would do so in a blink. To those guys, cars are widgets. They all have cool stuff in the garage, and everything is always for sale no matter what they say.

I'm typically the same way. Hell, I sold my 2021 GT500 Carbon Fiber Track Package car before it even arrived.

[Scott_in_fl]

I'm typically the same way. Hell, I sold my 2021 GT500 Carbon Fiber Track Package car before it even arrived.

Ha, that's hilarious. But you know what??? That was the right decision! :icon_devil:

[commandomatt]

Eh, that's a bit rough. Unlike the notion that attaches to "just another car salesman", Brad is a really nice guy, a true car enthusiast, and obviously a very savvy dealer principal. Just because he does not post on our forum or make Insta vids anymore, does not change any of that imo. I genuinely believe that he bought the car because he loves Vipers (they had an ACR dealership race car) and intended to keep it (he special ordered it for himself).

The problem is that (a) he owns a car dealership and (b) prices were comparably high on ACR-E's when he decided to throw a number out there and list it for sale. Every dealer principal I know (I represent dealers regularly), if faced with an opportunity to sell something out of their garage for a handsome profit, would do so in a blink. To those guys, cars are widgets. They all have cool stuff in the garage, and everything is always for sale no matter what they say. They just never get attached to anything. A very, very close friend (and dealer principal) cannot hold onto anything longer than 6-8 months even though he always swears that he's tired of switching out cars, loves the current toy in the garage (now a GT2RS), and wants to keep it for a long time. I call BS every time I hear it.

You can say what you want but you typically go by the facts. Fact is that he was on here several times a day as long as he had inventory. When that was gone....so was he.

In my book, that means that the only reason he was here was because he wanted to move those cars and that makes him just another car salesman.

[13COBRA]

Ha, that's hilarious. But you know what??? That was the right decision! :icon_devil:

I guess so.


You can say what you want but you typically go by the facts. Fact is that he was on here several times a day as long as he had inventory. When that was gone....so was he.

In my book, that means that the only reason he was here was because he wanted to move those cars and that makes him just another car salesman.

I guess since I stick around, and don't even sell Vipers, I'm one of the good guys? :web_driver:

[ACRSNK]

Brad Wood did a lot of people a HUGE favor by selling the ACR's he bought at sticker. He should at least be commended for that as he was the only game in town at that point and could have gouged people if he wanted to. Everyone wanted one at that point and it didn't take long for him to move the 300 + cars that he bought.

[commandomatt]

I guess so.



I guess since I stick around, and don't even sell Vipers, I'm one of the good guys? :web_driver:

Well, that’s pushing it....but okay. You qualify

[Scott_in_fl]

Yeah, that Gerry/Brad Wood saga was an important chapter in Viper history. They were the first ones to step up and really ring the bell about the value in these cars. They say "put your money where your mouth is" and those guys did exactly that.

When most dealers were lucky to sell a single car, when FCA was wondering how they would meet their commitment with suppliers, and when sales forecasts were bleak for Viper (no doubt contributing largely to the decision to pull the plug), these guys walked into the room and said "we'll take them all".

Just like when JP Morgan said "I'm a buyer" in the midst of the 1929 stock market crash, the Wood brothers were legitimately the first objective event to reverse the downward trend of buying interest in the Gen V.

Of course, it helped that FCA released the lap records around the same time, that journos like Chris Harris started applauding the car, etc., etc. But the Wood brothers were in front of it and it also helped that they took full advantage of the 1-of-1 program, built some sick color combos, and paraded them on social media.

One could argue that all of it really set the interest in motion that we are benefitting from now and potentially long into the future.

[13COBRA]

Well, that’s pushing it....but okay. You qualify

Thanks for your vote ;)


Yeah, that Gerry/Brad Wood saga was an important chapter in Viper history. They were the first ones to step up and really ring the bell about the value in these cars. They say "put your money where your mouth is" and those guys did exactly that.

When most dealers were lucky to sell a single car, when FCA was wondering how they would meet their commitment with suppliers, and when sales forecasts were bleak for Viper (no doubt contributing largely to the decision to pull the plug), these guys walked into the room and said "we'll take them all".

Just like when JP Morgan said "I'm a buyer" in the midst of the 1929 stock market crash, the Wood brothers were legitimately the first objective event to reverse the downward trend of buying interest in the Gen V.

Of course, it helped that FCA released the lap records around the same time, that journos like Chris Harris started applauding the car, etc., etc. But the Wood brothers were in front of it and it also helped that they took full advantage of the 1-of-1 program, built some sick color combos, and paraded them on social media.

One could argue that all of it really set the interest in motion that we are benefitting from now and potentially long into the future.

It was a no-brainer on their end. Chrysler would back them if it went crazy bad, and they would have cash cows if it went well.

[Racingswh]

It was a no-brainer on their end. Chrysler would back them if it went crazy bad, and they would have cash cows if it went well.

Do you happen to know what profit was selling at sticker? I also see the number mentioned 300 cars? Is that correct? They sold 300 ACR-E's and ACR's or Gen V's total?

I was guessing $30k GP per car? I honestly have no idea.

I really liked seeing all of the cool colors they brought in. It was pretty awesome!!

[13COBRA]

Do you happen to know what profit was selling at sticker? I also see the number mentioned 300 cars? Is that correct? They sold 300 ACR-E's and ACR's or Gen V's total?

I was guessing $30k GP per car? I honestly have no idea.

I really liked seeing all of the cool colors they brought in. It was pretty awesome!!

$30k? No, I wish that was realistic.

I would guess anywhere from $7-10k at full sticker.

I believe they sold 300 Gen V's total.

[John19]

Yeah, that Gerry/Brad Wood saga was an important chapter in Viper history. They were the first ones to step up and really ring the bell about the value in these cars. They say "put your money where your mouth is" and those guys did exactly that.

When most dealers were lucky to sell a single car, when FCA was wondering how they would meet their commitment with suppliers, and when sales forecasts were bleak for Viper (no doubt contributing largely to the decision to pull the plug), these guys walked into the room and said "we'll take them all".

Just like when JP Morgan said "I'm a buyer" in the midst of the 1929 stock market crash, the Wood brothers were legitimately the first objective event to reverse the downward trend of buying interest in the Gen V.

Of course, it helped that FCA released the lap records around the same time, that journos like Chris Harris started applauding the car, etc., etc. But the Wood brothers were in front of it and it also helped that they took full advantage of the 1-of-1 program, built some sick color combos, and paraded them on social media.

One could argue that all of it really set the interest in motion that we are benefitting from now and potentially long into the future.


Well said.
For the record the car I bought was not listed for sale to my knowledge, I was just in the right place at the right time.
The Viper went out in a great way and Brad and his team contributed to that a lot with all the 1 of 1 cars they ordered. I don't know how anyone can say he is just another salesman.

[13COBRA]

Do you happen to know what profit was selling at sticker? I also see the number mentioned 300 cars? Is that correct? They sold 300 ACR-E's and ACR's or Gen V's total?

I was guessing $30k GP per car? I honestly have no idea.

I really liked seeing all of the cool colors they brought in. It was pretty awesome!!

Here's a good thread, I was pretty close in my speculation!

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/19161-Saw-an-interesting-post-of-dealer-markups-for-the-2017-Viper

[Racingswh]

Here's a good thread, I was pretty close in my speculation!

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/19161-Saw-an-interesting-post-of-dealer-markups-for-the-2017-Viper

Thanks. Appreciate you sharing that.

[outnumbered]

I think that was Gerry Wood's personal car that he said he would never sell and give to his sons...I guess he sold it. Gorgeous and rare spec! I think the only heritage painted ACRE.

I do believe Brad still has one of these in his garage. A guy that was looking at my car a couple of months ago was also looking at Brads. He had a pic of it and said that Brad was asking $350k. I saw it advertised on Autotrader back in February.

[Policy Limits]

My 401(k) supplement is snoozing at the moment. Ha ha ha.

Seriously we are so fortunate to own these cars. Enjoy them while in good health. Life can change forever in a heartbeat.

[ACRSNK]

Ain’t that the truth!!!

[Mark1107]

I remember when viper sales were languishing and I was the first person to catch Brad Wood Gerry Wood buying up all of the remaining stock. I posted it on here. I then contacted Tavarish and Patrick George at Jalopnik and they ran a story on my tip. Then it snowballed.

Guys: Fortune favors the bold! Brad made a killing and nobody else stepped up. It’s part of our hisstory and a cool one. It’s too bad Dodge stella artois fuca left us in the dirt, obsessed with 20 year old challengers which are cool, and T-rx trucks, but they need non-Ferrari halo cars and srt racing back. Oh well I’m just a wannabe fan boy who is amazed at how insane the market is right now. I wish my crypto would grow so I can get back in the game! Lol.

[Mark1107]

Amen! As they say on the Rolex forums: ENJOY IT IN GOOD HEALTH!


My 401(k) supplement is snoozing at the moment. Ha ha ha.

Seriously we are so fortunate to own these cars. Enjoy them while in good health. Life can change forever in a heartbeat.

[Racingswh]

Guys: Fortune favors the bold! Brad made a killing and nobody else stepped up.

I wish my crypto would grow so I can get back in the game! Lol..

Interesting how perceptions differ. I felt just the opposite. I am surprised the dealer made so little on all of those cars. 9 or 10 million in GP made more sense to me. I had no idea margins were so thin on cars you get full price on. There has to be more to it that I don't understand.

I am finding I need to trade crypto to see nice returns in the near term. Polygon moved up and down 10% twice on Thursday, up over 100% in the past 7 days and is now sliding back. SKL moves about 14% up and down quite often. Have to trade it and take advantage of the volatility. The HODL (hold on for dear life) philosophy is for Reddit retail investors by the looks of it.

Sorry to take this so far off track.

[Scott_in_fl]

Interesting how perceptions differ. I felt just the opposite. I am surprised the dealer made so little on all of those cars. 9 or 10 million in GP made more sense to me. I had no idea margins were so thin on cars you get full price on. There has to be more to it that I don't understand.

I am finding I need to trade crypto to see nice returns in the near term. Polygon moved up and down 10% twice on Thursday, up over 100% in the past 7 days and is now sliding back. SKL moves about 14% up and down quite often. Have to trade it and take advantage of the volatility. The HODL (hold on for dear life) philosophy is for Reddit retail investors by the looks of it.

Sorry to take this so far off track.

Lots of FUD moving those things around lately. A wild ride for sure!

[Mark1107]

FUD & FOMO are both driving crypto & stock market volatility and the market value of vipers through the roof.

[Scott_in_fl]

FUD & FOMO are both driving crypto & stock market volatility and the market value of vipers through the roof.

Last night someone mentioned imagine what happens when Apple announces that it has put 10% of its cash into BTC. It is inevitable for cos with large cash reserves to rotate at least a small portion into BTC ala TSLA. And when that snowball starts rolling, then Katie bar the door!

Okay, back to Gen V talk

[nitromilt]

^^^ Brad Wood.

whith all the debate on whats the rarest ect.ect. I put a hard number on my 1:28 with 228 miles....lotsa calls.....all talk no cash....THEN, one day got a call asked if car was still for sale, said yes....the person calling asked the price which was not for negotiating......i recieved a large good faith deposit last week...balance will be wired to my account when the car is loaded on transport,,,,,,and just for FYI...... special edition low numbers made cars are still in first place

[ViperJon]

whith all the debate on whats the rarest ect.ect. I put a hard number on my 1:28 with 228 miles....lotsa calls.....all talk no cash....THEN, one day got a call asked if car was still for sale, said yes....the person calling asked the price which was not for negotiating......i recieved a large good faith deposit last week...balance will be wired to my account when the car is loaded on transport,,,,,,and just for FYI...... special edition low numbers made cars are still in first place

You were fortunate no one bought it when you originally had it for sale before the boom hit.

[Racingswh]

Last night someone mentioned imagine what happens when Apple announces that it has put 10% of its cash into BTC. It is inevitable for cos with large cash reserves to rotate at least a small portion into BTC ala TSLA. And when that snowball starts rolling, then Katie bar the door!

Okay, back to Gen V talk

That radical volatility is what I find most attractive and really why I find talk about car valuations quite humdrum. They get really heated and folks get pretty defensive one way or another and I have never understood why. All Vipers are pretty awesome to me. Some colors and versions definitely catch my attention more. I happen to like the GTS-R and Cable's Red with White stripes myself.

Is it cool that you could have a car for awhile, especially one as special as a Viper, and then sell it for more than you paid when you bought it new? Yeah that's cool and doesn't happen all that often, at least not to me.

Not right or wrong but for me cars and trucks are just the means. The end is either getting from point A to B, carrying tires, towing a trailer and most of all with cars like the Viper it's having fun with my family and friends. How much they cost, how much they will be worth in the future etc really doesn't mean a whole lot to me. For me it's the memories made and the stories that I will always cherish and for that the Viper has been just an incredible car.

[Policy Limits]

So true. Just today I took my little guy for his first ride in the Viper ever! Watching him laugh & smile when gears banged was priceless. He loved the exhaust note too. His air guitar was the best though...a memory that will last a lifetime.

Then he saw the dash plaque named for the owner and said I could never sell it....kids are so smart sometimes!

[John19]

I do believe Brad still has one of these in his garage. A guy that was looking at my car a couple of months ago was also looking at Brads. He had a pic of it and said that Brad was asking $350k. I saw it advertised on Autotrader back in February.

What color was that car?

[outnumbered]

Your color. When did you get yours from him?

[John19]

October of last year. He did not have 2 Heritage Vipers though.

[Racingswh]

October of last year. He did not have 2 Heritage Vipers though.

He was pretty quick in an ACR-E. A couple track records as I recall. The car he used was like mint green or something. Looked like a wild color wrap if my memory serves me correctly. I see so many cars I could be way off.

Yep. Thought I was right. This is rolling in a stock street car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ0JcHf_1P4


I have always liked the Heritage colors. You have a beautiful car!!

[John19]

Thank you! I do remember the green car you reference, I wonder if he still has that one.

[outnumbered]

October of last year. He did not have 2 Heritage Vipers though.

Hmm...I was told it was in his garage now.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe this was your car? Did your car have 486 miles when you bought it?

[John19]

Hmm...I was told it was in his garage now.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe this was your car? Did your car have 486 miles when you bought it?

That is my car. Mileage was 630ish when I bought it. I have that same picture in my phone. Here is a pic of it in my garage now...
47694

[John19]

The guy that was looking at yours a few months ago was not looking at Brad's because it has been in my garage since last year. I'm not sure what car he says he was looking at, maybe he was blowing smoke....

[outnumbered]

The guy that was looking at yours a few months ago was not looking at Brad's because it has been in my garage since last year. I'm not sure what car he says he was looking at, maybe he was blowing smoke....

That could very well be the case.

[sssammm]

Where did you get your cover from?

[ACRSNK]

Where did you get your cover from?

Most likely the one that came with the car.

[John19]

Where did you get your cover from?

Brad gave it to me when I purchased the car. He actually gave me 2 that are identical. One is still new in the box and never used. He gave me quite a few other Viper goodies, some of them were items only available to dealers.