Facebook Groups

[V10Sidepipes]

So can someone explain the Facebook situation here? (Apologies for the mobile site links... not on my laptop).

The upper right ‘f’ icon on the forum pages takes you to:
https://m.facebook.com/driveviper

Then, there is a Viper Owners Association group on Facebook that claims to be “an extension of the VOA forums”:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/BestViperClub/

Is the 2nd page actually “an extension of the VOA forums” or is it run independently and not actually affiliated?

[Hootie]

I see you got a Gen 3. Not a good time to be in the Facebook group right now lol.

I also am not sure if there is a real affiliation but the moderators there seem to be the same VOA people. But it's fallen into a complete sh!t show in the last 48 hours. Kinda embarrassing for the VOA.

[Fatboy 18]

I agree, what might have started off as a friendly jibe has now got to be like a chimps tea party! This forum stays pretty straight with helpful information, but Facebook is a whole other planet!

[Hootie]

If that group is managed by the actual VOA, they should revisit the bylaws and code of conduct because it's gone well past a joke and the admins seem to be getting in on the fun instead of moderating.
If it's not officially a VOA group then sure let it roll; if you don't like it you're free to leave.
Honestly, as a paid member, it's a big turn off that we're signed up to be part of the 'best' viper club around, and the hateful bashing is just allowed to continue. If I was on the fence about joining, I sure wouldn't at this point.

[Rare Snake]

Not gonna lie. One of the first places I went this morning was to the Gen 3 section to see if anyone dragged it back here. And I rarely go in there.

I think some people are taking this whole thing way too seriously. Myself, I think the last couple of days FB has been an absolute riot. We are lucky to have such a comedic group of entertainers out there, and the memes are some of the best I have EVER seen. Other groups I am part of never never seem to cut loose and get goofy like that, they are always so dry and serious, I might even say boring. Other than only a couple of very obviously questionable comments, it seems like pretty much everyone has jumped in just to have a little fun. Heck, if we can't laugh at ourselves, we shouldn't laugh at anyone.

Even if I had a Gen 3 (I still want a yellow one) I would have been lmao just as hard. We obviously couldn't keep this up every day, but I think it was a ton of laughs while it was hot. Just my two pennies.

Dason

[13COBRA]

Looks like I got rid of Facebook just in time. haha

[J TNT]

Being popular on Facebook is Like Being Popular at The Insane Asylum .............lol ! :witless:

[Hootie]

Not gonna lie. One of the first places I went this morning was to the Gen 3 section to see if anyone dragged it back here. And I rarely go in there.

I think some people are taking this whole thing way too seriously. Myself, I think the last couple of days FB has been an absolute riot. We are lucky to have such a comedic group of entertainers out there, and the memes are some of the best I have EVER seen. Other groups I am part of never never seem to cut loose and get goofy like that, they are always so dry and serious, I might even say boring. Other than only a couple of very obviously questionable comments, it seems like pretty much everyone has jumped in just to have a little fun. Heck, if we can't laugh at ourselves, we shouldn't laugh at anyone.

Even if I had a Gen 3 (I still want a yellow one) I would have been lmao just as hard. We obviously couldn't keep this up every day, but I think it was a ton of laughs while it was hot. Just my two pennies.

Dason

I'm not saying it wasn't funny. I laughed quite a bit. But it's not in line with the goals and policies of the VOA. That's why I'm saying if it's not a VOA associated group then let it be. But if it is, my opinion of funny likely differs from others, and the fact people are getting upset is not what the VOA is about. Poking fun at owners is fine in the many other groups, but I guess I expected the VOA to be classier than this.

[Old School]

Yep, yesterday's Facebook dumpster fire did result in me blocking about a dozen people.

[StrokerAce]

I do not have Facebook but for a laugh how about some screen shots or more detail?

2020 was a strange year and hopefully 2021 can have people back to a level or normalcy while expecting some time for folks to blow off steam and let their hair down a bit.

[Hoonin88]

I've been following along loosely and laughing my ass off every time. One meme started a fire the size of California's wildfires.

[Hootie]

I don't have a screenshot but it started with a girl that just joined taking a dig at Gen 3s, a Gen 3 owner got upset and posted a novel on why Gen 3 is better than everything else. The kindling was laid and rapidly burned, and we ended up here.

Edit: Image removed. No sense letting it spill over to here.

It was a riot, but out of place for the VOA.

[V10Sidepipes]

I see you got a Gen 3. Not a good time to be in the Facebook group right now lol.

I also am not sure if there is a real affiliation but the moderators there seem to be the same VOA people. But it's fallen into a complete sh!t show in the last 48 hours. Kinda embarrassing for the VOA.

That was the reason for my seeking clarification. They claim to be VOA in the group but after the garbage fire (that continues to go on with new posts hourly) and one of the moderators coming out and posting to just let it go and not bother reporting it, that just seems unacceptable. If it was one of the many FB groups that didn’t claim to be VOA it wouldn’t be anything I really cared about here, but as a paying member I think it’s a complete embarrassment. I get it started as a ‘joke’ by someone seeking more attention than they were getting elsewhere apparently, but it has since spiraled down further into all manor of disrespect and unacceptable behavior by grown adults.

With the number of gen3 people posting that they are dropping out, how long till that affects the actual VOA and what everyone here is trying to do? Ever gen has + and - so why do we have to try to go out of our way to divide? I’ve never seen such an elitist attitude on any other group I have been apart of (lambo, Ferrari, Supra, Honda, and many many others over the years).

I don’t take any of the gen3 nonsense personally, as I’m really not concerned with anyone else’s opinion (especially on FB) but I am concerned with how a group I am a (paying) member of is perceived and their standing in the community.

The VOA looks really bad through this lens...

[boraxman]

Some clowns on some of the FB Viper groups for sure...

[Hootie]

The VOA looks really bad through this lens...

100% Agree. Looks like it's now being squashed, but the mods over there really, really dropped the ball on this one. A quick glance at the group's rules tells you it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

But I'll be taking a look through the other, non-VOA groups, for more laughs. In a non-VOA group anything goes in my opinion.

[V10Sidepipes]

100% Agree. Looks like it's now being squashed, but the mods over there really, really dropped the ball on this one. A quick glance at the group's rules tells you it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

But I'll be taking a look through the other, non-VOA groups, for more laughs. In a non-VOA group anything goes in my opinion.

: I had originally said (and at the time) there were no efforts to squash the nonsense, but since then, Maurice (@mauriceV10) has jumped in to try and reign it in (and is even taking flack for it). Thank you for stepping up!

It will be interesting to see how many people chose to not be associated with these types of people moving forward and if any harm has been done to any of the brands involved.

[StrokerAce]

I don't have a screenshot but it started with a girl that just joined taking a dig at Gen 3s, a Gen 3 owner got upset and posted a novel on why Gen 3 is better than everything else. The kindling was laid and rapidly burned, and we ended up here.

Edit: Image removed. No sense letting it spill over to here.

It was a riot, but out of place for the VOA.

Since it's over and done with is the girl hot? Hahah

What is her car?

[ViperSRT]

I see the Facebook page changed the name. No longer associated with VOA? If so will VOA create a new site that is less dramatic?

[bkrone]

It turned into a very disrespectful group that is for sure. What’s ridiculous is my asking about some issues I had in my region were taken has bad for the club but yet people constantly posting and fueling the fire their behavior was acceptable. National needs to oversee the regions more and actually be involved in the regions considering a good chunk of the dues go to the regions. I ultimately decided not to renew this year because of the behavior of the outgoing president from my region and what he and his wife did right before leaving. Thought this was better than the Alley, guess maybe not?

[GreenVenom]

I see the Facebook page changed the name. No longer associated with VOA? If so will VOA create a new site that is less dramatic?

If so it should only be for paid members of the VOA. I think of all the “members” of the FB page in question about 10% were actually VOA members

[braunstein82]

If so it should only be for paid members of the VOA. I think of all the “members” of the FB page in question about 10% were actually VOA members

That would make it harder to get people to join who are not members. For some it takes interacting and hanging out with members a little before they decide to pay and join.

[Rare Snake]

I am completely blown away at how fragile Viper owners are these days.

When I put ACR stripes on my Gen 2 GTS years ago, I got eaten alive. I didn't instantly get offended and demand change. I went out and drove my car, because I loved it.

Sorry, I'm just having one of those days where I think the entire World is going down the toilet. :/

[13COBRA]

Sorry, I'm just having one of those days where I think the entire World is going down the toilet. :/

Wait until the Georgia runoffs are over. :t0135:

[Fatboy 18]

I am completely blown away at how fragile Viper owners are these days.

When I put ACR stripes on my Gen 2 GTS years ago, I got eaten alive. I didn't instantly get offended and demand change. I went out and drove my car, because I loved it.

Sorry, I'm just having one of those days where I think the entire World is going down the toilet. :/

It is :p0273:

[cubeman]

Only took a few years for an owners group to show how over controlling it can be.

[Viperenvy]

From my perspective, a couple of things

1. People have not changed, social media just magnifies who they are - Forums included.
2. 7th grade humor is and was hilarious - I am in 6th grade.
3. There is a time and a place.
4. Awareness of a bigger picture was lost on many.

Many spouses have joined Regional and National pages. Why, because the member may not communicate events and information in a timely manner. Some owners are not on FB because of work requirements or other reasons. Spouses take the place. A spouse can then ensure Vipering is higher on the priority list. Many spouses are as passionate as the member. Question, are most spouse supportive of 7th grade humor that is demeaning to women and others? Is it inclusive to discourage spouses from involvement with 7th grade humor?

Many minors have joined Regional and National pages. Why, because the member wants to expose their kids to the Car Culture passion. A passion that seems less intense today than when many of us grew up. Question, are members and their spouses supportive of exposing their kids to the 7th grade vulgarities of adults? Is it inclusive to have kids removed because women and other groups are denigrated?

Behind the scenes, VOA leadership and membership have worked and continue to work on partnerships to benefit the VOA members and the larger Viper Nation. Several of these companies are well known. Question, because we live in a different society today how quickly can 7th grade humor disparaging women and other groups get back to the CEO's, leaders, owners of our partners? How fast could they terminate the partnership because of the social media megaphones of a few? How would you feel if your work, your personal relationships were at risk?

Behind the scenes, many have been working to heal the Viper Nation division that started 8 years ago causing the Viper Team to pull away. Question, how valuable is their passion, insight, knowledge, and wisdom? Would 7th grade humor disparaging people be appropriate when talking with some of the statesmen of the auto industry, Forefathers of Viper, and Team Viper from the 1970s thru 2017?

When in small groups or 7th grade - 7th grade humor may be tolerated - maybe.

When in mixed company, 7th grade humor is never acceptable, right?

When an organization is public, 7th grade humor cannot be tolerated, right?

When an organization has important partnerships, 7th grade humor can destroy years of work in seconds, right?

Life isn't perfect. Forums and social media are not perfect. I am the worst offender sometimes.

As a group and as individuals, we need to realize a special moment we have. We are owners of dreams. Our dreams and social media impact the future dreams of others. We need to realize that, as a group, partnerships can benefit us individually. If not this partnership, then a partnership to come. Partnerships are based on relationships and reputations. We need to realize that the people who created our vehicles will not be here forever. Time is fleeting. We can either capture the moment with class or lose it forever in 7th grade.

It is not about hurt feelings or sensitivity, its about respect, situational awareness, and class. Many of us just may be better of somewhere else. On size does not fit all.

Everything happens for a reason and everything happens for the best. The VOA, leadership, and membership will be better for this experience.

Feel free to call me 248-705-1245 if you disagree. I am willing to talk.

Respectfully,

Brian

[Mr White]

Not sure the purpose of the facebook group is for anyways, most of the time it is people talking about the value of their car or the new corvette.

[Fatboy 18]

Having just recently joined Facebook, I can say it seems a much faster way of posting pictures without having to pay for a host site like Photobucket of Flickr. Sometimes trying to add a pic to forums here does not work. I think the younger generation have grown up with it. There are a lot of things I don't like about FB and its taken me years to join it.

[ViperSRT]

From my perspective, a couple of things

1. People have not changed, social media just magnifies who they are - Forums included.
2. 7th grade humor is and was hilarious - I am in 6th grade.
3. There is a time and a place.
4. Awareness of a bigger picture was lost on many.

Many spouses have joined Regional and National pages. Why, because the member may not communicate events and information in a timely manner. Some owners are not on FB because of work requirements or other reasons. Spouses take the place. A spouse can then ensure Vipering is higher on the priority list. Many spouses are as passionate as the member. Question, are most spouse supportive of 7th grade humor that is demeaning to women and others? Is it inclusive to discourage spouses from involvement with 7th grade humor?

Many minors have joined Regional and National pages. Why, because the member wants to expose their kids to the Car Culture passion. A passion that seems less intense today than when many of us grew up. Question, are members and their spouses supportive of exposing their kids to the 7th grade vulgarities of adults? Is it inclusive to have kids removed because women and other groups are denigrated?

Behind the scenes, VOA leadership and membership have worked and continue to work on partnerships to benefit the VOA members and the larger Viper Nation. Several of these companies are well known. Question, because we live in a different society today how quickly can 7th grade humor disparaging women and other groups get back to the CEO's, leaders, owners of our partners? How fast could they terminate the partnership because of the social media megaphones of a few? How would you feel if your work, your personal relationships were at risk?

Behind the scenes, many have been working to heal the Viper Nation division that started 8 years ago causing the Viper Team to pull away. Question, how valuable is their passion, insight, knowledge, and wisdom? Would 7th grade humor disparaging people be appropriate when talking with some of the statesmen of the auto industry, Forefathers of Viper, and Team Viper from the 1970s thru 2017?

When in small groups or 7th grade - 7th grade humor may be tolerated - maybe.

When in mixed company, 7th grade humor is never acceptable, right?

When an organization is public, 7th grade humor cannot be tolerated, right?

When an organization has important partnerships, 7th grade humor can destroy years of work in seconds, right?

Life isn't perfect. Forums and social media are not perfect. I am the worst offender sometimes.

As a group and as individuals, we need to realize a special moment we have. We are owners of dreams. Our dreams and social media impact the future dreams of others. We need to realize that, as a group, partnerships can benefit us individually. If not this partnership, then a partnership to come. Partnerships are based on relationships and reputations. We need to realize that the people who created our vehicles will not be here forever. Time is fleeting. We can either capture the moment with class or lose it forever in 7th grade.

It is not about hurt feelings or sensitivity, its about respect, situational awareness, and class. Many of us just may be better of somewhere else. On size does not fit all.

Everything happens for a reason and everything happens for the best. The VOA, leadership, and membership will be better for this experience.

Feel free to call me 248-705-1245 if you disagree. I am willing to talk.

Respectfully,

Brian

Extremely well stated!

[Corse]

I joined the fb group literally yesterday and got a glimpse into it. I guess part of me goes, "ok people are being silly with memes and it's all in good fun" and the other part of me goes, "I can understand people want to have rational discussion here and talk vipers so this isn't really conducive." Social media can tend to bring out the best or worst in people depending on the environment. So I can understand wanting to distance from the fb group to either want to make another one (or not). Whichever way they go.

Either way I've enjoyed the forums so far and have enjoyed talking to other owners on here. It's been nice to find a place with some good knowledgeable threads and feel a sense of comradery instead of elitism among cars.

[Herrsss]

I joined the fb group literally yesterday and got a glimpse into it. I guess part of me goes, "ok people are being silly with memes and it's all in good fun" and the other part of me goes, "I can understand people want to have rational discussion here and talk vipers so this isn't really conducive." Social media can tend to bring out the best or worst in people depending on the environment. So I can understand wanting to distance from the fb group to either want to make another one (or not). Whichever way they go.

Either way I've enjoyed the forums so far and have enjoyed talking to other owners on here. It's been nice to find a place with some good knowledgeable threads and feel a sense of comradery instead of elitism among cars.

I'm happy you are enjoying the forums and our owners. Unfortunately the FB mess was way more than just some goofy memes and "all in good fun" - over the weekend several memes dropped into the gutter big time that I will not describe which is why both Maurice and I popped in to ask folks to take it down a few levels and then the trolls really went to town on us and Alex deleted both of our posts and all comments after that.

That being said we're building a new FB group that will be more welcoming and friendly just like this club is!

[Hootie]

Looking forward to the new group. For a point of reference, I asked a question on both that group and here on the 'old, outdated, useless' forums. Got the correct answer within twenty minutes here, and 90 posts of Gen wars there, no help, and other comments looking for the same info. I'll take quality over quantity every time. I still go to both but my core values and expectations of a club are much better aligned with the VOA. #willrenew

[Brian GTS]

While FB is more convenient for portability and posting pics, I have learned A LOT in these forums over the years and believe forums make it much easier to locate topics that interest you. Everything is organized into categories (Gens). My thumb grows weary using FB after searching and then scrolling thru irrelevant posts.

I'm also a member of the Ford GT forum. Their FB page is not very active, but their forum is still alive an kicking fairly well. A new facebook page for the VOA will we a welcomed addition though. I hope it gains popularity with members and the trolls can tamed with minimal effort.

[Corse]

I'm happy you are enjoying the forums and our owners. Unfortunately the FB mess was way more than just some goofy memes and "all in good fun" - over the weekend several memes dropped into the gutter big time that I will not describe which is why both Maurice and I popped in to ask folks to take it down a few levels and then the trolls really went to town on us and Alex deleted both of our posts and all comments after that.

That being said we're building a new FB page that will be more welcoming and friendly just like this club is!

Totally fair, looking forward to the new page!

[Corse]

While FB is more convenient for portability and posting pics, I have learned A LOT in these forums over the years and believe forums make it much easier to locate topics that interest you. Everything is organized into categories (Gens). My thumb grows weary using FB after searching and then scrolling thru irrelevant posts.

I'm also a member of the Ford GT forum. Their FB page is not very active, but their forum is still alive an kicking fairly well. A new facebook page for the VOA will we a welcomed addition though. I hope it gains popularity with members and the trolls can tamed with minimal effort.

My general experience with FB groups has been they are great for just regular discussion. Forums on the other hand are like opening up an encyclopedia or a handbook that's full of knowledge that's well sorted and easy to find. I find most the time, people on forums are here with a purpose and FB is more casual.

[Steve M]

Forums and social media are two distinctly different animals.

Pretty much all social media sites are heavy on the social and light on the media IMO. And by media, I mean content, or more specifically meaningful content. They are great for posting pics and getting them out to a wide audience in a big hurry, but there's usually little substance behind any of it. They do just what they are designed to do: keep your short attention span for as long as possible, and lots of words just don't do that for most (me included). Anything that is intended to be accessed and used on your smart phone is inherently going to make it difficult to create meaningful content, but that's not what they are trying to do, and I don't think that's ever going to change.

Forums seem to fill the content gap, but are becoming a dying breed. They were all the rage when I was getting into the car scene, but people have been moving away from forums for quite some time now thanks to the juggernauts that are Facebook, Instagram, etc. But forums are worthless without a solid core of contributing members. Anyone that has created content for a forum (like how-to threads) can attest to how long it takes to do it. I feel like the VOA definitely has that solid core, and is the only reason I decided to become a paid member this year. Personally, I wish my entire membership fee could go towards that instead of my local region, but I know I'm in the minority when it comes to thoughts like that.

There is a ton of knowledge that has been archived on forums throughout the years that has greatly benefited me, and that knowledge lives on even after people move on to other platforms and interests. That's the real value of a forum to me, and is what keeps me active here. Facebook just doesn't do that for me, and it never will.

There's definitely a place and a need for both. I'm even okay with a little drama from time to time, but keep that shit on Facebook.

[3SPerkins]

Honestly I’m blown away that people left the Facebook group over that stuff. Every day people post the same dumb shit: what oil do I run, tail light Tuesday, wing Wednesday, ugly silver viper modded to hell...

It was and is finally fun to be a part of that group. I actually want to check Facebook now for something other than marketplace. It’s finally got some life in the group. Get over yourself
If your ego is that fragile you shouldn’t be on the internet

[99RT10]

Honestly I’m blown away that people left the Facebook group over that stuff. Every day people post the same dumb shit: what oil do I run, tail light Tuesday, wing Wednesday, ugly silver viper modded to hell...

It was and is finally fun to be a part of that group. I actually want to check Facebook now for something other than marketplace. It’s finally got some life in the group. Get over yourself
If your ego is that fragile you shouldn’t be on the internet


Well said, you, must be from Florida................................... :D

[sparkrn]

I put a 30 day block on the FB page, hoping it clears up by next month.

[Coloviper]

Beth, I get why the club had to distance from the FB Group. Reality, it was not really a part of the club and with club bylaws, etc. it was really a liability risk in the making. So loophole closed as was done.

Now I will be the first to admit, I was literally sitting in my chair crying with laughter as to what I was reading and seeing over there. Some of the memes and comments were very creative and “Witty”. Applauded! Some were very disrespectful and should have been shutdown by the FB mods but such is Facebook these days. Such are keyboard warriors and social media avatars who may not even be remotely like who they are in real life. I guess I have too much to do in life to get twisted on someone’s comments whom I don’t know. If I felt they were really disrespecting me, I just block em and move on. No drama, no skin off my bottom. The paid for services of the VOA do have a different responsibility as bylaws come into play. It is a business and rules are different from a free form Facebook or other social media site.

My strong suggestion is to learn from this experience. If our traffic on the VOA website forums is way down or just too stale, if people are not renewing then step back and look at what platform is better for our website, forums and connecting owners. Is there something that works better for mobile, picture uploads, alerts or whatever. I have always felt one of the biggest benefits of a paid club is the history, knowledge, especially the how to’s. Let’s be honest our how to section sucks. Want to see a truly beneficial how to’s section, go to Pelican Parts and go to a how to section for say the first Gen Porsche Cayenne. So beneficial with pictures, part numbers, videos and a format for maintenance and troubleshooting on the cars. Even an arm chair mechanic could feel like they could maintain their Viper and that is a key here as even many experienced mechanics don’t know where to start with a Viper. Access to that knowledge is really the only benefit of the VCA that remains. That is worth coming to a club or forum and PAYING for that membership. I think we can do better. This is just one example.

But we need to understand the phenomenon that took place on the Facebook Group. Excitement, initial playful fun, new members. The amount of new people it generated there in a short timeframe had me considering if they were real people at all or if Topher created them to create the whole damn thing. There is a positive part of that energy we absolutely need to create here and a negative part we do not want but can design it out with thought.

I will say, prior to that event, I literally had not been on our website forum for about 6 months. Too busy to log on as I kept my business alive in this challenging year. To busy to come here go through the archaic mobile forum path and check out. Again, let’s take a positive from this all and maybe there are some refresh and different approaches to consider.

Facebook has a place, I don’t think for main platform for paid organizations like VOA but if it is decided to have a Facebook group, then make it an official VOA FB Group that is private where moderators can verify against a VOA membership. If a public group is required and VOA official Facebook group then should design that group as a portal for people to interact and can try before they buy for the VOA. It should drive them to the VOA club not replace the VOA forums.

Somewhere in all that is likely some lessons for us in the VOA. I don’t view this as bad but a wake up call that maybe we have been too complacent.

Finally, I have to ask “what are legions of vipers and why is the first I would hear about it actually in your FB post”? Kind of proves the point that we need to tweak something at the VOA website and forum approach to be more real time and current. People need to be reminded on a greater basis why they see the value to pay.

BTW I renewed and will continue for many years to come even though my growing family has taken almost all free time away. Haven’t been to a Colorado club event in near 2 years and we miss the members there deeply. But such is life for many.

Hope these honest comments are not taken out of context. Just want to see the VOA be everything it can be.

Thanks
Rick

[Rare Snake]

ugly silver viper...

46529

[daveg]

The only reason I never singed up for Facebook is because I am not interested in looking at peoples Brownies.
I prefer Forums for questions and answers and I enjoy trying to help people within it.

[ACRucrazy]

Forums are dead. Facts.
They have their place. Facts.
Forums are dead. Facts.


Glad to see a few people actually understand the whole picture. Dason, Steve, Rick.

[daveg]

The other day I posted something in a Corvette forum and WOW, what an active forum. I understand there are a gazzilion (is that a word) more Corvettes and owners and that's probably why but a forum is only as active as the people that post in it.
Guess I am a bit old school..

[Steve M]

The other day I posted something in a Corvette forum and WOW, what an active forum. I understand there are a gazzilion (is that a word) more Corvettes and owners and that's probably why but a forum is only as active as the people that post in it.
Guess I am a bit old school..

There are definitely some still out there. Corvette forum is a prime example. I peruse one of the Tacoma (my daily driver) forums from time to time, which is also incredibly active. For home/garage related things, the Garage Journal Forum has a lot of traffic with tons of good info on tools and various garage related topics (doors, openers, lighting, flooring, storage, etc.).

I can't tell you how much money that Tacoma forum has saved me over the years. My truck is going on 14 years old, and I've had my fair share of issues over those 14 years. I've been able to tackle some pretty major projects (power steering rack replacement, differential replacement, etc.) because of the write-ups on that site. One literally saved me over $1,000 - the failure I had was traced to a bad solder joint, and Toyota would only replace the entire component rather than try to repair it.

On the other hand, the Garage Journal Forum has probably cost me well over $10k over the years...way too many good ideas on that site if you are into that sorta thing.

[ACRucrazy]

I’m old school too, forums have their place. But in general, they are a needle on the haystack that is social media.
Youtube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter..

Hell FB pretty much killed Craigslist and is taking from eBay and many people can’t or don’t want to understand that.

When I wan’t to dig back in the archives, I look on VCA and VOA forums. That’s where important info should be kept. However forums can’t have thousands of interactions in hours like social media can.

With Facebook I can easily access an infinite amount of pages, groups, classifieds. For free. All with the same login. I can easily share pictures and videos. I can easily buy and sell. It’s all at my fingertips. Did I say it was easy and free?

The THOUSANDS of replies in 1 Facebook group from Saturday to Sunday could not happen on the forums, nor should they. I had a friend screen shot and text me “how does this post get 230 replies on 38 minutes?”

That was post number 2, replying the the first post that had hundreds of replies. Post number 2 went to something like 500 replies before it was deleted. And those are only 2 of dozens of posts.

THAT is what social media is about. Engagement. Good, bad, ugly.. there were THOUSANDS reactions and replies in hours. If the VOA can’t see what that means, I can’t help any further.

The ENGAGEMENT is the story here. If the VOA doesn’t want that, the VOA will continue on life support. You can only dream of 8,000 paying members.

And before anyone says “but it was rude against the Gen 3”, 1 of 2 things:
1: you didn’t see the whole story unfold.
2: you don’t understand how the internet works.

99% of the “Gen 3” bashing was teasing 1 owner who went on a with a novel to why his Gen 3 was superior, Gen V was a failure , they are lemons and he “crushes pussy in the hottest town in the USA” because he was offended by the joke that started it all.

When you push back on the internet you better be willing to take everything you receive. He pushed back, the internet pushed back harder.

Like many people have commented here, I was in tears most of Sunday. It was the most fun I have had on that page in the 7 years I have been a member. Repeatedly people who understood what was happening tried explaining what was going on. That we were not really bashing Gen3 vipers or their owners. It was directed at one guy who was getting what he had coming to him. And when a few people jumped in upset, well.. the internet pushed back.

I have ZERO regrets about this weekend. It was a lot of fun for a lot of people. And the people who got upset, were upset for reasons that were not directed at them or their car, they were misunderstanding what was happening.

BTW, it wasn’t just Gen3s... Gen 1,2,3,4,5 were called out. TA Group cars, GTC ACR cars etc, the whole 25 years of Viper was in the mix. It’s just a few Gen 3 people pushed back.. soooo that’s the result.

[ACRucrazy]

X rated porn that slipped through the Facebook moderation?

I’m sure my idea of X rated porn and yours differ greatly.

[Gen3CoupeTX]

Hey Folks. I'm sure we don't need one more opinion, but here goes >

1. The internet will be what it will be. If you're easily offended, stay away.
2. Some of the FB memes were crazy funny, albeit inappropriate for many.
3. I've owned Gen 3 coupe, Gen 2 GTS, SRT-10 Ram. I can afford any Viper.
4. VOA is a brand IMO, and like all good brands it has an image to protect.
5. Places with cover charges / membership fees are better establishments.

I couldn't care less about anyone else's opinion of my cars. I'll also admit that I'm juvenile enough to laugh at offensive things, and myself for that matter. But ultimately, would I want my family thinking that FB group represented me or the broader Viper community? Hell no! VOA made the right call distancing itself. Salute, Mike M

[Mr White]

Nothing of value is communicated on the facebook group(s), at best it is just banter

The only real problem is the people who don't understand the difference between a playful ribbing and bludgeoning someone to death. Sadly, the people who tend to become moderators of anything tend to not know the difference either.

[Mr White]

I’m sure my idea of X rated porn and yours differ greatly.

I have some links, we should compare notes

[ACRucrazy]

Sent you a pm to ask how you would define a certain gif posted over the weekend that I won’t describe in public

Are you talking about the stick figure meme? Not gif?

[MoparBoyy]

The VOA will not tolerate that sort of garbage and when I chatted with Alex about mods he promptly removed the 3 VOA individuals that were mods to where he and his buddy Lyndon were the only mods which means the VOA had zero control over content.

are you serious? you said you wanted the entire facebook group deleted. I removed all traces of VOA from the group PER YOUR REQUEST. So yes I 100% removed the 3 other VOA members who were admins that never did a single thing. My 'Buddy' is a social media expert and has done more for the VOA social media wise then anyone who has held VOA office including myself. Throwing out the baby with the bath water because some people got offended would be silly, so again.. per your request. The VOA was removed from the group.

[ACRucrazy]

Why are Beths posts now deleted?

[Fatboy 18]

I didn't get all the American Humor, but a lot of it was funny. :D As I said earlier, Chimps Tea party, and they are funny to watch :D It's dragging on a bit though.

[Viperenvy]

A little history and perspective as I have learned it.

When the VOA was formed, there were many things to be handled at once. The priorities were long.

Alex, heading up the Central North Florida region, offered to modify his FB group for the VOA. Several moderators from the VOA were added.

Things went smoothly for 6 plus years. So smooth, to Alex's point, the VOA moderators did little to nothing in comparison to Alex and Lyndon.

With the ease of operation, rules were not discussed, moderators did not meet as group, and Alex & Lyndon moderated the group.

When comments got out of hand, the VOA did not have the appropriate standards in place.

As a result, things got a "little" heated behind the scenes. I appreciate Alex and Lyndon's quick action when the VOA requested its removal from the group.

I know from personal experience when things have gone wrong in my life, it is much easier to look at the present to find fault. As I have tried to learn from my mistakes, I often find issues started in the past. They started small and were not noticeable - until they weren't.

So we ended up in a situation that was funny to some and not others. That includes VOA members.

Yes the internet is the wild wild west. FB and Forums can be. In some or most circumstances this is acceptable to those that join groups. For the VOA and other organizations that have paid membership, sponsors, partners, and advertisers, different standards apply. We are an organization that wants to be inclusive of Viper owners and those passionate about Vipers. As I stated in a previous post, 7th grade humor is hilarious to this 6th grade mentality post author. However, I want my spouse, my kids, and those of the region I belong to understand my passion and the passion of others who own Vipers. There is a time and a place. A FB group connected to the VOA was not the place. Just like if my buddies are over to my house, it wouldn't be the place for the same humor in front of my wife and kids unless we were in the garage and not in ear shot.

So going forward, let's not point the finger. None of us are perfect. We can be better going forward with better planning, better organization, and better execution. I screw up once an hour and, right now, I am 8-9 hours behind.

Thank you once again to Alex & Lyndon for their dedication to the Viper Nation. I am sorry we put you in a difficult situation - it wasn't fair to either you.

If anyone would like to discuss this with me personally which is always the best, please call me on 248-705-1245.

Thank you to Alex and Beth for reviewing this with me.

Respectfully,

Brian

[Herrsss]

Why are Beths posts now deleted?

I deleted them myself because they became counterproductive.

[Coloviper]

Can I ask again, what is Legends of Viper? Thought I was pretty nice asking the first time.

[ViperSRT]

Can I ask again, what is Legends of Viper? Thought I was pretty nice asking the first time.

Generally speaking that is the people who were influential in getting the Viper designed, built and to market. For example Roy Sjoberg or Father Viper as he is known in the community.

They are also the very same people that when mentioned on the FB page are ridiculed as being "so what." Probably by those who no nothing about Viper and are only there to create chaos.

[Coloviper]

Thank you! I saw Beth mentioning something about Legends of Viper, the Club and that seemed to be moving forward to something but was not explained what. I know I don’t stand with any people degrading anyone with Team Viper. Only person I had taken issue with is Tim who took over from Ralph (I have my personal reasons for that) but everyone else deserves to be honored.

I have been fortunate to have met most of them over the years except Carroll Shelby and Bob Lutz.

Do we have a list somewhere with the names and what they contributed to the car? Would be nice to know who all have been considered in that group.

Thank you
Rick

[ViperSRT]

Given the recent happenings and Facebooks decision to prevent the President of the United States from using the platform indefinitely, I am wondering what platform VOA will use. I will be soon leaving Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (already cancelled that one). Direct communication via the website may be the only thing left!

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Thank you! Do we have a list somewhere with the names and what they contributed to the car? Would be nice to know who all have been considered in that group.

Thank you Rick


Rick: Search "New Viper Book" for a really good overview of "the Players" in the Viper saga.

35% off discount just in time for holidays = $29 delivered. Whoever is asking what you want for Christmas, add this to your list:

https://www.veloce.co.uk/store/Dodge...car-p145352684 (https://www.veloce.co.uk/store/Dodge-Viper-The-full-story-of-the-worlds-first-V10-sports-car-p145352684)


Use Coupon Code: STAY-INDOORS-AND-READ to get this inaugural price. Dont wait, ships postal from UK.... Credit Cards or PayPal accepted.

[John N]

Given the recent happenings and Facebooks decision to prevent the President of the United States from using the platform indefinitely, I am wondering what platform VOA will use. I will be soon leaving Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (already cancelled that one). Direct communication via the website may be the only thing left!

Getting the hell off of Facebook makes perfect sense to me. Why should VOA be somewhere dedicated to censoring conservatives?

[Coloviper]

Rick: Search "New Viper Book" for a really good overview of "the Players" in the Viper saga.

35% off discount just in time for holidays = $29 delivered. Whoever is asking what you want for Christmas, add this to your list:

https://www.veloce.co.uk/store/Dodge...car-p145352684 (https://www.veloce.co.uk/store/Dodge-Viper-The-full-story-of-the-worlds-first-V10-sports-car-p145352684)


Use Coupon Code: STAY-INDOORS-AND-READ to get this inaugural price. Dont wait, ships postal from UK.... Credit Cards or PayPal accepted.

Thanks Jon! I have not seen that book. I do like the Roy video I picked up from you years back. Just bought the book from across the pond so look forward to getting it. Thank you!

Hope you are doing well these days? So ready to be done with the restrictions, masks, etc.

Thanks
Rick

[TheMadMachinist]

46615

[StrokerAce]

46615

Ha! Sorry, that's funny.