Window Regulator or Cracked Tube Issue on Gen V

[Scott_in_fl]

Gentlemen (and ladies), does anyone with a trained/experienced ear know what this is?

https://youtu.be/ZICwc3Z_LCs

Clearly, these window issues are genuinely common. Not a big deal I'm sure, but certainly annoying. Car only has about 2,600 mi. and this sound just started this weekend. Window is still firmly in place, so not thinking its the bosses (although I'll be replacing those with the DSE pieces while I'm in there). Just wondering if JonB's window regulator fix kit is what I need or whether I need something else.

[Steve M]

Wow...that sounds bad. Not exactly sure what happened, but looks like you'll need to take the door panel apart to see what's going on.

Question: how do you use your windows? Always up? Always down? What position are they in when you typically open/close the doors?

Someone in another thread suggested that regulator damage is more likely to happen if you open/close the doors with the windows partially opened (i.e. not fully up or fully down). It'd be nice to have some data to see if that might be the cause of some of these issues (not saying that it is here). I only ask because I have yet to have any issues with the regulators on my Gen 4, but I'm not sure why that is given the number of failures that happen with them. I use the windows every single time I drive the car...they come down and stay all the way down as soon as I start the car, and stay that way until I'm done driving it at which point they go all the way back up.

[sadil]

Leave the window up and don’t touch it until you take the door panel apart to inspect. They have a tendency to fall right into the door slot and you will be left with an open window. The grinding sounds like the regulator is slipping. You have operation so everything is still seated but about to slip. I would take to dealer or remove yourself. My glass panel fell right off into the slot on day 2 of ownership. I removed the panel and took the glass completely out. Repaired it and put it back in, no issues since then. The regulator is probably fine, but how it is mounted to the glass seems to be the weak link. If you want to know more, let me know.

[Scott_in_fl]

Because I am aware of the window problems, I always run the windows either full up or full down. In SoFla, the windows are mainly up. So, on the whole, I would say that my windows get far less use (i.e. movement up or down) than the average. I am extremely anal about how I keep cars and all other toys. You'll see the protective plastic is still on the sills from delivery. I don't turn on the rear defroster, I only hand wash myself with the best towels and chemicals, I back into all spaces, check the oil before every drive, etc., etc.

[99RT10]

Isn't there a new designed window regulator? If it is not under warranty, you can gets yours rebuilt for about $200-$250, lifetime warranty.

[chris_lee]

Mine sounded bad but not this bad when the window boss finally “popped” and cracked in half. I think this allowed the window to be slightly out of position and caused the regulator to sound like that. However, I did notice after the pop my window was loose but the sound was nearly the same. Now I get a very slight sound sometimes but everything works normally after the boss kit install.

[swexlin]

I never use the auto-up/down function. I nudge them a little at a time with the switch, hopefully prolongs life. Probably just jinxed myself.

[One Viper Bite]

My 2017 started doing the exact same thing on the passenger side about 3 weeks ago. Was going to take it in for warranty on my next oil change.

[BSLSK]

I got my window regulator reinforcement kit from Viper Store. I didn't know Jon B offered a reinforcement kit. 99% sure your issue is window regulator. The issue stems from closing the door with the windows partially down (what I've heard). Good idea to change out the bosses while you're in there. It'd be great if you could do a video when you install the reinforcement kit.

[Scott_in_fl]

Yes, I will be sure to do a video once I receive the DSE bosses and take the door apart (ordered them yesterday).

My understanding from doing a bit of hunting around parts diagrams is that there is a flexible ribbed rod that runs inside of the pvc tubes that the window motor pushes back and forth. The ribbing may be a screw pattern such that a gear on the motor drives the rod as it spins in one direction, or reverses in the other. When the pvc tubes crack (as apparently they often do), the two pieces on both sides of crack become misaligned and the ribs of the rod make a popping sound as they push or pull at the area of the crack. This would explain why it is noisy during the first half of the travel because the orientation of the flexible rod/tube changes as the window moves up or down. It would also explain why the noise is only on the down stroke (it may naturally align with the other side of the crack a bit better).

So, anyway, that's my logical diagnosis without actually going in yet. My plan is to repair and reinforce the area of the crack with something that maintains flexibility (it apparently needs to be somewhat flexible). I'm thinking about a shrink wrap sleeve -- one of the stronger ones that has a heat activated adhesive inside of it. I use them to tidy up bicycle cables all them time. If it looks like it needs a "backbone" to better hold its shape, then I may grab the regulator repair kit from Viper Store.

[BSLSK]

Scott, you are spot on with your diagnosis. Although if I were you, I would get the repair kit now and knock both out at the same time. I certainly wish I did.

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ Good idea. I'll order it up tomorrow morning.

[inquirer86]

Please make a video, I would love to see it

[Hootie]

I have the DSE bosses but haven't installed yet because I think I'm too stupid to figure it out haha.
Can someone tell me if I'm supposed to leave the window switch connected to move the window to access the bosses? I pulled the door panel off completely but as there's no controls connected anymore, and I see no way to turn the motor by hand, I'm unable to position the window to access anything. The manual instructions also advise to disconnect the battery, which also goes against the idea of leaving the switch connected.

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ Pull the switch housing from the door panel (usually held on with clips) and then re-connect switch without the door panel so that you can operate the window.

[Hootie]

Great thanks. I figured something had to remain connected but the way I interpreted the directions it seemed like there was a way to move the window without using the motor.

[Hootie]

Well I can't seem to get the window switch out of the door. There's a screw under some insulation in the inside of the door panel that I removed but I tried prying it out and made no progress. I stopped before I break anything. I moved forward with the door panel tucked to the side and the switch connected. Works at least.
Got the boss that's easier to reach installed, then went to do the rear one and that's where it all fell apart lol. I took the screw out from the front boss again to get some play to slide the rear boss in and then it happened.
I dropped the stainless insert from the DSE boss into the door, and can't for the life of me find it. Keep in mind I dropped the first one a few times but it was always easy to find laying in the button if the door. Had cameras looking around, removed some wiring clips to reach better, no luck. I shook the door and hard it move but it just have taken into something because it no longer makes noise shaking the door. It's been an hour and I'm walking away before I get overly frustrated. I swear I've felt every inch of the inside and no luck. GRRRRRR.
Interested to see how your installs go. Directions say to not tighten the boss to where the threaded aluminum protrudes past the stainless insert, but mine is poking through without it even being hand right. I don't see any reason why it can't stick out a bit though.

[Hootie]

Pulled the door speaker and found it. No clue how it fell down from the boss area and ended up all the way in the front by the speaker.
I also was looking at pictures of a new window switch. Looks to me there's two horizontal attachment points in addition to the screw under the insulation. I'm guessing you have to seperate the door panel to remove it. I'll stick with leaving the panel propped up to keep the switch plugged in.
This is quickly becoming a 12 beer job haha.

[chris_lee]

Yea when I did mine I left the door panel attached and it made the entire process beyond awkward. I could not get the door release cable to release from the panel and could tell I was about to break something expensive. So like you said, 12 beer job.


Pulled the door speaker and found it. No clue how it fell down from the boss area and ended up all the way in the front by the speaker.
I also was looking at pictures of a new window switch. Looks to me there's two horizontal attachment points in addition to the screw under the insulation. I'm guessing you have to seperate the door panel to remove it. I'll stick with leaving the panel propped up to keep the switch plugged in.
This is quickly becoming a 12 beer job haha.

[Hootie]

I managed to get that cable off by grabbing it with pliers. The plastic base of the door release took some courage, but it does just pry out. It's easier to pry the base of first, then unhook the T hook by rotating it 90 degrees to get it out of the slot. At least once I'm done with this door, the other side should be easy. Until I drop something in the door again, yell some profanities, and just forever leave the window down.

[Scott_in_fl]

Looks like a couple of aligning pins and then two mounting tabs at the front and rear of the switch that are likely where you'll find that it is screwed to the door panel. Typically a switch like this is just snapped into place. But this looks to be screwed to something else.

44970
44971

[Hootie]

Yes I agree. But those mounting tabs on front and rear are not accessible with the door panel off. 'If' there are screws in there, it looks like we would need to take the panel apart further to get to them.
My lovely, money 'maybe' well spent manual literally says to remove the switch to 1) Remove fasteners. 2) Remove switch. No pictures, no number of fasteners. Really helpful

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ ha, hilarious. Yes, most manuals leave you a bit wanting. Always best to feel around, tug, pull gently to see where attachment points are, and then sneak in some good lighting/mirrors to get a better look. Door compartments are tough because of the tight packaging, delicate fasteners, and unusual engineering of how all of the small pieces clip into one another.

[Hootie]

Ugh the rest of my long post was cut off. Here's the gist of what I wrote that never made it up.
Finished the driver's door. Easiest way for me was to lower window to where you can easily access the two bosses via the holes. Remove forward screw and boss, install the DSE boss without thread locker for now. Put screw back in halfway. Remove rear boss screw. Lower window until only about 3" is above the door. Remove rear boss. Remove forward screw. Grab the window and tilt it forward. Slide the rear boss half with the stainless piece into the now visible hole in glass. Use you hand to tilt window back into position to capture the boss half. Thread on rest of boss. Put it all back loose. Remove the boss half with gasket one at a time and apply thread locker. I tightened bosses by hand as tight as I could. Will remove screw again tomorrow after thread locker had set to adjust window.
Wonder why DSE used RH thread for bosses as they want to unthread when you put the screw in. OEM is LH thread which I think works better.
You will almost certainly drop the boss half with the stainless piece multiple times. It will hit the curved portion of rear door and slide forward. I took the speaker out which helped multiple times getting the pieces. Literally dropped a piece over 50 times before I landed on the plan above. Good luck!

[swexlin]

Ugh the rest of my long post was cut off. Here's the gist of what I wrote that never made it up.
Finished the driver's door. Easiest way for me was to lower window to where you can easily access the two bosses via the holes. Remove forward screw and boss, install the DSE boss without thread locker for now. Put screw back in halfway. Remove rear boss screw. Lower window until only about 3" is above the door. Remove rear boss. Remove forward screw. Grab the window and tilt it forward. Slide the rear boss half with the stainless piece into the now visible hole in glass. Use you hand to tilt window back into position to capture the boss half. Thread on rest of boss. Put it all back loose. Remove the boss half with gasket one at a time and apply thread locker. I tightened bosses by hand as tight as I could. Will remove screw again tomorrow after thread locker had set to adjust window.
Wonder why DSE used RH thread for bosses as they want to unthread when you put the screw in. OEM is LH thread which I think works better.
You will almost certainly drop the boss half with the stainless piece multiple times. It will hit the curved portion of rear door and slide forward. I took the speaker out which helped multiple times getting the pieces. Literally dropped a piece over 50 times before I landed on the plan above. Good luck!

Glad you got through. When mine need doing, I'll come over to your place for help! I'll buy the pizza and beer!

[Hootie]

I'm willing to help anyone I can. Offer always on the table.
A quick test of closing the door looks like the glass is too high now (it was already tilted when I started, hence the whole messing with the window). The up stop shown in manual and DSE instructions looks to be just a zinc plate that doesn't do anything? I can loosen the nut and it slides up and down but no matter what position is in seems to make no difference.
Anyone know how that piece works? Hoping somebody will tackle this job soon and be able to shed light on that. It sounds like it's supposed to be a hard stop for the window travel, but unless mine is installed wrong it makes no difference. I know someone was in the door before me because the vapor shield wasn't secured well and the date on the regulator is newer than the car, so must have been replaced by previous owner.

[BSLSK]

You must have installed the bosses at a slightly lower position than the factory ones causing your window to sit higher. Double check to make sure that's not the case. If you removed both bosses at the same time without another one holding it in place, then it's very likely you did.

[darbgnik]

I'm willing to help anyone I can. Offer always on the table.
A quick test of closing the door looks like the glass is too high now (it was already tilted when I started, hence the whole messing with the window). The up stop shown in manual and DSE instructions looks to be just a zinc plate that doesn't do anything? I can loosen the nut and it slides up and down but no matter what position is in seems to make no difference.
Anyone know how that piece works? Hoping somebody will tackle this job soon and be able to shed light on that. It sounds like it's supposed to be a hard stop for the window travel, but unless mine is installed wrong it makes no difference. I know someone was in the door before me because the vapor shield wasn't secured well and the date on the regulator is newer than the car, so must have been replaced by previous owner.

Just spit balling, but can't you just do the window position auto learn so it will sit at the correct height?

You know, open window and keep holding down for like 20 seconds, then close it and hold button for the same amount of time, or something like that......

[Hootie]

BSLSK,
I know I moved the windows on the bosses. That was intentional as my window sits crooked and this was an attempt to align it better. I'm hoping since I can fix the rotation with the bosses, that once I get the up stop figured out I can direct the height and it will all line up correctly.
Darbgnik, I let the thread lock cure overnight. I'll try the relearn today and see where that gets me. I'm still thinking I'll need to figure out the up stop nut. I thought the relearn with holding the switch down was more to reset a had effect sensor or similar to get the auto up/down calibrated, not adjust the overall travel, but I could be wrong. Will report what happens later today once I get the kids to camp and can mess with it more.

[cubeman]

There seems to be 3 failures on the windows

1) This noise in video, regulator replacement

2) Boss failure, get DSE Kit or dealer will just replace entire regulator

3) Window vibrations, stock bosses are failing get DSE Kit or dealer replaces regulator


Regulators can be back ordered, I know got lucky replacing both of mine on my original viper.

[Hootie]

https://i.ibb.co/42kztR2/20200826-131915.jpg
Is that separation a bad regulator? It looks like a clean seam, but photos of a new regulator look like the white tube has no gap where it connects. I'm thinking it's done for, and any more messing with bosses and adjustments isn't going to get squat accomplished.

[BSLSK]

https://i.ibb.co/42kztR2/20200826-131915.jpg
Is that separation a bad regulator? It looks like a clean seam, but photos of a new regulator look like the white tube has no gap where it connects. I'm thinking it's done for, and any more messing with bosses and adjustments isn't going to get squat accomplished.

Yes your window regulator needs to be replaced or you must install the reinforcement kit or both. Your windows may still work now but it is just a matter of time. Also, if your window is still crooked then you must adjust the window bosses. Good luck!

[ViperGeorge]

Actually I think if the plastic bosses fail the dealer replaces the window glass not the regulator.

[Hootie]

I believe that is correct. It doesn't show the bosses in the parts catalog that I could find, but I do recall reading they are considered part of the glass. Either way I tried to go to the dealer in NJ that was recommended to me to get this fixed (The Jeep Store, Ocean, NJ) only to call and find out their Viper Tech put in his two weeks notice. So I will wait until he's set up at his new spot (Freehold, NJ) and try to get it resolved there, or make the drive into PA to another tech that way.

[Hootie]

Just to bump this up, I have both driver and passenger regulators on the way with the reinforcement kit for both. Going to replace both sides with new (regulator part number ending in 'I') and reinforce during install. Hopefully this will get it all fixed and it'll stay good. New regulators, reinforcement kit and DSE bosses. If that still fails then I give up. Will do it over the winter but I'll try to take pics and make a guide in the process. Hopefully once I get this done I'll have a nice write up that someone else may find useful.

[SRT BILL]

Just to bump this up, I have both driver and passenger regulators on the way with the reinforcement kit for both. Going to replace both sides with new (regulator part number ending in 'I') and reinforce during install. Hopefully this will get it all fixed and it'll stay good. New regulators, reinforcement kit and DSE bosses. If that still fails then I give up. Will do it over the winter but I'll try to take pics and make a guide in the process. Hopefully once I get this done I'll have a nice write up that someone else may find useful.

Hootie, Pictures along with some words of guidence is always helpful. Thanks.