Viper Sales Crator, Production Haulted

[VRYALT3R3D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onN-9Z9hsUI

[KRATEDISEASE]

More good news !! YIKES.

[ViperSmith]

:-\

I am unsure of the Corvette comparison though. Sales are up 130% from last year - well I'd hope so considering it was a 10 year old design and everyone knew the C7 was coming.

They were planning to shut down for 8 weeks, but now longer - not good. I guess better to work to move inventory than pile more on top. Hope it isn't the end of the line already.

I'd guess they are going to halt then roll out the '15s?

[ViperSmith]

Then again, not really shocking that sales are down considering this has been a terrible winter.

[Lawrenzo]

Chevy will probably sell 25k+ Corvettes this year. While the Viper remains exclusive and elusive at around 500.

[VENOM V]

Looking at the facts here, shutdown was increased from the original plan of eight weeks to eleven weeks. I didn't know that a shutdown was planned at all, had anyone heard of this?

Supplier says fifteen weeks but Chrysler says eleven, I'll go with Chrysler for now. I design products similar in complexity to a car, and when we reduce production, our suppliers typically reduce their production more than we do, because they usually carry extra inventory.

I'd like to see an increase in production rather than a decrease so this isn't great news, but perhaps not a huge deal.

[ViperSmith]

i wonder if some incentives will roll out to clear out inventory

[Brian GTS]

More drama. Don't get me wrong, I have A LOT of respect for Corvettes. I even owned a C6 at one time.

The Corvette cannot be compared to the Viper as the Gen V Viper is in a different league! The Corvette is designed to be MASS produced while the Viper is not. Just look at the Gen V Viper next to a C7 Vette and you will quickly see the differences in design / quality. Therefore, I really don't feel the success of the Corvette is the main reason Viper sales are down.

So why are sales down? IMO, marketing mistakes, nasty reviews of prototypes, and the price is a little North of what it should be.....particularly for the GTS. To command the price for a GTS to new buyers (non Viper enthusiasts), they are going to have to build reputation first.....much like Porsche has. Porsche can up charge THOUSANDS for options because they have their reputation already established.

[Nine Ball]

Crator? Haulted?

Spelling?

[RedTanRT/10]

I read yesterday's Automotive News and saw on the ground US inventory was 800 units at the end of February and 400 plus days supply as the above article mentions.

In reality, not a whole lot has changed in the past 6 months and I kept thinking they need to pull back production again.

During the past 12 months, US monthly retail viper sales are running low 40's to I think a high of 62 around August.

When they cut production back to 30 a week in the fall they were still selling in the low 40's to the low 50's so inventory kept building.

Yeah, they can say the car is not selling, but the real issue is that dealers are buying/ordering.

Outside of Woodhouse/Tomball and a few others, the part time viper dealers are getting crushed financially on the Gen 5's. Look at Dave Smith, largest volume Chrysler products dealer in the US, he's trying to sell fresh off the truck T/A's at invoice.

[cashcorn]

Well I'm in D1 Status. Ordered 02/04/14. I hope I get lucky!

[46hemi]

Yeah not good. Wish I had some extra cash to help the cause. Its a beautiful car, and not a bad value but I can also understand its limited appeal.

[Snakebit]

Viper_Builder said in another thread that the plant will be closed during the Homecoming in July. Maybe together with a planned summer shutdown/model year changeover, it truly will amount to 15 weeks?

[Newport Viper]

They just need more time to get the Vert ready!!

[VENOM V]

This article says plant will be down for 10 weeks, and sounds like it's more directly quoting SRT...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140318/AUTO0101/303180086/Chrysler-temporarily-shutter-Detroit-plant-makes-Vipers

[Coloviper]

Newport;

You buggar, beat me to it. An hour ago, it would have been my idea. Ha! Ha!

Anyway an increase in shutdown period, can you say RETOOLING! I fully expect a Viper Convertible to be rushed to get out there in the market yet this year to help with sales and demand. This would appear the most opportune time to do that as Viper will once again take the convertible HP crown. Corvette does not put the Z06 or ZR1 in a convertible. The situation makes it unique for Viper and Viper marketing. And now Homecoming taking place while the plant is down. They have known we are coming for quite some time, even though the official date was not put in stone. Can't have a homecoming without a something special and unique. What better audience of potential purchasers would they have than owners while there.

I am with Newport, it is the SRT RT/10 Viper a comin'! Now Randall, Homecoming details so I can book everything!!!!

[Torquemonster06]

Wow....Just wow.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Crator? Haulted?

Spelling?

he was having a mini stroke on account of the news......slurred spelling

[cashcorn]

Looks like my order will be completed.. I just received this e-mail from Missy @ SRT.

My information is that the orders that are in currently will be completed.
Sincerely,
Missy
SRT Customer assistance Team
855-778-8326
EXT: 4720387
http://drivesrt.com/

[KRATEDISEASE]

My opinion, this shut down is a good thing.

The gen5 Viper is just too common. Dime a dozen. They need to reduce production.

Every where I go i see a new Gen5 Viper.

They are all over the place, especially parked inside SRT/Dodge dealerships.

Way too common.

Need to reduce production to save the brand ASAP !!

[Mamba52]

3881Because of this. 600 WRHP and get to keep my 04 SRT.

[Newport Viper]

Newport;

You buggar, beat me to it. An hour ago, it would have been my idea. Ha! Ha!

It is your idea! I was being sarcastic. LOL. They would be crazy to release a Vert. Who the heck would buy it? You would lose your butt and both arms.

They need to clear out Coupe inventory. Keep racing the car on TV. Push back the Vert to 2016MY. Bring out a 800HP ACR in 2017.

Call me crazy but I'm not taking a $15-$30k first year hit on a Vert.

This will all clear up with time.... hopefully...

[Granger73]

They've done a piss poor job of defining there target customer. A very poor job. The sales numbers are embarrassing. They don't have a competent dealer network; it's just not there. There is a 289 day supply currently, and at projected production rates it could climb significantly. Not a good scenario.

[slitherv10]

24K production in the Corvette compared to the Viper??...First off the comparison is ridiculous. Comparing a 450HP car worth 70K with a car with 200HP more and almost twice the cost for that matter, does not make sense. It's like comparing the Corvette to the Nissan 370Z with 300HP and worth 50K. Of course the sales numbers are different.
If you want to make a fair comparison in sales, see what the ZO6 and ZR1 sales numbers are. Will they sell 500+ units? Then were talking apples to apples.

By the way, I heard from a Chevy dealer here that they were contemplating a ZR1 for late 2015 with 690HP. GTR is bringing out the Nismo edition with 600 HP as well with 0-60 in 2.7 and quarter mile times of 10.8. Those are estimated times but I would hate to think they could be better when it gets tested.

[Viper vince]

I think this the the beginning of the end. It is plain and simple numbers . If they brought out a convertible or an ACR the small dealers would get stuck with the old inventory. How many do they have to sell to get their return on investment? It needs more horsepower! I do not see that happening either.

[Snakebit]

I think you are right. There is nothing good about this news.

[99RT10]

I would say if anybody is on the fence about buying a Viper, any Viper, better get it now. I wish I could get a hundred of them. Future is in ????????????

[Policy Limits]

Maybe if the snake bows out values will rise like when it was announced that Ford GT production ceased. Look at the bright side!

[commandomatt]

Maybe its not so much comparing the Viper to the Vette but rather the fact there are X amount of buyers in this market looking for an American built, high performance car.

Quite possible that many of those contemplating a Viper went in the direction of a Vette instead. Remember that every one is not as passionate about the Viper as the members of this forum. Many buyers are just looking for a performance car and there is no question that the Vette is a good value. Not saying its even close to everything a Viper is but for a lot less money you can get into a car that will make your heart race.

I would agree with some of the posts that have been made...both the positive and negative ones. The bottom line has to be, if the dealers are not selling enough cars to stay level with production then something has to change. Increase sales by incentives or special promotions, or lower production so the market doesn't get completely flooded.

Interesting that many of the new Gen V buyers were talking about the 2010's not being appealing enough and therefore got stuck unsold on dealer lots for a long time. Maybe the Gen V's will end up unsold as well. I hope not as I am looking forward to what may be ahead (ACR's) and unless cars start selling I don't think there will be a whole lot of investing in new product.

[Policy Limits]

Mag rags and poor launch / marketing are variables. But viper owners themselves played a role. A year ago posts on line from viper guys about the V were so critical that it bordered on malicious. Hope those folks are happy.

[Late Apex]

i wonder if some incentives will roll out to clear out inventory Oh yes and some good deals to be made too in the near future.

[Newport Viper]

Media smells blood...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/03/18/viper-production-halted-chrysler/6573671/


https://news.google.com/news?ncl=dOIhvuj3n-Z2TyMrQFdxOeWn-GIMM&q=Viper+production+demands&lr=English&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0P0oU4b7Jsi0qAHxqIHwCg&ved=0CCsQqgIwAA

[KRATEDISEASE]

They would be flying off the shelves if it had 700 hp.

There would be a line out the door if it had a dual clutch auto or even a traditional auto

There would be bidding wars and possibly riots at the SRT dealers if Romney won the election.

[Schen]

For the record, the next gen Z06 has a removable roof...for a supposed 'race car' for the street.

But anyway.

It's hard to grit our teeth and keep out mouths shut on the matter. It's a shame and it's a shame for the employees at CAAP. I've spent the last hour or so reading the comments from people. It sorta goes like this...

Price
Price
Price
Vette's cheaper
I could get...
Price
Price
Should have a V8
Dealership
Dealership
I could get...
Dealership
Dealership
Price
Vette's Cheaper
Price

That's pretty much how it goes outside of Viper related forums. Very few comments were made about a roadster/convertible, some where about it still being a 'Dodge', and some comments were just so out of line they had nothing to do with the car. It's a topic we could discuss all day and I'm sure many things have been said that have been discussed to death before.

I think the biggest problem today is we've become so dependent on instant gratification we have to have it NOW. People want to order their cars NOW, people want to buy their cars NOW, people want to drive their cars NOW. We are so caught up on getting things done, nobody except for the very few of us, are willing to relax for a moment and take the time to appreciate and enjoy things. People use to push themselves and their cars to the limit. Now the cars are doing all the work.

History repeats itself, so when your 20XX LS-whatever only make the same amount of horsepower as the current gen Scion FR-S I don't want to hear it.

--RS

[KRATEDISEASE]

I think the biggest problem today is we've become so dependent on instant gratification we have to have it NOW. People want to order their cars NOW, people want to buy their cars NOW, people want to drive their cars NOW. We are so caught up on getting things done, nobody except for the very few of us, are willing to relax for a moment and take the time to appreciate and enjoy

--RS

"Take the time " ? Huh ? Who has time ? Possibly you have figured out a way to live forever.

I surely know my "time" is limited.

[Policy Limits]

Price point was tough. GTS price puts you in Porsche & Maserati territory; that's saying alot. Dealership experience is big. Not only for sales but for service too. It's ironic how GM ignition failures that kill brakes steering airbags and people result in more sales and they have a CEO that is out of the lime light; while SRT has had minimal deaths and the most passionate CEO in the industry yet poor sales. The worst thing that can happen to any product or service is a supply without a demand.

[V10LEE]

I think this the the beginning of the end. It is plain and simple numbers . If they brought out a convertible or an ACR the small dealers would get stuck with the old inventory. How many do they have to sell to get their return on investment? It needs more horsepower! I do not see that happening either.

Yes with this news. I don't think they will build an ACR..

[slitherv10]

[QUOTE=Policy Limits;39714]Mag rags and poor launch / marketing are variables. But viper owners themselves played a role. A year ago posts on line from viper guys about the V were so critical that it bordered on malicious. Hope those folks are happy.[/QU

Ironic was it not?

[Thawk97]

Viper_Builder said in another thread that the plant will be closed during the Homecoming in July. Maybe together with a planned summer shutdown/model year changeover, it truly will amount to 15 weeks?

Oh man, that really stinks. That was one of the things I was really looking forward to - seeing the line with cars on it.

[VENMPWR]

I bet if they priced them to sell and not to get MAX profit they wouldn't be in the position. I'm guessing the Gen5 will be done and over within 2 years.

But the plant looks nice!!

Also, Prefix is going to be in a world of hurt too. But they have great paint booths!!

[KRATEDISEASE]

[QUOTE=Policy Limits;39714]Mag rags and poor launch / marketing are variables. But viper owners themselves played a role. A year ago posts on line from viper guys about the V were so critical that it bordered on malicious. Hope those folks are happy.[/QU

Ironic was it not?

they sky is not falling !! The earth is opening up and all the gen5 vipers are falling in the black hole........ Like the Corvette museum.

[ViperSmith]

I bet if they priced them to sell and not to get MAX profit they wouldn't be in the position. I'm guessing the Gen5 will be done and over within 2 years.

But the plant looks nice!!

Also, Prefix is going to be in a world of hurt too. But they have great paint booths!!
Yeah plenty have cheered this the entire time. I guess there will be plenty happy people that the Viper could be dead, again.

Shame. Oh well

[daytonprowler]

Chrysler's official response

The SRT Viper is a hand-crafted American exotic car that is designed for a
specific consumer that values performance, style and exclusivity. It has
never been intended to be a mass-production vehicle as less than 29,000
vehicles have been produced in the past 20 years. The ability to increase and
decrease production at the Conner Avenue Assembly Plant allows the company
to continue to meet our customers' desire to keep these special cars
exclusive.

Customer and dealer demand for the SRT Viper continues at expected levels.
We will be able to take advantage of this transition to manage dealer
inventories as we prepare for an exciting 2015 model year.

[ACRucrazy]

I hope this shut down could be for a plant retooling. That sure would be great. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I seem to recall Jan/Feb being the slowest months in viper sales historically, like less than 100 per month.

[Thawk97]

If they're being honest about expected levels, hopefully it's not as doom and gloom as it sounds. I suppose any decent forecaster should have predicted a slowdown this time of year (combo of winter and hype around the Vette).

I wish the Homecoming trip didn't have to fall during the shutdown though - that's a major bummer - don't suppose there's anything that can be done? Seeing the Viper plant with all those beauties on the line has been a dream of mine since I was a kid - was really looking forward to it.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Yeah plenty have cheered this the entire time. I guess there will be plenty happy people that the Viper could be dead, again.

Shame. Oh well

Yes, well deserved cheers for people who were abused by owners like you who threw the "TROLL" word around anytime a critical opinion on the Gen5 was expressed.

[Mamba52]

Yeah plenty have cheered this the entire time. I guess there will be plenty happy people that the Viper could be dead, again.

Shame. Oh well

No one to blame but SRT themselves. To little to late. The market has spoken and SRT did not listen.

[Mamba52]

Picked up my Vette for 73k loaded and wow this is a car. Headers and ECS superchager $7k RWHP 600= VIPER DEAD. I don't care if I see one every day this car rocks try one out there both American !!!! The Viper should have never gone retro. If it had bad ass looks I would have pulled the trigger. Wake up SRT!!!!!! ACR, VERT ! Gen 6

[KRATEDISEASE]

Oh yah, they can keep the stupid computer locked at this point.

No one cares anymore.

[ViperSmith]

Yes, well deserved cheers for people who were abused by owners like you who threw the "TROLL" word around anytime a critical opinion on the Gen5 was expressed.
You are a troll who has contributed nothing to this forum.

It fits. You openly admit to trolling.

[daytonprowler]

Chrysler's official response

The SRT Viper is a hand-crafted American exotic car that is designed for a
specific consumer that values performance, style and exclusivity. It has
never been intended to be a mass-production vehicle as less than 29,000
vehicles have been produced in the past 20 years. The ability to increase and
decrease production at the Conner Avenue Assembly Plant allows the company
to continue to meet our customers' desire to keep these special cars
exclusive.

Customer and dealer demand for the SRT Viper continues at expected levels.
We will be able to take advantage of this transition to manage dealer
inventories as we prepare for an exciting 2015 model year.

Just thought I would post this again.

[ViperSmith]

No one to blame but SRT themselves. To little to late. The market has spoken and SRT did not listen.

Viper faithful didn't help its case at all.

If the negativity surrounding the car existed from people that owned previous generations existed before ordering opened up I doubt I would have gotten one. Oddly the VCA site was helpful in me deciding to get the car. It was simply part of my research.

Honestly it hasn't gotten even a fair shake from previous generations of viper owners.

It is a pretty minor part of the equation, but still a factor. We all know SRT dropped the ball on launch.

But the "faithful" have been all but rude to people new to the brand. It has been far from a welcoming community.

Can Ralph save it? We shall see is it doom for the Viper? Time shall tell.

Not saying anyone had to like the car, but lord - as someone new to the community it isn't welcoming at all.

Oh well, my 5 still runs and puts a smile on my face and I'll continue telling people it does.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Post Edited for personal attacks and name calling which is not allowed on this forum.

[21 Bubba]

As much as I hate to say it, I don't believe the doors will reopen.

[ViperSmith]

Removed post from Krated, which included personal attack and name calling - Viper Girl

Can you post links to technical threads in the Gen V forum you've created?

Thanks - id love to see them to see how you've contributed, other than admitting to trolling Gen V owners.

[ACRucrazy]

As much as I hate to say it, I don't believe the doors will reopen.

But they are not closed?

[Russ Oasis]

It's ironic that I picked up my 2014 GTS today and then heard the news. I'm so happy I got the one I want. If everyone had an afternoon with the car, all of the existing inventory would be sold out. The car is incredible. It's so rigid and tight. I LOVE it. We should never let a car magazine have a Viper without providing our own driver....Kuno, Dominick, Jonathan, etc. Why let the magazines' incompetence behind the wheel dictate how the articles are written. If one of our drivers drove and the magazines let each name plate choose who they want to drive their cars, we would slay them all. To me THAT'S the biggest mistake. Vipers cry out for drivers with talent, not magazine editors or test drivers who normally drive other nameplates (read: nanny controlled cars) to get everything out of them.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Can you post links to technical threads in the Gen V forum you've created?

Thanks - id love to see them to see how you've contributed, other than admitting to trolling Gen V owners.

Your name calling and finger pointing is inflammatory and antagonistic.

You want an argument with me because it would allow your inner negativity to rise from deep within and the more you let it out, the better you feel. You want a heated angry argument with me so that you can put someone else in a state of upset and internal anger. You like to upset people with your insults and finger pointing. The more you upset others, the better you feel.

Is that the real reason you name call and finger point ? The problem is that you purchased a gen5 viper and any criticism of your purchase feels like a indirect criticism of you. This is some thing that you need to lash out at because it makes you angry.

The short comings of the gen5 are irrelevant compared to the anger you feel inside as to how you are perceived as a owner of one , while suffering such self hate on other levels of your life.

Your anger with me is not about this silly car. It is about your issues and your desire to make sure that others are just as miserable as you are in your NON Viper life and to make sure others are just as criticized as you feel internally.

---------------------------------------------------------

I still fell that 700hp would have made a difference in sales.

[ViperSmith]

Your name calling and finger pointing is inflammatory and antagonistic.

You want an argument with me because it would allow your inner negativity to rise from deep within and the more you let it out, the better you feel. You want a heated angry argument with me so that you can put someone else in a state of upset and internal anger. You like to upset people with your insults and finger pointing. The more you upset others, the better you feel.

Is that the real reason you name call and finger point ? The problem is that you purchased a gen5 viper and any criticism of your purchase feels like a indirect criticism of you. This is some thing that you need to lash out at because it makes you angry.

The short comings of the gen5 are irrelevant compared to the anger you feel inside as to how you are perceived as a owner of one , while suffering such self hate on other levels of your life.

Your anger with me is not about this silly car. It is about your issues and your desire to make sure that others are just as miserable as you are in your NON Viper life and to make sure others are just as criticized as you feel internally.

---------------------------------------------------------

I still fell that 700hp would have made a difference in sales.

So, no, you have nothing to show that you've contributed to this forum, besides admitting you troll it.

Great to know.

[KRATEDISEASE]

So, no, you have nothing to show that you've contributed to this forum, besides admitting you troll it.

Great to know.

Do not try to change the topic of your self hate and the misery that you spread.

[slitherv10]

Does anyone have stats of sports cars that have sold more than 2000 units costing over 100K ? I think you would be hard fought to find that stat.

That being said,

The Viper brand is not , as we all know, an automobile built to support its value and contribute to capital gains among its manufacture. It is merely , or was merely, a halo car for Chrysler under the Dodge brand. Which could afford to make and flaunt this car back in the day as it had back up money coming from daddy Chrysler.
Now with Fiat as the step dad, it seems inevitable that the step son (Viper) will not be getting the same treatment or allowance that Chrysler (biological dad) was giving back in the day when things were as merry between father and son.
Step daddy Fiat is obviously looking at keeping its halo son the Ferrari with an allowance and giving the step son Viper an ultimatum, sink or swim. Hard to swim with no money to fill the swimming pool.
SRT and the Viper cannot continue to survive if Fiat is not supporting it as did Chrysler. The sales numbers will never be enough to support SRT, it should not be the point. The point should be whether or not Fiat wants to continue to supply the funds to keep this car at the level it deserves and needs to be at in order to maintain its stature and thus make the sales.
They need to bring fund SRT as did Chrysler and produce the ACR with extremely aggressive looks, and Hp to shut the Competition up. Not that we need the extra HP, not that we needed the 19 speaker system either but we got it.

The ACR or BUST !!

[IndyRon]

I'll post my take since everyone else is....and since it is different from most others. The new car just isn't that amazing. I have a Gen IV ACR and there isn't a single Gen V Viper of any option package that I would have over the ACR even if I were offered even swap for a new car...It just isn't really better. First and foremost, none of them are nowhere near as badass looking as the Gen IV ACR. Secondly, it isn't appreciably faster. Third, it has ZERO upgradeability (if that's a word).

To sell an American Supercar you need styling first and foremost and the Gen 5, while nice, is just that, nice, not badass in its appearance, stance, or design...a warmed over Gen 2 with a very nice interior. Performance is marginally improved in a straight line....that's the best they could do in 6 years of engineering R&D from '08 till now? Secondly, you need gobs of power over anything else if your price is going to be north of 100k....It doesn't have it. If the Viper had seen and improvement on design and performance of the caliber of the C6 to C7, the thing would be sold out.

I love all the cars from Gen 1 on and hope they keep making the cars, but they need a revolutionary designer like those at Ferrari who designed the LaFerrari, or Lambo who designed the Aventador. The car needs that cutting edge of a design...

[Newport Viper]

The Vette guys are worried if no Viper ....no future ZR1....

[KRATEDISEASE]

The Vette guys are worried if no Viper ....no future ZR1....

So true.

[Derek Short]

It's ironic that I picked up my 2014 GTS today and then heard the news. I'm so happy I got the one I want. If everyone had an afternoon with the car, all of the existing inventory would be sold out. The car is incredible. It's so rigid and tight. I LOVE it. We should never let a car magazine have a Viper without providing our own driver....Kuno, Dominick, Jonathan, etc. Why let the magazines' incompetence behind the wheel dictate how the articles are written. If one of our drivers drove and the magazines let each name plate choose who they want to drive their cars, we would slay them all. To me THAT'S the biggest mistake. Vipers cry out for drivers with talent, not magazine editors or test drivers who normally drive other nameplates (read: nanny controlled cars) to get everything out of them.

I agree.
The car really is simply an amazing car. I am not yet a Gen 5 owner. Mostly due to high prices. But i am a DIEHARD Viper lover! Always have been since I was a kid and saw one. I would love to just go out and purchase a Gen 5 but for me and im sure many others its the price point thats holding so many back from pulling the trigger. I could get a base SRT 2013/2014 Viper but for me my first Viper was a 96' GTS and a GTS is what im really looking for. But at the current prices of the GTS they are still just a bit out of reach.

[100]

SRT -- please don't build a convertible -- refine the TA and take it to the Nürburgring. (and don't build an SUV either.)

[slitherv10]

SRT -- please don't build a convertible -- refine the TA and take it to the Nürburgring. (and don't build an SUV either.)

I think you might have something there !!

[slitherv10]

So true.

As I quoted earlier in another thread, rumor has it, the ZR1 will debut late 2015 with approx. 680-700 HP

[KRATEDISEASE]

Well, I predicted that the Viper would not sell like gang busters. I also predicted that the C7 Z06 would have an automatic transmission. Now I am going to predict that there will NOT be a ZR1 model above the C7 Z06. At least not until Obama gets kicked out of the White House.

[Brian GTS]

It's ironic that I picked up my 2014 GTS today and then heard the news. I'm so happy I got the one I want. If everyone had an afternoon with the car, all of the existing inventory would be sold out. The car is incredible. It's so rigid and tight. I LOVE it. We should never let a car magazine have a Viper without providing our own driver....Kuno, Dominick, Jonathan, etc. Why let the magazines' incompetence behind the wheel dictate how the articles are written. If one of our drivers drove and the magazines let each name plate choose who they want to drive their cars, we would slay them all. To me THAT'S the biggest mistake. Vipers cry out for drivers with talent, not magazine editors or test drivers who normally drive other nameplates (read: nanny controlled cars) to get everything out of them.

AGREED!!! If potential buyers knew how great this car really was, this problem would not exist. I'm a Gen II fanatic and have also owned Gen III / IV cars, but this Gen V has me hooked!!! Every time I drive it, I start questioning whether I should sell one of my Gen II's to get another Gen V. The car is simply phenomenal in every respect.

[Coloviper]

Still can not believe anyone here with any sense of style can have any appeal for that abortion of a design class called the C7. The thing is just hideous. Right up there with the worst looking sports cars ever made. Performance it has, technology it has but appealing looks it absolutely does not. If that is where new cars are going on style, I guess I will be buying a lot of used pre-2014 vehicles in life.

New Gen V issue is price point plain and simple. I love the car but it cost too much in 2006 and cost too much in 2013/2014. Who knew that a Viper crushing program would be a precursor to news like this. It does show an insight into what the new company thinks of the Viper. Same BS internal lawyer probably recommended to just end current production too to save on liability but I really think they are retooling for 2015 Convertible. At this point what have they hot to lose? That would be smart despite what some say here. Another coupe varient like the ACR is not going to save it. Foolish to even think so. They should not have broken tradition and released with a convertible anyway.

[Leojmcca]

The Motor Trend article killed the hype on the Gen. V. The T/A run failed to cure the damage done.

Price is too high, that's why you have supply.

They need to build an ACR that will beat the 7:08 Nismo time at the ring, drop the price, add a double clutch automatic tranny option.

[640bhpV10]

Well, I predicted that the Viper would not sell like gang busters. I also predicted that the C7 Z06 would have an automatic transmission. Now I am going to predict that there will NOT be a ZR1 model above the C7 Z06. At least not until Obama gets kicked out of the White House.

Do you have the winning combo for next weeks super jackpot? That would also be pretty helpful...

-Nick

[Viper Girl]

It's ironic that I picked up my 2014 GTS today and then heard the news. I'm so happy I got the one I want. If everyone had an afternoon with the car, all of the existing inventory would be sold out. The car is incredible. It's so rigid and tight. I LOVE it. We should never let a car magazine have a Viper without providing our own driver....Kuno, Dominick, Jonathan, etc. Why let the magazines' incompetence behind the wheel dictate how the articles are written. If one of our drivers drove and the magazines let each name plate choose who they want to drive their cars, we would slay them all. To me THAT'S the biggest mistake. Vipers cry out for drivers with talent, not magazine editors or test drivers who normally drive other nameplates (read: nanny controlled cars) to get everything out of them.
Congrats on your new GTS Russ!

[KRATEDISEASE]

Do you have the winning combo for next weeks super jackpot? That would also be pretty helpful...

-Nick

Try 38,13,26,42,17, 9, 11,29. Just don't tell anyone these numbers or you will end up having to share the jackpot !!!

[swexlin]

I agree.
The car really is simply an amazing car. I am not yet a Gen 5 owner. Mostly due to high prices. But i am a DIEHARD Viper lover! Always have been since I was a kid and saw one. I would love to just go out and purchase a Gen 5 but for me and im sure many others its the price point thats holding so many back from pulling the trigger. I could get a base SRT 2013/2014 Viper but for me my first Viper was a 96' GTS and a GTS is what im really looking for. But at the current prices of the GTS they are still just a bit out of reach.

I could have posted this same thing myself. To even get into a Gen 4 ( I have a 2003) both my Viper and my SRT8 would have to go. The Gen 5 is out of reach for me. However, if I could afford one, I'd be in a T/A in an instant!

[FLATOUT]

Picked up my Vette for 73k loaded and wow this is a car. Headers and ECS superchager $7k RWHP 600= VIPER DEAD. I don't care if I see one every day this car rocks try one out there both American !!!! The Viper should have never gone retro. If it had bad ass looks I would have pulled the trigger. Wake up SRT!!!!!! ACR, VERT ! Gen 6

You could have had a gen IV ACR with OVER 600rwhp with boltons lol. I've owned centri blower vettes and nothing makes as much reliable NA power as the setup a lot of gen IV guys and soon to be gen V guys will have.

[Canadian venom]

It's ironic that I picked up my 2014 GTS today and then heard the news. I'm so happy I got the one I want. If everyone had an afternoon with the car, all of the existing inventory would be sold out. The car is incredible. It's so rigid and tight. I LOVE it. We should never let a car magazine have a Viper without providing our own driver....Kuno, Dominick, Jonathan, etc. Why let the magazines' incompetence behind the wheel dictate how the articles are written. If one of our drivers drove and the magazines let each name plate choose who they want to drive their cars, we would slay them all. To me THAT'S the biggest mistake. Vipers cry out for drivers with talent, not magazine editors or test drivers who normally drive other nameplates (read: nanny controlled cars) to get everything out of them.

I more than agree with you but since day 1, the biggest weakness of the car was its marketing. Launch edition cars were made to sit on dealers showroom instead of going in the hands of current owners that waited months to get theirs cars. Unppreped cars given to magazines, Slow to respond on bad articles (beside Ralph, who seemed to be fighting alone) and bad mouthing by "viper lovers" who haven't even drove the new car....all involved with the Viper are passionate about it but it seems the passion stop when it hit the marketing dept's door. The marketing should be lead by someone who is passionate about the car, it's legacy and of course the brand. Anything related with Aston Martin should go.....

[Policy Limits]

[QUOTE=Policy Limits;39714]Mag rags and poor launch / marketing are variables. But viper owners themselves played a role. A year ago posts on line from viper guys about the V were so critical that it bordered on malicious. Hope those folks are happy.[/QU

Ironic was it not?

I'd call it "effective" before I'd call it "ironic"

[Policy Limits]

Question, as of 3/19/14, how many 2013's were made & sold?

Same question for MY 2014 thus far ?

[v10enomous]

If there were a $50k Viper with 450hp the CAAP couldn't keep up with demand and the 640HP Viper would benefit from the economy of scale just like... well you know...

[ViperSmith]

I love that everyone still thinks an ACR will fix all sales woes.

Have you even looked at past production numbers for the ACR? It sold at most 250 a year for the Gen IV.

Clearly the ticket is the Vert - seeing as what over half of Vipers are Verts?

Vert would help, ACR not as much.

[Policy Limits]

If there were a $50k Viper with 450hp the CAAP couldn't keep up with demand and the 640HP Viper would benefit from the economy of scale just like... well you know...
Makes sense but man do I hate mass production & brand dilution. Like Maserati dropping 4 million bucks for ad space on the last Super Bowl. The traditional audience of which would typically be a consumer in the market for a pick up truck instead. But it was done to market a 70k Ghilbi; ugh. I've already seen three on the road while in my Granturismo Sport; makes it feel not as special even though its nearly double the price. I get it; everine has seen the profitability of Porsche with inferior transportation vehicles and wants to share in similar spoils. But an exotic supercar was never about transportation. The average snake owner from any gen puts about 2k on the odometer annually. I'd gave a difficult time dropping 100k on the new Z06 when it so closely resembles the base model. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd rather see no viper production at all rather than a toned down inferior version marketed to the masses. But that's me.

[RedTanRT/10]

Question, as of 3/19/14, how many 2013's were made & sold?

Same question for MY 2014 thus far ?

You'd need to ask someone at Chrysler for the detail on '13 and '14 specifics

Total Gen 5 production through 3/15/14 is 1,584

Total US Gen 5 retail sales through 2/28/14 is 682

Estimated units in inventory at 2/28/14 is 800

[VRYALT3R3D]

I feel the issue is with the dealers, not the Viper.

The Viper is sold out from an OEM's perspective. The only issue is for the dealers who have them on floorplan. I think many dealers have them on the lot loaded to maximize profits. These dealers tend to be not willing to negotiate and have poor sales staff. Since it is on floorplan and the banks own them, they have no incentive to sell them...yet. Which is why so many are on the lot.

[Mamba52]

I started looking at the Viper way back at the New York auto show. I tried to test drive one from the dealer I purchased my 04 from (Palmer Dodge) nope. Then when the fire sale started I looked at one (11/13) Ringold Dodge. They were going to give me $35k for mine and wanted $85 for the white with black stripe GTS and still no test drive. So I drove down to Hendrick Chevy test drove the C7 and purchased it on the spot.

Ironic as I finally got to test drive the Viper the next week at the SRT drive event in Atlanta. Showed up in my new Vette.
Glad I picked the Vette and still have my 04 Viper win win for me.

[ohlarikd]

Chrysler's official responseThe SRT Viper is a hand-crafted American exotic car that is designed for a specific consumer that values performance, style and exclusivity. It has never been intended to be a mass-production vehicle as less than 29,000 vehicles have been produced in the past 20 years. The ability to increase and decrease production at the Conner Avenue Assembly Plant allows the company to continue to meet our customers' desire to keep these special cars exclusive.Customer and dealer demand for the SRT Viper continues at expected levels. We will be able to take advantage of this transition to manage dealer inventories as we prepare for an exciting 2015 model year.I understand this theory, but when you have a 400+ day supply already built, this idea that they are trying to keep them exclusive is not really holding up in this particular case. Customer and dealer demand cannot have been expected to be 400+ days. Nobody really knows all the various reasons why its not selling. There are plenty of Gen5 Vipers under $100K now, not sure if at least those are selling? If they are not selling, than its hard to blame price. A base stock SRT Viper is still a VERY nice car that no one would be ashamed of.My personal belief is that many former owners who would be Gen5 customers do not see a good enough reason to upgrade - similar body style, similar power. Nicer interior, but past Vipers owners really never cared about that. The NEW market that SRT was going after never materialized, and the old market didn't see enough change. There is nothing wrong with this car - as many owners can attest, and there really isn't. I still think the sub-100K Vipers should sell - I really don't know why they haven't. Or have they? Woodhouse? ViperExchange? IS there any greater demand for the cheaper discounted Vipers? Its a great car.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Question, as of 3/19/14, how many 2013's were made & sold?

Same question for MY 2014 thus far ?
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/dodge-viper-sales-figures.html

[RedTanRT/10]

I feel the issue is with the dealers, not the Viper.

The Viper is sold out from an OEM's perspective. The only issue is for the dealers who have them on floorplan. I think many dealers have them on the lot loaded to maximize profits. These dealers tend to be not willing to negotiate and have poor sales staff. Since it is on floorplan and the banks own them, they have no incentive to sell them...yet. Which is why so many are on the lot.

Not to be the dealer defender but you've got your comments incorrect. Who says the viper is sold out?? Retail demand is not there and I've got to believe that the dealers quit taking the vipers that are being produced. that's why they stopped production, happens all the time in the auto industry, reduce the supply to match the demand.

99% of all US dealers have all their new cars on floorplan, the dealers own them and the banks or finance companies charge interest to carry the loan. There were plenty of dealers trying to hit home runs early on, since the fall, prices are dropping and some are selling at fire sale prices. Many dealers are losing money on selling vipers right now.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Not to be the dealer defender but you've got your comments incorrect. Who says the viper is sold out?? Retail demand is not there and I've got to believe that the dealers quit taking the vipers that are being produced. that's why they stopped production, happens all the time in the auto industry, reduce the supply to match the demand.

When the Viper is delivered to the dealer from the factory, it counts as a sale to Chrysler. It doesn't count as a retail sale though.

[Mamba52]

Not to be the dealer defender but you've got your comments incorrect. Who says the viper is sold out?? Retail demand is not there and I've got to believe that the dealers quit taking the vipers that are being produced. that's why they stopped production, happens all the time in the auto industry, reduce the supply to match the demand.

99% of all US dealers have all their new cars on floorplan, the dealers own them and the banks or finance companies charge interest to carry the loan. There were plenty of dealers trying to hit home runs early on, since the fall, prices are dropping and some are selling at fire sale prices. Many dealers are losing money on selling vipers right now.


That's what was going on at the former Ringold Dodge dealer. Customers canceled orders and they sent the unsold cars to the auction.

[RedTanRT/10]

When the Viper is delivered to the dealer from the factory, it counts as a sale to Chrysler. It doesn't count as a retail sale though.

Yes, and the dealer buys the car via his floorplan. More than likey what is happening now is that their building unallocated cars that they can't place (sell) to dealers.

[v10enomous]

I hear you but unfortunately you mat get what you would rather see... I don't know... How many R8's does Audi sell... anybody ?


Makes sense but man do I hate mass production & brand dilution. Like Maserati dropping 4 million bucks for ad space on the last Super Bowl. The traditional audience of which would typically be a consumer in the market for a pick up truck instead. But it was done to market a 70k Ghilbi; ugh. I've already seen three on the road while in my Granturismo Sport; makes it feel not as special even though its nearly double the price. I get it; everine has seen the profitability of Porsche with inferior transportation vehicles and wants to share in similar spoils. But an exotic supercar was never about transportation. The average snake owner from any gen puts about 2k on the odometer annually. I'd gave a difficult time dropping 100k on the new Z06 when it so closely resembles the base model. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd rather see no viper production at all rather than a toned down inferior version marketed to the masses. But that's me.

[VRYALT3R3D]

I hear you but unfortunately you mat get what you would rather see... I don't know... How many R8's does Audi sell... anybody ?

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/audi-r8-sales-figures.html

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/nissan-gt-r-sales-figures.html

Interestingly, the SRT Viper outsells the GT-R in Canada in 2014.

[ViperSmith]

That's what was going on at the former Ringold Dodge dealer. Customers canceled orders and they sent the unsold cars to the auction.

Sadly the launch out of the gate didn't help, nor did dealers tacking on ADMs (I'd LOVE to know how many dealers that had $20, $50k ADMs are now sitting on the cars unsold)

The frustration that came from people who custom ordered cars, while cars sat on lots unsold with markups, didn't help SRTs case. Dealer greed, IMHO, possibly ruined the prospects of the Gen V.

[commandomatt]

I love that everyone still thinks an ACR will fix all sales woes.

Have you even looked at past production numbers for the ACR? It sold at most 250 a year for the Gen IV.

Clearly the ticket is the Vert - seeing as what over half of Vipers are Verts?

Vert would help, ACR not as much.

The ACR would change the game since it would be a car that would clearly be built to perform even better then the current V. This will bring attention to the V and ultimately increase the sales for the base car as well. Car like this will race the bar for the SRT brand period and be the best form of advertising they can get.

You also need to get your facts in order before throwing out numbers in regards to what sold and what didn't. How many coupes did they build/offer between 2003 and 2005 ? If you don't even offer a roof car, its hard for people to buy them. As it stands now, the 2006 coupe is more sought after and fetches a higher price than previous Gen 3's.

[mikesax]

My 2nd GTS arrives from Roanoke next week-White with Silver stripes and all carbon fiber-can't wait!! I live in Jersey so I haven't driven my 2013 much over the last 3 months, but Ive had it out 3 days this week and was able to add 500 miles to the 11,000 plus I put on it last year-INTOXICATING!!!!! I LOVED my 2 2010 verts, traded one last spring thinking I would keep the other to go with my 2013- but once I experienced the Gen V-it was no problem to trade up again-this car is EXCEPTIONAL in every way compared to ANY car I've ever owned!! I put ZERO miles on my vert once I drove the Gen V-EVERY mile has been a joy since day one with this car!! As I've said in the past-this car gets better every day!! When I saw the sales numbers last year I figured something like this(temporary closing of CAAP) might happen-I'm glad I acted purchasing again when I did! It's SCARY how few Vipers have been sold-I don't know how SRT can capture the "excitement" again to get potential customers to "want to" have this car- the launch had to be almost "perfect" with regards to extended hype-and unfortunately there was too much deserved/undeserved negativity in the media! Branding is so important-getting our "beloved" Viper to be in the same "perceived" class as the other $100,000-$150,000 sports cars wasn't going to be easy-and now this! The Viper is AMAZING in every area-it is the equal and than some of cars twice the price-now the high end exotic buying public has to believe it and buy it-I don't know how given it's marketing budget and dealer network-but than again you never know!

[ViperSmith]

The ACR would change the game since it would be a car that would clearly be built to perform even better then the current V. This will bring attention to the V and ultimately increase the sales for the base car as well. Car like this will race the bar for the SRT brand period and be the best form of advertising they can get.

You also need to get your facts in order before throwing out numbers in regards to what sold and what didn't. How many coupes did they build/offer between 2003 and 2005 ? If you don't even offer a roof car, its hard for people to buy them. As it stands now, the 2006 coupe is more sought after and fetches a higher price than previous Gen 3's.

There have been over 18,000 Verts built - no where close that number of coupes. Just a fact of production numbers over the cars lifespan.

Even over that entire time the ACR has been a sliver of total sales.

A Vert would do wonders to help out.

[slitherv10]

[QUOTE=slitherv10;39728]

I'd call it "effective" before I'd call it "ironic"

Two peas in a pod

[Dman]

ADMs and Price, I don't buy it as a problem - pun intended. I hate, really hate, to reference the friggin GT500, but it sold with ADMs for 2 yrs and you almost had to order one to get it, a $75K+ mustang ... everyone said, who's going to pay that for a mustang. Well, everyone paid it. I bought 2 and I was one of the guys laughing at a $75k stang. ADMs and a ridiculous price for the model, and it sold like hotcakes. We have dealers selling at $30K discounts and the cars are still sitting. $15k discounts are standard.

The launch was a disaster, the marketing was a disaster. The struggle was having to spend most of the $ they had on govt compliance, stability control, etc., it's amazing they got an extra 40hp considering what was left over to work with, hell the big stiffening effort was a cross brace, smart, cheap, but not exactly rocket science - due to budget. But the marketing dept should be shot, broken cars & mules going to tests, and they never focused t recover. Accelerating the TA could've been a second launch but then they dropped the ball again.

Anyway. Why haven't I bought? I love my gen4, the gen5 doesn't offer enough to make me thrilled, at these discounts I went in to look again to consider going ahead and buying, but I can't fit in it, so I need a vert ... and there is no vert, so ...

I wonder what the announcement will be in April people are talking about ... a Gen5 vert or just a new color or an new SRT model???

[TitleMine]

Woof, what bad news! Ok, a couple of thoughts:

1. I'm a re-seller of used exotic cars. As some correctly pointed out, January-February is the worst time for sales (and thus the time I ALWAYS buy). Bad numbers during this time for the Viper is kind of a no-brainier. That's not the reason why they shut down; I'd be astonished if they had high sales during this time.

2. When I was looking to get a Viper initially, the community of owners in summer/fall of last year really turned me off. We've been a Corvette family till now, and their owner's forum is supportive and universally helpful. I save probably $3,000+ on repairs per year thanks to the helpful and friendly people over there. Meanwhile, I seek out an equivalent for the Viper, and find a VCA that's imploding and mired in drama that's difficult to understand (and with a G5 forum loaded to the gills with trolls), a VOA that was still under development. Don't get me started on what the Alley is like for new users. It's like 4Chan with supercars.

3. SRT's marketing to this point has been terrible. That's been gone over endlessly. They need to up their cool game a lot. The G5 Viper should have been the car animated in Archer and in commercials and promotional spots on various ABC shows, not the Challenger.

4. Dealers and SRT are not willing to take the agonizing steps necessary to recover from the launch bungling and MT review and revitalize the brand. Like it or lump it, the 2013 launch went badly. They need to quickly purge that inventory and move on. Yet I see dealers still charging at or near (or in a few cases, unbelievably, above) MSRP for LAUNCH EDITIONS. They need to cut prices on 13 GTSes down to where they sell, maybe $110K or lower fully optioned. Just get what money you can back out and move on quickly.

5. The car lost some of its soul. In 1996, nobody would have compared a Z51 Vette to a Viper. Heck, even comparing it to a 355 ended embarrassingly for Ferrari most of the time; the interior sucked, but it was faster and it didn't fall apart after one mile on the track or cost $10,000/yr to maintain like the Ferrari did. The new one wasn't radical enough; had it been designed with the ethos of the old car, in a world of 660HP mustangs and 640HP Vettes, it'd have had 750HP out of the gate. Yeah, you don't "need" it, but when was that rationale ever used with the Viper in the past? You don't need 13" rubber and 8+ liters either. The Viper is about more than you need.

6. The price point doesn't really make sense. Porsche has gotten some traction there with their upscale Turbo models, but 120,000-200,000 is like the death zone for car prices. It's too expensive for an Engineer or average lawyer to afford with ease, but too cheap for a highly-paid law partner or banker or CEO to buy as their pride and joy. I really think they either needed to cut corners and come in closer to $100K with the GTS, or go full out and make it a $200,000 car. I really believe a $200,000 car with the kit to match the price tag (750-800HP, CCBS, DCT option, etc.) would have sold better than this one.

7. Get butts in seats. I don't have a Gen V, but the only people I know who hate on them fall into one category: Never drove it. Drive it, even if you don't buy, you'll love it anyway.

[MtnBiker]

Picked up my Vette for 73k loaded and wow this is a car. Headers and ECS superchager $7k RWHP 600= VIPER DEAD. I don't care if I see one every day this car rocks try one out there both American !!!! The Viper should have never gone retro. If it had bad ass looks I would have pulled the trigger. Wake up SRT!!!!!! ACR, VERT ! Gen 6

I doubt anyone cares that you bought a Vette. I don't.

[KRATEDISEASE]

5. The car lost some of its soul. In 1996, nobody would have compared a Z51 Vette to a Viper. Heck, even comparing it to a 355 ended embarrassingly for Ferrari most of the time; the interior sucked, but it was faster and it didn't fall apart after one mile on the track or cost $10,000/yr to maintain like the Ferrari did. The new one wasn't radical enough; had it been designed with the ethos of the old car, in a world of 660HP mustangs and 640HP Vettes, it'd have had 750HP out of the gate. Yeah, you don't "need" it, but when was that rationale ever used with the Viper in the past? You don't need 13" rubber and 8+ liters either. The Viper is about more than you need.

Yes, and this is why owners supercharge Vipers.

The car needed 750hp out of the box to sell like gang busters.

Horsepower sells. No one uses it but what bragging rights !

[swexlin]

Woof, what bad news! Ok, a couple of thoughts:

1. I'm a re-seller of used exotic cars. As some correctly pointed out, January-February is the worst time for sales (and thus the time I ALWAYS buy). Bad numbers during this time for the Viper is kind of a no-brainier. That's not the reason why they shut down; I'd be astonished if they had high sales during this time.

2. When I was looking to get a Viper initially, the community of owners in summer/fall of last year really turned me off. We've been a Corvette family till now, and their owner's forum is supportive and universally helpful. I save probably $3,000+ on repairs per year thanks to the helpful and friendly people over there. Meanwhile, I seek out an equivalent for the Viper, and find a VCA that's imploding and mired in drama that's difficult to understand (and with a G5 forum loaded to the gills with trolls), a VOA that was still under development. Don't get me started on what the Alley is like for new users. It's like 4Chan with supercars.

3. SRT's marketing to this point has been terrible. That's been gone over endlessly. They need to up their cool game a lot. The G5 Viper should have been the car animated in Archer and in commercials and promotional spots on various ABC shows, not the Challenger.

4. Dealers and SRT are not willing to take the agonizing steps necessary to recover from the launch bungling and MT review and revitalize the brand. Like it or lump it, the 2013 launch went badly. They need to quickly purge that inventory and move on. Yet I see dealers still charging at or near (or in a few cases, unbelievably, above) MSRP for LAUNCH EDITIONS. They need to cut prices on 13 GTSes down to where they sell, maybe $110K or lower fully optioned. Just get what money you can back out and move on quickly.

5. The car lost some of its soul. In 1996, nobody would have compared a Z51 Vette to a Viper. Heck, even comparing it to a 355 ended embarrassingly for Ferrari most of the time; the interior sucked, but it was faster and it didn't fall apart after one mile on the track or cost $10,000/yr to maintain like the Ferrari did. The new one wasn't radical enough; had it been designed with the ethos of the old car, in a world of 660HP mustangs and 640HP Vettes, it'd have had 750HP out of the gate. Yeah, you don't "need" it, but when was that rationale ever used with the Viper in the past? You don't need 13" rubber and 8+ liters either. The Viper is about more than you need.

6. The price point doesn't really make sense. Porsche has gotten some traction there with their upscale Turbo models, but 120,000-200,000 is like the death zone for car prices. It's too expensive for an Engineer or average lawyer to afford with ease, but too cheap for a highly-paid law partner or banker or CEO to buy as their pride and joy. I really think they either needed to cut corners and come in closer to $100K with the GTS, or go full out and make it a $200,000 car. I really believe a $200,000 car with the kit to match the price tag (750-800HP, CCBS, DCT option, etc.) would have sold better than this one.

7. Get butts in seats. I don't have a Gen V, but the only people I know who hate on them fall into one category: Never drove it. Drive it, even if you don't buy, you'll love it anyway.

This is one of the best and most insightful posts I have read anywhere on this topic. Bravo, and I agree.

[Thawk97]

“Chrysler Group confirms that its Conner Avenue Assembly Plant will be down, beginning the week of April 14,” Chrysler spokesperson Jodi Tinson revealed to The Detroit News. “Production will resume the week of June 23.”

So maybe the line will be operating during the homecoming?

[Mamba52]

No problem. Just wanted to let SRT know we're my money went. Retro killed the Gen5.

[HobokenViper]

Woof, what bad news! Ok, a couple of thoughts:

1. I'm a re-seller of used exotic cars. As some correctly pointed out, January-February is the worst time for sales (and thus the time I ALWAYS buy). Bad numbers during this time for the Viper is kind of a no-brainier. That's not the reason why they shut down; I'd be astonished if they had high sales during this time.

2. When I was looking to get a Viper initially, the community of owners in summer/fall of last year really turned me off. We've been a Corvette family till now, and their owner's forum is supportive and universally helpful. I save probably $3,000+ on repairs per year thanks to the helpful and friendly people over there. Meanwhile, I seek out an equivalent for the Viper, and find a VCA that's imploding and mired in drama that's difficult to understand (and with a G5 forum loaded to the gills with trolls), a VOA that was still under development. Don't get me started on what the Alley is like for new users. It's like 4Chan with supercars.

3. SRT's marketing to this point has been terrible. That's been gone over endlessly. They need to up their cool game a lot. The G5 Viper should have been the car animated in Archer and in commercials and promotional spots on various ABC shows, not the Challenger.

4. Dealers and SRT are not willing to take the agonizing steps necessary to recover from the launch bungling and MT review and revitalize the brand. Like it or lump it, the 2013 launch went badly. They need to quickly purge that inventory and move on. Yet I see dealers still charging at or near (or in a few cases, unbelievably, above) MSRP for LAUNCH EDITIONS. They need to cut prices on 13 GTSes down to where they sell, maybe $110K or lower fully optioned. Just get what money you can back out and move on quickly.

5. The car lost some of its soul. In 1996, nobody would have compared a Z51 Vette to a Viper. Heck, even comparing it to a 355 ended embarrassingly for Ferrari most of the time; the interior sucked, but it was faster and it didn't fall apart after one mile on the track or cost $10,000/yr to maintain like the Ferrari did. The new one wasn't radical enough; had it been designed with the ethos of the old car, in a world of 660HP mustangs and 640HP Vettes, it'd have had 750HP out of the gate. Yeah, you don't "need" it, but when was that rationale ever used with the Viper in the past? You don't need 13" rubber and 8+ liters either. The Viper is about more than you need.

6. The price point doesn't really make sense. Porsche has gotten some traction there with their upscale Turbo models, but 120,000-200,000 is like the death zone for car prices. It's too expensive for an Engineer or average lawyer to afford with ease, but too cheap for a highly-paid law partner or banker or CEO to buy as their pride and joy. I really think they either needed to cut corners and come in closer to $100K with the GTS, or go full out and make it a $200,000 car. I really believe a $200,000 car with the kit to match the price tag (750-800HP, CCBS, DCT option, etc.) would have sold better than this one.

7. Get butts in seats. I don't have a Gen V, but the only people I know who hate on them fall into one category: Never drove it. Drive it, even if you don't buy, you'll love it anyway.

Great post, couldn't have said it better myself. Unfortunately this is sad news and I hope things improve after this long brutal winter finally ends, but as you said, that's not the real cause for this.....

[VENOM V]

Well this news brought out thoughtful reflection and constructive criticism by the vast majority of posters here, which is good.

And right on cue, it also brought out a few jaded, previous gen owners with chips on their shoulders that are just thrilled to say, "I told you so, the Gen V is a failure." Which is not the case, by the way. Celebrating what they hope is the demise of the Gen V, why they do this is a mystery to me. Perhaps they can't afford a Gen V, even at the discounted prices. Perhaps it makes them feel like their previous gen ride is still special (and it is, they all are!), despite a new generation Viper that has been improved in every measurable way. You know who you are. Bravo. Get some class.

[ViperSmith]

The styling argument is so subjective. I love the way the 5 looks. The 3/4 didn't get me going at all. Personally I dislike the way they look.

In reality, the launch was just an abysmal failure and SRT is now just recovering. As said by others, the $100-200k range is just a bizarre waste land of performance cars (I'd even say lower, $70kish)

And this announcement doesn't help the recovery. Perhaps people will panic and realize it may disappear and gobble them up. Who knows. I doubt we'll see 400 a month sold :)

SRT is doing the right things now. The drive events around the country, good press, better options. Hopefully it gets people buying again.

[08viperviolet]

The Gen V is better than my gen 3,4 had " gen 4 two ACR and it is a better car all the way around if yuo love a Viper drive a gen V and you will feel that it is worth the money. Also it is my daily driver.

[canadian viper]

what i find strange is that i have another car on order, and is in d1 status. it will now be pushed back another few months due to the shut down. they should have built all of the rest of the 14 orders in the system then shut down the plant.

[Policy Limits]

Hopefully production ceases and values soar Ford GT style!

Everyone should be happy with that!....and yet,....I suspect there'd still be complainers. Ha.

[ViperSmith]

what i find strange is that i have another car on order, and is in d1 status. it will now be pushed back another few months due to the shut down. they should have built all of the rest of the 14 orders in the system then shut down the plant.

Someone contacted SRT and all cars in the pipeline to be built will be built, have you contacted SRT?

[Policy Limits]

^^^and this is part of the problem^^^

Months on end to build a car that takes three days to make; after 1/2 year if it I contacted my salesman to cancel the order; meanwhile I applied my deposit to a dealer car so I didn't lose the deposit. Awful launch, awful communication and a very frustrating ordering process. We can all probably agree on that.

On the plus side I learned a big lesson at a relatively small price; which is why I intend to purchase a Huracan already built instead of building one to spec and I hope to do so as 2nd owner so as not to get screwed on pricing.

[ViperSmith]

^^^and this is part of the problem^^^

Months on end to build a car that takes three days to make; after 1/2 year if it I contacted my salesman to cancel the order; meanwhile I applied my deposit to a dealer car so I didn't lose the deposit. Awful launch, awful communication and a very frustrating ordering process. We can all probably agree on that.

On the plus side I learned a big lesson at a relatively small price; which is why I intend to purchase a Huracan already built instead of building one to spec and I hope to do so as 2nd owner so as not to get screwed on pricing.

Could be worse, you could have gotten a GT3 and it sits for 5 months at the dealer why they build a new engine!

Hopefully everything gets sorted.

[Policy Limits]

Yes. Those fires in Europe were really something. I thought only Ferrari's combusted in flames? :)

[IndyRon]

The styling argument is so subjective. I love the way the 5 looks. The 3/4 didn't get me going at all. Personally I dislike the way they look.

In reality, the launch was just an abysmal failure and SRT is now just recovering. As said by others, the $100-200k range is just a bizarre waste land of performance cars (I'd even say lower, $70kish)

And this announcement doesn't help the recovery. Perhaps people will panic and realize it may disappear and gobble them up. Who knows. I doubt we'll see 400 a month sold :)

SRT is doing the right things now. The drive events around the country, good press, better options. Hopefully it gets people buying again.

I agree with it being subjective...though I can't figure not liking a Gen 4 ACR...but of course I'm biased. I do like the Gen 5 and agree it looks much better in person. In pics it just looks to marshmallowy but the lines are nice in person. I guess I was just let down after the couple year hiatus thinking we would have a revolutionary design with an impact much the way the Gen 1 was when introduced. I hope they keep the cars around though as there isn't anything in the price range that gives you the exclusivity, looks, and performance in one package.

[canadian viper]

Someone contacted SRT and all cars in the pipeline to be built will be built, have you contacted SRT?

it will be built for sure. just when the plant starts up again.

[viperdan]

Picked up my Vette for 73k loaded and wow this is a car. Headers and ECS superchager $7k RWHP 600= VIPER DEAD. I don't care if I see one every day this car rocks try one out there both American !!!! The Viper should have never gone retro. If it had bad ass looks I would have pulled the trigger. Wake up SRT!!!!!! ACR, VERT ! Gen 6

What about the orange peel, the fitment, the electronic issues from seat memory to windows indexing to audio/navi problems? You could have had an SRT in the 85-90 range that doesn't need any mods and is still a track monster. You spent 80k on a dime a dozen car that will not hold any resale value, good luck with that!

[Matt M, Pa]

I also would agree with what Titlemine wrote. And I'd add that it doesn't help to only sell through "SRT" dealers. If I recall correctly only about 1 in 5 dealers signed up for the SRT program...limiting the number of dealers that would stock these cars.

I also think at the price point, it now competes with Maserati and others that have the experience (Woodhouse or Tator, for example excluded) to service this type of a buyer.

Do I hate the Gen 5. No. Am I looking to buy a Gen 5? No. I like the earlier cars better...but I'm not bashing the Gen 5. I'm sure it's a great car.

[fastmd]

It has been confirmed that it is a longer shut down because of Sales. Also, SRT said they are downsizing 91 employees because of this.

This is their own fault, I have said it before, it's the dealer network. I would have gladly bought one last year if there was a reputable dealer in my area. Bought my last 2 vipers from Woodhouse and soon as they arrive the warranty is useless, because I have no one in my area.

[ACR Steve]

I believe the last year of the Gen 4 they sold more ACR's then reg coupes and convertibles. Well this tells you if you want to sell cars make the model that people want to buy. I would put money on it that they would have sold out the line if they had an ACR option and or convertible. To try and sell just a coupe for 2 years is tough with our crowd

[TitleMine]

It's all about the performance, Viper guys don't like to lose.

I'm telling you, get one out that's in 918 territory, it'd fly off the lots for $25,000 more than the current GTS.

[Viper Girl]

Vipers have always taken on the more expensive cars out there and either beat them or gave them a run for their money...

I don't know that an almost $1M 918 with hybrid power can be touched... Those electric engines and the immediate torque are a tough package to follow especially for a car that is 1/10th of the price...

It'd be cool if we could... but...

[slitherv10]

Closing for a few weeks will allow them to get the plant ready for convertible production in my opinion. Hopefully they will finish prior orders before shutting down and causing any dealer and customer orders delays.
Bringing out a convertible will help with some sales of course but, it will not change the atmosphere that this car has been enveloped with in the last few years. I truly believe the 2 year hyiata caused a huge problem in the case of expectations. If the car would have just evolved into what it is today without the 2 year gap, it would have been fine. The 2 year secret and the hype leading up to the launch left everyone with high hopes and expectations beyond what was reality. Making a mountain out of a mole hill was SRT's big mistake. Keeping the car such a secret and adding so much hype to it backfired IMO.
Sending a Mule to win a horse race (motortrend comparison with the ZR1) and then making excuses about tires and tuning or whatever, was sad. marketing the car in that way and leaving dealers to make their own orders (not custom orders) and leaving the car vulnerable to predators with 640HP, caused a sink hole in sales. Whether coupe, convertible or ACR, the price and power output needs to be the focus at this point. The car will sell itself with those attributes. You wont need a dealer or magazine to make someone into a buyer when those two things are taken care of.
Lets not sit here and make excuses and assumptions. It is what it is. The car needs more power and better pricing. A very tall almost impossible feat at this point, but, it is what it is. If not, except the inevitable and take the grunt. The predator has been lamed and the prey is now on the hunt. Hold on and watch the terror or fix the wound and watch it defends itself.

[mnc2886]

NYIAS will tell all I think...

[canadian viper]

NYIAS will tell all I think...

yep......

[Newport Viper]

It's hard for me to get excited, as I haven't seen any real numbers from a COMPLETELY STOCK car at the drag strip or dyno to justify the cost. What happened to the racers? Where are the STOCK 10 second passes? Where is the guy that says I got 2 seconds more out of my TA then my ACR!? I could swear years ago people actually ran the cars instead of running a keyboard. There was always 5-8 owners that would post up numbers so we could really get a baseline. (It hasn't been snowing everywhere for the last 9 months.)

Where's the excitement!?

Remember these days? http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/2009/03

^^^That's what sells!!

Everyone says the car drives great that owns it. Great. Well... they have to! Well... for that money it's supposed to! So What.

Where are the numbers that make a fella DREAM to own one??? :United_States:

[Coloviper]

Viper was given just enough budget to survive and that was it. Not much you can do there if you have to spend it all on traction, stability and newer regs/emissions compliance. They did with it what they could, period! Remember it was on the auction block prior and required "covert black ops" internal procedures to even produce the foam full body model.

The dealer unveil of foam prototype was unanimous support and at VOI11, it was pretty much unanimous positive appeal for the car. The only thing that was not expected was the two models and big price jump over previous years. Well many probably felt it needed another 100 HP increase to 700 HP and I believe had SRT the budget, they would have given it to us. However at the VOI11 unveil, other than some small things, I truly felt SRT had nailed it. Pure Sex on wheels. Again, I remember when the pricing came out and that was it for me, I was immediately priced out of the market. For some, who could afford it, no problem, for the "paper boy route, do it on my own" types like me, it was just too much especially since I wanted an GTS. It corrected a lot of the problems I had with my prior 2006 SRT-10 Coupe, which I spent a lot of money to address.

Excuses or no excuses. The new GEN V car is miles ahead on fit finish and quality compared to older GENs. It is the best Viper yet. Just look at the new owners rack up the miles. That never really happened on previous models other than an oddity here or there.

A Convertible will help sales tremendously. Whether it was a vert only year or in combo with a coupe, the Viper verts sell in vastly larger numbers than the coupes. Always have. Way too many people out there could care less about ring times, race times, etc. They care about 0-60, 1/4 mile and braking times only but more importantly how does the car look and how does it make me feel. New Base Vette is not Viper performance but sells a ton, why? Because those owners only have significant sub $100K money to spend and don't care about races, etc. It is just looks for them and how that Vette makes them feel. Convertible guys are convertible guys for any car.

Can say botched this or that however there is no denying a convertible will help sales a lot, if they get the styling right. An ACR will help the few track rats interested in that model BUT will not help the mass of production figures the Viper needs to come close to initial targets.

Boys and girls, Ferrari (FIAT) owns us. It is more needed for company halo than the Viper. If you want to show everyone in your company what the company can do internally, it is not the Viper, it is the LaFerrari. Technology and pushing the envelop of design, mpg, electric, etc., etc. The Viper stands for none of that. The Viper is a blunt instrument, very, very effective and deadly in the hands of someone that knows how to use it. Problem is the world is pussified, all of it, these days.

Bring the price down, address the dealer network, get Fiat to allow ANY kind of a marketing budget for the car and if it quits snowing, it will eat at that inventory. Change styling of front, add a bit of power, put exhaust in the back (where it should have been) and move on from GEN V to a GEN VI ASAP.

The only true way to recover now is to move to a GEN VI quickly. Doesn't have to be ground breaking change as GEN III to GEN IV was not radical, except for HP changes, a new hood, rims, tranny, and colors. Doable but Ferrari needs to get off out back. Yah, I know, it is not Ferrari holding us back, but we are all smart guys. We know SRT would listen to us and provide it. They did not so who is to blame? Pretty simple to figure out! If they could have, they would have given us all of it. There is more here than meets the eye.

[VENOM V]

It's hard for me to get excited, as I haven't seen any real numbers from a COMPLETELY STOCK car at the drag strip or dyno to justify the cost. What happened to the racers? Where are the STOCK 10 second passes? Where is the guy that says I got 2 seconds more out of my TA then my ACR!? I could swear years ago people actually ran the cars instead of running a keyboard. There was always 5-8 owners that would post up numbers so we could really get a baseline. (It hasn't been snowing everywhere for the last 9 months.)

Where's the excitement!?

Remember these days? http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/2009/03

^^^That's what sells!!

Everyone says the car drives great that owns it. Great. Well... they have to! Well... for that money it's supposed to! So What.

Where are the numbers that make a fella DREAM to own one??? :United_States:

Look at my signature, there are the numbers. It's a track car, that's it's main mission. I don't think I've driven against a stock car of any make that could compete with my Viper on the road course. That includes Ferraris including a 458 Challenge on slicks, Porshes, Lambos, McClarens, Corvettes, a Saleen S7, or anyone else. The Gen V Viper is fast at the road course, ask anyone that's tracked it. I have a long-time track rat friend that beat me in a 458 at Buttonwillow, but that was with extremely cold temperatures and my Sport Cups don't like to grip in the 30's and 40's. On a warm day, it would have been a good race. Listen to Ralph and team, drag racing is not this car's focus. I realize it is for some owners and that's legitimate, but they hit a bulls eye on the target they aimed for. Road course dominance. There's the excitement.

[Newport Viper]

Look at my signature, there are the numbers. It's a track car, that's it's main mission. I don't think I've driven against a stock car of any make that could compete with my Viper on the road course. That includes Ferraris including a 458 Challenge on slicks, Porshes, Lambos, McClarens, Corvettes, a Saleen S7, or anyone else. The Gen V Viper is fast at the road course, ask anyone that's tracked it. I have a long-time track rat friend that beat me in a 458 at Buttonwillow, but that was with extremely cold temperatures and my Sport Cups don't like to grip in the 30's and 40's. On a warm day, it would have been a good race. Listen to Ralph and team, drag racing is not this car's focus. I realize it is for some owners and that's legitimate, but they hit a bulls eye on the target they aimed for.

Thank you! This is what needs to be touted!

[VENOM V]

Thank you! This is what needs to be touted!

We all fall on hard times on occasion, let's hope SRT rebounds through this rough patch. There's hope for this awesome machine! Speaking of which, let's hope for some exciting news at NYIAS.

[Viper Girl]

It's hard for me to get excited, as I haven't seen any real numbers from a COMPLETELY STOCK car at the drag strip or dyno to justify the cost. What happened to the racers? Where are the STOCK 10 second passes? Where is the guy that says I got 2 seconds more out of my TA then my ACR!? I could swear years ago people actually ran the cars instead of running a keyboard. There was always 5-8 owners that would post up numbers so we could really get a baseline. (It hasn't been snowing everywhere for the last 9 months.)

Where's the excitement!?

Remember these days? http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/2009/03

^^^That's what sells!!

Everyone says the car drives great that owns it. Great. Well... they have to! Well... for that money it's supposed to! So What.

Where are the numbers that make a fella DREAM to own one??? :United_States:

Hey Trouble... not everyone has the fantastic weather we have here in Cali either... LOL

Lots of cars were delivered over the winter and have been sitting in garages... I think as spring is here, weather is warming up... we'll see some times posted:trike:

[Newport Viper]

Hey Trouble... :dude3: I think as spring is here, weather is warming up... we'll see some times posted:trike:

I hope so... Because so far it's just keyboard smoke and no tire smoke..... :drive:

Duck ... it's an omelet!

http://www.joeychiurestaurant.com/2009photos/SundayBrunchBaltimoreMaryland.JPG

[Viper Girl]

:drive:

Duck ... it's an omelette!

http://www.joeychiurestaurant.com/2009photos/SundayBrunchBaltimoreMaryland.JPG

Fixed it for ya yo...

[Newport Viper]

Urban dictionary LOL ^^

[Viktimize]

I didn't read the whole thread. But I was wondering just the other night why there hasn't been more marketing done on the new Viper? Seriously, who really know this thing exists? I only know because I am total gear head and was already a Viper fan on top of that. I have not saw a single commercial or anything for this car anywhere to date.

What got me thinking about it was that I just watched the movie Need For Speed the other night. That pile of junk GT500 Rustang has been the lead car in 3 different movies lately. The Corvette made an appearance in Transformers, as well as hosted lots of commercials on TV for it. Chrysler has not given the Viper a face in the general public at all yet. How can people be expected to buy it when they don't know it exists, and they won't see one in their average dealer? The only people buying the Gen5 are previous Viper owners/fans who kept up on the release of the new model. People don't have a choice but to know about the Vette, because it's in your face everywhere you turn, so of course it is selling like hotcakes.

[Leslie]

I didn't read the whole thread. But I was wondering just the other night why there hasn't been more marketing done on the new Viper? Seriously, who really know this thing exists? I only know because I am total gear head and was already a Viper fan on top of that. I have not saw a single commercial or anything for this car anywhere to date.

What got me thinking about it was that I just watched the movie Need For Speed the other night. That pile of junk GT500 Rustang has been the lead car in 3 different movies lately. The Corvette made an appearance in Transformers, as well as hosted lots of commercials on TV for it. Chrysler has not given the Viper a face in the general public at all yet. How can people be expected to buy it when they don't know it exists, and they won't see one in their average dealer? The only people buying the Gen5 are previous Viper owners/fans who kept up on the release of the new model. People don't have a choice but to know about the Vette, because it's in your face everywhere you turn, so of course it is selling like hotcakes.

I am thinking the same thing! Not sure what the cooking posts are about with this topic.

I hope this doesn't deter people from attending the Detroit trip. :(

[Matt M, Pa]

Whether it was a vert only year or in combo with a coupe, the Viper verts sell in vastly larger numbers than the coupes. Always have.

At least in my years of interest...1996-2002...this is NOT true.

http://theviperregistry.org/build.php

[Brian GTS]

Look at my signature, there are the numbers. It's a track car, that's it's main mission. I don't think I've driven against a stock car of any make that could compete with my Viper on the road course. That includes Ferraris including a 458 Challenge on slicks, Porshes, Lambos, McClarens, Corvettes, a Saleen S7, or anyone else. The Gen V Viper is fast at the road course, ask anyone that's tracked it. I have a long-time track rat friend that beat me in a 458 at Buttonwillow, but that was with extremely cold temperatures and my Sport Cups don't like to grip in the 30's and 40's. On a warm day, it would have been a good race. Listen to Ralph and team, drag racing is not this car's focus. I realize it is for some owners and that's legitimate, but they hit a bulls eye on the target they aimed for. Road course dominance. There's the excitement.

Yep, yep, and yep! The only thing more horsepower is going to do is provide the ability to "brag". The track is where this car makes it's mark...and THAT has always been it's mission. SRT focused on MUCH more than just horsepower with this car, and it shows at the track.....and on the street. Sure, I don't agree with some of the unfortunate "mishaps" with the launch of the car, but I have a lot of respect for the well rounded machine SRT created.

[Shooter]

Look at my signature, there are the numbers. It's a track car, that's it's main mission. I don't think I've driven against a stock car of any make that could compete with my Viper on the road course. That includes Ferraris including a 458 Challenge on slicks, Porshes, Lambos, McClarens, Corvettes, a Saleen S7, or anyone else. The Gen V Viper is fast at the road course, ask anyone that's tracked it. I have a long-time track rat friend that beat me in a 458 at Buttonwillow, but that was with extremely cold temperatures and my Sport Cups don't like to grip in the 30's and 40's. On a warm day, it would have been a good race. Listen to Ralph and team, drag racing is not this car's focus. I realize it is for some owners and that's legitimate, but they hit a bulls eye on the target they aimed for. Road course dominance. There's the excitement.

When the "road course dominance" is faster then this. I'll start to be impressed. Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Buttonwillow, Calif. 1:55.70 <----Gen IV ACR.........
I would like to see what Kuno or Dom could do with a stock TA around this track vs the stock ACR's time.

[slitherv10]

If you guys think the track times is what will sell this car, then, you guys need to stop and think.

If anything, 0-60 and quarter times is what will make this car sell. That being said, put more HP into it and make it go straight, destroying anything beside it, and BINGO...its sold. The majority or people buying this car will drive it fast going straight, not twisting around neighborhood streets. For the few track nuts out there, SRT will go broke if they catered this car towards you guys. Give it 700+ HP and make it do what we all want it to do. Beat he guy next to us for a short while, not for a mile.

[Policy Limits]

My porridge is too hot....boo hoo. LOL

The car is all of that and a bag of chips. It's a street legal race car. But people want a PDK and a tampon holder...

[ViperSmith]

Funny that the same people saying the Viper needs 799HP and needs to go 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, that the Viper needs to attract more than just the track crowds are the same ones saying they need to crank out the ACR so they can sell more

The ACR is a track car. Lol.

[ViperSmith]

When the "road course dominance" is faster then this. I'll start to be impressed. Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Buttonwillow, Calif. 1:55.70 <----Gen IV ACR.........
I would like to see what Kuno or Dom could do with a stock TA around this track vs the stock ACR's time.

Todd is out there actually driving his car and using it as it should be and you want to talk about how pro drivers and do with the ACR?

Lol. you guys.

[Shooter]

If you guys think the track times is what will sell this car, then, you guys need to stop and think.

If anything, 0-60 and quarter times is what will make this car sell. That being said, put more HP into it and make it go straight, destroying anything beside it, and BINGO...its sold. The majority or people buying this car will drive it fast going straight, not twisting around neighborhood streets. For the few track nuts out there, SRT will go broke if they catered this car towards you guys. Give it 700+ HP and make it do what we all want it to do. Beat he guy next to us for a short while, not for a mile.

I personally think the car should have been marketed as a "Grand Touring" type of car. When/if they come out with an ACR, I'll be interested. Now, if I wanted to buy a fast car for long road trip's, the Gen V is top of my list. Tomball has a white/grey stripes I'd buy in a heartbeat as a Touring car. I was more posting the times to illustrate that the track times are really not that great for the added cost of the cars. There are some good deals out there now, and I hope the cars are all sold so they can make a bad ass ACR for me to buy next year.

[slitherv10]

Funny that the same people saying the Viper needs 799HP and needs to go 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, that the Viper needs to attract more than just the track crowds are the same ones saying they need to crank out the ACR so they can sell more

The ACR is a track car. Lol.

You think that most of the sales from the ACR were from people taking it to the track//...lol..you make me laugh. The ACR is a status quo Smith. Yes it is a street legal race car but, if the sales went strictly to those taking it to the track, it would have sold less than half. Its not the ACR that is going to make the sales and the car nuts come out of the wood works to buy this car. Its the numbers. The numbers will get everyone and anyone interested in owning the biggest and baddest back out to the dealerships asking for it as they did back when you were driving your Cadillac or Lexus.
lol...you need to start looking into the wide lense of the binoculars and start to see things a little more clearly. But, I don't blame you as it is your first barbeque.

[Shooter]

Todd is out there actually driving his car and using it as it should be and you want to talk about how pro drivers and do with the ACR?

Lol. you guys.

No, actually, he bought a Camaro, stuck some aero crap on it, and thinks it's fast. He's doing times a stock Gen 2 does.
You will notice I said compare Kuno or Dom's time's between the two cars right?.

Don't be upset at us multiple Viper owners, just because you over payed for a car that took forever to be delivered, and was slower then the 4 year old outgoing competitor in it's 1st head to head.
You jumped on the Viper bandwagon what, like 2 years ago or something and now your the expert right?. lol

Now the Gen V is a great car, just not the upgrade vs cost most of us prior Viper owners were hoping for.

[slitherv10]

Funny that the same people saying the Viper needs 799HP and needs to go 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, that the Viper needs to attract more than just the track crowds are the same ones saying they need to crank out the ACR so they can sell more

The ACR is a track car. Lol.

Funny how your the one a few months back that was saying how its all in our minds and its all as you say only to have been shown that the car has not sold as SRT, the dealers, the critics or any one else who had some common sense would have seen it coming. I have been saying that all long only to have you tell me how wrong I am and how it was still early in the game to tell the sales numbers. Well, welcome to reality.
Sit back, listen, and only say things that are under your level of expertise.
A 300 HP car would have sufficed your need for speed as it had in the past. For most here that have been around sports car and the Viper for all their lives, the power the glory. That is what it is about. Something that I could sit here all day and night and try to explain to you and you still wouldn't get it. Time Smith...time will fill you in with what it all means. Soak it all in.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Funny how your the one a few months back that was saying how its all in our minds and its all as you say only to have been shown that the car has not sold as SRT, the dealers, the critics or any one else who had some common sense would have seen it coming. I have been saying that all long only to have you tell me how wrong I am and how it was still early in the game to tell the sales numbers. Well, welcome to reality.
Sit back, listen, and only say things that are under your level of expertise.
A 300 HP car would have sufficed your need for speed as it had in the past. For most here that have been around sports car and the Viper for all their lives, the power the glory. That is what it is about. Something that I could sit here all day and night and try to explain to you and you still wouldn't get it. Time Smith...time will fill you in with what it all means. Soak it all in.

agree 100%

[SWEEN]

I personally think the car should have been marketed as a "Grand Touring" type of car.

Ralph has said numerous times that it is a "Grand Touring" but yes fits as a grand tourer and could of been marketed that way. Reason why it wont sell even if its marketed that way though? People that buy grand tourers do NOT want a manual transmission! People that buy grand tourers want a smooth ride, DCT, an all aluminum frame, a smaller engine that has more hp per liter etc. You could do all those things, raise the price and it will sell because people that buy grand tourers aren't worried about a 200K dollar price tag. Unfortunately that wouldn't be a true Viper, but it would sell.

I really like the Gen V but if they want the Viper to sell it needs to stop having an identity crisis. This odd combination of a high quality interior with brute force is not attracting enough customers. Correct me if I'm wrong but do viper guys even care if the gauges are computerized? Of course they don't! Viper guys want a N/A V10, manual transmission, bragging rights all for a bargain.

You (as in anyone reading my post) might think but Sween the Gen 4 didn't sell well and that had a "N/A V10, Manual Transmission, and bragging rights all for a bargain". I think the Gen 4 looks awesome and sinister, but alot of people felt it was outdated by 2010. The interior had the same CD player out of a Dodge Caravan (not a 2010 Caravan the one before that!). The interior doesn't need 10,000 dollar leather, just needs to look cool. Doesn't need a big nav or even computerized gauges (even though the red stryker is awesome!). You want the viper to sell in 2015, give it a facelift, bump hp and give an ACR option with carbon ceramic brakes, sticker tires and AERO. Make the base model stripped down under 100K. If feasible, make the frame all aluminum. Stop offering SRT & GTS, make it only coupe, Vert and ACR. Stop offering so many options, the buyer is confused. The Special Editions end up being more common than the regular editions. I remember Ralph in an interview said that the Viper is a "Show Car". The viper isn't a "Show Car" its a hand built american supercar and it should be marketed that way. My 2 cents on the subject.

[Photog1]

Hopefully production ceases and values soar Ford GT style!

Everyone should be happy with that!....and yet,....I suspect there'd still be complainers. Ha.

Terrible thought! If you want an investment buy apple stock. Keep building the Viper forever!

[ViperSmith]

You think that most of the sales from the ACR were from people taking it to the track//...lol..you make me laugh. The ACR is a status quo Smith. Yes it is a street legal race car but, if the sales went strictly to those taking it to the track, it would have sold less than half. Its not the ACR that is going to make the sales and the car nuts come out of the wood works to buy this car. Its the numbers. The numbers will get everyone and anyone interested in owning the biggest and baddest back out to the dealerships asking for it as they did back when you were driving your Cadillac or Lexus.
lol...you need to start looking into the wide lense of the binoculars and start to see things a little more clearly. But, I don't blame you as it is your first barbeque.

The point soared right over your head

[VRYALT3R3D]

When the "road course dominance" is faster then this. I'll start to be impressed. Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Buttonwillow, Calif. 1:55.70 <----Gen IV ACR.........
I would like to see what Kuno or Dom could do with a stock TA around this track vs the stock ACR's time.

Did you ever go to Buttonwillow before?

[Coloviper]

Why the hell are you guys jumping on a VOA member who did support the cause with a new Gen V purchase. Personally THAT is part of the problem here. You have your ACR, good for you. A lot of owners did not like the "shopping cart" look with that ridiculous wing and those ghetto black rims. To each their own though. They made a Viper for everyone. You don't like the Gen V, we get it. Knocking anyone who bought it, F$&kin ridiculous!

What a fractured crowd this truly has become. I like all Gens (some much more than others) but some of you guys are completely out of line. It's embarrassing for our Viper community.

[ViperSmith]

No, actually, he bought a Camaro, stuck some aero crap on it, and thinks it's fast. He's doing times a stock Gen 2 does.
You will notice I said compare Kuno or Dom's time's between the two cars right?.

Don't be upset at us multiple Viper owners, just because you over payed for a car that took forever to be delivered, and was slower then the 4 year old outgoing competitor in it's 1st head to head.
You jumped on the Viper bandwagon what, like 2 years ago or something and now your the expert right?. lol

Now the Gen V is a great car, just not the upgrade vs cost most of us prior Viper owners were hoping for.

He tracks his Viper, so I don't think you actually read what he wrote.

But thanks for the warm welcome. Amazing how negative and hateful some of you are towards guys new to Vipers.

Amusing how many people who maybe have driven between none to 10 miles in the Gen V are experts on how terrible it is. I guess par for the course for bench racing.

[ViperSmith]

Why the hell are you guys jumping on a VOA member who did support the cause with a new Gen V purchase. Personally THAT is part of the problem here. You have your ACR, good for you. A lot of owners did not like the "shopping cart" look with that ridiculous wing and those ghetto black rims. To each their own though. They made a Viper for everyone. You don't like the Gen V, we get it. Knocking anyone who bought it, F$&kin ridiculous!

What a fractured crowd this truly has become. I like all Gens (some much more than others) but some of you guys are completely out of line. It's embarrassing for our Viper community.

Well, this Gen V forum started useful. But the same thing that happened with the VCA site is happening here.

Hysterical that guys who actually bought the car are being mocked in the forum for buying the car.

Useless.

[Shooter]

Did you ever go to Buttonwillow before?

Yep. Didn't have an ACR then though. Really great track.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Yep. Didn't have an ACR then though. Really great track.

Did you time yourself on the track?

[Shooter]

Well, this Gen V forum started useful. But the same thing that happened with the VCA site is happening here.

Hysterical that guys who actually bought the car are being mocked in the forum for buying the car.

Useless.

Actually, it's just the manner in which you answer the post's. Both here and the one's I remember from the other site. You never owned a Viper before, yet you belittle any of us prior gen owners when we bring up facts that you don't like about the Gen V. You like to tell us in a definitive manner what the "Viper experience" is, yet you are still learning it yourself. And yes, just like slither said, the Viper is about "in your face HP" and outrageous looks and handling compared to the other cars out there. It's been a big middle finger to the Corvette's and other makes that couldn't touch it in performance for a long time. Now, unless something changes, it's just another $100,000 car in an already crowded class of cars.

[slitherv10]

Why the hell are you guys jumping on a VOA member who did support the cause with a new Gen V purchase. Personally THAT is part of the problem here. You have your ACR, good for you. A lot of owners did not like the "shopping cart" look with that ridiculous wing and those ghetto black rims. To each their own though. They made a Viper for everyone. You don't like the Gen V, we get it. Knocking anyone who bought it, F$&kin ridiculous!

What a fractured crowd this truly has become. I like all Gens (some much more than others) but some of you guys are completely out of line. It's embarrassing for our Viper community.

Its called aerodynamics. It makes downforce for cars that need to go around corners really fast without slipping. Its really is not a shopping cart. Really.
Just thought may have needed clarification.

Oh ya, you state " don't knock someone who buys a Gen V yet just one sentence later your knocking the Gen IV ACR owner. Oh well...as you say...to each their own.
Next time I go shopping I'll turn through those aisles a lot quicker with those ACR shopping carts they supply us with.

[Shooter]

Did you time yourself on the track?

I was doing high threat/ Vip security driver training, but I'll look for my times when we had a morning to play. They gave us 2 hrs one morning to mess around. I think I did 2:02 or something in a rental C5 z06. I'll have to find it. Was a pretty fun track. Especially on the Governments dime.

[Viper Girl]

Ok Guys, Lets get this thread back on topic... It's getting a little too personal in this thread.

[Viper Girl]

Why the hell are you guys jumping on a VOA member who did support the cause with a new Gen V purchase. Personally THAT is part of the problem here. You have your ACR, good for you. A lot of owners did not like the "shopping cart" look with that ridiculous wing and those ghetto black rims. To each their own though. They made a Viper for everyone. You don't like the Gen V, we get it. Knocking anyone who bought it, F$&kin ridiculous!

What a fractured crowd this truly has become. I like all Gens (some much more than others) but some of you guys are completely out of line. It's embarrassing for our Viper community.
^^^^^ couldn't say it better so I am repeating this post...

[Shooter]

Ralph has said numerous times that it is a "Grand Touring" but yes fits as a grand tourer and could of been marketed that way. Reason why it wont sell even if its marketed that way though? People that buy grand tourers do NOT want a manual transmission! People that buy grand tourers want a smooth ride, DCT, an all aluminum frame, a smaller engine that has more hp per liter etc. You could do all those things, raise the price and it will sell because people that buy grand tourers aren't worried about a 200K dollar price tag. Unfortunately that wouldn't be a true Viper, but it would sell.
.

I hate to agree about the auto transmission, but I think your right. And in this day and age of lightning fast shifting automatic's, it makes sense. A lot of people that would otherwise pass on a Viper could be swayed with the option of an automatic. Then, SRT could build the kickass ACR that some of us want. :)

[KRATEDISEASE]

I had a feeling the lack of an auto would sink this Viper.

$100k for 1990's technology just does not cut it for people who are not enthusiasts or Viper loyal

If the car had 750hp then the auto would not be necessary. But at current levels the stick just kills sales.

[VRYALT3R3D]

I had a feeling the lack of an auto would sink this Viper.

$100k for 1990's technology just does not cut it for people who are not enthusiasts or Viper loyal

If the car had 750hp then the auto would not be necessary. But at current levels the stick just kills sales.

Funny how Ford has no issue selling a $75k GT500 that is only available in manual.

All of the reviews about the Gen V rave about the manual transmission.The Gen V wont be getting an auto or a DCT.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Funny how Ford has no issue selling a $75k GT500 that is only available in manual.

All of the reviews about the Gen V rave about the manual transmission.The Gen V wont be getting an auto or a DCT.

Then stick a fork in the Viper !!

662 hp for $75k ? And 200mph top speed ? Sounds like a sales success story to me. ( GT500)

[05Commemorative]

If you guys think the track times is what will sell this car, then, you guys need to stop and think.

If anything, 0-60 and quarter times is what will make this car sell. That being said, put more HP into it and make it go straight, destroying anything beside it, and BINGO...its sold. The majority or people buying this car will drive it fast going straight, not twisting around neighborhood streets. For the few track nuts out there, SRT will go broke if they catered this car towards you guys. Give it 700+ HP and make it do what we all want it to do. Beat he guy next to us for a short while, not for a mile.
Isn't this what a mustang or Camaro is for? Seems to be in the price range people want as well. Sound like a muscle car argument from the 60's.

[VENOM V]

When the "road course dominance" is faster then this. I'll start to be impressed. Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Buttonwillow, Calif. 1:55.70 <----Gen IV ACR.........
I would like to see what Kuno or Dom could do with a stock TA around this track vs the stock ACR's time.

Well prepare to be impressed. You want to compare what the pros can do, rather than a normal Joe like me? 100% stock Gen V TA beats Gen IV ACR at Laguna Seca, 1:33.62 Vs. 1:33.92. And the TA had a fraction of the aero that the Gen IV had. I've heard different numbers, but it's in the neighborhood of 268 pounds for the TA at 150 MPH, and 1,000 pounds for the Gen IV ACR. How about tires? The TA has Corsas, which are basically R-compound rain tires. The Gen IV has Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, which Ralph says are about 2.5 seconds faster per lap than the Corsas.

The Viper owns the record at nearly all of the tracks here in California, mostly by the Gen IV ACR. And the TA beat it, with a fraction of the aero and on inferior tires.

[VENOM V]

My porridge is too hot....boo hoo. LOL

The car is all of that and a bag of chips. It's a street legal race car. But people want a PDK and a tampon holder...

Haha! Thanks for adding some comic relief to this thread, Rick.

[05Commemorative]

Then stick a fork in the Viper !!

662 hp for $75k ? And 200mph top speed ? Sounds like a sales success story to me. ( GT500)

I always struggle with this comparison. If all you wanted was a high HP # and a 75k price tag, you have options (Camaro and mustang). But why would a person that wants this think they were even in the market for a new viper? apples and oranges. Even in the Poser world (which I equate with the guy that brags how much HP he has), you are posing to a different audience with your mustang vs a Viper. Just don't get the comparison on any front. Cheap pony car vs Viper. Either step-up with the extra $$ and get a machine you will want for years or get a pony car that is cheap looking/feeling from virtually every position.

[VENOM V]

I was doing high threat/ Vip security driver training, but I'll look for my times when we had a morning to play. They gave us 2 hrs one morning to mess around. I think I did 2:02 or something in a rental C5 z06. I'll have to find it. Was a pretty fun track. Especially on the Governments dime.

Hey, a professional driver that tied my heavy Camaro (before the wing!) and was beat by my Viper my first time at Buttonwillow, in the dead of a winter cold spell. Congrats on that wicked fast lap time. Now I see why you are so confident.

[Shooter]

Hey, a professional driver that tied my heavy Camaro (before the wing!) and was beat by my Viper my first time at Buttonwillow, in the dead of a winter cold spell. Congrats on that wicked fast lap time. Now I see why you are so confident.

Ya, I think it was the 3rd of the 4 laps I got in the rental car, but you go girl. lol

Anyways, peanut gallery aside, I hope the downtime at CAAP will result in something that helps sell the rest of the cars.

[VENOM V]

Ya, I think it was the 3rd of the 4 laps I got in the rental car, but you go girl. lol

Oh really? But you said they gave you 2 hours to mess around…


They gave us 2 hrs one morning to mess around. I think I did 2:02 or something in a rental C5 z06. I'll have to find it.

Those must have been slow laps, LOL. Yes, go find your timeslips and report back.

[Leslie]

^^^^^ couldn't say it better so I am repeating this post...


uhhhh...... wow

[Shooter]

Oh really? But you said they gave you 2 hours to mess around…



Those must have been slow laps, LOL. Yes, go find your timeslips and report back.

Twice now, I've answered your questions. I've also posted something relative to the thread and attempted to bring it back on topic. If you'd like to continue pushing your incredibly lousy track times.....times I was within about 0.4 seconds of while messing around with a clapped out rental car and mostly just trying to make the other guys on my team laugh...lets continue in a different thread.

And I'm not a professional driver, hence my screen name being Shooter...

So what say we keep it on topic ya?

[VENOM V]

Twice now, I've answered your questions. I've also posted something relative to the thread and attempted to bring it back on topic. If you'd like to continue pushing your incredibly lousy track times.....times I was within about 0.4 seconds of while messing around with a clapped out rental car and mostly just trying to make the other guys on my team laugh...lets continue in a different thread.

And I'm not a professional driver, hence my screen name being Shooter...

So what say we keep it on topic ya?

You dragged this thread into the mud, not me.

[Mamba52]

Well prepare to be impressed. You want to compare what the pros can do, rather than a normal Joe like me? 100% stock Gen V TA beats Gen IV ACR at Laguna Seca, 1:33.62 Vs. 1:33.92. And the TA had a fraction of the aero that the Gen IV had. I've heard different numbers, but it's in the neighborhood of 268 pounds for the TA at 150 MPH, and 1,000 pounds for the Gen IV ACR. How about tires? The TA has Corsas, which are basically R-compound rain tires. The Gen IV has Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, which Ralph says are about 2.5 seconds faster per lap than the Corsas.

The Viper owns the record at nearly all of the tracks here in California, mostly by the Gen IV ACR. And the TA beat it, with a fraction of the aero and on inferior tires.

The problem is everyone knows the new kid on the block will be here soon to smash the Vipers records and it has a 8 speed auto with a removable roof and aluminum frame CCB or steel brakes all American and a price tag of $75k to $90k.

[plumcrazy]

the IGNORE feature works, some might want to try it sometime..... just sayin

[Mamba52]

the IGNORE feature works, some might want to try it sometime..... just sayin

Why would you want to IGNORE me? I own a Viper and this tread is about why the plant is closing right? Well I'm trying to give my input. Hope to see all the SRTs at Road Atlanta and the Tail this year. I'm out.

[KRATEDISEASE]

I always struggle with this comparison. If all you wanted was a high HP # and a 75k price tag, you have options (Camaro and mustang). But why would a person that wants this think they were even in the market for a new viper? apples and oranges. Even in the Poser world (which I equate with the guy that brags how much HP he has), you are posing to a different audience with your mustang vs a Viper. Just don't get the comparison on any front. Cheap pony car vs Viper. Either step-up with the extra $$ and get a machine you will want for years or get a pony car that is cheap looking/feeling from virtually every position.

The ONLY point is Not comparing demographics of buyers of two different segments, but instead comparing what a success the GT500 is compared to what a sales bomb the Viper turned out to be.

The GT500 sold 5000 copies last Year. The Viper is stopping production for now.

The Mustang GT500 sells for $75k to a demographic buyer who usually spends no more than $45k for a mustang and finds the corvette un affordable yet 5000 copies of the GT500 were sold last year.

The Viper sells for $100k starting to a demographic buyer who can spend $100k and yet only 590 were " sold" .......with half of those " sold" Vipers still in dealers ownership/ hands sitting on lots.

One is a success story. One is a sales bomb.

[Policy Limits]

Haha! Thanks for adding some comic relief to this thread, Rick.

:). I try :)

[Policy Limits]

Terrible thought! If you want an investment buy apple stock. Keep building the Viper forever!

What's so terrible about it? Most people hate the thing (ESP some viper owners). So kill it and bury it. Doesn't make everyone happy?

[ohlarikd]

Many have said this... the ORIGINAL Viper had outrageous looks and incredible horsepower when compared to most cars in that time period. It had 'wow factor' visual appeal and people could bench race the HP. When you said 400hp, people would just open their eyes wide and be in awe. These two factors alone made people lust after the car. It was just sitting on a stand at the auto show. No one knew track times, drag times, and no one cared - they wanted it.

The new Viper perhaps went the 'beautiful' route (remember the Halle Berry / beach comparisons). No fault there - sounded like a good idea at the time, no one complained about it. But perhaps it should have went to the 'outrageous' look again. Sure the Gen5 looks like the formerly 'outrageous' Gen1, but now that look is something we've seen before and does not generate the wow factor anymore. And Horsepower. 400 was crazy back then. 640 now is commonplace. That is why I think it needs 700+. Very few cars in the 700s, but a ton in the 600s. Much cheaper cars at that. I do realize that they had no budget for the engine (I read the book, understood).

My formula for success (based on nothing of course)... I say the car needs new bodywork, more HP. Chassis, interior, etc. etc. can stay the same. People need to be excited when they SEE the car and lust after it. That doesn't happen now.

Hopefully the car will live on, and more money is dedicated. Looks and Power. Always sells.

[plumcrazy]

or simply the possibility to tune it.

[VRYALT3R3D]

The ONLY point is Not comparing demographics of buyers of two different segments, but instead comparing what a success the GT500 is compared to what a sales bomb the Viper turned out to be.

The GT500 sold 5000 copies last Year. The Viper is stopping production for now.

The Mustang GT500 sells for $75k to a demographic buyer who usually spends no more than $45k for a mustang and finds the corvette un affordable yet 5000 copies of the GT500 were sold last year.

The Viper sells for $100k starting to a demographic buyer who can spend $100k and yet only 590 were " sold" .......with half of those " sold" Vipers still in dealers ownership/ hands sitting on lots.

One is a success story. One is a sales bomb.

I know people don't like the comparison between the GT500 and the Viper but they are missing the point. Ford did a lot better than SRT in marketing the GT500. Ford also made continuous performance upgrades to the GT500 to keep it relevant against the competition. Something SRT is very slow in doing -- just look at the Challenger SRT8.

The GT500 lasted 11 days days on the lot before it was purchased.

SRT needs a new ad campaign for the Viper and needs to invest deeply into advertising it or it will continue to sell slowly. And a horsepower boost...

http://www.torquenews.com/1084/2013-ford-shelby-gt500-flying-dealer-lots

[commandomatt]

^^^^^ couldn't say it better so I am repeating this post...


uhhhh...... wow

That's what I was thinking as well.

Here you have a moderator that tells people to quit bashing and then fully agrees with a post talking shit about how ridiculous the Gen IV is.

Then again, I don't think this moderator even owns a Viper, so go figure

[KRATEDISEASE]

No one that I am aware of has declined to buy a sports car because it had too much horsepower.

Horsepower sells.

And to those who say that the gen5 has enough horsepower as is and is a track monster, i say yes it is, but I DOUBT that it would be slower around the track set up as is with 750 horsepower !!!

[Leslie]

^^^^^ couldn't say

it better so I am repeating this post...


Ridiculous wing and ghetto black wheels?

Wow...I love my ACR, I think Ralph did too.

[HANKFAN]

I hope the lack of sales sends a strong message to SRT that you are simply not providing what a lot of customers want. You simply can't expect a huge demand for a $100,000+ performance car that does not have the ability to be modded and has virtually no aftermarket support. SRT gave us an awesome platform to build on with forged pistons and rods but no way to easily tune it. Maybe with this couple month shut down someone at SRT will finally see the light.

[plumcrazy]

if there is no aftermarket support for the car, the car better be seriously badass right out of the box

[FLATOUT]

Have to be able to tune them, period.

[Coloviper]

My point was, the Gen IV was the king for some, the Gen IV ACR was the top for others. That is fine, I am not knocking those cars for those people. You have your car and love it which is great. BUT understand not all Viper owners and potential Viper owners like that car or that look with a big wing and those black rims. Doesn't knock the effectiveness of that aero and I absolutely respect what it accomplished. I am well aware the positive effects of the wing, canards, lighter rims, etc. doesn't mean I have to like the look of a huge bolt on wing to the design. A new Gen which can accomplish the same without the big aero fits me much better, but that is just my opinion.

In the end, why just because you think your previous version is the best (it is to you and that is great) that some feel they should knock the new car and owners who paid to keep it all within our own brand and club. I don't get it.

Matt, we have seen eye to eye in early days when we both had Gen 3s and wanted to Supercharge/tune but if you have an issue with me, then PM me. Don't talk about me or my comments like you don't know me. My comments are my own, the ACR has already proven what it needed to do and did it. It doesn't need any more publicity. It's done.

Honestly, what is going on in this Viper community these days? We use to stick by one another, use to have mutual respect for neighboring Gens despite what we owned and liked. You guys want to kill this thing, you are contributing even more than the trolls in the old club. It is crazy!

[slitherv10]

I always struggle with this comparison. If all you wanted was a high HP # and a 75k price tag, you have options (Camaro and mustang). But why would a person that wants this think they were even in the market for a new viper? apples and oranges. Even in the Poser world (which I equate with the guy that brags how much HP he has), you are posing to a different audience with your mustang vs a Viper. Just don't get the comparison on any front. Cheap pony car vs Viper. Either step-up with the extra $$ and get a machine you will want for years or get a pony car that is cheap looking/feeling from virtually every position.


Well prepare to be impressed. You want to compare what the pros can do, rather than a normal Joe like me? 100% stock Gen V TA beats Gen IV ACR at Laguna Seca, 1:33.62 Vs. 1:33.92. And the TA had a fraction of the aero that the Gen IV had. I've heard different numbers, but it's in the neighborhood of 268 pounds for the TA at 150 MPH, and 1,000 pounds for the Gen IV ACR. How about tires? The TA has Corsas, which are basically R-compound rain tires. The Gen IV has Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, which Ralph says are about 2.5 seconds faster per lap than the Corsas.

The Viper owns the record at nearly all of the tracks here in California, mostly by the Gen IV ACR. And the TA beat it, with a fraction of the aero and on inferior tires.


Isn't this what a mustang or Camaro is for? Seems to be in the price range people want as well. Sound like a muscle car argument from the 60's.

All these great assumptions coming from you guys yet fact is........THE CAR IS NOT SELLING !! Its nice to see people trying to justify why the car doesn't need more HP and its doesn't need different styling and it doesn't need to go fast or whatever you guys are sitting here trying to tell us. Its hilarious how you guys sit here and try and convince yourselves of why this and why that when its smack right in front of you. Even Ralph, Chrysler and dealers are noting this and realizing the problem yet as most say and we all know, its a matter of govnt regulation and money that has kept the car from what it should have been. We all know the car never had a chance to become what it should have under those restrictions. To sit there and say that the car is exactly what it should have been and nothing more could be done and why should it have, is being very narrow minded and selfish. You love the car, we get it, we do too, we are just stating the obvious and that it should have head what was denied from it.
Get a Camaro or Mustang and that will fulfill the needs? lol...common, look at the big picture and what we are saying here. Its unfortunate you cant see the forest through the trees. It is what it is. except the fact and move on. The car came out with retro styling, 40 more HP with traction and stability control and you guys say its all that? With 5000 dineros in bolt on's the GenIV ACRs can keep up and more against the new car. To let go of a previous Gen Viper and 40-60K for what you get in the new car is a no brainer. That is why most that have had a Viper chose to keep it and those that opted to get a new one either have the extra dineros lying around or just never had a Gen 4 to realize the small difference. What the interior?...If your buying the new car because it gives you more luxury, and amenities over a Gen 4 then all the power to ya. Its about the performance that most opted to stay put with what they had or opted to not get one in the first place. Am I wrong?...Look at the sales and tell me different. What , its the dealers fault, common...if the car was all that and then some, they would be flying off the shelves no matter what. If the dealers saw that car was leaving the showrooms in droves, they would be more inclined to put more emphasis on getting more staff and more training into them to accommodate that. Selling 1-3 Vipers out of your showroom (and that is lucky if you did) is not a reason to pay for a viper tech and training when you may get one or two Vipers in a year to be serviced. Its not good business sense. The Tomballs and the rest of them service the way they do because the sell a lot and thus can afford to put more money and time into the service end of it to make it work.
You guys have to stop looking at in on a personal sense and look at it as Chrysler, SRT, and the dealers look at it. In a business sense.
They have said it once and they have said it a hundred times. They car would have been built differently had they had more control over funds and govnt regulation. That tells you something. Or hopefully for some of you it does, For the others, have fun with the car enjoy it and love it for what it is. The best Viper to date. But , not the best it could have been. You think SRT is going to say that in plain English. No, they have hinted to it but they are not going to sit there and say it like we do here. Of course not.

[Nine Ball]

I hope the lack of sales sends a strong message to SRT that you are simply not providing what a lot of customers want. You simply can't expect a huge demand for a $100,000+ performance car that does not have the ability to be modded and has virtually no aftermarket support. SRT gave us an awesome platform to build on with forged pistons and rods but no way to easily tune it. Maybe with this couple month shut down someone at SRT will finally see the light.

This.

SRT, start offering a tuning software package with 2 Bar map capability, watch the Vipers begin selling.

Also, any of you that are bashing other Viper OWNERS in a Viper club aren't helping this situation at all. Think of what a casual visitor to these forums would think, seeing the civil war going on between generational owners. It is stupid. Drop it, PLEASE.

[v10enomous]

They just need to rebadge it as the Ferrari ViperDino and they won't be able to build them fast enough.

[plumcrazy]

gen versus gen wars have been going on since day one. we now have 5 gens to argue about....thats a lot of arguing

[ViperSmith]

gen versus gen wars have been going on since day one. we now have 5 gens to argue about....thats a lot of arguing

There is a big difference of disliking the car and ripping personally on people that have bought one.

But it seems that is par for the course.

Not terribly hospitable and as Tony said - if I were doing research on the car (which most younger people do through the forums) - it would make me look past the brand.

[sambo32]

I am on my second GEN V, a 2013 and then traded in for a 2014. Comming from a 2009, I can say its a great improvement and you really need to see the car in person to appreciate it.

[Viper Girl]

Ridiculous wing and ghetto black wheels?

Wow...I love my ACR, I think Ralph did too.

Actually I was referring to the bulk of what Colo said... which was owners jumping on other owners... What Generation you showed up at an event used to be irrelevant. Everyone was a Viper owner, and there to enjoy Vipers.


Why the hell are you guys jumping on a VOA member who did support the cause with a new Gen V purchase. Personally THAT is part of the problem here. To each their own though. They made a Viper for everyone. You don't like the Gen V, we get it. Knocking anyone who bought it, F$&kin ridiculous!

What a fractured crowd this truly has become. I like all Gens (some much more than others) but some of you guys are completely out of line. It's embarrassing for our Viper community.

[Policy Limits]

Funny on Lambo forum old school guys in a Countach or Diablo at least can tolerate a Gallardo owner; and vice versa. Maserati Life is a place where everyone can share in complaints of unreliability. Guess every place has its own personality. But agree with Nine (who owns snakes from 2 different gens btw). Lets not be defined by a civil war.

The Gen I came out when I was in 10th grade and I've wanted to own a Viper for over 20 years since then. Each of the five generations is a VIPER. Want to see a 6th gen? Then change needs to occur not only with SRT, but with its consumers as well.

[mnc2886]

I really don't think sales are as bad as this thread is suggesting. They did sell almost 50 each month in January and February all while half the country is no better to drive in than Antarctica. I've followed Viper Exchange's inventory and it has consistently gotten smaller, especially the TA's. Hell, we even had a huge jump in new owner posts when the TA's started hitting dealer floors. I really don't think it's that bad and I bet everything occuring now is simply a re-tooling like they said. Wait for the NYIAS and then you'll know if the Viper still has a heart beat.

[ViperTony]

The Viper is selling but not selling well. That's a fact. If the Viper was selling well the plant wouldn't need to shutdown and there wouldn't be 800 units on the ground and 400 days supply. Nobody likes this news but it's what is for now.

I don't know what SRT needs to do in order to sell this inventory and increase demand for the current Viper. Dropping the prices and/or offering incentives on the current inventory may be one way to go.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Funny on Lambo forum old school guys in a Countach or Diablo at least can tolerate a Gallardo owner; and vice versa. Maserati Life is a place where everyone can share in complaints of unreliability. Guess every place has its own personality. But agree with Nine (who owns snakes from 2 different gens btw). Lets not be defined by a civil war.

The Gen I came out when I was in 10th grade and I've wanted to own a Viper for over 20 years since then. Each of the five generations is a VIPER. Want to see a 6th gen? Then change needs to occur not only with SRT, but with its consumers as well.

What is discussed on this and other forums is NOT why the car is not selling.

It is not the Viper that once was in the past.

It should have had 700 to 750 hp OR a dual clutch. Either one or the other.

Ability to tune is only advantageous to previous owners.

[RedTanRT/10]

There is a big difference of disliking the car and ripping personally on people that have bought one.

But it seems that is par for the course.

Not terribly hospitable and as Tony said - if I were doing research on the car (which most younger people do through the forums) - it would make me look past the brand.


Smith, nobody's getting "ripped on" for buying a Gen 5, the arguements tend to get personal when people want to debate.

There's been heated debates particualary when the Gen III's came out (vs. Gen II) and between Gen II and IV's due to computer issues. All these were heated and I'm sure some folks got their feelings hurt and/our extremely pissed off. Everyone's got an opinion plus on these boards, some like to bait others and get under their skin.

You and a couple of others get piled on because you are new to vipers and don't know or have experienced the brand history, and, come off to some that you think your smarter than others who have been around awhile. Here, on the alley or vca, longer time viper owners w/G5's don't get ripped on and their comments and insights are appreciated.

There's an old expression on these boards, read more, post less. Enjoy your viper Mike

[ViperSmith]

Saying what the car needs isn't going to clear out existing inventory. They aren't going to add DCT or another 100HP in the next three months either.

I think the drive events are helping. As soon as winter ends owners will write about the car more. I expect incentives as well. Opening up the PCM would do wonders as well.

[v10enomous]

I love the car and it's beautiful for what it is... The car looked 30 years retro in 1996 and now it's uber retro. To have mass appeal in today's super car culture it needs to have crisper lines and less overhang front an back and needs to look sleeker especially out back while still maintaining the key styling queues from the original car. I actually love the car the way it is but the car I have looks as good and sounds better and provides a more visceral experience so I'm not digging too deep just to get a newer version of basically the same car. All the negative press about the car being difficult to drive really hurt it too. While a lot of us appreciate a car that is challenging to drive at the limits and a car that looks like an iconic 60's racecar...most do not. Having said all of that it is still one of the only cars that makes my heart race just looking at it... but that's me and I can't justify the coin at the current prices.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o67/charlielanz2/ovh1_zps715fa1c0.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o67/charlielanz2/ovh2_zps0dbf98ac.jpg

[VRYALT3R3D]

What is discussed on this and other forums is NOT why the car is not selling.

It is not the Viper that once was in the past.

It should have had 700 to 750 hp OR a dual clutch. Either one or the other.

Ability to tune is only advantageous to previous owners.

I don't think you will see 700+ HP from the factory. At least not for 2015MY. SRT had a hell of a time even getting 640HP due to emissions standards. They can easily make a Viper have 700HP, getting it to be emissions compliant is another story. This is why they need to release the MOPAR PCM asap. SRT has it developed already.....

[ViperSmith]

Smith, nobody's getting "ripped on" for buying a Gen 5, the arguements tend to get personal when people want to debate.

There's been heated debates particualary when the Gen III's came out (vs. Gen II) and between Gen II and IV's due to computer issues. All these were heated and I'm sure some folks got their feelings hurt and/our extremely pissed off. Everyone's got an opinion plus on these boards, some like to bait others and get under their skin.

You and a couple of others get piled on because you are new to vipers and don't know or have experienced the brand history, and, come off to some that you think your smarter than others who have been around awhile. Here, on the alley or vca, longer time viper owners w/G5's don't get ripped on and their comments and insights are appreciated.

There's an old expression on these boards, read more, post less. Enjoy your viper Mike

Clearly you have failed to read this thread. And if you think I am the only one that feels this way, you are quite mistaken.

Sure, we can each have our own opinions about the vehicle. There are things I don't like about it myself. But there is a big difference between that and what goes on.

I am new to Vipers, but I am not new to the Gen V - which many claiming to be experts on have no experience with. Perhaps lacking experience with it should sit back and follow your own advice (and I claim to be no expert now or ever).

The biggest problem the car has it seems is people who have been with the brand for 20+ years want to put it into the box it was when the car debuted. Times have changed and so has the automotive landscape. To me the car is being marketed as a street trackable car. It seems SRT isn't articulating that message correctly, which has led to its detriment.

People seem to want to skip over the fact SRT had a limited budget and thing like DCT, 750+ HP, carbon fiber tub just weren't in the cards.

Instead of saying "SRT did a great job with what resources they had, lets get behind it even though it isn't perfect" we hear the same complaints for well over a year. (And getting behind it doesn't mean having to buy one). Was it a big enough upgrade for guys with Gen IV ACRs? For the most part no, though a few have upgraded.

If they had the budget the C7 had, I think we all can agree it would put the P1 to shame.

SRT failed to market it correctly right off the bat and it hasn't recovered, thats what it all boils down to. We all know why we want a Viper, but Ralph needs to do a better job at articulating why people need a Viper in 2014. The V has spoke to 800 or so people so far, clearly there are more people out there that it should. I've said all along, I don't think most people know the new car exists.

[ACRucrazy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8avWJIwyxY

Well this turned out to be an exciting thread.

[IndyRon]

Ridiculous wing and ghetto black wheels?

Wow...I love my ACR, I think Ralph did too.

I was offended at the comment until I saw the wheels in his avatar...don't sweat it. :)


Many have said this... the ORIGINAL Viper had outrageous looks and incredible horsepower when compared to most cars in that time period. It had 'wow factor' visual appeal and people could bench race the HP. When you said 400hp, people would just open their eyes wide and be in awe. These two factors alone made people lust after the car. It was just sitting on a stand at the auto show. No one knew track times, drag times, and no one cared - they wanted it.

The new Viper perhaps went the 'beautiful' route (remember the Halle Berry / beach comparisons). No fault there - sounded like a good idea at the time, no one complained about it. But perhaps it should have went to the 'outrageous' look again. Sure the Gen5 looks like the formerly 'outrageous' Gen1, but now that look is something we've seen before and does not generate the wow factor anymore. And Horsepower. 400 was crazy back then. 640 now is commonplace. That is why I think it needs 700+. Very few cars in the 700s, but a ton in the 600s. Much cheaper cars at that. I do realize that they had no budget for the engine (I read the book, understood).

My formula for success (based on nothing of course)... I say the car needs new bodywork, more HP. Chassis, interior, etc. etc. can stay the same. People need to be excited when they SEE the car and lust after it. That doesn't happen now.

Hopefully the car will live on, and more money is dedicated. Looks and Power. Always sells.

I agree with the entirety of this post.


The biggest problem the car has it seems is people who have been with the brand for 20+ years want to put it into the box it was when the car debuted. Times have changed and so has the automotive landscape. To me the car is being marketed as a street trackable car. It seems SRT isn't articulating that message correctly, which has led to its detriment.

Instead of saying "SRT did a great job with what resources they had, lets get behind it even though it isn't perfect" we hear the same complaints for well over a year. (And getting behind it doesn't mean having to buy one). Was it a big enough upgrade for guys with Gen IV ACRs? For the most part no, though a few have upgraded.

It's still just a car, not a family member...I only have brand loyalty because I love the platform characteristics and subsequently, the members. If (and when) it no longer offers the styling, looks, and performance, I'm on to another platform...I want the best....hence the reason I (and others like Shooter, slither, Nineball, Flatout, ACRUcrazy, and more) bring up what it "should" have been and still could be and we spend money we will never get back to make it even faster. Not because we want to be devisive, but because we are NOT pragmatists and don't swallow a spoonfull of crap and smile saying it tastes like pudding. We want to see the car dominate, not just exist...the car dominated for over 2 decades in all the facets of car ownership I value - performance, styling, and wow factor. We want that back. Maybe we will get it, maybe we wont. I hope that we will and the Viper flourishes and only grows in popularity and respect.

[VENMPWR]

With all this knowledge here you think we would have found that jet by now.

Everyone has their own opinion. Mine is, just enjoy the car and shut the hell up!

[Policy Limits]

Ha. Maybe it was aliens?

Question: is there a science to successor generations? Or are they introduced randomly after inconsistent times?

[VENMPWR]

3899

[ViperSmith]

I was offended at the comment until I saw the wheels in his avatar...don't sweat it. :)



I agree with the entirety of this post.



It's still just a car, not a family member...I only have brand loyalty because I love the platform characteristics and subsequently, the members. If (and when) it no longer offers the styling, looks, and performance, I'm on to another platform...I want the best....hence the reason I (and others like Shooter, slither, Nineball, Flatout, ACRUcrazy, and more) bring up what it "should" have been and still could be and we spend money we will never get back to make it even faster. Not because we want to be devisive, but because we are NOT pragmatists and don't swallow a spoonfull of crap and smile saying it tastes like pudding. We want to see the car dominate, not just exist...the car dominated for over 2 decades in all the facets of car ownership I value - performance, styling, and wow factor. We want that back. Maybe we will get it, maybe we wont. I hope that we will and the Viper flourishes and only grows in popularity and respect.

Wasn't really the point I was making. But to each their own.

[IndyRon]

Wasn't really the point I was making. But to each their own.

Ha!, Unlikely we will all ever fully understand each others perspectives of ownership. Just like Dem vs. Repub, we don't see the car the same way. Who cares, as long as we are enjoying it!

[Stealth]

Have to be able to tune them, period.

Tuning ability would be fine, but OEM power is what is needed and what is covered by warranty. No one wants to blow up their $120k+ car and have the warranty voided. It would be awesome if SRT could just provide a Dealer-installed tune to all Gen Vs--sold and to be sold--to bump hp to 680+ to set the Viper apart. I realize that with emissions and N/A motor this is likely not possible, but one can hope! This would help existing and future Gen V owners.

A DCT would also solve some problems vs. the competition, yielding better 0-60, 1/4 mi. times, etc. With the 991 TS ripping off 2.8 sec and 10.8 in the 1/4, the Viper looks slow. I am not a drag racer and I know the Viper is suited to the track, but DCT would really help. Ferrari and Maserati need to share a bit with SRT!

Hopefully, this Plant shutdown is just to allow existing inventory to sell and re-tool for a new model.

[plumcrazy]

If they want a quick fix to sell more vipers, let the tuning begin !!!

Not to mention a serious buzz on the streets and forums. Imagine all the genV youtube videos then.

[FLATOUT]

If they want a quick fix to sell more vipers, let the tuning begin !!!

Not to mention a serious buzz on the streets and forums. Imagine all the genV youtube videos then.

Yep there would be a bunch of Z06 guys jumping ship. Most would rather own a Viper (less of them & more exclusive) but they just can't get past the tuning issue.

[mikesax]

WOW-same complaints every time!! The Gen V is the ONLY car that "stirs" my soul-LUCKY ME!! It COULD be : a little faster-a little less retro- a little less expensive-easier to tune- a little more horsepower-a little ...!! Got to love the guy who is the: 4 th richest man in the world-6 th strongest as well-voted 3 rd most handsome- married to the woman voted 2 nd sexiest alive for 2014- and still finds the time to complain !!!!!!! Life is SHORT-if you like it -buy it-you will love it even more once you get it- type on the computer in the VOA forum how much fun it is to drive it as often as possible- post up cool pictures- go to bed at night and do it all again tomorrow-God willing!! TOO MUCH BELLY ACHING from the Gallery-I own 2-would get a 3 rd if I could-I LOVE LOVE LOVE this car!!!!! Peace out-have a nice day- happy motoring to all-drive safely yet with passion-we are all LUCKY enough to own one of the most AWESOME vehicles ever produced- let the people who read this forum know how AMAZING the Viper is to own and drive!! NOTHING IS PERFECT- but our Viper is damn close!!

[ohlarikd]

WOW-same complaints every time!! The Gen V is the ONLY car that "stirs" my soul-LUCKY ME!! It COULD be : a little faster-a little less retro- a little less expensive-easier to tune- a little more horsepower-a little ...!! Got to love the guy who is the: 4 th richest man in the world-6 th strongest as well-voted 3 rd most handsome- married to the woman voted 2 nd sexiest alive for 2014- and still finds the time to complain !!!!!!! Life is SHORT-if you like it -buy it-you will love it even more once you get it- type on the computer in the VOA forum how much fun it is to drive it as often as possible- post up cool pictures- go to bed at night and do it all again tomorrow-God willing!! TOO MUCH BELLY ACHING from the Gallery-I own 2-would get a 3 rd if I could-I LOVE LOVE LOVE this car!!!!! Peace out-have a nice day- happy motoring to all-drive safely yet with passion-we are all LUCKY enough to own one of the most AWESOME vehicles ever produced- let the people who read this forum know how AMAZING the Viper is to own and drive!! NOTHING IS PERFECT- but our Viper is damn close!!

I don't think anyone disagrees with you. However, the GenV doesn't stir many current owners souls any more than the Gen1-4 cars that many of us already own. Thus many seem to just keep what they have, not seeing a big enough reason to spend the extra money. Now if this is your first Viper, than sure, go for it! I think a slightly more radical design would have loosened a few owners up to splurge on some new visual appeal and excitement.

[ViperSmith]

I also do wonder if SRT sort of set itself up for failure with its target sales. The ZR1 only broke 1000 units its first two years (I think near 1500 each) and I think the averaged around 500 after that. As pointed out by someone else, the R8 sells a whole 800 a year.

So, perhaps it was all an issue of poor planning on their part for what could be sold. A sales strategy of 800 would have kept the car sales around demand. 1600 a year has proven to be a challenge.

[ohlarikd]

I also do wonder if SRT sort of set itself up for failure with its target sales. The ZR1 only broke 1000 units its first two years (I think near 1500 each) and I think the averaged around 500. As pointed out by someone else, the R8 sells a whole 800 a year.

So, perhaps it was all an issue of poor planning on their part for what could be sold. A sales strategy of 800 would have kept the car sales around demand. 1600 a year has proven to be a challenge.

I think there was business case to be made for 1600-2000 cars in order to get a green light. 800 a year would not have made a case and the car would not have been made. That is what I read anyhow. All easy to say in hindsight.

[FLATOUT]

I think there was business case to be made for 1600-2000 cars in order to get a green light. 800 a year would not have made a case and the car would not have been made. That is what I read anyhow. All easy to say in hindsight.

They only sold 2000 Vipers in 2005 & 2006 if that puts things in perspective.

[mikesax]

Mr . ohlarkid- as a Jersey man myself-Bergen County- I owned 2 Gen 4's -put about 50,000 miles on them combined over 3 years- and I never thought I would ever part with them!!
They "stirred" the soul daily-until I drove the Gen V-it's a large step up IMHO!! I love every Viper out there-ALL of them are unique and special-I just can't stand NEGATIVITY!! The Gen V is so worth it-to me!!

[plumcrazy]

There is a big difference of disliking the car and ripping personally on people that have bought one.

just to make things clear, personal takes are not allowed. disagreements are.

[Newport Viper]

I know SRT did it's best to make this a good "track car" but, thinking back 17 some years I have been around, I think a huge percentage of owners were drag/(street) racers.

I think they got left out and (tune and early 2013 not working at the drag issues) will seek other platforms. That put's a big hurt on sales.

Target market opportunity missed. (Launch control sounds like it stinks? for the 1/4)

[slitherv10]

We are all on the same page as far as I am concerned

Most owners new to sports cars and New to the Viper bought it for what it is, and most previous owners didn't for the same reason.

Great minds do think alike.

Now back to the OP. What is the update on why the closer...is it the Roadster that is causing the closer or?

[VRYALT3R3D]

Now back to the OP. What is the update on why the closer...is it the Roadster that is causing the closer or?

I doubt it. Way too early for the 2015MY. 2014MY started production in Oct. 2013 IIRC. If there was a roadster coming, wouldn't we have seen spy photos by now?

[V1PERMAN]

While I can't mention the source but I was told that the Viper breaks even at 400 cars per year and they would make decent money at 800 per year. If you think about it, the 2013 model wasn't even released one year ago.

[05Commemorative]

All these great assumptions coming from you guys yet fact is........THE CAR IS NOT SELLING !! Its nice to see people trying to justify why the car doesn't need more HP and its doesn't need different styling and it doesn't need to go fast or whatever you guys are sitting here trying to tell us. Its hilarious how you guys sit here and try and convince yourselves of why this and why that when its smack right in front of you. Even Ralph, Chrysler and dealers are noting this and realizing the problem yet as most say and we all know, its a matter of govnt regulation and money that has kept the car from what it should have been. We all know the car never had a chance to become what it should have under those restrictions. To sit there and say that the car is exactly what it should have been and nothing more could be done and why should it have, is being very narrow minded and selfish. You love the car, we get it, we do too, we are just stating the obvious and that it should have head what was denied from it.
Get a Camaro or Mustang and that will fulfill the needs? lol...common, look at the big picture and what we are saying here. Its unfortunate you cant see the forest through the trees. It is what it is. except the fact and move on. The car came out with retro styling, 40 more HP with traction and stability control and you guys say its all that? With 5000 dineros in bolt on's the GenIV ACRs can keep up and more against the new car. To let go of a previous Gen Viper and 40-60K for what you get in the new car is a no brainer. That is why most that have had a Viper chose to keep it and those that opted to get a new one either have the extra dineros lying around or just never had a Gen 4 to realize the small difference. What the interior?...If your buying the new car because it gives you more luxury, and amenities over a Gen 4 then all the power to ya. Its about the performance that most opted to stay put with what they had or opted to not get one in the first place. Am I wrong?...Look at the sales and tell me different. What , its the dealers fault, common...if the car was all that and then some, they would be flying off the shelves no matter what. If the dealers saw that car was leaving the showrooms in droves, they would be more inclined to put more emphasis on getting more staff and more training into them to accommodate that. Selling 1-3 Vipers out of your showroom (and that is lucky if you did) is not a reason to pay for a viper tech and training when you may get one or two Vipers in a year to be serviced. Its not good business sense. The Tomballs and the rest of them service the way they do because the sell a lot and thus can afford to put more money and time into the service end of it to make it work.
You guys have to stop looking at in on a personal sense and look at it as Chrysler, SRT, and the dealers look at it. In a business sense.
They have said it once and they have said it a hundred times. They car would have been built differently had they had more control over funds and govnt regulation. That tells you something. Or hopefully for some of you it does, For the others, have fun with the car enjoy it and love it for what it is. The best Viper to date. But , not the best it could have been. You think SRT is going to say that in plain English. No, they have hinted to it but they are not going to sit there and say it like we do here. Of course not.

I actually think you are missing the key point. If you want a 75k range car, go get one. If you don't believe the Viper is worth the money, don't buy it. but to assume some how the two are related is crazy. The success of a 75k car has no relation or bearing on Viper sells, Unless you felt it was the same market. Why not talk about how well the Tesla is selling as a comparison? Sell the Viper for 75k and they would all be gone and you would have a sales success, but at a loss because they aren't based upon a cheap pony car platform that sells to the masses with relatively speaking cheap add-ons. Most on these forums speak as though they are knowledgeable of the 100k+ segment, but I am not sure they are even in that segment. I get it, if you can't afford the car, I get it. If you want to get a mustang, then get it. But don't confuse yourself to even believe you were in the market for a new viper if you felt it was a viable option. Add 50hp, now are you in the market? I don't think so.

agreed, the car is not selling well. AGREED. Many REAL problems exist to cause that (dealer network, marketing, no auto, no conv), but I don't buy that HP is it. For the consumer, that is a great thing as deals exist. Not great for the manufacturer. Many reasons why and I agree. I am just saying the constant stance of if it had 700hp, then it would be selling like mad is crazy. No data to suggest that would be the case.

But, please go see one in person, test drive one, then report back what it is worth or not worth.

[slitherv10]

Not sure where I said I wanted a 75K car, and a Mustang or Camaro to boot. On that note though, if the Viper does not keep up with the pack as they start to roll forward in the near future, I think you will see my point at that time. Chevy, Porsche, and don't rule out Ford will soon stqrt to become the dictator. The position we have been in for most of the past years. If your ok with sitting back and watching, I am not. I am very passionate about the position of this car in regards to performance. Not its amenities. I am not happy with it rolling with the crowd as it is starting to do. Unless this car stands alone and leaves terror in the eyes of the prey, I will continue to fight for the attributes that I personally think will get it there. HP in regards to 0-60 and quarter times. Unlock that computer and watch how the competition watches in horror.

[I Bin Therbefor]

A couple of observations; According to BMW, there are only three countries who buy convertables, the US, UK and Germany. Not enough volume to sustain developing the platforms so Fiat and Nisian are codevelop and BMW and Toyota look like they're codeveloping platforms. As to auto trans, only the demand from the US seems to be moving some auto only sports car to consider a manual option. The C7Z07 seems to be makiing market waves with an auto option. Mixed power plant cars need autos. Lastly the retro market while very vocal isn't big enough to support anything except kit cars.

FWIS, the GenV is fantastic, needs an auto and deserved better car preparation before hand off to the auto press for review. The GTS and SRT needed a bit better differentation in appearenvce to fullfill their roles as GT and traditional somewhat raw cars.

[V10LEE]

A couple of observations; According to BMW, there are only three countries who buy convertables, the US, UK and Germany. Not enough volume to sustain developing the platforms so Fiat and Nisian are codevelop and BMW and Toyota look like they're codeveloping platforms. As to auto trans, only the demand from the US seems to be moving some auto only sports car to consider a manual option. The C7Z07 seems to be makiing market waves with an auto option. Mixed power plant cars need autos. Lastly the retro market while very vocal isn't big enough to support anything except kit cars.

FWIS, the GenV is fantastic, needs an auto and deserved better car preparation before hand off to the auto press for review. The GTS and SRT needed a bit better differentation in appearenvce to fullfill their roles as GT and traditional somewhat raw cars.

If the new 8 speed paddle shift auto in the new Z06 does indeed shift faster than Porsche PDK. Then the Viper is going to be in big trouble. A bump in hp for the Viper won't do anything .It will need a transmission that is just as capable. Manual shifting days are over..

[VENOM V]

If the new 8 speed paddle shift auto in the new Z06 does indeed shift faster than Porsche PDK. Then the Viper is going to be in big trouble. A bump in hp for the Viper won't do anything .It will need a transmission that is just as capable. Manual shifting days are over..

Agreed, I hope SRT has a plan for this. Ralph eluded to wanting one eventually.

[Lawrenzo]

So, what is the BIG news for the New York show? Any slips of the tongue would be appreciated from the insiders:very_drunk:

[HANKFAN]

Yep there would be a bunch of Z06 guys jumping ship. Most would rather own a Viper (less of them & more exclusive) but they just can't get past the tuning issue.

Couldn't agree more. I would have sold my Gen III coupe and upgraded to a Gen V last year if only I could tune it. I just can't see selling my current car and adding another 50-60K to get the Gen V when there is no way to tune it. Plus it's not encouraging that there is zero news from SRT if this is even going to be something that can be done in the future.

[KRATEDISEASE]

So, what is the BIG news for the New York show? Any slips of the tongue would be appreciated from the insiders:very_drunk:

Heck, I'm local here in the City..... I am going to crash that party ( NY AUTO SHOW) !!!...

...........only if my wife lets me go ( I better be nice to poopsy woopsy the next few weeks )

[ohlarikd]

Mr . ohlarkid- as a Jersey man myself-Bergen County- I owned 2 Gen 4's -put about 50,000 miles on them combined over 3 years- and I never thought I would ever part with them!!
They "stirred" the soul daily-until I drove the Gen V-it's a large step up IMHO!! I love every Viper out there-ALL of them are unique and special-I just can't stand NEGATIVITY!! The Gen V is so worth it-to me!!

'Jersey' means you are from here for sure! I am sure the GenV is awesome. When I saw it the first time though, I kinda shrugged my shoulders, ONLY because it looked so familiar. But if I had one, I wouldn't be complaining, that's for sure.

[Shooter]

If the new 8 speed paddle shift auto in the new Z06 does indeed shift faster than Porsche PDK. Then the Viper is going to be in big trouble. A bump in hp for the Viper won't do anything .It will need a transmission that is just as capable. Manual shifting days are over..

Yep. Too be honest though, unless that Vette is crazy fast on the track, and Ralph doesn't make us a new ACR, I'm tempted to p/u a used EMCO, and price a Motec system to allow the flat shifts. I just don't see myself not having a Viper. I like them too much.

[ViperSmith]

If the "Super Fast" auto in the C7Z can do this, I'll be impressed with it - comparing yourself to the PDK is a tall order


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5DRCTW-Q7o

But I agree. I'd kill for a Viper with DCT.

[Viktimize]

I really like the Gen V but if they want the Viper to sell it needs to stop having an identity crisis. This odd combination of a high quality interior with brute force is not attracting enough customers. Correct me if I'm wrong but do viper guys even care if the gauges are computerized? Of course they don't! Viper guys want a N/A V10, manual transmission, bragging rights all for a bargain.



From a marketing perspective I think that is terrible. Who cares what "Viper guys" want? Chrysler certainly shouldn't. Viper guys obviously don't buy cars, as can be seen by the low sales numbers in past. The whole idea of this refresh should be to attract new buyers to the Viper family. And the previous Viper owners that were looking for a bargain as you said, most likely can't afford to go sell their old Viper and upgrade to new. If they aren't sitting on enough disposable income that they need to be hunting for a deal, they will be waiting a few years till used Gen5's are on the market to get another bargain.

But who is to say what a "Viper Guy" even is? I'm a Viper guy myself, love the car. But I would have never considered upgrading past my old Gen3 if they didn't get the interior up to snuff with proper stereo and creature comforts. What would be the incentive to upgrade without that stuff? For much less money I can just slap a TT kit on my Gen3 and smoke the new Gen5 all day long. A "Viper Guy/gal" is not one set of rules, it encompases a lot of different people that like the car for their own reasons.

[Viktimize]

Actually I was referring to the bulk of what Colo said... which was owners jumping on other owners... What Generation you showed up at an event used to be irrelevant. Everyone was a Viper owner, and there to enjoy Vipers.






I don't know why anyone took what he said as offensive? He was simply pointing out that while many ACR owners don't like the gen5, a lot of other Viper owners don't like the ACR. Different strokes is all. A gen5 ACR is not going to be some saving grace for Viper sales.

[mikesax]

My biggest problem is I think the car is almost perfect the way it is- UNFORTUNATELY most people don't think like me! I wouldn't get an automatic for all the tea in China-interior is EXCEPTIONAL-styling is TIMELESS-performance is PHENOMENAL-pricing for a hand assembled custom auto is APPROPRIATE-sales are ...(SPEECHLESS)!! Some of the larger dealers haven't sold anything in months!! If you look at a dealer in South Florida- he is sitting on about 20 for 6-8 months-this is SAD!! Obviously this INCREDIBLE car has very little appeal to todays car buying public! A car without a market-EVERYONE who sees it and drives in it loves it-but no one is buying it-WOW!! The HYPE really really SUBSIDED- its a SHAME too- a true case of how NOT to remarket an automobile- a truer case of how difficult it is to UPGRADE an existing entity to the next level!! This car has a VERY LIMITED appeal at best-even though I would get a 3rd if possible- I am NOT the right person to listen to-I'm the odd man out- it's going to take a reintroduction to the media with some new amenities to land the $100,000.00 plus potential buyer- unless SRT is satisfied with selling 300 units a year!! I would LOVE to see demand for 1000-1200 units annually-that way there is incentive for SRT to continually upgrade-I REALLY HOPE they figure out a way to sell enough to continue the Viper-I would HATE to see it end!!!

[Policy Limits]

Not so sure about flappy paddles rendering manual transmission a dinosaur actually. Remember the C7 Z06 is coming with stick as an option. And for a reason.

[ohlarikd]

If the "Super Fast" auto in the C7Z can do this, I'll be impressed with it - comparing yourself to the PDK is a tall order

...911 Video...

But I agree. I'd kill for a Viper with DCT.

The 911 is just incredible. People say the PDK takes the fun out of driving, but man, that guy was smiling and laughing on every run. It's an amazing car.

I often wonder if the 911 is the reason the Viper is not selling. I KNOW that on paper, they are very different. But when the prices are so similar (well, not the Turbo S...), I think a buyer can't help but cross shop them just to be sure. There is no denying they are both sports cars, so they compete. And when they do, perhaps the test drive and the technology of the 911 sways people. I am not saying EVERYONE, but maybe a large percentage. I think you know what you are paying for in a Porsche, but people are not so sure in the Viper.

There is a Dodge dealer with Vipers across the street from the Porsche dealer in my town. Pricing is similar - ~$120K. There are quite a few 911s rolling around my town, and no SRT Vipers. Just an observation.

Viper Sales is one of life's great mysteries. Maybe they can make it a business case in a college class one day.

NOTE: I am not knocking the Gen V Viper. I would love a TA. I will readily admit that I am in the 'cannot afford it' camp.

[Newport Viper]

If the "Super Fast" auto in the C7Z can do this, I'll be impressed with it - comparing yourself to the PDK is a tall order

But I agree. I'd kill for a Viper with DCT.

Thanks for posting that.

If the Viper could launch like that. We would crash YouTube because we would upload so many videos.

I hate to start checking into these P cars but, that is way more fun then you can have in a V. I pray the Z06 can't launch like that.

[SWEEN]

A "Viper Guy/gal" is not one set of rules, it encompases a lot of different people that like the car for their own reasons.

Fair enough.

It's just when the Viper came out in 1992 it was so different than any other car, it stood for something. When cars weren't focused on performance , this car came in with a massive 8.0 V10 that blew the doors off of any car without the high sticker price. Look at those sales figures, those attracted the "Viper Guy" that I'm talking about and correct me if I'm wrong but had Viper's best sales to date.

I really do like the Gen V but I'd just like to see the Viper back to the days that it was the King of the Hill without debate. Yenno?

[VRYALT3R3D]

I really do like the Gen V but I'd just like to see the Viper back to the days that it was the King of the Hill without debate. Yenno?


It is already. Fastest production car at Laguna Seca. The Gen V is a street legal race car that dominates road courses.

The Aventador has 700 HP and does 0-60 in 2.9s. On paper, it should be faster then the Viper on a road course. Yet it isn't. So the Viper still blows the doors off of any car without the high sticker price. ;)