How many owners do their own installs

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Wondering how many viper owners out there like todo their own part installs. Also where do you draw line on your abilities or lack of specialty or expensive tools and just have a shop do the install. We are just trying to get a better understanding for our product install instructions. More detail, more pics with a tools needed list to perform install for our customers who like doing their own installs.

[Steve M]

I obviously don't own a Gen 5, but even if I did, I'd still do all of my own work where practical. There are no shops close to me that I trust to do the job right. Even if someone could, I wouldn't trust them to charge me a fair rate due to the fact that it is a Viper.

Everything I've done to my Viper was done with my own two hands in my garage on jack stands. I even do my own tuning, but that required a significant time investment to figure out. Unfortunately, I still do have to outsource some things that require large, expensive specialty tools, like tire mounting. If I had the room in my garage and the coin, I'd do that too though.

[RacerJRP]

I always prefer to work on my own vehicles. The only things I take to "the pros" are internal mechanics and paint/ body. Internal engine work, internal trans work, or diff adjust. Outside of that I will pretty much do anything else in my garage.

[ViperGeorge]

I will change brake pads, calipers, rotors, ebrake pads, oil, sparkplugs and other stuff. I have taken my sills off and muffler to reposition them because the clamps were loose and the muffler was drifting back and melting the rear inner fender liner. Needed another pair of hands and some machine shop tools to do the muffler job. Fortunately Mark Johnson of IPSCO is a friend and is in Colorado. He also know his stuff. Installed my AIM system myself. I have replaced the plastic dash surround on my Gen 4. I have had the radio out of my Gen 4. Installed IPSCO tow hooks. Removed seats to get to harnesses. Installed underdrive pulley. Swapped PCMs on my Gen 4 and Gen 5. Replaced thermostat on my Gen 4. Removed for service the Paxton on my Gen 3 and reinstalled it. I used to swap out intake manifolds and distributors on my 71 Torino and I rebuilt the Holly carb on it about a 100 times. That I could literally do in my sleep.

Will not tackle internal engine, trans, or diff stuff. Also if my car is somewhere for more advanced work I will have them take care of minor stuff along with the bigger stuff. For example Woodhouse installed carbon fiber brake ducts when they were putting in my 9 liter. The carbon fiber taillight panel they also installed and I probably would not have attempted that. I also don't know how to weld or do "good" body work although I did just paint the black exhaust openings on my ACR (see above the exhaust moved and melted the paint off so I repainted it with 2000 degree header paint).

I should add that the best instructional video I have seen was done by Infotainment. They do the Apple and Google play upgrades for the Uconnect system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALc99Z2Q8bo&feature=youtu.be

[13COBRA]

Same as George. I will not break in to an engine, but can/will do just about anything else.

[catwood]

I typically do what ever I have the tools to support. I don't have a lift but still will put it up on stands or something. As I get older I don't like the harder stuff as much but on the other hand I do it alot slower than rushing though. My days of pulling an engine are probably done. I have recently pulled a transaxle though with one other person helping.

[Mbccenter]

It's fun working on them and I really enjoy it. Will try just about anything :)

[Arizona Vipers]

The more detailed instructions you can provide the better it is for everyone, you guys included, it means less people contacting you asking questions etc. So spending the extra time/money initially on the best instructions you can, will save you time/money in the long run and make for happier customers. The best would be online instructions with youtube videos in addition to the paper instructions in the box.

[sharmut]

With Arizona Vipers on this one. The instructions from your brake cooling package is detailed well.

[RacerJRP]

The more detailed instructions you can provide the better it is for everyone, you guys included, it means less people contacting you asking questions etc. So spending the extra time/money initially on the best instructions you can, will save you time/money in the long run and make for happier customers. The best would be online instructions with youtube videos in addition to the paper instructions in the box.

Excellent point.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Thank you very much for all the quick feed back. We knew the viper community was more DIY based then our porsche, lambo, ferrari , mercedes , audi and race car customer base, we just wanted to confirm. Most all our install instructions are online at tkomotorsports.com. We have been discussing video install instructions done in house as well as viper owners doing product review and personal install videos.

[SLP]

Always install my own everything. Installed heads/cam/valvetrain/trans/clutch/steering components/accessories etc. Your instructions seem plenty detailed for me to follow. Just wished you guys stocked more/different parts!

[sadil]

Install everything on my own. It’s fun and I love working on the car.

[ViperSRT]

The answer isn’t so straight forward. Yes I can do just about any of it but sometimes choose to have someone (Alex) do something. Especially before I installed a lift at the Florida House.

[ChargerMan426]

I do everything in house that I can. I draw the line at the tools needed costing more than having the job done out of house. The only time so far thats come up was getting machine work done on a block. Transmission, electrical, you name it I'll do it in house. Granted I built a 2800sqft shop with a lift, tire machine, tig and mig welders, etc.....so I'm pretty committed to working on cars.

[inquirer86]

Thank you very much for all the quick feed back. We knew the viper community was more DIY based then our porsche, lambo, ferrari , mercedes , audi and race car customer base, we just wanted to confirm. Most all our install instructions are online at tkomotorsports.com. We have been discussing video install instructions done in house as well as viper owners doing product review and personal install videos.

From a consumer/customer POV that's awesome for what you're doing for the community, thank you

[Bryan Savage]

I'll draw my line at things that I can't lift on my own, things require a hoist, things that require machining, things that require a second person, and as I get older, things that my back will remind me about for the next week.

[13COBRA]

Always install my own everything. Installed heads/cam/valvetrain/trans/clutch/steering components/accessories etc. Your instructions seem plenty detailed for me to follow. Just wished you guys stocked more/different parts!

There really good with custom-fabbing anything.

Let them know what you're looking for, and they will build it.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Always install my own everything. Installed heads/cam/valvetrain/trans/clutch/steering components/accessories etc. Your instructions seem plenty detailed for me to follow. Just wished you guys stocked more/different parts!

Thanks SLP We have over 50 parts for the viper exhaust, cages, shocks, aero, brakes, cooling systems, seats, Only thing we dont do is engine internals. Parts available now are on our website. Other parts are in testing almost ready for release and some are in development. We were releasing a new part just about every month and then Covid happened and started mass SNAFU with raw material suppliers. We are now just starting to get back on track with new parts releases.

[Gen5snake]

I always do all my work. From slinging engines/trans, rears to oil changes.

[Joel]

I try to do all my own work and I have a pretty complete shop. I would suggest that you might rank your products with a system that gives customers an idea of the degree of difficulty of install. I have changed a Roadrunner clutch on my back in a carport but sure wouldn't do it now. That doesn't mean someone won't try it. But a clutch job really needs a lift, a transmission jack, basic hand tools, and a knowledge of how to do it properly. Changing seats no rack needed but you still need hand tools. Clutch rates a 5 on a scale of 5 because you need extra tools and the knowledge to do it. Seats are a 2 because they are cumbersome but minimal skill needed unless you are recovering them. Major engine work might be an 8 on a 5 point scale because most of us don't need to go there even if we can do it. You get the idea.

I put a roll bar and cruise control in my '03. Not for the weak at heart. No rack needed but you have to understand wiring and how a car is put together and it wasn't all that easy. I rewrote instructions for both for the reasons you have stated. It may seem easy once you have gone through the blood, sweat, and tears of designing it but for the owner who is cutting up his car or trying to follow a factory wiring diagram while following your directions not so much. I was lucky in both cases as the manufacturers were only too happy to answer my questions.

I digress. The best advice I can give anyone who makes products for cars is that when someone calls to buy something spend some time getting to know if they plan to install it or have it done. If they are going to install, take a few more minutes to find out how comfortable they are doing the work. Think back on the first time you did the project - not the last time you did it. Most enthusiasts take pride in working on their cars and will be glad you take the time to find out something about them.

[Whiskey]

I'll do all maintenance + repairs. Sensor replacements, exhaust upgrades, Brakes Suspension(shocks). I hate doing bushings so I always send that out.

I draw the line at engine builds (But will remove and install). Trans I always send out but will do clutch replacements. I'll rebuild the diff and do gear changes.

I'll tweak a tune but don't like to take the time to start from scratch especially on full MoTech/AEM's. HP isn't bad to mess with.

[ViperGeorge]

I'll do all maintenance + repairs. Sensor replacements, exhaust upgrades, Brakes Suspension(shocks). I hate doing bushings so I always send that out.

I draw the line at engine builds (But will remove and install). Trans I always send out but will do clutch replacements. I'll rebuild the diff and do gear changes.

I'll tweak a tune but don't like to take the time to start from scratch especially on full MoTech/AEM's. HP isn't bad to mess with.

I like the idea of rating the install difficulty. Providing video instructions, particularly of the more difficult installs, would be helpful. Take the Autoblip. I bought one and was going to install myself. Impossible for me. You need to be a skinny, flexible person with small hands to work under the dash. I may not be heavy but after removing the seat and trying to get under the dash I needed to see my chiropractor. I asked a well known Viper shop to do the install and even they couldn't get it done without the car throwing codes. Gave up. I have it if anyone wants to buy it. I'd sell it for $200.

[GTS Dean]

I can do everything except electronics and body work. Being knowledgeable about the peculiarities of the Viper itself help me choose specialists to perform work I opt not to. For powertrain work on the Viper, I have always had it done by professionals. Tool availability, free time and lack of recent practice are the major factors.

[Fatboy 18]

Being in the UK We have todo pretty much everything, there is no one or company I trust over here.

[Larryskillzs]

I enjoy wrenching on my cars. The 4 post lift helps a lot.

Major engine work I'll pass on. Other than that I'm down to try anything.

[Exhlr8n]

I like to work on my own cars as well, I'll do most anything that I have tools for. A very detailed list with instructions and pictures are very helpful for those once and done type repairs, or at least for the ones that aren't repetitive. Short cut clues and helpful hints are most appreciated too. Thank you for putting so much work and effort into the Viper platform!

[pony23]

I prefer to do all my own work on my car. I have always done restorations in my garage growing up. Everything from paint, body work, motor work, etc. The only thing I don’t do is tuning. Good instructions are always a plus. I think it’s great that you are trying to get a feel for your customer base. Kudos to you guys.

[EX1]

Thanks SLP We have over 50 parts for the viper exhaust, cages, shocks, aero, brakes, cooling systems, seats, Only thing we dont do is engine internals. Parts available now are on our website. Other parts are in testing almost ready for release and some are in development. We were releasing a new part just about every month and then Covid happened and started mass SNAFU with raw material suppliers. We are now just starting to get back on track with new parts releases.

Exciting! Any sneak peaks at those two exhaust systems?

[ViperTony]

I'll do everything except tuning. On engine builds, I leave the internals and blueprinting to the professionals but breaking down the engine, reinstalling not a problem. Though since having the GenV....I just drive...haven't had a reason to do engine work, yet. ;)

[gpbtt]

I do everything my self even the paint work. Grew up building cars.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Exciting! Any sneak peaks at those two exhaust systems?

Sneak peaks are going have to be our new product release day unfortunately. We stopped releasing prototype or beta product pics. We had other manufactures see pics of our prototype or soon to be released products and reproduce poor quality copies.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

This thread has been very helpful. Thank you again to all the members for the great feedback and ideas.
We have been discussing ranking product installs on a scale from 1-10 for about 3 years now. We are updating or website now so all our products will have an install rating number. Now you will know before you purchase what your in for and if you need to calculate in shop install cost before your purchase.
The 1-10 install scale would work as a reference guide
#1= oil change #2= install new brake pads #3= install cat back exhaust #5= install new ball joints.............. #10= RR engine or trans

TKO Motorsports will always back you up with tech advice and install help not matter what; So if your comfortable doing a #3 install difficulty but you want to up your game and go for a #6 install difficulty and you maybe get in a little over you head dont worry we got your back.

[Fulltilt]

I do everything in house that I can. I draw the line at the tools needed costing more than having the job done out of house. The only time so far thats come up was getting machine work done on a block. Transmission, electrical, you name it I'll do it in house. Granted I built a 2800sqft shop with a lift, tire machine, tig and mig welders, etc.....so I'm pretty committed to working on cars.

Care to show some pictures of your shop? There is a thread in the Off Topic area about shops. https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/26409-Let-s-see-your-garage I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on mine and I've been looking for pictures of what other people have done.

[phantomapollyon]

I try to do everything that *feels* straight forward to me, clearly a subjective measure and likely not helpful, as long as I'm not spending money on tools that I'll probably never need again. I'm comfortable with most maintenance and even a fair amount of involved modification as long as the solutions feel bespoke and well engineered.

I will say that from what I've seen, I find your instructions to be good but I'd love to see a video option. When there is a video of an install/mod I tend to use it in two ways. First, I will typically just watch the entire thing start to finish for perspective and expectations, I'm perhaps a weekend warrior/DIYer but I'm certainly not a mechanic. Second, it gives me something to use to sort of ground myself, so to speak, if I get lost during the mod/install process. For me at least, there's something about being able to literally see someone do it that tends to make things seem more approachable. (E.g. what position is the wrench in, what does this hole I'm cutting actually look like so I can approach it how it makes sense to me, does the job just look like a pain in the ass or does it seem simple enough, etc.) Whether its in my head or not, it probably is, it has certainly helped me out at times. There have even been some times where I've struggled for an hour, watched a three minute video, and then was done inside of 5 minutes, just because the words on the site/paper just didn't convey the method well to me. All of that said, in my opinion a video option needs to be very high quality and high resolution or it can just end up functioning as a summary video and not install/mod instructions.

[Steve M]

All of that said, in my opinion a video option needs to be very high quality and high resolution or it can just end up functioning as a summary video and not install/mod instructions.

Agreed, but folks also need to keep in mind that creating a few minutes of quality content requires hours upon hours of editing. Just putting together a ~1 minute video of one of my passes at the drag strip can take me a few hours, especially if I haven't done it in a while. Someone familiar with the editing tools can certainly make short work of things, but it isn't really a skill set that everyone just has sitting on the shelf ready to go at a moment's notice.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Phantomapollyon you are right and Steven M is right. High res video is pretty accessible these days. Setting up shots is time consuming even in a simple reference install video; Editing what you shoot isnt any fun and extremely tedious. Most of us gear heads/petrol heads are visual learners; Im sure most of us work in this order video, pics, and when all else fails read instructions. For some of the more advanced parts installs (ratings 5-10)
we think a video would help out alot of customers doing DIY installs. Nothing worse than being in your garage midnight on a Friday, trying to make a Saturday track day or race and you got a 95% complete install that your not sure about the last few steps. Install videos wont happen overnight like Steve M said "1 minute video of one of my passes at the drag strip can take me a few hours" but we will definitely work towards getting install videos up on our website.

[ViperGeorge]

Phantomapollyon you are right and Steven M is right. High res video is pretty accessible these days. Setting up shots is time consuming even in a simple reference install video; Editing what you shoot isnt any fun and extremely tedious. Most of us gear heads/petrol heads are visual learners; Im sure most of us work in this order video, pics, and when all else fails read instructions. For some of the more advanced parts installs (ratings 5-10)
we think a video would help out alot of customers doing DIY installs. Nothing worse than being in your garage midnight on a Friday, trying to make a Saturday track day or race and you got a 95% complete install that your not sure about the last few steps. Install videos wont happen overnight like Steve M said "1 minute video of one of my passes at the drag strip can take me a few hours" but we will definitely work towards getting install videos up on our website.

I think I may have mentioned this before but Infotianment, the folks that offer Apple/Google Play upgrades for the Viper did a very detailed well done video on the install. Very clear and made it look very doable by almost anybody. I think an install video like this is very, very useful.

https://www.infotainment.com/collections/all/products/2013-2017-dodge-srt-viper-8-4-4c-nav-uaq-retrofit-kit-with-apple-carplay-android-auto?variant=12116320813092

[phantomapollyon]

Phantomapollyon you are right and Steven M is right. High res video is pretty accessible these days. Setting up shots is time consuming even in a simple reference install video; Editing what you shoot isnt any fun and extremely tedious. Most of us gear heads/petrol heads are visual learners; Im sure most of us work in this order video, pics, and when all else fails read instructions. For some of the more advanced parts installs (ratings 5-10)
we think a video would help out alot of customers doing DIY installs. Nothing worse than being in your garage midnight on a Friday, trying to make a Saturday track day or race and you got a 95% complete install that your not sure about the last few steps. Install videos wont happen overnight like Steve M said "1 minute video of one of my passes at the drag strip can take me a few hours" but we will definitely work towards getting install videos up on our website.

I appreciate you guys listening, and to me you're already in the right place by gauging your customer base like this for sure. I believe the more DIY-friendly a particular "scene" is, the more desirable/realistic/necessary video can become. I think in general your Viper audience is likely split between the older and younger generations, and you probably have more folks in the younger generation more hungry for video than you historically may have had with some of the older generations. (at the very least that has been my personal experience)

For what it's worth I also definitely understand the time commitment necessary for video. It certainly makes sense to prioritize video for more difficult installs or things where you believe pictures might leave too much to the imagination. (I've done a bunch of audio editing myself and have been known to spend hours tweaking even a 10-30 minute audio/podcast clip so I can appreciate the rabbit hole you can end up going down with editing.) Resources aside, I also think there's something to be said for video having the ability to make things SO approachable that you actually expand your market for something that otherwise would have stayed smaller.


I think I may have mentioned this before but Infotianment, the folks that offer Apple/Google Play upgrades for the Viper did a very detailed well done video on the install. Very clear and made it look very doable by almost anybody. I think an install video like this is very, very useful.

https://www.infotainment.com/collections/all/products/2013-2017-dodge-srt-viper-8-4-4c-nav-uaq-retrofit-kit-with-apple-carplay-android-auto?variant=12116320813092

Yea, I really appreciated seeing that one because it's a mod I will most likely do at some point.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

I appreciate you guys listening, and to me you're already in the right place by gauging your customer base like this for sure. I believe the more DIY-friendly a particular "scene" is, the more desirable/realistic/necessary video can become. I think in general your Viper audience is likely split between the older and younger generations, and you probably have more folks in the younger generation more hungry for video than you historically may have had with some of the older generations. (at the very least that has been my personal experience)

For what it's worth I also definitely understand the time commitment necessary for video. It certainly makes sense to prioritize video for more difficult installs or things where you believe pictures might leave too much to the imagination. (I've done a bunch of audio editing myself and have been known to spend hours tweaking even a 10-30 minute audio/podcast clip so I can appreciate the rabbit hole you can end up going down with editing.) Resources aside, I also think there's something to be said for video having the ability to make things SO approachable that you actually expand your market for something that otherwise would have stayed smaller.



Yea, I really appreciated seeing that one because it's a mod I will most likely do at some point.

Your dead on Phantomapollyon. Younger viper owners will tackle just about any install if they have video. Mature viper owners work with pics and print any questions they email or call. Young or mature viper owners we are all the same for the most part visual learners; more pics and videos the better for all of us. We are going to start out with video for our more popular parts that are easier to install. The videos will be made with the DIY installer in mind. Pics and print install instructions will still come with all our products. All product install info will be on our website . We are hoping to eliminate as much as possible the Friday night midnight install thrash fest confusion.
Thanks for the video link ViperGeorge.