Barrett jackson Predictions

[Policy Limits]

I love to poke the bees nest as much as you guys hate it being poked with respect to value threads. Lol.

That being said, what do u think about the ACR/TA that will cross the block? 1/4 mill car yet? Lol

[Arizona Vipers]

I love to poke the bees nest as much as you guys hate it being poked with respect to value threads. Lol.

That being said, what do u think about the ACR/TA that will cross the block? 1/4 mill car yet? Lol

What it has going for it is there's not really any other auctions going on right now and the docket is VERY small. Lots of anxious, bored rich guys out there typing on their keyboards right now. hehe.
The format is different though, it's not going to "cross the block", you can bid anytime until it ends next Saturday- https://barrett-jackson.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?lid=53861604
The final price all comes down to if there are two rich guys at the end that both really want it.

[Mark1107]

Interesting. The Ferrari Daytona market corrected after the recession in 2013-2015 Michael Sheehan predicted it and Daytona’s that were selling for a million plus adjusted to 500-700k. (I know apples to oranges) same with 911 Porsche’s and Ford GT 2005-06 especially gulf editions that sold 500-600k are in low 400’s right now. You can find base ford gts for low to mid 200’s after a peak of mid 300k.

I think I with the current recession the acr TA won’t crack 160,000. Just my prediction. Usually in recessions we see car corrections period. It’s just a tough time for luxury goods. Cash is king right now, including gold and silver.

[Arizona Vipers]

Interesting. The Ferrari Daytona market corrected after the recession in 2013-2015 Michael Sheehan predicted it and Daytona’s that were selling for a million plus adjusted to 500-700k. (I know apples to oranges) same with 911 Porsche’s and Ford GT 2005-06 especially gulf editions that sold 500-600k are in low 400’s right now. You can find base ford gts for low to mid 200’s after a peak of mid 300k.

I think I with the current recession the acr TA won’t crack 160,000. Just my prediction. Usually in recessions we see car corrections period. It’s just a tough time for luxury goods. Cash is king right now, including gold and silver.

Where did you see GT's for low 200's? I see a wrecked one on ebay for that, but none others. But I only checked ebay.

[Bruce H.]

I think the last 25% of the winning bid dollars is mostly a mixture of ego, alcohol and all the hype and excitement of a live auction. With most of that missing in an on-line auction, and lots of time to consider and evaluate, I expect much of that last 25% to be missing also. And then there's the general economy that some affluent buyers might not want to be seen flaunting wealth. Then again, I might be giving some way too much credit, lol.

[Ghost410]

Where did you see GT's for low 200's? I see a wrecked one on ebay for that, but none others. But I only checked ebay.


I’ve watched the gt market very closely for some time. There’s none in the low 200s without very storied pasts. I’ve seen a few decent sell for 240ish but that’s usually for a less desirable color. Most sales are 270ish

[CarbonDan]

I'm expecting a high bid around $145-150 without meeting reserve.
Never really understood the crazy high valuations on TAs. They are 10 of a kind, whereas tons of others are 1 of 1s, GTC, and downgraded iron brake kit instead of the standard CCBs.
(I know Iron is more cost effective for track use - buy the CCBs, replace with iron rotors right away, and preserve $15-20k of value).

[Policy Limits]

Yeah they are clear that there's a reserve. since the last one hammered for low 200's one would deduce that the reserve is at least two hunnit. but who knows.

Great news on the FGT. I had no idea. Always wanted one but that market skyrocketed before I started looking. Gonna search now ha.

[Arizona Vipers]

Yeah they are clear that there's a reserve. since the last one hammered for low 200's one would deduce that the reserve is at least two hunnit. but who knows.

Great news on the FGT. I had no idea. Always wanted one but that market skyrocketed before I started looking. Gonna search now ha.

It didn't hammer for "low 200's", it hammered for $187K. Then 8.5% sales tax and the buyers fee.

[ViperJon]

Won’t make reserve with no FaceTime for intoxicated buyers. Whole different time and different reality now.

[Bill Pemberton]

Agree with ViperJon that the hammered buyers often help the price that is hammered. I think we will see a drop for awhile, similar to 2008 through 2011 , with gradual upswings coming along the way. With Porsche going heavy electric, Tesla, Mustang EV, etc., I will predict the big block machines of today will mirror the mid year Corvette Big Blocks of old. History so often repeats itself, though humans often do not pay enough attention to it, due to our innate issue of resistance to change.

Supply and demand ---------demand will return and the supply of Vipers is inherently quite limited to other wicked machines of the past.

[sadil]

195k

[JPL]

There's this (I know it's not a genV):

https://barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2010-DODGE-VIPER-ACR-VOODOO-EDITION-1-238901

[Policy Limits]

If you owned the orange car what reserve would u put on it realistically? 187k?

[StrokerAce]

If you owned the orange car what reserve would u put on it realistically? 187k?

It would depend on a few factors. I might take less if I need to money to purchase something that to me has a higher value. If I don't need to sell I would set the reserve to $200k and let the chips fall where they may. However, I don't see it selling at that, I predict high bid will be $175k.

[ViperGeorge]

I obviously don't know what the reserve is but I would think it is around $185K. I don't see it getting anywhere near the reserve in an online auction.

[IHOP]

I think the last 25% of the winning bid dollars is mostly a mixture of ego, alcohol and all the hype and excitement of a live auction. With most of that missing in an on-line auction, and lots of time to consider and evaluate, I expect much of that last 25% to be missing also. And then there's the general economy that some affluent buyers might not want to be seen flaunting wealth. Then again, I might be giving some way too much credit, lol.

Totally agree, final hammer price all depends on the amount of alcohol and ego's!

[Cadster]

I think that car was sold by a small dealer out Asheville NC, Wheel City Motors. I live in NC and was going to look at the car when they sold it. Days later, it was online for $40,000 more by the dealer in CA. Meanwhile, I ended up buying a 2005 Ford GT. Then COVID happened and the world changed.

I still want to add a Viper. I would not be surprised if that car was acquired by the selling dealer for around $175. I tend to think the actual cash value today is around $155-160. Very little chance the car makes reserve, but I might bid just in case. Of course, the 10% buyers fee will hold the bid price down considerably.

[Cadster]

I’ve watched the gt market very closely for some time. There’s none in the low 200s without very storied pasts. I’ve seen a few decent sell for 240ish but that’s usually for a less desirable color. Most sales are 270ish

Here’s a data point. I bought my 2005 Ford GT in early March just before COVID lockdowns. It was a sub-4000 mile, white with blue stripes, pristine, one-owner car from a reputable dealer (Bernie Katz...RIP). I was comparing to 3 other, more or less, identical cars, except one was just over 1000 miles, but all were one-owner cars. The one I purchased was the only one I could get below $270. Obviously, much has changed in the world, and it’s anyone’s guess where the high-end car market is heading. Safe bet, no cars are probably going up in value in the near term. Vipers, much like 05/06 GT’s are closer to the bottom than most cars, as they benefit greatly from being discontinued “end of an era” type cars.

[06SRTCoupe]

I'm expecting a high bid around $145-150 without meeting reserve.
Never really understood the crazy high valuations on TAs. They are 10 of a kind, whereas tons of others are 1 of 1s, GTC, and downgraded iron brake kit instead of the standard CCBs.
(I know Iron is more cost effective for track use - buy the CCBs, replace with iron rotors right away, and preserve $15-20k of value).

This is not just any T/A. This is an ACR-E T/A. Huge difference and much more rare.

[Policy Limits]

I usually go to the mohegan sun auction in person because its only an hour from my house. That bar really is flowing all day ha. not this year I guess. Glad I didnt put my car in.

[CarbonDan]

This is not just any T/A. This is an ACR-E T/A. Huge difference and much more rare.

I'm saying there are 10 identical ACR-e T/As, with a big hit to value right from the factory due to lack of CCBs, whereas there are actual 1 of 1 configurations out there. Just think the valuation is a bit backwards on these ones for some reason.

[Bryan Savage]

43313

[Voice of Reason]

Im saying there are 10 identical ACR-e T/As, with a big hit to value right from the factory due to lack of CCBs, whereas there are actual 1 of 1 configurations out there. Just think the valuation is a bit backwards on these ones for some reason.

My very specific beef with ACR TAs is well documented on here so I wont go into it but I do see why they are highly sought after and hold value. With 1 of 1s you end up with a situation where everyone is unique so none of them are unique. It is also why 2014 TAs hold their value better than other non ACR cars. It is a specific numbered car package that allows sellers and buyers to be able to compare against past sales values. All these other 1 of 1s May be cool but cross valuing them is impossible.

[ViperGeorge]

I'm saying there are 10 identical ACR-e T/As, with a big hit to value right from the factory due to lack of CCBs, whereas there are actual 1 of 1 configurations out there. Just think the valuation is a bit backwards on these ones for some reason.

The lack of CCBs is actually a plus to some of us. Not everyone, I get that, but to some of us. They are cheaper to replace when you wear them out. Tracking the car will wear out CCBs even though they will last forever on the street. The steel rotors are tougher and less likely to be damaged if you hit them with a wheel when changing tires, which you do a lot of when you track the car. Lastly they allow the use of Viper OEM wheels in 18 inch size in front. This offers a few more tire options.

The steel brakes were cheaper to order as well. The point of the ACR-E/TA was to provide a car that track rats would value despite its lower cost. The ACR-E/TA had an MSRP of something like $129K if memory serves. Many of the other ACR-Es I looked at were at least $20K more. The color is also a plus and is a color many people seem to like. Bill purposely did not add the carbon fiber rear panel or the carbon fiber x-brace to keep the cost down. Of course you could add them yourself if you want them.

I'm personally surprised that the ACR-E/TAs are going for the kind of money they are. I love mine, especially the color (I've always wanted an orange car). Most of the ones that have been for sale have like no mileage on them so maybe this is part of the reason they are pulling in big dollars. It seems like several folks bought them to stare at in their garage or maybe they figured they would increase in value, who knows.

[Bruce H.]

1 of 1's obviously had extra value to those who spec'd their own. At resale time I would think their appeal to a buyer would mostly be based on color combinations, with many 1 of 1's sharing the same color combo but different in some other cosmetic way. Not many had different performance specs, just iron or CCB's I believe. The various factory special editions had no performance spec differences at all, but the factory made the cosmetic choices and numbered them which is what defines them as different and more collectible.

The ACR/TA is like the factory special editions in that they are all identical, they different in that they do have a unique performance spec, they're numbered, they're the rarest of the factory and dealer special editions by far, and they're perhaps the most instantly recognizable of all the many '17 special editions. There's a lot of love for the TA name and I think Woodhouse was brilliant in blending elements of both when creating this. That doesn't mean it's spec'd as everyone would necessarily want, as would be the case with all the other Vipers out there, and all other collectibles for that matter, but it's uniqueness, numbered rarity, and instantly identifiable appearance makes it highly collectible. Woodhouse is a Viper Nation institution and that may even enhance its collectability.

Btw, are the 100 2013 SRT Track Pack and 159 2014 TA model cars the only factory Gen V numbered limited edition cars to have a unique performance and cosmetic spec?

[Bryan Savage]

Btw, are the 100 2013 SRT Track Pack and 159 2014 TA model cars the only factory Gen V numbered limited edition cars to have a unique performance and cosmetic spec?

What's the 2013 Track Pack? I didn't know that was a numbered edition.

150 Launch Edition GTS
93 OTA
33 WTA
33 BTA
50 Carbon Editions
100 GTS-R
33 Dealer Edition
25 Snakeskin
28 1:28 Edition
31 VoooDoo

I think all these were numbered, but not necessarily "# of ##" numbered. Like the TA2.0s, those numbers did not have a cap, I don't think..

[Bruce H.]

The 2013 Track Pack was a run of 100 identical demon red SRTs I recall that were fitted with some track performance upgrades, brakes and SWII wheels and Corsa tires for sure and not sure what else beyond that. They were the most trackable Gen V for 2013. Maybe someone else could confirm whether numbered or not.

But the question was about numbered limited editions that also have a unique performance spec. None of the factory '17 special editions did to my knowledge (only cosmetic). And only 10 of the 2014 Carbon Editions did, #41-50 built with the TA Package. It's the combination of both limited numbered and unique performance spec that sets the '17 ACR/TA apart from the other FEs, and what I suspect makes it particularly attractive as an ACR collectible. Those who buy them won't track them, may not care about iron vs CCBs, but will favor the extreme rarity, uniqueness and instant recognizability with that iconic orange paint.

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ I like the analysis provided by Bruce that value is determined by a combination of production volume, color desirability, unique performance upgrades, and miscellaneous other -- likely in that order. I also think that the ACR/TA is a runner for most collectible because of the low number of cars, the iconic and tremendously awesome color, and the Woodhouse name. The brakes are not a performance upgrade, but they are unusual on the ACR spec, so that is something. The interior is another one of those items that is technically a downgrade, but it is different and unusual for the car, so that's another one. It's an incredibly unique build. I think it is a $200k car if the economy were still humming like it was 2 months ago, but we have Corona today and my hunch is that auto buyers are largely hunkering down and not looking to increase their collections right now. So, I would not be surprised if we see lower. But 5-10 years out and anything under $200k will look like an absolute bargain.

I don't know as much about the 10 carbon cars #41-50, but those sound amazing as well.

[ViperNC]

I predict I'll be sitting on the couch drinking beer/getting hammered watching the cars go across the block getting hammered.

[RT SERPENT]

Best (and most accurate) predication of all!:t1236:

I'll do the same, and forget the rest of this nonsense.

[Voice of Reason]

I had a 13 Track Pack car, they were not numbered. Outside of us Viper die hards they are just red Vipers.

[John N]

What's the 2013 Track Pack? I didn't know that was a numbered edition.

150 Launch Edition GTS
93 OTA
33 WTA
33 BTA
50 Carbon Editions
100 GTS-R
33 Dealer Edition
25 Snakeskin
28 1:28 Edition
31 VoooDoo

I think all these were numbered, but not necessarily "# of ##" numbered. Like the TA2.0s, those numbers did not have a cap, I don't think..

Just 22 Dealer Editions were made, Woodhouse opted out somewhere in the process leaving only Tomball and Roanoke with 11 each. Love that spec, was the backup to my 1-of-1 if issues messed that plan up.

[Policy Limits]

Satisfied with all of the SE cars they came up with. If the 1:28 had red wheels like the gen 4 1:33 I think it would've been perfect. the voodoo II is so sinister; probably the most bad ass evil one. Like Darth vader crossed with a demon serpent.

[Cadster]

Already up to $127,500, or $140,250 after 10% buyers fee. Still over four days left. I’m kind of surprised that it’s ran up that fast. Who knows, maybe it does get to the high teens after all.

[swexlin]

The 2013 Track Pack was a run of 100 identical demon red SRTs I recall that were fitted with some track performance upgrades, brakes and SWII wheels and Corsa tires for sure and not sure what else beyond that. They were the most trackable Gen V for 2013. Maybe someone else could confirm whether numbered or not.

But the question was about numbered limited editions that also have a unique performance spec. None of the factory '17 special editions did to my knowledge (only cosmetic). And only 10 of the 2014 Carbon Editions did, #41-50 built with the TA Package. It's the combination of both limited numbered and unique performance spec that sets the '17 ACR/TA apart from the other FEs, and what I suspect makes it particularly attractive as an ACR collectible. Those who buy them won't track them, may not care about iron vs CCBs, but will favor the extreme rarity, uniqueness and instant recognizability with that iconic orange paint.

I have a 2013 Adrenaline Red (not Demon) Track Pack. Apparently 100 built, yes. Numbered, no. I'm the 2nd owner. These came standard with SW2s, StopTech rotors, and Corsas. Whoever ordered mine spec'd the full leather Sabelts (a very expensive option). These are supposedly the lightest and "highest top speed" (whatever that means) cars for 2013.

But correct, outside of of us enthusiasts, it's just a "base" car with a wheel and brake upgrade.

[Bill Pemberton]

History often gets distorted by those that were not there and so much is somewhat distorted by what they hear. The funny thing is both in 2010 and 2017 I suggested to SRT that we do a Dealer built model . In 2010 there were 6 Dealers offered because Dodge wanted at least 10 - 20 models done per Dealer and there were only a few that could do this. Bingo, Woodhouse , Roanoke and Tomball became the only three to do a 2010 model. Suggestion to do again came about with the end of the 2017 model year and SRT decided to do it again. We were the only Dealers offered , but we had requested a model on our own from the beginning , but SRT wanted to do a identical model for all three. We did not feel this was in our best interest and did not match what we had suggested at first , so Dodge decided to let us substitute our own design for the Dealer model --- though they only let us do 10 instead of 11 as they were afraid some parts were in short supply.

Regardless of all the arguments that folks seem to want to bring up ( and none were there) , this was not an easy process to get Dodge/SRT to do, but they did because we had worked so well together for over 20+ years. So to all the folks who have no idea how difficult it is for a Corporation to agree to do something that modifies what it sees as a nice offer , they fully agreed to build the Woodhouse Edition, block the T/A color, number the car , etc. At present the folks who made the decisions and helped a lot are still there and emails and other notes are not appropriate , but the ACR/TA was our Dealer Edition and the comments from some of our Competitors and Dodge Executives let us know it was not only successful it was also unique in being the least expensive limited model ACR-E built at under 130K.

So far established and respected collectors have shown the value of the car, and the use of the steel rotors ( enabling folks to use TA rims and have alot more choices in tires ) was something we should have done on other Vipers 100 fold -- with all the requests we get if we have other cars done with steel rotors.

Life is funny, in that so often individuals who were never involved in something seem to have all the answers. In over 26 years at Woodhouse I have been amazed at how difficult it is to get the Automotive Manufacturers in Corporate America to not only listen to their Dealers , but to do special things ( they are often concerned about litigation if they play favorites ). This is not a FCA issue it is Ford, GM, etc. ( remember we have 18 Dealerships) and to Dodge and SRT's credit they did so much with their larger Viper Dealers , it should be commended. Not saying it was easy, but they did step out of a closed room and made some special decisions that you as consumers should appreciate. As the years go by, more and more folks will realize how many special Vipers there are , and the struggle to get them built was done because a special group of individuals ( many who will never , ever get credit ) , pushed the envelope and opened their ears to their bigger Dealers. I have never been foolish enough to think it was just us, and in future years I hope some of the key ( and hidden ) players will get their due.

Enough as , I am rambling as usual, but with comments that the Woodhouse Edition was not part of the Dealer Built models is somewhat hilarious, when we started the entire concept and helped get it done initially in 2010.

[Arizona Vipers]

I have a 2013 Adrenaline Red (not Demon) Track Pack. Apparently 100 built, yes. Numbered, no. I'm the 2nd owner. These came standard with SW2s, StopTech rotors, and Corsas. Whoever ordered mine spec'd the full leather Sabelts (a very expensive option). These are supposedly the lightest and "highest top speed" (whatever that means) cars for 2013.

But correct, outside of of us enthusiasts, it's just a "base" car with a wheel and brake upgrade.

That's the exact car I had. It weighed just over 3200 lbs with no fuel.

[Viperenvy]

"Life is funny, in that so often individuals who were never involved in something seem to have all the answers." So true Bill.

As the guy who is slowing building the 1998 GT2 timeline, I find inaccurate information published everywhere and people regurgitating it. However, that is part of the fun. I have met so many fascinating Viper Team members because of curiosity, asking questions, and asking who might know. Then finding out the JonB is an encyclopedia on the GT2 and other things.

Here's an idea - an owner of a particular model and member of the VOA could start an owners group, chronicle the build, and bring the owners together. If you are a person that is interested in doing that, call me. I will tell you what I did :) 248-705-1245

Thank you Bill for great insights and sharing the knowledge!!! You are a treasure.....

[Policy Limits]

Sticker slappers, sticker slappers not in the real 6 Special Edition wrappers. Never gets old LMFBOOOO

[06SRTCoupe]

I'm saying there are 10 identical ACR-e T/As, with a big hit to value right from the factory due to lack of CCBs, whereas there are actual 1 of 1 configurations out there. Just think the valuation is a bit backwards on these ones for some reason.


The value is not backwards. You need to do more research on the valuation of cars and specifically, Vipers. Like the other guy said, the 1 of 1 cars are specific to a customer and part of a program. They are not the same as a factory produced and numbered, limited edition car...not even close.

[Scott_in_fl]

The value is not backwards. You need to do more research on the valuation of cars and specifically, Vipers. Like the other guy said, the 1 of 1 cars are specific to a customer and part of a program. They are not the same as a factory produced and numbered, limited edition car...not even close.

Agree and disagree. Agree that value of collector cars is not necessarily dictated by the MSRP or abundance of options. Some of the most valuable of the muscle cars were special race models that were lightweight because they had stripped interiors, or lacked popular option packages, etc. The value of those cars is dictated mostly by the small take rate and the fact that most were raced (and trashed or destroyed), and very, very few currently exist in collectible condition. It could be argued that the ACR/TA falls into that category with its very unusual (and to many, very desirable) option selections.

I disagree though that 1-of-1 cars cannot even get close to the factory numbered SE cars. I'll give two reasons. First, the SE cars were not produced like other collectible special editions (think original Z06 Corvette from 1963), that were something like 1% of the annual production of a given model. FCA made something like 20% of the production into SE's, likely to sell cars. They are "special", but were not very limited.

Second, while I agree that many 1-of-1's will not be considered "special" enough to surpass the value of some of the SE cars, there are plenty that easily will. I would estimate that 10-20% of the 1-of-1's were done really well, and that those will bring top dollar once they are pried away from the cold dead hands of their owners 20, 40, 80 years from now. As evidence, I introduce Exhibit 1:

43429

[CarbonDan]

Speaking as a car collector myself and someone who is actively trying to buy a Viper ACR-E - I am willing to pay a huge premium for a 1 of 1 stryker purple then any of the factory numbered special editions.
There's one data point for consideration.

[ACRSNK]

Speaking as a car collector myself and someone who is actively trying to buy a Viper ACR-E - I am willing to pay a huge premium for a 1 of 1 stryker purple then any of the factory numbered special editions.
There's one data point for consideration.

Doesn

- - - Updated - - -


Speaking as a car collector myself and someone who is actively trying to buy a Viper ACR-E - I am willing to pay a huge premium for a 1 of 1 stryker purple then any of the factory numbered special editions.
There's one data point for consideration.

Doesnt Viper Exchange have what you are looking for

[CarbonDan]

Doesn

- - - Updated - - -



Doesnt Viper Exchange have what you are looking for

Iron brakes at CCB prices for some bizzare reason.

[ViperGeorge]

Iron brakes at CCB prices for some bizzare reason.

Some of us prefer "iron" brakes, more wheel choices and more tire choices and cheaper to replace. They would actually be worth a premium to me.

[darbgnik]

Some of us prefer "iron" brakes, more wheel choices and more tire choices and cheaper to replace. They would actually be worth a premium to me.

If you actually plan to track it......

[Policy Limits]

I prefer to wash it, wax it and stare at it.

[sadil]

If you actually plan to track it......

Loll at this point, I just hope most buyers end up using the damn cars. All that downforce changing the climate in the garage!

[CarbonDan]

High bid was just shy of $170k, reserve not met.

[ViperGeorge]

Yup, didn't sell.

[CarbonDan]

Still a pretty reasonable showing though, buyer was willing to do about $187k all in for it and there were 3-4 people fighting for it at the end there.

[Scott_in_fl]

No surprise that it did not sell. Worth just holding onto for now.

[Mark1107]

High bid was just shy of $170k, reserve not met.

Seller should have taken it.. that was huuuuuugggggge mistake! He will never see another 170k during the depression pandemic. Once the dust settles the seller will reach out to old buyer who will then offer 150k.

[Mark1107]

I was off by 10k but close. Again the ACR TA is a gorgeous car. The 230k car was an aberration not the standard. Theses cars just arent worth 200k yet. Viper Exchange has a handful between 150-190k they have all sat for a year pre pandemic. Were in a recession now folks.


Interesting. The Ferrari Daytona market corrected after the recession in 2013-2015 Michael Sheehan predicted it and Daytona’s that were selling for a million plus adjusted to 500-700k. (I know apples to oranges) same with 911 Porsche’s and Ford GT 2005-06 especially gulf editions that sold 500-600k are in low 400’s right now. You can find base ford gts for low to mid 200’s after a peak of mid 300k.


“I think I with the current recession the acr TA won’t crack 160,000. Just my prediction. Usually in recessions we see car corrections period. It’s just a tough time for luxury goods. Cash is king right now, including gold and silver.”

[Scott_in_fl]

Market prices for all goods fluctuate daily. Selling goods during a pandemic crisis is not likely to pull top dollar. For speculators, that is not good and they may be forced to take what they can get at so.e point. But most of the desirable cars are with holders that will ride out the storm. Give it 18-24 months and prices will be back to pre-recession highs and even higher.

[ViperJon]

I was all set to buy the wife a new car in late March and then this mess set in. Decided to hold off because a) have no idea where new cars prices will be when the dust somewhat settles and b) we have no where to go right now lol....People are just holding on to the purse strings a lot tighter to see where the economy is mid summer.

[Policy Limits]

Will be short lived period of time. Trump is gonna rebuild the economy a 2nd time. When he does no liberal with a straight face will be able to say that it's due to Obama.

[Bruce H.]

I was off by 10k but close. Again the ACR TA is a gorgeous car.

In what order of desirability/value would you and others rank the '17 factory and dealer editions?

[Oh Three Z]

My top 10 concerning desirability. Across the entire generation

GTSR
Voodoo2
Stryker ACRs
Top 20% of well executed 1of1s
Comp blue anything
Woodhouse
Roanoke
OTA
Black TA
Mine

[Policy Limits]

Not every numbered car will be so valuable. A good example is the launch Edition. Epic car with retro color scheme but 150 units was just too many imo. And that's besides it being the wrong year.

Ordered on opening day with 15k SRT coupon in hand & had the pic of the litter. Ultimately I wanted the one that was the most limited. Every Viper is Special. of the SE cars I think the two SSG ones will be least collectible. The stripes themselves are cool but they flow wrong on the car imo. The 1:28, Vooodo II, GTS-R will all do well. A different number of my car got up to a buck and a half at auction and didn't meet reserve. So I doubt it would ever be worth less than sticker.

The woodhouse sticker slapper is NOT a manufacturer SE car. The Tomball & Roanoke cars are SE from the factory. Read the press releases. There's 6 only. Great car and will be worth great dough but it's more like a solid edition or the like ala a Gerry Wood car. Bill will chime in and say no one knows what they're talking about with respect to the issue when they disagree but it's well documented on here that he refuses to deny that the dealership itself slapped those stickers on there and perhaps contrived an internal Edition out of allocation. Some of that is opinion and some of it is Fact.

The TA will do well too but not like the ACR Extreme Special Edition cars.

[Bill Pemberton]

Here we go again, the Special Dealer Edition done by Dodge for Woodhouse is not legit because a disgruntled Attorney in Connecticut says so. There is an ethical reason I have not answered your silly little sour grapes constant prompting and egging me on. I guess I will have to just be satisfied that the car sold out in less than 2 hours -- actually less , but that was when I told Mark Jorgensen they were all gone. Funny there were cars like yours for sale for months, so I am afraid I will just have to take your whining for years until I can tell the whole story, but it will be worth the wait. In the meantime I will have to just be content with the interest the machines bring whenever they come up and I am afraid there are some Dodge Executives opinions of the car that , for some reason, I find a lot more satisfaction in than your constant derogatory statements.

Seems to me the simple adage is money talks since at only 129+K ( new ) , old Orange brought about 100K more than that with the first one Auctioned . Sure appears almost everyone is pleased but you.

By the way, any reason why , as an Enthusiast you seem to feel the right to complain about your little dislikes on a Viper Forum ---maybe folks would prefer to listen to a Viper owner who was also willing to spend the small sum necessary to be a member? You obviously get alot out of the Forum since you have over 4000+ posts. I sold the crazy things and worked with Dodge and SRT everyday I was at work, often into the night , but I only have 3200+ posts , so I know you have gotten alot of value hanging out here.

[Policy Limits]

It's just so funny !!!

Honestly I love the car you guys came up with. The tires and brakes have street functionality and the paint is to die for. I heard the real reason why the 33 dealer editions went down to 22 units but won't share in the spirit of the ethics that you mention. For someone who doesn't care about comments you sure do come running to answer the bell Billy boy.

The rules do not preclude being an enthusiast and since I've owned both the first and last model years of the final edition of the snake I have a lot to share as said enthusiast. There's much more to come so perhaps you should utilize the block feature.

Happy retirement!

[Bill Pemberton]

I would never presume to know your business as an Attorney as I worked with them for 10 years doing Estate Planning, ( many are still close friends ) yet you constantly think you know all the situations about what happens within a huge Automotive Corporation and the daily changes, negotiations, or input given. I am still a sicko concerning Vipers because I was so insanely passionate about the car I let it consume my life from 99 to 2017. So it gets pretty tiresome when you constantly direct comments on things you absolutely know nothing about - and I do know for a fact what you think you know you don't.

Simple answer, Woodhouse has never divulged or leaked information given to us by those at FCA and whether I work there or not, some things will stay closed until I am given an ok.

Time to move on and retirement will be fun, as more racing ( NASA and SCCA ), more instructing, more VOA Events, and some consulting.

We sold you your first Viper, and now you have a 2017, so like many of us you are very passionate. You obviously see value in posting here, so why not, as a very successful Attorney spend a tiny amount of bread to support this small group's library of Viper Information and future success.

[Arizona Vipers]

It's just so funny !!!

Honestly I love the car you guys came up with. The tires and brakes have street functionality and the paint is to die for. I heard the real reason why the 33 dealer editions went down to 22 units but won't share in the spirit of the ethics that you mention. For someone who doesn't care about comments you sure do come running to answer the bell Billy boy.

The rules do not preclude being an enthusiast and since I've owned both the first and last model years of the final edition of the snake I have a lot to share as said enthusiast. There's much more to come so perhaps you should utilize the block feature.

Happy retirement!

You are poison to this forum. Poison. You live a sad sad life to come on here where everyone hates your guts to talk about how your Viper sits in your garage and how much money it will be worth one day. LOL. If you would have put that $140K into a real investment 4 years ago you'd have $500K. lmfao. Do your co-workers, family and friends know what you post here? :icon_devil:

[Mark1107]

In what order of desirability/value would you and others rank the '17 factory and dealer editions?


Order of value and desireability According to ex forum Troll Mark who loves all Vipers! All viper lives matter.


1. GTSR 2017
2. GTSR Nurburgring sticker edition 2017
3. Woodhouse ACR TA
4. SE ACRs 2017s Ssg, tricolors, voodos, 128s.
5. Any 2016 0r 2017 ACR
6. Stryker Red (including One Viper Bites Rosso Fuoco)
7A (tie) Orange TAs
7b. (Tie) Stryker greens
8. Stryker purples
9. TA ebony and ivory’s, Lol.
10. 2013 launch editions.

Cheers!

[ViperGeorge]

There are maybe two guys that know what really goes on with Dodge re the Viper. One is Bill Pemberton of Woodhouse and the other is John Gastman of Roanoke. Yea, Viper Exchange sold a lot of Vipers but they never, in my opinion, had the same connection with Dodge. If Bill or John says "this is the way it is" you can take it to the bank. Maybe you dealt with another Viper dealer including VE but you would not have gotten the same level of insight that you would get from Bill or John.

I know John thought that Bill's vision for the ACR-TA was brilliant. If you don't like the ACR/TA buy something else. I know more of the story on the ACR/TA than probably any of you. I own the first one built, but I won't comment as there are people at FCA that went above and beyond. Bill had the contacts to make it happen. Some people are so hung up on whether the TA sticker came from the factory. I assure you that Bill did not order stickers to slap on the car when the cars arrived at Woodhouse. How f'ing stupid do you think Bill is? Why don't you just accept his word on the amount of work that he had to go through to get the concept approved. Policy Limits do you remember the Gen 4 ACR convertible? This was Bill's vision and these cars are among the most valuable Gen 4s today. Until the demoncrats take over it is still a free country. Policy Limits get a life. End of story.

[ACRSNK]

There are maybe two guys that know what really goes on with Dodge re the Viper. One is Bill Pemberton of Woodhouse and the other is John Gastman of Roanoke. Yea, Viper Exchange sold a lot of Vipers but they never, in my opinion, had the same connection with Dodge. If Bill or John says "this is the way it is" you can take it to the bank. Maybe you dealt with another Viper dealer including VE but you would not have gotten the same level of insight that you would get from Bill or John.

I know John thought that Bill's vision for the ACR-TA was brilliant. If you don't like the ACR/TA buy something else. I know more of the story on the ACR/TA than probably any of you. I own the first one built, but I won't comment as there are people at FCA that went above and beyond. Bill had the contacts to make it happen. Some people are so hung up on whether the TA sticker came from the factory. I assure you that Bill did not order stickers to slap on the car when the cars arrived at Woodhouse. How f'ing stupid do you think Bill is? Why don't you just accept his word on the amount of work that he had to go through to get the concept approved. Policy Limits do you remember the Gen 4 ACR convertible? This was Bill's vision and these cars are among the most valuable Gen 4s today. Until the demoncrats take over it is still a free country. Policy Limits get a life. End of story.

Not to get into this pissing contest but if Woodhouse did not put the TA stickers on those 10 cars was that done at the factory I think that is a question that was never really answered love the car and I almost bought the number nine car as it was offered to me from Bill but I already had my GTSR coming and decided to stick with that instead not sure why answering that simple question is such a big deal Also the Gen IV ACR convertibles were wildly different from what was available if they did the same thing with the ACR TA it hands down would have been the most unique and likely valuable ACR made hands down

[quickster2]

I belong to 3 motorcycle forums, used to be 5 when I had my Harley. Only on this forum do we seem to denigrate each other and our cars so much. Maybe the passion for the cars has to manifest itself elsewhere as well. I'm just glad the car exists and for the many folks I've met so aligned.

[Policy Limits]

Peep the ANTI STICKER SLAPPER!!

LMFBOOOO!!

[ViperJon]

To be perfectly honest if I had to choose over again between my '17 GTS-R and the ACR/TA I'm not sure what I'd do. Pluses and minuses to both choices. Love the heritage and commemorative significance of the GTS-R in Viper history, love the CCB's (for a street car that are amazing. ZERO brake dust and last forever) and love the classic color. But...also loveeeeee the Orange. Couldn't care less about it's "rarity" as orange TA's were the most popular and they made 92 of them. My playtime wrangler Rubi is Punk'N orange and I loved my orange TA. Also love the cloth seats. And well....it was 30K cheaper as well. Really close call for me....

[Racingswh]

I belong to 3 motorcycle forums, used to be 5 when I had my Harley. Only on this forum do we seem to denigrate each other and our cars so much. Maybe the passion for the cars has to manifest itself elsewhere as well. I'm just glad the car exists and for the many folks I've met so aligned.

The new C8 forum over at CF is pretty brutal as well.

For me cars are just the means to an end with that end being having fun with my friends at the track. My Viper ACR-E happens to be the cheapest car I have ever owned in that regard. It's quick enough, it's reliable enough and anything major that has gone wrong has been taken care of by the warranty. Best car purchase I have made to date. It already owes me nothing and what it's worth in 20-30 years may matter to my kids I guess. I am just going to keep having fun on the track with it.

[Scott_in_fl]

Fun question to rate the most likely future collectors among Gen V. Based purely on production numbers and the likelihood that a certain number of cars within each series will become heavily modded, run up with high mileage, damaged/totaled, etc. (certain series more likely than others), I see it as follows:

1. 1:28 cars -- I like the significance of the series (this specific color model actually set records), the color combo is a winner, and the low volume is great with only 28 cars. Sold out in 40 mins. However, I rarely see these cars out or on IG, so most are likely being collected. This means that there will be close to 28 pristine cars available for the aftermarket in the future. Although it has not shown yet, I expect these to eventually be bought and sold only among collectors for large dollars.

2. VooDoo2 -- great series carried over from VooDoo1 prior gen, color combo is awesome, 31 cars, sold out in 2 hours. Can't really identify why it is so good other than the unique stripe (silver with red pinstripe) that could not be replicated. But again, for one reason or another, most seem to be cocooned somewhere in collections as I rarely see any evidence of them in the wild. Likely to transfer only among collectors in the future.

3. ACR/TA -- Regardless of how everyone eventually views this car, either as a factory SE or a very unique and well done 1-of-1 done 10x, it is iconic in its color and TA inspired options. The fact that it took special permission to get accomplished and the influence of some heavyweights internally (which I believe wholeheartedly, and I bet we would all recognize the names of those involved), is mega. These will have nice valuations going forward, but I think they will be somewhat less than what I believe are the 2 most desirable SE cars.

4. Well done 1-of-1's -- I'd say maybe 20% are very well done, but most of those are likely to be true 1 of a kind cars because they are unusual combinations that owners ordered sight unseen. These will likely price very near to the ACR/TA imo. In fact, I see 3 and 4 on this list as nearly a tie. Many of these orders were owners taking a chance and hoping that the car in the metal would look as good as the car they designed on the configurator. We're talking Stryker purple with Snakeskin Green driver's stripe (who would've thunk it, it is awesome), custom silver with blue stripes, etc., etc. The fact that these are 1 of a kind, done by the factory, is huge. Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it will take the right buyer to appreciate these cars, but some of these combos are so drop dead gorgeous that they are a hit anywhere.

5. Other SE cars -- starting with GTSR, then snakeskin, then dealer edition, in that order. Without any differentiation between them other than their colors, the value of these cars are likely to be driven mainly by that fact. The GTSR is a heritage car of sorts, but I dislike the relatively high production number at 100 cars (about 15 percent of overall final year ACR-E production), and the fact that the '98 car is really the heritage car. The snakeskin is an amazing color in the real, and the dealer edition is either love it, or hate it.

6. 2014 TA's -- These are going to be huge, from a percentage appreciation perspective. Perhaps even better than the above list. A well cared for, unmodded numbered 2014 TA in black, then orange, then white (all imo), is going to be very sought after 10-20 years out.

7. First Edition -- The color combination is so iconic. Need I say more?

8. All Stryker color cars -- these colors were done beautifully. They should hold nice values from here.

There you have it. My picks.

[ViperGeorge]

Not to get into this pissing contest but if Woodhouse did not put the TA stickers on those 10 cars was that done at the factory I think that is a question that was never really answered love the car and I almost bought the number nine car as it was offered to me from Bill but I already had my GTSR coming and decided to stick with that instead not sure why answering that simple question is such a big deal Also the Gen IV ACR convertibles were wildly different from what was available if they did the same thing with the ACR TA it hands down would have been the most unique and likely valuable ACR made hands down

To me the question of the stickers is silly. I guess I understand that people want to know all of the details on the cars but still. The stickers came from the factory with the car regardless of whether the factory pre-installed them or the dealer did. Most people are missing the point that Woodhouse had to jump through hoops to get these cars made. Remember the GTC program was to create unique cars not 10 of the exact same car. Bill had to get the factory to authorize 10 duplicate GTC cars spec'd with the TA Orange paint (which was then restricted to these cars), the TA interior with orange stitching, and yes steel brakes. The steel brakes might not be for everyone but many of us that track our cars prefer them because they are cost effective. He could have ordered them with CCBs and buyers could have tried to find the parts to convert them to steel but then the cars would have been more expensive. The parts for the conversion to steel probably weren't even available yet from people like Racing Brakes.

In fact I did not originally upgrade my 2015 TA 2.0 to a 2016 ACR because I could not use the CCBs. With the CCBs I had to run 19" wheels in front and there were no "legal" tires that I could buy from Tirerack for the One Lap of America. That is the event I have run the car in for 3 years (and other Vipers for years before). I was not aware that I could get steel brakes until Bill mentioned it with the ACR/TA. In fact an SRT engineer friend who has run One Lap several times for Chrysler told me to avoid the CCBs for One Lap and heavy track use.

Regardless of who installed a sticker on a car (by the way we are talking about a sticker here), the dash plaque clearly spells out what the car is and that was for sure installed at the factory. It is also not unusual for parts to be delivered with the car for the dealer to install. Think radio antennas and hub caps in the old days and think ACR-E splitter and supports for our cars. No one would say that an ACR-E with the splitter installed is not a real ACR because the owner or dealer installed the splitter extension which the factory provided, would they? Wasn't there even previous special edition Vipers (maybe the Pace Car versions in the 90s) that had stickers delivered to the dealer with the car in case the owner did not want to put them on? Not sure about this but I seem to remember something like it.

So bottom line for me is I don't get why some people get so hung up on the sticker. Hell I've actually changed my ACR sticker because I didn't like the red in it on an orange car. The OEM manufacturer of the sticker who a friend put me in contact with made special ACR stickers for me that cut the red out. That company made the stickers including "Stryker" for the front of the ACR as well as the stripes for Challengers and other cars. Is my car no longer an ACR or an ACR/TA because I took off a factory applied sticker and put on a non-standard sticker? Well if it isn't real anymore it doesn't matter as I plan to drive it and have fun especially now that I upgraded the factory engine to a non-factory 9 liter extreme.

To each their own but I can tell you that Bill Pemberton worked his butt of getting these cars approved and it must be discouraging for him to hear people say "well the car isn't real because we don't know who put the sticker on". Truth is that several FCA execs contacted Bill and told him they thought the car was special, I think one even wanted to get one.

[Bruce H.]

Ah the creation of ACR/TA and that decal. Still one of Viper Nations sweet mysteries...and may it ever remain so!

Perhaps the most talked about final year Viper. Whether you think it a dealer special edition or not, you can't deny it is 100% special, and I think celebrating the essence of both record setting Gen 5's simply brilliant!

George, enjoy yours to the fullest. Rack up the miles, smiles and memories all you can and when the time comes to sell there will be a line of enthusiast buyers wanting to own and enjoy your "special interest" Viper even if they don't fit the profile of a serious "collector". Cha-ching, cha-ching baby for 10 lucky owners!

[Viperenvy]

Sheesh - I know the almost 24 months of figuring out the GT2's creation in 1998. Luckily there were just (2) special edition Gen II that were numbered, but only (1) built VIN sequential. A lot of work digging, but the Gen V story needs to be unpacked with a couple of cases of Viper Team Jack..........

[ACRSNK]

To me the question of the stickers is silly. I guess I understand that people want to know all of the details on the cars but still. The stickers came from the factory with the car regardless of whether the factory pre-installed them or the dealer did. Most people are missing the point that Woodhouse had to jump through hoops to get these cars made. Remember the GTC program was to create unique cars not 10 of the exact same car. Bill had to get the factory to authorize 10 duplicate GTC cars spec'd with the TA Orange paint (which was then restricted to these cars), the TA interior with orange stitching, and yes steel brakes. The steel brakes might not be for everyone but many of us that track our cars prefer them because they are cost effective. He could have ordered them with CCBs and buyers could have tried to find the parts to convert them to steel but then the cars would have been more expensive. The parts for the conversion to steel probably weren't even available yet from people like Racing Brakes.

In fact I did not originally upgrade my 2015 TA 2.0 to a 2016 ACR because I could not use the CCBs. With the CCBs I had to run 19" wheels in front and there were no "legal" tires that I could buy from Tirerack for the One Lap of America. That is the event I have run the car in for 3 years (and other Vipers for years before). I was not aware that I could get steel brakes until Bill mentioned it with the ACR/TA. In fact an SRT engineer friend who has run One Lap several times for Chrysler told me to avoid the CCBs for One Lap and heavy track use.

Regardless of who installed a sticker on a car (by the way we are talking about a sticker here), the dash plaque clearly spells out what the car is and that was for sure installed at the factory. It is also not unusual for parts to be delivered with the car for the dealer to install. Think radio antennas and hub caps in the old days and think ACR-E splitter and supports for our cars. No one would say that an ACR-E with the splitter installed is not a real ACR because the owner or dealer installed the splitter extension which the factory provided, would they? Wasn't there even previous special edition Vipers (maybe the Pace Car versions in the 90s) that had stickers delivered to the dealer with the car in case the owner did not want to put them on? Not sure about this but I seem to remember something like it.

So bottom line for me is I don't get why some people get so hung up on the sticker. Hell I've actually changed my ACR sticker because I didn't like the red in it on an orange car. The OEM manufacturer of the sticker who a friend put me in contact with made special ACR stickers for me that cut the red out. That company made the stickers including "Stryker" for the front of the ACR as well as the stripes for Challengers and other cars. Is my car no longer an ACR or an ACR/TA because I took off a factory applied sticker and put on a non-standard sticker? Well if it isn't real anymore it doesn't matter as I plan to drive it and have fun especially now that I upgraded the factory engine to a non-factory 9 liter extreme.

To each their own but I can tell you that Bill Pemberton worked his butt of getting these cars approved and it must be discouraging for him to hear people say "well the car isn't real because we don't know who put the sticker on". Truth is that several FCA execs contacted Bill and told him they thought the car was special, I think one even wanted to get one.

Was just asking because there was never a straight answer regarding the same. The ACR/TA is one of the baddest ACR's made hands down. Just wondering why some gaps can't be filled in on the details. Nothing to get defensive about as everyone is aware as to what the car is and what it took to get it done. Pretty sure everyone on here would love to have one. I for one think the mystique surrounding this car will only add to it's future value. I should have bought the one Bill offered me for sticker at $129,785.00. That was a bargain if I ever saw one and I paid WAAAAAY more for my GTS-R.

[Voice of Reason]

Without commenting on Stickergate I did want to say that the dash plaque saying ACR/TA doesnt mean anything. Those plaques were free form for 1 of 1 cars, someone could have made theirs say Corvette C8 but that wouldnt change what it was.

[Policy Limits]

The real SE cars got a 25th Anniversary badge. All 6 of them.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

I am curious as to what the window sticker said, not that it really means anything at this point. I would have liked to have had one, but as soon as I heard of it, they were sold out when I made the call. I do think they are very special cars.

[ACRSNK]

It is a GTC window sticker like all the 1of1 ACRs The only mention of TA on the window sticker is the TA interior

[Policy Limits]

Because contrived. The Authentic Manufacturer Special Edition cars with the 25th Anniversary Dash Plaque also spell out the years of the snake. "1992......2017." 1/4 Century of Venom!

Pretty Epic!

[Scott_in_fl]

I admit that the dash plaque is very cool, but all 2017's are anniversary cars.

The only issue I have with the SE cars, and it really is the only one, is that they just made too many final year SE's. So many that the entire year's production is, by default, just as special and just as limited -- some more so.

When we think about collector values of SE cars, we are recalling other makes whereby the manufacturer made an incredibly small percentage of cars as an SE. We're talking like 1% of production. With 700 or so final year ACR-E's, that would have been 7-10 cars.

Had that been the case, or had they done as many as 20-30 cars, then you'd really have a strong argument for values far exceeding non-SE's. But above that, I think you lose the "special" and "limited" aspect of the car. With approx. 200 SE cars for 2017 out of 700 total, I just don't see it. It was the reason I passed on SE myself.

[Policy Limits]

Having #6 of 11 isn't so bad, but I hear ya. The point of the 25th Anniversary plaque wasn't to suggest that the other 2017 models weren't 1/4 century out because they were. It was just to illustrate how the ones with the plaque are the official special Edition cars from the Manufacturer.

No one is getting rich on a flip that even doubles down the line. Taxes, insurance and maintenance, storage etc will likely negate any gain. Just ask the FGT guys. Guess it's just refreshing to not have depreciation, for a change.

[ViperJon]

In what world is a run of only 200 cars of five different colors and styles numbered and designated as final editions saturating the market.
Talk about a desperate reach that nobody here is buying....Imagine that....almost four per state!

[ACRSNK]

The SE cars are also some of the most sought after Vipers consistently holding much higher values than the rest. Kind of like the Orange TA's. Doesn't matter that they made nearly three times more orange TA's than white, or black, the orange TA will always command a premium over the other colors. They made 100 Gen V GTSR's, but if hundreds of thousands of people want a GTSR and nobody wants the only hot pink Viper made, the fact that there are a hundred times more of something that nobody wants means nothing.

[ViperSRT]

I think we need a new site or forum for the my car is better than your car crowd. 90+% of the people I meet can’t tell one Viper from another, let alone if a dash plaque is special. And all because of the paint!

[Bryan Savage]

I also suggest a Kickstarter for Bill Pemberton. You owe him a buck for every question or reply about the TA-ACR decals. lol

[Policy Limits]

Yeah I don't think there's "too many" SE cars. Had to go out with a bang. Especially since the car went out on top with a 7:01 ring time. Every Viper is hand built and is Special, we all know that. However numbered SE just have that extra quality to them. Amazing to consider that the plant produced in a quarter of a century the same quantity of units that other factories put out in a single year. Honestly I've only seen a handful of snakes from all generations out in the wild in my entire life.

[Scott_in_fl]

There are too many SE cars, that is a fact. It does not mean they are not terrific. They are. All of them are. Why? Because (a) a Gen V ACR-E is awesome no matter what color it is painted; (b) FCA did a great job selecting some nice combos for the SE's that make them waaay nicer looking than most of the quick order cars (but for maybe the GTSR blue w/ white stripes, and the silver tri-color which became the poster car); and (c) as Policy points out, they are designated by the MFG as part of a series, which is always good.

But 200 is just too many, given the overall production volume of 700 identically performing, and very similarly optioned cars (some of which are far better optioned).

Had they made all 700 as SE's, do you think there would be a "collector" premium? If your answer is no, then your reasoning must be that there is nothing special about an SE car when there are no non-SE cars. In a sense, any non-SE car would be far more limited, rare, and unique. But if none exist, then that does not matter.

If your answer is yes, that all 700 would be considered "collector cars", then your reasoning must be that they are collector cars for some reason other than being a limited subset of a larger whole. You might think all are collectible because all are final year cars that book-end an important chapter in US sportscar history.

By now, you must see where this is going. If you're really arguing that 200/700 or nearly 30% of all cars can sustain collector valuations in the future, you cannot legitimately believe that it is due to their rarity among other 2017 ACR-E's. When you go to sell your SE in the future, there are just too many others that you will theoretically be competing against for a top dollar.

Rather, I believe all of the 2017 cars are most likely to be "collectible". Sure, with all of the custom combinations, and many quick order cars in standard colors, there will be some variation -- and, my guess is that the SE cars will always be at the top of that range. But any value delta will likely be slight, if any, above other desirable cars (stryker cars, the aforementioned GTSR blue w/ white stripes, the top 20% of 1-of-1 cars). Of course, this is only my opinion and, as they say, we all have one.

[ACRSNK]

Do you think they made too many Orange TA's? Will those continue to command a premium over other non orange TA's even though they made 3X as many? If FCA made 1,000 ACR's and 500 were all painted the same color, with the same options and were designated as SE cars and 99% of the consumers wanted only that model even though it was 50% of total production and 1% of the consumers wanted and opted for the "rare" models (non SE cars), which cars do you think would command a higher premium? The "rare" cars, or the non "rare" cars that everyone wanted? Simple math here and it doesn't take a logistical genius to figure this out. Everyone does have opinions and they are entitled to the same, but the masses speak to the value of things. Just because something is rare, doesn't mean that it is valuable. All 30,000 Vipers are rare, but not all are valuable in terms of what certain Gen V's are bringing.

[nitromilt]

I have purchased more than one viper from Bill P every purchase was a great experience. Never once did i give 2 shits if its gonna be a collector car (i think all vipers are) and as long as it had some value when i traded or sold it...im cool with that. My last Viper was the 1:28 for me in my opinion the best looking one ever......and it is unfortunate that i cant drive it due to a medical condition that happened to me just days before it arrived in Blair Ne. So over 3 years later it sits in my man cave with a battery tender on it with a grand total of 229 miles on the odometer. Im prepared to keep it and pass it on to my grand kids who knows what the value will be in 30 years. Still think its best looking one produced.

[Scott_in_fl]

You may be making my point. OTA is a great example. 99 cars vs. 33 for black and white, yet higher priced. Why?

Because people have historically been willing to pay up for the color first and foremost. The Gen V is fantastic in the TA orange. If you had to have that color, and many who purchased it did, then you had to find an OTA. Had that color been available on other Gen V's, like the black or white, prices for OTA would probably be exactly what they are for black or white TA.

And, let's not get carried away. TA prices are better than others, but they're not silly. Black or white TA is marginally better than any other well kept similarly optioned no TA. Maybe 5% better? OTA's are not a moonshot either.

So, carried over to ACR-E, I have consistently said that people will pay up for the color combination first and foremost. Thus far, sales history has proven that out. We have a very active buyer on the forum right now who cannot source a stryker purple for what he believes is a fair price. Why? Because the only one available is selling for more than what he can purchase an SE car. And why is that? Because there are too many SE cars, and apparently not enough stryker purple cars.

Nitromilt, sorry to hear that you cannot enjoy the car. And, yes sir, you have the best of the best imo. Stay well.

[ACRSNK]

I see the point you are trying to make, but we are going to have to agree to disagree. I think some of the 1of1's were really well done, but even so, they are not pulling the same numbers as the SE cars despite being more rare. I agree there aren't enough Stryker Purple cars. Those are beautiful and I'm sure the guy actively looking will find one eventually. The numbers at the place he found one tend to fluctuate when they become aware of a serious buyer for something they have in stock. What is the average sales price for a Stryker Purple car over the last 12 months vs. average selling price for an SE car? Does anyone even have that information? From what I have seen it is pretty close, but the overall performance of the SE sales has been rock solid since 2017. What happened to the Stryker Purple ACR that was for sale in MA for $130K?

[Bruce H.]

You guys need to find an accurate example to base your beliefs and argument...


The SE cars are also some of the most sought after Vipers consistently holding much higher values than the rest. Kind of like the Orange TA's. Doesn't matter that they made nearly three times more orange TA's than white, or black, the orange TA will always command a premium over the other colors.

It's a myth that an orange TA commands a premium over white or black no matter how much some love the color. I've followed TA values pretty closely over the years, helped put numerous TA buys and sellers together, and been privy to actual sale prices not posted on the forum. I have never seen an asking or actual sale price trend to support the belief that there is a premium paid based on that particular color. More orange cars have changed hands, not always for very strong money, and some for ridiculously low dollars. Buyers that want a TA buy the color they like best. Prices for black and white cars have been rather consistently strong, and actually the highest I'm aware of.


Do you think they made too many Orange TA's? Will those continue to command a premium over other non orange TA's even though they made 3X as many?

I think fewer numbers would definitely help their values. If they don't command a premium over other colors now it's unlikely that they suddenly will.


You may be making my point. OTA is a great example. 99 cars vs. 33 for black and white, yet higher priced. Why?

Because people have historically been willing to pay up for the color first and foremost. The Gen V is fantastic in the TA orange. If you had to have that color, and many who purchased it did, then you had to find an OTA.


Again, there's been no evidence of a premium based on color. TA is also stunning in both white and black, with their buyers preferring those colors just as much as the orange buyers preferred orange. I know some who would only consider one of the 3 colors and that was that. People just want what they want...and those who want black or white probably aren't too upset that there were only 33 built for '14.

[Policy Limits]

Five generation 5 Vipers have hammered over 200k so far. The next Ford GT...?......!

[ViperJon]

I think fewer numbers would definitely help their values. If they don't command a premium over other colors now it's unlikely that they suddenly will..

Great anecdotal stories but the truth of the matter is the 92 Orange TA's sold out faster than the 33 Black and whites. I know because I was actively looking for one and had access to the nationwide database of dealers who had them in stock and there were several black and whites available but NO Orange TA's. This is not some story I "heard" its a FACT. I almost settled for a white one but an Orange popped up very slightly used from a member here. Regarding resale values there is no way anyone can make a definitive statement on that. But when 93 sold out faster than 33 that would speak to the popularity and STILL does. Mileage, condition, mods and who's selling them make a huge difference of course.

The Orange TA was the poster car for TA's and the one at the cars shows...seeing it in NY really whet my appetite. Google Viper 2014 Viper TA....enough said what photos come up. The fact is that an orange TA screams Viper TA....white or black could be any Gen V unless you are familiar with the TA differences. There's a reason why when Woodhouse decided to make their ACR/TA they chose TA Orange.

[Policy Limits]

There's a reason why when Woodhouse decided to make their ACR/TA they chose TA Orange.[/QUOTE]

So you opine that the car is not a manufacturer Edition and is instead dealer contrived or nah?

[Scott_in_fl]

As always, it will boil down to supply/demand.

The SE camp believes the demand for SE cars will outstrip the supply of SE cars. The non-SE camp believes the supply will always be too much for the demand.

At BJ 2030, any SE car going across the block will no doubt be announced that it is 1 of 100, or 1 of 28, etc. Without any other information, that sounds amazing. But any savvy bidder thinking of dropping $500k+ on the car will no doubt do some research and see that there are numerous SE editions. Determining which edition is "more SE" than any other will be nearly impossible. To date, there does not seem to be any clear preference given the available sales data.

So now the 2030 BJ bidder realizes there are 200 total SE cars, from several SE editions. So why bid up too high if the next one is likely to become available at a lower price?

And the bidder also likely learns that there were also non-SE cars made in extremely small numbers -- indeed, far less than 100 or even 28 identical cars. For some, there is only 1. And now the buyer is truly confused, just like we are today, and most likely discounts his bidding for an SE car accordingly because the last thing he wants to hear at the local C&C is that the guy that pulled up in the stryker purple with silver stripes car has the only one ever produced. What a kick in the pants!

And that is why I believe SE cars will always do well, and stay at the top of the range but will not substantially distance themselves from the top 20 percent of the 1-of-1's.

[ViperSRT]

Demand when new means nothing about demand years later. The couldn't give away the Hemi package or Charger Daytona's back when they were new. Many examples of this. Never heard how fast they sold out as a precursor to collectability years later. One thing we do know is the number of Gen 5 Vipers that will be very low mileage in 10 or 20 years will be substantial. Meaning supply of collectable examples will not be rare.

[Bruce H.]

Jon, what you are not accepting is that not every enthusiast that lusts after the TA wants to own a bright or flashy colored Viper. A number of members here have posted that they specifically only wanted to find one of the other colors. You want what you want, and you'll search, wait and pay a premium to get the car and color you want, whether that be orange, white or black. Not everyone feels the need to own the poster colored car, whether that be an LE, TA, ACR or any other. The Viper has always been flashy enough, been very popular in black, and I believe the only color TA's were available in throughout '14 - '17 production, and both white and black were the choice for most of the final year special editions. Many just love the Viper in white, black, competition blue and the full range of colors and could care less about what color the poster car was.

There's been a lot more orange TA's advertised for sale because there's more of them out there, and we've seen the extremes in their asking prices, but there's no evidence that they sell for more on average...feel free to show us otherwise. I'd suggest that the rarity and appeal of the other colors account for their strong values.

[ACRSNK]

As always, it will boil down to supply/demand.

The SE camp believes the demand for SE cars will outstrip the supply of SE cars. The non-SE camp believes the supply will always be too much for the demand.

At BJ 2030, any SE car going across the block will no doubt be announced that it is 1 of 100, or 1 of 28, etc. Without any other information, that sounds amazing. But any savvy bidder thinking of dropping $500k+ on the car will no doubt do some research and see that there are numerous SE editions. Determining which edition is "more SE" than any other will be nearly impossible. To date, there does not seem to be any clear preference given the available sales data.

So now the 2030 BJ bidder realizes there are 200 total SE cars, from several SE editions. So why bid up too high if the next one is likely to become available at a lower price?

And the bidder also likely learns that there were also non-SE cars made in extremely small numbers -- indeed, far less than 100 or even 28 identical cars. For some, there is only 1. And now the buyer is truly confused, just like we are today, and most likely discounts his bidding for an SE car accordingly because the last thing he wants to hear at the local C&C is that the guy that pulled up in the stryker purple with silver stripes car has the only one ever produced. What a kick in the pants!

And that is why I believe SE cars will always do well, and stay at the top of the range but will not substantially distance themselves from the top 20 percent of the 1-of-1's.

I'll give you this, you are very persistent at trying to prove your point. Only problem is not many agree with you. You seem to equate rare with value and that's not always the case. Fact....there are many "rare" cars that are worthless. Why? Because nobody wants them. Certainly not the case with ACR's. The model itself is extremely rare relatively speaking at around a thousand units over two years. For all the reasons already discussed at length the ACR will continue to be sought after. Most looking for these cars will likely want one of the SE cars, even though collectively they make up a significant portion of the total therefore commanding a premium over the rest. There will always be the outlier that wants what they want and is willing to pay for it, but that does not determine, or create the market for that car. it just means that one person was willing to throw some cash at that particular car and at the end of the day if there is not another person like them that likes that car as much as they do when it comes time to sell they will take a significant hit in "value". I firmly believe that the SE cars are better insulated against future declines in value over the rest of the 1of1's. That's not to say there are not some 1of1's out there that I myslef wouldn't pay more for, because there are, but again, my taste may not be everyone else's taste. What I do know is that one of te most significant premium over MSRP was being paid for the GTSR. Just ask VE. They sold all they had without issue. Finding an SE car is starting to get harder and harder. All the while there are quite a few pretty nice 1of1's for sale. In the end, I think the market will tell us what the cars are worth, which is fine. I didn't get rich off cars and I don't think my GTSR is going to change that for me if/when I decide to sell. I enjoy the car and am actually looking for another one. Guess which one I am looking for.....an orange TA. Why....because despite it not being the most rare of the 3, I still like it. I suppose I would also consider black if the right car popped up, but both of those are certainly not as "rare" as some of the 1of1's and I would still opt for those regardless. I'm sure that a lot of future owners and collectors will continue to appreciate what the factory did with it's SE cars and color schemes, stickers and all. I am also looking for a SnakeSkin ACR if anyone has one for sale ;)

[Viperenvy]

For someone who knows next to zero about Gen V, this is a GREAT learning thread.

What I can add is this....there are forum posts around the similar topic concerning the 1998 GT2 from 2000 forward. Words like rare, numbered, sequential, horsepower, demand, values, antidotal, facts, and auction.

The conversations maintained demand would only increase and values would increase as well.

History as determined that vehicles bought for the range of sticker to $30,000 over have sold for $77,000 to $125,000 with a recent outlier (for the moment) of $108,000 for a 31,000 mile example. The vehicle is at its 22 year market with the earliest one just having its birthday on May 5th at 10AM. It may be the time to finally see the rise in demand that has been expects for 22 years - maybe.

The future will have the final say on history concerning every valid point everyone has made.

Please keep it up - I enjoy learning about all the models. Gen II only has RT/10 and GTS. RT/10 is only color combinations. GTS with GT2, ACR, FE. The raffles are truly 1 OF 1 with zero dispute.

Thank you again for the education ;)

[Scott_in_fl]

One thing we do know is the number of Gen 5 Vipers that will be very low mileage in 10 or 20 years will be substantial. Meaning supply of collectable examples will not be rare.

Excellent point, and also explains the current capped pricing for '05/'06 FGT at the $270k-$300k level. There are always plenty of sub 5k mile cars available. And there must be tons of other bubble cars sitting in garages that are not currently listed.

One important difference though is that there were 4,000 FGT's built in 05/06, and only several hundred ACR-E. So, who knows.

[Policy Limits]

:fpopcorn:

Man I just love value threads....

Gets the juices flowin...

Most proclaim to hate them. However, thousands of views, pages of content & continuing.

Love what I started (OP) LOL

[ViperJon]

One important difference though is that there were 4,000 FGT's built in 05/06, and only several hundred ACR-E. So, who knows.

Yes but the FGT's don't have as many almost sorta FGT's....like regular Gen V ACR's...TA's.....Gen 5's.....Gen IV ACR's...and down the line....32K cars over 25 years.
A lot to pick from if an ACR-E is over budget.

[Scott_in_fl]

LOL, Policy, so true. Everyone hates these threads, yet they are always some of the more popular ones on the forum. The banter is fun, if you can afford the car then you know you're not investing in it, and obviously nobody can tell the future, so all of it is pure mental masturbation.

[Arizona Vipers]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

[ACRSNK]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

You can't be too bad with money as you obviously had / have enough to buy some sick cars!!!

[ViperSRT]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

Math isn't the strong point :). 140k at 6% compounded is 335.5k after 15 years. Still more than 280k, but not crazy more.

[Scott_in_fl]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

You'd have approx. $335k after 15 years at 6%. But still, you're point is very valid given the holding costs.

[Bruce H.]

I still find any thread that isn't about the fear of an engine grenading to be truly refreshing :stickmen_burningsti

[ViperJon]

Well hopefully you got some great moments of enjoyment out of owning it as well. It's not just about ROI.

[Patentlaw]

Well hopefully you got some great moments of enjoyment out of owning it as well. It's not just about ROI.

Exactly. Respectfully, but people who have "real" money are not looking at everything as a return on investment. They are not eating tuna fish sandwiches so they can afford to buy .005 more shares of a different stock. People buy houses that now are not such a great deal. You can't write off the interest on them and the property tax credit is maxed out. Some times you have to live life some. If the car did not go "down" in value, as well, you still made out compared to the average car that depreciates to practically nothing. It is all in your perspective.

Crap...I could have bought Amazon stock back in 1998 for a fraction of the value today. Does not mean I am somehow diminished in what I decided to do with the money.

[Bryan Savage]

Allow me to opine a moment...

Disclaimer: All bets are off for what I'm saying if the car has been modified.

One thing I liked about the TA when I was shopping for mine was that once that "TA Package" box was checked, that was it. No other options were available except the exterior color. All I had to do was pick what color I wanted. I could shop at Pemberton's Playhouse from 2,000 miles away without worrying that some car I liked was equipped with options I didn't want.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but SE cars are like that. All cars of each SE are the same spec. With a small amount of research, a buyer will know exactly what they get and don't get. There's no need to pour over a window sticker to see what other options were or were not there.

Imagine now, if you will, a 1-of-1. This program catered 100% towards the original buyer and let's face it, probably 0-5% to the second buyer. If you bought a 1-of-1 to your specification, you can't be surprised that when you want to sell it, nobody likes what you like, and you can't get top dollar. How many of you looking for a post-2014 car, find one you think you like and then get soured because it turns out the interior is gross, or not the color you wanted, or didn't have the carbon interior package you like. When you're the second owner, YOUR "1-of-1" may not even exist, so unless you're extremely lucky or not picky, any one you find isn't going to command your top dollar, because you're likely making a compromise of some kind.

Many people knew these when buying theirs, so you tend to see many of the same type. Silver/Black/Red. White/Black/Red. Red/White. Blue/White. Extreme. All Carbon. Full Stereo. Maybe that's what the original person wanted, or maybe that was also the decision they made because they knew a purple & green car with the three-speaker stereo, no rear interior, and the unpainted wing might be a tough sell.

I think it's because of this reasoning that, despite having higher numbers of identical cars produced, the numbered SE cars will ultimately carry more value in the resale market.

[Policy Limits]

LOL, Policy, so true. Everyone hates these threads, yet they are always some of the more popular ones on the forum. The banter is fun, if you can afford the car then you know you're not investing in it, and obviously nobody can tell the future, so all of it is pure mental masturbation.

Right like you don't have 7 figure value already when you drop six figs on a toy. at the right investment % you should be able to double your money every ten years. typically a car just doesn't fall into the category of investment. other times it does. I passed on a 50k Dino because it was yellow. The thing is worth 1/2 mill now. But who has a crystal ball?

Such a win just owning what is usually a depreciating asset and seeing it not depreciating imo.

[Blue T/A 2.0]

I think you consider yourself very fortunate if you have any kind of vehicle that retains 50% of it’s original MSRP after 5 years. It seems that most well cared for Vipers may possibly retain 60-75% around 5 years or so unless you have one of the special editions or low production where the sky can be the limit. Investment wise, I think you are better off with a nice growth stock investment fund that doubles every 5-6 years and have other cash or safer investments for the short term. A lot depends on your time horizon. Unless you are a dealer than can make wholesale auto purchases and then sell for retail without the extra cost of sales tax and insurance, then you are better off looking at your toy collection as prized possessions than investments. Gen 5s seem to be pretty solid. Sometimes you get lucky.

[GM_500]

Demand when new means nothing about demand years later. The couldn't give away the Hemi package or Charger Daytona's back when they were new. Many examples of this. Never heard how fast they sold out as a precursor to collectability years later. One thing we do know is the number of Gen 5 Vipers that will be very low mileage in 10 or 20 years will be substantial. Meaning supply of collectable examples will not be rare.

Great points here...
In 15 years, no one will remember that dodge couldn't give away a viper in 2013/14 and resorted to the $15k price cut and voucher.

Also think you're dead on in your second point. We will see more low milage viper come out than we all expect.

You see this a lot on Bring a Trailer, I call it the 'BaT effect.' A collector's example of a vehicle will come up for auction and bring some astronomical price. Then every Tom, Dick and Harry with the same vehicle sitting in their garage decide its time to bring their's our for sale. Instead of fetching the price of that first one, it brings a fraction. In turn, the vehicle loses its luster and people get a glimpse of how many are truly out there. This has probably always been the case, but has definitely become more mainstream since BaT. Sellers become impulsive and BaT's digital platform makes listing much more efficient than getting your car ready to go across a tradition auction block.

[RedTanRT/10]

For anyone that thinks the Ford GT was a good investment or has "gained value" doesn't know anything about money. I bought mine for $140K. Now it may be worth $280K. If you invested $140K into anything else 15 years ago and only had $280K that would be very sad and you should immediately fire your advisor Even at 6%, $140K would be $622K 15 years later. Anyone caring or talking about the value of cars as investments etc definitely don't know anything about money. I'm a total moron when it comes to money and even I can see that.

AZ, so true!

In addition, it had to also cost another $1,500 to $2,000 per year for Insurance, Registration fees and minimal maintenance.

I bought my '94 G1 in '96 for $41k, I figure its worth a real $30k today, do the math on that one!!!! Buy em and drive em cause you love them!!

[Arizona Vipers]

AZ, so true!

In addition, it had to also cost another $1,500 to $2,000 per year for Insurance, Registration fees and minimal maintenance.

I bought my '94 G1 in '96 for $41k, I figure its worth a real $30k today, do the math on that one!!!! Buy em and drive em cause you love them!!

Yep. And that $622K would be 1.8M in another 10 years LOL. My GT will be worth maybe $400K. lmao

[Cadster]

Quick non-value related tech question, do these Woodhouse special edition versions come with the extreme front splitter as part of the original package? The mega splitter that has the two individual attachments that protrude out of the front lower grill?

[ViperJon]

Quick non-value related tech question, do these Woodhouse special edition versions come with the extreme front splitter as part of the original package? The mega splitter that has the two individual attachments that protrude out of the front lower grill?

Yes they do. They are all ACR-E trims. Some Special Editions have more options (like exterior CF) than others but they all have the Extreme slitter.

[ACRSNK]

Yes they do. They are all ACR-E trims. Some Special Editions have more options (like exterior CF) than others but they all have the Extreme slitter.

All except the one Snake Skin Edition that is a non ACR model.

[Policy Limits]

My front splitter extension and rear diffuser strake extensions are still in bubble rap. Ideal to install if you track it. I have a steep driveway as it is and had race ramps custom design ramps for it.

The 6 Authentic SE cars also came with matching car covers. Did the ACR/TA too or nah? #STICKERGATE

[ViperGeorge]

My front splitter extension and rear diffuser strake extensions are still in bubble rap. Ideal to install if you track it. I have a steep driveway as it is and had race ramps custom design ramps for it.

The 6 Authentic SE cars also came with matching car covers. Did the ACR/TA too or nah? #STICKERGATE

Of course you realize that if you put your splitter extension on your car could no longer be considered a dealer special edition since the factory did not put the splitter on. Splittergate!

And yes my ACR/TA came with an orange car cover.

[ACRSNK]

Splittergate lol

[ViperJon]

All except the one Snake Skin Edition that is a non ACR model.

I stand corrected forgot about “that” one. What were they thinking with that model anyway lol.....non ACR-E and those fang stripes.

[ViperSRT]

I stand corrected forgot about “that” one. What were they thinking with that model anyway lol.....non ACR-E and those fang stripes.

Yes, what were they thinking. A non ACR-E. Must be only stupid people would ever want a non ACR-E!

[ViperJon]

Yes, what were they thinking. A non ACR-E. Must be only stupid people would ever want a non ACR-E!

As a final run limited numbered edition showcasing the height of Viper development? Absolutely....bad choice. Commemorates absolutely nothing.
All the others are a homage to something in Viper history maybe somewhat tenuously but still. It was a money grab when they saw final editions were selling out.
You are very insecure.

[ViperSRT]

No Jon you are being stupid. Thinking that the ACR-E is the ONLY desirable version of the Viper (thus telling fellow Viper owners that purchased something other than an ACR-E what you think of them). And commemorates??? What exactly does the dealer edition commemorate? Or the snakeskin green ACR? As far as I can tell only the 1:28 commemorates something (track records). The GTS-R only shares color choice with the GT2, which did indeed commemorate the GT2 championship. And they dared to make one SE that wasn't up to your standards (i.e. ACR-E) purely for money. The horror of a company making something for money.

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ Agree that a non-ACR SE was not a terrible idea. There are plenty of people who might have wanted a final year SE car but not necessarily have to drive around with that ridiculous wing on it. And, I too had forgotten about that model. But its scarcity might be the dark horse future collector -- the only non-ACR SE, done in great colors (although I too do not like the fang stripes -- and that would have been the deal killer for me), and in small numbers. Can't recall seeing them photographed in the wild (i.e. not in my IG feed).

[ViperJon]

No Jon you are being stupid. Thinking that the ACR-E is the ONLY desirable version of the Viper (thus telling fellow Viper owners that purchased something other than an ACR-E what you think of them). .

Yeah nice attempt to twist what I wrote to fit your gross insecurities about you car choice. We were discussing SPECIAL EDITION numbered models not Vipers in general. One would expect them to showcase the pinnacle of Viper development wouldn't you? Not some GTS version. There's nothing wrong with those OBVIOUSLY but despite your own personal hurt feelings the ACR-E IS the pinnacle of Viper development. Sorry...It just is.

[ViperSRT]

Gross insecurities. Now please take your oversized head out of your enthusiast (i.e. non contributor) a$$.

[Bruce H.]

^^^ Agree that a non-ACR SE was not a terrible idea. There are plenty of people who might have wanted a final year SE car but not necessarily have to drive around with that ridiculous wing on it. And, I too had forgotten about that model. But its scarcity might be the dark horse future collector -- the only non-ACR SE, done in great colors (although I too do not like the fang stripes -- and that would have been the deal killer for me), and in small numbers. Can't recall seeing them photographed in the wild (i.e. not in my IG feed).

If I had been looking to buy a final year car this is the one that actually appealed to me the most. Large wings just aren't for me, regardless of make or model, and the Viper body is so elegant with just the advanced aero lip on the hatch. If anyone didn't know it the stripe on this non-ACR SSG car was actually all painted snake scales which I thought was very cool as opposed to a solid color painted stripe.

It was added as an additional SE, and I also thought it was in response to the others selling out so quickly. But of course the purpose of all SE's was to maximize sales and give the Viper faithful something special... and every one did. They could have made every '17 a special edition and it wouldn't have bothered me. They made "special" the norm when they introduced the 1 of 1 program long before...and did so effectively that many argue whether a numbered limited edition, factory SE, dealer SE, "real" ACR-E lol, track record color scheme painted car, or many of the 1 of 1's are the most desirable.

What's always surprised me is how many passionate and proud owners chose their ultimately special Viper only to sell it within a year or two, often to buy their new idea of an ultimately special Viper...and then sell it as well. I thought more owners would have kept them forever, adding to their collection if they had one. Never really made sense to me.

[Cadster]

So after watching this auction, and seeing how far it ran up, and then for it to not sell at that final price (after a buyers fee, the final cost would have been $187,000), I went ahead and decided to buy the twin from BJ’s. I had bought a Ford GT from Bernie in early March (sadly, I might have been his last car deal, RIP Bernie), and had negotiated on this Viper at that time. I tried to hold off, as I didn’t really need another COVID acquisition, but the pull was too strong, and this auction kind of finished me off. I am super pumped. My transporter is picking it up this morning and it will be here tomorrow morning. I will do a full write up in another post at some point.

By the way, Bernie’s wife Graciela handled my transaction. She is a very sweet lady and the service she provided was superb. Buy with confidence from BJ’s.

https://www.bjmotors.biz/2017-dodge-viper-acr-extreme-c-13618.htm

[CarbonDan]

So after watching this auction, and seeing how far it ran up, and then for it to not sell at that final price (after a buyers fee, the final cost would have been $187,000), I went ahead and decided to buy the twin from BJ’s. I had bought a Ford GT from Bernie in early March (sadly, I might have been his last car deal, RIP Bernie), and had negotiated on this Viper at that time. I tried to hold off, as I didn’t really need another COVID acquisition, but the pull was too strong, and this auction kind of finished me off. I am super pumped. My transporter is picking it up this morning and it will be here tomorrow morning. I will do a full write up in another post at some point.

By the way, Bernie’s wife Graciela handled my transaction. She is a very sweet lady and the service she provided was superb. Buy with confidence from BJ’s.

https://www.bjmotors.biz/2017-dodge-viper-acr-extreme-c-13618.htm

Congrats!

[Bruce H.]

Nicely done...congrats!

[sharmut]

Congrats indeed. Always lust over that color in an ACR trim. Can I interest you in a comp blue.

[swexlin]

Very nice congrats. I bought my 2003 Viper from Bernie 10 years ago, but when I went to pick up the car in Virginia, it was indeed Graciela who handled the transaction. Very nice woman.

[Cadster]

Very nice congrats. I bought my 2003 Viper from Bernie 10 years ago, but when I went to pick up the car in Virginia, it was indeed Graciela who handled the transaction. Very nice woman.

Total sweetheart. My heart breaks for her. Married 30 years... Never met Bernie, but everyone I talked to that knew him, said he had the appearance of a man 10 years younger.

[ViperGeorge]

So after watching this auction, and seeing how far it ran up, and then for it to not sell at that final price (after a buyers fee, the final cost would have been $187,000), I went ahead and decided to buy the twin from BJ’s. I had bought a Ford GT from Bernie in early March (sadly, I might have been his last car deal, RIP Bernie), and had negotiated on this Viper at that time. I tried to hold off, as I didn’t really need another COVID acquisition, but the pull was too strong, and this auction kind of finished me off. I am super pumped. My transporter is picking it up this morning and it will be here tomorrow morning. I will do a full write up in another post at some point.

By the way, Bernie’s wife Graciela handled my transaction. She is a very sweet lady and the service she provided was superb. Buy with confidence from BJ’s.

https://www.bjmotors.biz/2017-dodge-viper-acr-extreme-c-13618.htm


Congrats and welcome to the ACR/TA Stickered Special Edition owners group. :stickmen_burningsti Do you plan to drive it or put it in the garage to look at?

[ViperTony]

So after watching this auction, and seeing how far it ran up, and then for it to not sell at that final price (after a buyers fee, the final cost would have been $187,000), I went ahead and decided to buy the twin from BJ’s. I had bought a Ford GT from Bernie in early March (sadly, I might have been his last car deal, RIP Bernie), and had negotiated on this Viper at that time. I tried to hold off, as I didn’t really need another COVID acquisition, but the pull was too strong, and this auction kind of finished me off. I am super pumped. My transporter is picking it up this morning and it will be here tomorrow morning. I will do a full write up in another post at some point.

By the way, Bernie’s wife Graciela handled my transaction. She is a very sweet lady and the service she provided was superb. Buy with confidence from BJ’s.

https://www.bjmotors.biz/2017-dodge-viper-acr-extreme-c-13618.htm

Congratulations and buying a real dealer/special edition!!!!!!

[Cadster]

Congrats and welcome to the ACR/TA Stickered Special Edition owners group. :stickmen_burningsti Do you plan to drive it or put it in the garage to look at?

Definitely driving it. It will be heavily featured in my driving rotation, probably 1500ish miles per year. So that will mean one less collectible status garage queen. My cars are for pleasure, not for investment. And yes, I could have saved a little dough buying a previously driven example, but this one just had my number. I would preferred to have found one with 2-4,000 miles for $20-40,000 less, but it just wasn’t meant to be. Not enough cars for sale, and not near enough patience on my end.

Being dropped off with my film guy in the morning for full PPF and ceramic coating.

43589

[Policy Limits]

Awesome! Enjoy in good health.

I love the paint and street functionality of the tires and brakes.

I do opine that it has an identity crisis of sorts though. I'm going to contact the CEO and request clarification as to whether the manufacturer added it as a 7th Special Edition Car and if so inquire as to why it didnt receive a 25th Anniversary badge like the others and inquire as to why it wasn't part of the press release regarding Special Editions

[ACRSNK]

Congrats on the ACR TA beautiful wonder why the lower mile car was ten grand less than the higher mile one they had hope you got a good deal

[Cadster]

Congrats on the ACR TA beautiful wonder why the lower mile car was ten grand less than the higher mile one they had hope you got a good deal

The higher mile one was on consignment, the 18 mile one was theirs, so they had more flexibility. The consignment car went back to the owner, and now it’s on consignment somewhere else. I’m satisfied on my deal. As is usually the case for me, I buy the car first, and the deal is a distant second.