Tom's 40mm brakes

[GhostStalker27]

Are these still available? If so, where can they be purchased? I've been searching for awhile and heard good things about these, but can't find where to buy them. Info, thoughts, and suggestions please :o

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

YES. PERFECT TIMING!!

We are working with Tom on 'ONE LAST HURRAH' of these 1992-2000 Viper kits, and have about 5 orders so far for these 40mm upgrade rear brakes.

We DO have cores available in advance, so you don't have to send your cores ahead of time.

I will know more next week!

Email me if interessssted....pricing depends a bit on number volume... JonB@PartsRack.com

[GhostStalker27]

Saweeet, email sent

[93viperboy]

I have them. My 93 stops better

[Coloviper]

First I am hearing of this package, interested as my brakes are wore out. What is this package comprised of?

[99RT10]

First I am hearing of this package, interested as my brakes are wore out. What is this package comprised of?

REAR BRAKE CALIPERS ARE MODIFIED TO 40MM FROM 36MM. You choose your desired pad(ECB Reds or Brakeman 3's are a good choice).

[Fatboy 18]

First I am hearing of this package, interested as my brakes are wore out. What is this package comprised of?The 40mm kit balance's out the overall braking of the car :) With stock brakes its very easy to lock up the fronts and flat spot the tires (even at slow speeds) The idea is that the piston in the rear caliper is sleeved and the brake caliper is milled out to fit the bigger piston, new size rubber seals are then used. This reduces the overall stopping distance of the car and reduces front wheel lock up :) I have this kit fitted on my car and love it, You can still lock up the brakes if you hit them hard but the car is much more controlled.
This is how the car should have left the factory in the first place. ;)

Info Here :)

http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Brembo_Caliper

http://wiki.seloc.org/a/How_to_Rebuild_a_Brembo_Caliper

[GhostStalker27]

Can anyone shed light on how these compare to other brake upgrades as far as value or "bang for your buck". Do you get more for your money with these or the gen3 brake upgrade, etc?...I want to be clear I'm not simply looking for what's the best, just where my money can go the furthest - I'm a man of value :o

[Suitejudyblueyes]

Can anyone shed light on how these compare to other brake upgrades as far as value or "bang for your buck". Do you get more for your money with these or the gen3 brake upgrade, etc?..Since the Tom's approach utilizes the stock setup (including the e-brake) this would be the least expensive approach. It would be worthwhile though to investigate getting the bracket package from IPSCO that allows you to mount the front calipers at the rear. But you lose the ebrake function unless you also get the beautifully machined separate e-brake calipers (also from IPSCO). Of course more $$$, but much improved binders at the rear. And when you put the Gen 3 calipers out front, you'll have a great 4-corner package.

[Ron]

If you do a search on the VCA site, you'll find Tom's very detailed explanation of the benefit of this approach and very favorable comparisons to a more expensive Stop Tech set up.

As mentioned, F/R balance is improved significantly, meaning the rears do more of the stopping work still without locking before the fronts.

As I remember, the only limitation is that there is less mass to disperse the heat build up versus "big brakes," so on the track, while braking would be comparable, heat would become a factor a bit sooner because of the smaller OEM size caliper.

I have them and they are great. Best bang for the buck brake upgrade by far.

[CottonMouth]

Any update on this? Has the "last hurrah" for these already passed?

[EdGTS]

I just saw this when cottonmouth woke this thread back up. I'd definitely be interested in this option.

[mavrck203]

Check with Jon B @ Parts Rack, he is working with Tom on this, per email with Tom, he was projecting first batch shipping mid-May. Jon B would know for sure.

[Tom, F&L GoR]

Jon, give me a call. Ready.

[CottonMouth]

Was a price ever established? I emailed Jon about it and was told that it would depend on the number of people who went in on the deal. I'm still interested in a set.....

[95Viper]

mine arrived today,,,, my next winter time project.... thanks Tom.... envelope in the mail tomorrow

[Hwy2h3ll]

Just had Chuck Tator install tom's rear calipers and p/s pulley with bracket on my gts. Call chuck for the rear calipers.

[GTS Warp]

Resurrecting this thread to see if anybody has a pair of Tom's 40mm brakes! Hit me up...

[99RT10]

Call Chuck Tator at 914-763-3136. He has a set.

[GTS Warp]

Just left him a message thanks!

[95Viper]

gone.....

[GTS Warp]

.... in about 2 weeks I will be selling..... original front calipers, hawk pads front & rear, EBC slotted & dimpled rotors front & rear along with a set of Tom's calipers,,,, toms calipers have approx. 500miles on them, rear pads come with tom's caliper cover as well.... would like to sell it as a set... all is in Xcellent condition and works perfectly...... if anyone is interested contact me and lets see if we can make a deal... thx

I'm mainly looking for Tom's calipers but might be interested in the rotors too...I'll pm you

[Hathoway]

The fact that these can no longer be obtained makes me sad...

[stuntman]

Jon B doesn't have anymore?

[Hathoway]

Jon B doesn't have anymore?

I've looked around partsrack and found nothing of the sort, although I have not called or inquired.

[MCG]

The fact that these can no longer be obtained makes me sad...

Yeah, me too. I could probably use a set for my '97 GTS

[AZTVR]

I've looked around partsrack and found nothing of the sort, although I have not called or inquired.

Jon does not have a staff of folks to put everything onto his web site and keep it up to date. Don't count on the website to reflect all of what he can provide. If you need something, ask him.

[GTS Dean]

I spoke to Tom recently about rebuilding a set I've had for a number of years. He was not inclined to do so due to his current employment status. He said the brake thing was a labor of love and a service to the Viper community that he was happy to do when he had time and there was an acute shortage of effective alternatives. Not so now.

I too, am sad.

[MacGyvers Mullet]

Would anyone know what it would take to have someone else do this for us? For instance, a local expert machinist in any given city that we live in?

Is the most difficult part being boring the caliper out from 36mm to 40mm? From there just a correct sized piston and seals? Or is much more involved than that?

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Jon does not have a staff of folks to put everything onto his web site and keep it up to date. Don't count on the website to reflect all of what he can provide. If you need something, ask him.


I think we have 2 sets remaining. Email me JonB@PartsRack.com $895/pair core exchanged.

[GTS Dean]

Would anyone know what it would take to have someone else do this for us?

Or is much more involved than that?

The machine work is pretty straightforward. It's the disassembly and reassembly of the self-adjuster that takes practice and some talent.

[Rosie]

Anyone needing a set of the 40 mm rear calipers for gen 1+2,Chuck Tator has two sets in stock as of today 8/12/16,I think they cost 850. and you must send the old cores back to Chuck or pay 300. to keep them,a great up-grade for the non-ABS cars,makes the braking much more balanced you`ll definetly notice the difference,also the SS brake lines is a good option too,these cars are getting to be 20 years old ;Tator`s Garage#914 763-9507.Rusty.

[Rosie]

Correct phone #914-763-3136 Tator`s Garage,good luck.

[MrCreosote]

What do you use for maintenance parts? Seals, boots, pistons?

[Fatboy 18]

It's all available.

This is just one company in the UK that supplies parts
http://www.biggred.co.uk/

https://wiki.seloc.org/a/How_to_Rebuild_a_Brembo_Caliper

https://wiki.seloc.org/a/Brembo_Caliper

https://www.elise-shop.com/rear-caliper-overhaul-kit-elise-exige-340r-all-models-p-642.html?zenid=3ofgdstc6lbtqmpdidrqofgan3

[FlashFyre]

What do you use for maintenance parts? Seals, boots, pistons?

A fellow named Rick is still doing the 40mm mod. He took over from Tom. Lives near Toronto, Canada.

[MrCreosote]

Thanks, looks good.

Didn't know about these until about 12 hours ago - have a used set coming w/fronts all red. Car is 96 GTS black w/red stripes and black chrome wheels. Frankly part of the purchase is that they are red, LOL

Read interesting bit about these: great on street, but the rears fade first on track implying this is a bad thing - I would think the opposite: Stock: If fronts gone, you stand on brakes hard, rear locks up, ass may come around, bad. Rear fade first, ass stays planted, should be just what you want on track, right?

[GTS Dean]

I experimented a lot with incremental fluid, pad compound, brake bias and rear piston diameter before coming up with what I've run for 20 years with a lot of track time and road miles under my belt. I pulled the nut off the rear proportioning section of the combination valve and removed the proportioning spring, then screwed the cap back on and did a full bleed. Braking improved noticeably. I then went to the 40mm kit and found that I could get them to actually make enough temperature to experiment with pads again.

If most of your driving is street, a matched set of pads is not a bad thing because you will likely never experience the dynamics and temperatures of track driving.

What I like is a rear pad that has really good initial bite, medium torque and not too much increase with temperature. I like fronts that modulate really well with progressive temp increase and good release properties to combat front lockup. Having the rears less sensitive to pressure and a slower release helps the back end be more predictable with trail braking. When weight transfers to the front, you don't want too grippy a back pad or you may loop it. If you have adjustable shocks, adding a little more rear rebound and front bump stiffness will give you better initial weight transfer control under braking to use the rear performance improvement.

[MrCreosote]

Thanks Dean for the info.

I doubt that I will ever track the car but I do confess I am a lunatic trail braker. I had a 93 Formula Firebird at Nelson Ledges and it understeered beyond words (98 Z28 Camaro DID NOT!). It just kept killing the front tires at the sharp right hand before the straightaway. So I kept diving deeper and more trail braking. It was getting ridiculous. I finally got up to enough speed that it was going to work and I got LATERAL WHEEL HOP. I never knew such a thing existed - felt like I was going to break the car into pieces. So I just chilled and drove the way the car liked it.

[TTSnake]

Who should we contact to get a set of these?

[AviP]

Who should we contact to get a set of these?

Try Rick Shaefer. His email is ricks40mm at hotmail dot com. I'm not sure he is still doing this. The upgrade is a definite positive. It reduces that front dive as well as the stopping distance by 20-30 ft.

[40mm]

Try Rick Shaefer. His email is ricks40mm at hotmail dot com. I'm not sure he is still doing this. The upgrade is a definite positive. It reduces that front dive as well as the stopping distance by 20-30 ft.

Yes I am still doing these.
Email above is correct. Thanks!

[MrCreosote]

Hum, more thoughts on this:

I have a 96 GTS w/18's. I want to get Gen 5's (being a hard head, I want the 1/2" wider fronts) which means 19" rears.

I believe the 19" are 1.5 " larger in diameter, 3/4" on the radius.

For a given pedal effort w/18's, the rear calipers are going to be applying the same braking torque but the force at the pavement will be less because the 19's are taller.

This reduced force is 12/12.75 = 0.94 or a 6% reduction in braking.

So the 23% increase from the 40mm's will be reduced: 1.23 * 0.94 = 1.16 to a 16% increase.

So for a given pedal force with the 40's and 18's, the change to 19's will result in less vehicle braking.

To get the same vehicle braking, additional pedal force will be required which will put more load on the 40's which will make them run hotter and fade sooner.

On the positive side, stock rears AND 19's will really put the car out of balance - even worse than stock. So the 40's will help with the balance. Would Porsche air deflectors work in the rear? that would be a cheap cooling solution.

One thing is for certain, the 19's will produce more braking force at lockup, so that is in the good direction.

Are my calculations good? does this make sense?

[TTSnake]

Would I be able to do this for just the fronts? Or will that throw off the balance? I kinda don't want to grind off the rear ear tabs.

[Fatboy 18]

I will throw this into the mix which is what I have done on my Gen II

https://www.flickr.com/photos/90582394@N02/albums/72157632214538274


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A0WiPFEsRw&list=FLi6VyHJ77lXMDcImq3lcgWA&index=56

[goggles Pizano]

What do you mean by just doing the front? What do you want to the fronts?

[MrCreosote]

I think he is wondering if he can do bigger fronts and NOT cut up the rear spindle.

[MrCreosote]

It occurred to me that brake balance calculators are likely online already.

And YES they are:

https://brakepower.com/

https://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/bias-calculator/

...now I'm off to find a tire friction calculator: effect of diameter, width, sidewall on coef of friction. This will be a lot trickier but one might argue that the contact patch is proportional to diameter but I suspect it is some power rule since a 48" tractor tire has more than twice the pull of a 24" one. EDIT: Good Grief, the tire calculators are Sick - like Slip Angle is an input! LOL

[TTSnake]

I think he is wondering if he can do bigger fronts and NOT cut up the rear spindle.

Yes, that's right. I just want to upgrade the front brakes and not change the rears.

[goggles Pizano]

Yes, that's right. I just want to upgrade the front brakes and not change the rears.

Not a good idea. You will basically just have front brakes

[Fatboy 18]

I found prior to fitting the 40mm rear calipers the braking on a gen 2 seemed to be 70/30 to the front. I got fed up with locking the front brakes under medium hard braking.
1st mod I did was to fit stainless brake lines. I did not notice any difference but it seemed a sensible mod over the stock lines, next was to fit the 40mm upgrade.

Having fitted the 40mm brakes it changed the balance of the car to 60/40 to the front, I could still lock the brakes but also the rears were now making a big difference. So for street driving they are perfect.

Brake fade at track events was another story. I found after a few laps that sometimes my brake pedal would go to the floor due to the fluid overheating, at the time I had the OEM fluid in the car. I then swapped that out to Motul 660 brake fluid and also spent some considerable time making / fitting the fluid recycle system for the front brakes. Since doing that I no longer get any issues with brake fade and have now dropped form Motul 660 fluid to 600. Note I am using Baer 13" 2 piece slotted rotors.

If I was starting over from scratch, I think I would go to larger rotors Gen 3 calipers, Gen 2 front calipers on rear and the parking brake kit (but its not cheap and is relative to your budget). upgrade the brake fluid to Motul 600, but my car came fitted with the Baer 2 piece rotors so I just continued to upgrade what I had over time when cash allowed.

Below is a pic of my car with pretty much full lock up (running Toyo R888s) turning right and drifting slightly sideways into Hammerhead on the UK Top Gear track 2 up, and was braking from 150mph fast (in a sprint event, I left the braking right until I hit 150mph in a headwind and was running out of runway fast!). The thing is, no brake fade and I felt confident in what I was doing. From experience I certainly cant say that about the stock brakes I would have been off the end of the runway and probably into the next 2 fields! :smilielol: The sticky tires helped me get round that bend too ;)

https://live.staticflickr.com/8539/29044385600_456c42d088_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/8437/29223772872_4f578e0c07_b.jpg

[MrCreosote]

Not a good idea. You will basically just have front brakes

Didn't one of the front upgrades have smaller diameter pistons?

[TTSnake]

Not a good idea. You will basically just have front brakes

So I can't balance the system with a proportioning valve?

[Fatboy 18]

Didn't one of the front upgrades have smaller diameter pistons?

No.

[GTS Dean]

Just removing the spring from the OE prop valve will give you a significant improvement in performance for ZERO dollars other than fluid bleed. I've done that AND gone to the 40mm caliper mod and STILL have OE front calipers. I have something like SIX THOUSAND track miles on my car.

[MrCreosote]

Only if you have extra rear braking. You only put the Pvalve on the rears. If you don't have enough rear, then the pvalve isn't going to fix that.

[MrCreosote]

I experimented a lot with incremental fluid, pad compound, brake bias and rear piston diameter before coming up with what I've run for 20 years with a lot of track time and road miles under my belt. I pulled the nut off the rear proportioning section of the combination valve and removed the proportioning spring, then screwed the cap back on and did a full bleed. Braking improved noticeably. I then went to the 40mm kit and found that I could get them to actually make enough temperature to experiment with pads again.

If most of your driving is street, a matched set of pads is not a bad thing because you will likely never experience the dynamics and temperatures of track driving.

What I like is a rear pad that has really good initial bite, medium torque and not too much increase with temperature. I like fronts that modulate really well with progressive temp increase and good release properties to combat front lockup. Having the rears less sensitive to pressure and a slower release helps the back end be more predictable with trail braking. When weight transfers to the front, you don't want too grippy a back pad or you may loop it. If you have adjustable shocks, adding a little more rear rebound and front bump stiffness will give you better initial weight transfer control under braking to use the rear performance improvement.

I know absolutely nothing about picking out pads. I know I don't want fade and I know race pads don't work until they get nice an toasty. I'm trying to remember, but I think I have EBC Greens in my 96 GTS (should probably be Reds). With Tom's which I just got and stock fronts, what would you recommend in pads? EBC good enough? Mixed colors maybe?

Thanks,
Tom

NOTE: I've done a little track time, maybe 10 days total and doubt I'll do any more. A day's shifter kart class in FL changed me - on the way home, I was drifting my $72k 2000 GTS (most I ever spent on a car was $7k at that time), that I had driven to FL during a snow storm from Pittsburgh starting with 90 miles on it, around a 270* rte 826 on ramp in North Miami Beach, beating on it like a rented mule. Doug Levin told me about the class and I ended up staying in FL 9 weeks instead of 2. Bike Week was awesome as well as Sebring. Sebring is whole other story.

[TTSnake]

Just removing the spring from the OE prop valve will give you a significant improvement in performance for ZERO dollars other than fluid bleed. I've done that AND gone to the 40mm caliper mod and STILL have OE front calipers. I have something like SIX THOUSAND track miles on my car.

You mean that annoying high compression spring that makes it impossible to reinstall the valve stem?

[goggles Pizano]

On the road so all I can do is this. you remove the hex bolt and remove the spring inside.

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