Tires and Brakes

[ViperPete]

I'm gonna be driving my car at Homestead during NVE4. Never had the Viper on any tracks other than drag racing. I've done some SCCA events in the past and lots of karting. I want to replace my tires and brakes for the event. I was thinking R888R's for tires but don't know much about whats available for brakes.

I was thinking some slotted rotors and some decent pads and a brake fluid change. Not looking to set any lap records. Just explore what the car can do. I definitely don't want to go on the track with the brakes that came from the factory that has 20k miles on them.
Thanks for your advice.

[ViperGeorge]

I'm gonna be driving my car at Homestead during NVE4. Never had the Viper on any tracks other than drag racing. I've done some SCCA events in the past and lots of karting. I want to replace my tires and brakes for the event. I was thinking R888R's for tires but don't know much about whats available for brakes.

I was thinking some slotted rotors and some decent pads and a brake fluid change. Not looking to set any lap records. Just explore what the car can do. I definitely don't want to go on the track with the brakes that came from the factory that has 20k miles on them.
Thanks for your advice.

If this is your first time on track with the Viper, stock pads will be just fine. If you have a lot of track experience in other high HP cars then I would use Raybestos R45s in front and R43s in rear. They need to be properly bedded in though. (10 hard stops from 60-10mph, drive 20 minutes without hitting brakes too much, then 10 stops 100-10mph, then drive another 20 minutes. Smoke from the brakes is normal.)

I would change the brake fluid to either Motul 600 or Castrol. Motul is cheaper by a lot but most people say that the Castrol stuff is better. I change the fluid often enough that I don't worry about the slight advantage that Castrol may offer, I use Motul. From all indications the R888R tires should be great. To properly flush the system you need a dealer computer to activate the ABS system. Mine has been bled enough that I typically don't worry about that although I usually do have the dealer flush it once a year or so with the computer.

[Bryan Savage]

Pete, these cars are built to run at the track all day. There's no need whatsoever to change anything about your brakes, as long as you have enough meat in the pads. Twenty thousand miles is nothing.

[Bruce H.]

I'd start by getting some initial track seat time in your Viper before heading to Homestead to explore what the car can do. I'm thinking the type of rotor might not be the limiting factor here ;)

[One Viper Bite]

Pete, I have a lot of track time in various race cars, supercars, and shifter karts and I was fine on stock P-Zeros and stock brake pads the first time I tracked my Gen V. I would advise against using a sticky tire like the R888Rs. I found that the stock P-Zeros were more than enough for me to explore the limits of the car and get comfortable at the limit before moving onto a stickier tire. I have slotted 2 pieces from the factory so I can't speak to how the solid rotors will hold up but it really depends on your experience and how hard you're pushing.

In any case, if it's your first time tracking a Viper, I think you're perfectly ok with the stock pads and tires and I think it is actually more beneficial for getting to know the car and the limits.

[txA&M08]

I'm going to stray from the popular opinion and say you should definitely swap out pads. I easily faded my stock pads the first and only time I went out on them. That day I had R888s and freshly bled Motul in the system. The pads were the weakest link.

So my recommendation for first time out would be R888Rs, Raybestos ST43, and Castrol SRF (or Motul). I doubt there's any need to worry about the rotors, though. Worst case if you do all this is that it was overkill and you didn't need that much headroom.

[No hemi]

Good to know al this, although I've been known to push my car a bit (TOD #Bat $h!t crazy group) and pulled 1.5 g's going up there on my car I haven't done much track events other than a couple autocrosses and drag racing, I still have stock pads and rotors and was going with TA pads and rotors( already home) but checked my pads and are about 60 -70% left and rotors even though one piece look pretty good so I decided to keep the originals for NVE4, we'll see how much abuse they can take.:bth_smiley_formula1:icon_devil:

[cubeman]

Total of 27k miles driving plus track days before i suffered some bad brake fade/stopping loss.

Just an FYI, OEM Rotors are non-existent as pads at this point. If you want two piece I believe there are still national inventory of them but at $800 a pop you might as well go to stop-tech directly. I literally got replacement fronts for like $300 bucks (pads+Rotors) through RockAuto for my steel 1 pc's. OEM was $500 and discount put at $400 but had to wait 6+ months apparently for them. I did a track day on my Rockauto Rebeyesto / Powerstop combo and felt no difference on the track. Eventually I'll pony up and go big brake kit when I drop the dollars for H&C.

[sharmut]

@ViperPete If your existing brake pad thickness is 50% or below, change them. ST43 are great pads for their thermal capacity and cost. Replace brake fluid with Motul or Castrol with a full bleed. As for tires, if the existing tires have enough rubber with no signs of cracking use them. If it was me, if the tire age is over 4 years, I would not risk the time you invested in the trip and change them.

[Larryskillzs]

Do not use your stock pads, period.

It takes 2 laps to fade the stock pad.

Castrol SRF over Motul 600. You are tracking a 645 hp Viper. Buy the best brake fluid around. It’s superior to Motul 600.

Go with a ST43 rear/ST 47 front setup from Raybestos or XP10 rear/XP20 front from Carbotech.

I went 3-4 track days with a stock pad and I might as well spent the money by throwing it into my fireplace.

There’s nothing more miserable braking 3x earlier than you should have to on track. It’s self defeating.

[ViperGeorge]

Do not use your stock pads, period.

It takes 2 laps to fade the stock pad.

Castrol SRF over Motul 600. You are tracking a 645 hp Viper. Buy the best brake fluid around. It’s superior to Motul 600.

Go with a ST43 rear/ST 47 front setup from Raybestos or XP10 rear/XP20 front from Carbotech.

I went 3-4 track days with a stock pad and I might as well spent the money by throwing it into my fireplace.

There’s nothing more miserable braking 3x earlier than you should have to on track. It’s self defeating.

I suspect with little to no track experience he will be braking early anyway. I ran stock pads on my GTS at the VOA Vegas event (and I have 20+ years of tracking) and never felt the pads fade. The track guy yelled at some of us for being too aggressive. We were in the Red group and told him he and the track workers didn't know what they were talking about. Corner workers were waving yellow and red flags together, and other combinations that didn't make any sense. I hope the Miami corner workers will be better trained. By the way, my GTS had 15000 miles on the brakes and tires at the time.

[serpent]

Do not use your stock pads, period.

It takes 2 laps to fade the stock pad.

Castrol SRF over Motul 600. You are tracking a 645 hp Viper. Buy the best brake fluid around. It’s superior to Motul 600.

Go with a ST43 rear/ST 47 front setup from Raybestos or XP10 rear/XP20 front from Carbotech.

I went 3-4 track days with a stock pad and I might as well spent the money by throwing it into my fireplace.

There’s nothing more miserable braking 3x earlier than you should have to on track. It’s self defeating.
I had nearly the same experience, except i had motul 600 and had brake fade by the middle of my 2nd session at laguna seca (2017). For me it was the shitty tire and brake pads weren't up to snuff. The remaining 3 other sessions i was worried id end up in the sand. pzeros are also crap too, anyone that says their okay must be driving super slow. I dont give a damn if you've driven shifter karts, I have driven shifter karts too (85cc, 125cc stock moto and 125cc ICC class) on a road course in sonoma and laguna seca. It doesnt mean shit compared to these cars on street tires weighing over 3500+lbs with a driver. LOL

Anyways, tires first, then upgrade brake fluid and pads for sure. My pzero grips were only from 2013 (did track day in 2017) and the bead breaking machine that breaks the bead at the tire place broke all 4 side walls trying to remove them. I wanted to resell the junk tires for someone that just needed a set for mounting.

[Arizona Vipers]

Castrol SRF and you'll be fine on the stock pads imo. You'd have to be extremely fast and on super sticky tires to fade them. In 2013 the magazines ran some very fast lap times in these cars with stock pads, including Laguna Seca. Don't show up to any track event without fresh brand new brake fluid.

[Special Ed]

I have two sets of factory TA two piece rotors available $1600 + shipping for the complete set.

[Arizona Vipers]

I have two sets of factory TA two piece rotors available $1600 + shipping for the complete set.

ViperPete, if you really are worried about it and want piece of mine this is the way to go if they work with the factory calipers you have

[Pappy]

I'm hearing Castrol SRF is out of stock world-wide and they don't know when it will be available again. Anybody tried to buy any lately. It's too bad AP Racing doesn't make a brake package for the Gen V. I just got a set for my "try to keep up with Cable - if you can't out-power him try to out-brake him" car. Nice looking pieces.

Pappy

4178641787

[sharmut]

@pappy I tried to convince Essex Parts (AP Racing partner) to build a Gen V T/A and ACR-E package a couple years back. While they expressed interest, we could not locate a ACR owner in the North Carolina area to leave their vehicle there to build a set. If we can get enough parties interested and an ACR-E owner to leave their vehicle there, I can reach out to them again to revisit the topic.

[ViperTony]

I'm hearing Castrol SRF is out of stock world-wide and they don't know when it will be available again. Anybody tried to buy any lately. It's too bad AP Racing doesn't make a brake package for the Gen V. I just got a set for my "try to keep up with Cable - if you can't out-power him try to out-brake him" car. Nice looking pieces.

Pappy

Amazon if you don't mind paying $85+ a bottle.

[IHOP]

I have tracked a Gen V with 20k on it may 20 track days with stock pads, factory 2 piece rotors on hoosiers. But I did change the brake fluid!

[Whitey]

Beautiful Pappy. Would love to get your thoughts on these.

[RCVIPER]

I'm hearing Castrol SRF is out of stock world-wide and they don't know when it will be available again. Anybody tried to buy any lately. It's too bad AP Racing doesn't make a brake package for the Gen V. I just got a set for my "try to keep up with Cable - if you can't out-power him try to out-brake him" car. Nice looking pieces.

Pappy

4178641787

I've got just the rotor's on mine, and so far they're working great!!

41791

[sadil]

I've got just the rotor's on mine, and so far they're working great!!

41791

OMG OHLINS, how do you like them?

[Tay]

You can get AP Racing J-hook rotors here: https://www.essexparts.com/my-vehicle/2013/Dodge/Viper/SRT%20Viper

And as others have said Raybestos ST43 rear/ST 47 front with Castrol SRF fluid. If you are having trouble finding the Castrol SRF, get Endless RF650 or Brembo HTC 64T. You can skip Motul for brake fluid.

I would also recommend stainless steel brake lines: https://tkomotorsports.com/product/3rd-4th-5th-gen-viper-racing-brake-line-kit-with-heat-shielding/

In addition brakes, I would switch to a heavier weight oil like Redline 15w50 or Motul 300V 15w50 and some Baer (ARP) wheel studs with forged steel lug nuts: https://www.jegs.com/i/Baer-Brake/136/6280011/10002/-1

I would definitely recommend the R888R for the track. However, since its your first time taking your Viper to the track, I would initially stick to the stock tires as the R888R's may hide your mistakes.

Good luck!

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

What He Said...... YOUR CURRENT LIMITS are lower than the car's, as-is. You'll be taking it easy, not racing.

Generally, Sticky tires require upgraded pads for intermediate-advanced track use.....

Novice? Not so much....



Pete, these cars are built to run at the track all day. There's no need whatsoever to change anything about your brakes, as long as you have enough meat in the pads. Twenty thousand miles is nothing.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

PartsRack has 2pc, slotted, Track-Pack, lightweight, Aero-rotors on sale, $1595 ALL FOUR. Same rotor that helped set 11+ Viper track records in USA and abroad....

This was an OE Factory Option rotor in G4-5, also fits G3. MSRP over $3400!!!

Email JonB@PartsRack.com

Tire and Pad options too.........




Total of 27k miles driving plus track days before i suffered some bad brake fade/stopping loss.

Just an FYI, OEM Rotors are non-existent as pads at this point. If you want two piece I believe there are still national inventory of them but at $800 a pop you might as well go to stop-tech directly. I literally got replacement fronts for like $300 bucks (pads+Rotors) through RockAuto for my steel 1 pc's. OEM was $500 and discount put at $400 but had to wait 6+ months apparently for them. I did a track day on my Rockauto Rebeyesto / Powerstop combo and felt no difference on the track. Eventually I'll pony up and go big brake kit when I drop the dollars for H&C.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I have two sets of factory TA two piece rotors available $1600 + shipping for the complete set.


Two sets.....Is a 'set' 4 rotors, or 2 rotors? If all 4, and new , that is a great deal.

[SLP]

PartsRack has 2pc, slotted, Track-Pack, lightweight, Aero-rotors on sale, $1595 ALL FOUR. Same rotor that helped set 11+ Viper track records in USA and abroad

What's the difference between the TA rotors and these?

[sharmut]

@SLP The TA & Aero-rotors have the same overall diameter. Where they differ is the radial depth(annulus) of the disc. The TA version uses a smaller hat with a larger disc, which helps to dissipate heat. If you don't track the car at a road course I don't see why you would want to add more unsprung weight.

[Special Ed]

Two sets.....Is a 'set' 4 rotors, or 2 rotors? If all 4, and new , that is a great deal.

It's all 4.

[ViperPete]

Wow thanks for all the great advice guys.
So I think this is what i'm gonna do...

I need better tires anyway so i'm gonna get a set of R888R's. Spins the tires way too much with the stock P-Zeros. And I doubt i'm going to dramatically wear out a brand new set of tires during one session.
Brake fluid change is a must also. I guess i'll go with that Castrol stuff and also have the dealer (not my local one, because they SUCK) bleed the system.
If you guys think stock pads and rotors are the way to go then i'll just do that. As mentioned by others, new stock brakes are not that expensive and have been proven to work pretty well. Definitely not interested in spending 2-3k for rotors. I'm just not that committed to racing the Viper regularly. It's taken me 5 years to get to this point of getting the car on a real road course.

I've got a 6pt harness lined up and I think i'll be good to go for the track day.

I'm a quick learner and am not afraid of the car and seriously looking forward to cornering!
I did attend a 3 day racing school at Mid-Ohio back in the day. It was great. Got a trophy and everything.

Things i'll need help with are proper driving position and to really just get a feel for the car with lots of hard braking and constant hard cornering.

[ACR Steve]

JonB is the source, not only is knowledge on the best thats available for our cars but also real time applied knowledge . He has seen it all and how it works on the road and track. Big difference then some company making false promises on how well there product works on paper.
Jon will give you the straight up answers on what works best

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Pete, can I send you a set of R888R ?

Always nicely under the TR delivered price......

Dont wait til 3-4 weeks before, last time event sold em out ! I sold almost 40 sets up to 3 weeks before, then GONE.

JonB@PartsRack.com



Wow thanks for all the great advice guys.
So I think this is what i'm gonna do...

I need better tires anyway so i'm gonna get a set of R888R's.
If you guys think stock pads and rotors are the way to go then i'll just do that. As mentioned by others, new stock brakes are not that expensive and have been proven to work pretty well. Definitely not interested in spending 2-3k for rotors. I'm just not that committed to racing the Viper regularly. It's taken me 5 years to get to this point of getting the car on a real road course.

I've got a 6pt harness lined up and I think i'll be good to go for the track day.

I'm a quick learner and am not afraid of the car and seriously looking forward to cornering!
I did attend a 3 day racing school at Mid-Ohio back in the day. It was great. Got a trophy and everything.

Things i'll need help with are proper driving position and to really just get a feel for the car with lots of hard braking and constant hard cornering.

- - - Updated - - -


JonB is the source, not only is knowledge on the best thats available for our cars but also real time applied knowledge . He has seen it all and how it works on the road and track. Big difference then some company making false promises on how well there product works on paper.
Jon will give you the straight up answers on what works best

WOW....... Made my 2020 so far, Tnx Steve. (Mr. Track Insurance)

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

It's all 4.

Ill send my next quote your way.....

[ViperPete]

Pete, can I send you a set of R888R ?

Always nicely under the TR delivered price......

Dont wait til 3-4 weeks before, last time event sold em out ! I sold almost 40 sets up to 3 weeks before, then GONE.

JonB@PartsRack.com




- - - Updated - - -



WOW....... Made my 2020 so far, Tnx Steve. (Mr. Track Insurance)

email sent jon.

[SLP]

Does anyone have any recommendations for hybrid pads that are just a bit better on the track than OEM but don't squeal or kill rotors on the street? I have some aerorotors on the way and am looking for new pads. 80% street/20% track driving. I have seen a lot of recommendations for street or track pads but not any for hybrid besides OEM.

[ACR Steve]

Call Jon no one knows more about pads on our car then him

[ViperGeorge]

Call Jon no one knows more about pads on our car then him

True, Jon is a great font of knowledge

Just an FYI. I recently changed pads on my wife's GC SRT because the OEM pads are the worst dusting pads I have ever seen. They will literally dust the wheel in 10 minutes of driving or less. I put on a set of "high performance" non-track pads which were supposed to be quiet and very low dust. I greased the backing plates with high temp grease and the suckers still squealed. It drove my wife crazy. I ended up replacing them with a cheap set of Wagner Semi-Metallic from the auto parts store. Silence is golden. Happy wife, happy life. I would NOT use the pads on the track on a bet though.

My guess is that you will be hard pressed to find a better all around pad (mostly street, some track) for the Viper than the OEM one.