Searching for a Gen V

[Cheme1985]

I finally decided I want to upgrade from my Gen III to a Gen V. I’m looking on autotrader, cargurus, and eBay. If anyone has any not listed publicly then please DM with the details.

I’m local to the Houston area. PPI is a must at by Morgan at Viper Exchange in tomball. I will consider Dallas and Austin area cars as well, but will need help with a viper tech for the PPI. Cars farther away will be considered, but the logistics headache will make things more difficult.

I’m looking for a base. No ACR’s or TA’s.

Title: no salvage titles or cars with accident history.

Exterior: all color combos will be considered.

Interior: all interiors considered except the peanut butter leather. Not a fan.

Mods: light mods such as exhaust are ok. Heavy mods aren’t ruled out, but will depend greatly on mod type, who did the work, and supporting documentation.

Shoot me an email at Roy.devinc@gmail.com

Thanks!

[IHOP]

I have my 13 White GTS with black stripes on here and auto trader it fits wha you are looking for. And is a great car

[USAFPILOT]

I was at VE the other day and they had a Solid black GT in there with TA aero and Brakes in it. You might check it out. They also have a Stryker Red GTS.

[uvbnbit]

are you on any of the VOA (or other Viper) FB pages? there's always some popping up there

[Cheme1985]

That Stryker is more than I want to spend. I’m not looking for a garage queen because I’m not going to treat her that way. She’ll see miles like my current one.

Weren’t you selling yours a while back? What made you decide to keep it?


I was at VE the other day and they had a Solid black GT in there with TA aero and Brakes in it. You might check it out. They also have a Stryker Red GTS.

- - - Updated - - -

I am not, but that’s a good idea. Thanks!


are you on any of the VOA (or other Viper) FB pages? there's always some popping up there

[Cheme1985]

IHOP. Are you local to Houston?


I have my 13 White GTS with black stripes on here and auto trader it fits wha you are looking for. And is a great car

[IHOP]

No in AZ

[Cheme1985]

Well I called and stopped by to look at the black TA clone for sale at B.J. Motors/Viper exchange. I’m not very impressed with Bernie’s customer service. He comes across as a pompous prick and acted as if I was somehow bothering him by inquiring about the car. First on the phone, then in person when I dropped by. Which is strange because my dealings the couple of times I’ve had in service with Morgan were great.

Maybe he was having a bad day or has anyone else gotten this impression?

[Bruce H.]

Don't know Bernie but I can tell you that cloning a TA is sacrilege and should be punishable by something truly awful!

[Dsjp916]

I’m also looking to sell mine if interested. 13 gts bone stock black interior. 4200 miles on her. However I live in Rhode Island LoL.

[Cheme1985]

Sent D.M.’s to IHOP and dsjp

[Cheme1985]

Lol! I tend to agree, but either way after dealing with Bernie yesterday I won’t spend a dime with those guys. I’m not saying I need the red carpet rolled out, but I’ll be damned if I have to feel like I’m bugging/begging you to hand over a sack of money. Lol


Don't know Bernie but I can tell you that cloning a TA is sacrilege and should be punishable by something truly awful!

[ACR-ISH]

Lol! I tend to agree, but either way after dealing with Bernie yesterday I won’t spend a dime with those guys. I’m not saying I need the red carpet rolled out, but I’ll be damned if I have to feel like I’m bugging/begging you to hand over a sack of money. Lol

You should give them some feedback. All my dealings and inquisitions have been pleasant and I didn't feel that way. Let management know, that's how businesses improve... or decide not to.

[blingnoring]

You should give them some feedback. All my dealings and inquisitions have been pleasant and I didn't feel that way. Let management know, that's how businesses improve... or decide not to.

that's right and you never know you might get invited to his beach house for the weekend. imagine that, weekend at Bernie's.

[BSLSK]

You should give them some feedback. All my dealings and inquisitions have been pleasant and I didn't feel that way. Let management know, that's how businesses improve... or decide not to.

Isn't Bernie the owner of VE? I considered buying a '15 GT from him but changed my mind as I had my heart set out for a GTS after shopping a bit and he stopped responding to me as soon as I asked about a different car.

[StrokerAce]

I inquired some time ago about a car they had and I got short replies and then when I asked a question about another car I got no answer. The black GTS they have is right up my alley but not sure I will put up with being treated that way.

They seem to have a solid reputation with quality cars.

[MoHaWk2003]

I got my ‘14 from him this past Summer and had a great experience with Bernie and his team. He was prompt with email replies and the transaction was quick and pain free. They picked my wife and I up from the airport so that we could pick up the car and drive it back to Dallas.

That being said, I wonder if he is transitioning from being a Viper place to a more exotic car place. I’m seeing all these million + Supercars that he is obtaining and it just seems like his clientele is changing. Would not be surprised if he’s not as interested in prospective buyers inquiring about the few vipers he has left in stock (that aren’t ACRs or special editions).

[Cheme1985]

From the above two replies it sounds like this is his MO lately then for whatever reason...

I don’t think you should have to spell out being polite/giving good customer service to a business like that personally. If he/they cared enough it should be self evident. Maybe this business model works for them. Not my cup of tea though when the sales guy or owner is too cool or too good to be bothered to spend a little time to politely sell a car. *shrug*

[MoHaWk2003]

I ultimately felt that Viper Exchange is a reputable place to get a car and I found the car that I wanted. Finding the perfect Viper may be getting harder and harder nowadays. In my short and novice experience in buying cars, I’d personally rather deal with a less than ideal salesman or owner but get the car that I want then get some red carpet treatment with free pens and tshirts on a car that I had to settle for. Bernie was great to me but I literally interacted with him less than an hour during the whole negotiation process via email and pickup. FWIW.

[Bruce H.]

Well I called and stopped by to look at the black TA clone for sale at B.J. Motors/Viper exchange.

I have to ask, was it a black ACR-E they were trying to pass off as an authentic TA? :smilielol:

[Cheme1985]

I think it was just a plain old gts if I’m not mistaken. They did mention it wasn’t a real TA. He said it just had all the TA goodies installed.


I have to ask, was it a black ACR-E they were trying to pass off as an authentic TA? :smilielol:

[StrokerAce]

I think it's a GT not GTS.

Too many miles for me but that 14 GTS is about perfect.

[Cheme1985]

You might be right. I’ve started to black out the bad encounter from my memory. :smilielol:


I think it's a GT not GTS.

Too many miles for me but that 14 GTS is about perfect.

[StrokerAce]

Did you happen to check out the GTS??

[Cheme1985]

The 2014 listed for 87k? Nope. Had that garish looking caramel leather interior listed. I just think it clashes with the look of the car so bad.


Did you happen to check out the GTS??

[Matt Dillon]

GL with your search, you'll eventually come across the ONE! I Promise you & when you see it you'll KNOW It. Again GL & be Patient

[StrokerAce]

I am not against it as it's mix matched with black.

[Viperblasius]

your missing out by not wanting the peanut butter interior. Thats what most people like most about my car

[TA Two Oh]

I have to ask, was it a black ACR-E they were trying to pass off as an authentic TA? :smilielol:

Don't know Bernie but I can tell you that cloning a TA is sacrilege and should be punishable by something truly awful!

Bruce

You're ready for stand up! The world needs another Jerry Seinfeld right now. Thanks for the laughs.

[Cheme1985]

Now granted I haven’t seen in it person so maybe I should keep an open mind and go look at one.


your missing out by not wanting the peanut butter interior. Thats what most people like most about my car

[StrokerAce]

That GTS only has brown seats and a few rid bits. Dash I black I believe. A British Racing Green with that interior would be a nice combo.

[Bruce H.]

You're ready for stand up! The world needs another Jerry Seinfeld right now. Thanks for the laughs.

Even better...


that's right and you never know you might get invited to his beach house for the weekend. imagine that, weekend at Bernie's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCTgcZ6ImsQ

Bruce

[Viperblasius]

I would, Pics don't do justice. When I saw pics I said to myself " nope, heck no"... When I saw it in person, I had to have it

[cashcorn]

14 SRT, billet silver, carbon fiber ext/int, upgraded leather, sidewinders. Mods: Belanger headers/hiflows, AC Performance tune, 18 speakers, trac pac rotors, lowering caps, stainless brake lines, dse heat shield, dse passenger catch can, pulley & kn drop in air filter, new toyo's with 500 miles41717

[Cheme1985]

PM sent.


14 SRT, billet silver, carbon fiber ext/int, upgraded leather, sidewinders. Mods: Belanger headers/hiflows, AC Performance tune, 18 speakers, trac pac rotors, lowering caps, stainless brake lines, dse heat shield, dse passenger catch can, pulley & kn drop in air filter, new toyo's with 500 miles41717

[Cheme1985]

Does anyone have any opinion on puchasing a Gen V that was listed as a fleet vehicle in the VIN history?

[cashcorn]

I'll send a pm

[Scott_in_fl]

Does anyone have any opinion on puchasing a Gen V that was listed as a fleet vehicle in the VIN history?

I believe this shows up whenever a vehicle is purchased by an entity other than an individual. Thus, if you bought your car through an LLC or other business entity, it will show up as fleet. At least that is my understanding. Thus, it's not really an accurate indicator of how it was used (ie. it is not always the case that a "fleet" vehicle was driven by employees or rental clients even though it sounds like that would be the case).

[BSLSK]

If it's a fleet white TA 2.0 with burgundy red interior, it's highly likely it was a Bondurant car. Any other fleet cars are likely to be what Scott said and also possibly corporate FCA exec cars or demo cars.

[Cheme1985]

The Bondurant ones were beat on like step children I’ve read. Is that true?

This isn’t one of those. Not a TA or ACR. So probably an exec or LLC owner car then?

[IHOP]

The Bondurant ones were beat on like step children I’ve read. Is that true?

This isn’t one of those. Not a TA or ACR. So probably an exec or LLC owner car then?

There are mixed feelings on Bondurant cars. While they were driven and beat on they were also maintained and serviced by our local Viper Tech here in AZ. So take from that what you will but still buyer beware on those. I'm not sure if there are any owners on here who owned previous Bondurant cars and can give a better insight. As for the tan interior personally I have seen them in person and for me they are not my cup of tea at all but everyone is different with different taste.

[aspman]

love it!!!!!!!!

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your missing out by not wanting the peanut butter interior. Thats what most people like most about my car

love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Baabeeland]

Can you send informations about the car to tintrieu2018@gmail.com. Thanks

[Dman]

Sweet.

[Dman]

Sweet.


14 SRT, billet silver, carbon fiber ext/int, upgraded leather, sidewinders. Mods: Belanger headers/hiflows, AC Performance tune, 18 speakers, trac pac rotors, lowering caps, stainless brake lines, dse heat shield, dse passenger catch can, pulley & kn drop in air filter, new toyo's with 500 miles41717

[Cheme1985]

Jesus Christ almighty. This forum is ridiculous. It keeps truncating private messages and posts with seemingly no rhyme or reason. None that I can see anyway.

If anyone has a car they want to discuss email me directly at Roy.devinc@gmail.com

[HOLLYWOOD]

Not to beat on Bernie but I called him from Calgary a couple of times and he was very short and a complete jerk. I could hear the hatred in his voice. He talked to me in a very condescending way like quit wasting my time. Anyway, I would never even think of dealing with such a pompous azz. He is far from the only game in town. Anyway, I have a 06 SC'd Blue/silver coupe that Woodhouse worked their magic on. I will not part with this one but am always looking for a Gen IV/V ACR-E, VooDooo, Stryker Green ACR-E and am not in any hurry nor prepared to pay the ridiculous pumped up Barrett Jackson prices. I will let reality settle in after things settle down. The bottom line is these cars had a heck of a time selling for whatever reason as there are a lot of choices out there. I just don't chase this stuff, never have and never will. I have a 80 L-82 Vette and am still kicking myself for getting rid of my 78 Trans Am and 79 Silver Anniversary for this Vette. I will never own a Corvette again as they are a dime a dozen. I am also thinking of a Redeye.....decisions, decisions.

[ViperJon]

Hard to say who is more polarizing.....Bernie or Jon B......:)
I’ve bought four new ACR’s from Bernie over the years and never had an issue. Always done via email and phone. Can’t speak for VE now as they are just used cars and a lot of expensive exotics but I can truthfully say I have always got the best prices from him. MUCH better than the other “big time” dealers. I always had a reasonable offering price and reasonable trade in offer in my mind and we seldom negotiated more than a couple of emails. Key word is reasonable I think....not ludicrously low. Just my experience.

[Mark1107]

Im with Viper Jon. Last year I almost bought the Nurburgring Viper GTSR. He got almost 150k in financing, reasonable trade for my Range Rover and trade on my Stryker green GTS paying off another 150k combined loans. It was a very complicated deal, it would have stretched me financially at a bad time for my business, and at 2am I emailed him canceling the deal. He emailed me back saying how disappointed he was but he treated me with respect and courtesy even after I cancelled. I dont know Bernie but I’ve heard bad things but I would buy from him again - if the deal was right! Plus business is good again so maybe 2020.





Hard to say who is more polarizing.....Bernie or Jon B......:)
I’ve bought four new ACR’s from Bernie over the years and never had an issue. Always done via email and phone. Can’t speak for VE now as they are just used cars and a lot of expensive exotics but I can truthfully say I have always got the best prices from him. MUCH better than the other “big time” dealers. I always had a reasonable offering price and reasonable trade in offer in my mind and we seldom negotiated more than a couple of emails. Key word is reasonable I think....not ludicrously low. Just my experience.

[Cheme1985]

Well for me at least a price did not come up at first. Other than just a cursory ask as to whether they were firm or not on it. I did not drop a low ball or ridiculous number (or any number at all). He was rude from when he picked up the phone. He did not even shake my hand when I left or say goodbye when I stopped by. Just walked off back to his office. Big dickhead in my book. *shrug*

[Cheme1985]

What are everyones thoughts on a gallardo? It is in the same ball park price wise. I have a feeling asking this on a viper forum will equate to duh go buy a viper with the inverse happening on a lambo forum. Lol

[Scott_in_fl]

If you have someone who can work on it and is good, reasonable and trustworthy, then great. But that is a hard thing to find. The cars were and still are very cool. Stay away from e-gear though.

[Gen5snake]

Here are two really nice options on both sides of the spectrum.

A nice low mileage (6,100 miles) SRT with factory Aero. $79,888 I like it when you see options like Aero ordered from the factory.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=540931136

41743

And for the other side of the spectrum....my dream viper. 127 miles GTC with ACR/TA options. $183,900 (these usually go for a lot more)

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=539637984

41744

[Cheme1985]

I imagine Houston probably has more than 1 reputable Lambo shop. I would be very surprised if we don't. I would just need to figure out who that is first of course.


If you have someone who can work on it and is good, reasonable and trustworthy, then great. But that is a hard thing to find. The cars were and still are very cool. Stay away from e-gear though.

[Cheme1985]

Both great looking cars. I'm specifically looking for a base for two reasons. To keep my spend in line with my budget and because I don't think I've ever left a vehicle stock. I just couldn't bring myself to mod that ACR/TA. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night and for sure the pitchfork mob would come out. lol

I'm trying to keep it somewhat more local at the moment to make the logistics of inspecting the cars, etc a bit easier on myself, but may have to expand my radius in the near future if I don't find anything that grabs my attention.


Here are two really nice options on both sides of the spectrum.

A nice low mileage (6,100 miles) SRT with factory Aero. $79,888 I like it when you see options like Aero ordered from the factory.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=540931136

41743

And for the other side of the spectrum....my dream viper. 127 miles GTC with ACR/TA options. $183,900 (these usually go for a lot more)

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=539637984

41744

[Gen5snake]

Both great looking cars. I'm specifically looking for a base for two reasons. To keep my spend in line with my budget and because I don't think I've ever left a vehicle stock. I just couldn't bring myself to mod that ACR/TA. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night and for sure the pitchfork mob would come out. lol

I bought a base for those reasons....plus it's the lightest, I love the .63 6th gear ratio and can't forget the 6 vent hood. There's a bunch on here that don't mind tinkering with rare variants of these cars...I personally could never do it. The red one is definitely getting me to sweat a little. It's not far away. The old lady would kill me....a death by a 1000 cuts. They would be deep cuts too.

[Cheme1985]

Another touchy subject. Difference in perceived values vs nada values? Why does such a large spread exist? For instance nada says a base 2013 srt viper average sales value is $55,400 as of checking right now. They can’t just pull those values out of thin air right?

[StrokerAce]

I wouldn't mind a base but a GTS or GT is more what I would like for the creature comforts, if you can call them.

At the end of the day I like them all and if I get a smoking deal on one I will buy it.

[IHOP]

Another touchy subject. Difference in perceived values vs nada values? Why does such a large spread exist? For instance nada says a base 2013 srt viper average sales value is $55,400 as of checking right now. They can’t just pull those values out of thin air right?

Limited production car, several being totaled and the fact the car is not being produced anymore are a few reasons. Oh and more and more parts being hard to find.

[Cheme1985]

That's certainly 1 possible explanation. Does anyone know how Nada comes to the valuations they post? This is what i've seen banks/credit unions use for LTV ratios so it has to have some basis right? I'm not saying I agree with the numbers, but just wondering why such a spread exists.

My cursory glance at the Nada for Gallardos vs what is listed for sale on cargurus and autotrader seems to have a smaller delta for some reason. Same sort of exotic market or least with potential buyer crossover between and I believe less Gallardos were made per year than vipers, but that data may be wrong (I read it on the internet so it must be true right?).


Limited production car, several being totaled and the fact the car is not being produced anymore are a few reasons. Oh and more and more parts being hard to find.

[Bruce H.]

You're trying to compare wholesale prices with retail market prices, with dealer shipping, reburb costs, profit, ect being the difference. Not sure you can compare what's going on with Gallardos but their desirability may not be what the Gen V's is, either way apples to oranges. And the market varies from one part of the country to another.

At the end of the day a buyer needs to evaluate the market that they are shopping in and make their own assessment of value based on the cars they see, not some average. If wholesale values limit your ability to get financing then that sucks. Dealers can often finance higher amounts and that may be a better option than buying privately.

[Cheme1985]

I never said I was financing the vehicle. I'm not. I simply stated that financial institutions use Nada for LTV ratios for loans so that value data can't just be made up right? It has to have some basis in fact from somewhere. Does Nada state that those values it uses are wholesale values only and not retail values somewhere that I missed?

And if they have a lot of wholesale transactions they use for this then where are all these cars at these prices? I'll gladly pick up a few. lol

For reference I wasn't limiting my search of postings of Gen V's to just my area when I looked at the data. I looked across the entire country to get a better picture.

Long story short it's a touchy subject like I said because everyone (I think) has that emotional attachment to (for many of us anyway)what is our dream car and I think that can partially affect it.


You're trying to compare wholesale prices with retail market prices, with dealer shipping, reburb costs, profit, ect being the difference. Not sure you can compare what's going on with Gallardos but their desirability may not be what the Gen V's is, either way apples to oranges. And the market varies from one part of the country to another.

At the end of the day a buyer needs to evaluate the market that they are shopping in and make their own assessment of value based on the cars they see, not some average. If wholesale values limit your ability to get financing then that sucks. Dealers can often finance higher amounts and that may be a better option than buying privately.

[Cheme1985]

Another thought though. Even if in my case I'm not financing the Nada values coming in lower than perceived reality would affect resale right? It limits potential buyers who for one reason or another can't or don't want to plunk down the cash for a new toy. Arguments exist on both sides. Never finance a toy/cash only for recreational things because reasons.

Other side being auto interest rates being in the low single digits (currently 1.9%-3.0% for 36-72 months at my credit union when I just checked) vs investing said dough in an index fund with an average return somewhere north of 5% is giving away $$$.

Supply and demand and all that I suppose. I'm not trying to hurt any feelings. I'm just trying to understand the data and market. Bad habit from too many years squinting at spreadsheets of numbers at work I guess.

[Bryan Savage]

Another thought though. Even if in my case I'm not financing the Nada values coming in lower than perceived reality would affect resale right? It limits potential buyers who for one reason or another can't or don't want to plunk down the cash for a new toy. Arguments exist on both sides. Never finance a toy/cash only for recreational things because reasons.

Other side being auto interest rates being in the low single digits (currently 1.9%-3.0% for 36-72 months at my credit union when I just checked) vs investing said dough in an index fund with an average return somewhere north of 5% is giving away $$$.

Supply and demand and all that I suppose. I'm not trying to hurt any feelings. I'm just trying to understand the data and market. Bad habit from too many years squinting at spreadsheets of numbers at work I guess.

I don't know where NADA or Kelley would get their values. I think there's some maths in there about averaging sale costs across the country or something. I would also bet that any seller will laugh in the face of any NADA value for such a low-production vehicle, and laugh in your face if you tried to use NADA's value to haggle over a car, especially when somehow NADA's value is $30,000+ less than asking price. Realtors hate Zillow and car dealerships hate NADA. lol

[Cheme1985]

Of course they do. The numbers they generate are typically lower than the seller would reasonably like to get for whatever reason. They have a vested interest in selling for the highest price possible in both cases (car dealer and real estate agent). I don't think anyone is shocked to find out that people selling things want to get more money for their wares and people buying said wares want to pay less. lol

I was more driving at trying to figure out why this discrepancy exists. And more specifically why does it seem so high in the Vipers case?


I don't know where NADA or Kelley would get their values. I think there's some maths in there about averaging sale costs across the country or something. I would also bet that any seller will laugh in the face of any NADA value for such a low-production vehicle, and laugh in your face if you tried to use NADA's value to haggle over a car, especially when somehow NADA's value is $30,000+ less than asking price. Realtors hate Zillow and car dealerships hate NADA. lol

[Vipes]

I believe less Gallardos were made per year than vipers, but that data may be wrong (I read it on the internet so it must be true right?).

I'm assuming you meant gen V since that's what you're looking for...

14,022 Gallardos made over 10 years = 1,402/year

3,913 Vipers (gen V) made over 5 years = 782/year

[Bryan Savage]

Of course they do. The numbers they generate are typically lower than the seller would reasonably like to get for whatever reason. They have a vested interest in selling for the highest price possible in both cases (car dealer and real estate agent). I don't think anyone is shocked to find out that people selling things want to get more money for their wares and people buying said wares want to pay less. lol

I was more driving at trying to figure out why this discrepancy exists. And more specifically why does it seem so high in the Vipers case?

Did a quick search and found this website: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/113015/are-kelley-blue-book-values-accurate-and-reliable.asp

"Kelley Blue Book receives real-world used car prices on a daily basis from wholesale auctions, independent and franchised dealers, rental fleets, auto manufacturers, lessors, and private party transactions.

Kelley’s proprietary algorithm analyzes pricing data along with historical trends, current economic conditions, industry developments, time of year, and location to determine Kelley Blue Book values."

I'm sure the takeaway is "proprietary". Obvs, neither they nor NADA are going to share the formulae with you, but I bet that maybe due to there being so few data points for Vipers and other exotics, the algorithms breakdown and spit out inaccurate numbers. It would be nice to have some kind of correction applied, but I'd think that in the Viper's case, you can only pick and choose what you can find on your own to assign your own value. Idk.

[Cheme1985]

I did and I stand corrected. Thanks!

Whether pre and post LP gallardos being the same gen or not is another question I guess.


I'm assuming you meant gen V since that's what you're looking for...

14,022 Gallardos made over 10 years = 1,402/year

3,913 Vipers (gen V) made over 5 years = 782/year

[Cheme1985]

I have seen that site and a few others that attempt the explanation, but I didn’t find the reasoning satisfactory. Proprietary equates to we do not know. I was wondering if anyone had any extra insight. Appears not.

I guess it will go down as one of those great mysteries of life along with how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Lol


Did a quick search and found this website: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/113015/are-kelley-blue-book-values-accurate-and-reliable.asp

"Kelley Blue Book receives real-world used car prices on a daily basis from wholesale auctions, independent and franchised dealers, rental fleets, auto manufacturers, lessors, and private party transactions.

Kelley’s proprietary algorithm analyzes pricing data along with historical trends, current economic conditions, industry developments, time of year, and location to determine Kelley Blue Book values."

I'm sure the takeaway is "proprietary". Obvs, neither they nor NADA are going to share the formulae with you, but I bet that maybe due to there being so few data points for Vipers and other exotics, the algorithms breakdown and spit out inaccurate numbers. It would be nice to have some kind of correction applied, but I'd think that in the Viper's case, you can only pick and choose what you can find on your own to assign your own value. Idk.

[StrokerAce]

I guess it will go down as one of those great mysteries of life along with how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Lol

Three. The answer is three. I saw the commercials. :smilielol:

[ViperGTS14]

If you have someone who can work on it and is good, reasonable and trustworthy, then great. But that is a hard thing to find. The cars were and still are very cool. Stay away from e-gear though.

Plus 1 on that , hated the R8 with the R-tronic which is basically the same trans

[Mark1107]

Rare Unique G5 Viper = Alpha Male
Old & ugly dated Gallardo = beta ricer male

[IHOP]

Keep in mind NADA and KBB are used primarily for mass produced cars. Those values are fairly accurate however I spent 18 years as a director for the largest private dealer group in the country and those values are a starting point. Like Bruce said wholesale/trade in values are a starting point, some vehicles we would value thousands less because those cars are readily available and they don't hold their value. While others would be worth the actual book value but those types are cars were more limited production or specialty cars. NADA and KBB make their money on valuing mass produced cars, a Gallardo or a Viper will not sell for the value of either one of those sources. Most used specialty sports cars are only financed for short term or not at all so those sources aren't very accurate. They are guides, that simple.

[parabs]

Cheme1985 I’ve been in viper ownership for about 5 years. Here’s what you will find, owners who have cars that will sell for their price. They don’t give two shits the car optioned similar four states over is 6k less...Aside from that, good luck finding comparables. Your only chance to find comparable cars is to omit colour from your criteria. You want a certain colour - your entry price probably just went up. Stripes or no stripes? Then you want a specific trim? Good luck getting a deal locally.

The market bears are usually on the outside looking in. The market bulls talk about values skyrocketing. Neither is really true, but prices are quite steady. Once your in you will see year over year pricing that is quite steady.

I bought a gen 3 first, from the outside looking in the prices should have been dropping. Nope. So I jumped in and picked up a car from a dealer, dealer wouldn’t take more than 4% off. Couple years later I traded that car to different dealer and got more on trade than I paid when I picked up my base Gen 5. Gunmetal pearl with black stripes and a base black interior with red leather seats. I’ve not seen another one for sale that mirrors this one...the red seats are a killer in this combo - in my opinion. And guess what, you want one like it you probably have to buy mine. It’s a sellers market despite cars not moving quickly or in significant volumes.

My Gen 3 value change, ~3k USD after 2+ years ownership and putting on about 5k miles.

[Bryan Savage]

I have seen that site and a few others that attempt the explanation, but I didn’t find the reasoning satisfactory. Proprietary equates to we do not know. I was wondering if anyone had any extra insight. Appears not.

I guess it will go down as one of those great mysteries of life along with how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Lol

True story!!!

I'd be super interested in looking behind the curtain, so-to-speak, at NADA and while we're at it, FICO.

Also, for the record, I counted up to 800+ licks when I was a kid, but started to get bored. Do you lick in just one spot? Or do you have to make all the candy disappear?

[Cheme1985]

Neither. I bit into them like a savage (pun intended lol). I haven't often been accused of patience being one of my core virtues. lol


True story!!!

I'd be super interested in looking behind the curtain, so-to-speak, at NADA and while we're at it, FICO.

Also, for the record, I counted up to 800+ licks when I was a kid, but started to get bored. Do you lick in just one spot? Or do you have to make all the candy disappear?

[StrokerAce]

Bryan's wife/girl friend must love him. 800 licks??

What's odd is that a $90k sticker car sells for virtually the same as a $140k sticker car. Both bring similar miles and same year. You would think the gap would be large but it's not.

[Scott_in_fl]

I agree with the others about NADA, FICO, etc. all being algorithm driven and we have no idea what formula is used.

With respect to NADA, I expect that it is somewhat useful for high volume mass-appeal vehicles like Toyota Camry, Ford Explorer, etc. NADA likely pulls a ton of info that also includes historic depreciation but does not differentiate old/new generations very well. I find it entirely useless for expensive sports cars that are comparatively very low volume units with significant changes between generations.

Instead, Manheim auction data is about all you really have for reliable third party info. But auction data has its own pitfalls as well.

The problem with auctions is that you have no idea of the true condition of the car (the condition reports are bullshit) or any other circumstances. There is often a reason why cars end up at auctions that indicates they might be difficult sales. If a dealer takes in a good car on trade, they rather keep it for themselves or unload it to someone they know can move it or wants it rather than sending it to auction. Auctions are, again, largely for the Toyota Camry's and Ford Explorers. You are rarely getting a Huracan coming through your local Manheim. Rather, those cars move among high line stores, brokers, or reputable used car dealers. For example, if Lamborghini Chicago takes in an ACR-E on trade, they may try to move it or may send it over to Chicago Motor Cars or another similar outlet.

[Cheme1985]

I'm assuming you mean the different trim levels for the Gen V cars? I reconcile that fact with myself for one reason. I don't really care about the creature comforts that come extra with the higher trim levels (TA and ACR aside).

I'm buying the car for the gorgeous body, that great engine, and with the 3 pedals we all love. All trims have the same engine, trans, and exterior (mostly minus a few nick nacks here and there). I could care less about the power seats or push button doo dads so I don't want to pay extra for them thus my search for a base. If I was looking for the luxury I wouldn't be shopping for this car.

ACR and TA are obviously a different story.


Bryan's wife/girl friend must love him. 800 licks??

What's odd is that a $90k sticker car sells for virtually the same as a $140k sticker car. Both bring similar miles and same year. You would think the gap would be large but it's not.

[StrokerAce]

Best thing about the car is the look and 3 pedals with a honking engine. For a few K (it seems) I think I will opt for the higher trim but I totally get where you're coming from. I wouldn't say no to a base SRT though.

[Cheme1985]

So I decided to go a different route. I fell in love with an AMG GTS after driving it. 43109

[Cheme1985]

Home safe and sound next to the snake and bikes. 43111

[Cheme1985]

So now I’m thinking of selling the viper. I don’t think she’s going to get many miles anymore...

[Bruce H.]

Congrats! A buddy has had one since 2015 and absolutely loves his as a daily driver on street as well as on track. But since your change of direction is more like a complete 180 I wonder if keeping the Viper at least until the new car honeymoon is over might be a good idea.

Enjoy!


I don't really care about the creature comforts that come extra with the higher trim levels (TA and ACR aside).

I'm buying the car for the gorgeous body, that great engine, and with the 3 pedals we all love. I could care less about the power seats or push button doo dads so I don't want to pay extra for them thus my search for a base. If I was looking for the luxury I wouldn't be shopping for this car.

[Cheme1985]

Thanks Bruce! You might be right about the honeymoon phase. I think even after that new car lust wears off I am going to want a gen V if I decide to keep a snake in the garage.

I test drove a gen V a couple of weeks ago and the driving experience was so far superior to my gen III. It was so hard to believe the night and day difference.

[StrokerAce]

Great alternative, in my opinion. Love it. Congrats!

Give an update after you get used to it. I hear they are good DD's and still loads of fun. Specs on it?



Also, I notice a Duc and an MV in the back if not mistaken. :)

[Cheme1985]

You could absolutely DD this thing. So far so good. She is a lovely thing to drive fast or just cruise around in.

Nah no MV. Just three Ducs at the moment. 999, 1198, and M1200S.

43118

[drewsss]

Yeah, when I got my new toy (pre-LP Gallardo), I figured that one was enough and promptly ditched my Gen 2 ACR. Looking back, that was a mistake as I loved that car, and since then replaced it with a Gen 3.

The nice thing about having two toys is that you really don't have to worry about racking up the miles on either one. The bad thing is that it's hard to choose which one to take out sometimes...lol.

I'd think long and hard about launching your Viper, based upon experience.

43119

[Scott_in_fl]

Thanks Bruce! You might be right about the honeymoon phase. I think even after that new car lust wears off I am going to want a gen V if I decide to keep a snake in the garage.

I test drove a gen V a couple of weeks ago and the driving experience was so far superior to my gen III. It was so hard to believe the night and day difference.

Yes, once you drive the Gen V, you will want to sell the Gen III. There's no going back now and you are correct that the Gen III likely will not get many (if any) more miles on her. Been there, done that.

Now, as far as having the GT and being Viper-less, that is a mistake. The GT is great, but the honeymoon will wear off and you will accept the reality that the driving experience is nowhere close to a Gen V Viper. For folks that have never driven a Gen V or are not Viper fans, the GT is likely great for them. Ignorance is bliss. I have friends with GT and GTR, and I think they like them, but every time I go for a ride, I'm left wondering how anyone could want one over a Gen V. They sound glorious, and I love the interior, so I'll give it that. But the looks are okay (imo, certainly no better than Viper Gen V), the performance is okay, and that's about it. You're left with MB quality/reliability and resale/depreciation, all of which range from awful to downright embarrassing. I suppose there is a perceived classiness that comes with MB, and so the missus will like that when you take her out in it. But man you're going to miss rowing gears and hearing that V10 out the sidepipes, trust me. And my ACR-E chases down my buddies no problem and it must look in their mirrors like I'm coming to eat their pretty little cars.

[Cheme1985]

That’s probably true, but garage space necessitates selling the gen III before I added a gen V to the garage so either way I think she has to go.

[StrokerAce]

That’s probably true, but garage space necessitates selling the gen III before I added a gen V to the garage so either way I think she has to go.

Get a storage lift. :)

[Bruce H.]

That’s probably true, but garage space necessitates selling the gen III before I added a gen V to the garage so either way I think she has to go.

Any plan that involves getting you into the Viper of your dreams sounds like a most excellent one to me!

The AMG GT was designed to compete with the 911 Turbo, one of which I own and the other I've street and track driven, and I'd say they're pretty good competitors with each other... but a world away from the Gen V. It's not just the manual tranny, or the V10, or naturally aspirated, or engine/drive layout, or the cockpit that fits you like a glove, or the clean instrument panel and intuitive controls, or the exotic shape that even young kids go nuts over, or the lower stance or ridiculously wide tires, the cool side exhaust or double-bubble roof, or the insane clam shaped carbon fiber engine hood when lifted or the little snake scales incorporated into the light lenses, or the sight of the entire massive engine that every other car seems to hide under acres of plastic covers. It's no one thing, or even a few...it's everything that culminates into a specialness that's hard to describe, and even harder to find in any other sports car.

Just a tough act to follow!

[Cheme1985]

No doubt the gen V is a special car Bruce. I can’t argue with any of those solid points. Lol

I wish I had the head space in my garage for a storage lift! I would have bought one years ago just to make wrenching easier. Unfortunately I do not so I make do with my quickjack.

The next house will either have a bigger garage, higher ceilings, or enough land to build a shop building for sure! And the next/last house I ever plan on buying will probably/hopefully happen sometime in the next 12 or so months.

[StrokerAce]

If you can tray your bedroom ceiling you can tray your garage to allow the roof to go up in a bit. :)

[Cheme1985]

Great thought. Whole house is one story. Garage is attached by breezeway, but I’ve already looked into to. It would be a mint to reengineer the garage support for a higher ceiling. And if I’m buying a new house I’d never get the return in the next 12-18 months.

[Steve-Indy]

Exactly how tall is your garage ceiling at its lowest point ?

The reason I ask is that I can stack Gen II, IV or V Coupes on my four post lift in any order...noting that my ceiling height is only 102.5 inches. I do the service by sitting on a rolling stool...wearing a bicycle helmet.

I do have to back the car onto the lift to clear the opener's housing.

As you can see, I decided not to alter the garage...still happy 18 years later.

[Cheme1985]

I can not remember off hand exactly, but I think it was almost exactly 8 foot everywhere. It doesn’t raise up at any point. Not I can not complain too much since the square footage is right at 1200, but my woodworking and welding stuff takes up some of that space. And now I am getting more serious with the Gf so she is going to appreciate a garage spot as well. Lol

[catwood]

You Houston guys have all the charm. Putting the GF in the garage.......awesome!

[Cheme1985]

Haha. Southern gentleman and all that. She is about to move in so yea. Gotta make sure to take care of this one. She might be a keeper.

[Bruce H.]

Wait a sec....you're car crazy, bike crazy, shop crazy AND you plan to take care of this one??? I hate to break it to you but I bet she has other plans for how you're going to be spending your time...and soon after how you'll be spending your money. You need a clause somewhere stipulating the purchase of a Gen V in exchange for the Gen III. Yeah and not looking good for those crotch rockets I'm afraid...sorry.

But the good news is you could very well find happiness with just the Gen V, GTS and GF...or at least 2 out of 3 ;)

[Cheme1985]

Haha that is right. She is totally ok with me blowing money on ridiculous things like cars and bikes so far. And other random things in the garage. So that is a big plus in my book so far! Haha

[StrokerAce]

Haha that is right. She is totally ok with me blowing money on ridiculous things like cars and bikes so far. And other random things in the garage. So that is a big plus in my book so far! Haha

Said every man who had toys when he met a woman. I joke, of course. Some are cool but some not.

Mine saw the GTS in the garage on the lift and never said two words. She was totally indifferent. She was rather quiet for a few days so I figure that was icing on the cake. :)

[Cheme1985]

she has gone for rides on the back of the bikes and for cruises around in the cars and enjoys so far. Hopefully that stays the same. Lol

She tolerated rides in the viper. She actually enjoys the AMG.

[Whiskey]

I've got you all beat...mine helps me wrench on it...got it for me as a surprise birthday present....after I wreck my last Viper at the track.

[Bruce H.]

I've got you all beat...mine helps me wrench on it...got it for me as a surprise birthday present....after I wreck my last Viper at the track.

That's awesome!

I'm thinking an advice, trouble shooting and cost analysis thread about spouses and significant others could be of real value to many members! I'd pay money for the tip to get my wife to detail the Sidewinder II wheels on my Viper because those suckers are a real pain to keep clean!

[Whiskey]

That's awesome!

I'm thinking an advice, trouble shooting and cost analysis thread about spouses and significant others could be of real value to many members! I'd pay money for the tip to get my wife to detail the Sidewinder II wheels on my Viper because those suckers are a real pain to keep clean!


Just tell her that you'd use a 2:1 ratio of her time and help cleaning the wheels to you ...um...petting the kitty.


She thinks she's getting 100% more out of you....but the reality is your getting 300% more out of her!

Make the check payable to the charity of your choice....

[StrokerAce]

Just tell her that you'd use a 2:1 ratio of her time and help cleaning the wheels to you ...um...petting the kitty.


She thinks she's getting 100% more out of you....but the reality is your getting 300% more out of her!

Make the check payable to the charity of your choice....

Pfft....mine would help me if I promised to leave her alone.

[Bruce H.]

Just tell her that you'd use a 2:1 ratio of her time and help cleaning the wheels to you ...um...petting the kitty.


She thinks she's getting 100% more out of you....but the reality is your getting 300% more out of her!

Make the check payable to the charity of your choice....

Hahaha...that might work for many but not likely for me. About 20 years ago I took my wife jewelry shopping while on vacation and she fell in love with a really expensive piece. Oh she wanted it badly and suggested how she would show her appreciation forever. Well, she got the jewelry... and let's just say she might not be inclined to believe any similar offer made to her!

And while that might be a great idea for others, just think of how it could affect resale values of ACR-E and other CCB equipped cars with brakes that don't dust. Guys would be bailing out of those for cars with iron rotors that need regular wheel cleaning, wives and girl friends would be selling their guys CCB cars and buying power washers and the best quality wheel cleaners that money can buy! It could change the enthusiast car market forever!

[Cheme1985]

Haha you guys are too much. :smilielol: