BJ auction

[aspman]

97 Blue/WhiteGTS sells for 50k.

[Martin]

Looks like a fair price. Any details on condition, mileage, etc?

[Policy Limits]

The Ring car and the 1:28 should be interesting of the gen V's. Lots of other gens look good too like that gen IV 1:33.

[BlknBlu]

The 11 mile ACRX and 18 mile 1:33 car are local cars here in Omaha, cant wait to see what they bring.

Bruce

[Policy Limits]

Lee Iacocca's #001 has got to hammer for 6 figs.

[ViperJon]

Looks like a fair price. Any details on condition, mileage, etc?

On FB a guys said it was a little rough. Scrapes, chips and worn seats. That's not a very good price for a low mileage B&W actually especially at a BJ auction.
But crossing the docket on a Wednesday afternoon sucks.

[Hamrhead]

I saw that. I believe they said 11K miles.

[Scott_in_fl]

It's always fun on these forums this time of year when the Scottsdale BJ auction comes up. We all get to review the docket, opine/guess values, and watch the action take place.

The 'Ring car with no miles on it, and the 1:28 car are terrific cars. The no mile '17 GTS in a nice 1-of-1 color will also be an interesting data point. Plenty of '92's to go around as well.

All in all, there will be a bunch of information that we get out of this weekend.

And then in the non-Viper world, we get to see a couple of NFGT's, a Senna, and a Saleen S7 go through. Those should be fun.

[99RT10]

Iacooca's #001 car went for $255K, I figured it would go for higher. Beautiful car too

[Policy Limits]

WOW! I read an article predicting a buck and a quarter! That's awesome!

The SSG SE ACR should be a decent hammer too. I notice a lot of the Special Edition cars are #1 of their flock, perhaps by coincidence. It's definitely a good number to have.

[ViperJon]

I wonder why it had such a craptastic time slot. Thursday mid day? Ugh.....

[Policy Limits]

Very good point. Imagine if it crossed the block on Saturday night when the booze will be flowing plentiful.....

[Bill Pemberton]

Jon and Policy are right , lousy night and not enough booze!! Saturday, the " Premier" evening it could have brought a half mil. I count the buyer as getting a great deal considering where this machine will sit in automotive history in years to come.

[ViperGeorge]

I caught for a moment the sale of what looked like a red/black stripe GTS, not sure of the year. I think the hammer price was $87,000 plus buyer's commission which is what 10%?

[ViperJon]

One thing I was confused about and maybe others is this car was NOT auctioned at Barrett Jackson. This was Bonhams which may or may not bring in the tipsy high rollers like Saturday night at BJ’s. Confusing as they were running concurrently.

[Arizona Vipers]

The 333 mile '92 went for $55K, a low IMO

[Scott_in_fl]

Damn, I need to register pronto.

[Arizona Vipers]

I wonder why it had such a craptastic time slot. Thursday mid day? Ugh.....

Yeah I would have been pissed, the other two 92's which have higher miles have way better time slots... I was going to buy it, but missed it. It had chrome wheels which would have to be fixed, and looked like later model emblems, a few things like that.. Otherwise the paint seems nice to me. Original tires. The owner is on this forum..

[RedTanRT/10]

The 333 mile '92 went for $55K, a low IMO

Yeah AZ, way too low. That would have looked good in your garage.

[Policy Limits]

Really good hammer prices on snakes so far. Gen IV Special Edition cars are fetching great dough

[Scott_in_fl]

You're not kidding. 2010 VooDoo ACR w 8k mi. gets $236k not including buyer premium!

Curious to see the 9 05/06 FGT's tonight? Too many?

How will they compare to the two 2017 ACR-E's tonight?

#ACRisthenextFGT :t15197:

[Blue T/A 2.0]

I could not believe how many commercials they ran during the ACRs going across stage. It was ridiculous. I thought the green ACR did respectable, but that black Voodoo did great.

[ACRSNK]

Wow on that VooDoo holy smokes

[ViperJon]

I'm going to be very IRRITATED if they cut to commercials tonight when the big dogs roll across.

[Policy Limits]

How will they compare to the two 2017 ACR-E's tonight?

#ACRisthenextFGT :t15197:

I started this movement:dancingman:

[Blue T/A 2.0]

I'm going to be very IRRITATED if they cut to commercials tonight when the big dogs roll across.
Steve is a big Ford fan. I bet you will not see any commercials during the FGTs tonight. I would never sell a Viper there.

[ViperNC]

Steve is a big Ford fan. I bet you will not see any commercials during the FGTs tonight. I would never sell a Viper there.

Interesting results yesterday on the Superformance and CAV GT40's. I want that '06 FGT in midnight blue with white stripes rolling across the block today!

[ACRSNK]

I started this movement:dancingman:

Lol

[SuperBird4404BBL]

VERY irritating commercials during the 2010 auctions last night. I was screaming at the TV. It seems that commercials come when the Mopar vehicles are going over the block. I saw enough Corvettes, Mustangs and Camaros.
2010 1:33, #1, 1,416 miles, $ 126.500.00
2010 SSG, #1, 5,600 miles, $139,700.00
2010 VoooDoo, #1, 8,198 miles, $ 236,500.00
All prices include buyers premium.
I hope the new owner(s) join VOA.

Seems like a good resto-mod muscle car brings some good money.

[Policy Limits]

When are the 401(k) supplements crossing the block? Any idea on time? DirecTV says 8:00?

[SuperBird4404BBL]

You can look at it my line. At 4:00 eastern time it will be on Discovery channel. At 8:00 it will go back to Motor Trend.
The problem with watching on line, you don't hear Steve Magnante's comments. He knows cars, especially Mopar iron.

[Wtracing]

some of these have been going for lower than I would expect, then you see an 87 supra sell for $165k haha nothing makes sense at these sometimes

[ViperJon]

41675

[Policy Limits]

1/4 Mill with juice? 4th ACR to hammer over 200k so far. That GTSR will be #5....watch.

[Murpowa]

VERY irritating commercials during the 2010 auctions last night. I was screaming at the TV. It seems that commercials come when the Mopar vehicles are going over the block. I saw enough Corvettes, Mustangs and Camaros.
2010 1:33, #1, 1,416 miles, $ 126.500.00
2010 SSG, #1, 5,600 miles, $139,700.00
2010 VoooDoo, #1, 8,198 miles, $ 236,500.00
All prices include buyers premium.
I hope the new owner(s) join VOA.

Seems like a good resto-mod muscle car brings some good money.

Honestly scratching my head on the hammer price for that VooDoo

[Desert Venom Racer]

What some of you don't know may surprise you. I'd like to add some historical perspective here. This auction used to be a haven for Viper owners. We (Viper owners) were treated with very special privileges here. It was one of our biggest events of the year. We always had reserved front-row parking for VCA members. Members from Team Viper (including Herb Helbig and John Fernandes) would meet us for lunch at the auction grounds restaurant and give us the inside scoop on everything Viper-related happening inside Dodge. Craig Jackson (from Barrett Jackson) was a member of the VCA-Arizona region and participated in club events. He had a beautiful B/W 97 RT/10. I would not consider the auction or its promoters to be anti-Viper at all. It's lack of buyer demand that results in disappointing prices. Anyone who has ever bid at an auction will tell you that a Viper-interested buyer would have been licking his chops when he saw Vipers on the docket in non-prime time slots. This was long before Chrysler sold out to European owners. Apparently nobody in Italy gives a damn about our platform right now. SAD! Things were not nearly as bad when Mercedes owned us. Their engineers were very supportive of our road racing efforts and appeared at many VRL and World Challenge events to provide free technical support. Rant over, sorry for hijacking the thread.

[ACRSNK]

I for one am not surprised by the Gen V ACR hammer prices but I am shocked by the Gen IV Voo Doo figure

[Policy Limits]

The GTSR Ring car should fetch 1/4 mill plus.

[ViperJon]

Just for reference that 1:28 was not a wrapper car, it had 1100 miles on it.

[ViperJon]

They show six cars then go to 10 commercials and you miss six cars. Really sucks.

[Policy Limits]

Another 1/4 mill with juice!

[ACRSNK]

Not too shabby on the GTSR

[Policy Limits]

Makes the 5th ACR car to hammer over 200k so far. These Special Edition cars are officially investments as previously predicted

#THENEXTFORDGT

[ACRSNK]

Makes the 5th ACR car to hammer over 200k so far. These Special Edition cars are officially investments as previously predicted

#THENEXTFORDGT

Amazing the values on these cars now three years out of production.

[ViperJon]

Not too shabby on the GTSR

I don’t think the stickers and contrived Bernie “numbering” added a thing to the hammer price. Factory installed options and decals make a world of difference obviously. A dealer slapping them on and doing their own numbering.....not so much.

[Policy Limits]

Agreed, though I was rooting for a bigger number nonetheless. The other contrived component is saying its number such and such of the ring cars. That was created by the dealer and not by the manufacturer. I personally would rather have your car than that one.

In any event, it might be appropriate to contact the Insurance carriers to increase the "agreed value " figures. The market is officially strong and the trend will continue in growing moving forward

[Policy Limits]

Just for reference that 1:28 was not a wrapper car, it had 1100 miles on it.

Good point. I've driven mine 300-ish miles per year for three years and have just over 1k miles. A car that's been driven once per month is usually better imo

[ACRSNK]

I like driving mine one of the most fun cars I have ever owner or driven I am at 19xx miles so far

- - - Updated - - -

I like driving mine one of the most fun cars I have ever owned or driven I am at 19xx miles so far

[Policy Limits]

Even non ACR Gen V cars are 200k!

[Scott_in_fl]

I don’t think the stickers and contrived Bernie “numbering” added a thing to the hammer price. Factory installed options and decals make a world of difference obviously. A dealer slapping them on and doing their own numbering.....not so much.

^^^ Agree with this but for ACR/TA.

[Policy Limits]

Nah that's a dealer sticker slapper too. The only authentic Special Edition cars are the 6 different ones produced by the manufacturer

[Scott_in_fl]

I hear 'ya, but pricing on ACR/TA will be strong. Maybe because of color and limited numbers.

[Policy Limits]

What's most remarkable is how these cars nearly doubled in value in just 36 months. It took Countach, Ford GT, Diablo and many other collector cars many more years or decades to do that.

[Scott_in_fl]

What are the FGT's doing? Same forum should be a good yardstick for what we're really looking at.

[Policy Limits]

Healthy hammers. I saw some 300k. Heritage Edition cars are about 400k. Two 2017 ones hammered for 7 figs

[Scott_in_fl]

Yeah NFGT is another world altogether. But 05/06 is more interesting for us.

[Policy Limits]

The 17 Gen V ACR SE cars appreciated faster than 05-06 FGT cars did. Eventually the SE snakes will be 1/2 mill

[Ronin47]

Agreed, though I was rooting for a bigger number nonetheless. The other contrived component is saying its number such and such of the ring cars. That was created by the dealer and not by the manufacturer. I personally would rather have your car than that one.

In any event, it might be appropriate to contact the Insurance carriers to increase the "agreed value " figures. The market is officially strong and the trend will continue in growing moving forward

No number on that vehicle indicating 1of 5 nurburing, no special badge what so ever. Just a standard gtsr with decal.

[Old School]

What's most remarkable is how these cars nearly doubled in value in just 36 months.

The economy could have something to do with that.

[ViperGeorge]

^^^ Agree with this but for ACR/TA.

Yup. Remember it was the ACR/TA that started this upward move when it sold for $231,000 at BJ two years ago plus buyer's commission. Viper Exchange currently has one for $219,000. There is one on eBay for $182,500 and another modified one was listed recently for $199,950 (no longer shows as far as I can tell so maybe it sold).

The MSRP on the ACR/TA was something around $126,000. Mine will never be worth big bucks, too many miles on her - 20,000. It is also not just a sticker car. Each ACR/TA is actually a GTC ACR painted in TA Orange with TA brakes and TA interior. They all have ACR suspension and extreme aero. The factory provided both ACR and TA decals, like putting the American flag on GTS-Rs.

Bill Pemberton built the car to be an economic track car, hence no fancy carbon fiber everywhere or too many other frills. They did come with the 12 speaker stereo although mine was upgraded by Woodhouse to the 18 speaker setup.

The ACR/TAs are the only GTC cars that were allowed to be identical to each other and they have TA options that other ACRs don't have. The color alone generates a lot of interest. None the less I didn't buy mine as an investment. I bought it to drive and track. Went to the track today in Colorado. Nice day, chilly, but nice. Car behaved very well.

[USAFPILOT]

what did the stryker red GTS sell for? I need the value of my 2015 Black GT to climb maybe just a little. that way I can keep driving it for free!

[Oh Three Z]

what did the stryker red GTS sell for? I need the value of my 2015 Black GT to climb maybe just a little. that way I can keep driving it for free!

220 for the stryker red 001 car

Another solid sale was a 2100 mile red GTS at 96K

High tide raises all ships

[ViperJon]

The 001 Stryker car was no ordinary Stryker red car. Besides being VIN 001 this car was previously auctioned off at BJ for charity.

It was purchased via Barrett-Jackson in 2012 by Scott Thomas, with proceeds of the sale benefiting the Austin Hatcher Foundation for Pediatric Cancer. Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne was present for the Viper’s final assembly, and he handed the Viper’s keys over to Scott Thomas, who personally took delivery. Ralph Gilles, SRT President and CEO, who pushed for the Viper’s return, signed the passenger sun visor of this historic 2013 SRT Viper GTS. Finished in the launch edition color of Stryker Red and packing 640hp with a 6-speed manual transmission, it presents incredibly well and turns heads everywhere. In addition to the original SRT Viper Media Kit, its offering includes photographs taken on the day of delivery with all the factory workers posing behind the car, the original manufacturers brochures and other memorabilia from the 2013 Viper launch event, including pictures of Sergio Marchionne personally handing the car over to Scott Thomas.

[Scott_in_fl]

Mac Senna w 250 miles for $950k. 650s at $140k.

05/06 Ford GT averaged $330k.

Couple of Testarossa's at $110k.

Recent model GT3RS $210k.

Final year ACR-E's fetched $230k.

On the whole, Vipers doing very well but mileage and production volume always going to be very important value determiners.

[ViperJon]

Seems like McLaren had a very weak showing. Under MSRP on them even the Senna.
That's what happens when you introduce a new model every month.

[Viper vince]

Who bought Voodoo 1 ? I would like to know why they paid so much. Does this bring the prices of the other Gen4 special editions up? Does it bring the price of the other Voodoo's up ?

[Policy Limits]

The economy could have something to do with that.

Suspect it's a minimal factor since the vast majority of all other production cars are depreciating assets even in a strong economy.

The SE cars check all the boxes for collectibility: hand made, 25th anniversary edition, numbered, last V10 made with a stick, final production year, race track records, etc. Even previous generations of the car stood out like that Gen 1 or the Special Edition Gen 4 cars.

[Viper vince]

Is there any way that we can watch it and hear what the Steve is saying about the Voodoo? I know it was a raffle car but to bring an extra $100,000 WOW!

[Policy Limits]

It was challenging to hear anything with those damn commercials ruining the show. And I hate the whole switching channels thing. Glad I figured out how to stream it on the phone. Would've missed it otherwise. I attend the one in the northeast in first person with the bidder license. It's a lot of fun.

[ViperJon]

I don't recall there being so many commercial interruptions in years past....and such lengthy ones. Literally missed at least 5-6 cars at a time going across during the breaks.

[Policy Limits]

What's most frustrating about it is the fact that they can split screen now. That way the entity paying to advertise still gets its exposure and the viewer can still watch the show. I believe discovery channel started it a bit but motor trend no dice.

[Bill Pemberton]

Dealer Slapper Sticker Car -- ACR/TA?? Man Policy at times you are just beyond hilarious, as not sure how a car approved and built by SRT/Dodge is a Dealer Slapper Sticker Car. Woodhouse did not want a clone to the Dealer Car shared with the others when the only difference was whose name was listed on the car. A call from the owner helped Dodge decide they would do a different one for us, and we scoped it all out with SRT/Marketing and, yes, upper management. Dodge made the plaques, made everything, and since we got some calls from folks high up in FCA stating what a great concept it was , we are more than content it was a wise choice. We did not win completely , because they would only approve 10 cars, I wanted 20. As noted above one owner sold his for 231K at Barrett Jackson and the die was set.

Bad mouthing our Dodge approved and built Limited Model does not make it worth less or yours worth more, both are exceptional , short run Snakes and they each have a unique history in that Dodge made only a few , special Dealer models in the last year of production. Surprise us all and leave it at that and move on knowing there are plenty of special Vipers and take a pause and relish in that.

[commandomatt]

I imagine that the rates to run a commercial are equal or higher than those for major sporting events. The audience is huge. Network does not give a shit about providing entertainment.....they just want to cash in.

Great to see some of those Vipers getting big numbers. I know that it doesn’t nessecarily mean that the real world pricing is affected much but it is still nice that they are getting some attention....something they really deserve.

[Scott_in_fl]

The SE cars check all the boxes for collectibility: hand made, 25th anniversary edition, numbered, last V10 made with a stick, final production year, race track records, etc. Even previous generations of the car stood out like that Gen 1 or the Special Edition Gen 4 cars.

All 2017 ACR-E's have those qualities but for the numbering aspect which, unlike most numbered editions in the world of collectible cars, was not very limited or differentiated. About 1/3 of all final year ACR-E's were numbered LE cars. About another 1/3 were 1-of-1 cars, and the last 1/3 were standard brochure cars. But they are all hand built, 25th Anny, last V10, track records, etc., etc.

'05'06 FGT shows us all we need to know. 4000 total cars in the two years, 340 heritage edition cars, the only LE (about 8% of the total production). The FGT LE had unique color scheme, unavailable to anyone else, but was otherwise the same exact car as the non-LE cars. Nearly 15 years out of production, and a low mile LE fetches anywhere from 10-20% more money than a non-LE car ($330k vs. $400k). But all are quite a bit more valuable than they sold for, primarily because they are all awesome, highly desirable and obviously quite a rare sight (especially these days).

Our Vipers are on a similar trajectory -- some would even argue are destined to shoot much higher just based on production volume alone (only about 750 ACR-E ever made). But LE is not going to be the massive differentiator alone. I think you will see some very unique, true 1-of-1 color combinations that will get big dollars as well (think Stryker colors, which none of the LE's took advantage of for some reason or another).

But regardless of all of the foregoing, mileage is going to be your biggest problem if resale is important to you. If you believe you have a valuable LE, then you cannot drive it if you want to maximize its future value. And what fun is that?

So, having an LE is a blessing and a curse at the same time. Why own it if you're not going to want to drive it for 10, 20, 30 years?

[ViperGeorge]

All 2017 ACR-E's have those qualities but for the numbering aspect which, unlike most numbered editions in the world of collectible cars, was not very limited or differentiated. About 1/3 of all final year ACR-E's were numbered LE cars. About another 1/3 were 1-of-1 cars, and the last 1/3 were standard brochure cars. But they are all hand built, 25th Anny, last V10, track records, etc., etc.

'05'06 FGT shows us all we need to know. 4000 total cars in the two years, 340 heritage edition cars, the only LE (about 8% of the total production). The FGT LE had unique color scheme, unavailable to anyone else, but was otherwise the same exact car as the non-LE cars. Nearly 15 years out of production, and a low mile LE fetches anywhere from 10-20% more money than a non-LE car ($330k vs. $400k). But all are quite a bit more valuable than they sold for, primarily because they are all awesome, highly desirable and obviously quite a rare sight (especially these days).

Our Vipers are on a similar trajectory -- some would even argue are destined to shoot much higher just based on production volume alone (only about 750 ACR-E ever made). But LE is not going to be the massive differentiator alone. I think you will see some very unique, true 1-of-1 color combinations that will get big dollars as well (think Stryker colors, which none of the LE's took advantage of for some reason or another).

But regardless of all of the foregoing, mileage is going to be your biggest problem if resale is important to you. If you believe you have a valuable LE, then you cannot drive it if you want to maximize its future value. And what fun is that?

So, having an LE is a blessing and a curse at the same time. Why own it if you're not going to want to drive it for 10, 20, 30 years?

True. I think the most expensive one i saw was a white ACR-E, Matte White It sold at BJ for $286,000!

By the way, I was surprised at the rather pedestrian cars that populated Saturday's docket. Maybe it is just my opinion but I thought there were many better cars earlier in the week that normally would have been sold on Saturday. Instead they were selling cars for $40-$50K on Saturday. Weird.

[nitromilt]

It got to be so obvious that the commercial were bordering excessive.... so each time they when on commercial break I timed them... (timer on my iPhone) the commercials were any where from 4+ minutes each time with the longest going just a tick over 5 minutes.... I understand that commercials pays the bills for tv stations.... but 5 minutes was nuts...

[ViperNC]

'05'06 FGT shows us all we need to know. 4000 total cars in the two years, 340 heritage edition cars, the only LE (about 8% of the total production). The FGT LE had unique color scheme, unavailable to anyone else, but was otherwise the same exact car as the non-LE cars. Nearly 15 years out of production, and a low mile LE fetches anywhere from 10-20% more money than a non-LE car ($330k vs. $400k). But all are quite a bit more valuable than they sold for, primarily because they are all awesome, highly desirable and obviously quite a rare sight (especially these days).

Our Vipers are on a similar trajectory -- some would even argue are destined to shoot much higher just based on production volume alone (only about 750 ACR-E ever made). But LE is not going to be the massive differentiator alone. I think you will see some very unique, true 1-of-1 color combinations that will get big dollars as well (think Stryker colors, which none of the LE's took advantage of for some reason or another).

Before I make my comment on your logic here, please know I LOVE the Viper and also love the Ford GT. I seriously doubt our Vipers will ever be on the same trajectory as the Ford GT. Very few cars are and the main reason is the history, heritage, and pedigree of the GT40 and Ford GT. Viper didn't win LeMans 4 years in a row beating Ferrari. Ford did. Viper didn't come back 50 years later and win LeMans. Ford did. Any speculation of the Viper being held in such high regards and on par with the Ford GT will leave that person wanting. I do think we'll see increased values for low mileage Vipers in the future, but time will tell if it will be anything of great significance. Both cars are awesome and I'm not putting down the Viper or its racing achievements. I'm lucky to have owned two Vipers thus far and will probably never sell the Gen 5. Hopefully one day I'll be able to afford the elusive Ford GT or at least a Superformance GT40.

[Exhlr8n]

True. I think the most expensive one i saw was a white ACR-E, Matte White It sold at BJ for $286,000!

By the way, I was surprised at the rather pedestrian cars that populated Saturday's docket. Maybe it is just my opinion but I thought there were many better cars earlier in the week that normally would have been sold on Saturday. Instead they were selling cars for $40-$50K on Saturday. Weird.

My thoughts exactly. A lot better cars too.

[Policy Limits]

not sure how a car approved and built by SRT/Dodge is a Dealer Slapper Sticker Car.

Did woodhouse put the ACR/TA sticker on the car? Did the manufacturer?


Love that orange paint & glad that it brought big bucks at a previous auction. Definitely not bad mouthing the car, or any snake. Just pointing out that there were 6 manufacturer special Edition cars and that wasn't one of them. It reminds me of the numbered Gerry Wood solid Edition cars.

[Policy Limits]

I seriously doubt our Vipers will ever be on the same trajectory as the Ford GT. Any speculation of the Viper being held in such high regards and on par with the Ford GT will leave that person wanting.

We must not be watching the same market.

[Voice of Reason]

Did woodhouse put the ACR/TA sticker on the car? Did the manufacturer?

Bills refusal time and time again to answer this simple yes/no question is answer enough.

[St Pete Viper ACR E]

True. I think the most expensive one i saw was a white ACR-E, Matte White It sold at BJ for $286,000!

By the way, I was surprised at the rather pedestrian cars that populated Saturday's docket. Maybe it is just my opinion but I thought there were many better cars earlier in the week that normally would have been sold on Saturday. Instead they were selling cars for $40-$50K on Saturday. Weird.

Yes I was just looking at the docket myself and thought the same:

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Docket/Scottsdale-2020/Collector-Cars/d114c99a-0e71-46b2-8cde-20a53c127270/01-19-2020/01-19-2020

[Bill Pemberton]

Well since according to two very high up FCA Execs , it was definitely a " Limited Model," made for a Dealer and they had to approve it . I think I will go with their approval and the Dodge build and let the money Collectors are willing to pay define things - instead of listening to the conspiracy theories you love to stir.

I am getting too mellow, all Vipers are getting worth more and more, and arguing about things I am fully aware you know nothing about is childish on my part, my apologies.

I need to grow up and not bait you , I just find your insinuations about Vipers other than yours, not being as genuine or valuable a bit silly.
Yet, I am being foolish because we are all passionate and for years I have commented on the best Viper out there is the one in the owner's garage. Time to move on, we are all passionate and of course the best Viper is what we have , though I think many of us are enjoying the rise in pricing --- since so many felt it would not happen.

Have a nice weekend.

[ViperNC]

We must not be watching the same market.

OK walk with me on this. The 2017 Red Ford GT sold for almost $1.5 Mil last night and dealer invoice is $450,000. A 2005 Ford Gt Blue/Silver Stripes sold for $450,000 yesterday and original sticker around $160,000. I recently saw a 2006 Ford Gt with 30,000 miles sell for $230,000. How many Vipers have you seen sell for an appreciated amount with that many miles? Have any 2017 ACR's tripled in value in 3 years? Or any Viper triple in value in 15 years for that matter?

Once again, not knocking the Viper. Just doing the math. I would love to be able to put 30,000 on my Viper and then sell it for more than I paid for it.

[ACRSNK]

I don’t think the stickers and contrived Bernie “numbering” added a thing to the hammer price. Factory installed options and decals make a world of difference obviously. A dealer slapping them on and doing their own numbering.....not so much.

Agreed as subtle as it may be it is more than obvious factory designations DO make a difference

[ACRSNK]

OK walk with me on this. The 2017 Red Ford GT sold for almost $1.5 Mil last night and dealer invoice is $450,000. A 2005 Ford Gt Blue/Silver Stripes sold for $450,000 yesterday and original sticker around $160,000. I recently saw a 2006 Ford Gt with 30,000 miles sell for $230,000. How many Vipers have you seen sell for an appreciated amount with that many miles? Have any 2017 ACR's tripled in value in 3 years? Or any Viper triple in value in 15 years for that matter?

Once again, not knocking the Viper. Just doing the math. I would love to be able to put 30,000 on my Viper and then sell it for more than I paid for it.

The blue silver FGT was a unique car with a unique story and owner and to answer your question regarding any Viper selling for triple its value the answer is YES and on more than one occasion

[ViperJon]

Look at the bright side. We could own McLaren's.

[Policy Limits]

Bills refusal time and time again to answer this simple yes/no question is answer enough.

Bingo.

[Policy Limits]

Look at the bright side. We could own McLaren's.

That's funny. And true. Holy depreciation batman

[zee]

That's funny. And true. Holy depreciation batman

It really is ridiculous. 1 year of ownership and it is pretty sad how bad these things hold value. The car is incredible though :). Having a tough time figuring out what to replace it with...

[commandomatt]

OK walk with me on this. The 2017 Red Ford GT sold for almost $1.5 Mil last night and dealer invoice is $450,000. A 2005 Ford Gt Blue/Silver Stripes sold for $450,000 yesterday and original sticker around $160,000. I recently saw a 2006 Ford Gt with 30,000 miles sell for $230,000. How many Vipers have you seen sell for an appreciated amount with that many miles? Have any 2017 ACR's tripled in value in 3 years? Or any Viper triple in value in 15 years for that matter?

Once again, not knocking the Viper. Just doing the math. I would love to be able to put 30,000 on my Viper and then sell it for more than I paid for it.

Cant do that walk with you. The NFGT was very limited from the get go with more orders than production. This car will most likely never see a depreciation but hard to compare it to much else other than limited Italians.

The 2005-6 Ford GTs are now 10 +years old. In the first few years there was zero increase in value. As a mater of fact, many dealers had a problem getting them sold and many did cut the cost in order to do so.

So if we compare the Gen Vs to this, they are doing better. I am not talking about the entire production but the later years. Special editions, well put together 1 of 1s and powerful colors like the Strykers will be seeing an increase over time and in 10 plus years could very well be up there with the Ford GTs (as they are today) values.

Thats my take

[ViperGeorge]

Bingo.

You guys are really missing the point with the ACR/TA. Whether the factory installed the TA decal or not who cares? They supplied it whether they installed it or not. Manufacturers regularly do this. It was common back in the day for them to deliver antennas and other stuff in the trunk for the dealer to install. Would you consider an ACR with the splitter extension installed not factory correct? It was supplied in a bag in the car.

Would you consider a Yenko Chevy a poser because the dealer did the work? Get real, I'd love to have one of those posers.

The real question is did the factory authorize the car as special. With the ACR/TA they did. They had to allow 10 identical GTC cars to be built. Unlike the Gerry Wood cars where he simply painted different stripes on each of his Black Strip edition cars so he could get them under the GTC program. You've heard Bill say that the factory had to authorize the car and was actively involved. So you are either calling Bill P. a liar or the car is in fact special.

We shall see which car is worth more over time your Roanoke Special Edition or the ACR/TA. I'm betting on the later.

[FrankBarba]

I love to drive my FGT, i'd trade my 96 GTS for something newer, but you know me....
I just talk....

[Patentlaw]

I find it all hilarious....

We have people who complain bitterly about others causing low prices through negative comments.
Then the same people go out.....and make negative comments on the possessions of others.

You can't make this stuff up.

[Voice of Reason]

George there has never been any proof that the TA badge was delivered with the car, before today no one has ever even said that. Obviously it was delivered somehow from FCA, but that delivery was in the form of a parts order for 10 TA badges. FCA allowed 10 identical ACRs to be made so that Woodhouse could have their own special edition. Theyre awesome cars and Im glad theyre resealing so well. I even think the orange looks better on the ACR. But since you called it out yes I think Bill is lying by omission where the TA badge came from.

I think I will go with their approval and the Dodge build and let the money Collectors are willing to pay define things

is some pretty good politician bullshit if you ask me.

Ive posted for a long time if anyone has actual facts to the contrary Ill shut up and apologize. But those involved with the build wont refute it. Im a data guy and facts not political bs matter to me.

Edit - formatting sucks on Bills quote above because this damn forum doesnt handle quotes or apostrophes correctly on iPhones.

[AZTVR]

I find it all hilarious....

We have people who complain bitterly about others causing low prices through negative comments.
Then the same people go out.....and make negative comments on the possessions of others.

You can't make this stuff up. Exactly my thoughts while reading the discussion of how other people's Vipers are not worthy, especially when the differentiators seem to be color combinations and the number of those combinations sold.

[Scott_in_fl]

ViperGeorge is correct that many special edition decals were provided in the trunk and not installed (think Corvette Pace Cars). But I also hear the point that others are making about the decal not coming "with the car" from the MFG. However, who cares? What if Woodhouse provided 10 other stickers with the car, that said "special edition" or "Woodhouse Special" or "Billy P Signature Series"??? The fact of the matter that it is a genuine ACR-E configured in a form that nobody else could configure. That enough is alone to make it official and collectible. Nobody else could configure 10 GTC cars exactly the same, and the color became locked out for them only -- one of the best colors available, btw and better than any LE color but for the snakeskin cars. Gerry Wood could not configure 10 identical cars. Nobody could.... But for the ACR/TA.

Call me crazy, but I do sincerely believe that this "story car" will end up being the most valuable series of them all (including all "official" LE cars).

[IHOP]

Exactly my thoughts while reading the discussion of how other people's Vipers are not worthy, especially when the differentiators seem to be color combinations and the number of those combinations sold.

I also agree! We need to be happy these cars are bringing good money no matter what year or model. It helps us all! On a side note some of the other saturday cars were horrible and I rally think if they would have run all the vipers on saturday the prices would have been even better!

[ViperNC]

Cant do that walk with you. The NFGT was very limited from the get go with more orders than production. This car will most likely never see a depreciation but hard to compare it to much else other than limited Italians.

The 2005-6 Ford GTs are now 10 +years old. In the first few years there was zero increase in value. As a mater of fact, many dealers had a problem getting them sold and many did cut the cost in order to do so.

So if we compare the Gen Vs to this, they are doing better. I am not talking about the entire production but the later years. Special editions, well put together 1 of 1s and powerful colors like the Strykers will be seeing an increase over time and in 10 plus years could very well be up there with the Ford GTs (as they are today) values.

Thats my take

Totally respect where you are coming from and I think you better illustrated my point even though you may not have realized it. You are correct the Ford GT is a very limited production run compared to the Viper and pretty much ALL of the available 2005-2006 cars available today have appreciated greatly in value. Even owners of higher mileage Ford GT's are making substantial money when they sell the car. Doesn't matter if it was a base model Ford GT, equipped with all four options, heritage GT, GTX1, etc: They all appreciated in value. You can't say that about the Viper as most have depreciated with a small percentage holding values/hopes of appreciating and a much smaller percentage have gone up in value. So looking at the total production run of each car and not just a few special cars, the Ford GT has a much higher yield percentage that can't be matched. That was my point.

I hope I'm wrong because I own a 1 of 1 car, but not thinking I'll ever make money on it. One can always hope though! And yes we're all very fortunate we don't own McLaren's! :lol2:

[ViperJon]

and better than any LE color but for the snakeskin cars.

Wow I didn’t know that.

[ViperGeorge]

George there has never been any proof that the TA badge was delivered with the car, before today no one has ever even said that. Obviously it was delivered somehow from FCA, but that delivery was in the form of a parts order for 10 TA badges. FCA allowed 10 identical ACRs to be made so that Woodhouse could have their own special edition. Theyre awesome cars and Im glad theyre resealing so well. I even think the orange looks better on the ACR. But since you called it out yes I think Bill is lying by omission where the TA badge came from.

I think I will go with their approval and the Dodge build and let the money Collectors are willing to pay define things

is some pretty good politician bullshit if you ask me.

Ive posted for a long time if anyone has actual facts to the contrary Ill shut up and apologize. But those involved with the build wont refute it. Im a data guy and facts not political bs matter to me.

Edit - formatting sucks on Bills quote above because this damn forum doesnt handle quotes or apostrophes correctly on iPhones.

Dude, you need to take a pill or something. Calling Bill P. a liar is ridiculous. He has forgotten more about Vipers and Dodges than you will ever know. I have known him for years and he has never lied. His passion for the Viper help bring our community things like the Gen IV ACR convertible, the ACR/TA, the Viper Rendezvous in Hastings, and other stuff. The Gen IV ACR convertible is one of the rarest snakes ever made. You are really getting hung up on some crazy stuff. Bill and the other big Viper dealers regularly spoke with Dodge and made recommendations on the Viper. Lying by omission isn't something Bill would do. ViperGeorge out.

[Bruce H.]

I'm not sure I can make the "market value" connection between hammer prices at B-J and what an owner could reasonably expect to get by selling elsewhere. To me it seems like a fantasy world masterfully created by B-J and bidders that they draw to their spectacle. When the ACR/TA sold for $220k or whatever Viper Exchange immediately raised the price of theirs to a similar level. They can use the B-J car to defend their asking price but may not expect or care if they actually ever sell it at close to that price, but rather use it to sell other models at top prices. And what is the likelihood that the B-J car could be resold at that price a second time? Maybe only at B-J? Don't know. On Auto Trader, I think not.

So where is the relevance with B-J hammer prices?

Or to restate, how relevant are B-J hammer prices?

[theviper]

Edit - formatting sucks on Bills quote above because this damn forum doesnt handle quotes or apostrophes correctly on iPhones.

It's not the forum or the rest of the world that sucks. It's Apple's pompousness, arrogance, and refusal to follow the rest of the world's norms and formatting. For example, try doing simple business apps on Apple...sucks. EMRs don't work on Apple. Hell, even micro USB (UNIVERSAL serial bus) is something Apple shuns. They won't let anyone fix their equipment but their own stores, and then overcharge their customers. Let's put blame where it appropriately should be placed.

[Scott_in_fl]

Jon, I was primarily referring to the base colors. All the LE base colors are white or black (but for SSG). We know from TA popularity that the orange is overwhelmingly favored. That will go a very long way to ensuring long term desirability.

[Scott_in_fl]

I'm not sure I can make the "market value" connection between hammer prices at B-J and what an owner could reasonably expect to get by selling elsewhere. To me it seems like a fantasy world masterfully created by B-J and bidders that they draw to their spectacle. When the ACR/TA sold for $220k or whatever Viper Exchange immediately raised the price of theirs to a similar level. They can use the B-J car to defend their asking price but may not expect or care if they actually ever sell it at close to that price, but rather use it to sell other models at top prices. And what is the likelihood that the B-J car could be resold at that price a second time? Maybe only at B-J? Don't know. On Auto Trader, I think not.

So where is the relevance with B-J hammer prices?

Or to restate, how relevant are B-J hammer prices?

Agree, but that is why I also specifically wanted to correlate the 2017 Viper prices to other models like FGT so that we can gauge how inflated the pricing is. However, the other prices were fairly inline with what we see elsewhere. So, are the Vipers the only inflated cars at BJ? And unmodded Supras?

[Policy Limits]

Online current list for VooDoo II.

It mentions that it would probably go for over 350k at barrett-jackson in the description

Guess the collector car auctions do effect the market in general in some way.

[Viper vince]

Why would Voodoo #1 bring $210,000 and does it bring the other 31 up as well?

[SilverACR]

Why would Voodoo #1 bring $210,000 and does it bring the other 31 up as well?

You can’t just buy one especially now. Yes all the Voodoos and probably G4ACRs see a bump now. This doesn’t mean if you list your car super high it flys off the shelf, but more owners likely will be holding out for bigger prices. Viper owner aren’t trying to move Honda’s they have a luxury item that most can afford to keep.

[USAFPILOT]

I'm not sure I can make the "market value" connection between hammer prices at B-J and what an owner could reasonably expect to get by selling elsewhere. To me it seems like a fantasy world masterfully created by B-J and bidders that they draw to their spectacle. When the ACR/TA sold for $220k or whatever Viper Exchange immediately raised the price of theirs to a similar level. They can use the B-J car to defend their asking price but may not expect or care if they actually ever sell it at close to that price, but rather use it to sell other models at top prices. And what is the likelihood that the B-J car could be resold at that price a second time? Maybe only at B-J? Don't know. On Auto Trader, I think not.

So where is the relevance with B-J hammer prices?

Or to restate, how relevant are B-J hammer prices?

I wonder if VE dropped the price on their McLaren Senna from 1.5M to 850K? Hehe

[Mark1107]

I love these forums:

41688

(considering I was one of the biggest agitators until I wasn’t winning friends and influencing people!) lol.

[FrankBarba]

I'm lost here. What is it about the Woodhouse TA's? Is it a sticker package or
is it a go fast package?

[ViperGarageElite]

Bill Pemberton got the ok from dodge manufactures to have 10 custom dealer cars made to his spects as a going away present of our beloved viper brand. Some people are questioning if the stickers were puy on at factory or at the dealership to authenticate the 10 cars as special. Bill is stand-up period,I haven,t posted in my 20 years of ownership but this thread against his dealer production cars made me weigh in. THESE CARS ARE SPECIAL TO THOSE WHO WERE LUCKY TO GET THEM..... They are special due to the fact that one of the premeir dealers got the go ahead from Dodge to have a unique car built . Who gives a S$%t where the sticker was put on , special spect,special dealer, special sticker LOL. Love it. I do not have one. Thanks Bill for all your help and your leadership for our beloved brand

[Murpowa]

Bill Pemberton got the ok from dodge manufactures to have 10 custom dealer cars made to his spects as a going away present of our beloved viper brand. Some people are questioning if the stickers were puy on at factory or at the dealership to authenticate the 10 cars as special. Bill is stand-up period,I haven,t posted in my 20 years of ownership but this thread against his dealer production cars made me weigh in. THESE CARS ARE SPECIAL TO THOSE WHO WERE LUCKY TO GET THEM..... They are special due to the fact that one of the premeir dealers got the go ahead from Dodge to have a unique car built . Who gives a S$%t where the sticker was put on , special spect,special dealer, special sticker LOL. Love it. I do not have one. Thanks Bill for all your help and your leadership for our beloved brand

Well said. Bill and Woodhouse did something right with the ACR/TA as it commanded one of the highest premiums at auction not long ago

[ViperGeorge]

I'm lost here. What is it about the Woodhouse TA's? Is it a sticker package or
is it a go fast package?

Neither. The cars were all painted TA Orange from the 2014 TA 1. They all had the TA interior, black with orange stitching and they all had the TA's steel brakes which many prefer on the track due to maintenance costs. They all have the ACR-Extreme Aero and full ACR suspension. All 10 cars are identical, something that was not allowed on GTC cars. They all came with ACR and TA decals and numbered dash plaques. Bill, as he stated, had to get Dodge's approval to get the cars built. As he said he wanted to do 20 but Dodge only allowed 10.

By the way they had MSRPs in the mid to high $120s. I don't remember the exact number and am too lazy to go and look. Bill wanted a unique car that people could take to the track. A few people bought them and didn't drive them though. The one that sold at BJ-Scotsdale in 2018 had 125 miles on it. The one currently for sale at Viper Exchange for $219,950 has something like 500 miles on it. Mine on the other hand has 20,000 miles on it. 3 One Lap of Americas and one 2 week trip through Canada and the Pacific Northwest with the local VOA.

[ViperTony]

I find it all hilarious....

We have people who complain bitterly about others causing low prices through negative comments.
Then the same people go out.....and make negative comments on the possessions of others.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amen!

[SRT_BluByU]

Bill P. is awesome! Everyone knows Woodhouse cars command the highest prices no matter the model. :United_States:

[Bryan Savage]

I want in on all the arguing too!!

41694

[Fatboy 18]

Great thread :smilielol::smilielol::smilielol:

[Fatboy 18]

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2017-DODGE-VIPER-GTS-R-NURBURGRING-EDITION-1-239365

Ring edition:dude3::dude3::dude3:

[ThunderbisonACR]

Cant do that walk with you. The NFGT was very limited from the get go with more orders than production. This car will most likely never see a depreciation but hard to compare it to much else other than limited Italians.

The 2005-6 Ford GTs are now 10 +years old. In the first few years there was zero increase in value. As a mater of fact, many dealers had a problem getting them sold and many did cut the cost in order to do so.

So if we compare the Gen Vs to this, they are doing better. I am not talking about the entire production but the later years. Special editions, well put together 1 of 1s and powerful colors like the Strykers will be seeing an increase over time and in 10 plus years could very well be up there with the Ford GTs (as they are today) values.

Thats my take

Production numbers:
~675 Gen IV ACR's
~4000 1st Gen FGT's
~1350 2nd Gen FGT's

Not saying production numbers are the only factor in terms of future value, but 2010 was the best year for Gen IV, and they only made ~250 ACR's that year, including the special editions and ACR-X's. Maybe that has something to do with the higher prices for the 2010's at BJ this weekend...

[LifeIsGood]

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2017-DODGE-VIPER-GTS-R-NURBURGRING-EDITION-1-239365

Ring edition:dude3::dude3::dude3:

That's a lot of stickers. Probably woth $1M :United_Kingdom:

[St Pete Viper ACR E]

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2017-DODGE-VIPER-GTS-R-NURBURGRING-EDITION-1-239365

Ring edition:dude3::dude3::dude3:

I was disappointed by the final hammer price on this one!

Must be because the stickers were put on by the dealer (JOKE!).