Removing the Transmission Shifter Plate top of trans

[Jack B]

This is a takeoff on the recent thread asking for help on removing the shifter plate on top of the trans. There is a plastic insulating bushing under the plate that can fail, when that happens it can cause erratic shifting that sort of mimics serious mechanical problems. The previous thread was looking for a way to remove the plate from inside the car, versus lowering the trans.

It was common on the Gen 1 and Gen 2 to remove the rivets holding the rubber boot so you could access the shifter plate. You would than replace the fixed rivets with rivet-screws. I trimmed part of the console body that is under the console trim plate, however, there is one rivet that sits under the body of the console, in effect, you cannot access that last rivet without removing the console body. In other words you have to remove the main console body to remove all the rivets.

I am fairly sure that once I remove the main console and drill out the last rivet, the boot that covers the shifter plate can be made removable. I am fairly sure with a crows-foot wrench you can than remove the shifter plate without removing the console or lowering the trans. There is another advantage to removing the plate, it will make removal and installation of the the trans easier since you will have more clearance on the top side of the trans.

One problem with the Gen 5 is the console is a way harder to remove than on the G1/G2. I will get to that last rivet and take some pics. At least we will know if we can get to the shifter plate from the top side without removing the console. It may be a couple weeks, but, I will continue this post. To clarify, you will have to remove the console one time to make the boot removable.

[SLP]

I'm not around my gen v right now which happens to have the trans out on it. I got lucky and my whole shifter column was loose because the viper tech in Roseburg Oregon Lithia dodge didn't install it correctly so I just turned it out by hand and did not need a crowsfoot.

Just throwing out some ideas because I'd like to set mine up for easy removal in the future: 1) Can that stubborn rivet be drilled out from below with a long drill bit when the trans is out? 2) Can that single remaining rivet be left in place and rivet-screws be placed in the other areas, and then when you want to remove that column, can you could just pull the rubber to the side and use a crowsfoot? 3) Can we replace that rubber boot with another material/structure that achieves the same purpose and is easier to remove? 4) What is the function of that rubber inner boot anyways? I might be missing the picture here but those are some ideas that I have had bouncing around.

[stradman]

This is a takeoff on the recent thread asking for help on removing the shifter plate on top of the trans. There is a plastic insulating bushing under the plate that can fail, when that happens it can cause erratic shifting that sort of mimics serious mechanical problems. The previous thread was looking for a way to remove the plate from inside the car, versus lowering the trans.

It was common on the Gen 1 and Gen 2 to remove the rivets holding the rubber boot so you could access the shifter plate. You would than replace the fixed rivets with rivet-screws. I trimmed part of the console body that is under the console trim plate, however, there is one rivet that sits under the body of the console, in effect, you cannot access that last rivet without removing the console body. In other words you have to remove the main console body to remove all the rivets.

I am fairly sure that once I remove the main console and drill out the last rivet, the boot that covers the shifter plate can be made removable. I am fairly sure with a crows-foot wrench you can than remove the shifter plate without removing the console or lowering the trans. There is another advantage to removing the plate, it will make removal and installation of the the trans easier since you will have more clearance on the top side of the trans.

One problem with the Gen 5 is the console is a way harder to remove than on the G1/G2. I will get to that last rivet and take some pics. At least we will know if we can get to the shifter plate from the top side without removing the console. It may be a couple weeks, but, I will continue this post. To clarify, you will have to remove the console one time to make the boot removable.

We had to drill the sheet metal under the center console to get to the last bolt on the shifter. That's fine as hole is then hidden under trim etc. Changing shifter has made a difference.

[Jack B]

I'm not around my gen v right now which happens to have the trans out on it. I got lucky and my whole shifter column was loose because the viper tech in Roseburg Oregon Lithia dodge didn't install it correctly so I just turned it out by hand and did not need a crowsfoot.

Just throwing out some ideas because I'd like to set mine up for easy removal in the future: 1) Can that stubborn rivet be drilled out from below with a long drill bit when the trans is out? 2) Can that single remaining rivet be left in place and rivet-screws be placed in the other areas, and then when you want to remove that column, can you could just pull the rubber to the side and use a crowsfoot? 3) Can we replace that rubber boot with another material/structure that achieves the same purpose and is easier to remove? 4) What is the function of that rubber inner boot anyways? I might be missing the picture here but those are some ideas that I have had bouncing around.

I had the same thought about drilling out the rivet from below. I am pulling the trans, therefore will know in the near future. If you do not remove all the rivets you cannot access the shifter plate, the caveat is, removing the console might help in that case, but, that partially defeats the purpose of making the boot removable.

The inner boot is the actual seal, the outer boot is for looks. Just for clarity, you can remove the shifter shaft with a crows foot by slipping it between the shaft and the opening in the inner boot.

[Jack B]

We had to drill the sheet metal under the center console to get to the last bolt on the shifter. That's fine as hole is then hidden under trim etc. Changing shifter has made a difference.

Did he try a crows foot wrench, that did work on earlier Gen's.

[stradman]

Did he try a crows foot wrench, that did work on earlier Gen's.

I don't know what he tried, but he said he just couldn't get access the last bolt. So I told him just simply drill a hole in the sheet metal over the bolt -as it made perfect sense to me, rather than drop tranny etc. And as I said you can't see the hole anyway once trim gets put back on.....

[Jack B]

I was able to take out the 7 O'clock rivet from the top without removing the console. The rivet shafts were easy to get out, I just used a small punch. The rivet body also has to be punched out, I used a small chisel from the rivet side for that part.

i ran out of time, but, I am fairly sure I will be able to remove the trans shifter plate from the top. I took some pics and will post them later in the week. This is sort of an exercise (I was pulling the trans to begin with) , however, if it works, it will sure make it simple to change the shifter plate if that plastic insulator fails.

For those that haven't pulled the trans, you have to angle the trans down (pull the cross-member) to get by the shifter tunnel as you pull to the rear. The shifter lever is what interferes with the top of the tunnel. By pulling the shifter plate, you get an extra 1-1/2" clearance, therefore, puling the plate should help with the trans removal/install. The difficulty of the trans removal will vary by the type of header/exhaust, that is what limits the down angle on the trans, the exhaust hitting the frame.

[Old School]

I replaced the plastic bushing with a bronze one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shifter-Cup-Bushing-for-GM-83-02-Camaro-Firebird-1982-1995-S10-S15-T4-T5-T56/163514013147?hash=item261231d5db:g:T-QAAOSwPrdcUCTB

[Jack B]

I replaced the plastic bushing with a bronze one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shifter-Cup-Bushing-for-GM-83-02-Camaro-Firebird-1982-1995-S10-S15-T4-T5-T56/163514013147?hash=item261231d5db:g:T-QAAOSwPrdcUCTB

there are mixed reviews on whether the metal bushing is worth the rattle. Does yours have much rattle or transmitted vibrations?

[Old School]

there are mixed reviews on whether the metal bushing is worth the rattle. Does yours have much rattle or transmitted vibrations?

No rattles or vibration in 15k miles.

The original nylon bushing was glued in. The easier way to remove it was to knock the roll pin out that attaches to shifter cup in the tail-housing so you can pry/cut out the old bushing on the work bench. This also keeps any pieces from falling into the trans.

[Jack B]

I finished my mini-project, here is the summary:

1. The shifter shaft can be removed with a 3/4" crows-foot through the boot (see picture #1). Note the electricians tape keeps the crows-foot from following off of the extension.

2.The shifter boot can be removed from the top side. You have to punch out the shaft of the rivet and use a small chisel to knock out the head of the rivet (see picture #2)

3. There are two reasons for removing the boot:

A. For removal of the trans shifter top plate. This allows you to replace the shifter/trans plastic bushing without pulling the trans. You still have to lower the trans (drop the cross member) to remove the back right bolt on the trans top plate. The other three bolts can be moved from the top side with the boot removed.

B. Removing the trans shifter plate makes the trans removal/install a little bit easier. On my car the trans shiftercv plate/arm rips the thermal insulation when you pull the trans to the rear during removal.

Crows Foot Taped to the Extension

41811


Shifter Boot

41812


Boot Removed (The plastic surrounding the boot was trimmed)

41813

[donb]

Looking forward to pics Jack. Did you go with metal or (stock) plastic?

My shifter has about 1/16" - 1/8" play in it at 28k miles so I'm thinking replacing the bushing is next.

[Jack B]

The pictures have been added, two posts up.

[sharmut]

Jack, do you think the plastic bushing is accessible without removing the trans?
As for reinstalling the rubber boot, any reason rivet-nuts couldn't be used?

[donb]

I believe he mentioned that one of the 4 bolts on the top shifter plate can't come off unless the transmission is dropped or the center console is removed.

[sharmut]

@donb, corrected my question, I meant to say remove the transmission.

[donb]

@sharmut From what I've been reading, once the shift plate is off you can access the bushing but need to be careful to not drop any part of it into the transmission.

I recall reading somewhere that the block the bushing goes into can be removed by driving out a pin (this makes it easier to change the bushing). I'm not sure on how to drive the pin out and what that might require though.

Are you planning on using the stock plastic or a metal bushing?

[Jack B]

Jack, do you think the plastic bushing is accessible without removing the trans?
As for reinstalling the rubber boot, any reason rivet-nuts couldn't be used?

You have a clean view of the bushing from the top side. I will try to pull the bushing from above and let you know.

I am going to use rivet nuts except for two of the fasteners, they are not accessible (blind bottom side). I have to think about those two. I will probably add two holes and use rivet nuts.

For clarity, I did not remove the center console. On a lift with an impact tool it takes a max of 20 min to drop the cross member. I did not want to remove the console (to drill an access hole), just thought dropping the cross member was easier.

[sharmut]

@sharmut From what I've been reading, once the shift plate is off you can access the bushing but need to be careful to not drop any part of it into the transmission.

I recall reading somewhere that the block the bushing goes into can be removed by driving out a pin (this makes it easier to change the bushing). I'm not sure on how to drive the pin out and what that might require though.

Are you planning on using the stock plastic or a metal bushing?

Have not decided yet, leaning towards plastic on the TA to retain it's street manners.

[Jack B]

Here is a picture of the bushing with the trans removed. The bushing in my spare trans looks as though it is glued in place. It will be difficult to remove with the trans in the car. i am going to pull my trans Thursday. Before I pull the trans I will see if I can remove (trans in car) the shaft/well holding the bushing. If this can be done, it saves us the time pulling the trans for changing the bushing. The trans removal is not that difficult, but, it does require a lift and GOOD trans jack.

41821

[SLP]

.... The trans removal is not that difficult, but, it does require a lift and GOOD trans jack.

FYI I was able to remove the transmission with a harbor freight trans jack and the car on jack stands. Check out my thread post #52 for a few tips
https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/25039-Gen-V-Self-Install-Heads-Cam-Valvetrain-Transmission-Clutch

[Jack B]

FYI I was able to remove the transmission with a harbor freight trans jack and the car on jack stands. Check out my thread post #52 for a few tips
https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/25039-Gen-V-Self-Install-Heads-Cam-Valvetrain-Transmission-Clutch

For me, that is way too difficult and extends the in/out time, however, I have done the same. My Harbor Freight jack always leaked, it put a lot of undue stress on the input shaft. I do not know if you have installed a NthMoto clutch on the ground, but, the long hub makes it a little harder, if you nick the hub/input shaft you are going to have shifting issues.

Not that it matters, however, I was doing the same (non viper), I gave the trans a hard push forward and the car partially came off the the jack stands, it came down on one corner and broke my collar bone. Like you said, it can be done, it is just a degree harder and not as safe.

[donb]

Here is a picture of the bushing with the trans removed. The bushing in my spare trans looks as though it is glued in place. It will be difficult to remove with the trans in the car. i am going to pull my trans Thursday. Before I pull the trans I will see if I can remove (trans in car) the shaft/well holding the bushing. If this can be done, it saves us the time pulling the trans for changing the bushing. The trans removal is not that difficult, but, it does require a lift and GOOD trans jack.

41821

Jack,

In this picture, do you recall how much idle movement the block that the bushing goes into has?

I'm wondering if I'm overthinking my situation, and that there is just normal play in the linkage.

[Steve M]

Are you guys absolutely sure your nylon bushing is broken? I only ask because I went with a bronze bushing on my old Camaro with a T-56, and it greatly increased NVH in the cabin. Yeah, the bronze one wasn't going to break, but I'm not sure the extra noise was worth it.

[Old School]

Before I pull the trans I will see if I can remove (trans in car) the shaft/well holding the bushing.


If you put the trans in 1st or 2nd it should rotate that shaft around and make it easier to drive the roll pin out in the car. When I removed mine (trans out of the car), it just took a few light taps with a hammer and punch.

[Jack B]

Are you guys absolutely sure your nylon bushing is broken? I only ask because I went with a bronze bushing on my old Camaro with a T-56, and it greatly increased NVH in the cabin. Yeah, the bronze one wasn't going to break, but I'm not sure the extra noise was worth it.

1. I forgot to mention, your install post is the Mona Lisa of posts, what a great write up, I had not seen it previously.

2. I am also trying to decide whether to replace the plastic bushing with a metallic bushin. I have already broke a plastic bushing. You are right, when that bushing breaks, there is a huge change in the feel. There is another post within this thread, that opinion is there is not a big diff in the feel of the metal bushing - what do your think.

[Jack B]

If you put the trans in 1st or 2nd it should rotate that shaft around and make it easier to drive the roll pin out in the car. When I removed mine (trans out of the car), it just took a few light taps with a hammer and punch.

I pulled the trans yesterday and forgot to try and punch the pin out with the trans in the car. It may be possible while in the car, at a minimum I will post a pic with the plate off and the trans in the car. I tested the pin with a punch, mine is in fairly tight.

[Jack B]

The most interesting point about removing the trans plate is how much easier it makes the trans removal. The G5 tunnel is unique in how close the trans plate is to the top and left side of the tunnel. If the car's exhaust does not allow the engine to drop far enough, the trans removal/install is difficult. This is a variable, the type of exhaust system directly affects how far the engine will drop.

just one more heads-up, when removing the cross member (lowering trans) make sure you loosen the air box tubes and leave the hood partially open, otherwise you could possibily damage the throttle bodies.

[Steve M]

1. I forgot to mention, your install post is the Mona Lisa of posts, what a great write up, I had not seen it previously.

Heh...thanks. Spent longer on that than I care to admit (both the project and the writeup).


2. I am also trying to decide whether to replace the plastic bushing with a metallic bushin. I have already broke a plastic bushing. You are right, when that bushing breaks, there is a huge change in the feel. There is another post within this thread, that opinion is there is not a big diff in the feel of the metal bushing - what do your think.

Well, chances are that if you already broke the nylon bushing, you'll probably break it again. So the question is whether or not you want to go through all of this again at some point in the future, or do it once and be done with it?

Based on what I remember of doing the bronze bushing in my Camaro, it was pretty much a press fit to get it set in place. While not impossible to remove, it would have been very difficult at best. If you can figure out how to get that roll pin in and out, that may be a non-issue. At worst, you'd just have to replace that whole shifter cup assembly.

As I get older, I have less tolerance for NVH inducing mods. Your car with your mods has to be loud as all hell, so you may not even notice it, although I would say my Camaro also fell into the "loud as all hell" category as well. It wasn't a rattling sound, more of a mechanical whirring, similar to what I've experienced with my Nth Moto clutch. Some people may even like it.

[Jack B]

I decided to go with the metallic bushing, the pin holding the bushing's metal cup came out fairly easy after a couple of taps. I also decided to remove the skip shift solenoid and plug the hole.

[stradman]

Where does one get those metallic bushings for future reference.?

[Old School]

Where does one get those metallic bushings for future reference.?

I got mine here:

I replaced the plastic bushing with a bronze one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shifter-Cup-Bushing-for-GM-83-02-Camaro-Firebird-1982-1995-S10-S15-T4-T5-T56/163514013147?hash=item261231d5db:g:T-QAAOSwPrdcUCTB

It was a snug, not tight fit. I glued it in place with some RTV so if I didn't like it I could easily replace it.

[Jack B]

I got mine here:


It was a snug, not tight fit. I glued it in place with some RTV so if I didn't like it I could easily replace it.

That seller had an "Out of Stock" notice. I put his PN in the Ebay search box and another seller showed up.

[Jack B]

Some up dates, some very interesting.

1. Most of the after-market bushings (ebay/amazon) are not a Tremec/oem product.

2. I have a plastic bushing and a brass bushing from a company called Amp. The shifter ball definitely has more play in the after-market bushings versus the oem bushing.

3. The metallic bushing has caused some trans jams due to a diff in the top radius versus the oem bushing. This comes from a Tremec specialist (John Donoto)

4. A replacement bushing should be epoxied in place. Tremic has a special epoxy for this purpose, the cost is approx $30. Knowing this fact seems to say, why not replace the cup and bushing assembly versus, just the bushing.

After looking at all options, is seems the best option for a failed bushing is to go with a Tremec or Mopar replacement and that is the assembly of the cup and the bushing.

[ZeeViper]

i would suggest getting a bushing made out of PEEK, its a very hard polymer that can be machined to tight tolerances. Any machine shop that has a lathe could turn these in a jiffy at a cheap cost. just my two cents on the issue, as i've dealt with broken/worn nylon bushings as well as the rattle of a bronze bushing.

[Jack B]

i would suggest getting a bushing made out of PEEK, its a very hard polymer that can be machined to tight tolerances. Any machine shop that has a lathe could turn these in a jiffy at a cheap cost. just my two cents on the issue, as i've dealt with broken/worn nylon bushings as well as the rattle of a bronze bushing.

My guess is the oem bushing is a delrin type plastic which is close to the durability of metal.

[theacr_viper]

My guess is the oem bushing is a delrin type plastic which is close to the durability of metal.

Thanks for the detailed write up Jack. looks like I'm going to drill a way through hole to get the last bolt as I don't have time for my next Time Attack. But how to replace the failed cup bushing at the end? any specific tools ?

Thanks,

[Jack B]

Nothing special is needed