Smoke on Decel Too much Oil

[Shiner]

https://youtu.be/7JiPUqIoe4U

This is a 97 Heads and Cam Car. Any idea about the white smoke at the end? We did about 15-16 dyno runs. The white smoke was worst the first couple of runs. I’m thinking it’s just unburnt fuel as it’s falling to the ground. I run a Vent to Atmosphere -12 AN dual catch can. Pulled plugs 1 and 3 and they look good.

Any ideas? Greg Good did these heads less than 10 months/ 1000 miles so I’m doubting issues with them. The car itself has 22k miles.

Also car made 567 on dynojet224 and 586 on Mainline. Thought that was strange as jets normally read highest. Car runs really good, was tuned by Torrie. I haven’t done a leak down or or compression test as the car makes good power and have not suspected issues.

The oil looks too be 1-2qts over the MAX mark, 1/2” over or so. Could that be causing the smoke? I did see it driving today that it would smoke on decel from a High RPM stint. I’m using 15-50 Driven XP6 oil. A Shop did the oil change.

[kriskyk]

White smoke generally means it's burning coolant

If it was fuel you would be able to smell it

[Fatboy 18]

White Smoke is likely from Synthetic Oil. Hard Braking?

Check oil level in pan, make sure it's not overfilled,

Do you have a catch can set up?

Sump pan Baffle plates?

I used to get the same thing, fitted a catch can, no more issues.

Here's a Video of my car on the mulsanne straight, I floored the gas pedal for a bit then backed off and braked, thought I had blown the engine!

Fitted a catch can, job done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6smnVTEQIHg

Forward video to about 3.15

[Shiner]

It appears my engine is overfilled by 2 QTS.

I have two vent to atmosphere catch cans and there is nothing but water in them mostly.

[Fatboy 18]

Well the Overfill will do it,
Do you have a catch can from your PCV outlet? (Why they call it a Valve beats me, its just a nylon reducing tube in a rubber grommet).

https://live.staticflickr.com/7776/26993985062_35eec97506_z.jpg

[Shiner]

I don’t have a PCV system anymore, I vent to atmosphere

[kriskyk]

How's your coolant bottle fill level look?

[Shiner]

Looks fine to me Fascia and Head Tank

[Shiner]

Here is my oil level

[Shiner]

Anyone?

[kriskyk]

Drain the oil and measure how much is actually in there refill with the correct amount and retest

[dave6666]

Drain the oil and measure how much is actually in there refill with the correct amount and retest

Too simple.

[Fatboy 18]

Hard to drain all the oil as there will always be oil in the front oil cooler rad, also in the Oil filter. But easy to remove most of it :)

Its never too early for a Oil change, just drain and refill with fresh. :)

[Shiner]

Hard to drain all the oil as there will always be oil in the front oil cooler rad, also in the Oil filter. But easy to remove most of it :)

Its never too early for a Oil change, just drain and refill with fresh. :)

Too simple.

[ICPREY]

Suck out the excess oil via the dip stick tube with a fluid evacuator. Good tool to have if you don't already have one.

[Shiner]

Who sells?

[Lalmeida617]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwjp-8uUgurmAhXXG80KHWrUAXwQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FEWK-Pneumatic-Changer-Extractor-Remover%2Fdp%2FB01KEZ76PM&usg=AOvVaw1uteSNwoI9ce9C60Fy7G5j

U can also get the mityvac versions. Shop around. Available everywhere.

[ICPREY]

Who sells?

Harbor freight, Mityvac, Amazon. I use it mostly for my lawn/snow equipment oil changes.

[Shiner]

So I drained the oil and filled with the correct amount ( 8 QTS).

I also changed all O2 Sensors and Plugs/Wires... I went for a drive and the smoke on engine braking is still there, its quite a bit of smoke. I reached out to Greg and he responded pretty quickly saying that its not the valve seals or guides (that they are viton seals and he honed the guides perfectly). I looked down the intake on each side and it was pretty dry, no oil puddles or anything, barely any film at all. For what its worth I am running dual catch cans that vent to atmosphere. I went ahead and did a compression test and the following results (dry test) were achieved:

1) 157psi
2) 155psi
3) 160psi
4) 160psi
5) 165psi
6) 160psi
7) 160psi
8) 160psi
9) 162psi
10) 160psi

The factory specifies 155-170 is the normal, allowing for a 25% variance of loss between highest/lowest. The test was done with 4 cranks of the engine. If I crank it until the gauge maxes out they were 185-193psi (highest to lowest)..

To me these are good numbers, Greg Good was suggesting it was broken ring lands which would sickening if true. The car is a 1997 Viper GTS Gen 3 Heads and Cam car. I have borescoped the motor many times and have not noticed any scoring or broken pistons.

What else could this smoke be???? I have no PCV system at all. I have .027 MLS head gaskets with ARP head studs. Because the heads were milled, the intake did not want to sit properly so the thermostat was grinded on so it could rest on the runners properly. I have checked the other vacuum lines and they are dry.. Coolant levels are fine.

Its going in for a leak down test at the Viper Exchange tomorrow...

Let me know.. Thanks!

[GTS Dean]

NVM....

[Shiner]

NVM....

What is NVM?

[kriskyk]

Head gasket and or head lift etc....

[GTS Dean]

nevermind. I had typed a response, but then re-read your post and there was more info than my initial scan.

[Martyb]

My old car did the same thing right after heads and cam. Used the high end valve seals, discovered they didn’t work as well as the oem. Changed them all back to oem problem solved. Not saying that’s your issue but all of the symptoms on my car were identical to yours.

[Shiner]

nevermind. I had typed a response, but then re-read your post and there was more info than my initial scan.


My old car did the same thing right after heads and cam. Used the high end valve seals, discovered they didn’t work as well as the oem. Changed them all back to oem problem solved. Not saying that’s your issue but all of the symptoms on my car were identical to yours.

How did you know it was the seals? Who did the heads? These Compression readings were taken while the car was cold. Manual calls for 155-170psi, with 25% variance allowance.

Like I said though if I kept cranking to achieve max psi, I can get up to 190psi on all cylinders.

[Martyb]

We replaced all of the seals with oem, no more smoke on decel. Heads were done by PBJ in St. Louis.

[Martyb]

Did you pull and inspect all 10 plugs?

[Shiner]

nevermind. I had typed a response, but then re-read your post and there was more info than my initial scan.


Did you pull and inspect all 10 plugs?

Spark plugs looked fine, you had the Viton seals?

[Martyb]

It was years ago, but I believe that’s what we had originally.

[ViperTony]

Shiner, this used to happen to me on my GenII but only under hard-braking on the track (or some spirited driving/braking in Mexico). I added this CCV ail/oil separator and it solved it. I know its not the same conditions as yours (yours happened on the dyno?) but thought it may help. https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/181-GenII-CCV-Air-Oil-Seperator?highlight=catch Interestingly enough I never caught a drop of oil with my other PCV catch can (from the valve covers).

[Shiner]

Shiner, this used to happen to me on my GenII but only under hard-braking on the track (or some spirited driving/braking in Mexico). I added this CCV ail/oil separator and it solved it. I know its not the same conditions as yours (yours happened on the dyno?) but thought it may help. https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/181-GenII-CCV-Air-Oil-Seperator?highlight=catch Interestingly enough I never caught a drop of oil with my other PCV catch can (from the valve covers).
Mines capped off

[Shiner]

Did a compression and leak down, car passed both tests. Car was also borescoped and cylinder walls looked fine. All inspections and tests are being done at Viper Exchange.

Changing the viton valve seals with OEM pieces.

[Shiner]

1- PCV deleted
2- Passed compression test
3- Passed leak down test
4- Valve seals were replaced with OEM (previously Viton)
5- Brake Booster line was checked no oil in the hose


Car doesn't smoke as bad, but there is still some smoke on decel. The car that was following when dealership was troubleshooting stated they were not sure if the smoke was actually coming from the tailpipes or not. Honestly with no input into the intake and passing the compression and leakdown, I am at a loss on what it could be at this point. The car has a catch can on each side, when I drain, noting but water comes out. Car doesn't burn coolant or oil.

[Martyb]

Any pics of your pcv system and catch can routing lines?

[Lalmeida617]

Could it be your catalytic converters? I assume high flow or delete?

[Shiner]

41981

This is my current crank case venting set up.

Unfortunately, I am probably picking up the car on Monday.


Leak Down Test- Passed
Compression Test- Passed
Borescoped- Passed
Coolant System Pressure Test- Passed
Valve Seals - Replaced


The shop wants to now tear down the engine to inspect the rings. The motor has never been sprayed, boosted, never been to a race track...has 22,000 miles. The only thing I can think of is my crank case venting is incorrect. I do have the CCV and its intake manifold ports capped off. Picture attached. Had to put the viton seals on again as the OEMS didnt fit around the valve guides.

[ViperTony]

I bet if you did this, https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/181-GenII-CCV-Air-Oil-Seperator?highlight=vipertony then you'd either see your can catch oil some oil This setup allows the oil to be caught while still maintaining vacuum for the CCV. If the can is catching too much oil it could be another issue. On my Gen2, I only get oil in this can during a track day with a lot of hard acceleration/braking. Maybe first try uncapping your CCV and return to stock whereby it Tees into the intake manifold, see if there's a difference then try catching to a can.

[Shiner]

so i basically i dont have any vacuum on my crank case and i need it.

[Shiner]

I bet if you did this, https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/181-GenII-CCV-Air-Oil-Seperator?highlight=vipertony then you'd either see your can catch oil some oil This setup allows the oil to be caught while still maintaining vacuum for the CCV. If the can is catching too much oil it could be another issue. On my Gen2, I only get oil in this can during a track day with a lot of hard acceleration/braking. Maybe first try uncapping your CCV and return to stock whereby it Tees into the intake manifold, see if there's a difference then try catching to a can.

I looked at your thread and I basically have Option #2, what were you doing with your valve covers? Mine are drilled Gen 3 covers and the lines from each side are going to a catch can (two catch cans).

[Fatboy 18]

That link Viper Tony posted is pretty much my set up. (Option 1)
So I have a Air Oil Separator catch can pulling Vacuum.
Front of rocker box covers to a secondary can venting to atmosphere.

So I think your problem may be internal engine pressure

[Shiner]

That link Viper Tony posted is pretty much my set up. (Option 1)
So I have a Air Oil Separator catch can pulling Vacuum.
Front of rocker box covers to a secondary can venting to atmosphere.

So I think your problem may be internal engine pressure

Rocker box? The Valve covers? This is my current setup...wont i need a PCV valve? If not, it would introduce a massive vacuum leak

41989

[GTS Dean]

That's a super sanitary install. Very nice!

[Fatboy 18]

Oh Wow, that's pretty.

Rocker box covers = Valve covers. Sorry I'm an old British Biker and the language differences sometimes get confused :D

Right,the PCV (Valve) is not a Valve its just a hollow tube with one end slightly reduced in internal diameter
https://live.staticflickr.com/7776/26993985062_35eec97506_c.jpg[/url]

This is where I have my can located
https://live.staticflickr.com/7572/27088408775_aa658e713a_c.jpg

[ViperTony]

I looked at your thread and I basically have Option #2, what were you doing with your valve covers? Mine are drilled Gen 3 covers and the lines from each side are going to a catch can (two catch cans).

I have this for the valve covers but I catch nothing from them. https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/9080-DIY-Breather-Systems-from-AC-Performance. At the time I capped off the CCV but then ditched it.

[Shiner]

I have this for the valve covers but I catch nothing from them. https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/9080-DIY-Breather-Systems-from-AC-Performance. At the time I capped off the CCV but then ditched it.

So you are no longer capping the CCV? When did you not cap it anymore?

[ViperTony]

11 years ago I uncapped it. No real reason other than recommendations that the crankcase likes vacuum.

[Shiner]

11 years ago I uncapped it. No real reason other than recommendations that the crankcase likes vacuum.
Did you see smoke when capped?

[Martyb]

Any concern with having the catch cans venting right next to the intake like that? Not sure if smoke could exit the catch can and be sucked into the intake?? I had my supercharged car catch can close to my hvac, and when I tuned on the ac my car would fill with exhaust stink. Moved the catch can to the passenger side and solved that problem.

[Spitfire481]

Both valve covers to the can, crank case vent to the can. Can vented to atmosphere. Never an issue. Sorry if it’s sideways, kind of a pain from my phone 42005