Updated 2013 Twin Turbo home build

[Andyk753]

So i have been on deployment with the navy for the past year and finally home and ready to start the transformation on the viper. I want every one to know that i am not a shop, just a guy with tools and skills that cant afford one of the great shop builds. This thread is not to take away from any of the shops that do the twin turbo builds, they put out great machines but im not rich so here we are lol. Of course there are better parts here and there that i can get but have settled on doing it the cheapest way and upgrading as i go/need. Motec will be in the future but for now we are going to try HP tuners since im aiming for low boost 4psi and 700 to 800hp. Here is the parts list so far.

Precision PT-6766 CEA Turbos going to go with the v band clamps all around and not ball bearing. $2700

Turbo blankets and hot side wrap $300

Oil Scavenge Pump $100 (not sure if it will be needed do to turbo location, used a universal pump on other turbo builds and lasted years with no fails could go name brand but cost will go up)

Blow off valve two for $200 ( price could go up if you use name brand valves)

Got a universal turbo pipe kit $200 (will have to fab a little and might have to get odd and ends to get it all done, so price will go up a little)

universal 2 in 2 out 2.5 inch inlet/outlet intercooler $260 (could use name brand but price will go up)

Waste Gates $200 ( price could go up if you use name brand valves)

Exhaust pipe/clamps $150 (dont need a whole lot since its a small sec of hot side just req fabbing)

Fuel pump two 450lph Walbro $220, not sure on the hanger yet only one i can find is RSI and they dont have a price.

Not sure on Fuel Injectors yet found Injector Dynamics injectors for $1200 should just need 80lb/hr.

Aeromotive 13109 fuel Regulator $180 (only reason im using this one is because i have it sitting on the shelf from a old race car i had)

Stainless Steel Fuel Line/fittings -6an $300 est (might use the stock lines as return lines and just run one stainless steel line and that would bring the cost down even lower)

HP Tuners MPVI2 Suite $1300

Boost Controller $300

Dyno/tune time $600 (took 3hrs of dyno and tuner time for the gen 3 viper, so going to say its a ruff est)

[Andyk753]

41100

For fuel i went with a Fore innovations 3 pump hanger with 2 450LPh pumps and there FC3 controller. For pumps, hanger, controller, and wire harness it came out to $1068.00 Installed the controller last night and waitting on fuel pressure gauge for full pump and line install. I mounted the controller in the rear right under the Battery cover, going to run the wires under the carpet and i think its the simplest and easy to get to place to install.

[kriskyk]

Nice! How many lbs/min are those turbos spec'd for?

Did you take a look at Both Warners EFRs with integrated BOV?

What's your target PSI?

[Andyk753]

There 67mm Turbos and rated for 900hp each. I wanted to go with Precision because thats what all the kits you can buy come with so no need to go out side of the box along with i have the BOV and waste gates all ready from another turbo build i did. Target PSI is around 4 to 5. If i calculated correctly i should need 4.5 psi to see a little over 700hp. That calculation is just from seeing what other people are making on stock vipers at boost lvls. Might need more or less to make my goal of 700-800hp wont know till we are on the dyno lol

[kriskyk]

4-5 PSI seems doable on the OEM ECM but beyond that it will be be interesting...

Turbos are way oversized for that PSI target, turbo lag will be pretty apparent.

45lb/min twins should get you to about 800hp at the crank at 4.5PSI vs the ~85lb/min turbos you have.

Are you planning to go BIG later on?

[Andyk753]

Yes planning on going motec and 1000+ later not to worried about turbo lag since i do alot of road racing and plan on spending most of my time in the upper rpm range.

[SLP]

What's the plan for turbo manifolds? Cheers and good luck. I'm self installing heads/cam/valvetrain/clutch/trans/custom exhaust right now. If you ever need to talk shop about anything like that feel free to reach out.

[Andyk753]

stock manifolds and hot side fab.

[kriskyk]

Big thumbs up to you for paving the way!!! Will be more than likely doing something similar come next winter project but with smaller turbos & E100 and no intercooler.

[Andyk753]

Thanks paving the way noob style lol

[Whiskey]

Congrats on starting the build. I'll be doing the same but with a Paxton prob next year after I sell of my Gen3 motor, trans, rearend(gen4) and AEM. I'm keeping my AEM W/M, fuel system and Paxton to put on the G5.

[Andyk753]

41154411554115641153 4115241153

[Andyk753]

41157411584115941160

[Andyk753]

Installed the Fore innovations fuel pumps, hanger, 8an lines, and aeromotive fuel pressure reg. Set fuel pressure to 50psi. I recommend the pump and hanger kit i got from Fore Innovations at 1000k its the cheapest and simplest install that i found. The stock fuel level sensor install was simple from the old to the new hanger. I used blue wire taps to tap in to the stock harness for the fuel level gauge and the 12v pump control. Tried to use the simplest and non invasive electrical way. I also tried to keep the stock cover but had to cut it to fit the AN fittings.

[kriskyk]

Can you share the part #s for the pumps, hangar, controller, etc...?

[Andyk753]

67-900 if you go to fore invvotions web site or https://www.foreinnovations.com/Viper_fuel_pump_module_p/67-900.htm or link.

[kriskyk]

Go figure they already have a kit, nice!

[Steve M]

If those are rubber lined stainless braided fuel lines, I'd strongly suggest you ditch them and use PTFE lined stainless hose instead, like this:

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3480

Unfortunately, they use different fittings, so you'd pretty much have to start over, and they ain't cheap.

The only reason I say that is from personal experience...I replumbed one of my previous rides with stainless braided fuel line (rubber lined), and after about a year, the lines started leeching fumes. The ethanol in standard pump gas was enough to start eating at the rubber lining, to the point where it smelled like I had a constant fuel leak (it smelled like I had an open gas can in my garage). I wasn't willing to wait and find out what would have happened if I had let it go any longer. Once I replaced the lines with what I linked above, the problem went away.

[Jack B]

Very nice, one minor suggestion, those parallel wire taps are a common failure point when used in a continuous current carrying application. An alternate approach could be a terminal block or a wye type pin connector rated for at least 1.5X the pump current.

[Steve M]

Very nice, one minor suggestion, those parallel wire taps are a common failure point when used in a continuous current carrying application. An alternate approach could be a terminal block or a wye type pin connector rated for at least 1.5X the pump current.

Agreed...those things need to go.

[ICPREY]

If those are rubber lined stainless braided fuel lines, I'd strongly suggest you ditch them and use PTFE lined stainless hose instead, like this:

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3480

Unfortunately, they use different fittings, so you'd pretty much have to start over, and they ain't cheap.

The only reason I say that is from personal experience...I replumbed one of my previous rides with stainless braided fuel line (rubber lined), and after about a year, the lines started leeching fumes. The ethanol in standard pump gas was enough to start eating at the rubber lining, to the point where it smelled like I had a constant fuel leak (it smelled like I had an open gas can in my garage). I wasn't willing to wait and find out what would have happened if I had let it go any longer. Once I replaced the lines with what I linked above, the problem went away.

I've had the same issue with the stainless/rubber hoses. I'm not a huge fan of the wire taps either. They are easier/faster, but at this point why not just make it a guaranteed solid connection. The cost is minor.

[jasond29]

You can order the OEM connector from Casper electronics, both the male and female ends with pins. I used them when I made my fuel pump hanger.

[ellowviper]

If those are rubber lined stainless braided fuel lines, I'd strongly suggest you ditch them and use PTFE lined stainless hose instead, like this:

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3480

Unfortunately, they use different fittings, so you'd pretty much have to start over, and they ain't cheap.

The only reason I say that is from personal experience...I replumbed one of my previous rides with stainless braided fuel line (rubber lined), and after about a year, the lines started leeching fumes. The ethanol in standard pump gas was enough to start eating at the rubber lining, to the point where it smelled like I had a constant fuel leak (it smelled like I had an open gas can in my garage). I wasn't willing to wait and find out what would have happened if I had let it go any longer. Once I replaced the lines with what I linked above, the problem went away.

THIS!!! Got into a huge argument in the past over this issue. YES they "weep" "leech" or do whatever you want to call it, but the gas fumes come from the SS lines. It was driving me crazy until I replaced them all.

[Jack B]

You can order the OEM connector from Casper electronics, both the male and female ends with pins. I used them when I made my fuel pump hanger.

Mouser is another source, you will also need the correct crimp tool. In addition, verify the the FLA of the new pumps and select the correct wire size, this in turn guides you to the correctly sized connector.

[jasond29]

Jack B, Mouser is the place where I got them, you are correct. You also need to ensure you choose the correct pin size for the gauge wire as well. Makes for a plug in play install. I actually used Racetronix fuel pump hotwire kit and changed the connectors to dodge OEM specific, this gives you 14 gauge wire straight from the alternator for the higher draw amperage of the larger pumps.

[Jack B]

Jack B, Mouser is the place where I got them, you are correct. You also need to ensure you choose the correct pin size for the gauge wire as well. Makes for a plug in play install. I actually used Racetronix fuel pump hotwire kit and changed the connectors to dodge OEM specific, this gives you 14 gauge wire straight from the alternator for the higher draw amperage of the larger pumps.

Another key is the specific crimp tool for the application. With the right tool, the crimp comes out looking like an oem termination.

[Nitrous viper]

Hey not to be a negative Nancy, but I have tripple pump kit from the same company. I noticed you had to cut to clear lines. On mine I did not have to do that however I drilled a hole for the wires.41561 41562

[Andyk753]

Started to install the turbos yesterday, so far no crazy hick ups. Have passengers side hot side done and turbo mounted. Hot side wasnt hard just alot of time and doesnt look the best since i dont have benders and all that stuff lol. I just pie cut the best i could the wrapped it. So far including the fuel pump install have about 20hrs of build time. The next few days will be all the oil stuff along with hooking the turbo discharge to stock pipes. Then we will fire her up to make sure there are no leaks or oil drain issues. Here is part one of the install video.

https://youtu.be/qa80mu1r2eE

[kriskyk]

What's the clamp spec / part # you used for the pipe off the stock header?

[ViperGTS14]

congrats for doing a project like this on your own. Can't speak for everyone but wishing there was a kit one could purchase similar to this for the guys that have the ability to turn a wrench.

[Whiskey]

congrats for doing a project like this on your own. Can't speak for everyone but wishing there was a kit one could purchase similar to this for the guys that have the ability to turn a wrench.

I agree. I'll probably end up going pro charger kit route. It's about $15k. Add upgraded fuel system and a few other odds/ends it will be roughly $20k and it will crack 1000rwhp.

[SLP]

congrats for doing a project like this on your own. Can't speak for everyone but wishing there was a kit one could purchase similar to this for the guys that have the ability to turn a wrench.

RSI sells a twin turbo kit.

[Andyk753]

I dont know the part number for the flange, couldnt find one, if any one knows it that would be great lol. I just cut the one off my old cats and used that lol. Yeah i agree would be great and i would pay the 15k for a kit that i had to install my self. I was thinking of the pro charger kit but think all the kits i seen dont sell the tuning part with the kit. I was going to go with the SCT but after contacting a few people and talking to them they said it was a 50/50 shot that it might go in to limp mode on low boost. If the sct was cheaper like 300 i would have given it a shot but to spend 1200+ on a 50/50 shot. So i did decide to go with motec. Was the hardest buy when it cost twice as much just for the ECU as i spent on all the turbo stuff lol. But i was going to end up going the motec route any ways so with the 50/50 shot on hand it was just smarter to spend the extra money instead of wasting the 1200. Doesnt the RSI kit say its 99k lol

[SLP]

Yeah that's just a place holder number, not the actual cost by any means. The actual price depends on what you want in the kit. I know a couple people who have got their hands of their kits and say it was a good value.

[Andyk753]

Did a little work today got a little bit of the oil system installed. Need tap and an fittings to finish tho witch i will get tomorrow.

[SLP]

Did a little work today got a little bit of the oil system installed. Need tap and an fittings to finish tho witch i will get tomorrow.

Oil for the turbos or block? I hear dailey engineering makes a dry sump system for gen Vs. I believe it's what all the viper shops use if you go that route.

[Andyk753]

For the turbos, i tapped in to the oil pressure sensor and going to use a 3 way block to disperse the oil.

[Whiskey]

RSI sells a twin turbo kit.

RSI....bunch of crooks run the fuck away.

[kriskyk]

I agree. I'll probably end up going pro charger kit route. It's about $15k. Add upgraded fuel system and a few other odds/ends it will be roughly $20k and it will crack 1000rwhp.

Not likely on the OEM ECM

[SLP]

RSI....bunch of crooks run the fuck away.


They sold me parts that no other viper shop was willing to sell me and didn't bill until the parts were shipped. Myself and 2x other people I know of have recently purchased parts from RSI and have had good experiences. They definitely have a bad reputation but are trying to fix it, it seems. But if you want to pay a viper shop $30k, 60k, 90K+ to install their turbo kits, have at it. If you want to save money and turn the wrenches yourself, there are options for that too.

[Whiskey]

They sold me parts that no other viper shop was willing to sell me and didn't bill until the parts were shipped. Myself and 2x other people I know of have recently purchased parts from RSI and have had good experiences. They definitely have a bad reputation but are trying to fix it, it seems. But if you want to pay a viper shop $30k, 60k, 90K+ to install their turbo kits, have at it. If you want to save money and turn the wrenches yourself, there are options for that too.

Will, Paul and I used to be friends until he scammed me. Never got my TT system installed or my money back. I only got a broken car missing big $$$ parts. I wouldn't buy anything from them even if they were the last people on earth working on Vipers.

I don't wish them well.


Now let's keep this thread on topic before I have a meltdown about those assholes.

[Andyk753]

ahhahaah Agree. So i got the scavenge pump installed wired and all hooked up. I Ran my oil feed line using -4an braided hose and got the feed from where the oil pressure sensor plugs in to the block. Used a brass t fitting to reinstall the sensor remotely. I tried to get the turbo drain above the frame rail but could only get parallel with the bottom of it. So i ran the hose just below the frame rail to the scavenge pump. The scavenge pump i used was from boost doctors, i got it a few years ago and used it on my Gen 3 viper and it worked fine. So im going to keep running this one till it breaks lol. I mounted the scavenge pump parallel with the left tire so there is no way to hit it on any thing since it about 1/2 and inch below the frame rail. The scavenge pump discharge is tapped in to the oil fill on the drivers side valve cover, might end up moving it since its really close to where my catch can intake is. I will wait and see how much oil gets caught in the can if its only a little bit i will leave it. I started it and we have no oil leaks or exhaust leaks.

Part 2 of the build is up on you tube. https://youtu.be/BT9Z5ZO7Dhw

[glitchrt10]

Awesome, subscribed for updates, it

[Andyk753]

Hello guys, sorry its been a little while but i got ACL reconstruction surgery and the doctor finally said i can start walking on it. So after 13 days im back working on the viper. I got alot done since the last video and before i got the surgery. I got both sides done and fully completed, all the oil lines both feed and drain done. I am leaking a little bit on both sides oil past the seals. It doesnt smoke on start up or full throttle. I even tried to disconnect the scavenge pump and let it drain right in to a pan from the turbo and we are still getting oil past the seal. Im not using a restrictor at the moment since precision said not to. Ill call them up and ask if it starts to give my problems down the road. Got some of the cold side done in part 3 of the video. If you guys have any questions or would like to see pictures on how something is ran or done i will post it. I know i couldnt find any thing on the plumbing of the Gen5 turbo builds on the internet, or how they even mount them. Thanks for watching here is the video. https://youtu.be/6SEy2816Oo8

[Arizona Vipers]

. https://youtu.be/6SEy2816Oo8

Very cool brother!

[ACR-ISH]

They sold me parts that no other viper shop was willing to sell me and didn't bill until the parts were shipped. Myself and 2x other people I know of have recently purchased parts from RSI and have had good experiences. They definitely have a bad reputation but are trying to fix it, it seems.

At least they're trying to fix their image. Step in the right direction!


But if you want to pay a viper shop $30k, 60k, 90K+ to install their turbo kits, have at it. If you want to save money and turn the wrenches yourself, there are options for that too.

This is just my own personal experience here, for what it's worth. But pricing isn't the ENTIRE story. I've been talking to Calvo about an NA and a turbo build. They start a bit pricey, but there is a reason for it. I recommend calling if you want the full scoop. I'll give a quick example: for a heads and cam packages; $24K. Sounds like a TON of money. BUT... there's a lot involved that isn't listed. First, the header back exhaust system is included. All the way to the tips. Those run $5-7k easily. Then the motor is removed, stripped down, all new bearings, seals and gaskets, they fix the oiling problems with the OEM crank, lighten and balance it. Heads, cam, reassemble and dyno. Average numbers WITH cats are low to mid 700whp INCLUDING a 2 year warranty.

I think it says a lot when a company stands behind their build for 2 years and 20 thousand miles KNOWING we are going to be driving like raped apes.

They also have proprietary tuning. They tune for torque by gear, similar to boost by gear, but in knowing the Viper's torque limited based on wheel, tires and aero (or not) their cars also GET TRACTION. It's not all about making power, it's about making power YOU CAN USE. So yeah... 1000whp with advanced timing and a ton of fuel will make a fast car...

But even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut. Driving a 1000whp car that pulls and hooks up... that's a different story. Calvo knows their shit, builds a damned fast car, and is AWESOME about keeping in touch and answering questions. They are impressive, or have been in my experience. Anyway... I don't mean to highjack the thread and Calvo hasn't received a dime from me, but they have been awesome this far and I appreciate their all their input. They're not about selling you too much HP or not enough. Ask for Andrei if you reach out to them. He's awesome.

That said... I love the budget build and I hope it goes well and you have a bad ass tuner! It's 99% tuning. I could build a turbo kit for my car, too. But I've learned over the years that too many hands in the pot always results in issues, and the finger pointing begins!

My only real input/criticism is just to let people do what they do best. Clearly, you know your stuff... or enough to design and build a kit, and get decent parts. But brother, don't be scared to spend a couple bucks. Also, read and really think about some of the YouTube comments... there are some people who have some good input. Building a $65k turbo kit for $15k is dope... but why not build it for $16k and have it look good (or at least decent), too! Ya know? There's budget and there's just being cheap. It's a Viper man... treat her right!

Best of luck, just watched episode 2 and looking forward to more. This book is ended.

[Andyk753]

Hello guys, getting really close to being done. Will be able to do the bake cooling ducts and install the front bumper fully tomorrow. Still waiting on the ECU and a few couplers i had to order. I want to drive it for a week or two any ways before i install the ECU and injectors. I want to make sure its good to go and see if i can find any kinks before i dyno it. Im really going to try and see if i can brake it lol. Would rather brake or find a really bad problem before i go to the dyno. They should be shipping the ECU on the first he said, so my guess is 3 more weeks till we hit the dyno. Right now as of today i just added up my man hrs and im at 65hrs of build time, not to bad i think lol. Well here is video 4 https://youtu.be/hsjZCy_ZE08

[Arizona Vipers]

Badass dude!!! Awesome job!!! You're a maniac!

[ACR-ISH]

Hello guys, getting really close to being done. Will be able to do the bake cooling ducts and install the front bumper fully tomorrow. Still waiting on the ECU and a few couplers i had to order. I want to drive it for a week or two any ways before i install the ECU and injectors. I want to make sure its good to go and see if i can find any kinks before i dyno it. Im really going to try and see if i can brake it lol. Would rather brake or find a really bad problem before i go to the dyno. They should be shipping the ECU on the first he said, so my guess is 3 more weeks till we hit the dyno. Right now as of today i just added up my man hrs and im at 65hrs of build time, not to bad i think lol. Well here is video 4 https://youtu.be/hsjZCy_ZE08

Bad ass dude. That's not a ton of build time at all, considering you're building it from the ground up.

Don't you feel like without tuning you're going to break it even without a "weak point"? Seems like a bad idea unless you have a base tune. Your car has NO IDEA what you've done to it. I'm sure you've considered this but just in case you haven't...

[ellowviper]

Bad ass dude. That's not a ton of build time at all, considering you're building it from the ground up.

Don't you feel like without tuning you're going to break it even without a "weak point"? Seems like a bad idea unless you have a base tune. Your car has NO IDEA what you've done to it. I'm sure you've considered this but just in case you haven't...
This! Did same thing on New Years Day...ended up breaking it, underhood fire, and stranded on a road waiting for a tow. I knew it was stupid but I did it anyways. Road tuning to the point of breaking is stupid.

[Jack B]

This! Did same thing on New Years Day...ended up breaking it, underhood fire, and stranded on a road waiting for a tow. I knew it was stupid but I did it anyways. Road tuning to the point of breaking is stupid.

To be safe you have to start out super rich, however, because hp is unknown, plus, injectors and fuel delivery is new, this creates a lot of questions. In addition, the G5 version of HPT does have some limitations.

The salvation could be a load type dyno along with the ability to record KR.

[Andyk753]

O No guys the cold side isnt hooked up yet the pipes are under the intake box right now. Ive driven it a few times now and no problems what so ever. No banging or hitting of the turbos. I did catch a burning oil smell once while stopped at a light., but it might have been the way the car was angled not sure. Im going to drive it today and check to see if im still getting oil past the seals, like I was when it was on jacks. Along with do an inspection just to see if any thing is rubbing or any thing.

[Andyk753]

So i drove it a few days in a row and really happy with the build so far. The Motec should be here tomorrow so going to get it ready for that install. Here is part 5 of the build and how it looks so far. https://youtu.be/hGYmilgNbhA

[Andyk753]

Installed new injectors. Installed the motec and was super simple all plug and play. Also gapped the plugs to .03 here is the video of part 6 https://youtu.be/LMH2JYCZk4o next is the tune and dyno time boys.

[ACR2NVY]

Installed new injectors. Installed the motec and was super simple all plug and play. Also gapped the plugs to .03 here is the video of part 6 https://youtu.be/LMH2JYCZk4o next is the tune and dyno time boys.

Exciting to see the development here!

[ACR-ISH]

Looking forward to seeing some dyno pulls!

[Andyk753]

Been a while since i posted guys. I have a few updates, still waitting on a tune lol. Cody phillips did do a start and drive tune, she is running super rich tho so im not driving it. Things i did have to do to get to this point was get a after market maf sensor. I had a gm 3 bar laying on the parts shelf so that is what i used. I also installed boost control solenoids to control the boost over the 5 psi waste gate springs. Both of those a just simply wired in to the spare plugs. I have for the past few weeks betting trying to get a hold on burning oil since the turbos hang so low. I have never seen a picture of how the big name vipers mount there turbos. The only thing i can thing after battling the burning smoke is that they might cut some of the support and mount the turbos higher. My turbos are dam there touching the top of that cavity and cant be placed any higher unless i cut it up there. With that being said i have tried -10an line and used 2 pumps one for each turbo and that worked with warm oil but would smoke out the passengers side while warming up. I since went back to one pump along with longer lines and drooped the passengers side a little. This works on lvl ground hot and cold but have yet to test it sitting on a up and down hill. If this doesnt work i will have to use restrictors. Here is video 7 enjoy guys. https://youtu.be/DOls7I5Sxns

[aviorperformance]

If only you were local I would have helped you with the fabrication side of things.