MCS or Tractive coilovers

[Special Ed]

I'm considering upgrading the shocks on my TA2. I use the car 50/50 track and street. I only want to do it once with the best possible results. Which MCS is best for our cars. ? 2 way or 3 way. Is there is noticable difference between the two. Is the cost difference justifiable. What is the comparision to the DCS system.

[Steve M]

I have the MCS setup (2 way with remote reservoirs) on my Gen 4, which is nearly 100% street duty. Tractive wasn't available when I did this many years ago. I've been happy with my purchase, but it is extremely subjective. There's more adjustability than I know what to do with, but that's simply a function of my lack of talent as a driver. I'm sure there are others out there that could give you a much better run down.

About the only advice I would give is try before you buy. See if you can find local cars that have each, and see if you can go for a ride. This is one of those mods that's buy once, cry once.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if anyone is considering an MCS setup in my neck of the woods and wants to come check one out before committing, I'm always happy to take a fellow Viper owner for a ride.

[Jack B]

On the street I set the MCS at 3 all the way around and the ride is smoother than the oem shocks. For autox 6- 8. The dragstrip is based on the traction

[Special Ed]

On the street I set the MCS at 3 all the way around and the ride is smoother than the oem shocks. For autox 6- 8. The dragstrip is based on the traction

Jack I appreciate your input. You misunderstood my question. Do I but the $3k MCS 2way adjustable, the $7k MCS 3way adjustable or the $8k DCS tractive dampers.

[Larryskillzs]

Did you look into the Penske 8100’s as another option?

Performance shock recommended those to me for a 50/50 street and track option. They run around 3000 bucks with a custom valve done by them.

MCS is a great option as well and 2 way should be plenty for what you are looking to do. 3 way gets to be a little bit complicated.

I’m not sure if tractive would be the best to fine tune on track. It’s a great option but for me personally MCS or the Penske’s suit me better since I like adjusting all of my suspensions myself.

[Jack B]

Jack I appreciate your input. You misunderstood my question. Do I but the $3k MCS 2way adjustable, the $7k MCS 3way adjustable or the $8k DCS tractive dampers.

FYI, mine are the 3 way, they have been excellent.

[ViperGeorge]

What about the TKO height adjustable shocks? I believe they allow you to adjust ride height from your phone and were race tested. I've had the MCS setup on my 15 TA 2 and they were great but if I were doing it now I would probably go with the TKO setup. I love the idea of remote height adjustment to avoid those driveway and speedbump scrapes.

https://tkomotorsports.com/product/5th-gen-viper-4-wheel-active-ride-height-control-system-a-r-h-c/

[Darius]

Pretty cool!

[Arizona Vipers]

I'd keep it simple and go with MCS 2 way. That's what I run on my track car, I've done well with them. I did blow up a front tube which the replaced. They are very responsive to emails and extremely helpful.

[J TNT]

I'd keep it simple and go with MCS 2 way. That's what I run on my track car, I've done well with them. I did blow up a front tube which the replaced. They are very responsive to emails and extremely helpful.

Also went with MCS 2 for Street and Track use , great value and would do it again .

[sharmut]

Ed,

From a track perspective, I can't imagine you will much faster with the DSC vs a Viper matched MCS system. Is the convenience of being able to flip between modes when you're on the street and download different mappings specific to a track worth the 3x cost difference to you.

After using the ACR-E factory system for over a year, I have to agree with Arizona on this one. I find access to the manual adjusters easy enough to change to accommodate different tracks and street. Less varialbles involved in the logistics of downloading mappings via a laptop to some EEPROM.

[Steve M]

Jack I appreciate your input. You misunderstood my question. Do I but the $3k MCS 2way adjustable, the $7k MCS 3way adjustable or the $8k DCS tractive dampers.

MCS offers the following options for the Viper:

Single Adjustable (1-way), no remote canisters - list price: $2,750. Shock adjustment is rebound only.
Double Adjustable (2-way) with remote canisters - list price: $4,600. Rebound adjustment is on the shock, high speed compression adjustment is on the remote canister.
Triple Adjustable (3-way) with remote canisters - list price: $6,100. Same adjustments as the 2-way above, with the added ability to adjust low speed compression and high speed compression independently.

All offer ride-height adjustment, but that is not considered one of the adjustment "ways" (e.g. the 2-way adjustable shocks can alter the rebound, compression, and ride height). You can also adjust the nitrogen pressure in the remote canisters for those that have them, so that is even more adjustability if you need it, but does require some special equipment (like a Power Tank setup).

If you go with the 2 or 3-way shocks, you have to come up with a way to mount the canisters. Not a huge deal, but something that will complicate the install. MCS does not offer their 2-way non-remote shocks for the Viper.

Bottom line: $3k will only get you the 1-way adjustable MCS shocks without remote canisters.

[dewilmoth]

Man, the TKO stuff is definitely car porn.

[dewilmoth]

If anyone would like some more info on shocks in general; the good the bad and the ugly I would be glad to help. We design, engineer and mfg all our own shocks and suspension systems. Non bias opinion , best bang for your buck for your application.

I will likely buy your shock system if my ACR sticks around due to my driveway slope, but I am not ready yet. Hoping in the meantime to see some reviews from others. Good luck, you guys make some gorgeous stuff.

[Topplayer]

TKO or Tractive gets my vote.

I love the adaptability of the DSC,having track, street, auto x, and drag presets sounds cool to me.

[dirtyboot]

OP - considering you have them - I'd go with a system that makes use of the bi-mode suspension buttons if you want convenience as a factor of that performance - It's my understanding the Tractive can hold two different mappings for swapping with the buttons, so as far as being intuitive and operator friendly - that may be the best bang, though more buck[everyone wants and is willing to pay for convenience these days, be it grocery delivery or massaging car seats]. That covers you with an 'active' suspension that can be preloaded with two map tables for whatever parameter style you want to default to. If you don't think you'll ever have a lazy moment and say to yourself "ehh, it's fine I'll readjust it later" after having set it for a track weekend or other event, then go ahead and save some money with the manual systems. If you have that personality where you'll put it off, or are not the type to pre-flight checks of your car prior to every outing - you may wind up hating the manual systems because you forget to reset them for a casual street cruise from that track weekend last month where you decided you were too wiped to adjust them back afterwards.


What about the TKO height adjustable shocks? I believe they allow you to adjust ride height from your phone and were race tested. I've had the MCS setup on my 15 TA 2 and they were great but if I were doing it now I would probably go with the TKO setup. I love the idea of remote height adjustment to avoid those driveway and speedbump scrapes.

TKO - Does your system have a way to integrate with the bi-mode suspension buttons? IE - could it be made to operate the track/street height settings instead of doing so through your phone's bluetooth? Personally my phone's in my pocket when I'm in the viper - and fishing into a pocket in those seats is about as complex and efficient as you make climbing in/out of the footwell sound for the adjustable throttle response install.

[kriskyk]

The tractive suspension system is much more sophisticated than the stock bi mode system offered. It's not just to two different static tables it is actually adaptive and has intelligence

[kriskyk]

Yea no debate on that, I ended up with a set of MCS doubles...I was responding to the poster above you but you beat me to it...cheers!

[dewilmoth]

MCS doubles are a good choice Kriskyk. Simplicity equals more track time and consistency.

I need to modify my statement " we never use bluetooth/ phone apps" We have had requests from our customers they want a phone app controlled option for our ARHC system, so we are developing that option.

What switch does the ARHC system use to raise and lower the car? I am not a big fan of aftermarket switches, so was hoping it would use an existing switch inside the car. My thought was the rear defroster switch since I will never use it.

[Topplayer]

What switch does the ARHC system use to raise and lower the car? I am not a big fan of aftermarket switches, so was hoping it would use an existing switch inside the car. My thought was the rear defroster switch since I will never use it.

or the bimode suspension since you are removing it anyway

[dewilmoth]

or the bimode suspension since you are removing it anyway

I have an ACR.

[ViperGeorge]

On the viper we use rolling code remote .. with key fob to control the ARHC system. We also offer hard wire systems to control.

What is the gas (?) cylinder that shows in one of the pictures of the shock system for? Where does it mount? Website also says they are double adjustable, rebound? compression? Do they adjust from the fob or are they controlled in some other way?

[ViperGeorge]

I have a 2017 ACR-E. When you "The reservoir mounts in the same place as the Viper ACR vipers." What do you mean? Is there one for each shock? I don't have a tank that looks like that anywhere that I know of. Where exactly does it mount?

[Scot@Prefix]

Yes its definitely sophisticated and a step forward Kirskyk but unfortunately it doesn"t work very well in the real world. Settling particles, short life of fluid and inconsistent viscosity due to temperature changes and electro magnetic variances all cause problems in the performance of these shocks.

The DSC are not actually magnaride using magnetic fluid.
The use regular fluid with an adjustable servo valve that can be adjusted from open to close and stop anywhere in between.

[dewilmoth]

I have a 2017 ACR-E. When you "The reservoir mounts in the same place as the Viper ACR vipers." What do you mean? Is there one for each shock? I don't have a tank that looks like that anywhere that I know of. Where exactly does it mount?

I think you are asking about the fire bottle shown in the picture of the viper trunk? That photo is just showing where they mounted the ARHC lifting pump/controller, and is unrelated to the fire bottle next to it. TKO is referring to the individual shock reservoirs that are similar to the stock ACR shock reservoirs mounted inside the wheel well.

[ViperGeorge]

I think you are asking about the fire bottle shown in the picture of the viper trunk? That photo is just showing where they mounted the ARHC lifting pump/controller, and is unrelated to the fire bottle next to it. TKO is referring to the individual shock reservoirs that are similar to the stock ACR shock reservoirs mounted inside the wheel well.

Yes, once I magnified the picture I could see it was a fire bottle. I think they should post a picture without that tank. Most ACR owners don't have a fire system and unless you blow up the picture you can't tell what it is.

[TheWessss]

I put a 2 way pair of MCS in my G3 4 years ago, car was tracked heavily back in those days. Never had a problem, very forgiving or stiff as a board your choice with I think up to 17 "clicks" if I remember correctly. Anyway, recently I decided to have them looked at and I wanted to raise the car up to a more comfortable height. So much adjustment in that btw from the floor to 4X4, also your choice. There was not even so much as a leak, I was fully expecting at least a rebuild, car has over 40k miles on those shocks!!! I opted to stay away from the remote reservoirs, for amateurs like us barely putting in a full 30 minute session, that reservoir is only there to hold more oil for those shocks when they heat up under endurance type applications. Yeah the canisters look cool, but they end up being in the way if you have other tasks on the car to do like change a serp belt or pulley. My .02 cents. Sounds like all these are top of the shelf brand shocks, good luck with the purchase.

[kriskyk]

I put a 2 way pair of MCS in my G3 4 years ago, car was tracked heavily back in those days. Never had a problem, very forgiving or stiff as a board your choice with I think up to 17 "clicks" if I remember correctly. Anyway, recently I decided to have them looked at and I wanted to raise the car up to a more comfortable height. So much adjustment in that btw from the floor to 4X4, also your choice. There was not even so much as a leak, I was fully expecting at least a rebuild, car has over 40k miles on those shocks!!! I opted to stay away from the remote reservoirs, for amateurs like us barely putting in a full 30 minute session, that reservoir is only there to hold more oil for those shocks when they heat up under endurance type applications. Yeah the canisters look cool, but they end up being in the way if you have other tasks on the car to do like change a serp belt or pulley. My .02 cents. Sounds like all these are top of the shelf brand shocks, good luck with the purchase.

Canisters also enable you to adjust spring rates by -50lbs by varying the charge which can be beneficial..

[cashcorn]

After all the reviews I've seen. The DSC shocks are pretty amazing and there is no comparison. Designed by a porsche engineer..

[ViperGeorge]

I think after I get through some medical treatments this Fall I will buy the TKO setup. Love the idea of being able to easily change the ride height and I love that they are race tested.

[dirtyboot]

1. ... If you want press buttons and like high tech stuff there is nothing wrong with a magneride style shock. If you want true reliable and consistent performance you use conventional style dampeners.

2. We dont use bluetooth if we dont have to. All our parts are built for performance, simplicity and endurance. Bluetooth signals can be interrupted or interfered with so we never use bluetooth on critical systems that can be adjusted on the fly; Like our Max throttle or our ARHC system. Last thing you need to be doing at a buck 60 on road america straight is screwing with your phone app.

Agreed on both points - was enquiring if you could set it up so that the bimode suspension buttons operated the ride height adjustment as Topplayer mentioned.


The tractive suspension system is much more sophisticated than the stock bi mode system offered. It's not just to two different static tables it is actually adaptive and has intelligence

Yeah that's why I said it was an active, with the convenience of hot-swapping 2 baseline configs for it to adapt off of; instead of having to uplink a computer to it and load new mappings for every change.

Sorry for my delayed response guys.

[darbgnik]

Hello Dirtyboot. I will try and answer your questions without getting into some long haired engineering boring answer.

1. We dont use magnetorheological fluid shocks. Some people call it Magneride. Basically a shock that is filled with an iron infused shock oil that its viscosity is controlled by a magnetic field. This type of shock does not work well if any type of performance application. The big reason is they are so inconsistent and in motor sports consistency is a big part of the game. If you want press buttons and like high tech stuff there is nothing wrong with a magneride style shock. If you want true reliable and consistent performance you use conventional style dampeners.

2. We dont use bluetooth if we dont have to. All our parts are built for performance, simplicity and endurance. Bluetooth signals can be interrupted or interfered with so we never use bluetooth on critical systems that can be adjusted on the fly; Like our Max throttle or our ARHC system. Last thing you need to be doing at a buck 60 on road america straight is screwing with your phone app.
Not to get into the debate too much, but the DSC Tractive suspension uses a DDA valve, not magnetorheological fluid, a la GM vehicles:

DDA Valve
The heart of the Tractive DDA product line, the DDA valve is the fastest, most stable bi-directional internal damping valve in the world. The DDA valve can respond to commands from the DSC Sport controller in only six milliseconds, or up to 60 times in the blink of an eye! (comparable valve designs respond in 80-100 milliseconds). Unlike other electronic solenoid valves, the DDA valve can also respond to mid-stroke commands, allowing for even more instantaneous damping performance. By utilizing a traditional shim stack arrangement in their electronic solenoid valve design, Tractive is able to repeatedly and consistently produce the “ideal” damping curve for a variety of applications.

From my personal experience, being able to swap settings from track to street, for the long highway slog after tracking all day, at the touch of a button is a nice bonus.

[Bruce H.]

Yes the DDA ( aka: solenoid valve) been around for many years in the gimmic and do hickey shock manufacture world in one form or another. Changing dampening characteristics 60 times second with an electronic solenoid valve is not the way to get consistency and true performance out of any shock. If you like cool buttons to push and the illusion that you have increased the performance of your viper by pressing a button then yes electronic controlled shocks work great and worth every penny. Old motor-sports saying " so trick..... it doesn't work"

You were running down DSC when you didn't have a clue what damper they were using, and now over their use of a DDA...you really are all about consistency! But it's painfully obvious that you don't have first hand knowledge or experience with the DSC/Tractive system, or their implementation of the DDA valve with their software. Many here do.

The "cool buttons to push" actually serve a useful purpose in changing both the stock and DSC/Tractive damper's impact on performance very noticeably. No illusion. For some that's a real benefit.

[ayousef]

Thanks for your comments Bruce H. Your correct I have no hand on experience with DSC or their DDA valve system. 35 years in professional motor-sports designing, engineering, and building shocks along with countless other systems. All of us in the performance shock industry have seen GIMMICS like DSC and the "DDA valve" come and go half a dozen times and Im sure we will see a half dozen more. If you like gimmics, high tech and pushing buttons there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Many people out there are more interested in legit race proven and best bang for your buck shock and suspension performance improvements for their viper. GIMMICS and BUTTONS are not the answer when it comes to shocks and suspension.

I have tested the DSCsport and Tractive dampers first hand on an ACR and I can tell you they are a downgrade from the stock Bilsteins. If you want a comfortable pogo stick ride with the ACR's stiff springs then its good, but it was very inconsistent, the canned tune on the DSCsport box was garbage, support was mediocre, the controller crashed at least 25 times, and when that happens the dampers default into FULL stiff mode, imagine that happening on a race track. Also, only rebound is adjustable via the DDA valve. If you want you can also upgrade to the Tractives that have external adjusters for low-speed and high speed compression INCLUDING the internal rebound-only DDA valve which becomes a tuning nightmare. The valving was also completely off and there was nothing I could do about it aside from revalving them which I dont have the skills to do nor the shock dyno to do.

I havent tested them on a TA however, perhaps the dampers are valved to work on the softer springs that are found on a TA.

I have purchased quite a list of parts from TKO and their work is OCD level of perfection, and their customer service is the best ive experienced so far in more than 15 years, that alone would make me want to buy more parts from them.

Final verdict would be, get a 2-way MCS or TKO damper.

[Bruce H.]

I havent tested them on a TA however, perhaps the dampers are valved to work on the softer springs that are found on a TA.



Glad to hear you found a good solution. Service and long-term support really is everything, particularly on systems requiring adjustment to be optimized, and likelihood of needing on-going service or parts replacement.

The Tractive system seems to be really intended to improve the performance of softer spring applications like on the TA where it does make a noticeable improvement on track.