Gen V Self Install Heads Cam Valvetrain Transmission Clutch

[SLP]

Background:
I have always dreamed about owning a high performance car and when I was finally able to, I made the decision that I wanted to own a performance car that I could work on with my dad. I only get to work on my car sporadically due to work travel so there will not be consistent updates.

Table of Contents:
Removing Heads (Page 1)
Removing Camshaft (Page 2, 3)
Installing Camshaft/Valvetrain (Page 3)
Installing Heads (Page 3)
Custom Exhaust (Page 3)
Installing Pilot Bearing(Page 4)
Installing Nth Moto Carbon Triple Disc Clutch (Page 4)
Installing Built Transmission (Page 4)
Tuning (Page 4,5)
Front Crank Seal Removal/Install (Page 6)

Part 1:
Experience so far: This is the easiest car that I have ever worked on. Everything is accessible, is organized in a logical manner, and is robust. Getting to the heads was fairly straight forward. I only had to reference the shop manual a few times. It looks like my car was running rich from stock (21K miles). The only mods prior to cylinder head disassembly were Belanger headers.

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[99RT10]

Well done sir.

[z20ateU]

Where'd you get an aftermarket cam from?

[Arizona Vipers]

Awesome dude! Are you installing new ported heads etc? Whose?

[SLP]

Awesome dude! Are you installing new ported heads etc? Whose?

Ported heads with enlarged valves and better springs/retainers, lifters, and push rods. I'm debating between roller rocker arms or leaving the stock ones. All the viper shops seem to leave stock rocker arms in their heads/cam packages.

[Gen5snake]

Who makes rockers for these? Jesel or TD? I would go aftermarket if you can get Jesel or TD's. I thought that I remember reading about the factory rockers coming apart spreading needle bearings throughout the engine.

[J TNT]

Who makes rockers for these? Jesel or TD? I would go aftermarket if you can get Jesel or TD's. I thought that I remember reading about the factory rockers coming apart spreading needle bearings throughout the engine.

Some use the factory rockers , remove the needle bearings and have a bushing installed . Seems to be a solid fix .

[SLP]

Some use the factory rockers , remove the needle bearings and have a bushing installed . Seems to be a solid fix .

Yeah I think calvo does that. I assume a lot of companies can/do make rockers for these cars. The heads likely need to be machined to accept them though. The rocker arm seats have a concave curve from factory as seen in picture #5 which may or may not be compatible with other rockers.

[Gen5snake]

Some use the factory rockers , remove the needle bearings and have a bushing installed . Seems to be a solid fix .

I have a set of Isky Red Zone EZ-Roll solid lifters in one of my setups and the solid bushing is a solid fix. Good to know they can do this on the factory rockers.



Yeah I think calvo does that. I assume a lot of companies can/do make rockers for these cars. The heads likely need to be machined to accept them though. The rocker arm seats have a concave curve from factory as seen in picture #5 which may or may not be compatible with other rockers.

I saw that Jesel makes them for a Gen 4. Don't know if any machining has to be done, but good to know they can install solid bushings in the factory rollers...This way you can maintain proper valve-train geometry. Who did or is going to do the port/valve work? Thanks for posting this...great thread!

I see the oil stocked up, extra SRT hood and miscellaneous long block in corner of your garage. Perfect! We're all alike..

[SLP]

I ended up reaching out to Jesel and yes, they make roller rockers for gen v ($2100). Rocker seats on the heads do need to be machined in a certain way.

Here's another option:
40113

[Murpowa]

Nice! Good luck with the build

[Fulltilt]

Where did you get the SRT hood? Good luck with your build.

[SLP]

Where did you get the SRT hood? Good luck with your build.


I bought it used (cracked in two locations) on ebay. I will be cutting louvers into it and will pay an aeronautical composites company to fix the small cracks sometime in the spring or summer. I like to stockpile rare and discounted car parts. It sure is an expensive habit though.

[ACR-ISH]

I bought it used (cracked in two locations) on ebay. I will be cutting louvers into it and will pay an aeronautical composites company to fix the small cracks sometime in the spring or summer. I like to stockpile rare and discounted car parts. It sure is an expensive habit though.

Very cool! Are you cutting the louvers yourself? If so, there are carbon fiber repair kits. You may be able to repair the carbon yourself. Just a thought, save some $$$.

[ACR-ISH]

I ended up reaching out to Jesel and yes, they make roller rockers for gen v ($2100). Rocker seats on the heads do need to be machined in a certain way.

Here's another option:
40113

That's an extremely affordable option! They come with C-Clips so I assume they can be installed without being pressed-in?

[Gen5snake]

SLP - To lift or not to lift? I've read that it was "quicker" to remove the engine from the car to do the heads/cam. What are your thoughts now that you're doing the job with the engine in car?

[SLP]

SLP - To lift or not to lift? I've read that it was "quicker" to remove the engine from the car to do the heads/cam. What are your thoughts now that you're doing the job with the engine in car?

I had a 36 hour window to pull the heads off before I had to leave for my next work contract so I decided to not spend time clearing out more garage space and setting up my cherry picker/engine stand. So far it hasn't been an issue because the engine bay has a ton of room, especially in the front. If it is an issue down the road, I can still pull it out. The trans, engine, heads etc are all so easily accessible. The headers are probably the "hardest" component to get to.

[Gen5snake]

I had a 36 hour window to pull the heads off before I had to leave for my next work contract so I decided to not spend time clearing out more garage space and setting up my cherry picker/engine stand. So far it hasn't been an issue because the engine bay has a ton of room, especially in the front. If it is an issue down the road, I can still pull it out. The trans, engine, heads etc are all so easily accessible. The headers are probably the "hardest" component to get to.

I would have taken your route, keeping it it. If I had unlimited space and a nice lift, maybe I would have pulled the engine. I wonder how easy it will be to remove/install the cam. Seems like we have plenty of room.

[SLP]

I would have taken your route, keeping it it. If I had unlimited space and a nice lift, maybe I would have pulled the engine. I wonder how easy it will be to remove/install the cam. Seems like we have plenty of room.

The shop manual recommends just tilting the engine but it really doesn't seem like a big deal to unbolt trans/pull the engine. Either way probably works just fine.

[ViperPete]

I have also experienced the Viper to be very very easy to work on. Probably the easiest vehicle i've ever worked on.

Nice work!

[Voice of Reason]

Stop talking about how easy it is, all these shops are going to start feeling guilty for their Viper tax! Lol

[ViperPete]

Stop talking about how easy it is, all these shops are going to start feeling guilty for their Viper tax! Lol

It IS easy! Most probably don't have the confidence.

[ViperGTS14]

Love this thread, congrats again OP. So is there a complete heads/cam package setup other there us DIY'ers can pruchase. Personally, I think its crazy to spend 20k for an extra 100 rwhp, yes Viper tax is strong lately.

[kriskyk]

Not sure where you're getting your numbers but heads and cam installed can be found for a much more reasonable prices by a number of the top shops

[ViperGTS14]

Not sure where you're getting your numbers but heads and cam installed can be found for a much more reasonable prices by a number of the top shops

That's what I thought, was told by someone whom just got a Gen 5 that is looking to do heads and cam after getting a quote from one of the top name viper builders in TX that its 20k+ for 700+ rwhp on 93 with a 2 year warranty or 24k miles. He stated that they pull out the stock bearings as well since they are known to go. Regardless of this calm I personally am looking for someone in FL that has done Viper builds under their belt and has a strong reptuation to do a heads and cam package alone with tuning and possibly build a 9.0l. Would like to see 700+ on 93 pump gas if that is possible. If I can't find anyone state side, I'd like to do similarly as the OP since I've turned many wreches over the last 25 years of car building.

[SLP]

If I recall correctly, I called ~five viper shops and the quoted prices for installed heads/cam/valvetrain (no exhaust) ranged from $17-27K. Two of the five shops I called were willing to sell me a parts kit and remote tune. I will divulge who that is when I finish the install and I can accurately state my experience with the shop I chose.

Of course there are benefits to going with a shop, certain ones machine the block, check tolerances, provide a warranty, etc. I chose to go the route I did because of 1) the experience and 2) price.

[ViperGTS14]

If I recall correctly, I called ~five viper shops and the quoted prices for installed heads/cam/valvetrain (no exhaust) ranged from $17-27K. Two of the five shops I called were willing to sell me a parts kit and remote tune. I will divulge who that is when I finish the install and I can accurately state my experience with the shop I chose.

Of course there are benefits to going with a shop, certain ones machine the block, check tolerances, provide a warranty, etc. I chose to go the route I did because of 1) the experience and 2) price.

Don't blame you, have a feeling its less than half the cost doing it yourself. Not saying I or others need to save ever penny, just saying its beyond cool to do it yourself when your skilled enjoy to do it. Keep up the great work.

[kriskyk]

Did you talk to Paul at A&C Performance? He had really reasonable prices lasted I checked however he is in Southern California....

[Jack B]

If I recall correctly, I called ~five viper shops and the quoted prices for installed heads/cam/valvetrain (no exhaust) ranged from $17-27K. Two of the five shops I called were willing to sell me a parts kit and remote tune. I will divulge who that is when I finish the install and I can accurately state my experience with the shop I chose.

Of course there are benefits to going with a shop, certain ones machine the block, check tolerances, provide a warranty, etc. I chose to go the route I did because of 1) the experience and 2) price.\

The prices were pretty much set by Prefix due to the number of HC conversions they did. Your numbers are high for the base HC cars done by prefix. I am not sure of the number done by Prefix or with Prefix parts, but, VE claimed they did over 90 cars. My car was the second Prefix HC car done by Woodhouse. I am guessing, but, Woodhouse had to do at least 30 cars. Maybe Bill or Mark will clarify the number.

[Jack B]

That's what I thought, was told by someone whom just got a Gen 5 that is looking to do heads and cam after getting a quote from one of the top name viper builders in TX that its 20k+ for 700+ rwhp on 93 with a 2 year warranty or 24k miles. He stated that they pull out the stock bearings as well since they are known to go. Regardless of this calm I personally am looking for someone in FL that has done Viper builds under their belt and has a strong reptuation to do a heads and cam package alone with tuning and possibly build a 9.0l. Would like to see 700+ on 93 pump gas if that is possible. If I can't find anyone state side, I'd like to do similarly as the OP since I've turned many wreches over the last 25 years of car building.

It is fairly easy to send your car to Prefix and have them do the HC + 9L, you will have a proven package that is close to 700 rwhp. There is another option, Prefix has an engine shipping crate, you pull the engine and send it to them, that is how I did my 9L.

[SLP]

\
... Your numbers are high for the base HC cars done by prefix....

I disagree. I reached out to Mark last year to get a quote and I was given a price within the range that I stated earlier. I don't think I've ever seen a shop post their prices for H/C kits online so I will respect that.


Don't blame you, have a feeling its less than half the cost doing it yourself. Not saying I or others need to save ever penny, just saying its beyond cool to do it yourself when your skilled enjoy to do it. Keep up the great work.

Thanks man, I appreciate it!

[outnumbered]

For reference:

https://calvo-motorsports.com/cm-head-cam-package/

[ViperGTS14]

For reference:

https://calvo-motorsports.com/cm-head-cam-package/

It seems like a lot of coin for an extra 100 rwhp pasted having headers and a tune.

[ViperGTS14]

Did you talk to Paul at A&C Performance? He had really reasonable prices lasted I checked however he is in Southern California....

Thought they were in CA? https://acperformance.net/pages/contact-us

[kriskyk]

Thought they were in CA? https://acperformance.net/pages/contact-us

Yes he's in California as I wrote?

[kriskyk]

It seems like a lot of coin for an extra 100 rwhp pasted having headers and a tune.

That package has much more being done... new headers, new lifters, pulling the crankshaft and modifying the oil ports, new main bearings etc...

[ViperGTS14]

Yes he's in California as I wrote?

My apologies I read that a little to quick was excited to believe they were south Carolina (east coast) lol.


That package has much more being done... new headers, new lifters, pulling the crankshaft and modifying the oil ports, new main bearings etc...

Just stated the end result with power delivery per cost, your correct I'm not mentioning the added cost that goes into creating better longevity which I get. After watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_67YZLZv7Zw&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1n2Br1wnqqE1UVslKKxmDK3XhDwLlaclIJenAmo LIcAqpqZAAKQGOmDng , I impressed with what a stock blocks can do even though there are many cases of failures with bearings. Seems that motor went through a hell of a lot of abuse and held up extremely well for that amout of power.

[Jack B]

I will say it again, you are high for a Prefix base (not extreme) HC set up, I know what I paid, as well as what others paid. However, time is the variable, that may affect what the current cost is.

Have you called Prefix directly, calling a third party may not be the best approach at this time



I disagree. I reached out to Mark last year to get a quote and I was given a price within the range that I stated earlier. I don't think I've ever seen a shop post their prices for H/C kits online so I will respect that.



Thanks man, I appreciate it!

[Scot@Prefix]

Since we are not a sponsor to the site, I would rather not post too much about what we sell.
We do have a website with some good information in regards to the topic in discussion.
Thanks

[camarochevy1970]

any updates on this?

[SLP]

any updates on this?

It will probably be two or three weeks until I can work on my car again. I travel 180 days per year for work and right now is peak season unfortunately. As soon as I get the time, I will pull the cam, inspecting bearing shells, install/degree the new cam and pull the transmission.

Speaking of, I'm trying to decide between sending out my transmission to calvo, RPM, or another transmission shop. Does anyone have experience with RPM or another transmission rebuilding shop for our TR6060's? I'm looking to get it rebuilt (bronze forks, micropolished, carbon blocker rings, cryogenic tempering etc).

[Mamba003]

Dan from Viper Specialty for sure....

www.viperspecialtyperformance.com



That's what I thought, was told by someone whom just got a Gen 5 that is looking to do heads and cam after getting a quote from one of the top name viper builders in TX that its 20k+ for 700+ rwhp on 93 with a 2 year warranty or 24k miles. He stated that they pull out the stock bearings as well since they are known to go. Regardless of this calm I personally am looking for someone in FL that has done Viper builds under their belt and has a strong reptuation to do a heads and cam package alone with tuning and possibly build a 9.0l. Would like to see 700+ on 93 pump gas if that is possible. If I can't find anyone state side, I'd like to do similarly as the OP since I've turned many wreches over the last 25 years of car building.

[SLP]

I had a day to work on the car so here's a quick update:

Oil Pan:
I removed oil pan and pickup tube. This was fairly straight forward. One thing to note was that after removing the oil pan bolts and making sure the pickup tube was aligned, I had to tap on the pan to break it loose. It did not want to budge on its own. I used a long wooden dowel rod and found that the best location to tap from was from the passenger topside near the front 1/3 of the oil pan. I was able to get a good angle with the dowel to apply downward force to a reinforced area on the pan and broke it loose easily once I found the right spot to tap from.

Dampener:
31mm and a long cheater bar was used to loosen the harmonic dampener bolt (250ft/lbs!). I had a 31mm deep dish but it did not fit in between the dampener bolt and the steering rack. I bought the cheapest/shortest 31mm on amazon (OEMTOOLS 22411). If I did this again, I would have tried to find a hardened/impact rated socket but surprisingly, this one held up to the task.

Front timing cover
Lots of bolts here. Remove and number them as they are not all the same. I did not have time to remove this but have all the bolts out. It's held in further by two metal dowels in the side walls of the timing cover. It will need to be tapped loose from the sides where the dowels are located. Tapping from a higher position did nothing for me. I'll get to this next time.

Drive Shaft
Very straight forward. Remove like any other drive shaft (mark and remove), just really short.

Transmission/clutch decision
I ended up purchasing a lightly used built TR6060 & carbon triple disk clutch from Nth moto. Parts were shipped quickly and reached me within the same week. I had a really good purchasing experience with Nth moto.
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[Scott_in_fl]

Awesome! Keep up the good work.

[bullitt2735]

god hurry up and finish already!! just kidding, we'll have to get the oregon crew together for a cruise when it's all done...loving the progress updates

[Jack B]

Maybe I missed it, but, how are you going to tune the build?

[SLP]

Awesome! Keep up the good work.
Thank you!


god hurry up and finish already!! just kidding, we'll have to get the oregon crew together for a cruise when it's all done...loving the progress updates
I'm absolutely up for that, there's a handful of us around.


Maybe I missed it, but, how are you going to tune the build?
HPTuners

[z20ateU]

Where'd you get an aftermarket cam from?

[Special Ed]

Thought they were in CA? https://acperformance.net/pages/contact-us

Murrieta, CA is California about an hour and a half north of San Diego.

[PaulP]

Great job!

[SLP]

Removing the transmission:
Again, like everything else on this car, it's really straight forward. Here are some tips:

1) All the transmission to bellhousing bolts are easily accessible except the bolt at 2 o-clock. For that bolt, you will want to use a straight long extension/s (mine was about 3-4ft). so that you can you can turn it with your ratchet out by where the driveshaft would attach. You can't really access the bolt from below or above the bolt location so you have to extend the line and work far away from it if that makes sense.

2) You do not need a clutch line disengagment tool to remove the master clutch line to slave cylinder. It's held on with a light gauge metal retaining clip that you can just pop off with your fingers then pull the line out.

3) I don't like to leave lines/fittings uncovered, especially hydraulic/brake fluid lines. I purchased this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CO7AZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 generic plug kit and used the white plugs to cap the line and it was a perfect fit. See second photo

4) When dropping the transmission, you will want to be able to angle it for the last couple inches to clear the input shaft from the diaphragm spring. I used a harbor freight trans jack and some wood shims. This worked well however it takes time and was the only frustrating part of transmission removal.

Old clutch in bellhousing:
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Capped clutch line:
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Old Trans:
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New Trans (Nth Moto built tr6060):
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New Clutch/flywheel (Nth Moto carbon triple disc):
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[kriskyk]

Details / specs on the new trans?

Are you staying OEM for the slave cylinder?

[SLP]

Details / specs on the new trans?

Are you staying OEM for the slave cylinder?

Nth moto told me this about the transmission I bought:

The transmission itself is setup as what we call our "Hot Rod" TR6060; which we use in builds up to around 1100-1200HP. It takes the factory Viper spec TR6060 gearset and treats it via chryogenics and then REM polishing. The case is media blasted and the sliders and hubs are all hand fit to one another for super smooth shifting action, and bronze fork pads are installed throughout as well as carbon blocker rings. This particular transmission is also already outfitted with three forced oil position ports which you can use or plug as you desire - it's not something really needed until you're in the 4 digit power level so if you're not dealing with that then it's just a nice addition for later should it be needed.

I asked Nth about the slave cylinder and they said to stick with OEM. I purchased a new one and am waiting for it to arrive. My old one was not leaking but I wanted the piece of mind.

[SLP]

Overall this continues to be a really easy car to work on. Some notes:

Removing the Timing Cover:
Knocking the timing cover off was a little tricky. The gasket and dowels used to secure the timing cover to the block really held it on tight. I used a maul, wood, and shims. Using shims and tapping it from each side (left, right, and down below) below helped a ton. I could not find any pictures of the backside of the Gen V timing cover so I included one below. Hopefully this all helps someone!

Removing the Camshaft:
Remove the lifters. Remove the bolts to the variable cam thrust plate housing. It was wanting to turn the crank over so I just jammed a piece of wood between the timing chain and the lower sprocket then it came out just fine. I tilted the engine about an inch and used the mopar camshaft handle https://www.moparessentialtools.com/item-detail.aspx?itemid=21670008&type=tools (10132A ). The camshaft handle helped a ton and it was relatively easy to remove.

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[evomind]

Hes not even dirty!!

[PaulP]

So close to pulling the motor lol, Great job,

[Whiskey]

Power House in Sanford can do it. Doubt it would be 20k

[SLP]

Custom 3" exhaust welded up.

Belanger 90 degree turn outs -> 304 v-band -> 304 tube -> 18" 304 resonator -> stock tips cut at the 3" diameter portion.

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[JGK95]

Subscribed

[Gen5snake]

Nice stack of coins! I can always get the coins, but not always the rainbow look.

[BJG32]

I need to hear idle and rev sound clips!

[Andyk753]

nice build.

[JGK95]

Any update?

[SLP]

I have been spending a lot of time with my dog. She just went through surgery and is healing up nicely!
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Also took a 6-vent hood to get repaired at a local composites company. I bought it used and damaged at a great price. It sure was interested transporting it like this for 60 miles.
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I was removing the stock valves/springs and noticed I had a broken spring.
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[SLP]

Adding heat shielding is a lot easier with the heads off. I am quite proud of how it all came out. I have a solid fuse box heat shield that I made a while ago but I am going to re-do it so it is not seen in this photo.
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New camshaft and thrust plate installed. Thank you RSI. Camshaft went in easily with a home made camshaft handle. I purchased a long bolt that fit the end of the cam since the mopar handle only fits the OEM cam. I took that bolt and epoxied it into an oak dowel. It worked great. I tilted the engine about two inches to allow my handle to clear the front of the engine bay
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Variable timing delete requires this.
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Degreeing the cam. ProForm 66838 fits really well inside the lifter bores on this block. It was snug and gave great repeatable measurements. FYI this degree wheel is great but the inner adapters do not fit viper crank snout/dampener bolts. I made my own inner washer and lock nut contraption to rotate the crank/degree wheel separately.
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[SLP]

Studs, lifters, and heads installed on bank one. Measuring push rod length next time I get to work on the car.
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[Scott_in_fl]

Damn, now I'm convinced that I will be hiring someone to do this for me :) I'm quite handy, and have done motor swaps, but I see this will unfortunately take far more time than I have. Great job and thanks for the pics!!

[SLP]

Damn, now I'm convinced that I will be hiring someone to do this for me :) I'm quite handy, and have done motor swaps, but I see this will unfortunately take far more time than I have. Great job and thanks for the pics!!

If you have all the parts, an understanding of how to work on push rod engines, and full days to work on it, conservatively I would estimate the time as:

a) 2-3x days for tear down/engine removal
b) 1x day for timing the cam/installing valvetrain
c) 2x days for throwing parts back on
d) 1x day for tuning

Using the tips and information in here, I bet you could get some of those times down. I'm saving about 8-15k by going this route and gaining a lot of satisfaction.

[pony23]

Great build. Love reading this thread. I give you props for doing this on your own. I love seeing people doing this stuff at home. ����

[SLP]

Great build. Love reading this thread. I give you props for doing this on your own. I love seeing people doing this stuff at home. ����

Thank you.

Other head installed.
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Timing Cover Install: Replaced the front main seal (see page 6 for proper method). Inside the timing cover is an oil pump that has a ring with two keyways that fits around the crankshaft snout. The oil pump ring that fits around the crank snout is "floating" so to make it not float so that it could be lined up, I put some synthetic grease around the collar of the oil pump ring. The grease kept it from moving around when lifting up the timing cover and putting it on. Another tip is to make sure you have bolt #6 (per manual) on the timing cover inside the timing cover before installing. This bolt will hit the steering rack if you try to put it in after the fact with the engine in. If you fail to do that, you will have to jack the front of the engine up to allow the bolt to line up with the hole and clear the steering rack until you drive it in.

[Space Truckin]

Here you go...

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[Viper79]

What did you do to the heads- what springs? Ported any more than factory cnc ?

[SLP]

What did you do to the heads- what springs? Ported any more than factory cnc ?

Fully ported, oversized valves, dual valve springs, tool steel retainers. It was all part of the kit I purchased from RSI. I don't have flow numbers but the same kit (heads and all) put down 720whp on another pump gas Gen V so it should be more than sufficient.

[Viper79]

So you bought the heads complete? I didn

[SLP]

Yeah definitely not porting my own heads...sent mine out as a core exchange once I got these from RSI/their head porter.

[v10tt]

When is it getting tuned?

[SLP]

I'm not entirely sure as I have to drive 5 hours each way if I want to work on my car. So right now it just depends when I'm up for the drive on a weekend to do that. I'm anticipating no later than the end of March it should be all wrapped up.

[cashcorn]

Great write up and thanks for sharing! I'm coming up to 6yrs with Belangers and AC Performance tune. I only drive my car once or twice a month and my V seems to get slower as I'm getting used to to the HP. This is definitely, my next move. I will have to run hi-flows though. CA emissions suck. Good Luck

[Viper79]

Did rsi have many options for cams-what was the costs for each

[SLP]

Great write up and thanks for sharing! I'm coming up to 6yrs with Belangers and AC Performance tune. I only drive my car once or twice a month and my V seems to get slower as I'm getting used to to the HP. This is definitely, my next move. I will have to run hi-flows though. CA emissions suck. Good Luck

Thanks, I'm pretty excited to get it all wrapped up soon. If you're buying parts and doing the install yourself, feel free to reach out if you ever have questions. I know Will at RSI would say the same. He has been extremely helpful. If you end up buying parts through him, tell him Erikkson sent you and he should be able to strike a fair deal.


Did rsi have many options for cams-what was the costs for each
I know he's spec'd out at least a NA and a turbo cam for Gen Vs. Throughout this whole process I've had a handful of people share what Gen V cam cards they have from viper shops that have sold them their spec'd cams. The NA one he spec'd out for me is pretty aggressive in comparisons to other shops. The same cam in his h/c package put down 720 whp so it's definitely rowdy enough. I just told him what I wanted as far as performance and he had it made to meet my desires. He has his cams made from one of the, if not the best cam manufacturer in the US too.
.

[Whiskey]

Looking forward to seeing how the clutch works out. At some point my stocker will give up the ghost. I had a Roe710R cam and loved the lumpy idle but great drivability. It was pretty aggressive but perfect IMHOP. I wish I could get a similar cam in my G5 as that cam rocked NA and with my Paxton. 710R + Paxton was a match made in heaven.

[Viper79]

I wonder how the drag pack car they put the viper motor in- how that cam is?

[SLP]

Timing cover on. RSI oil cooler lines installed. Oil cooler lines were fairly easy to install with the oil pan off. With the oil pan on, I imagine getting to the block/timing cover oil bungs would be a lot harder. I used a thin adjustable wrench to access the block bung. The rest are easy to get to.
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I replaced my input shaft bearing since my local "viper mechanic" ruined my old one and never replaced it. To pull the old one out, I stuffed the hole with bread/wax paper/grease and tapped on a bolt that fit the inner diameter. This pushed the old roller bearing out. I put the new one in by freezing it then tapping it in with a dowel/hammer. It went in with minimal resistance.
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Nth moto triple disc clutch install went in without much of a hitch. Follow the directions on the gen IV Nth Carbon Clutch install thread (https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/21571-Nth-Moto-Gen-4-Clutch). I did not do anything differently except for 1) To center the mopar alignment shaft in the hole, I used a socket to split the difference in the gap and act as a spacer to hold it right in the middle. Thank you Aaron at Nth for the tip.
d42113
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Oil pan is installed. Put the gasket on the pan first if you're doing it with the engine in the car.

[Steve M]

Nth moto triple disc clutch install went in without much of a hitch. Follow the directions on the gen IV Nth Carbon Clutch install thread. I did not do anything differently except for 1) To center the mopar alignment shaft in the hole, I used a socket to split the difference in the gap and act as a spacer to hold it right in the middle. Thank you Aaron at Nth for the tip.

That's an awesome tip...that would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation, especially since I did it on my back with jack stands. I'm going to link to this post in that thread to hopefully save others time as well.

[Jack B]

That's an awesome tip...that would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation, especially since I did it on my back with jack stands. I'm going to link to this post in that thread to hopefully save others time as well.

A plastic doughnut would be pretty easy to machine.

[SLP]

That's an awesome tip...that would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation, especially since I did it on my back with jack stands. I'm going to link to this post in that thread to hopefully save others time as well.
Thanks for your original thread, it was very helpful.


A plastic doughnut would be pretty easy to machine.
Agreed, a doughnut or cone of some sort would also work.

[SLP]

Transmission Install:
Don't lose a bolt like I did. The transmission to bellhousing bolts are a strange metric size so I had to order OEM. Transmission went in smooth with some patience. Take it in steps:
1) Loosen the engine mounts and tilt the rear of the engine down.
2) Match the angle with the transmission on your transmission jack (an unmodified HarborJunk transmission jack worked perfectly for me).
3) Raise and slide the transmission in.
4) If the transmission input shaft does not go in smooth, temporarily install the driveshaft into the trans output shaft to turn the input shaft so the teeth line up with the clutch. Once the input shaft teeth line up with the clutch teeth, you wont be able to easily rotate the driveshaft anymore so go ahead and push the transmission in. Watch the transmission/bellhousing angles and make sure the gap is even.
5) Install the shifter and plugs with the transmission/engine angled down. It's way easier than when it's all the way up in the tunnel.
TKO Transmission Mount:
If you use a TKO transmission mount, their instructions tell you that the two center bolts should be torqued to 40ftlbs. Don't do this as it will severely deform and squish the urethane layer out. I emailed TKO and they said to bolt it down until it just starts to squish/deform. For me it started to squish/deform at 20ftlbs so I put some locktite on them and torqued to 20ftlbs. I have no idea why their instructions say to torque to 40ft/lbs when it deforms at not even close to that point.
Driveshaft:
Install like any other driveshaft. Line up your balancing/orientation marks and install with new straps/hardware (Spicer 3-70-48X Bearing Strap Kit). a short 8mm socket is nice to have here. I had to use a small universal joint though as the driveshaft body blocks a clear line of sight to the bolt heads for torquing.
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[SLP]

Single piece chromoly push rods and stock rocker arms installed
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Intake manifold installed. Install the fuel rails first as they have a solid hose bridging the two underneath the intake manifold.
42290
Headers installed. It's so much easier to work on this car once you have already had practice doing something (e.g., installing headers). If I were to do this whole project again, I would reckon that it would take half the time. Very easy car to work on!

[Jack B]

Nice write-up, for future reference, rotating the rear wheels/diff stub will allow an unobstructed access to the universal joint bolts with a ratchet/extension. there are also multiple references (oem manuals) to the torque value on the universal bolts, the required torque is 28 ft lbs.

[SLP]

Ah good tip, I didn't think about extending it with a long extension. I just went with a short socket and a universal joint.

Yep definitely installed to torque...like all the bolts. I hope it goes without saying but torque values matter. If you're considering working on your viper and don't have a shop manual, buy one.

[Jack B]

Ah good tip, I didn't think about extending it with a long extension. I just went with a short socket and a universal joint.

Yep definitely installed to torque...like all the bolts. I hope it goes without saying but torque values matter. If you're considering working on your viper and don't have a shop manual, buy one.

Another trick, leave the trans in neutral, you can still turn the input shaft by turning the tail shaft stub by hand.

[98intrigue]

Such a great read! Looking forward to hearing this thing. Who will be doing the tunin?

[ACRSNK]

Great job and great thread

[SLP]

Tuning later today!
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[SLP]

Base tune in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4uwinYvffA

[viper04]

Sounds nice!

[SLP]

This car is insane. Took it out and set off a neighbors car alarm just backing out of the driveway. I have decided to add another 12" muffler on each side. It drives really really smooth above 2k rpms. Tuner is smoothing out the lower ranges then once that's sorted, WOT logging!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHPky_vvTa8

[camarochevy1970]

i can't play the video at work, what kind of power did you make?

[Old School]

This car is insane. Took it out and set off a neighbors car alarm just backing out of the driveway. I have decided to add another 12" muffler on each side. It drives really really smooth above 2k rpms. Tuner is smoothing out the lower ranges then once that's sorted, WOT logging!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHPky_vvTa8

That idle alone is worth the effort you put in to it.....

[Jack B]

This car is insane. Took it out and set off a neighbors car alarm just backing out of the driveway. I have decided to add another 12" muffler on each side. It drives really really smooth above 2k rpms. Tuner is smoothing out the lower ranges then once that's sorted, WOT logging!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHPky_vvTa8

The hard spot to tune is typically the 1500-2000 area, plus, the 2.26 first gear does not help.

[98intrigue]

This car is insane. Took it out and set off a neighbors car alarm just backing out of the driveway. I have decided to add another 12" muffler on each side. It drives really really smooth above 2k rpms. Tuner is smoothing out the lower ranges then once that's sorted, WOT logging!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHPky_vvTa8

That sounds ridiculous! Why are you adding mufflers? I'm still running the OEM mufflers which seems to keep most of the drone out, but I'm getting the itch to switch them out.

[SLP]

The hard spot to tune is typically the 1500-2000 area, plus, the 2.26 first gear does not help.

For anyone with a heads/big cam gen V, do you have any surging at low RPMs? My remote tuner, Torrie, has lessened it quite a bit but it's still present in 1st and 2nd low rpms. I'm not sure what my expectations should be. We aren't done yet though, Torrie is very thorough!


That sounds ridiculous! Why are you adding mufflers? I'm still running the OEM mufflers which seems to keep most of the drone out, but I'm getting the itch to switch them out.

Because what I have (single 18" x 3" diameter resonator/muffler on each side) is not enough. I'm setting off car alarms just trolling through the neighborhood. I'm going to double it up and do two 18" x 3" resonator/mufflers on each side.

[Arizona Vipers]

This car is insane. Took it out and set off a neighbors car alarm just backing out of the driveway. I have decided to add another 12" muffler on each side. It drives really really smooth above 2k rpms. Tuner is smoothing out the lower ranges then once that's sorted, WOT logging!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHPky_vvTa8

:dude3:

[Whiskey]

Maybe try a Gen3 cat-back. Big cam on that sounds crazy good. Shoot me a number and I'll send you a video clip. The setup was a Roe710R cam with a Paxton SC through ARH heads, no cats and STOCK Gen3 Cat-back. Didn't drone but was plenty loud but had a sick lumpy-lumpy idle.


Edit: Before anyone say anything about cabin heat...I never had an issue even driving in Florida summers.

[Old School]

Edit: Before anyone say anything about cabin heat...I never had an issue even driving in Florida summers.

This is true, when you get rid of the cats, you get rid of the heat.

[outnumbered]

For anyone with a heads/big cam gen V, do you have any surging at low RPMs? My remote tuner, Torrie, has lessened it quite a bit but it's still present in 1st and 2nd low rpms. I'm not sure what my expectations should be. We aren't done yet though, Torrie is very thorough!


I have an A&C car, and it has the surging sensation at lower rpm's. My Vengeance H/C car didn't do it at all, but it had a milder cam. I plan on having Torrie take a look at mine as well.

[camarochevy1970]

what rpm range do you have the surge?

[SLP]

I have an A&C car, and it has the surging sensation at lower rpm's. My Vengeance H/C car didn't do it at all, but it had a milder cam. I plan on having Torrie take a look at mine as well.

It's been a good experience so far road tuning with Torrie. He takes his time, is thorough, and appears to be very thoughtful about delivering the best service that he can. I'm not experienced with tuning/HPT and he was patient in answering all my questions and helping me get set up. He also replies to all emails in a timely matter which has been very nice.


what rpm range do you have the surge?
~1500-2100. Torrie has smoothed it out dramatically but there's still a little bit present. Any idea if that's just what I should expect on a cam with a large overlap? It's interesting to read that Outnumbered's A&C car had surge, I always thought theirs did not after seeing a couple A&C videos where the owner? was demonstrating that their h/c gen V's were smooth on the street.

[outnumbered]

Around 2000, at lower speeds. Once I get above 60mph, she's fine.

[camarochevy1970]

large overlap cams can cause that, but generally lower rpm, but that is my experience in a v8. May be different in a v10 with a more aggressive cam

[Whiskey]

I had a very small amount of surge on my Gen3 with a Roe710R cam and Paxton. Larry Macedo did the tuning. Honestly I only noticed it in parking lots. Once above parking lot speed I could lug it around in 6th at 65mph (1200rpm-ish) and it never bucked or surged. The car seemed to like being at 80mph though that was about 1500rpm and still returned 24-25mpg on the hwy and that is nuts for 850rwhp+

[Old School]

Around 2000, at lower speeds. Once I get above 60mph, she's fine.
This is what mine does. Only surges around 2k RPM in the lower 4 gears. Not at 1700, not 2300. Won't surge in 5th or 6th, not enough torque multiplication.

[Gen5snake]

Surging annoys me to the point that I would rather take some power out and install a milder cam. As camarochevy1970 stated, large overlaps can cause that. The vacuum fluctuates wildly at low rpms and that wreaks havoc with the map sensor/fueling causing the surge. Some aftermarket engine management ECU's/software allow you to smooth out the signal going to the MAP sensor to mitigate the issue.

[Nth Moto]

It has more to do with load than it does RPM, but 2K rpm is an interesting spot for wave tuning on the odd fire V10.

We tell people all the time with honesty, that there is no magic trick to make low rpm low LOAD (read, high manifold vacuum situations, such as in a parking lot or steady speed hold with very low throttle positions) situations buttery smooth like stock when you have a cam with the valve timing events needed to make the peak power people want to see. I'm completely confident in saying that condition will exist in anyone's engine package if it truly makes the power that is either claimed and/or desired. Typically that changeover seems to be around 750-760 BHP on most combinations. Some will douse the engine with fuel to try to calm it down but that leads to other issues long term.

Plain and simple, you can't always have your cake and eat it too with naturally aspirated combinations. You can try and get close to it, but there will always be some level of sacrifice as the power goal goes up.

[Old School]

I actually don't mind the surging, if I wanted an absolutely smooth driving vehicle I'd get a Tesla.

[outnumbered]

I am not overly concerned with it, because once I go full throttle, all Hell breaks loose. This car is noticeably stronger than my milder cam Vengeance car. I'm just more curious if the tune can be fine tuned, and maybe even get a little more HP.

[outnumbered]

It has more to do with load than it does RPM, but 2K rpm is an interesting spot for wave tuning on the odd fire V10.

We tell people all the time with honesty, that there is no magic trick to make low rpm low LOAD (read, high manifold vacuum situations, such as in a parking lot or steady speed hold with very low throttle positions) situations buttery smooth like stock when you have a cam with the valve timing events needed to make the peak power people want to see. I'm completely confident in saying that condition will exist in anyone's engine package if it truly makes the power that is either claimed and/or desired. Typically that changeover seems to be around 750-760 BHP on most combinations. Some will douse the engine with fuel to try to calm it down but that leads to other issues long term.

Plain and simple, you can't always have your cake and eat it too with naturally aspirated combinations. You can try and get close to it, but there will always be some level of sacrifice as the power goal goes up.

This in regards to load^^^I just usually offset by riding around town in a lower gear. Whereas I used to run 45mph in 4th, I now do it in 3rd. Car sounds mean, and takes the surging out.

[Nth Moto]

This in regards to load^^^I just usually offset by riding around town in a lower gear. Whereas I used to run 45mph in 4th, I now do it in 3rd. Car sounds mean, and takes the surging out.

Correct, and conversely if you go to WOT at 1500-2000 RPM the engine won't surge either as the load is increased. You just have to drive the car like it's a modified car and accept that those changes will be needed. My statements are largely generic and giving light to the idea for the OP that there will be some compromises to achieve the gains desired.

[Gen5snake]

what about being in 3rd or 4th gear under 2000 rpm steady state...lot's a load and lot's of surge.

[Nth Moto]

what about being in 3rd or 4th gear under 2000 rpm steady state...lot's a load and lot's of surge.

It's not a lot of load at all - the Viper's displacement and engine design overall allows it to be able to do that with ease; typically less than 15% actual throttle blade opening and as little as 30-40 kpa manifold pressure.

[J TNT]

Does anyone know what cam spec gives decent Horsepower and Drive abilty , ie No bucking ???

[outnumbered]

Does anyone know what cam spec gives decent Horsepower and Drive abilty , ie No bucking ???

My Vengeance car had a 232/244 with .380” gross lift and a 113 LCA which has right at 12* overlap. With a Torrie tune for 91 octane, it made 666 with what the new owner is reporting as great driveability. Even with their tuning, I experienced no surging. Vengeance told me that the cam was the milder of the two that they offered.

I believe VE uses:

Intake lobe is at 234 duration and 0.617” valve lift
Exhaust lobe is 242 duration and 0.617” valve lift.

[J TNT]

My Vengeance car had a 232/244 with .380” gross lift and a 113 LCA which has right at 12* overlap. With a Torrie tune for 91 octane, it made 666 with what the new owner is reporting as great driveability. Even with their tuning, I experienced no surging. Vengeance told me that the cam was the milder of the two that they offered.

I believe VE uses:

Intake lobe is at 234 duration and 0.617” valve lift
Exhaust lobe is 242 duration and 0.617” valve lift.

Thanks Outnumbered and great HP Number .

[Jack B]

Another complication is for those cars that have the .5 sixth gear. You really have to be above a cruise of 70 in 6th gear to minimize the surge. As stated the problem is not the load, it is the lack of a load.

[SLP]

It has more to do with load than it does RPM, but 2K rpm is an interesting spot for wave tuning on the odd fire V10.

We tell people all the time with honesty, that there is no magic trick to make low rpm low LOAD (read, high manifold vacuum situations, such as in a parking lot or steady speed hold with very low throttle positions) situations buttery smooth like stock when you have a cam with the valve timing events needed to make the peak power people want to see. I'm completely confident in saying that condition will exist in anyone's engine package if it truly makes the power that is either claimed and/or desired. Typically that changeover seems to be around 750-760 BHP on most combinations. Some will douse the engine with fuel to try to calm it down but that leads to other issues long term.

Plain and simple, you can't always have your cake and eat it too with naturally aspirated combinations. You can try and get close to it, but there will always be some level of sacrifice as the power goal goes up.


Correct, and conversely if you go to WOT at 1500-2000 RPM the engine won't surge either as the load is increased. You just have to drive the car like it's a modified car and accept that those changes will be needed. My statements are largely generic and giving light to the idea for the OP that there will be some compromises to achieve the gains desired.

Great information, thanks Nth, Jack, and everyone else for chiming in. I really feel like the Gen V forum would benefit from more technical discussions and it's great to see some information coming out in here. Torrie is correctly correcting what he can and I will just deal with minor surging, it's not really a big deal and it seems like I can change a few minor things to my driving style in order to avoid it. I should be completing my next phase of road tuning on Friday, I had to leave town for a work contract. Hopefully I can remember to strap a camera to the car to collect a video for y'all of the next pull I do.


Hey Nth, on the topic of discussing what we experience in these cars when modified, can you chime in about couple sounds (albeit barely over loud engine/exhaust noises) i'm hearing on your parts :
1) Clutch sounds like marbles in a can during certain situations. I've read a few other people reporting this experience on the forums but never could find an answer to the cause of the noise and why it happens after some owners install your RPS triple disc.
2) 5th gear on the used hotrod nth transmission I bought from you/your customer has a high pitch whine when engaged. The wine increases in loudness with rpms. Sound is not present in any other gear. I just got into 5th gear for the first time the other day for like 20 seconds so I don't have much experience understanding this sound yet.

Are these sounds typical? No mechanical difficulties observed so far. Everything appears to operate how it should, I'm just hearing a few extra sounds fro the drivetrain and I would like to know the "why" per sae.

[Nth Moto]

Great information, thanks Nth, Jack, and everyone else for chiming in. I really feel like the Gen V forum would benefit from more technical discussions and it's great to see some information coming out in here. Torrie is correctly correcting what he can and I will just deal with minor surging, it's not really a big deal and it seems like I can change a few minor things to my driving style in order to avoid it. I should be completing my next phase of road tuning on Friday, I had to leave town for a work contract. Hopefully I can remember to strap a camera to the car to collect a video for y'all of the next pull I do.


Hey Nth, on the topic of discussing what we experience in these cars when modified, can you chime in about couple sounds (albeit barely over loud engine/exhaust noises) i'm hearing on your parts :
1) Clutch sounds like marbles in a can during certain situations. I've read a few other people reporting this experience on the forums but never could find an answer to the cause of the noise and why it happens after some owners install your RPS triple disc.
2) 5th gear on the used hotrod nth transmission I bought from you/your customer has a high pitch whine when engaged. The wine increases in loudness with rpms. Sound is not present in any other gear. I just got into 5th gear for the first time the other day for like 20 seconds so I don't have much experience understanding this sound yet.

Are these sounds typical? No mechanical difficulties observed so far. Everything appears to operate how it should, I'm just hearing a few extra sounds fro the drivetrain and I would like to know the "why" per sae.

Do you have factory mounts on the engine and transmission or other? If other, which?

1)"Neutral Gear Rattle" is a thing that is case by case on the transmission clearances and how the sound may transmit through the chassis. The more solid the mounts, the more noise you'll hear. There are no straps in the clutch design to retain the discs when the clutch is open/disengaged so there can be noise there as they rattle around, but it should be fairly minimal compared to a non-strapped multiplate metal or ceramic disc design due to the carbon properties themselves.
2) I suppose get some additional time on it (more than 20 seconds) to experience it more and email Aaron on what you observe in case this isn't being monitored. The modifications done to the Hot Rod box don't increase noise in any specific gear typically.

[SLP]

Calvo engine mounts, TKO transmission mount.

Sounds good, I should be getting more seat time soon but work has me traveling all over the state and it's been raining heavily in oregon. Will follow up with an email when I get more data.

[Nth Moto]

Calvo engine mounts, TKO transmission mount.

Sounds good, I should be getting more seat time soon but work has me traveling all over the state and it's been raining heavily in oregon. Will follow up with an email when I get more data.

Sounds like a great plan! As a heads up, a non-OEM transmission mount will introduce a large amount of NVH into the chassis/cabin. The TKO piece looks very, very nice and it certainly has it's performance/design advantages but will bring a significant increase in noise as a tradeoff. I have no experience with the Calvo mounts specifically, but any aftermarket mount will have a tradeoff of NVH for the gain intended, but some designs may transmit more than others.
Aside from that, nice job getting the car together!

[Jack B]

I have had other aftermarket clutches in my Gen5 and the sound level of the Nth Moto clutch is not any greater. When you look at the design, it looks like it should rattle, but, in my car it does not. As was already stated, solid motor/trans mounts have several side issues and can exacerbate sound and vibration. I have tried them and ended up removing them. On the other hand, at higher hp, the advantages should be on the plus side.
,


Do you have factory mounts on the engine and transmission or other? If other, which?

1)"Neutral Gear Rattle" is a thing that is case by case on the transmission clearances and how the sound may transmit through the chassis. The more solid the mounts, the more noise you'll hear. There are no straps in the clutch design to retain the discs when the clutch is open/disengaged so there can be noise there as they rattle around, but it should be fairly minimal compared to a non-strapped multiplate metal or ceramic disc design due to the carbon properties themselves.
2) I suppose get some additional time on it (more than 20 seconds) to experience it more and email Aaron on what you observe in case this isn't being monitored. The modifications done to the Hot Rod box don't increase noise in any specific gear typically.

[SLP]

Everything is running great unfortunately a slight oil leak from the front appeared in the lower timing cover/pan area after longer tuning drives.

Jacked the car up, cleaned the area since oil appeared to be flung in all directions. Started the car and noticed that under load a slight stream of oil started to appear from the the crank snout/crank seal. I replaced the seal with an OEM one during my cam install but must have nicked it or something? Either way, I have to pull and replace the seal. Lesson learned to not use the socket method to put a new seal on. In order to install another seal without removing the timing cover, I'm going to buy the specialized tools that the manual recommends for a front crank seal replacement (Miller C4679A & Miller 10030). Silver lining is that this is a relatively superficial and easy problem to fix. Granted I've never replaced a front crank seal with a timing cover still on. It will be interesting learning how the Miller tools work. Does anyone have experience replacing these seals with the timing cover still on the vehicle?
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[Old School]

I replaced the seal with an OEM one during my cam install but must have nicked it or something?

Don't know about a GenV, but when I did my Gen3 the shop manual said to install the timing cover, then install the seal, so you don't damage the seal. It was easy to installed using a socket over the crank snout, with the motor mounts unbolted, engine jacked up for hammer clearance.

[SLP]

Don't know about a GenV, but when I did my Gen3 the shop manual said to install the timing cover, then install the seal, so you don't damage the seal. It was easy to installed using a socket over the crank snout, with the motor mounts unbolted, engine jacked up for hammer clearance.

You are correct, I just checked and the V manual says to install the cover then the seal. I think I got ahead of myself or thought it would be easier to do the seal on the cover then the cover on. Order of operations is important! I'll take it though if that's the only mistake with my build hah

[Old School]

You are correct, I just checked and the V manual says to install the cover then the seal. I think I got ahead of myself or thought it would be easier to do the seal on the cover then the cover on. Order of operations is important! I'll take it though if that's the only mistake with my build hah


Yea, every other timing cover/seal I've installed has been the other way around. Could probably do it on an engine stand where you can see what you're doing. But in the car, the cover is big, awkward and a little heavy.

[SLP]

Yea, every other timing cover/seal I've installed has been the other way around. Could probably do it on an engine stand, but in the car, the cover is big, awkward and a little heavy.

Yeah agreed. I was just working on a small block magnum and it called for the seal to go on the cover, then the cover on. Hopefully this actually is the problem and it's not a symptom from too much crankcase pressure.

Cheers!

[SLP]

I have had other aftermarket clutches in my Gen5 and the sound level of the Nth Moto clutch is not any greater. When you look at the design, it looks like it should rattle, but, in my car it does not. As was already stated, solid motor/trans mounts have several side issues and can exacerbate sound and vibration. I have tried them and ended up removing them. On the other hand, at higher hp, the advantages should be on the plus side.
,


Sounds like a great plan! As a heads up, a non-OEM transmission mount will introduce a large amount of NVH into the chassis/cabin. The TKO piece looks very, very nice and it certainly has it's performance/design advantages but will bring a significant increase in noise as a tradeoff. I have no experience with the Calvo mounts specifically, but any aftermarket mount will have a tradeoff of NVH for the gain intended, but some designs may transmit more than others.
Aside from that, nice job getting the car together!

Thanks you two. It sure runs and shifts as smooth as butter! Just some interesting rotating noises. I'll hone it in when I get more seat time in. I still have the OEM engine/transmission mounts too so I might try swapping them in to compare if I ever get bored. Do you think the increased NVH from more rigid engine/trans mounts would put extra stress on the chassis that could be detrimental to it's integrity over time? I plan on having this car my whole life and running the snot out of it over the years.

[Jack B]

Yeah agreed. I was just working on a small block magnum and it called for the seal to go on the cover, then the cover on. Hopefully this actually is the problem and it's not a symptom from too much crankcase pressure.

Cheers!

Do you have a catch can/breather?

[SLP]

Yeah just the DSE Single (passenger) sealed can though.

[Steve M]

Thanks you two. It sure runs and shifts as smooth as butter! Just some interesting rotating noises. I'll hone it in when I get more seat time in. I still have the OEM engine/transmission mounts too so I might try swapping them in too to compare. Do you think the increased NVH from more rigid engine/trans mounts would put extra stress on the chassis that could be detrimental to it's integrity over time? I plan on having this car my whole life and running the snot out of it over the years.

Mine still sounds like marbles rattling around in a can in 5th and 6th gear (and it always has since installing the Nth Moto clutch), but I can easily drown out the noise by doing one of two things:

1. Roll down the windows
2. Turn up my stereo to a very reasonable volume

My clutch is holding up quite well to my abuse at the drag strip, so I'll deal with a little extra noise. I can't say the same for my stock clutch. I'm also running OEM engine and trans mounts in my Gen 4 for reference.

[Jack B]

Mine still sounds like marbles rattling around in a can in 5th and 6th gear (and it always has since installing the Nth Moto clutch), but I can easily drown out the noise by doing one of two things:

1. Roll down the windows
2. Turn up my stereo to a very reasonable volume

My clutch is holding up quite well to my abuse at the drag strip, so I'll deal with a little extra noise. I can't say the same for my stock clutch. I'm also running OEM engine and trans mounts in my Gen 4 for reference.

That is different than NGR, the NthMoto clutch is a solid hub, that noise is the diff and engine sort of fighting each other. It is like the 1st gear surge, but, in 5th/6th gear

[Steve M]

That is different than NGR, the NthMoto clutch is a solid hub, that noise is the diff and engine sort of fighting each other. It is like the 1st gear surge, but, in 5th/6th gear

Correct...mine does not have NGR, at least not that I've ever noticed.

[sadil]

Amazing write up.

So heads are from RSI and tune is from Torrie?

You used HP tuners to install the tune?

[SLP]

Just got back in town for the weekend and am hopefully finishing up all the loose ends. Today this happened:

1) Removed TKO transmission mount and put the OEM one back so that I can compare. Tips: None. A monkey can do this.
2) Transmission fluid change from the Mopar ATF4+ to a thicker Redline fluid per Nth recommendations.
3) Harmonic damper was removed. Tips: I recommend using the shortest possible harmonic damper puller. I had a short one but even then, had to modify it to make it more compact.
4) Front crank seal was replaced. Tips: Buy the mopar one-use tools that the manual recommends. They worked flawlessly and leave zero room for error if used thoughtfully. The extractor tool that slides over the crank snout and removes the front seal is great. However, make sure you plug the inner cavity of the crank snout with something. I recommend an oak dowel cut to length, That way when backing out the tool, it has something to push off against. The threaded hole inside the crank snout is very long and the tool does not account for that. You need to fill the void with a spacer of some sort. Here's the extractor tool in action.

43291



Amazing write up.

So heads are from RSI and tune is from Torrie?

You used HP tuners to install the tune?

Thank you. Yes, heads, cam, & valvetrain components were purchased as a h/c kit from Will at RSI. Triple carbon clutch and built tr6060 were purchased from Nth Moto. Remote tuning using HPtuners with Torrie.

[SLP]

A compression and leakdown test were conducted to make sure my build is 100% Engine has 23,xxx miles. ~300 miles on the h/c build.

Cylinder) Compression/Leakdown:

1) 170/8%
2) 167/9%
3) 170/4%
4) 170/6%
5) 165/8%
6) 162/5%
7) 170/10%
8) 170/7%
9) 160/9%
10) 160/10%

Engine is in great health and shifts like butter. Thank you RSI/NTH for the awesome parts and Torrie @ Unleashed for the remote tuning. Here is a quick easy cruising clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdrfTQSzUDA

[Gen5snake]

Sounds good.