Why is it always the battery s fault

[ViperGeorge]

There are countless threads on here where someone posts about some problem they have. Invariably someone will respond "replace the battery". Why do so many people believe the battery is at fault? I have run Vipers (after jump starts) with batteries that are almost completely dead (like reading less than 5 volts). The cars have run fine, no issues, no codes, no limp mode, no nothing. I ran one car after it was transported back from a VOI with a battery that was almost totally dead. I had to have AAA jump start it for me. I drove that car 30 miles home and when I got home the battery was still only reading 4.6 volts. No issues with the car other than the battery was too weak to start it. That battery I did replace but not because it made the car run poorly.

I have never understood why so many folks believe a discharged or bad battery is at fault every time a code shows up. Doesn't the car run off the alternator once it is started? While I haven't tried it I would bet you could disconnect the battery once the engine is running and it would continue to run just fine. I think giving people this advice causes them to spend money replacing something that doesn't need replacing. Heck it would be cheaper just to tell them to spend $15 on a volt meter to check the battery's voltage.

[serpent]

For me it really was the batteries being low. Not enough juice to crank a heavy v10 8.4L crank.
Problem was I would play music while cleaning and detailing the car. Also, battery was about 4+ years old. Electricals would work fine and even play loud music, but just couldnt turn the engine to start. I got mine covered under warranty, apparently dodge has to run tests on the battery first to get it covered.

[ViperGeorge]

For me it really was the batteries being low. Not enough juice to crank a heavy v10 8.4L crank.
Problem was I would play music while cleaning and detailing the car. Also, battery was about 4+ years old. Electricals would work fine and even play loud music, but just couldnt turn the engine to start. I got mine covered under warranty, apparently dodge has to run tests on the battery first to get it covered.

Yes, but I'm not talking about a battery that is too low to start the car. That I get. I'm talking about people saying "replace the battery" when some arbitrary code shows up. There is actually a current thread on this forum where that exact thing happened. The OP had codes and one of the responses was "replace the battery".

[DirtyD]

Many Gen1&2 issues were caused by weak or faulty batteries. Search the VCA forums.
Pair this with many Vipers sitting for long periods of time without full battery charge (which is not good for batteries) and it makes sense for step one of troubleshooting many problems to be dropping in a fresh battery.

I have no idea if this is as relevant to later years (Gen3,4,5 vipers), but it is possible that the mentality from Gen1/2 days just carried along.
I miss back in the day when the Wizard or SRT engineers would drop in on threads like this and school us...

[Old School]

This is a good question, considering one of the benifits of a Viper is that they use Chrysler's corporate engine controller, body controller, etc. They have about zillion hours of developent/testing on them. They're not some one-off, semi-prototype modules.

[Steve M]

This is a good question, considering one of the benifits of a Viper is that they use Chrysler's corporate engine controller, body controller, etc. They have about zillion hours of developent/testing on them. They're not some one-off, semi-prototype modules.

The Viper engine controller is shared with nothing else in Chrysler's lineup.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

DAMN BATTERIES !!!!


A Viper battery under 10.4 volts will NOT start the car. If it has 5 volts (for example) You MUST piggy-back some sort of Jump / Charge device to boost the voltage up to at least 10.5.

Why? The coils wont send spark if they dont have and maintain at least 10.5+ V.

9 volts might get you a WWAHh, Waahh, wahh, click, click, ...........but WONT start.

Aging batteries that were not on fully-floating automatic tenders can often get corrosion on their plates, and not deliver enuf cranking amps, due in large part to the long cable runs from the rear of the car.

One new device, "Battery Saver" actually cleans battery plates with pulse-charge floating technology, vs trickle/float. www.batterysaver.com (http://www.batterysaver,com) IS WORTH A LOOK. Educational too.


And regarding the controller Steve M, Partially correct: G 1 Vipers shares a portion of the Jeep/Truck controller.

[Jack B]

To back up Jon, a battery at 85% of rating is totally nonfunctional or dead. That 10V threshold is also the damage point to the plates, it will never have the same ampHrs as a new battery. In other words very time you bring the battery down to that 85% voltage level you permanently reduce the capacity.


DAMN BATTERIES !!!!


A Viper battery under 10.4 volts will NOT start the car. If it has 5 volts (for example) You MUST piggy-back some sort of Jump / Charge device to boost the voltage up to at least 10.5.

Why? The coils wont send spark if they dont have and maintain at least 10.5+ V.

9 volts might get you a WWAHh, Waahh, wahh, click, click, ...........but WONT start.

Aging batteries that were not on fully-floating automatic tenders can often get corrosion on their plates, and not deliver enuf cranking amps, due in large part to the long cable runs from the rear of the car.

One new device, "Battery Saver" actually cleans battery plates with pulse-charge floating technology, vs trickle/float. www.batterysaver,com (http://www.batterysaver,com) IS WORTH A LOOK. Educational too.


And regarding the controller Steve M, Partially correct: G 1 Vipers shares a portion of the Jeep/Truck controller.

[viperBase1]

And maintain a tight clean GROUND strap.

I've resolved a number of head scratching problems on friends cars just by cleaning up the damn ground strap.

First world big V10 problems though eh.. :drive:

[ViperGeorge]

DAMN BATTERIES !!!!


A Viper battery under 10.4 volts will NOT start the car. If it has 5 volts (for example) You MUST piggy-back some sort of Jump / Charge device to boost the voltage up to at least 10.5.

Why? The coils wont send spark if they dont have and maintain at least 10.5+ V.

9 volts might get you a WWAHh, Waahh, wahh, click, click, ...........but WONT start.

Aging batteries that were not on fully-floating automatic tenders can often get corrosion on their plates, and not deliver enuf cranking amps, due in large part to the long cable runs from the rear of the car.

One new device, "Battery Saver" actually cleans battery plates with pulse-charge floating technology, vs trickle/float. www.batterysaver,com (http://www.batterysaver,com) IS WORTH A LOOK. Educational too.


And regarding the controller Steve M, Partially correct: G 1 Vipers shares a portion of the Jeep/Truck controller.

Jon, to clarify, I'm not talking about a battery that is too weak to start the car. I'm talking about people blaming the battery for various codes when the engine is already running. In most of these cases the battery was strong enough to start the engine yet somehow people blame it when some code comes up or when the car isn't running correctly. This makes no sense to me. As I've said I've driven Vipers where the battery was putting out less than 5 volts. Yes, it had to be jump started but once started they ran perfectly.

So for the sake of this thread let's keep the posts to issues where the battery is blamed for problems even though the engine is already running. If the battery is too weak to start the car then naturally the car would need a jump and the battery may need to be replaced.

In fact as an example see post #2 in this thread.https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/24990-Sensor-issues?p=393335#post393335 Note that Steve (not to pick on him) said "When in doubt blame the battery" This is only one example of many. What leads people to blame the battery and suggest its replacement when it was strong enough to start the car in the first place?

[ViperTony]

And maintain a tight clean GROUND strap.

I've resolved a number of head scratching problems on friends cars just by cleaning up the damn ground strap.

First world big V10 problems though eh.. :drive:

Ditto on the ground straps, especially in our older Vipers!

[Steve-Indy]

ViperGeorge and I are really in agreement about blaming the battery without objective evidence (hence the exclamation point at the end of the statement...sorry that I didn't make that point more clearly). My post was meant to encourage the original poster to provide more info through testing...i.e., using a proper code reader, and, certainly test the voltage in the system itself. And, as one will note, more info was provided later. Nothing was said about buying a new battery in situation.

As noted, I carry code readers in ALL of our vehicles...including the Vipers. They can be a great help given these "code-laden" newer cars.

[ViperGeorge]

ViperGeorge and I are really in agreement about blaming the battery without objective evidence (hence the exclamation point at the end of the statement...sorry that I didn't make that point more clearly). My post was meant to encourage the original poster to provide more info through testing...i.e., using a proper code reader, and, certainly test the voltage in the system itself. And, as one will note, more info was provided later. Nothing was said about buying a new battery in situation.

As noted, I carry code readers in ALL of our vehicles...including the Vipers. They can be a great help given these "code-laden" newer cars.

Thanks. I didn't get that you were being sarcastic. None the less, it does seem like many people do in fact blame the battery with little or no evidence.

[IndyRon]

Thanks. I didn't get that you were being sarcastic. None the less, it does seem like many people do in fact blame the battery with little or no evidence.

It's probably also fair to assume that at least 10% of the replacement batteries served as a $150-disconnect battery terminal and reattach-ECU reset procedure rather than the zero dollar variety.

[SA Heat]

DAMN BATTERIES !!!!


A Viper battery under 10.4 volts will NOT start the car. If it has 5 volts (for example) You MUST piggy-back some sort of Jump / Charge device to boost the voltage up to at least 10.5.

Why? The coils wont send spark if they dont have and maintain at least 10.5+ V.

9 volts might get you a WWAHh, Waahh, wahh, click, click, ...........but WONT start.

Aging batteries that were not on fully-floating automatic tenders can often get corrosion on their plates, and not deliver enuf cranking amps, due in large part to the long cable runs from the rear of the car.

One new device, "Battery Saver" actually cleans battery plates with pulse-charge floating technology, vs trickle/float. www.batterysaver,com (http://www.batterysaver,com) IS WORTH A LOOK. Educational too.


And regarding the controller Steve M, Partially correct: G 1 Vipers shares a portion of the Jeep/Truck controller.

Good info here.

FIFY on the battery saver link..... www.batterysaver.com

[flyboy1of1]

May have learned something ?? A battery store owner told me --- Batteries made up to 2012 are constructed from virgin lead & last much longer.After 2012 recycled lead is used & do not last as long??? Fact or B.S.????

[ViperGeorge]

It's probably also fair to assume that at least 10% of the replacement batteries served as a $150-disconnect battery terminal and reattach-ECU reset procedure rather than the zero dollar variety.

Good point! I hadn't thought about that. So people replace a perfectly good battery when really all they needed to do was disconnect it long enough to reset the PCM and viola - fixed. Interesting, if true this could explain why so many people assume the battery is actually the culprit since after they replace it all is good.

[512BB]

Batteries provide two functions 1) Voltage/amperage in steady state to start the car, turn the radio on, etc., 2) Capacitance if there is a spike in volt/amperage requirement.

The alternator can provide enough amperage and voltage to run the car and ancillaries (e.g., headlights, radio, etc.) once the car is started and will have to work hard to supply that voltage/amperage if the battery is dead and it also requires charging. Now add in spikes of voltage/amperage needs from sudden acceleration or turning on the AC, headlights, etc. and now the alternator will most probably not be able to handle that spike, in those cases (think of it as brownouts) error codes can be thrown as sensors may go whacky. A voltmeter will only tell you the volts and does not tell you the true health of a battery. It's best to use a voltmeter and a battery tester to make sure that the battery is OK. I have both and will swear by them. The newer the car with all the electronics the bigger issues this could cause.

[ViperGeorge]

Batteries provide two functions 1) Voltage/amperage in steady state to start the car, turn the radio on, etc., 2) Capacitance if there is a spike in volt/amperage requirement.

The alternator can provide enough amperage and voltage to run the car and ancillaries (e.g., headlights, radio, etc.) once the car is started and will have to work hard to supply that voltage/amperage if the battery is dead and it also requires charging. Now add in spikes of voltage/amperage needs from sudden acceleration or turning on the AC, headlights, etc. and now the alternator will most probably not be able to handle that spike, in those cases (think of it as brownouts) error codes can be thrown as sensors may go whacky. A voltmeter will only tell you the volts and does not tell you the true health of a battery. It's best to use a voltmeter and a battery tester to make sure that the battery is OK. I have both and will swear by them. The newer the car with all the electronics the bigger issues this could cause.

My personal experience does not match up with this. As I've said I've run Vipers with batteries that were virtually dead. No issues at all. The alternators in today's cars are more than powerful enough to handle the load IMO.

[Jack B]

George

I am with you 100%. Example, I had my 2lb lithium battery in the car, the terminations were less than stellar. I did an autox event and on the way home and I started having multiple ignition issues, especially a severe hesitation. When I made it home, the problem was that one battery terminal had totally come off the battery. Point is, I ran the car ten miles without a battery.

Since that time I bought the DSE lithium, what a great battery.

[Fatboy 18]

Weak Batteries are normally an issue because many owners do not bother keeping their Vipers on a good Battery Tender.

For many owners these cars are seasonal weekend toys or collector cars, Alarms and open hoods and doors can drain the batteries in the Viper fast.

People do not always realise this, and the result is problems starting and many other related issues caused by PCM Memory.

[Old School]

I've had seasonal/ weekend vehicles for many, many years. I would never consider just starting one without measuring the battery voltage or putting a charger on it the night before. Same goes for my boats.

[Fatboy 18]

I've had seasonal/ weekend vehicles for many, many years. I would never consider just starting one without measuring the battery voltage or putting a charger on it the night before. Same goes for my boats.
Yes, understand what you're saying, the the Viper battery needs to be kept fully charged ALL THE TIME, (not just the night before) ;)

[chris_lee]

Open hoods can drain batteries? I have mine on a Battery Tender but with the hood popped. Is that bad?


Weak Batteries are normally an issue because many owners do not bother keeping their Vipers on a good Battery Tender.

For many owners these cars are seasonal weekend toys or collector cars, Alarms and open hoods and doors can drain the batteries in the Viper fast.

People do not always realise this, and the result is problems starting and many other related issues caused by PCM Memory.

[Jack B]

Open hoods can drain batteries? I have mine on a Battery Tender but with the hood popped. Is that bad?

i will debate that one, I have logged battery current with the car sitting and did not see a parasitic drain for an open hood. However, I will double check. I will throw a meter on this week.