Heavy Burning Or Dealer Didn t Fill All The way

[cubeman]

Left for Crown Rally last week and the day prior I got an oil change at my dealer. Put around a thousand miles and during the rally I checked oil and noticed the stick was dry. I poured a quart in, nothing. Another quart in and got reading on the stick. I then put another half quart to bring it up to safe. I figure if the motor is burning 2.5 quarts in a thousand miles it should have popped with the "Spirited" driving before reaching such crazy consumption levels. My only other theory is the tech poured in around 8.5 quarts and depending on engine temp and misread on the stick they thought it was full.

Going to call the dealer in the AM and "Discuss" looking at the motor, but has anyone seen a Gen V Motor eat that much in such a short period?

[Bruce H.]

What mileage is on it? Really heavy consumption has been noted in rare cases on low mileage cars.

[cubeman]

What mileage is on it? Really heavy consumption has been noted in rare cases on low mileage cars.

28k miles.

[EZ 2B Green]

If you burned that much oil in 1000 miles you would know it, as there would have been lots of soot and smoke. I'll bet it was under filled.

[USAFPILOT]

If it’s burning that much I’d consider it excessive for sure.

[cubeman]

Thanks guys, I'm leaning towards a underfill. Going to request dealer to inspect motor for damage. Before I assume it's going to be a shit show, they've taken care of an incident prior so I go in hoping the same.

[sharmut]

If you're taking it to the same dealer for inspection, it begs the question whether you will have enough confidence with their findings, given they may have underfilled the oil in the first place.

[Scott_in_fl]

If you're taking it to the same dealer for inspection, it begs the question whether you will have enough confidence with their findings, given they may have underfilled the oil in the first place.

Get a sample of the oil that is in there right now and send it off to Blackstone for analysis.

[ViperJon]

With all due respect you're crazy not to have checked the oil after getting it back from the dealer. They're generally totally incompetent and that goes double for any dealer here in the northeast.

[Bill Pemberton]

Good chance the car was not filled to the proper level to start with. It would be interesting to see what the shop ticket reads for number of quarts used? Good luck.

PS- we have seen cars come in over the years , low on oil, only to find out the Dealer/shop did not fill to the proper level per year.

[swexlin]

I lean towards an underfill as well. At 28,000 miles, you would have seen excessive burning prior to now. A silly question, I know, but you checked for leaks? Granted, that would be a lot to leak....

[Mbccenter]

Over the last couple years I have seen dealers fill only to the bottom min mark... Then they say it is normal to burn 1.5-2 quarts in 3k miles. Dealer logic

[cubeman]

Update: Dealer is going to take a look at the motor. I know there's been some concerns about "Will the dealer do the right thing" but they have done me and other viper owners favors on last minute notice and going to bat on warranty claims. I'll have them send me photos of the motor breakdown, if i don't like what they say or do then I'll just get it done independently. I own 6 FCA Product, 3 bought from this dealer alone in the past year.

[13COBRA]

I would bet they underfilled it.

[Jack B]

Just guessing, the A-Team does not change oil and as we know if you read the wrong side of the dipstick, you will end up low. It is not just this car or forum, both Yamaha and Merc outboards have a similar problem.

[Arizona Vipers]

This is the cause of all the gen 5 blown motors imo. I've seen a brand new acr with break in miles at the track, check the oil for him and dip stick was dry. it was 5 quarts low. LOL. It woulda blew up for sure if he went out

[Gen5snake]

What a shit show. I would lose my mind if that happened to me. I would get an oil sample out to Blackstone and do my own research prior to having anyone at a dealer rip into the engine. I would be concerned about contaminants from sloppy part handling/disassembly getting into the engine...but that's just me.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

UNDERFILL..... and dammit you drove HARD for 1000 Rallye miles that way ??

As BillP sez: Dealer Shop Ticket will account for oil added.

As others sed, GET A TEST SAMPLE of the (burned) oil when you refill it properly. TEST IT.


I had mine changed last week.... when I got home I CHECKED IT after it sat a while. Spot On. Lube Rats are the min-wage.....you have a 50% chance of Good/Bad skills/ethics.

[cubeman]

What a shit show. I would lose my mind if that happened to me. I would get an oil sample out to Blackstone and do my own research prior to having anyone at a dealer rip into the engine. I would be concerned about contaminants from sloppy part handling/disassembly getting into the engine...but that's just me.

The goal is to pay for an oil change at the minimum tomorrow and fill a quart jug with old oil and send it to blackstone. While I wait on that the dealer will tear down top of motor to check for any visible damage. If they decline to do so yelling and screaming won't get much done. I get the blackstone report and present it, if they refuse to accept the issue at hand it's lawyer territory regardless with a 20k+ motor.

[Gen5snake]

The goal is to pay for an oil change at the minimum tomorrow and fill a quart jug with old oil and send it to blackstone. While I wait on that the dealer will tear down top of motor to check for any visible damage. If they decline to do so yelling and screaming won't get much done. I get the blackstone report and present it, if they refuse to accept the issue at hand it's lawyer territory regardless with a 20k+ motor.

Perfect. I would think any damage would present itself on the bottom half/crank bearings.

[Dan Cragin]

Have you checked oil consumption since you topped it off? If your have a early car, covered by the engine recall, it should have a extended warranty, 10 years 100,000 powertrain.

[swexlin]

At my dealer, ONLY the Viper tech (he is also the tech for all other SRTs) touches my car - including the oil change. The "lube rats" aren't permitted to.

[cubeman]

Have you checked oil consumption since you topped it off? If your have a early car, covered by the engine recall, it should have a extended warranty, 10 years 100,000 powertrain.

I've since unloaded it off my trailer and had it in the garage, I've got about 40 mile trip to dealer and we'll see whats up.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

BE SURE TO SECURE AND SAVE OIL FILTER. TAKE A PLASTIC BAG FOR YOUR 'FULL' OIL FILTER. Filter Off, and PLOP into baggie. Examine / Test That Too. Take Video.

--------------------------------------------------------


This is a rudimentary test, but if your olfactory skills are good and young, [unlike mine] try this before the oil change:

1) Pull the cold dipstick and get a drop of oil between thumb and fingers. Smear and SMELL!!! Really! Burned /scorched aroma?

2) Then Run the car about 30-60 seconds on cold oil. This stirs up any sediment. Shut off. Pull the dipstick and sniff again.

Might reveal NOTHING, but might give you an idea. Process works great with PS fluid and rear diff oils too.

[cubeman]

BE SURE TO SECURE AND SAVE OIL FILTER. TAKE A PLASTIC BAG FOR YOUR 'FULL' OIL FILTER. Filter Off, and PLOP into baggie. Examine / Test That Too. Take Video.

--------------------------------------------------------


This is a rudimentary test, but if your olfactory skills are good and young, [unlike mine] try this before the oil change:

1) Pull the cold dipstick and get a drop of oil between thumb and fingers. Smear and SMELL!!! Really! Burned /scorched aroma?

2) Then Run the car about 30-60 seconds on cold oil. This stirs up any sediment. Shut off. Pull the dipstick and sniff again.

Might reveal NOTHING, but might give you an idea. Process works great with PS fluid and rear diff oils too.

Thanks JonB, I'll do this tonight. I'm hoping the 3 quartz I had to put in doesn't "water down" any possible damage.

[swexlin]

Best case scenario is that there is no damage.

[Vegaskid]

The goal is to pay for an oil change at the minimum tomorrow and fill a quart jug with old oil and send it to blackstone. While I wait on that the dealer will tear down top of motor to check for any visible damage. If they decline to do so yelling and screaming won't get much done. I get the blackstone report and present it, if they refuse to accept the issue at hand it's lawyer territory regardless with a 20k+ motor.

Sounds like they screwed up and should be held accountable.

Hope it never comes to this, but I don't see how you can prove that any engine damage occurred AFTER the oil change. I could argue that you had damage prior to the oil change.

Very hard to prove IMO.

[blingnoring]

At my dealer, ONLY the Viper tech (he is also the tech for all other SRTs) touches my car - including the oil change. The "lube rats" aren't permitted to.

yes sir same here. one service advisor tried to get in mine to move it about 20 feet to the front and Chris almost pulled him out by his neck. lol

[Viperenvy]

Yes, I am the new guy. Question - Are Vipers supposed to be serviced by a "Viper Tech" who is certified to do everything from tire pressure to oil changes to electronics to engine rebuilds? The "Viper Techs" have tended to be the most experienced. What am I missing?

This is important to me since I am arranging the FIRST dealer "Meet & Greet" with a dealer and their two Viper Techs. What questions do I need to look the "Viper Techs" and the Service Manager in the eyeballs so they know I know they know I know? :p0257:

[13COBRA]

Yes, I am the new guy. Question - Are Vipers supposed to be serviced by a "Viper Tech" who is certified to do everything from tire pressure to oil changes to electronics to engine rebuilds? The "Viper Techs" have tended to be the most experienced. What am I missing?

This is important to me since I am arranging the FIRST dealer "Meet & Greet" with a dealer and their two Viper Techs. What questions do I need to look the "Viper Techs" and the Service Manager in the eyeballs so they know I know they know I know? :p0257:

Wut?

[Viperenvy]

Wut?

Just learned the "Viper Techs" in the later years were for sales certification, not a specialist on the vehicle......

[Meteoro]

that is why I change the oils in all my cars!!

[Vegaskid]

Yes, I am the new guy. Question - Are Vipers supposed to be serviced by a "Viper Tech" who is certified to do everything from tire pressure to oil changes to electronics to engine rebuilds? The "Viper Techs" have tended to be the most experienced. What am I missing?

This is important to me since I am arranging the FIRST dealer "Meet & Greet" with a dealer and their two Viper Techs. What questions do I need to look the "Viper Techs" and the Service Manager in the eyeballs so they know I know they know I know? :p0257:

Anybody can service the car, but you should get somebody who knows WTF they're doing. Typically it's somebody who has significant experience working on these cars. I get my oil changed at VE, not because I can't do it myself; but because I want an expert Morgan (Viper Tech) to take the time to thoroughly look at all parts of my car for anything that could be an issue. He's pointed out things which were easy to remedy but could have become a bigger issue if left unaddressed.

Not sure about a "meet and greet", but just talk to the guys and get a feel of what they know and their experience. You should be able to quickly tell if they're the people you want working on your car.

[cubeman]

Dealer changed oil and gave me 3 samples as they firmly believe 11 quarts were put into the car (Including the tech himself who did this oil change around as well). The oil is a bit/quite burnt but I have what was in the filter in a sample, an engine/oil pan sample, and the filter itself.

I'll be sending both filter sample and engine sample to blackstone and if they do filter breakdown also ill send it. Depending on results is how we move forward. There is no metallic flakes or anything in the oil, which hopefully as long as the filter shows the same is a good sign.

[Jack B]

Dealer changed oil and gave me 3 samples as they firmly believe 11 quarts were put into the car (Including the tech himself who did this oil change around as well). The oil is a bit/quite burnt but I have what was in the filter in a sample, an engine/oil pan sample, and the filter itself.

I'll be sending both filter sample and engine sample to blackstone and if they do filter breakdown also ill send it. Depending on results is how we move forward. There is no metallic flakes or anything in the oil, which hopefully as long as the filter shows the same is a good sign.

You can buy a filter cutter, I think I bought mine on Northern Tool - < $20

[2016ACR]

Just had my oil changed yesterday (Boerne Dodge, TX). Had to delay a week because thier "Viper Tech" was on vacation. He briefed me for about 5 minutes on what he did and found. 5800 miles no issues. Felt the dealer was honest, upfront, and did a good job.

Just needed to add a positive for a dealer.

Vipers ain't cheap but damn they're fun!

[cashcorn]

I would think if your oil pressure & oil temp were in normal range during your rally event you are fine. Lesson learned! Check your oil before and after every time you drive your baby.. good luck

[daveg]

OP, how long have you owned the car (mileage wise)? Have you noticed in the past that after driving 1000 miles you were down 25 courts? I guess what I am asking is, is this the first time you noticed heavy consumption?

[cubeman]

OP, how long have you owned the car (mileage wise)? Have you noticed in the past that after driving 1000 miles you were down 25 courts? I guess what I am asking is, is this the first time you noticed heavy consumption?

I've had the car since 12k miles. Oil consumption at it's worse after a track day would be maybe half a quart inbetween 3k interval oil changes. Never had anything like this in under 1k miles.

[Vegaskid]

Sounds promising...hopefully the oil samples will come back OK....good lesson learned for all...

[Bill Pemberton]

The Techs still had to go to school , in later years, so it was not something that was just handed out verbatim . The problem with service has always been that few Dealers actually engaged in selling Vipers , hence the mechanics who got Certified ended up working on a Viper maybe only once every year or so. Hopefully if the Snake returns, Dodge will have a select number of Dealers , thereby ensuring the Techs see a reasonable number of Vipers and they can keep current and stay skilled on the machine.

Best bet now is to join your local VOA Region, chat with members and find whom the majority find does the best job for them, and it appears you are already heading in that direction.

[Arizona Vipers]

If it makes everyone feel better, I took my AMG GTR for it's first oil change, (it's a dry sump), and on the drive home the dash says it's overfilled and to "reduce oil" so I had to take it back. Probably could have blown the motor just as easy as underfilled if the car didn't warn me (I haven't checked oil level on a car in 20 years except for the Viper)

[Gen5snake]

If it makes everyone feel better, I took my AMG GTR for it's first oil change, (it's a dry sump), and on the drive home the dash says it's overfilled and to "reduce oil" so I had to take it back. Probably could have blown the motor just as easy as underfilled if the car didn't warn me (I haven't checked oil level on a car in 20 years except for the Viper)

I wish I had that problem - The AMG GTR part.

[quickster2]

Check oil frequently and often. All my Company Cars had oil changes at the dealer. I checked them all before leaving the parking. Never had an oil issue but about 75% of the time they never adjusted air pressures front to back on the trucks.

[serpent]

Arizona might be on to something. Dealer might have over filled it.
Again every time I do my oil change I have to lift the car with a jack on the passenger side to help get all the oil out. And without fail I almost fill up the 12qt jug. Always within 1 or 1.5qt from 12.

[IHOP]

I wish I had that problem - The AMG GTR part.

I wish I had most of his "car" problems! Lmao

[IHOP]

I've had the car since 12k miles. Oil consumption at it's worse after a track day would be maybe half a quart inbetween 3k interval oil changes. Never had anything like this in under 1k miles.

Cubeman sorry to hear about this! I will admit even though I take my own oil either to the viper tech direct or to a local private shop I don't check the oil enough under regular driving. At the track both my 13 and my 14's have only burned about a half quart under decently hard track driving. But with 15k on my current 13 GTS it doesn't burn much these days but I still get complacent and don't check it as often as I should. This story should be reminder to everyone that like Cable said WE are the only real warning light for oil level issues in a Viper! I will be checking mine before driving more often. Good luck man I hope there are no issues!

[gfviperman]

Take mine to the local Walmart here.

No lifts just drive over their grease pit.

Seasoned mechanic is the shop foreman.. trust him with anything.

Bring Viper oil filter ... buy exact amount of oil needed .. they empty the containers .. all good.

Last time Mobil had a rebate special ... 10 quarts cost $52 .. $9 to install .. Rebate $24 ....

I hate watching even the best shops trying to put a Viper on a lift.

[sadil]

Unless you have some sort of physical condition, which is totally understandable, why are people still going to the dealer for oil changes.....takes 1 hour to do on your own. Would you give your car to the guy down the street who does oil changes on everything but vipers? That’s as much experience most Dodge dealers would have with a Viper driving in.

[Arizona Vipers]

Unless you have some sort of physical condition, which is totally understandable, why are people still going to the dealer for oil changes.....takes 1 hour to do on your own. Would you give your car to the guy down the street who does oil changes on everything but vipers? That’s as much experience most Dodge dealers would have with a Viper driving in.

I do my own, but honestly it's a pain in the ass for how cheap it is. Most people on here their time is much more valuable. It takes me a lot longer than an hour from start to finish, then you've to dispose of the fluids etc, it's a pain in the ass..

[swexlin]

I do my own, but honestly it's a pain in the ass for how cheap it is. Most people on here their time is much more valuable. It takes me a lot longer than an hour from start to finish, then you've to dispose of the fluids etc, it's a pain in the ass..

This. It doesn't cost that much for my Viper tech to do it. I drive it there (15 minutes) have a coffee and read a magazine in the waiting room, and drive home. No muss, no fuss.

[gfviperman]

The closest Viper tech to us 4.5 hours away.

The two Dodge dealers in town do not want to touch Vipers.

Local Shops take forever just to get them in the air ... unsettling to watch.

Oil changes are adventurous ...

[Jack B]

The closest Viper tech to us 4.5 hours away.

The two Dodge dealers in town do not want to touch Vipers.

Local Shops take forever just to get them in the air ... unsettling to watch.

Oil changes are adventurous ...

If you use a pit like a Lube-Stop, the only trick to a G5 oil change is reading the dipstick. It really is an easy car for an oil change. Even the path to the filter is unobstructed.

[Polo708]

Mine had oil consumption issues too... 2013 GTS with 18k miles. They said the crankcase was bad and swapped that out. Im about 500 miles into this new crankcase so im not positive that this is the fix yet LOL

[swexlin]

The crankcase? How much oil were you using?

Wait, you were the guy losing oil pressure. So it wasn't the sender? Please bring us up to speed.

[Polo708]

The crankcase? How much oil were you using?

Wait, you were the guy losing oil pressure. So it wasn't the sender? Please bring us up to speed.
Still dont know, waiting on oil sample to come back from Mopar reference the R28 recall. Dealer said i was 4 qts low on oil to which i said no way, since I had checked oil levels a few times after getting my oil pressure warnings. They say the problem was the crankcase burning oil somehow. So far so good, but it hasnt really been driven much since getting it back. Im supposed to go back early this week for a follow up look over

[Jack B]

Mine had oil consumption issues too... 2013 GTS with 18k miles. They said the crankcase was bad and swapped that out. Im about 500 miles into this new crankcase so im not positive that this is the fix yet LOL

Get clarification, have them tell you exactly what was replaced, "Crankcase" makes no sense.

[swexlin]

Get clarification, have them tell you exactly what was replaced, "Crankcase" makes no sense.

I agree. And the R28 results shouldn't take long. When mine was done, results came back to the dealer in 5 days.

[cubeman]

Alright, took a little longer then expected but oil tests are back...and they look good. The filter sample also came back the same. Car's been sitting at the dealer unfortantly cause they can't calibrate the driver window after replacing the regulator.

39893

[13COBRA]

Good to hear.

[swexlin]

Brandon, that's good to hear. Hopefully, you'll be OK from here on out.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Sleep Well Tonight!

[swexlin]

But why was the oil low? Was it confirmed that it wasn't filled properly?

[cubeman]

But why was the oil low? Was it confirmed that it wasn't filled properly?

Can't confirm, Dealer sheet shows 11 quarts. Tech says he filled it with 11.

[swexlin]

OK then, it's still a mystery. Please keep us posted on what you see as you drive it more.

[13COBRA]

I would bet you an oil change, the tech didn't put 11 quarts in.