Some help about Vipers from someone who is very very green

[foibles]

Gday everyone. So.... yes, I am new to the forum.

Hello to you all.

I've got some questions I'd like to ask - I do appreciate that I could likely find these with a bit of exhaustive searching...but I'm really hoping that forum members may be kind enough to cut me some slack and be nice!

I ask...as I am looking to purchase an 02 Viper. Part of my purchase decision is based on;

1. When did airbags become standard equipment in the RT/10 model? My understanding is that the 02 model RT certainly rolled off the production line with front and drivers airbag...

2. I am not proposing this I am not endorsing this – but if someone claimed to have a GTS that was modified from a burnt out RT/10 – surely that sort of engineering would be nigh on impossible? The GTS is a hard top correct? …I do not know how someone creates a hard top from a convertible shell?

3. How available and expensive are interior parts (I am guessing the answers are 'hard to find and very expensive' - things such as seats, door cards, steering wheel with airbag, etc etc – I presume that the GTS and RT/10 had the same seats and door cards…maybe even steering wheel etc?

I hope to be less obscure in my future posts!

Thanks,

Foibles

[dave6666]

The Gen 2 came with air bags. The Gen 1 did not. There are probably limited variants of that but in general that applies.

I know of two RT/10s that were converted to GTS style body. Mitch did one of them.

Interior parts are easy to find and not expensive at all. What are you looking for?

[MH60M]

Gen2 GTS and RT/10 have the exact same chassis. The GTS has a roof support loop structure that is bolted in and the front window frame/support is also different from the RT/10.

There are some differences between early gen2 and late gen2 though, that do affect the chassis. The charcoal canister and ABS mounts are different 2000+, as well as additional bracing or beefed up materials on the later gen 2 near the differential and inner tie rod mounts. Interior is also slightly different, the 96-98? Gen2 has smooth dash and airbags, the 99+ has a wrinkle finish. The door cards were also updated a little in 99+ wit a more modern door handle.

[foibles]

ok...so I'm considering the purchase of a 2002 rt10. seller initially referred to it as an srt10... but i ran a vin check..interesting backstory....frightening perhaps.... car had extensive mods done when near new, and almost straight away was stolen and burnt out. for some reason the subsequent buyer decided to refurbish the car in a manner that could be described as unique at best....or unrecommendable at worst. door cards replaced with stainless steel plating. seats are customised from a subaru wrx. dash is also steel plating. no airbags. totally custom. at the same time the owner also decided.... hang onto your hat.... to convert it to gts. meaning what was soft top is now hard top. at least as per photos i have been sent. seems remarkable... I'd swear fuel filler has been relocated? so whilst I'd be in no hurry, I'd ultimately want to buy pretty much a full interior...remarkably either for gts or rt10! but would want seats, carpets, steering wheel, airbags, door cards, etc. the lot!

[Steve-Indy]

I would politely suggest that you keep shopping.

[Bryan Savage]

I would politely suggest that you keep shopping.

I would politely suggest he or she post some pics! That sounds interesting!!

[RedTanRT/10]

I would politely suggest that you keep shopping.

Agree!!

Cheap project Vipers often become very expensive. Since you don’t really know these cars why don’t you post pictures and the price. Folks here can give you a better sense of the needs and costs

[MH60M]

Agree!!

Cheap project Vipers often become very expensive. Since you don’t really know these cars why don’t you post pictures and the price. Folks here can give you a better sense of the needs and costs

Please go buy a $35,000 Gen2 Viper that you can enjoy immediately; rather than a $15K car that will slowly cost you another $40K+ and 3yrs to restore. Don't ask me how I know....:car-smiley-003:

Sound like you could be talking about a VettePer Kit Car...….yikes.

[foibles]

has anyone ever heard of an RT10 to GTS conversion? would it even be doable? I'll get pictures shortly....

[dave6666]

has anyone ever heard of an RT10 to GTS conversion? would it even be doable? I'll get pictures shortly....

Did you read my post?

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I would politely suggest that you keep shopping.

^^^ this

[ACR-ISH]

I would politely suggest he or she post some pics! That sounds interesting!!

Yuuuup.

[foibles]

ok....so I'll be out with this. hopefully this little bit of info (which i hadn't intended to divulge) will put everything in an entirely different light. so here's the story......in the states there are plenty of vipers. they're easy to come by and dont necessarily break the bank.however in my part of the world (Australia) Vipers are few and far between. think two only for sale in australia right now.add to this the fact that we need to have these engineered to make them right hand drive and what starts out as a $40,000 us dollar purchase ends up costing $140,000 Australian by the time you're finished. not an exaggeration. By law we must change the steering to right-hand drive and this alone costs $50,000. Part 2 of the story this car was originally purchased new in the states buy the MD of Dodge UK who shipped it to the UK and then shipped it on to Australia to undergo right hand drive steering conversion he then shipped it back at which time the car was promptly stolen and set on fire. an insurance claim was lodged and some years later an aspiring enthusiast bought the car and decided to attempt the restoration however as you perhaps may now appreciate, parts for a right-hand drive Viper are essentially non-existent and so this person decided to fabricate their own Bespoke interior whilst at the same time doing a GTS conversion. the upshot is the car you see in the photos

[foibles]

So as you by now may appreciate we are not talking about a simple US based project.... if that were the case I could easily understand why attempting such an upgrade would be utterly pointless however we're not talking about a left-hand drive upgrade we're talking about a right-hand drive upgrade. There are no other real alternatives to choose from I can either purchase this vehicle at a significantly reduced price or pay a very hefty Premium for a right hand drive and not previously burnt out example

[foibles]

aaahhh...grrr.. do i need to do the photobucket thing to upload photos? just skipping over to forum faq section to find out

[foibles]

and apologies for poor punctuation and grammar..i am talking to my phone rather than typing. situation demands such a long winded explanation... my arms would die half way through!!

[Fatboy 18]

I know that car.
It was yellow with blue stripes then got burnt to bits.
Last I knew of that car, it was in the UK?
Are you now saying it's back in OZ?

[foibles]

https://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/madsup/20190727_011620_zps32naubc0.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/madsup/media/20190727_011620_zps32naubc0.jpg.html)

[foibles]

https://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/madsup/20190727_011430_zpsng22wasi.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/madsup/media/20190727_011430_zpsng22wasi.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

https://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/madsup/20190727_011354_zpsdxre54di.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/madsup/media/20190727_011354_zpsdxre54di.jpg.html)

[foibles]

https://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/madsup/20190727_011551_zpsgjweu4o8.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/madsup/media/20190727_011551_zpsgjweu4o8.jpg.html)

[foibles]

https://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/madsup/20190727_011412_zpskt1zxy68.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/madsup/media/20190727_011412_zpskt1zxy68.jpg.html)

[foibles]

I know that car.
It was yellow with blue stripes then got burnt to bits.
Last I knew of that car, it was in the UK?
Are you now saying it's back in OZ?

no, I'm certainly not saying that. I'm alluding to the fact that it is a possibility. I've lodged an import approval which in effect can bar others from importing it themselves. being as you're in the uk you'll appreciate that this was likely a cat c....for all i know it was cat b and is only being used for shows etc...a car like this is impractical not because it's a loud 8litre dodge....and not even due to extensive bespoke works.... but the absence of airbags can be a real issue.

[foibles]

so by now i hope you've all got a better appreciation of the situation. but i doubt you're wrapping you're heads around it fully because the presence of rhd steering means that this car is a dud anywhere bar the uk and australia. I'm only partially interested in this.... i have a lotus s4s and a spirit r at cca auctions in leamington I'm busy with this week...so the viper is something of a dalliance. my interest is in the 'doability' of restoring this as close as the dodge gods intended....however the very real concern is....why bother restoring to original
..when it is now a gts not rt10?

[Black Adder]

Tailpipes just behind front wheels and rear bumper. Exhaust bypass?

[foibles]

I'll load up more interior photos when i can...but trust me.... it is about zero percent original. thats why I'm curious to know interior replacement costs.... by the way, car can always be left as it is... but it is unlikely i could register it for road use in aus due to airbags

[Steve-Indy]

If...and that is a BIG IF...you are willing to purchase this car as a race car only, that is a totally different circumstance. I guess I was thrown off by the questions concerning interior parts which I took to mean that you would be attempting to make this a streetable, GTS look-alike.

I have a friend who used to buy totalled Gen III and Gen IV Vipers just so that he could rebuild most of them for racing. He did build a "coupe" from a couple of convertibles. The rest, became parts cars...A useful idea a race cars tend to "collect issues" frequently. :)

Best to you !!

[Fatboy 18]

Tailpipes just behind front wheels and rear bumper. Exhaust bypass?

Yes, James another UK Guy had this on his GTS worked by electric motor flick switch to change direction of gasses

[dave6666]

I've seen worse. Not a fan at all of all the completely incorrect badges like Fangs, Stryker and GTS-R but they are probably just decals.

[Fatboy 18]

so by now i hope you've all got a better appreciation of the situation. but i doubt you're wrapping you're heads around it fully because the presence of rhd steering means that this car is a dud anywhere bar the uk and australia. I'm only partially interested in this.... i have a lotus s4s and a spirit r at cca auctions in leamington I'm busy with this week...so the viper is something of a dalliance. my interest is in the 'doability' of restoring this as close as the dodge gods intended....however the very real concern is....why bother restoring to original
..when it is now a gts not rt10?

It rains a lot in England, that's why it was changed to a GTS with a roof, some say a better looking shape too.

BF (Before being stolen and set on fire)

39346

The damage!!!!

39347

Car was 1st owned by a UK Chrysler dealer Simon Elliot, then Stolen, Salvage title given Category C, rebuilt by John Hazzard in the UK 2004/2005 Painted Copperhead Orange with Black stripes, Car was then sold again to Andrew Asbury UK

Lots of search threads here
https://www.pistonheads.com/search?SearchText=RHD+Viper

[ViperRyan]

I'd say if you're looking for a GTS, then look for a good used GTS. I wouldn't consider this car unless they are practically giving it away, even then I would still think hard on it. The cost to get it back to a "normal" looking street-able GTS, which is what it sounds like you want to do, will end up hurting you in the long run if you ever decide to sell this car. I applaud your efforts on trying to save a Viper and bring it back to where it should be, but think long term.

I would just stick to searching/looking/waiting and finding the right used GTS, may cost you more upfront, but will most likely save you money down the road. Just my two cents!

[lane_viper]

I agree with finding another already street-able GTS, but I have no idea how hard it is to find GTS's in UK/Europe. This might be the best he can find in budget.

Ultimately its your decision.

I will admit, it looks a lot better than I had imagined from the way it was described.

Good Luck

[AviP]

You could always buy totaled Vipers on copart.com but I've no idea about RHD compatibility of parts. Good luck with your project.

[Fatboy 18]

Lots of vipers for sale in Europe, (but not RHD). And quite frankly I would not want RHD.

[MH60M]

https://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/madsup/20190727_011412_zpskt1zxy68.jpg (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/madsup/media/20190727_011412_zpskt1zxy68.jpg.html)

Currently looks like this? Clearly it'll never be a restoration.

GTS conversion "looks" good, hopefully the Steel hoop is installed under the roof/interior. The gas cap is in the correct location for a GTS.

I'd run it! Custom interior and all......drive it like it was stolen!

[Fatboy 18]

Just Google vipers for sale Europe,
Auto Scout 24. Has vipers for sale with some GTS vipers at just €34,000,
But they will all be LHD.

So I can see why the original poster might be interested if he lives in Australia.

[Fatboy 18]

http://www.viperformance.com.au/viper/conversions.php

39368

39369

[foibles]

http://www.viperformance.com.au/viper/conversions.php

39368

39369

hahaha...wow! that is horrendous. (don't misinterpret the laugh by the way...I share the same disdain if not psychopathic hatred of car thieves, other thieves and lowlifes in general - I've had 3 vehicles stolen myself).

but... gee... someone did a pretty thorough job BBQ'ing that thing. fortunately the bonnet (hood?) looks like the runway of a Nimitz Class - fire obviously just ran out of motivation getting all the way to the front of the car...

[foibles]

Currently looks like this? Clearly it'll never be a restoration.

Well....as the saying goes 'nothing is impossible, it is just a matter of money'....my interest was more based around my options;

Option A - I'm pretty much stuck with the car is it 'looks' - I could not register this on our roads. It would need to be either run or sat in a museum for people to chuckle at. On that basis it will eventually decline to zero value...and not before consuming still-needed servicing and maintenance funds

Option B - I do the bare minimum to get this to a roadworthy standard. This may mean something like airbags for instance.

Option C - resto as a GTS

Option D - resto as an RT/10

(seemingly) perversely, I presume it would be cheaper and easier to restore as a GTS, than to what it actually 'is' - and RT/10.

But hopefully this explains why I asked the questions that I did. I feared that the conversation would run off the rails and have very little to do with my initial intent, and sadly this seems to now be the case.

This is why I had enquired about both the availability and cost of parts like;

* Door cards - looks like 600USD should buy 2 new door cards
* Seats (excluding or including rails, motors, etc) - looks like 1500USD will get me both seats
* Steering wheel with dashboard fitted (or any in-vogue aftermarket item as long as it has an airbag) - wheel 300USD airbag 900USD

So those prices look to be upper level - 4000 USD should certainly buy me new or near new door cards, seats and airbag steering wheel. I can worry about the rest later.

etc

[foibles]

I'd run it! Custom interior and all......drive it like it was stolen!

As Harry Callaghan said... 'a man's got to know his limitations'.

Well, I know mine. The rest of y'all might be good enough to track a Viper.....but my prowess falls way, way short of such a vehicle. I can deduce this from experience.

[Viperenvy]

I've seen cars like this - big blower out hood, harpoons, that have friends flying in homemade helicopters, trying to steal gas. The guy with the answers goes by, I think, Max. I have seen him. He looks crazy or even Mad. Look forward to seeing result....

[foibles]

Goose? Is that you Goose?

well....if it gets any further than the keyboard....I'll post away...

[foibles]

Currently looks like this? Clearly it'll never be a restoration.

GTS conversion "looks" good, hopefully the Steel hoop is installed under the roof/interior. The gas cap is in the correct location for a GTS.

I'd run it! Custom interior and all......drive it like it was stolen!

Not exactly a helpful image I have provided here - but I doubt this is what you mean by a steel hoop installed under the roof / interior?

https://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u482/madsup/viper%20hooks_zpsodvprhlj.jpg[/URL]

[Bryan Savage]

To be fair, that's not the worst-looking interior. Say what you want about the the "taste" of the person who did it, but from the photos, it looks like a quality job.

Foibles, looks like just the steering wheel with airbag needs installed. Hopefully the wiring is there. Surely for inspection purposes, the system has to actually work, right?

Why do you need door cards? Is it because you need OEM pull handles?

As far as the hoop, I don't know for sure, but it's likely rollover protection. From the descriptions above, seems the RT/10 would have a separate hoop for each seat, but the GTS had a single hoop that spanned both seats.

Anyone have any photos of it?

[Fatboy 18]

39384
GTS Chassis

Bryan is talking about the hoop behind the seats, look at above pic.

[Fatboy 18]

From the descriptions above, seems the RT/10 would have a separate hoop for each seat, but the GTS had a single hoop that spanned both seats.

Anyone have any photos of it? Hello Bryan, I know the Gen 3 / IV had a separate roll bar for each seat but I don't think the RT/10 did as you have the narrow back window that ran under the single hoop. :)

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

Search This Guy from 2001 info...... Oz's Viper Tech

Dimitriou "Dee"

[MH60M]

As far as the hoop, I don't know for sure, but it's likely rollover protection. From the descriptions above, seems the RT/10 would have a separate hoop for each seat, but the GTS had a single hoop that spanned both seats.

Correct, Gen2 GTS & RT/10 share the same chassis. The GTS has a bolted-in roof support/hoop. The RT/10 has a fiberglass structure to attach the roof and hold the rear window. There are no hoops or driver protection....it is even stated as such, on a square decal in the RT/10 driver's door seem. Hopefully they installed the hoop inside the roof!

[Bryan Savage]

Correct, Gen2 GTS & RT/10 share the same chassis. The GTS has a bolted-in roof support/hoop. The RT/10 has a fiberglass structure to attach the roof and hold the rear window. There are no hoops or driver protection....it is even stated as such, on a square decal in the RT/10 driver's door seem. Hopefully they installed the hoop inside the roof!

HAHAHAH EXOCAGE!!!!

39400

Also, my bad. I was thinking of the separate hoops on the Gen III cars:

39401


As stated above, looks like the GTS, being a coupe, had better OEM roll-over protection than the RT/10.