A little Gen V TA vs Gen IV ACR comparo

[ACRGTR]

So today was the first really nice day since I got my TA so I decided to do a little testing. Put 200 miles on my ACR and my TA.....same roads, same route and they are more different than I originally anticipated. My ACR has the seat lowering kit and some mods so the comparison is not totally fair, but here it goes....The TA is a better car....the ACR a better weapon....the TA has better seats, fit and finish, street ride, and the audio package is excellent, and the look and feel are more modern, BUT.....there are handling traits that are just weird, like going into a turn from full throttle to full braking the TA is all over the place and maintaining a tight line on hard braking with any sort of g-out or chatter bumps is difficult. Any serious mid corner bump unsettles the car and the only time it feels "right" is driving full on out of the turn. The TA has a terrible forward view for someone my height 6'2", but there is plenty of headroom. Daily driving up to about 8/10 the TA is a vast improvement over the previous Gens but the last 2/10 were dominated by the ACR. The ACR has more visibility out of the windshield and a roomier seating area with the lowering kit (not avail for gen V) and a more predictable direct feel everywhere. Through the back roads I was able to go faster with more control in the ACR and the braking, while not as strong, was way more predictable and straight. Flat out the ACR is better for going fast and significantly faster in a straight line with the mods. The taller final drive actually works better through the twisties as you can keep her in third the whole time where the TA was between third and fourth. My ACR feels like it has 75 more HP than my TA and even though the TA has all of the electronic stability systems and TC the ACR feels more planted even with way more power, I think the KW's and Sport Cups might have a play in that. I really do love what the Gen V TA has evolved to and its actually a pretty good car for an aggressive daily driver but it IS NOT a replacement for the Gen IV ACR to an experienced Viper Driver. Hopefully the GenV ACR will squash this, but for now.....for racing...the Gen IV ACR with some mods is still the ticket.

[Voice of Reason]

Thanks for the write up, sounds like a good back to back test. One question, what power mods do you have on the ACR? I see your dyno numbers in your sig so it looks like it's very strong.

[ACRGTR]

I have American Racing Longtubes, No cats, 3" exhaust with 3" in/out SLP Loudmouth Mufflers (They fit absolutely perfect in the Gen IV), and a 3.5" shaped turnout...its a very loud setup, Also have a Mopar Performance PCM, and K&N Typhoon intake...The Dyno runs were done at National Speed, There was a 614hp spike run and two 610hp runs after that. The car made 549hp stock on the same Dyno a few days earlier.

[FLATOUT]

About what I would have expected. Would be interested to see how the TA performs on Sport Cups.

[ViperSmith]

your black TA looks sinister

[V10LEE]

Good post OP,I feel the same with my 010 ACR too, but both my cars are bone stock. Yes the KW coil over suspension is really good. Have you adjusted the rebound, compression settings on your ACR?

[ACRGTR]

Went up one "click" on the compression and two on the rebound to get rid of the slight springiness of the stock settings...I am probably going to lower the car 10mm this spring when I put new Sport Cups on her.

[V10LEE]

Went up one "click" on the compression and two on the rebound to get rid of the slight springiness of the stock settings...I am probably going to lower the car 10mm this spring when I put new Sport Cups on her.

Crank more on the rebound. I have 8 clicks front , and 9 on the rear. You will be impressed how much more it transforms the car. I lowered my car 1 1/2 inch too..

[ACRGTR]

I cant go that low because of the roads I drive on. The front splitter will get killed, but I will try adding more rebound damp. and see what that does. Did you raise the Comp. too that high or just the rebound.

[Nine Ball]

I'm thinking your seat lowering kit in the ACR is contributing to outward visibility. My two coupes seem identical in that regard, no seat lowering. The reduction in outward visibility is strictly the rear hatch window in the Gen V, as it is indeed smaller and that T/A spoiler eats up about 1/3 of the height, too.

[blk_fxstc]

Thank you for this feedback ACRGTR! I was wondering which car was better from someone who has owned both. Sounds like I should hold on to my ACR for the driving I do.

[mnc2886]

Suprised to see someone say the new car was less confidence inspiring than the Gen IV as that was the whole purpose of the Gen V's design. I also agree with your post on the gearing. I wish they had never changed it from the 2010 Viper.

[V10LEE]

I cant go that low because of the roads I drive on. The front splitter will get killed, but I will try adding more rebound damp. and see what that does. Did you raise the Comp. too that high or just the rebound.

No didn't need to adjust the compression. Just the rebound,lowered and did a semi aggressive track alignment to it. It's perfect on Laguna Seca,and on the street..

[ViperSmith]

Suprised to see someone say the new car was less confidence inspiring than the Gen IV as that was the whole purpose of the Gen V's design. I also agree with your post on the gearing. I wish they had never changed it from the 2010 Viper.

To me it says the TA is still not an ACR - it is still a road car that is very track focused. The ACR (if it comes out) will be much more in line with what the Gen IV ACR is.

[VENOM V]

I'm surprised that the TA didn't score higher in your book on back roads based on what I've read, but hey I've driven neither so I don't have any first hand experience. Differences in tires at cooler temps will make a dramatic difference in how a car handles as well. Where do you live and what was the temperature?

I would think that on higher speed corners on the track, the ACR would shine over the TA. I have a big wing and splitter on my Camaro track car and man it's a beast on the track with that aero.

It will be interesting to see if others that own both such as Lee have the same impressions, once the weather warms up and they have appreciable seat time.

[GBS]

I'm sure you look great sitting next to each other in your garage!

[Bill Pemberton]

Would like alot more information on this comparison, as it seems apparent you have done alot of work to the ACR, whereas the TA is virtually stock and has it even had a competition alignment, etc.

I would agree the PSCs have a big advantage over the Corsas, as have to believe that tire is designed to be a mid range DOT tire -- one that is decent on the track, but will shed water and be
easier to drive in all types of weather conditions for the average owner. No complaint, but I know I have done alot of mods to my ACR, yet there is little out for the TA, and some of the things done,
whether alignment , or a tire switch would make a huge difference on the TA , imho. Thanks and appreciat the prep info on both machines.

[mjorgensen]

The people that have switched there GenV to the MCS have also mentioned how much more confidence inspiring the control the MCS setup give the GenV. The ability to maintain tire contact over expansion joints and bumps transforms the feel the car gives in those turns on or off the power button.

[V10LEE]

Power wise both are about the same. It's the KW two way adjustable coil over suspension, the big aero that makes the ACR shine. You put any good coil over shocks, KW, MCS etc on the Gen V. It will make a big difference. Better than the electronic controlled push button controlled shocks that come on the car. My friend's GTR also has the electronic 3 way shock setting ( street, sport, race ). He switched to Ohlin's coil overs,and said it was night and day especially on the track,and he's fast. He won the nationals in Karts..

Tires I spoke to Luke at the Tire Rack,and he said that the new Sport Cup 2 tires coming out will be better than the Corsas that are on our Gen V. He said that the Corsas are better than the current Sport Cups though..

[ACRGTR]

My TA is bone stock, my ACR is not. I knew the comparison would be somewhat unfair, but the ACR really shines when pushed and the TA still feels like a racy street car....not really on the same level. Now some big aero, sportcups, and some KW V3's or better would definitely help the TA out but also take away from its friendly street feel. The ACR was never intended to be a good street car so those compromises were never made and it shows...hell my ACR doesn't even have a radio, not that you could hear it ;) For the record I have been driving the TA as a DD and have taken a 600 mile trip already and it was great......I wouldn't even consider doing that in my ACR. I do really hope someone comes out with a seat lowering kit for the TA so big guys can see out of it. The comparison was done in 70deg weather with sunny skies.

[ACRucrazy]

The TA is a better car....the ACR a better weapon....

If you only said a few words that mattered. This works for me.

[Bill Pemberton]

Is the ACR aligned for the track, and are you still on a stock alignment with the TA? Just wondering as that can make a big difference, also. Thanks for posting all your thoughts. Just wondering, have you tried moving your seat up a notch ( not all the way back ) and then reclining the back? With the pedals out a bit more in the new car, alot of taller guys are moving the seat up a bit and then reclining the back. You probably already tried this, but human nature tells us that the farther back the more room, so just throwing that out there.

[ACRGTR]

Is the ACR aligned for the track, and are you still on a stock alignment with the TA? Just wondering as that can make a big difference, also. Thanks for posting all your thoughts. Just wondering, have you tried moving your seat up a notch ( not all the way back ) and then reclining the back? With the pedals out a bit more in the new car, alot of taller guys are moving the seat up a bit and then reclining the back. You probably already tried this, but human nature tells us that the farther back the more room, so just throwing that out there.

I already tried everything with the seat but when I go forward my legs are all jacked up against the dash and I cant make big steering corrections because my knees are in the way. The way my seat is now is comfortable but I have to crouch down to see any uphill curves or traffic signals, but on a positive note the sun is never in my eyes. The ACR has slightly adjusted suspension but no "track alignment" and the TA is showroom, bone stock....nothing changed from delivery. I will be messing with the ACR suspension this spring but had no intentions of modding my TA at all. I'm just driving the TA till the GenV ACR comes out, if that never happens I may decide to mod the TA at that time.

[V10LEE]

The ACR was never intended to be a good street car so those compromises were never made and it shows..

You only did two clicks/turns on the rebound. Do more its transforms the car. Making the car ,suspension more compliant and less like jumping on a pogo stick. I enjoy driving my ACR on the street.The seats are more comfortable compared to the leather wrapped Sabelt seats that are in my Gen V. They have more cushion all around..

[ACRGTR]

You only did two clicks/turns on the rebound. Do more its transforms the car. Making the car ,suspension more compliant and less like jumping on a pogo stick. I enjoy driving my ACR on the street.The seats are more comfortable compared to the leather wrapped Sabelt seats that are in my Gen V. They have more cushion all around..
I agree the Gen IV seats are more cushiony but the lower back support is not as good and I don't fit too well into the seat bottom as I am "bigger than most". I will add more rebound the second I get a chance and I am going to try a 1" drop and see if I have enough clearance to get around. I will probably get that done while I am getting the car re-inspected(not easy where I live) and I will post back in a few weeks with the results.

[Late Apex]

ACRGTR, great comparison and I agree with some of this as I sat in one at Daytona for awhile and noticed the interior seemed much more confining and the headroom was very tight compared to my 09 ACR, and that was without a helmet!

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I really appreciate your comparo, and the fact that it 'inspired' so many other hands-on, real-world inputs. GREAT THREAD.

[Especially noted is the 'bigger than most' XL-2X comments from another 6'2 '+ 12-pack.]

DO add some rebound to the ACR...

[Policy Limits]

I wanna see a gen IV ACR v. Gen V ACR comparison

[FLATOUT]

I wanna see a gen IV ACR v. Gen V ACR comparison

I think we would all love to see that as well :D I'm sure once it comes out if the pricing isn't crazy I willbe trying to figure out a way to get one.

[ACRucrazy]

I think we would all love to see that as well :D I'm sure once it comes out if the pricing isn't crazy I willbe trying to figure out a way to get one.

That's what I am afraid of... I hope it kicks so much ass, but afraid it will do so I will be tempted to give up my IV ACR... which I don't want to do... and most likely won't be able to have both.. LOL

[gutterworks129]

Good write up Jeff, maybe we can do some auto-cross or go to VIR soon.

[apacheviper]

Hi,

Looks like you guys should be able to help me. I'm looking to swap out my stock gen3 for a stock gen5. I'm to believe the T56 transmission currently attached to the gen3 should be able to handle the extra bhp and torque when paired to the gen5, although a clutch upgrade may be useful.

Am I right in thinking the the engine mounts should all be the same?
And that the gen5 (from a 6 speed manual car - but unfortunately didn't come with the tr-6060 transmission) will pair to the T56 OK?

And any assistance in what other jobs I'll need to do would be much appreciated. Like - I believe the gen5 throttle is fly by wire - so I guess I'll need to get.
I only have the wiring loom and ECU from the gen3 - will the sensors and other connections just fit?
With the gen3 ECU start the engine? I can't damage the engine running the old ECU can I?

I'll leave it at that for now - any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[ACRucrazy]

Hi,

Looks like you guys should be able to help me. I'm looking to swap out my stock gen3 for a stock gen5. I'm to believe the T56 transmission currently attached to the gen3 should be able to handle the extra bhp and torque when paired to the gen5, although a clutch upgrade may be useful.

Am I right in thinking the the engine mounts should all be the same?
And that the gen5 (from a 6 speed manual car - but unfortunately didn't come with the tr-6060 transmission) will pair to the T56 OK?

And any assistance in what other jobs I'll need to do would be much appreciated. Like - I believe the gen5 throttle is fly by wire - so I guess I'll need to get.
I only have the wiring loom and ECU from the gen3 - will the sensors and other connections just fit?
With the gen3 ECU start the engine? I can't damage the engine running the old ECU can I?

I'll leave it at that for now - any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

You would need to swap out the Gen IV PCM/engine harness/mounts/ radiator fans/ pedal assembly / dash harness etc. Not a cheap or easy option. The Gen 3 stuff will be no good with the IV/V engine.

Your best bet is to do a Gen IV head swap/Mopar Kit and keep the cable throttle body.

[serpent]

Wow, didnt realize this thread was bumped from 3 years ago. lol

What I'd like to see is IV ACR vs TA 2.0 and IV ACR vs V ACR.

I wish magazine would test the TA 2.0 and find out how much quicker it is around a track compared to the TA 1.0.

[donk_316]

Nothing is faster than a TA 1....

NOTHING

[ViperJon]

Wow, didnt realize this thread was bumped from 3 years ago. lol
What I'd like to see is IV ACR vs TA 2.0 and IV ACR vs V ACR.


The Laguna Seca times pretty much tell the story on these comparo's. 1:28 (Gen V ACR) to 1:33 (2014 TA or Gen IV ACR) is forever.....
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

[SilverACR]

The Laguna Seca times pretty much tell the story on these comparo's. 1:28 (Gen V ACR) to 1:33 (2014 TA or Gen IV ACR) is forever.....
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988
Viperjon
Based on the year that had to be the TA 1.0 and not the 2.0 which has more aero and do you know if they ran the street ACR or the ACRX? I would assume they compare road cars so it should have been the ACR right? Just curious.

[ViperJon]

Viperjon
Based on the year that had to be the TA 1.0 and not the 2.0 which has more aero and do you know if they ran the street ACR or the ACRX? I would assume they compare road cars so it should have been the ACR right? Just curious.

Those times are the TA1 and a stock Gen IV ACR. (This is where the 1:33 edition Gen IV ACR moniker came from).
I've never seen any times for a TA2 vs TA1 anywhere probably due to so few TA2 sold comparatively.

[SilverACR]

Those times are the TA1 and a stock Gen IV ACR. (This is where the 1:33 edition Gen IV ACR moniker came from).
I've never seen any times for a TA2 vs TA1 anywhere probably due to so few TA2 sold comparatively.

Got it! I would think the TA2 would fall somewhere in between the 5ACR and the 5TA. It would be an interesting comparison if someone has it. Thanks

[dethred]

Here's a Gen 5 vs. GEN 4 ACR comparison in a straight line, however irrelevant it may be. Gen 4 has full header and exhaust,, tune, and intake. Gen 5 has headers and arrow pcm. :-)

https://youtu.be/94dqVdyHgJg

[SilverACR]

Here's a Gen 5 vs. GEN 4 ACR comparison in a straight line, however irrelevant it may be. Gen 4 has full header and exhaust,, tune, and intake. Gen 5 has headers and arrow pcm. :-)

https://youtu.be/94dqVdyHgJg
Irrelevant maybe... fun to watch absolutely! To cold to drive mine here in Iowa so this is all I got��LOL

[ViperSRT]

So is the bottom line a TA 2.0 is equal to or quicker than a Gen 4 ACR (obviously around a track)?