Removing the ROE setup on my car

[Charged01ACR]

Well I have decided to remove the ROE supercharger setup on my car. Been having a few minor issues and we have it pinpointed to be injector issues with cyl 3 and 9. One injector is spraying too much and one is hardly spraying. Talked with ROE racing and said that it's most likely the outdated software and obsolete piggyback control box that's giving me the issue. Rather than spending money on new injectors and still having issues with the current setup I have decided to just pull the system. Looks super cool under the hood but I bought the car with intentions of removing the setup anyway. I'm going to sleep on it one more night but I think my mind is made up. The swap should start next week. Ready to get the ole girl back on her feet.

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[qc-teky]

Didn't know there was a Roed gen2 in Memphis. PM sent.

[dave6666]

I just pulled a Roe off a car. We were using ID1000 injectors vs. the Deka 80s they kits come with. IDs are quite pricey but Dan Lesser tuned the car and preferred the IDs over the Dekas.

Is that tubing off of your intake tubes the vacuum control for the bypass valve? If so that is a weird setup. That should come directly off the manifold typically.

[uvbnbit]

where y'all W TN guys been the last 15 years? OP, are you TB?

[qc-teky]

where y'all W TN guys been the last 15 years? OP, are you TB?

Mostly at work. Really want to do the dragon meet this year, but I've still got a couple things to do on the car. Getting to it can be a challange for me.

[Charged01ACR]

You have reply back qc-teky :)

And im not sure what tube you mean Dave but everything is exactly how it came from ROE. This setup is the first early setups I believe. I know they had some revisions over the years

[Charged01ACR]

uvbnbit I bought the car from TB! Known him forever

[dave6666]

And im not sure what tube you mean Dave but everything is exactly how it came from ROE. This setup is the first early setups I believe. I know they had some revisions over the years

Do the 2 hoses circled in red connect to the thing circled in green? If so, that is unusual. Not denying Sean designed it that way, but I've seen plenty of Roe cars and never that. But then again, maybe they aren't connected to each other lol.

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[ellowviper]

Do the 2 hoses circled in red connect to the thing circled in green? If so, that is unusual. Not denying Sean designed it that way, but I've seen plenty of Roe cars and never that. But then again, maybe they aren't connected to each other lol.ATTACH=CONFIG]37483[/ATTACH]
W/M lines in the RED circles. Green circle is the bybass valve but I can't see the vacuum line in the pic. SHould terminate on a barbed fitting an inch or so away in the manifold base.

[Charged01ACR]

Do the 2 hoses circled in red connect to the thing circled in green? If so, that is unusual. Not denying Sean designed it that way, but I've seen plenty of Roe cars and never that. But then again, maybe they aren't connected to each other lol.

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Ohhhhh! The 2 lines coming off the sides of the intake tube circled in red is where the previous owner had the water menthol injection nozzles mounted. But they do not go to the tube that's circled in green

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[dave6666]

OK got it. When Dan and I were discussing how to set my car up he was somewhat adamant that W/M was a poor substitute for a properly built platform and that doing so - W/M - was just asking for trouble. So I went other routes per his advise.

*properly built being defined as crank / rods / pistons / heads supporting the requested hp without a "crutch" i.e. meth.

I would say most people don't use it based on how may Roes I've seen and no one has ever had W/M. But that's just my experience.

Sooooooooooooooooo, carry on, meth'ers.

[Charged01ACR]

Yeah the W/M is definitely coming off. The swap back to stock will commence next week

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[99RT10]

OK got it. When Dan and I were discussing how to set my car up he was somewhat adamant that W/M was a poor substitute for a properly built platform and that doing so - W/M - was just asking for trouble. So I went other routes per his advise.

*properly built being defined as crank / rods / pistons / heads supporting the requested hp without a "crutch" i.e. meth.

I would say most people don't use it based on how may Roes I've seen and no one has ever had W/M. But that's just my experience.

Sooooooooooooooooo, carry on, meth'ers.

That's just idiotic. With these SC, the W/M is a huge safety factor and will give extra power even if you don't specifically tune for it. Leaving 50-80 HP on the table without and an increased chance to detonate in higher temps under boost. These SC run hot, W/m for safety

[Red Snake]

I’ve been running w/m on mine for 11 years, used for cooling effect only. Not pulling any extra timing and not putting anything at risk if the w/m should fail. However, FWIW in 11 years there’s never been a single hiccup with the w/m. It still works just like it did in the day it was installed.

[ellowviper]

Love W/M...for many more reasons than a chemical intercooler....mostly for managing combustion temps and keeping the blower cool as its doing it magic. Heck, Kenny Bell even puts a W/M nozzle bung in the top of its new blower.

[dave6666]

That's just idiotic.

Dan Lesser is not an idiot. I trusted him to make that call about not using meth. My blower also never ran hot i.e. heat soaked after a pull. But that's just my experience with the tuning that Dan developed for me. Individual results will always vary tho. I do get that.

[99RT10]

Dan Lesser is not an idiot. I trusted him to make that call about not using meth. My blower also never ran hot i.e. heat soaked after a pull. But that's just my experience with the tuning that Dan developed for me. Individual results will always vary tho. I do get that.

I didn't say he was an idiot, just his premise was idiotic........... And it is.

[river rat]

If it was any color other than yelllow, I'd ask how much.

[Charged01ACR]

If it was any color other than yelllow, I'd ask how much.

Can easily be painted to match or powder coated :)

[RT SERPENT]

Built right, H20/Meth too. .....loving it since 2007 :)
:dude3::dude3:

[dave6666]

If it was any color other than yelllow, I'd ask how much.

Oh, you want a red one?

[river rat]

Oh, you want a red one?

Of course, everyone knows red is faster.

[dave6666]

Of course, everyone knows red is faster.

^^^ dude gets it

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[Charged01ACR]

If interested feel free to PM me.

[ellowviper]

14k miles. About time for the water pump to go....

[BK99GTS]

I am late to the thread, but I have a new generation ROE kit and have been very pleased. They spent a ton of time on the intake which was the biggest issue with the original versions. The supercharger dumped straight into to the plenum and resulting in different fueling needs for each cylinder. This is what required the tag-along management system which as I understand was difficult to tune a bit temperamental. Their current generation system provides individual runners to each cylinder that have been flow matched to ensure consistent fueling. As a result, the factory ECM is can handle everything and tunes can be loaded with an SCT hand held. As far as WM injection, it's all about boost level. For the '01, I am guessing that you wouldn't be running more than 5 or 6 psi of boost which wouldn't necessarily require WM. That said there is a definite benefit in terms of safety. Unless you are just wanting to extract the cash for something else, I would highly recommend talking to ROE about upgrading to the current generation intake and get it tuned. Just my $.02

[Charged01ACR]

I am late to the thread, but I have a new generation ROE kit and have been very pleased. They spent a ton of time on the intake which was the biggest issue with the original versions. The supercharger dumped straight into to the plenum and resulting in different fueling needs for each cylinder. This is what required the tag-along management system which as I understand was difficult to tune a bit temperamental. Their current generation system provides individual runners to each cylinder that have been flow matched to ensure consistent fueling. As a result, the factory ECM is can handle everything and tunes can be loaded with an SCT hand held. As far as WM injection, it's all about boost level. For the '01, I am guessing that you wouldn't be running more than 5 or 6 psi of boost which wouldn't necessarily require WM. That said there is a definite benefit in terms of safety. Unless you are just wanting to extract the cash for something else, I would highly recommend talking to ROE about upgrading to the current generation intake and get it tuned. Just my $.02

Thanks for your feedback BK99GTS! I have thought about just keeping the ROE on there but I haven't looked into the 'updated intake' you speak of. Are you talking about the intake tubes or the intake manifold under the blower?

[dave6666]

I've been running 8# of boost in my creampuff '01 for 8 years. Dan Lesser has scolded all the tuners that can't tune that without blowing it up.

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Are you talking about the intake tubes or the intake manifold under the blower?

He's talking about the intake manifold not the intake tubes.

[Charged01ACR]

I've been running 8# of boost in my creampuff '01 for 8 years. Dan Lesser has scolded all the tuners that can't tune that without blowing it up.

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He's talking about the intake manifold not the intake tubes.

Cool! I figured so but wasn't sure. I'm going to speak with ROE again and see what an updated intake manifold will cost me.

[Charged01ACR]

Well looks like ROE has an updated manifold kit just for my outdated VEC setup.

https://www.roeracing.com/product/gen-2-supercharger-intake-w-vec-2-3-trade-in-promotion/

Very tempting :icon_devil::icon_devil:

[BK99GTS]

Worth a try and is an incremental cost vs a complete do over. I think you would be able to get most of your money out of it if you wanted to take it off and sell it down the line. Agree with Dave above regarding the necessity of WM for a modest boost level. You already have it though, so a sunk cost. The equivalent of taking off a mechanical intercooler that was already installed. You could do it, but why? You might also want to give Justin at JMB a call for his cold air intake setup. It does a great job of leveraging the NACA and lower air dam as a true cold air system if you get the extended version. He also welds bungs in for WM injectors if you are going to keep using it. See the link.

https://jmbperformance.com/product/viper-cold-air-setup-4/

[Charged01ACR]

Well the teardown has commenced! Should be back on her feet by the weekend :)

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[ellowviper]

I've seen pics of the "improved" manifold design. Still missed the issue since it wasn't an issue of needing individual runners to even out air starvation under vacuum in the old design. Its ALWAYS been about available air volume in the plenum during vacuum/cruise. All this new design does is take the available air volume under vacuum and squeeze it into 8 small runners, relying on the blower to compensate for the fact that there isn't a volumetrically sized plenum for each cylinder to draw from. My modification was the ONLY solution (right-sizing plenum volumetric efficiencies) to that issue. The original manifold design just needed more VOLUME, not runners that actually decrease manifold volume. You have to remember that under boost, ALL AIRFLOW ISSUES go away regardless of manifold design. All cylinders are physically equalized under boost and the best way to ensure that happens is NOT with individual runners machined into the manifold but to allow air to reach the intake runner from an open plenum. Look at the Hellcat plenum, the Mustang plenum, the Corvette plenum, and so forth. None use individual runners and ALL have an open plenum designs. This "new" design was meant to ONLY address the issue with the rear cylinders being starved from inadequate airflow during vacuum (due to too small of manifold volume for an 8.0 ltr engine). It does absolutely nothing to improve airflow under boost; the older design did quite well. So funny to read all the misperceptions on what this manifold tries to fix.

[BK99GTS]

Not sure what your modification was to resolve inatake volume but it would appear that you agree there was fueling problem with the original system. As far as misperceptions, not sure what you are referring to that is relevant to this conversation. The new intake addresses the issue (perhaps not to your liking) and allows for tuning with the factory ECM. These were the issues that the OP was discussing to begin with. Also think ROE spent more time on the new intake flow testing with VE in mind than you are giving them credit. That said, this is just one guy's opinion. I own and have experience with the new system, but my only experience with the previous generation was though affiliates that described the tuning/operation with the VEC as temperamental.

[Viper Specialty]

I didn't say he was an idiot, just his premise was idiotic........... And it is.

Your premise is idiotic, and incomplete.

W/M as used in this market is a JOKE. I have seen countless engines with internal corrosion issues due to W/M. I have seen countless engines that end up with issues because someone used W/M as the intercooling method during tuning, and then when the W/M system fails, the entire platform detonates itself to pieces. As the ambient conditions change, W/M drastically alters the required fueling, more than the OE controller was ever designed to accommodate. The Viper market has turned a "safety system" into a fucking crutch of intercooling, and it makes me sick. W/M creates FAR more problems than it solves in normal circumstances as seen in *THIS* market.

I prefer to properly build the setup, and tune without W/M. If you then want to roll the dice and add W/M on top to create a safety margin and drop IAT's, then have at it. I see no issue there, provided you use a QUALITY SYSTEM that actually has injectors and mapping, not the happy-horse-shit that everyone in the Viper market uses. At least if the more-than-likely piece of junk system fails, the engine is still within its original safe tuning strategy. The entire idea behind W/M has been perverted, and the control systems utilized are just as big of a joke. If the system does not use a high pressure pump, timed injectors, have full mapping, and fault finding/flow monitoring/bottle level warning, it has no place in a properly built engine bay... certainly nothing I will build.

Next time you try to equivocate my name with an "idiotic premise", you should probably just accept the fact that you don't have all the facts up front, and resist the urge to say something stupid.

Enjoy your rust bucket.

[99RT10]

Your premise is idiotic, and incomplete.

W/M as used in this market is a JOKE. I have seen countless engines with internal corrosion issues due to W/M. I have seen countless engines that end up with issues because someone used W/M as the intercooling method during tuning, and then when the W/M system fails, the entire platform detonates itself to pieces. As the ambient conditions change, W/M drastically alters the required fueling, more than the OE controller was ever designed to accommodate. The Viper market has turned a "safety system" into a fucking crutch of intercooling, and it makes me sick. W/M creates FAR more problems than it solves in normal circumstances as seen in *THIS* market.

I prefer to properly build the setup, and tune without W/M. If you then want to roll the dice and add W/M on top to create a safety margin and drop IAT's, then have at it. I see no issue there, provided you use a QUALITY SYSTEM that actually has injectors and mapping, not the happy-horse-shit that everyone in the Viper market uses. At least if the more-than-likely piece of junk system fails, the engine is still within its original safe tuning strategy. The entire idea behind W/M has been perverted, and the control systems utilized are just as big of a joke. If the system does not use a high pressure pump, timed injectors, have full mapping, and fault finding/flow monitoring/bottle level warning, it has no place in a properly built engine bay... certainly nothing I will build.

Next time you try to equivocate my name with an "idiotic premise", you should probably just accept the fact that you don't have all the facts up front, and resist the urge to say something stupid.

Enjoy your rust bucket.

There were so many more problems with that example and you're putting it all on water/meth. Nice

I have over 20K miles on my Roe and it look nothing like that. In fact the heads looked perfect, the cyl looked perfect. If it is done right, there is no issues. If you are using it to make max power, yes it can be detrimental if the pump fails, but the Roe develops so much heat that after it gets warmed up and starts getting hot, the tune is not accurate enough to change for the heat increase which is why you have not been able to tune a Roe properly.

With the use of water/meth, it keeps it relatively stable because it does cool efficiently and the tune is more stable. Will you run into issues if the pump fails, absolutely. That is why you should monitor the levels and pressure under boost(when it should only be pushing fluid) just like you monitor your oil pressure. Will your engine hit detonation if the W/M pump fail? Yes if your are on the ragged edge, but if tuned conservatively, no and you be able to monitor if there is an issue. that rotor was sucking so much blow-by the engine was in need of a rebuild before the roe was installed.

NEXT!!!

[dave6666]

My modification was the ONLY solution (right-sizing plenum volumetric efficiencies) to that issue.

I know you've moved on to your own manifold design now, but one of the 4 that had the plenum mod - mine - is now off the car and close to entering the free market. And to think, Mike's new friend Dan Lesser tuned it.


NEXT!!!

Pick me!



I love car forums.

[ICPREY]

I know you've moved on to your own manifold design now, but one of the 4 that had the plenum mod - mine - is now off the car and close to entering the free market.

I would be interested in it when it does, please PM me.

[Charged01ACR]

A little heated debate going on here :icon_devil:

Got her all back together. She's running great. Stock rock

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[SilverACR]

Looks good and enjoy! You now need to change you forum name;)

[Charged01ACR]

Looks good and enjoy! You now need to change you forum name;)

Haahaha I know right? :p

[Charged01ACR]

Got everything all cleaned up and polished. Now time to find it a home :)

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[99RT10]

Do you mind taking a picture of the back of the intake Y and inside the SC? I am guessing yours looks as clean as mine did..................... For the new buyer................... :D

[Charged01ACR]

Do you mind taking a picture of the back of the intake Y and inside the SC? I am guessing yours looks as clean as mine did..................... For the new buyer................... :D

Will post some more pics of the rear section shortly

[Charged01ACR]

Here are some more pics showing the rear Y and inside the supercharger. Tried to get inside the charger the best I could with the camera

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[Charged01ACR]

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[Charged01ACR]

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[99RT10]

Damn! That is AMAZINGLY clean!!!! Looks nothing like the one above....................... Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. GLWS

:lol2::lol2:

[dave6666]

Damn! That is AMAZINGLY clean!!!! Looks nothing like the one above

Probably tuned by Dan Lesser.




BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahahahahahahahaha lolol.




























Too soon?

[Viper Specialty]

Damn! That is AMAZINGLY clean!!!! Looks nothing like the one above....................... Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. GLWS

:lol2::lol2:

A couple of examples versus the guy who builds the engines for a living. Now that's a great sample pool!

Keep it up Mike. Apparently you CAN argue with common sense, physics, and chemistry.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happens when you have water and methanol, both of which are corrosive, in the presence of materials........ which are prone to corrosion. Especially if you have a nozzle issue, a vacuum condition [dirty filters], colt climates, or any other number of things that would contribute to the mixture sitting around in the manifold.

Hell, given how many W/M pump and driver failures I have seen... it wouldn't surprise me if your meth tank is actually evaporating rather than going into the engine... it would sure explain the cleanliness you claim to see! :smilielol:

[99RT10]

A couple of examples versus the guy who builds the engines for a living. Now that's a great sample pool!

Keep it up Mike. Apparently you CAN argue with common sense, physics, and chemistry.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happens when you have water and methanol, both of which are corrosive, in the presence of materials........ which are prone to corrosion. Especially if you have a nozzle issue, a vacuum condition [dirty filters], colt climates, or any other number of things that would contribute to the mixture sitting around in the manifold.

Hell, given how many W/M pump and driver failures I have seen... it wouldn't surprise me if your meth tank is actually evaporating rather than going into the engine... it would sure explain the cleanliness you claim to see! :smilielol:

When you get situated in FL, and get a Gen 2 H/c car built, I'll bring my rust-bucket down. We'll line them up, see what happens..... :D

Orlando Raceway? :D

[dave6666]

BBQ time!

[ellowviper]

Dan will cringe when he sees my bastard set-up.....

[99RT10]

Dan will cringe when he sees my bastard set-up.....

I think we should make this a Viper Get together. You peeps in FL have a large group. I think it would be fun and I would love to see your setup run Sir!!

[Charged01ACR]

Will trade supercharger setup for or towards a wheel/tire setup ( CCW, HRE, factory silver ACR BBS wheels )

-Keith

[uvbnbit]

message 99RT10 above, He's got some sets of wheels.

[TP_ GTS]

Will trade supercharger setup for or towards a wheel/tire setup ( CCW, HRE, factory silver ACR BBS wheels )

-Keith


I'm actually surprised your ROE has not sold by now.

[Charged01ACR]

I'm actually surprised your ROE has not sold by now.

I think it's because the intake tubes are painted yellow :smilielol:

[dave6666]

I'm actually surprised your ROE has not sold by now.

My opinion. Priced too high for quick sale. A 2.4 Roe is old school math now. Plenty of higher output options for slightly more cash then the OP has listed his Roe for. Especially one that does not appear to have any additional items or performance mods.

If wanting to move that one quickly I would price it at $4500. I'll price mine slightly above that when I get to it but it has more. But at $5800 you're getting close to a new Procharger or new Paxton.

Just my 0.02. I'm sure people will be along shortly to say how wrong I am, but yet the evidence that I use supporting my statement is glaring in this thread lol.

[Charged01ACR]

My opinion. Priced too high for quick sale. A 2.4 Roe is old school math now. Plenty of higher output options for slightly more cash then the OP has listed his Roe for. Especially one that does not appear to have any additional items or performance mods.

If wanting to move that one quickly I would price it at $4500. I'll price mine slightly above that when I get to it but it has more. But at $5800 you're getting close to a new Procharger or new Paxton.

Just my 0.02. I'm sure people will be along shortly to say how wrong I am, but yet the evidence that I use supporting my statement is glaring in this thread lol.

I've heard many opinions on what some say its worth and even had ROE tell me $5-6k 'as is' so figured I'd start somewhere. I'm open to a best offer and im very easy to work with. I'd be glad to make someone a deal on the setup :)

[ICPREY]

I've heard many opinions on what some say its worth and even had ROE tell me $5-6k 'as is' so figured I'd start somewhere. I'm open to a best offer and im very easy to work with. I'd be glad to make someone a deal on the setup :)

Put it on the VOA/Viper classified facebook page, some don't do forums.

[Fatboy 18]

I have always liked the Idea of getting one for my car but.....I do a lot of touring in Europe and the gas is expensive over here so it's one of the reasons I have not bothered.

I also love the look of the Gen 2 Intake manifold when you open the hood. :)

Also you have to remember that Vipers are a limited market, FB and eBay are worth trying :) GLWS

[groundshark]

Roe set-up still for sale ??
I'm ready to go .... $ in hand !!
PM sent as well

[Charged01ACR]

Roe set-up still for sale ??
I'm ready to go .... $ in hand !!
PM sent as well

Yes it's still available! Or it was. It's now :Canada: bound! Thanks again groundshark

[dave6666]

Congrats. Now we're back to one for sale.

[groundshark]

No problem brother .... nice quick sale
🤙🤙
Scott @ ROE is sending me some upgraded parts injectors, lower plenum etc...
I’ll slap it on next week sometime and hit the track for some fun
BOOM was that a V10 exploding or you just glad to see me 🚑

[groundshark]

Roe for SALE ... VipeR is SOLD
2.4L first generation with the VEC.
ALSO intake manifold upgrade kit included :
(plenum/sct flash device/ 60# injectors)
You will require a 2 bar map sensor !!
5000.00 USD + shipping
PM me if your interested

Cheers !!

[groundshark]

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