2003 vs 2005

[sambo32]

Looking to purchase another viper. What would be preferred, a 2003 with low miles, or a 2005 with higher miles.
Thank you

[Steve-Indy]

2005 has a few improvements over 2003...in other words, most of the "new model growing pains" have been sorted and improvements made.

More important (at least to me) is condition (determined by full inspection by an accomplished Viper Tech), provenance, use history, and maintenance history. Without more info on above and actual mileage...hard to give you an informed answer.

[sambo32]

There is a yellow 2005 with 4,700k miles on the auction site now, I think they want $49,000 is that a good or fair price. I prefer red, but the yellow is not that bad looking.

[Steve-Indy]

While I usually stay out of price discussions, I would note that yellow was quite popular that year...and, all else being equal, sold on the secondary market for a little more money than the other colors as time passed. My hip shot opinion is high for an auction, possibly worth the money if being sold by a trusted dealer...such as John Gastman or Bill Pemberton AFTER it had been put through their respective shops...thus no surprises.

Disclaimer: I really don't follow auctions or sales figures.

[Whiskey]

2005 has a few improvements over 2003...in other words, most of the "new model growing pains" have been sorted and improvements made.

More important (at least to me) is condition (determined by full inspection by an accomplished Viper Tech), provenance, use history, and maintenance history. Without more info on above and actual mileage...hard to give you an informed answer.

What specifically are the differences?

[ViperSRT]

Some changes went for the worse as well such as smaller crank damper fastener and connecting rods so intended usage matters.

[Steve-Indy]

The crank damper bolt "went small" on 2004's...corrected in 05. There were rumored to be a few 05 Vipers with the smaller bolt, but I have never seen one.

About 1300 of the 03's had the cooling module recall...that could cause a steering rack failure. Some of the Jan 2003 builds had only two of the three angle valve grinds. (VIN list was posted on VCA site) which caused lower HP. By 05, with some bearing failures noted in 03 and 04...attention turned to oiling. One change as I remember was a change in the groove if the main bearing for 05...at some point there were changes in pan as well.(memory a little vague here so others need to fill in).
Factory oil fill became Mobil 1 0W-40 for 05. By the way, factory fill for P/S became ATF+4 in 04.

03 and 04 Vipers needed airbag module change.

If I think of more, I will add later.

P.S. read this thread...especially the post by Viper Specialty (Dan Lesser) as he discussed the oil groove in the main bearings...plus more:

https://www.viperclub.org/vca/threads/first-oil-change.595297/

[sambo32]

Thank you for this information.

[Steve-Indy]

Sorry that I really cannot offer more facts/dates on oil pan solutions and model year of said changes.

My gut feeling is...with your Viper experience, you will pick a good car. Go for what YOU like !!

[Stealth78]

$49,000 would be a serious premium for that car. I think $45K-$46K would be at the top of the range. You're starting to get into 06 coupe territory at that price range.

[parabs]

Viper Quarterly 18 has the Gen 3 buyers guide. Dan Cragin provide plenty of insight as for what to look for when purchasing a Gen 3.

[sambo32]

Might be shifting my search to a 2006 coupe, but still keeping an eye out on a 2005 vert.

[sambo32]

Are the 2006 blue with white stripe (launch edition) worth more than the 2006 solid red.

[Steve-Indy]

I suspect the blue/white 06 coupes are still priced a bit higher than the other 06 coupes...that seemed to be he case a few years ago.

[sambo32]

Is the Gen3 engine considered bullet proof, like the Gen4 engines.

[parabs]

Is the Gen3 engine considered bullet proof, like the Gen4 engines.

The Gen 3 engine is a bit of a creampuff, as far as viper engines go. Reliable of left stock for the street, but oil starvation on high speed sweepers on the track and the hypereutectic pistons are also a shortfall. That said, Gen 3 engines are usually reliable to about 650whp when tuned well NA. Boosted engines are perhaps a bit less so.

[sambo32]

I guess the advantage of the Gen3, is no drive by wire like the Gen4 and a little easier to tune.

[Steve M]

Is the Gen3 engine considered bullet proof, like the Gen4 engines.

Gen 4 engines are not considered bullet proof...they have cast pistons just like the Gen 3, and have some extra complexities (the VVT cam) that might actually make them a bit more delicate depending on who you ask. The Gen 5 with the forged pistons is in theory stronger, but the block casting issues have really clouded the durability debate with that one.


I guess the advantage of the Gen3, is no drive by wire like the Gen4 and a little easier to tune.

No drive-by-wire is correct; easier to tune is debatable IMO. The tool is available to tune a Gen 4, and while not as flexible as some might like, it does what it needs to do and there are plenty of tuners out there that know how to use it. The lack of flexibility isn't the tool itself, but rather how the PCM was designed and coded...it's just not very mod friendly beyond basic bolt-ons. The bigger question is whether or not you'd be able to find a local tuner that knew what they were doing...many don't. HPTuners offers tuning software for the Gen 4 and 5 crowds, but they do not offer anything for the Gen 3, and I'm not sure they ever will at this point due to lack of perceived return on investment.

[sambo32]

Pulled the trigger and put a despite down on a 2006 (launch Edition) blue with the white stripes, 9k miles. Excited and looking forward to it being in my garage.

[Steve-Indy]

CONGRATS...you will be impressed with the low end torque. Stock Gen IV and V Vipers have great torque that turns on about 3700 RPM.

[sambo32]

What brand tires did the 2006 Gen3 come with from the factory, I think I noticed a set of Michelin on the car.

[Steve-Indy]

Michelin ZP (Zero Pressure)..."runflats".