Gen 4 Fluid Change

[S281e]

Purchased an 08 Gen 4 with n A ctobernand im looking to change all the fluids for a fresh start in the spring. Doing a search I came across this thread which was very helpful.

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/15473-all-fluids-for-the-gen-3-4-vipers-most-commonly-used?highlight=fluid+change

It’s two years old so I’m curious to see if anyone has had any additional experience or if there have been any recent changes. I live the in app ne a f the northwest suburbs of Chicago but the car is only driven during spring/summer/fall and normally driven for street use. I might take it to the track for 1 or 2 days in the spring but would nout be able to do it consistently.

I’m also very curious to know which fluids I could do myself versus the ones I’m better off having a shop do. I have a one post lift so I’m hoping I could do all or the majority of the work. Up until this point I have generally always changed my own oil. That’s about it.

[Steve M]

Engine Oil

I switched to Mobil 1 10w40 for my past 2 engine oil changes, and it seems to be working well for me. The reason I went with it was detailed here:

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/22537-2014-TA-first-day-at-track-low-oil-pressure?p=361202&viewfull=1#post361202

I personally feel like the 0w40 is a bit too thin, especially during the warm summer months. My idle oil pressure has noticeably improved with the 10w40. Plus, it is cheap and easy to find at your local WalMart (although the same can be said for any of the Mobil 1 product line).

Differential Fluid

Differential fluid recommendations were well covered here:

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10104-FINAL-answer-on-Gen-V-Viper-Differential-lubricant-plus-a-Gen-IV-tip

And another tip of where you can get the correct Mopar fluid courtesy of Steve-Indy:


IF you have trouble getting the diff fluid through your dealer (last year, we waited over one month for Mopar to deliver it to a CJDR dealer who services many Vipers)...you can get it at a Mercedes dealer as it is used in AMG's and is in stock. This "Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75W-140" comes in 0.5 liter bottles with a very handy spout. It takes three bottles for a Gen V differential. The
M-B part number is: "A 001 989 52 03 10

While I usually go Mopar, the M-B source makes a great backup in a pinch.

And here's the procedure:

https://image.ibb.co/jubCPG/Viper-Differential-Fill-Procedure.jpg

Transmission Fluid

Transmission fluid isn't quite as cut and dry...the factory fill is ATF+4. It is a thin fluid, but it is easy and cheap to source. Due to the stringent ATF+4 standards, pretty much any brand will do (I'd suggest Castrol Transmax ATF+4). I've also used BG Synchro Shift II as per Donato Engineering's recommendation...it is a much thicker oil, but also way more expensive. Due to it being thicker, cold shifts can be a bit notchy, but once warm, will go away. It is supposed to provide superior protection over the ATF+4, especially if you like to keep your right foot planted for significant amounts of time. Fill procedures for that are here:

https://image.ibb.co/byD3Ww/Viper-Transmission-Fill-Procedure.jpg

Note the volume - that amount of fluid will bring the level up to BELOW the bottom of the fill plug. If you fill it up to the bottom of the fill plug hole, it will be slightly overfilled and might puke fluid out of the transmission vent.

Brake/Clutch Fluid

I only use Castrol SRF since it is still the gold standard for high performance brake fluid. I use it for my clutch hydraulics as well. If the price point is too high, any decent DOT 4 brake fluid will do the trick for both.

Power Steering Fluid

I use Castrol Transmax ATF+4. I put the car up in the air on jack stands, suck the fluid out of the reservoir, fill with new fluid, start the car, turn the steering wheel lock to lock a few times, shut it off, then suck out that fluid and refill. Lather, rinse, and repeat until you pull out nice clean fluid.

Coolant

I've copied notes from the pros like Dan Lesser that I've compiled and kept for future use, so I'll share what he's shared in the past for coolant flushes on Gen 3/4 cars:


DO NOT go through the hassle of removing the block plugs on the Gen-3+ cars. The Coolant used in this generation is not of a degrading type with respect to time. That last little bit of coolant will serve no purpose in replacement. I have yet to see a Gen-3 with "dirty coolant" that was not due to contamination of some sort. That said, Gen-3/4 also have a radiator drain petcock. Do not remove radiator hoses. Gen-3/4 cars should not be treated like Gen-1/2 cars, as they do not have the same components or problems in general with regard to service work.

For a Gen-3/4, simply remove the cap, and open the petcock until it stops draining. Close the petcock, open the bleeder, and fill with Mopar Orange [5-year] coolant. When it stops taking coolant, cap the bottle, and squeeze the top hose until coolant comes out of the bleeder screw. Close the bleeder while holding the hose, and then release and top off the bottle, cap, and start engine. Make sure the engine warms up, and watch the needle to confirm the thermostat opens; should see it raise to thermostat temp, then fall back slightly, while radiator gets warmer to the touch. Let run for a few minutes, revving occasionally to push any air to the top of the system- you can also crack bleeder slightly to help speed this up. Turn off, allow to cool completely, and top off coolant. Done.

Note: DO NOT attempt this while car is slanted towards passenger side, or slanted forwards- bleeder should be lower than coolant bottle cap.
Note: SOME cars may have slight air pockets, simply squeeze the upper radiator hose in rapid succession until they break down and coolant level starts to drop again as it displaces the air- this is obvious if you cannot get coolant out of the bleeder or add coolant to the bottle, at a time when you are nowhere near being full.
Note: SOME cars may have clogged bleeders- make sure it isn't, and if so remove the bleeder and clean it out. This can cause the above as well.

And here's the procedure from the service manual:

07 - Cooling/Standard Procedure

FILLING COOLING SYSTEM

CAUTION: Do not use well water or suspect water supply in cooling system. A 50/50 mixture of the recommended antifreeze coolant and distilled water is recommended.

NOTE: Cooling system fill procedure is critical to overall cooling system performance.

1. Close the radiator draincock.

2. Install the engine block drain plugs.

3. Attach one end of a 6.35 mm (0.250 in.) ID clear hose that is approximately 1200 mm (48 in.) long, to the bleed screw.

4. Route the hose away from the accessory drive belt, drive pulleys and cooling fan. Place the other end of hose into a clean container. The hose will prevent coolant from contacting the accessory drive belt when bleeding the system during the refilling operation.

NOTE: It is imperative that the cooling system air bleed screw be opened before any coolant is added to the cooling system. Failure to open the bleed screw first will result in an incomplete fill of the system.

5. Open the cooling system bleed screw.

6. Pour a 50/50 mix of Mopar® Antifreeze/Coolant, 5 Year/100,000 Mile Formula and distilled water into the coolant pressure bottle.

7. Slowly fill the cooling system until a steady stream of coolant flows from the hose attached to the bleed screw

8. Close the bleed screw and continue filling the system to the top of the COLD FILL RANGE .

9. Remove the hose from bleed screw.

10. Install the cap on the coolant pressure bottle.

11. Start and run the engine until it reaches operating temperature.

12. If removed, install front belly pan. Refer to 23 - BODY/EXTERIOR/BELLY PAN - INSTALLATION.

NOTE: The engine cooling system will push any remaining air into the coolant bottle within about an hour of normal driving. As a result, a drop in coolant level in the pressure bottle may occur.

And another tip:


Make sure you don’t have any air or air pockets in the cooling system. If the engine has run hot and pushed out any coolant you need to make sure you get it full again and get any air out. You can use a vacuum assist fill system or if you don’t have one of those, at least jack the right side of the car up as high as you can to get the bottle to be the high point in the system and fill and bleed the system from there. I have found once the pressure cap has relieved, it will no longer hold pressure as it should and it should be replaced. I recommend a quality aftermarket racing cap in the 28 – 30 psi range. The higher system pressure will reduce the likelihood of pump cavitation and increase the boiling temperature of the fluid as well. Pressure is your friend, just make sure your hose clamps are all tight and in good shape.

The last time I did this, I used Zerex G-05 coolant. I remember seeing the fluid level in the overflow reservoir go down over the next 3-4 drives or so after I did it as it was self bleeding. After that, the level has been rock solid.

[Steve M]

As for whether or not you should do any/all of them yourself, I'd highly recommend just doing them yourself if you have the tools and the time. It really doesn't take much in the way of specialized tools, and pretty much everything is easy to access on the Viper minus the damn clutch bleeder screw. For that, I installed a remote bleeder the last time I had the transmission out...it makes that task so much easier. To make some of the other tasks easier, I use a pressurized brake bleeding setup (Motive Power Bleeder) and a pressurized fluid pump (Motive Power Fill) for the transmission and differential. Both make the jobs easier, and so much less messy.

My $0.02, probably worth about that much.

[01sapphirebob]

+1 on doing this work yourself if you can. The car is relatively easy to work on. I did all the fluids in both my cars three years ago so they are due again this coming year. As far as what fluids to use, I stuck with all the MOPAR fluids. I rarely track my cars so the factory fills work just fine for me.

[Steve M]

And one more thing...a few years ago I made a maintenance tracking spreadsheet in Excel that had fastener torque specs and other random, relevant information for the Gen 3/4 Vipers. I've offered to send a copy to anyone that wants it, and that offer still stands. If you'd like a copy, just send me a PM with your email address and I'll pass it along. Here are a couple screen captures to show what it looks like:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/MaintenanceSpreadsheet1_zpse0e267b0.jpg

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http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/MaintenanceSpreadsheet2_zps571cf9b8.jpg

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http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/MaintenanceSpreadsheet3_zps6058ae4a.jpg

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http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/MaintenanceSpreadsheet4_zpsbe922086.jpg

[viperBase1]

+4 Kabillion.

Awesome spreadsheet.. been using it since I got the car.
Even back-filled it with all the slowhatch history.

N' thanks for the Coolant flush info.. Perfect timing.
Was already planning on doing that over the holiday break.

[Steve M]

+4 Kabillion.

Awesome spreadsheet.. been using it since I got the car.
Even back-filled it with all the slowhatch history.

N' thanks for the Coolant flush info.. Perfect timing.
Was already planning on doing that over the holiday break.

The coolant flush is very straightforward...just keep an eye on the reservoir level after your first few drives after doing it (and top off as necessary), but other than that, it was easier than any car I've worked on to date.

Another quick tip/note - others in the past have highly recommended this type of tool:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-24680-Spill-Free-Funnel/dp/B00A6AS6LY

https://www.amazon.com/EPAuto-Radiator-Coolant-Filling-Funnel/dp/B01I40ZQWE/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_bs_lp_tr_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=E0ZKCV0RZ1RV3E79EM67

The idea is that it gives you a little more pressure as you fill the system to help push air pockets out of the system. It looked like a good idea, but I never ended up needing it when I did mine. It is relatively cheap though, so it might be worth grabbing one just in case?

[SA Heat]

Nicely done, Steve M....this thread should be pinned.

[S281e]

What torque wrench would anyone recommend to cover the majority of bolts I’m about to touch?

[Steve M]

You'd probably be well served with a 1/4" (20-200 in-lbs) and a 3/8" (20-100 ft-lbs) torque wrench.

For a 3/8" drive torque wrench, I've had really good luck with my Precision Instruments split-beam torque wrench (https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Instruments-PREC2FR100F-Wrench-Torque/dp/B000YOX568). It is a little different than your typical micrometer click-style torque wrench, but I like that you don't have to turn the setting back down when you are done with it every time. I probably use that the most of any of my torque wrenches, and I have quite a few.

For a 1/4" drive torque wrench, I use a Harbor Freight cheapie, and it has served me well for years (https://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-63881.html). I might get a nicer one some day (I really like Precision Instruments at the moment), but this one has done the trick on many different projects, including my Gen 5 intake manifold install.

If you want to drive yourself insane, go check out The Garage Journal Forum, and do a search for torque wrenches. Lots of them discussed (including Harbor Freight models), and you can even get ones that vibrate for your pleasure.

To be quite honest, I run into more situations where I can't seem to get a torque wrench in the right spot to use it. About the only bolts I torque consistently are ones in the driveline - lug nuts, u-joint straps, things like that. There's theory, and then there's practice; the two don't always align.

[viperBase1]

The coolant flush is very straightforward...just keep an eye on the reservoir level after your first few drives after doing it (and top off as necessary), but other than that, it was easier than any car I've worked on to date.

Another quick tip/note - others in the past have highly recommended this type of tool:

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-24680-Spill-Free-Funnel/dp/B00A6AS6LY

https://www.amazon.com/EPAuto-Radiator-Coolant-Filling-Funnel/dp/B01I40ZQWE/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_bs_lp_tr_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=E0ZKCV0RZ1RV3E79EM67

The idea is that it gives you a little more pressure as you fill the system to help push air pockets out of the system. It looked like a good idea, but I never ended up needing it when I did mine. It is relatively cheap though, so it might be worth grabbing one just in case?
Yep, was very straightforward. Easy-Peasy no muss no fuss no mess.


I went ahead and got the EPAuto Kit from Amazon and used it.. was a nice big funnel to avoid any splashing.
But I don't think it did a damn thing to help burp/bleed the system. The bleeder screw on the top of the engine/waterpump handles that part very nicely.
I could see hooking up a MightyVac to the bleeder screw to pull coolant through, but I found
opening the bleeder > squeezing the radiator hose > closing the bleeder > releasing the radiator hose worked really well too.
Literally watched it suck coolant from the tank.

Replaced with Zerex G05. Baby Doll seems to like it. :t1509: Perhaps this was a bit overdue.

I also replaced the Idler Pulley. Another super simple job. Was so easy thought "that can't be it, I musta missed something".
Had some noises coming from down in there somewhere and now their gone! :orange:
All that's left is some clickity-klackity valve noise.

[Steve M]

Glad to hear...these cars really are pretty easy to work on. The hardest thing I think I've done is a clutch swap, but that wasn't too bad either all considering. Which reminds me...I need to finish up my Nth Moto clutch install write up.

[Redx]

What torque wrench would anyone recommend to cover the majority of bolts I’m about to touch?

I use a snap on 3/8 tech angle, great torque wrench with a wide sweep so you can even do down to 5 ft/lbs and retains a relatively small head. I bought this specifically for the torque sequence on the Gen 5 intake manifold but has worked perfectly on everything else on the car.

https://store.snapon.com/TechAngle-174-Models-2-Accuracy-Ratcheting-Flex-Head-3-8-Drive-TechAngle-reg-Flex-Head-Torque-Wrench-5-ndash-100-ft-lb--P759379.aspx