2013 Roll Cage install

[Arizona Vipers]

Here's a couple starter pics. We just started on this, so I'll update with pics as the fabricator sends them. He's not the best picture taker, so bear with me. LOL. His skills are meant for other things!
I went with local shop https://602flatout.com/ as the owner Leroy has built dozens of NasaProRacing.com spec cages. The good news is since the car will be under 3,000 lbs with the cage we are able to use 1 3/4" with .095 wall which saved 32 lbs versus .120 wall which is required on cars over 3,000 lbs. My goal with this whole project is to be 2899 lbs with the cage and keeping the exterior of the car bone stock and to keep the interior looking somewhat stock we are going to keep the full dash and center console etc. The entire dash assembly was 38 lbs, we stripped the backside of everything we could and the final weight on the entire dash will be only 13 lbs including all factory gauges and the center screen will still be functional.


I'll keep posting pics to this thread as I get them.



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[1evilviper]

ohhh my god, those pictures give me serious anxiety!

[Topplayer]

excited to see more!
got any work done to the GT? would love to see that too!

[Scott_in_fl]

Oh my God is right! That's a serious tear-down there.

[SilverACR]

#becauseracecar! Awesome!

[sharmut]

Neat, didn't realize there is so much space behind the dash.

[stradman]

Here's a couple starter pics. We just started on this, so I'll update with pics as the fabricator sends them. He's not the best picture taker, so bear with me. LOL. His skills are meant for other things!
I went with local shop https://602flatout.com/ as the owner Leroy has built dozens of NasaProRacing.com spec cages. The good news is since the car will be under 3,000 lbs with the cage we are able to use 1 3/4" with .095 wall which saved 32 lbs versus .120 wall which is required on cars over 3,000 lbs. My goal with this whole project is to be 2899 lbs with the cage and keeping the exterior of the car bone stock and to keep the interior looking somewhat stock we are going to keep the full dash and center console etc. The entire dash assembly was 38 lbs, we stripped the backside of everything we could and the final weight on the entire dash will be only 13 lbs including all factory gauges and the center screen will still be functional.


I'll keep posting pics to this thread as I get them.



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Cool. Once you got the roll cage in, then just put a seat and a steering wheel in there and hook up and electronic monitor for the revs and you don't need anything else buddy. Fook the dash. I'm sure that would save you quite a few lbs!

[Bill Pemberton]

Overall Goal? Time Trial beast or what Class are you thinking of running if doing door to door ( TTU in NASA? ).

Enjoying the build and look forward to the continued progress.

[Arizona Vipers]

The roof is off! It just unbolts believe it or not

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[Arizona Vipers]

Overall Goal? Time Trial beast or what Class are you thinking of running if doing door to door ( TTU in NASA? ).

Enjoying the build and look forward to the continued progress.

It's already a very successful TTU car, it holds lots of track records, but will do some STU here and there. Honestly, race group is just to expensive to do with a big powered Viper. But I'll jump in one here and there if there's another fast car.

[Bill Pemberton]

Cool, and you might find it is not much more expensive to run STU , since often there are fewer run sessions for the race groups -- or easy to skip say a practice session and just do a quick qualifying. I find I am spending pretty similar money running ST2 as I did running TT2. I am a bit behind you , though, as my car is a heavy duty brute, and Winter is the time to lose about 150 piggy pounds. I will be happy if I get rid of 100 and really cool how much you have shed. Obviously we are miles apart, but hopefully , someday we might see each other at a NASA event ( I am running in SCCA too, even though the weight reduction will still not make my car competitive).

The lift off top is a credit to Ralph, the SRT Engineers, and all their passion, as the rumor was they were only given 1 million to figure out how to build a coupe out of the convertible with the Gen III. Some of that same unique thought carried over to the Gen V and enabled the Carbon Fiber Reptile to live a few more years ?!

[Arizona Vipers]

Cool, and you might find it is not much more expensive to run STU , since often there are fewer run sessions for the race groups -- or easy to skip say a practice session and just do a quick qualifying. I find I am spending pretty similar money running ST2 as I did running TT2. I am a bit behind you , though, as my car is a heavy duty brute, and Winter is the time to lose about 150 piggy pounds. I will be happy if I get rid of 100 and really cool how much you have shed. Obviously we are miles apart, but hopefully , someday we might see each other at a NASA event ( I am running in SCCA too, even though the weight reduction will still not make my car competitive).

The lift off top is a credit to Ralph, the SRT Engineers, and all their passion, as the rumor was they were only given 1 million to figure out how to build a coupe out of the convertible with the Gen III. Some of that same unique thought carried over to the Gen V and enabled the Carbon Fiber Reptile to live a few more years ?!

In TT I'm doing 6 laps a weekend! LOL. I get on, get my time, get off and hang out and help my son's who just started as well. Race group would be one hour minimum a weekend i think. What car are you running in ST2?
And that's a great story about Ralph and the Gen 3! I believe it!

[38D]

Serious tear down! Can’t wait to see the cage installed. Get those tubes in there tight!

[heath1225]

ohhh my god, those pictures give me serious anxiety!

Same feeling I had when my Gen 2 was repainted. Not a good feeling!

[Bill Pemberton]

Man you have more willpower than me , I couldn't do just a few laps when I was doing Time Trials , I would run the entire session -- too much fun! Currently running a Boss 302S , factory built racecar, but she is heavy for the class and need to put the old girl on a diet. I get teased by all my Club Members and friends , because my Viper has become a garage queen ----- folks getting back at me for all the crap I gave them for driving their Snakes so few miles every year. What goes around comes around, ha,ha.

[1of1TA1.0]

Here's a Gen IV cage for reference. They get tight inside once all the panels and roof goes back on! Your project looks amazing, good luck sir.

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[Next Phase]

Can you comment on the factory roll bar that is in the Gen V? I see it's already removed in the above pictures... Any idea of how robust the factory unit is. I plan to put in a 4 point in my Gen V, but may not have the time to do that before my next event in Feb (and I plan to run 6 point harnesses).

Thanks for sharing the build pics!

[Arizona Vipers]

Can you comment on the factory roll bar that is in the Gen V? I see it's already removed in the above pictures... Any idea of how robust the factory unit is. I plan to put in a 4 point in my Gen V, but may not have the time to do that before my next event in Feb (and I plan to run 6 point harnesses).

Thanks for sharing the build pics!

The factory roll bar is very stout, much stronger than I expected. It would definitely keep the roof from crushing in in all but the worst of crashes. Here's a pic-


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[Arizona Vipers]

Man you have more willpower than me , I couldn't do just a few laps when I was doing Time Trials , I would run the entire session -- too much fun! Currently running a Boss 302S , factory built racecar, but she is heavy for the class and need to put the old girl on a diet. I get teased by all my Club Members and friends , because my Viper has become a garage queen ----- folks getting back at me for all the crap I gave them for driving their Snakes so few miles every year. What goes around comes around, ha,ha.

Most of our tracks around here are small, so the faster guys run into traffic very quickly. We've got some Mustangs around here that do very well in TT2!

[Next Phase]

The factory roll bar is very stout, much stronger than I expected. It would definitely keep the roof from crushing in in all but the worst of crashes. Here's a pic-


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Thanks for your comments, gives me much more confidence coming from someone that has seen it first hand... I'll be shaking the car down for the first time anyway, so I don't plan to go all out. (I say that now...LOL).

[Murpowa]

Awesome. Looking forward to additional updates

[Exhlr8n]

Looking forward to the final project!

[Arizona Vipers]

A couple more pics, the bars are starting to get welded in! :drive:


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[ViperGeorge]

A couple more pics, the bars are starting to get welded in! :drive:


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I don't recall seeing any pictures of a Viper from the rear with the roof and stuff removed. Why what appears to be two tanks behind the bulkhead? Are they both part of the gas tank? If so, why are they split? Weight distribution?

[darbgnik]

The factory roll bar is very stout, much stronger than I expected. It would definitely keep the roof from crushing in in all but the worst of crashes. Here's a pic-


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Thanks for that AZ, the only other comment I read/heard about the factory bar was from a roll bar maker, which obviously wouldn't sing high praises of the competition(factory one).

You are kind of a mad man, you know that right?

[Back In Black]

I don't recall seeing any pictures of a Viper from the rear with the roof and stuff removed. Why what appears to be two tanks behind the bulkhead? Are they both part of the gas tank? If so, why are they split? Weight distribution?

The tank only appears to be split. It's one piece with the pump in the middle along with the pollution control devices.35939

[Arizona Vipers]

Thanks for that AZ, the only other comment I read/heard about the factory bar was from a roll bar maker, which obviously wouldn't sing high praises of the competition(factory one).

You are kind of a mad man, you know that right?

It would only help you in a roll over, not much else. If you are wearing harnesses and your roof caved in in a roll over, your neck would be broke no matter what.

[sharmut]

Curious, anyone know the purpose of the foam looking piece in the photo?
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[1of1TA1.0]

To quiet the full pump noise

[sharmut]

To quiet the full pump noise

Interesting did not reinstall mine after running fire extinguisher line into the fuel tank area. Have not noticed any noise the fuel pump, will pay closer attention next time.

[Arizona Vipers]

More pics! Cage is done. Just needs to be painted, then the car put back together :drive:


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[Arizona Vipers]

A few more-

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[BlknBlu]

Looks nice, but just curious why it is not symmetrical behind the seats?

Bruce

[1of1TA1.0]

Looking good!

Where are the tabs/brackets to bolt the rear deckled back on?

Also, where do the back bars tie in? I can't tell from the pics, looks like the upper shock mount?

[Arizona Vipers]

Looks nice, but just curious why it is not symmetrical behind the seats?

Bruce

That's just what Nasa specs call for. The roll cage spec rules start at 15.6 here (if you are interested)- https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/282/2019.0.pdf

[BlknBlu]

That's just what Nasa specs call for. The roll cage spec rules start at 15.6 here (if you are interested)- https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/282/2019.0.pdf


Thanks for the data. it is in case the drivers seat should fail back it appears.

Bruce

[FrankBarba]

Steel or Chrome Molly ?

[Arizona Vipers]

Steel or Chrome Molly ?

DOM steel, 1.750” x 0.095”
Chrome Moly is not allowed in Nasa

[Pappy]

VERY NICE!!!

Pappy

[Exhlr8n]

Looking Sweet, and great for peace of mind!

[Arizona Vipers]

Looking good!

Where are the tabs/brackets to bolt the rear deckled back on?

Also, where do the back bars tie in? I can't tell from the pics, looks like the upper shock mount?

Correct, the back bars are tied into the upper shock mounts

[SRT_BluByU]

DOM steel, 1.750” x 0.095”
Chrome Moly is not allowed in Nasa

Why is that?

Edit: looking at the link to your rule book looks like Seamless Alloy (4130) is allowed.. isn’t that chrome moly steel?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/4130tubing_un1.php

[ViperGeorge]

Have you put the seat in to test clearance of the roll bar to your head?

[Arizona Vipers]

Why is that?

Edit: looking at the link to your rule book looks like Seamless Alloy (4130) is allowed.. isn’t that chrome moly steel?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/4130tubing_un1.php

ahh yeah you are right, I remember now why we didn't use it, no weight would have been saved because we would have had to use the same wall thickness.

[Arizona Vipers]

Have you put the seat in to test clearance of the roll bar to your head?

No but it's over as far as we could go so if it's in my way, then it's in my way LOL. I think it will be fine.

[SRT_BluByU]

Understand... when I read you mentioned chrome moly being outlawed it didn’t make sense to me.. hahah.. I can see where it’d be a cost add for sure and racing is always a balance! It’s wonderful watching your build progress and hearing about your racing accomplishments! Thanks for posting all the great built up pix and threads we all very much appreciate it! Keep em comming!

[Pappy]

Understand... when I read you mentioned chrome moly being outlawed it didn’t make sense to me.. hahah.. I can see where it’d be a cost add for sure and racing is always a balance! It’s wonderful watching your build progress and hearing about your racing accomplishments! Thanks for posting all the great built up pix and threads we all very much appreciate it! Keep em comming!

There used to be an advantage to using chrome moly (CM) because it is stronger than mild steel for the same thickness, so most sanctioning bodies would allow a smaller tube diameter or thinner wall thickness (lighter weight) for CM than mild steel for the same weight-class car - for example 1 3/4 inch/.120 wall DOM verses 1 5/8 inch/.095 wall CM. That advantage has slowly disappeared from the rule books (like NASA's), so there is no weight advantage to using CM. Also, CM is harder to weld and should be heat treated after welding to prevent cracking just outside the weld on impact - very difficult to do. A lot of sanctioning bodies encourage using mild steel as it tends to deform as it absorbs impact rather than breaking.

Pappy

[SRT_BluByU]

Great explanation - thanks pappy!

[RedTanRT/10]

AZ, looks great!! Smart to have the passenger side cross bars bow outward. The CC set up is straight and a pain for passengers entry/exit as well as the access to the floorboard where the battery and fire bottle are located

[Arizona Vipers]

There used to be an advantage to using chrome moly (CM) because it is stronger than mild steel for the same thickness, so most sanctioning bodies would allow a smaller tube diameter or thinner wall thickness (lighter weight) for CM than mild steel for the same weight-class car - for example 1 3/4 inch/.120 wall DOM verses 1 5/8 inch/.095 wall CM. That advantage has slowly disappeared from the rule books (like NASA's), so there is no weight advantage to using CM. Also, CM is harder to weld and should be heat treated after welding to prevent cracking just outside the weld on impact - very difficult to do. A lot of sanctioning bodies encourage using mild steel as it tends to deform as it absorbs impact rather than breaking.

Pappy

What did you use on the cage for the Vette Pappy?

[Nemesis]

No but it's over as far as we could go so if it's in my way, then it's in my way LOL. I think it will be fine.

You really want to test fit it. I ran a car last year where the left side top of my helmet hit the bar, it became very uncomfortable very quickly.

[Pappy]

1 3/4 inch/.120 wall DOM. The car weighs less than 3000#, and I could have gotten by with .095 wall, but there are provisions in the rules that let you exceed the allowable number of bends in a given tube if you go to the next higher weight category tube size. Also, until I went with an all aluminum motor I wasn't sure I would be able to stay under 3000#. I just played it safe in case I had to use that provision or in case the weight got too high.

[Arizona Vipers]

You really want to test fit it. I ran a car last year where the left side top of my helmet hit the bar, it became very uncomfortable very quickly.

Yeah my Gen 2 race car was like that. My head was titled to the right like 30 degrees. LOL.
They put the bar as far up and to the left as possible, that's all we can do. I'll find out at the end of the week. I'm pretty short so should be ok.

[ViperGeorge]

Yeah my Gen 2 race car was like that. My head was titled to the right like 30 degrees. LOL.
They put the bar as far up and to the left as possible, that's all we can do. I'll find out at the end of the week. I'm pretty short so should be ok.

Does NASA have rules about how far the bars must be from your head? Or do they simply require padding on the bars if they are close? Of course padding further reduces clearance to your noggin.

[Arizona Vipers]

More pics with cage painted. Note: Dash was gutted on the inside and will be going back in so I'll still have my gauges and touch screen, along with center console cover



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[Arizona Vipers]

A few more pics....

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[ViperGeorge]

AZ, just curious, how did the shop know how to disassemble a Viper to that extent? Have they worked on Vipers before?

[Jack B]

When you think roll bar, it seems simple, this thread sure changes that thought train - very very nice.

[Arizona Vipers]

AZ, just curious, how did the shop know how to disassemble a Viper to that extent? Have they worked on Vipers before?

He said it was actually pretty easy. The roof etc unbolted, no cutting was necessary at all. Hopefully they remember how to put it back together :smilielol:

[IHOP]

He said it was actually pretty easy. The roof etc unbolted, no cutting was necessary at all. Hopefully they remember how to put it back together :smilielol:

:smilielol:

[ViperGeorge]

He said it was actually pretty easy. The roof etc unbolted, no cutting was necessary at all. Hopefully they remember how to put it back together :smilielol:

Well if they forget a few parts it will make it lighter! :smilielol:

[RedTanRT/10]

AZ, just curious, how did the shop know how to disassemble a Viper to that extent? Have they worked on Vipers before?

George, a good shop can disassemble and fabricate any car as well as upgrade cheap OEM fasteners and sub-assemblies. The guys I use work for a number of OEM's building prototypes and auto show cars. Shops like this don't need the factory manual!!

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[PaulP]

This is awesome that your doing this, good on you! Keep it up cant wait to see the finished product, All the quality so far looks top notch.

[stradman]

Its actually quite awesome also being able to see all the innards of the car in such detail. Fascinating! Thanks!

[Arizona Vipers]

Its actually quite awesome also being able to see all the innards of the car in such detail. Fascinating! Thanks!

check this link out, tons of pics to go through, but you can find the Gen 5 in every part of disassembly, pretty cool stuff-
https://www.motor1.com/photo/2224454/dodge-viper-production-at-conner-avenue-assembly/