A V10 Viper V12 Ferrari Bubble

[MrCreosote]

I wonder if V10 Vipers will appreciate in value? The 1992, 1996 GTS, and Last Model are candidates.

[99RT10]

Nope, soon they all will be worth nothing. Zero. Nada. And with the end of gasoline cars as we know it, I plan to go out and buy a used Chevy Volt..............................

[Creatre]

If only we had a crystal ball....

[MrCreosote]

Hey! I actually have a crystal ball! It is about 5" in diameter and has a slight flat spot so it won't roll off.

The sound of the future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K6oOVET6fQ

[MrCreosote]

You can't win. The only cars that will appreciate strongly are the ones that were never driven with 3 or 4 digits on the odometer.

My 96 has 85k and modes everywhere so I don't have to worry about "striking it rich."

[MrCreosote]

You know what... considering the Perfect Storm of Hardware, Software, and Knowledge of tuning a Viper, (makes the S2000 "tax" a joke), the electric car doesn't sound that vomitous. Especially if it's a 1000hp electric car - I don't know about you, but I don't give a rat's ass about what propels a Launch Rollercoaster!

[TOXIC 10]

I for one I agree with 99RT10, so as all these Vipers depreciate in value down to pennies on the dollar, go ahead and bring them to me. As you all embrace the coming electric revolution, i will putter around in all my evil, environment killing, fossil fuel guzzling, ear polluting, eye sore Vipers. I shall do this for history, and for the posterity of the breed only. I shall take little pleasure in this burden, save for the sunny and clear, spring through fall weekends and road trips and every day that ends in -y. Please, do not confuse the appearance of utter joy and contentment on my face, as I shall force a smile upon my face so that the stirling reputation and glory of our four-wheeled lovelies shall go untarnished... For them, I shall bear this burden...lol

[J TNT]

I for one I agree with 99RT10, so as all these Vipers depreciate in value down to pennies on the dollar, go ahead and bring them to me. As you all embrace the coming electric revolution, i will putter around in all my evil, environment killing, fossil fuel guzzling, ear polluting, eye sore Vipers. I shall do this for history, and for the posterity of the breed only. I shall take little pleasure in this burden, save for the sunny and clear, spring through fall weekends and road trips and every day that ends in -y. Please, do not confuse the appearance of utter joy and contentment on my face, as I shall force a smile upon my face so that the stirling reputation and glory of our four-wheeled lovelies shall go untarnished... For them, I shall bear this burden...lol

That's funny ....
The only thing you left out was the gnashing of teeth.......lol !

[1BADV10]

I feel sorry for all the viper owners out there that never drive and enjoy there cars. Some years from now when the day comes for the viper market to crash and these cars are worth very little and now the owners are older they then realize they gave up all those younger years of driving enjoyment only to find their garage queen with 5000 or less miles on it is worth no more than their kid's minivan full of happy meal toys stuck under the seats!! Drive and enjoy them Vipers, that's what you bought it for, that's what they were built for.

[ViperPete]

There are a lot of Vipers still around. Even though it is a special car it probably won't appreciate in value for 20-30 years or something crazy. And it will be the special, low mileage ones that do.

[MrCreosote]

Apologies, this transitioned into a rant sooner than I anticipated...

I have 85k on my 96 GTS - it had 60k on it when I bot it in 2001 and I planned to drive it over 200k.

TIRES:

But the availability of tires totally FUBAR'd the idea of touring the country. No, I won't put P-Zero's or R888's on a street driven Viper,

I drove mine around for about 500 miles with its donut until I could find a used MXX3 to replace a rear that I destroyed because I was too lazy to check the tire pressure! That little fiasco is schooled me on the tire situation. Oh, and it was that old, cracked, used MXX3 that got me over Donner Summit just after chain control tuned off on Rte 50 - 2-3 inches of every type of snow and slush - 15 mph white knuckles for 1.5 hours.

EFI & BARO:

I also think the PCM situation is an embarrassment due to Key On BARO making it impossible to adjust WOT fueling for altitude. I mean the PCM is as dumb as a carburetor. Would anyone with sound mind and sound body make a Viper that won't fuel properly going up Pike's Peak? Or at seal level for that matter?

TUNING:

I understand completely why there are Viper Tuner Specialists and Viper owners drop their car of with checks written for amounts having 4 zeros.

Unfortunately, I'm not that guy. I'm the guy that beats you with my car, built with my hands and yes in the 70's I was "top eliminator" in our street racing region with a 63 Paxton Supercharged R2 Lark. Yes, a Viper uber cool and I consider mine a magic car (because magical things happen when I drive it), but you cannot comprehend what it is like beating someone with a Studebaker!

Now street racing is a joke. It's nothing more than who can spend the most money and who is the best tuner shop. It's real for the tuners though (!) - the car owners are nothing more than Executive Producers.

[Lemay88]

I don’t know about appreciate in value but I appreciate driving mine every summer.
Just wish my son and someday grandson will be able to do the same.
Electric cars might be the future but I am happy to say Ithat lived in the years when sound was as important as looks...
Long live Viper

[Martin2000GTS]

TIRES:

But the availability of tires totally FUBAR'd the idea of touring the country. No, I won't put P-Zero's or R888's on a street driven Viper,

I drove mine around for about 500 miles with its donut until I could find a used MXX3 to replace a rear that I destroyed because I was too lazy to check the tire pressure! That little fiasco is schooled me on the tire situation. Oh, and it was that old, cracked, used MXX3 that got me over Donner Summit just after chain control tuned off on Rte 50 - 2-3 inches of every type of snow and slush - 15 mph white knuckles for 1.5 hours.


You would rather find used MXX3 tires to drive on your car today instead of a new P zero? Am i reading that correctly?

[white out]

Viper will never have Ferrari/Porsche collectibility.

[Coloviper]

If I have learned one thing in life, it is to never say never. All these ODB1 and early ODB2 cars will be worth something when ODB3 is mandated. I predict they may one day go for their original MRSP but that is about it.

[J TNT]

Viper will never have Ferrari/Porsche collectibility.

Funny some said the same thing on 71 Hemi Cuda convertibles vs Exotics ..............lol !

[Drummerviper]

It would help if magazines would stop with hoax stories about new Vipers in the future.

According to Bob Lutz before long none of us will have cars. We will just call up pods on our phone and cars will take us places. The only people who will be able to have cars will be the rich who can only use them on tracks. Could be.

[MrCreosote]

TIRES:

But the availability of tires totally FUBAR'd the idea of touring the country. No, I won't put P-Zero's or R888's on a street driven Viper,

I drove mine around for about 500 miles with its donut until I could find a used MXX3 to replace a rear that I destroyed because I was too lazy to check the tire pressure! That little fiasco is schooled me on the tire situation. Oh, and it was that old, cracked, used MXX3 that got me over Donner Summit just after chain control tuned off on Rte 50 - 2-3 inches of every type of snow and slush - 15 mph white knuckles for 1.5 hours.


You would rather find used MXX3 tires to drive on your car today instead of a new P zero? Am i reading that correctly?

You better believe it!

I've run cracked tires that would make your head explode all my life (I'm 66). But then I don't drive my Viper fast - once tires are hooked, I lose interest in about 2 seconds - I have no interest in Speed without G's. 253 mph in Texas mile is another matter.

AND

HELL WILL FREEZE OVER, PIGS WILL FLY OUT OF MY BUTT, AND @#($*&@#(%* will happen before I spend a bundle on 5/32nds new tires that last 9000 miles. P-Zero only makes sense if you only drive your car to and from the track. Anything else is a pure, unadulterated waste of money. (Having to deal with asshats touching my car and rims doesn't help either.)

NOTE: For people driving their cars 1-2k a year and never track it and never drive it in the rain (or snow!). The P-Zero mileage is debatable. But if I had PZ's when I had to make Donner Pass on Rte 50 dodging chain control a couple years ago, I'd be dead or my car wrecked - you might say my cracked MXX3's saved my life.

[MrCreosote]

It would help if magazines would stop with hoax stories about new Vipers in the future.

According to Bob Lutz before long none of us will have cars. We will just call up pods on our phone and cars will take us places. The only people who will be able to have cars will be the rich who can only use them on tracks. Could be.

I just checked gas prices in UK and its $5.79 a gallon with $5.30 being lowest in Europe more or less. Gas prices alone will kill the IC engine. Can you imagine spending $100 to fill up your Viper? :furious:

Maybe those PZ's are making more sense...

[CopperCrazy]

Over time our Vipers will increase in value, regardless of how many miles or mods that are on them. Look at the muscle cars we could buy in the 80's for a few thousand dollars and what they are worth today, regardless of how 'hopped up' they were. You can barely buy a shell of a Dodge Charger for under $5000 today.
That is the high end of the sticker price when they were new. Mileage on muscle cars has little impact on the value nowadays. A Hemi Cuda with 5000 vs one with 100,000 miles is still worth a fortune compared to what they cost new. I have a restored 70 Charger R/T and I put several thousand miles on it a year and no one has ever said they would buy it from me for less because I actually drive it. Our Vipers are iconic with their design, like the Charger, and it's V10. Everyone just needs to enjoy driving them and sit back and watch the values go up. As long as you maintain them, drive them. Give it another 10 to 15 years. There will always be car collectors out there and the Viper will be one of the cars they will want to have in their stable.

[MrCreosote]

Hummm.... the V10 appreciation is questionable because while a "podium finish," it didn't take the V12 Gold.

What if the V10 intriques people like the DOHC V8's? The Ford Cammer is worth a fortune while the LT5 is worthless. Not good...

The automotive era may be the driving factor:

Muscle vs Post Muscle?

Metal vs Plastic?

Analog vs Digital?


________________

Short rant follows:

Cars before 1970 were pure and muscle cars were the orchids. That will not change.

After 1970 we had oil prices, the disappearance of high octane fuel, EPA/CARB/NHTSA/CAFE/etc., and insurance companies fall upon the automobile like cancers where the high performance cars are anecdotal.

It's like street racing before and after $$$ showed up. $$$ changed it from people who loved fast cars so much they built them with their own hands to who has the most money.

I don't think Exotics will hold value like Muscle Cars. Exotics are just the by-products of rampaging wealth. Then they fall into the hands of Cheapskates.

Are the Cheapskates going to raise the prices? or the Big Money that dumped them? Nope. Both groups will move on to greener pastures.

Seriously, what Exotic stands out? They're as plentiful as snow flakes - more like tulips.

However, the Ferrari bubble was plagued by the fact that numerous models has the V12. The V10 only had the Viper. So that focuses attention.

...better stop now...

[MrCreosote]

The unique thing about Muscle Cars was they came and went. Quickly.

This generate a Great Famine which created a Great Hunger for them.

This did not happen to Exotics.

There may never be a Great Hunger for an old Viper because you could always buy something newer and better.

The V10? People never lusted after V10's in their day so no Hunger there.

But the V10 will probably be the largest cylinder number domestic cars will ever see. That is of historical significance.

But then the historically significant 90's DOHC LT5 ZR-1, didn't stir the cockles of investors.

[Coloviper]

Sorry but I don’t believe the muscle cars of the 50s/60s/70s will enjoy a forever value hold. Give it another 10 years and see where they are at when the old timers who loved them for more than they were are far below ground. You saw the same thing with the Baby Bird T-Birds. Hey I loved them but let’s be honest, they suck if you really want to drive them. Hell I sold my fully restored 69’ Mustang Mach 1 for my 96’ Viper. Don’t under estimate the fact that a 40 year old today has zero connection with those old muscle cars no matter what a Fast and Furious movie revived. I think people will be very surprised what becomes collectible and what doesn’t in the future. Want can far exceed need or rationale. Sometimes it has nothing to do with reason. The Subaru WRX could be a collectible car one day. The Viper has the right mix to hopefully do well but no one knows.

[Steve-Indy]

Well, Brian...let me be the first to bite:

The Viper is indeed an ass set...that is to say, one sets his/her ass in it and has fun driving.

Vipers and appreciation: We appreciate ours every day.

Any other approach, in my opinion, involves a high level of self delusion.

Any other questions??

Happy New Year to All...Viper on !!;

[MrCreosote]

I totally forgot about demographics. Gen Z is much different from even Mils. Z are more interested in safety and security. Young kids aren't into clothes like previous generations. I think Materialism and Collecting are on the way out. Every person in my generation had a kick-ass component stereo system. No interest. Even Home Theater. The HT Receiver is for us Luddites. The big seller is the convenient Sound Bar. No one cares about the crappy sonic quality of MP3's.

Society is now half virtual. People worship Kardashians and watch Reality TV shows. And there is Jerry Springer.

Kids that get college degrees are faced with $200k of debt if their parents don't pay for it.

But, like tulips - and stocks for that matter - intrinsic value is a tiny portion of valuation.

We're probably in a Materialism Bubble.

[Viper Red]

Well, I hope most of you know what you're talking about, cause in a 5 to 10 years time, I would love to buy all the cars I couldn't in the past!

[MrCreosote]

The Viper won't appreciate in value - because I have one.

If you want the Viper to go up in price, someone has got to buy my car (!)

[GTS Dean]

Every person in my generation had a kick-ass component stereo system.

Some of us still do. I spin vinyl and play my Maxell cassettes regularly.

[Bill W]

Well, Brian...let me be the first to bite:

The Viper is indeed an ass set...that is to say, one sets his/her ass in it and has fun driving.

Vipers and appreciation: We appreciate ours every day.

Any other approach, in my opinion, involves a high level of self delusion.

Any other questions??

Happy New Year to All...Viper on !!;

Hey Steve, that was pretty good! And thank you for all your help and advice since I bought my Viper last fall. As for assets: you are certainly an asset to the VOA. We are lucky to have you.
Happy New Year!
~Bill

[Steve-Indy]

Thanks, Bill...Happy New Year to You and Yours !!