Crap Antifreeze aint supposed to be there

[Lost me beer]

2016 GT with 3500 miles. 100% stock. Honestly babied miles too.
Took it for a 5 mile jaunt around the block so to speak. She gets driven at least once a month' but not much. Figured I would stop for gas. Smelled antifreeze outside but assumed it was the truck next to me. Get home back in the garage, turn off and get out. Smell is back. Hunt and hunt and hunt. Dont smell it through vents in cabin with heater, pax floor is dry, overflow tank full, no weeps or leaks anywhere... Until I see the pink at the front of the drivers side head gasket. Fork me runnin. At least its still under warranty and I have a great tech.
My tech says he has not seen this yet on a gen V. Anyone have this before on a gen V?
Troy
Hmmm, how much are H&C?! No wait, I like being married.

[ViperSRT]

Could it be coming from the front cover?

[swexlin]

Where am I looking in that pic? Everything looks dry and clean....?

[BlueAdder]

Where am I looking in that pic? Everything looks dry and clean....?

The pink part I guess.

[bluesrt]

Looks like it's coming from the head bolt

[quickster2]

Check the small nipple at the top of and above the water pump area. Sorry, I can't describe it better. It looks like a zerk grease fitting. I found a couple leaking in my past life. Can't say I have ever seen nor heard of a head gasket leak.

[Stealth78]

All this talk of small nipples and pink parts..... This thread sounds way more exciting than it really is! Sorry I can't be of help OP.

[ViperSRT]

3570335704
Does this leak seem similar? After looking it over one of the experts indicated he thought it was leakage by a front cover fastener that extends into the water jacket. Winter now so I will not know if that resolved it until Spring.

The wet screw is the one to the right of the hose in the picture below (the picture is upside down so looks like the left side here).
35705

[Lost me beer]

Will take it in wed. Just above the large pink area is a very small seepage at the head/block seam. Pretty sure it is from there and dripping down. I dont see it while under pressure tho. Still under manuf reg warranty, but hate to have any head/gasket work this early.
Troy

[Lost me beer]

3570335704
Does this leak seem similar? After looking it over one of the experts indicated he thought it was leakage by a front cover fastener that extends into the water jacket. Winter now so I will not know if that resolved it until Spring.

The wet screw is the one to the right of the hose in the picture below (the picture is upside down so looks like the left side here).
35705

I will know more wed and let u know. I hope it is, but mine sure looks like a head gasket. I will need to pressure test it to be sure.
Troy

[Arizona Vipers]

All this talk of small nipples and pink parts..... This thread sounds way more exciting than it really is! Sorry I can't be of help OP.

:t1509:

[ViperGeorge]

Well if it is a head gasket they need to check that the head and block surfaces are straight and not "warped" in any way.

[blingnoring]

The pink part I guess.

its all pink in the middle :)

[Lost me beer]

Update...

Tech found forward 2 head bolts vary loose. Head and block true. New gaskets and bolts and good to go. Whew.
Strange indeed. Wonderful QC at our fav UAW plant...
Troy

[ViperSRT]

I confirmed the head bolts are tightened by a multiple with monitoring. Very unusual to have a tightening issue, but obviously it is possible. Did they check your right bank head bolt torques (tightened with the same multiple)?

[Lost me beer]

Agreed, very unusual. Friday eve build I guess! And yea, he is gonna check the starbird bank too.
Troy

[Toxic]

35751
Just caught what appears to be the same problem on my car Wednesday night. Taking her in early next week. This shot is under the car with it on the lift.

[quickster2]

At least initially, it would be almost impossible to only partially tighten some head bolts at CAAP. As previously mentioned, it is a multiple head tool running down the bolts with a recording function tied to the engine S/N. The engine would not of passed to the next station until it passed the function. The day of the week would have no bearing on the build as with most all safety related items in a modern factory.

[ViperSRT]

Is it possible he was referring to the two screws in the circle at the top left? I see coolant stains in that region which would not be impacted by the primary head bolt torque. Also see what looks like reduced gasket pressure in that area (between the far left fastener and the doweled head bolt).
35755

[swexlin]

I can't see any of what you guys are looking at. I'm not making a joke. I see the pink stain on Toxic's photo, but I still couldn't see diddly on the OPs pic.

[AZTVR]

Friday eve build I guess!


At least initially, it would be almost impossible to only partially tighten some head bolts at CAAP. As previously mentioned, it is a multiple head tool running down the bolts with a recording function tied to the engine S/N. The engine would not of passed to the next station until it passed the function. The day of the week would have no bearing on the build as with most all safety related items in a modern factory.

Thanks, I thought that this process was done by a complicated machine and not by a person, subject to "Friday eve build" blues. It took me a while to find a video clip that I thought that I remembered seeing. Below is a screenshot. 35758

[Lost me beer]

I agree that it is def not a common issue, just that mine seemed to have it. I find it nearly impossible for a head bolt to back off and loosen if it was originally set to correct tq values. But who knows?
Swex, my orig pic...look near the middle of the pic right at the seam of the head and block. Very shiny, with pink stains.
Not completely sure, but I think it was right at the forward upper head bolt that was loose. That seems to be where all of the exterior stains are. I will verify tho.
Side note. Look what babying these things do during breakin... Only use Mobil premium, but still fairly babied at 3500 miles. Seems like a lot of carbon buildup on the top of the pistons to me. Guess I need to "drive" her more!
Troy

[Steve M]

Side note. Look what babying these things do during breakin... Only use Mobil premium, but still fairly babied at 3500 miles. Seems like a lot of carbon buildup on the top of the pistons to me. Guess I need to "drive" her more!
Troy

Do you run a catch can? If not, it might be time to consider one.

[Lost me beer]

Vipersrt...just verified with Alex, yes it was those upper bolts. Good news.
Steve... No, I dont. Would that keep carbon levels down? All stock motor, and no track. Didnt think I would benifit from one.
Troy

[swexlin]

I looked at the pic again, now I see it.

[ViperSRT]

Vipersrt...just verified with Alex, yes it was those upper bolts. Good news.
Steve... No, I dont. Would that keep carbon levels down? All stock motor, and no track. Didnt think I would benifit from one.
Troy

That makes more sense as those fasteners are not tightened via a multiple. On the down side modern manufacturing plants use torque monitoring on all fasteners, and those either did not have torque monitoring or the operator missed tightening some fasteners and the torque monitoring did not catch it. Happy you have a good guy (Alex) making the repairs. That would put me at ease.

[Steve M]

Vipersrt...just verified with Alex, yes it was those upper bolts. Good news.
Steve... No, I dont. Would that keep carbon levels down? All stock motor, and no track. Didnt think I would benifit from one.
Troy

In order to see if you'd really need one, you'd need to take a look inside your intake manifold and see if there was any oil film. These cars are known for passing oil through the PCV system straight back into the intake manifold, but that's usually only under heavy throttle/braking. If you have some passing through, it could be contributing to your carbon build up on the pistons. Did you get a chance to look in the intake ports in the heads by any chance when it was apart?

[ViperGeorge]

In order to see if you'd really need one, you'd need to take a look inside your intake manifold and see if there was any oil film. These cars are known for passing oil through the PCV system straight back into the intake manifold, but that's usually only under heavy throttle/braking. If you have some passing through, it could be contributing to your carbon build up on the pistons. Did you get a chance to look in the intake ports in the heads by any chance when it was apart?

Not to mention that oil has an octane rating of about 50.

[Steve M]

Not to mention that oil has an octane rating of about 50.

Yes, and that's the primary reason I fabbed up a catch can as the first mod after I bought my car many years ago. Gen 4s have a hard enough time with knock as it is...at least the Gen 5s have forged pistons.

[Lost me beer]

Haven't been able to see the intakes, but will get Alex to check it out. He really is one of the best techs around.
I guess I may go ahead and install a can. Have had them in other cars that get driven a bit harder.
Troy

[camarochevy1970]

Add another to the list. Saw this today doing my oil change. I didn't notice it in spring when I did the last one.
39931

[swexlin]

That seems like quite a bit. No spot on the garage floor? Mileage?

[camarochevy1970]

None on the floor. 16k miles

[ACRSNK]

Yikes

[swexlin]

Assuming you already checked hose clamps and coolant lines for leaks?

[camarochevy1970]

yep, those are dry, definitely looks like it is coming from around the base of the head. Assuming I have the same issue with not fully tightened head bolts like the OP. Waiting for the dealership to call me back to schedule the appointment

[Lost me beer]

U can put a socket on the front 2 bolts and see if they are loose. My tech said they were almost finger tight. Give ya piece of mind, or not!
Troy

[Gen5snake]

Add another to the list. Saw this today doing my oil change. I didn't notice it in spring when I did the last one.
39931

What year viper?

[camarochevy1970]

2017 Still under warranty, so goes to the dealer next Friday for them to look, and then figure out when they can fix it

[camarochevy1970]

So wanted to give an update on this. Dropped it off at the dealer last night for repair. Head bolts and gasket on the left side, as expected. Would have been done sooner, but it started snowing last fall when I was going to drop it off, and just now got to it and no salt on the roads.

[Gen5snake]

Would have been done sooner, but it started snowing last fall when I was going to drop it off, and just now got to it and no salt on the roads.

Just corona spores falling from the sky.;)

[SRT BILL]

So wanted to give an update on this. Dropped it off at the dealer last night for repair. Head bolts and gasket on the left side, as expected. Would have been done sooner, but it started snowing last fall when I was going to drop it off, and just now got to it and no salt on the roads.

Camarochevy, are they going to put in a new head gasket or just tighten it all up?

[viperman4125]

2017 Still under warranty, so goes to the dealer next Friday for them to look, and then figure out when they can fix it

This really sucks! A person spends all this money for a car, just to find out that it's not right. What the hell is that. Should not be any problems with a 100,000.00 + car and its new. That's how the Foreign Co.'s got there foot in the door here. ( USA ) Long time ago. They would NEVER stand for that, they would SHOOT that guy at the plant who built that car. Really, that's what happens. 1st and last time, Sorry to all you that have this issue.

[ViperGeorge]

This really sucks! A person spends all this money for a car, just to find out that it's not right. What the hell is that. Should not be any problems with a 100,000.00 + car and its new. That's how the Foreign Co.'s got there foot in the door here. ( USA ) Long time ago. They would NEVER stand for that, they would SHOOT that guy at the plant who built that car. Really, that's what happens. 1st and last time, Sorry to all you that have this issue.

Dude, not true! I have a friend with a McLaren on which the warranty has spent over $100,000 on problems and it still ain't right. Guy did buy two more McLarens' afterwards though, go figure. I have another friend that spent $13,000 on a Lambo to change some paddle shifter sensor. It was out of warranty at the time (2 years I think). They had to pull the engine and trans to change the sensor.

[camarochevy1970]

Camarochevy, are they going to put in a new head gasket or just tighten it all up?

New bolts and gasket. They had the head off as of end of day yesterday, so should start going back together today

[ViperGeorge]

This really sucks! A person spends all this money for a car, just to find out that it's not right. What the hell is that. Should not be any problems with a 100,000.00 + car and its new. That's how the Foreign Co.'s got there foot in the door here. ( USA ) Long time ago. They would NEVER stand for that, they would SHOOT that guy at the plant who built that car. Really, that's what happens. 1st and last time, Sorry to all you that have this issue.

By the way, I also had an Aston Martin DB7 GT which I purchased new in 2003 for $150,000. Car kept blowing the fuse for one engine controller that managed one side of the V12. It was just out of warranty which was only 2 years. Turned out it was due to a wire harness rubbing across a sharp metal edge and causing a short. Cost me a few grand even though it was clearly a manufacturing defect. That car also needed a new clutch after I valeted it once in NY (I know, but I had no choice in the matter.) That was with only 4,000 or so miles on the car and it cost me close to $5,000. The clutch was really hard to drive and I assume the valet just smoked it.

Bottom line is that all cars have issues whether they are $20,000 or $100,000. In fact I would argue the higher priced cars tend to be higher strung and live more on the edge. Given this they may have more issues not fewer. If you want a more reliable car by a Honda, I don't think you'll get the reliability you want from any high end car. Ok, sure you might hear that Ferrari owners don't have many problems, that might be true when the car sits in the garage and only has like 500 miles on it.

[viperman4125]

By the way, I also had an Aston Martin DB7 GT which I purchased new in 2003 for $150,000. Car kept blowing the fuse for one engine controller that managed one side of the V12. It was just out of warranty which was only 2 years. Turned out it was due to a wire harness rubbing across a sharp metal edge and causing a short. Cost me a few grand even though it was clearly a manufacturing defect. That car also needed a new clutch after I valeted it once in NY (I know, but I had no choice in the matter.) That was with only 4,000 or so miles on the car and it cost me close to $5,000. The clutch was really hard to drive and I assume the valet just smoked it.

Bottom line is that all cars have issues whether they are $20,000 or $100,000. In fact I would argue the higher priced cars tend to be higher strung and live more on the edge. Given this they may have more issues not fewer. If you want a more reliable car by a Honda, I don't think you'll get the reliability you want from any high end car. Ok, sure you might hear that Ferrari owners don't have many problems, that might be true when the car sits in the garage and only has like 500 miles on it.

Come on! We sold so few Vipers in the Gen V , that so many, so many have the same problems, leaking heads, with very few miles on them, Not like they drove it for 20 or 30 thousand miles. I am lucky that mine 06 is SOOO good. Never had an issue with my Gen I.

[ViperGeorge]

Come on! We sold so few Vipers in the Gen V , that so many, so many have the same problems, leaking heads, with very few miles on them, Not like they drove it for 20 or 30 thousand miles. I am lucky that mine 06 is SOOO good. Never had an issue with my Gen I.

You don't have the data to support your claim. It is all hearsay. I have two Gen 5s now, both with close to 20,000 miles on them. I also had a Gen 5 TA 2 which was also mostly trouble free. My Aston Martin DB7 GT was like one of 54 made so rarer than a Viper yet I had issues. Based on your math Aston Martin would have about the worst quality going. I'm not saying they do, I'm just saying that mine had some issues. In terms of Vipers, yes, some have blown engines but do you know how many of those blown engines were due to owner error?

In terms of a leaky head gasket, this is the first I've heard about this problem on a Gen 5 and I'm on this site everyday and I know many people with Gen 5s. Gen 1s had this issue I think but not Gen 5s as far as I know.

I was at the track with another Gen 5 owner a 14 TA. He was towed off the track with a bad bearing knock. I checked his oil and it didn't even show on the dipstick. I added two quarts and it still didn't show. So who's fault is it that he blew his engine. Not Dodge's I would say yet Dodge still replaced it under warranty. Many folks on here refuse to check the oil level the way the manual and the engineers say to check it. They think they know better. Checking it cold is the right way they say, they are wrong! My 15 TA 2 would have up to a 2 quart variation between cold reading and warm after engine shutdown. If the oil in my TA 2 had been in the safe zone when cold it would have actually been 2 quarts low if checked properly.

If you remove all the owner caused problems what would the failure rate be? I don't have any idea. Yes, Dodge had issues with debris in the blocks of some cars but they did R28 to check filters and look for debris. They added a block cleaning station at the factory. They also extended warranties to 10 years/100,000 miles on any car within the range of VINs with the problem. My current 14 GTS has the extended warranty on it and it has 20,000 miles on it. It runs great. Bottom line is if you don't think a Gen 5 is reliable for a $100,000 car then don't buy one. Simple.

[BSLSK]

It is a low production car. Reliability is not really the top selling point or even top 10 for that matter. Even if every single owner of a given production generation complained about defects and poor reliability, it'd still be less than just 3% of camry sales in just one year.

[Jack B]

George - a little support:

I had both a Gen1 and a Gen2 and loved both of them, but:

1. The Gen1's had the head gasket issue where virtually all the cars eventually had them replaced.

2. The early Gen2's had to have the intake manifold gaskets replaced, on a more serious note, the majority had the frame recall/fix.

3. The Gen3's (early run) had the valve seats incorrectly ground and had to have the heads pulled.

4. i personally know of some early Gen5 failures that had engines replaced due to low oil levels. I am sure the claims did not state "low oil level". Furthermore, we do not need to beat the "reading the dipstick" problem any further, you are right, many owners did not read it at all or read it incorrectly.

This is not a condemnation, merely fact. I could go further with Gen1 and Gen2 problems, however, my Gen2 will always be my favorite along with my Gen5.



You don't have the data to support your claim. It is all hearsay. I have two Gen 5s now, both with close to 20,000 miles on them. I also had a Gen 5 TA 2 which was also mostly trouble free. My Aston Martin DB7 GT was like one of 54 made so rarer than a Viper yet I had issues. Based on your math Aston Martin would have about the worst quality going. I'm not saying they do, I'm just saying that mine had some issues. In terms of Vipers, yes, some have blown engines but do you know how many of those blown engines were due to owner error?

In terms of a leaky head gasket, this is the first I've heard about this problem on a Gen 5 and I'm on this site everyday and I know many people with Gen 5s. Gen 1s had this issue I think but not Gen 5s as far as I know.

I was at the track with another Gen 5 owner a 14 TA. He was towed off the track with a bad bearing knock. I checked his oil and it didn't even show on the dipstick. I added two quarts and it still didn't show. So who's fault is it that he blew his engine. Not Dodge's I would say yet Dodge still replaced it under warranty. Many folks on here refuse to check the oil level the way the manual and the engineers say to check it. They think they know better. Checking it cold is the right way they say, they are wrong! My 15 TA 2 would have up to a 2 quart variation between cold reading and warm after engine shutdown. If the oil in my TA 2 had been in the safe zone when cold it would have actually been 2 quarts low if checked properly.

If you remove all the owner caused problems what would the failure rate be? I don't have any idea. Yes, Dodge had issues with debris in the blocks of some cars but they did R28 to check filters and look for debris. They added a block cleaning station at the factory. They also extended warranties to 10 years/100,000 miles on any car within the range of VINs with the problem. My current 14 GTS has the extended warranty on it and it has 20,000 miles on it. It runs great. Bottom line is if you don't thing a Gen 5 is reliable for a $100,000 car then don't buy one. Simple.

[ViperJon]

George feels that YOUR issues aren't valid because George hasn't had them.

[ViperGeorge]

George feels that YOUR issues aren't valid because George hasn't had them.

Don't put words in my mouth. That is not what I said and you damn well know it if you know how to read. I said that I have not heard a leaky head gasket as being a common problem on a Gen 5. There are other problems which are more common. Blown rear windows due to defroster, water infiltration to the door node on model year 15, leaky oil lines, oil in air box until R29 was done, and maybe more. Blown head gaskets I have not heard of before. I am not saying the OP's issue isn't valid! I am saying that to my knowledge it isn't common. Learn how to read!

[camarochevy1970]

Just got a call from the dealer, car is done and ready to come home. Bad weather expected here today, so going to leave it until tomorrow

[darbgnik]

George - a little support:

I had both a Gen1 and a Gen2 and loved both of them, but:

1. The Gen1's had the head gasket issue where virtually all the cars eventually had them replaced.

2. The early Gen2's had to have the intake manifold gaskets replaced, on a more serious note, the majority had the frame recall/fix.

3. The Gen3's (early run) had the valve seats incorrectly ground and had to have the heads pulled.

4. i personally know of some early Gen5 failures that had engines replaced due to low oil levels. I am sure the claims did not state "low oil level". Furthermore, we do not need to beat the "reading the dipstick" problem any further, you are right, many owners did not read it at all or read it incorrectly.

This is not a condemnation, merely fact. I could go further with Gen1 and Gen2 problems, however, my Gen2 will always be my favorite along with my Gen5.

Can't forget the early Gen 3's had balancer bolts that backed out. And they were in danger of blowing the engine due to oil starvation on a road course(which was remedied by the swinging pickup tube in the Gen 4). I personally ran an extra quart of oil in my Gen 3 when on the racetrack, back in the day....

[Thawk97]

I just noticed a drip coming from this area on mine tonight as I was working underneath - looks like it's coming from the lower front corner of the head on the driver's side. My car should have the extended drivetrain warranty (2014) which I assume would cover this - but I've never tried it and will need to ask others from my area if any of the dealers are competent.

[Lost me beer]

If u have a torque wrench, I would try just re torquing them down in sequence. Then monitor it and see if it still leaks. Good chance it may stop it.
Troy

[Thawk97]

Anyone have that sequence for GenV? - did a quick search and couldn't find it on my first few tries

[Hootie]

I think this is what your looking for. If not let me know I'll dig through the tech manual some more.
https://i.ibb.co/Br1B3v0/1597508551654-Head-Bolts.jpg

[Hootie]

I don't know if it matters (unlikely) but this screenshot above is from the 2013 tech manual.

[Steve M]

If u have a torque wrench, I would try just re torquing them down in sequence. Then monitor it and see if it still leaks. Good chance it may stop it.
Troy

The bolts are torque to yield. The question is whether or not they were ever torqued properly to begin with since they are not reusable. To be safe, you'd want to start with new bolts.

[AZTVR]

The bolts are torque to yield. The question is whether or not they were ever torqued properly to begin with since they are not reusable. To be safe, you'd want to start with new bolts.

I think that they are only talking about the cylinder head tappet gallery bolts, numbers 13-20, in the posted diagram. Are they torque to yield?

If the warranty is still in force, I would let the dealership take care of it and I wouldn't touch it and risk losing any evidence or future warranty validity if there are further issues.

[Steve M]

I think that they are only talking about the cylinder head tappet gallery bolts, numbers 13-20, in the posted diagram. Are they torque to yield?

If the warranty is still in force, I would let the dealership take care of it and I wouldn't touch it and risk losing any evidence or future warranty validity if there are further issues.

#13-20 do not appear to be TTY bolts based on the diagram posted above.

[Lost me beer]

I agree. The diagram says 95 inch lbs., after torquing 1-12 to spec.
Troy