Hood Gaps!!!

[GhostStalker27]

Alright that's it, I can't take it anymore! I need to fix the crazy amount of space between my front fascia and hood.

Look at this thing!
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140223_213757_zps6232d591.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140223_213757_zps6232d591.jpg.html)
I swear it's getting bigger.


I think I need to lift the headlight then pivot the front fascia up to fill the gap better. My question is has anyone attempted this? I've search all the Viper forums, everyone's familiar with the problem, but no luck finding someone who has experience fixing it. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

[slitherv10]

Is that the original hood?

Looks like if you tried to adjust the hood or headlight, you would still have the larger gap from hood to front fascia. If you tried to adjust just the front fascia it looks like you would have the light gap.

The gap between your hood and sill also looks a smidge off. looks like the gap gets larger it moves towards the front of the car.

I think the hood is the culprit here or, just move the headlight back a smidge and live with the larger gap on the side

[GhostStalker27]

Not original hood

This is the car from the front, it doesn't look nearly as bad
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/ACRRRR_zpsd4d04925.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/ACRRRR_zpsd4d04925.jpg.html)

And from the other side, I can live with this gap, just not the one on the other side
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/IMG_20140223_213743_zps14eab7b6.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/IMG_20140223_213743_zps14eab7b6.jpg.html)

[mjorgensen]

You are going to have to adjust the radiator support angles and height to move the fascia, rotate back and up. Getting gaps right takes a lot of adjustments, you will likely spend 8+ hours trying different shims etc. to get it even close. Check for loose mounting brackets first on the drivers side and mis matched shim stacks. The front frame horns could have been tweaked at some point causing the change.

[GhostStalker27]

You are going to have to adjust the radiator support angles and height to move the fascia, rotate back and up. Getting gaps right takes a lot of adjustments, you will likely spend 8+ hours trying different shims etc. to get it even close. Check for loose mounting brackets first on the drivers side and mis matched shim stacks. The front frame horns could have been tweaked at some point causing the change.

Thanks morgensen - Few questions

Will I be able to adjust the radiator support with the car on the ground?
Do I need to detach and adjust other things to move the radiator support?
As far as shims do I just pick up standard Auto body shims?
What's involved with swiveling the back part of the headlight up?

Thanks again

[mjorgensen]

Thanks morgensen - Few questions

Will I be able to adjust the radiator support with the car on the ground?
Do I need to detach and adjust other things to move the radiator support?
As far as shims do I just pick up standard Auto body shims?
What's involved with swiveling the back part of the headlight up?

Thanks again

You will have to remove and replace the fascia many times to get things right, but it can be done on the ground. The shims you will see when you get the fascia off they are wide slotted shims, you can probably find something close, the factory ones are pricey. The shims under the radiator support will raise either side independently and there is a bracket in the front fender well that attaches the support to the frame, it is slotted and quite often found loose or bent.

[Bugman Jeff]

I've done it, I spend around 12 hours doing both sides. It's not hard, just tedious(and mine was pretty screwed up when I got it). For the corner gap, there's a strut that goes from the frame to the fascia corner. You'll have to take the headlight out to get to it. Loosen the strut and the closing panel/wheel arch bolts, shove the fascia back into place, and tighten everything back down. The headlight housing has studs on the bottom. Once the fascia is where you want it, use body shims, washers, ect to shim up the back of the headlight and get it in place. The piece that the headlight light assembly mounts to also has some wiggle room. Everything you move will move something someplace else, so check all your fascia gaps before you get everything completely back together. Mine's still not perfect, but I was tired of dicking around with it and it needs to come apart for paint later anyway. I didn't need to move my radiator support.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xlnsYU1xSQ0/UfXqKOoqfqI/AAAAAAAAACo/Kl9sGoXfwcY/s1600/image008.jpg

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1150837_511615385584898_960475759_n.jpg

[AZTVR]

I can imagine how much a body shop would charge to do that ! Looks perfect from here ! ( Of course that gap between the fascia & parking lot curb needs adjusting if you are going to keep the rest of the gaps like they are now , LOL ! )



https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1150837_511615385584898_960475759_n.jpg

[GhostStalker27]

Bugman Jeff, looks good. In the first picture the hood doesn't even seem closed all the way, looks like you had your work cut out for you. If I can get it so it looks like pic #2 - I'll be a happy camper.

[Bugman Jeff]

The fascia was waaay off when I got it. Not only was the hood closed all the way, the latch and bump stop were adjusted all the way down. The second pic was while I was still learning how long the nose was, and I still had like 3/8" between the curb and the fascia :D

[GhostStalker27]

The fascia was waaay off when I got it. Not only was the hood closed all the way, the latch and bump stop were adjusted all the way down. The second pic was while I was still learning how long the nose was, and I still had like 3/8" between the curb and the fascia :D

I didn't see this new pic til now, it looks damn near perfect! So in the end you made it look that good by tweaking the headlights and front fascia, and no hood adjustment or radiator housing? good stuff man. Both sides look that good?

[Bugman Jeff]

Correct, no hood adjustment, or rad support adjustment. All bumper/fascia, closing panel, and headlight adjustment. The other side isn't quite as good. I could have spent more time working on the headlight fit, but knowing it still needs bodywork, I was to the "just get it together and be done with it" stage in my motivation. Here's the other side:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-txowtQ5bmUY/Uj5E1o5JmyI/AAAAAAAAAOE/uE9yw_FAtew/s1600/SAM_1204.JPG

[Matt M, Pa]

On my 2000, the driver's side gap looks very similar to the original poster's. I bought the car new and it wasn't that way when it was new....it seems to have migrated over the years. The car has never been hit.

Any ideas on where to start?

[AZTVR]

On my 2000, the driver's side gap looks very similar to the original poster's. I bought the car new and it wasn't that way when it was new....it seems to have migrated over the years. The car has never been hit.

Any ideas on where to start?

I would take note of Mark Jorgensen's comments about commonly finding a bracket loose, and check that out first, especially if you have been the only driver and know that you never bottomed out the fascia such that you would have bent something.

[GBS]

Nice Job Bugman Jeff! Originally your gap was about the worst I've seen. My driver's side gap is too wide and bugs me. If there was someone in southwest Florida I new would fix it right I would take it in. Maybe if I quite working so many hours, I'll try to fix it myself. It would have been great if you took some pics of what you did.

[City]

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1150837_511615385584898_960475759_n.jpg
Geeze, Jeff! Do you HAVE to rest your chin on the curb???!!! That pic is painful to view.

Ghost,

You're not far from Tator. Not sure how you value your time, but you might give him a call. His "hour" is usually worth about 10 of mine. Just sayin...

[GhostStalker27]

Ghost,

You're not far from Tator. Not sure how you value your time, but you might give him a call. His "hour" is usually worth about 10 of mine. Just sayin...


Funny you say that, just picked my car up from Chuck's sunday. I asked him about it but there was a list of other things that needed to be done, so we decided to save it for another time. But now that I have it home and looking at it again I realize how bad it is. So I'm gonna try to take it on myself.

[SandViper]

Ok, so who has perfected the repair for this? As I am a novice and have no idea how to even begin to repair this. mine looks exactly like post number one its a 97 blue/w white. and with me work being gone 15 days at a time and 4 days off I will never have the time to ever try the repair.

[GBS]

With all the Gen II & I hood cap problems I would think (or perhaps I wish) someone would come up with detailed instructions with pictures, diagrams etc. on correcting the problem. For my 02 ACR I have every manual available (Service Manual, Body Diagnostic Procedures Manual, Chassis Diagnostic Procedures Manual & Powertrain Diagnostics Procedures Manual) that I'm aware of and nothing deals with the problem. I would be willing to pay of a manual just dealing with correctly the hood gap problems. I also wish we had a dealer like Tators or Woodhouse in southwest Florida. The closest Dodge dealer to my house can't even fix my Dodge Caravan right.

[Bugman Jeff]

[QUOTE=City;34521]Geeze, Jeff! Do you HAVE to rest your chin on the curb???!!! That pic is painful to view.

/QUOTE]

It didn't scrape, I still had 3/8" :) The bottom's all scraped up from the previous owner anyway, but I made a chin guard for it none the less.

When I take the car apart for paint, I'll try to get some good how-to pics. Don't know why I didn't think of it last time.

[GhostStalker27]

I've adjusted both the bolts seen here, but it didn't make a difference..am I not adjusting in the proper area?
3678
3679

[GBS]

From what I read it's going to take more than adjusting the 2 bolts shown. I've never done it so I don't have the answers. I would love to see a detailed post with pictures.

[GhostStalker27]

From what I read it's going to take more than adjusting the 2 bolts shown. I've never done it so I don't have the answers. I would love to see a detailed post with pictures.

I adjusted about 8 bolts, 4 of which aren't in the picture. There just wasn't much room if any for adjustment. I think the problem is deeper. Hope I can be the one to get up a detailed post with pictures - I'm not giving up on this - just ran out of time . ...I think I need to get the car lifted and get the wheels off so I can see what's in there. I can say this much...it's all about getting the back of the fascia where he 5 hex bolts (on each side) inside the wheel well are - to move up about 3/4". The front of the fascia and the hood are good (this seems to be the problem I see with most..).

[ViperTony]

I have to wonder, in some cases, that the problem is not related to adjusting items but the actual hood itself. I've seen vipers with hood gap issues that suggests the hood is warped or "twisting" as they get older, a defect maybe?

[GhostStalker27]

I have to wonder, in some cases, that the problem is not related to adjusting items but the actual hood itself. I've seen vipers with hood gap issues that suggests the hood is warped or "twisting" as they get older, a defect maybe?


That's a interesting point, wonder if there's any remedy for it?

[GBS]

In my case I don't think the hood is warped. The gap on the passenger side is good but the gap on the drivers side drives me crazy. The cars itself looks like it just came out of the showroom.
3705

[GhostStalker27]

In my case I don't think the hood is warped. The gap on the passenger side is good but the gap on the drivers side drives me crazy. The cars itself looks like it just came out of the showroom.
3705

GBS that's funny - I was looking at your car in the pic thread and thought to myself 'daaymn that acr is perfect, no gap whats so ever'.. now I see the drivers side and it's mutual problem - you're car's still a stunner regardless!. I'm surprised more people haven't discussed this because I've seen it on a lot of gen2s

[coupe]

Mine was perfect when I got the car (GTS) but after doing a radiator swap and reinstalling the bumper/hood, I too have a slightly wider gap across the front between the hood and bumper cover. The hood fitment seems perfect, so my plan is to loosen the cover and move it around a bit to see if I can make up the gap, then shim as necessary.

[ront/10]

When I purchased my Gen 1, about 5 years ago, the hood gaps were perfect. Now my drivers side gap is twice the size of the passenger side. Car has never been hit and is otherwise perfect. Would love to know what caused it and how to fix it!

[ViperTony]

Mine was perfect when I got the car (GTS) but after doing a radiator swap and reinstalling the bumper/hood, I too have a slightly wider gap across the front between the hood and bumper cover. The hood fitment seems perfect, so my plan is to loosen the cover and move it around a bit to see if I can make up the gap, then shim as necessary.

In your case, it's likely that the shims under the lip (top of the bumper cover in front of the intake) that bolts on to the bumper cover are missing. Mine fell out when I removed my fascia but luckily I noticed it before I pit the fascia back on.

[ViperTony]

When I purchased my Gen 1, about 5 years ago, the hood gaps were perfect. Now my drivers side gap is twice the size of the passenger side. Car has never been hit and is otherwise perfect. Would love to know what caused it and how to fix it!

This is the case I'm talking about. Whereby the gaps are fine on one side of the viper, they're fine between the hood and fascia but are off on the other side as if that whole side of the Viper was bent. Which is not the case especially if there's no damage. Taking apart the front of the car to adjust a dozen bolts doesn't seem right. How does half of the front end of the Viper lose adjustment like that. Odd.

[GhostStalker27]

This is the case I'm talking about. Whereby the gaps are fine on one side of the viper, they're fine between the hood and fascia but are off on the other side as if that whole side of the Viper was bent. Which is not the case especially if there's no damage. Taking apart the front of the car to adjust a dozen bolts doesn't seem right. How does half of the front end of the Viper lose adjustment like that. Odd.

Could the torquing of the engine cause it to become uneven over time, sorta like what happens to dual exhaust.

[GBS]

I know my car was not in any kind of wreck and it only has 5400 miles on it. Somehow the drivers side has come out of alignment over time. I know it's a common problem and can be fixed. I don't trust the local Dodge dealer's in southwest Florida. Half the time they can't fix my Dodge Caravan right. Even though I have to travel a lot on business, so it's hard to find time to even drive my cars, I would be happy to try and fix it I had some instructions and pictures to go by. Owners who live close to Tator or Woodhouse are lucky. Maybe the Viper Wizard will down to southwest Florida on vacation and just happen to stop by? :)

[ViperTony]

Could the torquing of the engine cause it to become uneven over time, sorta like what happens to dual exhaust.

I was being sarcastic. :anonymous: Point being that I don't believe the car gets torqued but rather the hood itself. Unless of course there's accident history but I'm not talking about those situations. I'll have to find photos to describe what I'm talking about.

[GhostStalker27]

Ok so after working on this thing all day saturday and getting no where. I went back to it again tonight. Good results...no. Better...yes

First remove your front fascia - great how-to here (http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/80-Front-Fascia-Removal-GEN-II?p=37958#post37958) from LifeIsGood

After removing the front fascia, look under the headlight and study how the thing is held together then (loosened the bolts circled in green)
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140308_132330_zps4bdde457.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140308_132330_zps4bdde457.jpg.html)

Then inside the wheel well (loosened the bolts circled in green), turn the wheel - makes it much easier
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140310_210157_zps96d92891.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140310_210157_zps96d92891.jpg.html)

Now loosen or remove the wing nuts on the wheel well - (circled in green again) (sorry for the bad pic - its all I had)
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140302_201048_zps4440be3a.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140302_201048_zps4440be3a.jpg.html)

Now you should be able to move the front corner support up and down a bit. Jack it up with whatever - nothing to harsh - I used wood
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140310_210141_zpse84d9dae.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140310_210141_zpse84d9dae.jpg.html)

Go around tightening down the bolts, I used shims in spots I felt needed them (you'll have to judge that for yourself). But for example I used one in the wheel well on the bottom bolt that's attached to the frame.

Before:
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140223_213757_zps6232d591.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140223_213757_zps6232d591.jpg.html)

After:
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j400/ghoststalker27/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140310_234107_zps1111b0ea.jpg (http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/ghoststalker27/media/99%20Dodge%20Viper%20GTS%20ACR/IMG_20140310_234107_zps1111b0ea.jpg.html)


Not a huge difference but I'll take it for now...and yes my wheels are now anthracite grey and I change the clear side marker back to orange..

[GBS]

Not a huge difference but I'll take it for now...and yes my wheels are now anthracite grey and I change the clear side marker back to orange..

It definitely looks better! Thanks for the pictures and write up. I hope I can get my 2002 adjusted to an acceptable gap.

[AutoformSteve]

Here is my two cents for what it's worth...the radiator saddle sits on top of the lower frame horns and has a rubber centering mount as well as a shim stack...amounts vary on all cars. the Radiator Saddle is bolted to the frame on the sides of upper frame sections. Typically one can access these (if you know where you are headed) by the access hole in the wheel well. Loosen these bolts and jack up the radiator saddle...kind of where the wood blocks are on one of the pictures above. You will need to loosen the under car section of the front fascia to access the lower frame horn area to add the needed shims to hold the whole thing up again.
My experience tells me that those shims can rattle out in time causing the saddle to lower and sometimes move forward a little, thus causing the headlights to lower in the rear which creates a gap between the hood and Headlight and the fascia to hood gap. There shouldn't be a need to adjust all of the other points...they usually stay in place.. just bend a little. Sometimes the little sheet metal angle brackets bend (the ones in the wheel well) if they look like they are bent a little...that is the tip off of the saddle moving. Loosen these as well when doing all of this. After the lower saddle points are re shimmed...you can then re tighten the side mount bolts.3734

[TitleMine]

Given how unbelievably common this issue is, it's woeful that better documentation for this job doesn't exist online. I'm thinking that with the weather getting warmer, I'll make an HD video with DSLR photos of me manipulating the fascia as a guide, since my one corner is a bit out of whack (looks like OP's "after" picture"). I'll post here when it's done.

[GhostStalker27]

3734

I did notice shims in between the lower shoe horn and radiator saddle. The drivers side shims were pushed out towards the nose. They were rubber shims - does that sound right?

If I can access the bolt that connects the lower shoe horn and radiator saddle without taking off the front fascia (for the 3rd time haha) that'd be great. Something tells me I need to get the car on jacks to really get in there (my cars lowered quite a bit)

[AutoformSteve]

They are a rubber fiberous shims...if they were pushed out towards the front... that kind of shows that area is moving around.
You probably will need to put it on jack stands to comfortably get at the bottom.

[ront/10]

They are a rubber fiberous shims...if they were pushed out towards the front... that kind of shows that area is moving around.
You probably will need to put it on jack stands to comfortably get at the bottom.

When you see my car for roof/spoiler install next month, any pointers on my hood gap would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Ron

[GhostStalker27]

I've attempted this a few times now and what I think works the best is - loosen every single bolt that holds the radiator support to the frame. Then take your jack, some wood - for spreading out the force of the jack, and slowly jack up the radiator support , dont over do it. After you get it where you want it. tighten everything, place shims where ya think there needed

BEFORE:
7369
7368


AFTER:
7366
7367

[GBS]

Looks much better! I still need to adjust my gap. Between working too many hours and doing renovations on my house I haven't had much time to even drive my cars. I hope I can find time to get to it soon.

[GhostStalker27]

Looks much better! I still need to adjust my gap. Between working too many hours and doing renovations on my house I haven't had much time to even drive my cars. I hope I can find time to get to it soon.

Thanks, I'm in the same boat- took me while to find the time to tackle this - you can see the tile saw in the bg of my last pic. I'd work on the viper one night then the bathroom the next..Viper got most of my attention haha..bathroom is half done