Oil Pressure Dropping

[SINIS7R]

The oil pressure is dropping when I accelerate with medium to heavy pedal. Is this normal? No codes were thrown.

The pressure at start up is around 50 and then after warm up goes down to mid 20s (this seems low too).
I checked the oil level and it's all good.

[Steve M]

That should not be happening IMO. Could be a bad oil pressure sensor/sender, or worse. A dealer with a competent Viper tech would be my next stop.

[swexlin]

I bet it's the sensor. Pressure should go up as you accelerate. After my car is warm, I've seen pressure as low as high 20s on a warm summer day at idle. That's normal, as least for 0W 40.

These sensors go bad across the FCA line of vehicles, to my understanding it's somewhat common.

[SINIS7R]

I bet it's the sensor. Pressure should go up as you accelerate. After my car is warm, I've seen pressure as low as high 20s on a warm summer day at idle. That's normal, as least for 0W 40.

These sensors go bad across the FCA line of vehicles, to my understanding it's somewhat common.

Okay that's what I was thinking. I found an old post that sort of had the same issue. Surprised the 2017 model didn't fix this issue.

[swexlin]

Okay that's what I was thinking. I found an old post that sort of had the same issue. Surprised the 2017 model didn't fix this issue.

It's not Viper-specific - many vehicles in the FCA line (cars Jeeps, etc) all use the same sensor, for years, and they go bad. At least that's what my Viper tech tells me. And what I've seen on other forums.

[Jack B]

Opinion - do not drive it or start it, park it in your garage and change the oil pressure sensor. The installation is simple and you will know immediately if it was the sensor.

[Voice of Reason]

When my sensor went bad it went BAD. Like it showed 100 at idle and -1 any other time bad. If you’re seeing a gradual drop with rpm I wonder if it’s more than just a sensor.

[SilverACR]

Do what Jack B said. Don’t chance making a yuge mistake. If it’s not the sensor you do not want to add damage. A rebuild is a lot cheaper if you don’t grenade it. I have seen people chance things like this and send rods through blocks, though not in a viper. (A few of SBCs and a couple of Ford small blocks which flat split in half)

[dewilmoth]

When my sensor went bad it went BAD. Like it showed 100 at idle and -1 any other time bad. If you’re seeing a gradual drop with rpm I wonder if it’s more than just a sensor.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[swexlin]

These guys make sense. Change the sensor, or have it flatbedded to your dealer, just to be safe.

[SINIS7R]

Should not have drove it. I just was too excited since I just purchased the car. Car died going 65 on the highway. I have a appointment booked at Dodge dealership when it gets back to Michigan.

[swexlin]

Should not have drove it. I just was too excited since I just purchased the car. Car died going 65 on the highway. I have a appointment booked at Dodge dealership when it gets back to Michigan.

Oh crap. Maybe I missed it, but what year car, and how many miles on it when you bought it? So it died, and you needed a flatbed? Where is the car now?

[SINIS7R]

It's a 2017 SRT and is at 8125 and I bought it with 7930. I'm having it shipped back to Michigan from Florida. But I'm currently on the side of a highway waiting for the semi to pick it up. Hopefully it will all be covered under warranty

[RedTanRT/10]

Any idea why the engine died? Did you check the oil level after seeing the pressure drop? Or after it died?

[swexlin]

It's a 2017 SRT and is at 8125 and I bought it with 7930. I'm having it shipped back to Michigan from Florida. But I'm currently on the side of a highway waiting for the semi to pick it up. Hopefully it will all be covered under warranty

O right, I remember your thread about buying this car now. So you juuusst bought it? How about taking it back to the selling dealer and saying WTF? You didn't even get it home.

[SINIS7R]

The oil level last night when I was done driving it was fine. It was in the safe zone. And I didn't get a chance to check after it died. I have a Viper tech looking at it on Monday. I'll keep posting updates..

[swexlin]

Thanks, please keep us posted. Was there a service history available when you bought the car? I hate hearing issues like this.

[SINIS7R]

I bought it from a private seller through eBay. So if for some reason it's not covered I'm going to have a fight with eBay. Yah I had all the history of the vehicle before I bought it. There was a vacuum leak that popped up a couple times, last occurred at 5600 miles. Then there were two oil changes. With the last oil change a tire was replaced. And that's all there was in the service history.

[SilverACR]

Sorry to hear. Did it make what you could describe as an engine failure noise? Wishful thinking from me and most others on here would be an electrical gremlin that can be solved cheaply.

Best of luck.

[Martin]

Geez, a '17 with that many miles and it just now gives up the ghost? Really sorry to hear that - hopefully it is something electrical, but it doesn't sound like it. Things like this are my worst nightmare - buying a car out of state, driving it home, and having the thing go kaput during the trip.

So, no codes, no weird noises right before it died? Previous owner claims that the oil pressure issue never surfaced before? Any oil analyses ever done on it?

[SINIS7R]

Geez, a '17 with that many miles and it just now gives up the ghost? Really sorry to hear that - hopefully it is something electrical, but it doesn't sound like it. Things like this are my worst nightmare - buying a car out of state, driving it home, and having the thing go kaput during the trip.

So, no codes, no weird noises right before it died? Previous owner claims that the oil pressure issue never surfaced before? Any oil analyses ever done on it?

There were no visible codes before it died but engine light went on right when it died and oil pressure light was flashing red. I really thought getting a 2017 I would be out of this mess!

[ky13]

Do you have an OBD2 scanner? They're cheap, if you don't (this is what I have used on all of my (OBD2 compliant) cars: https://www.amazon.com/OBD2-OBDII-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner/dp/B01HXGX8V6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1542826080&sr=8-4&keywords=elm327+obd2+bluetooth )

[Jack B]

The oil level last night when I was done driving it was fine. It was in the safe zone. And I didn't get a chance to check after it died. I have a Viper tech looking at it on Monday. I'll keep posting updates..

A little heads up, this is no minor issue, check both sides of the dipsrick.The low side is the correct side.

[Jack B]

There were no visible codes before it died but engine light went on right when it died and oil pressure light was flashing red. I really thought getting a 2017 I would be out of this mess!

If the code is not emissions related, it might not show on the dash. The light would come on, the code might not

[ky13]

Oil pressure ODB codes that I was able to find:

P0521 Oil Pressure Switch Rationality
P0524 Oil Pressure Too Low
P0523 Oil Pressure Circuit High

[SINIS7R]

Oil pressure ODB codes that I was able to find:

P0521 Oil Pressure Switch Rationality
P0524 Oil Pressure Too Low
P0523 Oil Pressure Circuit High

Yah I have a scanner but didn't bring it on my trip. I thought this 2017 was going to be all set to go and enjoy. I will let you know what the techs find out.

[SINIS7R]

So wanted to give everyone an update. When the viper tech looked into the engine knock, he found a spun bearing.
It was all covered under warranty so I got a new engine!! ;):drive::D
The only question I have now, is how to properly break the engine in? I was planning on driving the car 100, 500, and then 1000 miles and changing the oil at those intervals. Any thoughts?
3573735738
35739

[SRT BILL]

Happy to hear this is working out for you. What an ugly experience to be going through with your new Viper. Now with a new engine you will have yourself some fun!

[swexlin]

Sorry to hear but wow, you got a new engine quickly!! Some people I remember posting here in the past waited weeks....

Perhaps FCA has a stockpile now ready to ship out. And your dealer got it installed quick as well.

[Martin]

That worked out well - got a decent deal on the car, and now you basically have a "new" car for the price.

[SilverACR]

I’m glad to hear that the warranty came through. I would follow your techs advice on break in as long as you trust them. You could also call the viper techs at Roanoke, VE, and woodhouse for their recommendations.

[Jack B]

Can you clarify the pictures:

1. Are the pictures of two bearing caps or a broken rod and a cap.

2. Did the tech give you an explanation of why the mating surfaces of the rod had damage, it almost looks like the rod bolts came loose, although they could have come loose after the fact.

[SINIS7R]

Can you clarify the pictures:

1. Are the pictures of two bearing caps or a broken rod and a cap.

2. Did the tech give you an explanation of why the mating surfaces of the rod had damage, it almost looks like the rod bolts came loose, although they could have come loose after the fact.

The picture is the bearing caps for number 9 and 10 cylinders. One showing the bearing completely gone and the other showing some severe scoring.
Unfortunately, there was no explanation of what caused the bearing to spin out. I would love to know as well but not going to push since I was taken care of quickly.

[SINIS7R]

Sorry to hear but wow, you got a new engine quickly!! Some people I remember posting here in the past waited weeks....

Perhaps FCA has a stockpile now ready to ship out. And your dealer got it installed quick as well.

When I was talking to SRT customer support, they mentioned they have like 300+ crate engines sitting in a warehouse!!

[SINIS7R]

Happy to hear this is working out for you. What an ugly experience to be going through with your new Viper. Now with a new engine you will have yourself some fun!
Yah I can't wait till spring time to drive it! But I got some mods to keep me busy over the winter :D


That worked out well - got a decent deal on the car, and now you basically have a "new" car for the price.
In the end, I feel like I can look at this as an interesting story of buying my first viper!

[SRT_BluByU]

I’d break it in per the recommendations in the owners manual.

[ViperSRT]

And watch the oil level closely.

[chris_lee]

Quick turn on that new motor. That’s reassuring!

[Jack B]

The picture is the bearing caps for number 9 and 10 cylinders. One showing the bearing completely gone and the other showing some severe scoring.
Unfortunately, there was no explanation of what caused the bearing to spin out. I would love to know as well but not going to push since I was taken care of quickly.

It is still interesting that the bolted machine surfaces have damage.

[ViperSRT]

It is still interesting that the bolted machine surfaces have damage.

The rods are cracked and not machined on the joint surface. Hard to tell in this picture but the cracked surface has shiny spots (both of them shown) that could be indicative of being seated incorrectly, which would cause excessive bearing clearance and reduced bearing crush.

[ViperJon]

When I was talking to SRT customer support, they mentioned they have like 300+ crate engines sitting in a warehouse!!

Oh good lord.....guess they are expecting a lot more replacements needed. Gulp.

[Jack B]

The rods are cracked and not machined on the joint surface. Hard to tell in this picture but the cracked surface has shiny spots (both of them shown) that could be indicative of being seated incorrectly, which would cause excessive bearing clearance and reduced bearing crush.

That is what I was questioning

[swexlin]

Oh good lord.....guess they are expecting a lot more replacements needed. Gulp.

Jon, good to hear that they are prepared, just in case. As an owner of an early build (April 2013) build car, which passed R28 and got the Powertrain warranty extension, it eases my concerns. Since the car is out of production, warranty or no warranty, as the years pass, engines may be harder to come by if something does indeed go kaboom.

[ViperJon]

Tell you the truth if my car had say 10K+ miles on it or more and the motor blew I'd be A-OK with it. Brand new motor is basically a brand new car. I'm not under and delusions about Vipers and "numbers matching" cars 30 years from now. Who cares.

[swexlin]

Tell you the truth if my car had say 10K+ miles on it or more and the motor blew I'd be A-OK with it. Brand new motor is basically a brand new car. I'm not under and delusions about Vipers and "numbers matching" cars 30 years from now. Who cares.

I agree. I have 13,500 on my car now.

[dewilmoth]

Tell you the truth if my car had say 10K+ miles on it or more and the motor blew I'd be A-OK with it. Brand new motor is basically a brand new car. I'm not under and delusions about Vipers and "numbers matching" cars 30 years from now. Who cares.

Same, it’s basically an invitation for a 800hp motor. “But honey, I don’t have a choice, it has to be rebuilt!”

[commandomatt]

I would suspect they will be more agreeable when it comes to engine replacements at this time. If they in fact have a stash of engines and since production is over (so these engines are truly extras), it's a lot easier to say Yes and just send a new engine out. They don't need to warehouse a bunch of engines down the road since warranties will run out

[BlknBlu]

what happens to the old motors?

Bruce

[SilverACR]

That is what I was questioning
There are 2 ways they build rods. 1 machined surfaces and 2 cracked. The pictures show that they use the powdered metal rods then cracked which makes the rods unique to the caps like an LS. They machine the hole round then expand it.https://www.ms-motorservice.com/en/technipedia/post/cracked-connecting-rods/

[ForTehNguyen]

what happens to the old motors?

Bruce

maybe becomes a table or wine rack in someones house

[ViperSRT]

Most OEMs will send the engines to remanufacturers when they have adequate quantity available and expected demand. Not sure if that will apply to Viper engines given the small volume.

[SRT_BluByU]

[QUOTE=BlknBlu;368618]what happens to the old motors?

Bruce[/URS they don’t go to waste.. if they don’t remind them themselves they probably sell them off in lots to the high bidder of the remanf pool (jasper, etc).

[Jack B]

There are 2 ways they build rods. 1 machined surfaces and 2 cracked. The pictures show that they use the powdered metal rods then cracked which makes the rods unique to the caps like an LS. They machine the hole round then expand it.https://www.ms-motorservice.com/en/technipedia/post/cracked-connecting-rods/

Weren't the viper engines supposed to have forged internals, therefore, the rods also. This is the first time that I can remember that anyone has mentioned the rods were the powder metal technology, I did not think they they could "crack" a forged rod especially the better alloys.

[AZTVR]

Although unfortunate for the owner, this report seems to be good news. I was concerned that FCA would try to claim the previous owner did not do oil changes at the specified intervals or properly keep up with oil consumption. (However, if the service records do show oil changes at the prescribed intervals, then they would not be able to use that as an excuse for denying warranty.)

[SilverACR]

Weren't the viper engines supposed to have forged internals, therefore, the rods also. This is the first time that I can remember that anyone has mentioned the rods were the powder metal technology, I did not think they they could "crack" a forged rod especially the better alloys.

Not sure there bud, but those rods are cracked. We need a viper expert (like scott from prefix or Andy from VE) to chime in for sure. I some how recall most comments about forged pistons, but no one talking specifically about rods.

Edit: by the way... cracked rods when taken apart shouldn’t have shiny bumps like those from all I know (for what that’s worth). Conspiracy theory here maybe miss handling of rods causing Premature engine failures??? LOL makes you think right?

[RedViper]

on my viper and 4 other vipers oil pressure when cold at idle is at 85-92 when worm it goes down to 50 at idle

[SilverACR]

on my viper and 4 other vipers oil pressure when cold at idle is at 85-92 when worm it goes down to 50 at idle

My G4 is in that range as well.

[Jack B]

Not sure there bud, but those rods are cracked. We need a viper expert (like scott from prefix or Andy from VE) to chime in for sure. I some how recall most comments about forged pistons, but no one talking specifically about rods.

Edit: by the way... cracked rods when taken apart shouldn’t have shiny bumps like those from all I know (for what that’s worth). Conspiracy theory here maybe miss handling of rods causing Premature engine failures??? LOL makes you think right?

As far as performance cars, some of the LS1 engines had cracked rods.

[SilverACR]

As far as performance cars, some of the LS1 engines had cracked rods.

Heck the LT4 has powdered rods. I think most of not all modern LS/LTs are cracked powdered rods. They’re just fine for performance given GM puts factory boost on some of them.

[ViperSRT]

Most memories or cast iron vs forged steel vs powdered metal are no longer correct with today's technology and materials. The C70 of old, the old gold standard for forged steel rods is now out of date. There are forged powdered metal rods that outperform them in every way. Also the cracking process has been extended to include both PM and forged steel rods so the fact it is cracked does not indicate the base material or process.

[Jack B]

Most memories or cast iron vs forged steel vs powdered metal are no longer correct with today's technology and materials. The C70 of old, the old gold standard for forged steel rods is now out of date. There are forged powdered metal rods that outperform them in every way. Also the cracking process has been extended to include both PM and forged steel rods so the fact it is cracked does not indicate the base material or process.

There is still a lot of opposition to cracked rods at the high end, it would be interesting to get Prefixe's view. I think either VE or Woodhouse posted close up pics of the 9L rods, I do not? think they were the cracked design. I would think NthMoto would also have good input since they have some high hp cars.

[ViperSRT]

They might. But since it takes a lot of development to develop the cracking process for a given rod design I do not think you will see low volume designs going that route. But that is based on cost and not performance. Cracked rods assembled properly are superior in my experience.

[braunstein82]

Not gonna read all the replies. But my 2014 had first erratic pressure, it was the sensor. Then later on had it lose pressure when I floored it. That was because the oil level was low and was making the pick up. Why was it low, big surprise oil consumption issue. Had to get new motor.

[bluesrt]

New engines can use oil, if you dont keep it checked and filled,every quart you dont replenish,the next quart will go twice as fast, the 3rd quart,three times as fast as the first